Poll Dancing And Spinning

Bloomberg News leads on their new opinion survey, which highlights their innovative "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" polling technique:

Americans overwhelmingly regard the debate over President Barack Obama’s policy on employer-provided contraceptive coverage as a matter of women’s health, not religious freedom, rejecting Republicans’ rationale for opposing the rule. More than three-quarters say the topic shouldn’t even be a part of the U.S. political debate.

Let's take that one claim at a time.  On the question of whether this is a matter of women's rights or religious freedom, Bloomberg polled the following:

There has been recent controversy over whether education and health care facilities affiliated with religious organizations, such as the Catholic Church, should provide access to birth control through health insurance plans. Which of the following describes your view on this debate: (Read two options. Rotate.

33% - This is a matter of religious liberty
62% - This is a matter of a woman’s health and access to birth control
5% - Not sure

That is somewhat similar to the recent NY Times result, which found that 51% see this as a debate on womens's rights and 37% view this as a matter of religious freedom.  However, unlike Bloomberg the Times also asked about the topic in the news; despite the preference for the "women's rights" framing, 57% thought that religiously-affiliated institutions ought to be allowed an opt-out, versus 36% who thought they should cover regardless.  One might infer that a subset of respondents believes that this issue is mostly a matter of women's rights but religious freedom can still be respected and protected.

As to what Bloomberg would have found if they had asked that question, who can tell?  They had a wider margin preferring the "women's rights" frame, so maybe they would not have found a clear majority favoring a religiously affiliated opt-out.  Maybe.  Their "Don't Ask" polling technique leaves us in the dark.

Their second claim, "More than three-quarters say the topic shouldn’t even be a part of the U.S. political debate", is utterly opaque.  From the poll:

Do you believe birth control should or should not be part of the national political debate?

20% - Should
77% - Should not

So now we know.  As to just what we know, I have no idea.  Birth control was not part of the national debate until Obama announced his surprisingly restrictive ObamaCare rules in late January.  As to whether we should be debating it now, do the Bloomberg pollsters really think (or expect us to believe) that 77% of Americans believe that anything Obama announces should be accepted without question?   That doesn't quite square with his approval rating, which is somewhere near 50%.

I am confident that many people opposed to Team Obama's new rules on contraception coverage would rather be talking about jobs, jobs, jobs and real plans to spur the recovery.  There may be many who think that we had a workable religious exception at the Federal level until 2009 and there is no need to be debating a change in that now.

The workings of ObamaCare have foisted this debate on us, so here we are.  And until the Bloomberg pollsters work up the nerve to poll the obvious question at hand it is hard to take their results seriously.

As a clue, here is the current Times formulation:

Do you think health insurance plans for all employees should have to cover the full cost of birth control for their female employees, or should employers be allowed to opt out of covering that based on religious or moral objections?

For "all employers", 40% of respondents said "cover" while 51% said "opt-out". For religiously-affiliated employers, as noted above, the breakdown was 36%-57%.

MEANWHILE, IN ALAN COLMES LA-LA LAND: The Colmes cocooners go home to fantasy land with this headline:

77% Reject Republican Arguments On Birth Control

Improved reading comprehension and critical thinking may one day lead these reality free-basers back to reality.

Comments

[Appalled]

The framing issues, IMHO, were caused by Santorum's approach to the issue on the campaign trail, and the Senate GOP's decision to craft a broad statut allowing any employer (not just religiously affiliated ones) to opt out of contraceptive coverage.

If you want the debate to be about religious liberty, stick to talking about religious liberty.

[NK]

Bloomberg News opinion survey??... ha...ha ha ha.... hah-HAH-HAH-HAH...ahhh...OK

[Danube of Thought]

The Bloomberg approach is borderline pernicious.

[Ignatz]

--If you want the debate to be about religious liberty, stick to talking about religious liberty.--

I can't keep track of what it's supposed to be about.
One minute its the 1st amendment issue, the next it's religious liberty in toto and the next economic liberty.

[jimmyk]

Appalled, I don't understand your comment, but as I said on the Flukey thread, I don't want the debate to be (just) about religious liberty. Employers should be able to offer any damn insurance they want to, or none at all.

[BB Key]

TM: Headline writer extraordinaire

[Ignatz]

--Which of the following describes your view on this debate: (Read two options. Rotate.--

?
Is "Read two options" Bloomberg speak for "sit on it"?

[Porchlight]

I think it's about many things and I agree with jimmyk. But the religious liberty element is incredibly important and not accidental in the least on the part of the administration.

[Danube of Thought]

"If you want the debate to be about religious liberty, stick to talking about religious liberty."

And if you want it to be about whether the federal authorities should be dictating what every insurance policy must cover, you're apparently in the wrong country.

Ditto if you want it to be about whether covering a "risk" that is 100% certain to be realized is "insurance."

It's too late.

[daddy]

I see Blago is going to Jail tomorrow.

Anyone know if the other Illinois Governors already in Jail plan to hold a welcome party for him in the slammer?

And further proof that John Edward's is a sick, sick, critter.

[Danube of Thought]

Much as I dislike Santorum, I think Fluke and Limbaugh had far more to do with framing the issue than he did.

[Appalled]

DoT:

I think it increased the shelf life of this argument, but the frame was already in place before Limbaugh mispