Last Map Of The Retreat At Twin Lakes

Time to pull out the Etch-a-Sketch and try to pin down the spot where George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin.

As resources we have:

Google Maps and Zillow;

Zimmerman's call to 911 [transcript], in which he gives directions to his parked car;

The City of Sanford initial police report, which indicates the police found the body in the walkway between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle;

film footage the night of the crime and following day from Fox Orlando;

a neighborhood shot from the Tampa Bay Times;

and MapQuest, which locates a 7-Eleven at 1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford FL (GoogleMaps consistently overlooks this).  That is about 3/4 mile from the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and the logical approach would be by way of the main gate.

The gist - Trayvon Martin seemed to have been on a logical path home, which would have ended in the back yard of the home he was visiting after passing down an open walkway.  He was roughly a hundred yards from home when he was shot.

George Zimmerman parked near the intersection of a pedestrian walkway and Twin Trees Lane.  He was roughly thirty yards from his car when he fired the fatal shot.

Lets start with a map of the immediate area, with some cryptic notes attached:

The main gate is at the top, cleverly labeled "Main Gate".  Trayvon Martin would have come through that gate, past the clubhouse across on Twin Trees Lane.  His final destination was the home he was visiting on Retreat View Circle a couple of townhouses down from 2821 Retreat View Circle, marked in red.

The blue circle is the likely location of George Zimmerman's car.  Let's follow along on the 911 transcript as he describes his location to the police, with my notes embedded:

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left [onto Twin Trees Lane], and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.

The obvious cut through area is circled in blue.  By eerie coincidence, the Google Maps satellite picked up a truck parked there.

Now, from the cut through area, Martin had three logical paths home.  He could have continued down Twin Trees Lane, cut through further down, and gotten home.  Or, he could have taken the cut through halfway across, to the open commons area overlooked by townhouses on each side and gone down towards home (that is the highlighted blue path).  Or he could have taken the cut through all the way across and gone down Retreat View Circle, ending up at his front door. 

And keep in mind - although unpaved, there are passages between each townhouse that would allow a pedestrian to move from the commons area to either Twin Trees Lane or Retreat View Circle. Foreshadowing!

So what did Zimmerman see Martin doing?  After Martin reportedly [but no verbal contact on the 911 tape?] walked by to "check me out" we hear this:

Zimmerman... Shit he's running.

Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance...fucking [unintelligible]

Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok

Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name? Zimmerman: George...He ran.

You can trust me or look it up, but the back entrance is down near the home Martin was visiting.

If Martin disappeared I infer he did not run down Twin Trees Lane.  I conclude he headed along the cut through (left to right on the picture) and then... well, we don't know.

Zimmerman presumably followed along the cut through; given the location of the final confrontation, it seems likely he headed down along the blue line marking Trayvon's path through the commons area.

So how did they meet up again?  That would be a key question, and any answer would be speculative.  However, since Martin was ahead of Zimmerman and headed for home, it seems likely that Martin doubled back or hid somewhere (or Zimmerman outran him?  Really?)

One *POSSIBILITY* : Martin took the top cut through all the way to Retreat View Circle, then cut back into the commons area just below 2821 Retreat View Circle (marked in red).  A second *GUESS* is that Martin went down the commons area (along the blue line), cut left towards Retreat View Circle just below 2821 (effectively hiding from the view of anyone coming down the commons area), then doubled back.  Or, for our friends on the left, maybe he made it to the commons area before curling up in the fetal position in terror, awaiting execution by the scary man with a GUN.  Maybe.

Zimmerman must have made a bit of progress down the blue line if he had time to turn back towards his truck before Martin overtook him.  However, based on the map scale we are talking distances of 25-50 yards (a person walking a desultory 3 miles per hour covers about 30 88 yards per minute; adrenaline might add to that, but caution might subtract.)

Per the police report, the body was reported in the grass between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle.  A straight line between those two would have the body slightly down from where I located it with the red circle.  The difference is about 20 yards, but since my final spot is a bit closer to our guess for Zimmerman's SUV, it is arguably more favorable, so let me go through my arcane reasoning.

This background story on the Retreat at Twin Lakes from the Tampa Bay Times includes a photo which ought to be the commons area highlighted with the blue arrow from my map above:

Do note the left-to-right downhill grade and especially, the pooper-scooper doggie bag holder.

Now, here are some stills from the Fox Orlando footage.  I assert, using my imagination and keying off of the pooper scooper, that the Fox camera was located on Retreat View Circle at the red "Fox 35" label, looking along the red arrow towards the crime scene.  Here we go:

The pooper scooper is obvious, as is the sidewalk; that ought to be Twin Trees Lane in the background.  Another shot:

The back of the pooper scooper is visible; the sidewalk pattern near the street jibes nicely with the Fox35 location I marked.

Finally, the Fox report concludes with a chat with Trayvon's dad and his significant other; they take a quick walk down the commons area, turn, and look dramatically at... well, not much, but the situation strongly suggests it is where Martin was killed.

That is just down from the walkway.

That is plenty for now; even more can be gleaned from the Fox 35 video but it all leads to this location.

Eventually, I want to poke holes in the story told by George Zimmerman's father to Fox, as well as question the police version of events as recounted by Trayvon Martin's dad to the WaPo.

However, a perusal of the basic geography says two things: *IF* Zimmerman left his SUV as I have placed it, the idea that Zimmerman cornered Martin is hard to picture.  There are lots of open spaces, lots of ways from A to B, lots of places that are accessible by foot but not so much by car - running away with commitment and purpose should have been a fool-proof strategy.  If, that is, calling 911 or screaming for help was for some reason off the board.  The idea that Zimmerman overtook a scared kid in flight is hard to sustain.

That said, what if Zimmerman parked a bit down Twin Trees Lane towards the informal, unmarked cut through.  Now after he sees Martin run and gets out of his car, maybe he heads up the commons area while Martin was headed down it.  I score that as 'hmmm', because the police surely know where they recovered his car [LATE UPDATE: Zimmerman's wife collected the car and drove it home that night so the cops were left guessing].and the revised location doesn't jibe with the 911 call (he couldn't see the club house from down on Twin Trees, and the mailboxes he mentioned are central for the complex and near the clubhouse).  Still, cars can roll - we hope the police have thought this through.

LET ME ADD:  The elder Mr. Zimmerman describes Zimmerman's path as basically crossing the "T" - he purportedly entered the cut through near where I located the SUV, followed it from left to right to the Fox35 marking to confirm the street address, then doubled back, whereupon he met Martin.

As a plausibility check, Zimmerman claimed to be checking for an address.  It should be true that the townhouses to Zimmerman's left as he walked towards Retreat View Circle were unnumbered, since he was looking at the backs of the houses.  Heckuva job by the neighborhood patrol - did he really only learn that night that the cut through opened onto Retreat View Circle?

"He called the non-emergency number first, and they asked him where he was, because he was at the rear of the town houses and there was no street sign," said Robert

That is consistent with being on Twin Trees Lane, at the back of the townhouses that face Retreat View Circle.

"He lost sight of the individual, he continued to walk down the same sidewalk to the next street, so he could get an address for the police," he said.

"He went to the next street, realized where he was and was walking to his vehicle. It's my understanding, at that point, Trayvon Martin walked up to him and asked him, 'Do you have a [expletive] problem?' George said, 'No, I don't have a problem,' and started to reach for his cell phone...  at that point, he (Martin) was punching him in the nose, his nose was broken and he was knocked to the concrete."

HA! The Fox interviewer asks about two gunshots on the 911 tape; the father says that the police have confirmed that the first gunshot is a slamming door, and only one shot was fired.  His cheap shot - nobody heard two shots except the Martin family lawyers.  Uh huh, and the NY Times.  Well, nobody likes an I told you so, which is why nobody likes me.  Just like they told me they wouldn't.

THE OTHER FATHER:  Brevity another day; here is Trayvon Martin's father recreating the police version of Zimmerman's alibi told to him a few days after the killing.  Unless he had notes I wonder how much detail he was taking on, since he had to be shaken up.  Regardless, the police told a tale of two encounters:

According to Tracy Martin, the Sanford, Fla., detective recounted this sequence of events: Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window. Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle.

Surely that would be on the 911 tape where Zimmerman says Martin is "checking me out"?  But I don't hear it.  Mute button, bad audio, BS?  Why would Zimmerman make that up - he had to know he had been calling 911? Oh, well, head trauma, PTSD.  Or, why would the cops make that up - to get dad to back down?  How's that working?

Then came the second encounter, according to Tracy Martin’s recollection of the detective’s account. Trayvon Martin appeared from behind a building in Zimmerman’s gated community, approached him and demanded, “What’s your problem, homie?”

When Zimmerman replied that he didn’t have a problem, Martin said, “You do now.” The unarmed teenager hit Zimmerman, knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and told him to “shut the [expletive] up.”

During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin’s chest. “You got me,” the teenager said, falling backward.

"You got me"?  They lost me.  Save it for the screenplay.

 IF I WERE THE KING OF FLORIDA:  If I ruled Florida, I would say Ixnay on the pro-ImmermanZay leaks, and let's leak all the pro-Martin stuff.  That ought to quiet the mob and assure them that We Get It.  Well, as King, I Get It.

Later I would let the professionals do their job, which will probably include pulling the rug out from under the pro-Martin side.

For example, let's play along and pretend that we believe this mortician because we figure he is so honest and stupid that he would come out publicly in support of Zimmerman if that was where the chips fell.  Even so, his claim that he found no signs of a scuffle on Martin does not prove no scuffle occurred; it just proves Zimmerman didn't fight back effectively.  If there are other, more compelling witnesses maybe this guy could ice the cake; otherwise, he won't be nearly enough.  (And where is the medical examiner?  Surely the Sanford PD has a serious report - if it is consistent with this story, why hasn't it been leaked yet?)

 

Comments

[Gus]

Top o' the mornin' to ye all!! It's Wee Dublin Gus here!! I have a couple really close friends down at the Sanford Police Department and I know the whole scoop!!
Off to have some Lucky Charms!!! Slainte!

[Sylvia]

Clarice let's get to the part where the Duke team lied about who was at the house, putting Krystals ID at a big disadvantage. Nice boys don't lie.

[narciso]

Here we go,

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/30/New-Video-of-George-Zimmerman-Casts-Doubt-on-ABC-Report

[Stephanie]

Breitbart Lives!

[Rob Crawford]

Maybe nice boys don't lie, but Krystal does.

[Jane]

(he thought he was white)

Ahhh, Trayvon channeled Sylvia from the grave.

So obviously GZ thought he'd be the big guy and apprehend TM.

Yeah, nothing could be more obvious, you have to admit.

GZ shot him, probably for racial and revenge motives and a psychopathic bent

You can tell that from the video - it's as clear as day.

I told you Sylvia knows more than our host.

[Clarice]

If anyone knows psychopathic it's our own Sylvia.

[Sylvia]

Where is the evidence that TM has a violent past? Out of his infractions, none include violence. Which is unusal for a guy of his age and demographic. He was maybe a pot smoker, which is not a catalyst for violence.

But we know GZ has violence in his past. We know he was a cop wanna be. We heard him say, these fucking (c) or (g)oons ALWAYS get away. He followed him when any moron knows you don't do that. He was in a mindset that night to cause damage.

TM was on the phone with his gf chatting and trying to get home. He was yards form home, where his dad lives. He's all of a sudden going to tackle some guy he doesn't know, for no reason, and get in trouble with his dad? When he could just run. When he has no history of that kind of behavior.

Come on. Get real. Who was the one who was more likely to cause violence that night? GZ saw an opportunity and he ran after it. Literally. TM was just trying to get home.

The fact that you think otherwise shows the racial bias here and it's sad.

[Gus]

Steve, Sanford Florida D.A.s or Police dept. needs you!! They probably didn't notice that.

[Jane]

Have you always hated Latino's Sylvia?

[Jim Ryan]

Zimmerman's fatal mistake was color. He should have been Mexican with an accent, brown skin and black hair, or better yet, black. Then he wouldn't have had a few million people trying to figure a way to get him sent to prison.

[Clarice]

And, steve, take our psychic reader, Sylvia, with you when you go.

[Stephanie]

Where is the evidence that TM has a violent past?

Punching the bus driver maybe?

[Jim Ryan]

If Trayvan has a white grandparent, will GZ get a reduced sentence?

[jimmyk]

Just imagine, if black pols weren't enclaved and had to compete for votes more widely...

So shouldn't the election of El Jefe signify once and for all that blacks can be elected without having special districts specially designed for them? Wouldn't it be a bold stroke for The Won to declare that and put an end to this nonsense?

[Jim Ryan]

Detectors reading heavy sylvan boson field....Shields holding....

[Dave (in MA)]

We heard him say, these fucking (c) or (g)oons ALWAYS get away.

How do you lunatics get "(c) or (g)oons" from "assholes"? It takes a special kind of KraZy.
Sincerely,
cybot troll.

[fdcol63]

It's clear - to me, anyway - in the Breitbart videos that GZ is wearing a light colored bandage on his nose.

[Stig O' Tracey]

Punching the bus driver maybe?

He was a cruel man, but he was fair.

[Rob Crawford]

It's clear - to me, anyway - in the Breitbart videos that GZ is wearing a light colored bandage on his nose.

See how carefully he planned his alibi?!!1!

[Dave (in MA)]

Is sylvia working for NBC?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359

[Stephanie]

How do you lunatics get "(c) or (g)oons" from "assholes"?

When PT Barnum taught their sex ed classes?

[Sylvia]

Dave you got to get your news from other cources. Gz said f**king (c)(g)oons under his breath right when he was getting out of the car. He at some other point said this f**king assholes always get away.

I heard it on tv and it sounds like a C sound to me. And the OO is clear. The only thing, the sound at the end is not too clear. They have a better case with F** cold then f** goons. No not really, actually because there is a def "oo" sound.

[Enlightened]

Hey - don't look at me - Clarice said way back in the beginning of the thread not to feed "the" troll...my posts are merely me ruminating on the subject out loud.

;o]

[Sylvia]

Stephanie link your source because I saw a list of his school troubles and I did not see punching the bus driver.

[Sue]

And I took my own advice and avoided Clarice's pistolas. Please take note and follow suit.

[Gus]

I just contracted Eric Holder and the Sanford police dept, and FRED SANFORD *just in case* and they are now monitoring this site.
Holder told me that this site was a GOLD MINE of theories, and he wanted to THANK you all for helping solve this mystery.
George Zimmerman has gone back to his job as President of Men's Warehouse.
I GUARANTEE IT.

[Stephanie]

It's in his twitter stream.

who ever said it was school related? Anyways..

from his cousin:

"Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver," Martin's cousin wrote to him on Feb. 21.

[Enlightened]

Hmmm...Karen Finney works at MSNBC - close enough? Definitely psychotic enough...

[Ignatz]

I'm risking receiving a Strayvon from the old pistolas here but DD, Steve and especially Sylvia make for a pretty darned funny thread when one counts the responses especially that one by Wee Dublin Gus @ 4:34 at the top of the page.

[Sylvia]

They have info on GZ 2005 arrest now.

A cop tried to arrest his friend at a bar, and GZ started beating up the cop. When the cop said back off, GZ said F U. And kept tussling with the cop.

It was a felony charge reduced to a misdemeanor with pleading.

Yeah he sounds real normal.

[Gus]

Maybe they'll start selling BULLET PROOF hoodies.

I just had to get that idea published.

Now I own it.

[Clarice]

http://michaelmay.blogspot.com/2009/05/shoot-em-cowgirl.html&

Tengo un rancho grande ****pow! bam! ******

[Enlightened]

How do you lunatics get "(c) or (g)oons" from "assholes"?

Steph - I find this rather amusing. The derogatory term "coon" is from my parents generation....in my lifetime (55 yo) I have never heard one of my peers use that term - I would love for someone to post a young person of GZ's age using that term as an epithet. He did not say coon.

And South Park episode The Coon doesn't count.

[Gus]

Sylvia, I think THE MAN was hassling Jorge Zimmerejo at the CANTINA, because he was wearing a hoodie while LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeno.
Jorge was minding his own beeezness and having a CERVESA or TRES, when Long John Law came looking for GREEN CARDS.

VIVA LA RAZA SYLVIA!!!

[Sue]

The story about Nikki Hayley has been disproved. The IRS dropped their investigation of the Sikh Religious Society in fall of 2011. I bet Keith Olbermann was on top of this story. No?

[Clarice]

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=cowgirl&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1680&bih=814&tbm=isch&tbnid=C4KIHiPnnug_kM:&imgrefurl=
Let's try it again

[Clarice]

I give up.

*POW*

[Sylvia]

You're right Enlightened. It is not a word used now.

That's why I think GZ was involved in some militia group. He is using language from the past. Look at his "friends". Something odd about them. And they are so much older than he is. What do they have in common?? Hmm.

Maybe he tackled TM to get some glory with his friends. Just a thought.

[Clarice]

That's nice to know, Sue. I guess they will soon run out of slurs to use against her.

[Clarice]

I will say this about you know who---she brings out the very best in Gus.

[Gus]

George Zimmerman is Rush Limbaugh's accountant Sylvia. He also is the creater of DOS IF BY TEA.

[Clarice]

At last, I've got it:
http://michaelmay.us/09blog/05/0501_cowgirl.jpg

[Enlightened]

Ouch Clarice, that hurt...

[Rob Crawford]

It amazes me how desperate some people are to demonize Zimmerman. It's like they cannot consider him to have just been a regular guy in a bad situation -- no, he has to have been a demon, with a heart pumping liquid malice and breath tainted with elemental hate.

I have no problem considering Trayvon as a regular guy. Yeah, he wasn't a model kid -- but maybe what we're seeing was all show, or he'd have grown out of it. I consider him a Typical Teenage Boy who screwed up, who didn't think with his brain. It's unfortunate that his poor choices led to the end of his life.

[narciso]

The Haley story, came thirdhand Sue, from Will Folks's site, that slimy nazgul who alleged an affair, with no evidence.

[Porchlight]

Sue, just wait another 48 business hours and those charges against Haley will be filed.

Gus, where have you been all our lives? I wish you'd been hanging around JOM during the case involving those guys that play that sport at the one university.

[Gus]

Sylvia, I heard George Zimmerman was all HOPPPPED UP on PCP,PCB,PBS and PBR (that's Pabst Blue Ribbon). He actually didn't shoot SKITTLES, he just threw a bullet at him from close range.

It can happen. These kids and their drugs. We should out law it.

[Rob Crawford]

Look at his "friends". Something odd about them.

Yeah, that Joe Oliver strikes me as a white supremacist militia type.

You need counseling, Sylvia.

[Sue]

48 business hours? That's like an eternity, Porch.

[Rob Crawford]

from Will Folks's site, that slimy nazgul

You insult the nazgul.

[Cecil Turner]

Well, it appears our newcomer amateur conspiracy theorists are reeling in confusion and blanching in professional jealousy as Sylvia unleashes the full industrial-strength crazy.

It's sad, really. There's no fight left in you boys. You're nutless.

[Janet]

That is a perfect picture for you, Clarice!

[Sylvia]

Rob, a normal guy does not chase down a guy just walking down the street, with the words he used beforehand. Only a guy with problems does that. A normal guy does not beat up a cop.

As to Joe Oliver, I never said it was a WHITE milita group. It could be gun rights group. And you know today they try to act modern and let in some people of color to prove they are not racist.

Joe Oliver used to be a CNN worker. Odd that the guy in his neighborhood, just happened to used to be a media commentator. A guy who's 20 years older than him. He said he didn't know GZ that well, only saw him at gatherings and family gatherings. What kind of gatherings? Were they in a book club?

Where are the friends GZ's age speaking up for him?

[Dave (in MA)]

My cource was your 4:46, sweetie.

[Gus]

A NORMAL GUY doesn't TROLL using the name SYLVIA. Desperately seeking attention from strangers on the internet.

Is that you George??

[Rob Crawford]

Again, sylvia, you're disgusting.

I hope Zimmerman has a chance to sue you for the libel you're committing.

[Chubby]

((George Zimmerman is Rush Limbaugh's accountant Sylvia. ))

stop stop (not really) I'm laughing so hard it hurts

[Enlightened]

Hmmm...seems to me someone might sniffin Gawker dust....

[Sylvia]

What's digusting is a cop wanna be shooting an innocent 17 year old boy dead. But apparently that doesn't disgust you.

[Clarice]

Janet, thanks.

Gus, you have to understand every single white guy (including those new fangled "white Hispanics") is prima facie a psychopathic murdering, rapist. AND, to solve mysteries you start with the conclusions, and trim the facts to fit in Sylvia land..and when your "facts" are demonstrably false, voila--new ones just appear to carry the day.

[jimmyk]

This thread is starting to be like Groundhog Day, only with new characters each day.

[Gus]

Sylvia, you have convinced me. Right this very moment, the ONLY THING I AM WEARING, is a HOODIE. That's because I'm having Trayvon's name TATTOOED on my left butt cheek, and I'm eating SKITTLES.
My right butt cheek is still sore from having Viva Jorge TATTOOED there last week.
BIG MISTAKE. The VIVA PART really hurt. Something to do with Spanish language tattoos, where they have to spicy ink.

[Clarice]

ROFL, Gus. Really.

[Jane]

48 business hours? That's like an eternity, Porch.

LOLOLOLOLOL! Very good.

[Dave (in MA)]

Rare sane MA Democrat legislator sponsors Stand Your Ground bill for 5th consecutive year; gun-control advocate uses racist premise to oppose; Axelrod protege Gov. says he'll veto.

http://www.wbur.org/2012/03/29/mass-stand-your-ground

[Jane]

Today Mr Left (in Florida) told me Zimmerman was hispanic. He said the newspapers told him that. (I didn't have the heart to tell him we've known that for 3 days.)

When I mentioned that Sharpton has vowed to escalate if there is not an arrest and the WH never lets a crisis go to waste, he hung up on me.

C'est la vie.

[Sylvia]

Clarice haven't been proven wrong on any fact yet.

And you seem to believe any story that makes a white person and or Repub look good and back person and or a Lib look bad. You don't seem concerened with the facts at all.

[Clarice]

Sorry, about that, Jane. A lot of people still believe the press.

[Gus]

Sylvia. Please let me help you with FACTS.

You are a guy.
You are lonely.
We are laughing at you.

[Clarice]

No one has ever proven Sylva wrong in her mind, nevertheless Nifong's in jail right now and the Lacrosse players cleaned up in their civil suits, the criminal cases having been dropped as soon as someone sane tok a look at the "evidence".

[pagar]

"The Haley story, came thirdhand Sue, from Will Folks's site,"

The American Thinker link I posted was written by Rick Moran and has no updates or comments saying it is incorrect.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/03/gov_nikki_haley_to_be_indicted_for_tax_fraud.html

Does anyone have any link saying the story is wrong?
-----------------------------------------

Sue I wanted to thank you for the Current TW info. Unless Tiger is playing good on the late Sunday golf, I never watch TV.

[Sylvia]

No Tom, you are a guy and a lonely guy. So lonely that you have to create dozens of fictional characters to hide behind to pick on people because you are too much of a coward to use your read identity. And to help support yourself because you can't get a real job. I am laughing at you.

[Clarice]

We confess, we are ALL Thomas Maguire.

[Gus]

Sylvia, you are laughing because you are nuttier than a fruit cake or because you are HUFFING....LEMON PLEDGE.

[Gus]

Not me. I'm Trayvon Maguire III.
But you can call me THURSTON.

[Sylvia]

Clarice was that LAX lawsuit settled before or after that the Lacrosse team, as a group, lied about who attended the party that night?

[Sylvia]

Sorry, settled before or after that IT WAS REVEALED the Lacrosse team, as a group, lied about who attended the party that night?

[narciso]

I go the extra length, pagar, if you look here, which is the original source, in the LUN, which in turn is based on lawsuits, which
are linked to Will Folks site

[Sylvia]

Anyway looks like Tom is out and about and feeling cranky so I better skidaddle until he collects himself.

[Gus]

Sylvia!! (weird name for a dude). I have some good news!!!!

Hillary Rodham just weighed in on the Trayvon case. She said if she and Bill Clinton had a son, it would look like JANET RENO.

[narciso]

Professor Jacobsen, does provide the proper perspective, that Moran didn't bother with,
and Kilgore really has become a shill;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/03/the-perfect-palin-breitbart-conspiracy-world-theory/

[centralcal]

lol, Gus!!

[Rob Crawford]

She said if she and Bill Clinton had a son, it would look like JANET RENO.

Wait, I thought they did, and he did...

[Rob Crawford]

Gus -- next time, make sure to say the tattoo is in European Spanish, not New World Spanish. That way they'll use olive oil instead of the peppers.

[Gus]

Rob, I tried Olive Oil, and Popeye punched me!!

[fdcol63]

Think about those Thai tattoos! LOL

[Gus]

Olbermann out at CURRENT TV. signs on with THE SYLVIA CHANNEL.

[Ignatz]

Looks like Hit is off the hook and Sylvia can start stalking Gus now.

[narciso]

Speaking of which, can someone keep her away from the Intertubes, she does have the Sean Young vibe;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/03/30/Naomi-Wolf-Katy-Perry

[Gus]

Narciso. Now THAT is funny. I think Sylvia looks more like Keith Olberman than Sean Young.

[Jane]

Brewer is my senator Dave.

[narciso]

This was the best of the crazy, although Arianna shouldn't encourage her so much;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/the-battle-plan-ii-sarah_b_128393.html

[pagar]

Narcisco, Legal Ins article was good.
The Daily Caller has a better (IMO) comment from Haley and her people.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/30/nikki-haley-says-shes-victim-of-dirty-blogger-politics-again/

[Porchlight]

48 business hours? That's like an eternity, Porch.

LOLOLOLOLOL! Very good.

Hahahaha, Sue! Sorry I just got back to the thread...lol

[Porchlight]

Gus deserves a medal. Gus, did Captain Hate bring you over to JOM? He deserves one, too.

[pagar]

Look at this-sanity among the Democrats, hard to believe.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/obama-democrats-lay-low-as-martin-story-shifts/

[scott]

beep, beep.....beep, beep....new eyewitness just in;

TM: Hey, White boy! What ya doin' uptown?

GZ: Awww, I'm just waitin' on my man. Now work it.

Pow!! Zam!!

Jeez louise, If this thread jumped me, I would definitely pull my pistol!

[Jim Ryan]

the ONLY THING I AM WEARING, is a HOODIE.

Thanks, Gus. Thanks a lot. You've put me right off my pie.

[bunkerbuster]

If nothing else, this case shows exactly how stupid the right's "an armed society is a polite society'' is.
Gun rights absolutists and non-racist conservatives have a lot to lose politically on this case, especially if Zimmerman never has to answer for what happened and, most likely, even if he is exonerated.
No matter what happened on that day, we can be virtually certain Martin and Zimmerman would both be alive had Zimmerman not had not been carrying a loaded firearm.
If Zimmerman gets off without even having to explain himself under oath, the precedent this case set is a nightmare for law enforcement, gun rights and, of course, the public.
Giving armed neighborhood watchers a license to kill by putting the burden of proof on the state to show beyond reasonable doubt that the victim posed no threat could well be the opening chapter to rapid surge in shooting deaths and, eventually, a widespread clampdown on gun ownership.
Or suppose the evidence that could exonerate Zimmerman never shows up (hair and blood on the sidewalk, a witness who saw Martin attack, etc.) and evidence condemning him does (a witness who saw the shooting, a plausible audio expert saying he said "coons" on the tape, a gun struggle claim with no Trayvon prints on the gun, etc). Zimmerman's up for murder then and, while there will be a lot of wingnuts taking up his cause Mumia-style, it will quickly fade from mainstream attention and with the political pressure to limit gun ownership or take away the license to kill ebbs with it.
And I wonder why Zimmerman's cheering section isn't outraged that police didn't perform a fuller investigation. This idea that the prosecutor was fine to reject the case because -- well, just because -- is without substance. If Zimmerman is innocent -- and JOMers say they're certain he is -- a full investigation would have turned up exculpatory evidence fully sufficient to put this case to rest before it ever started...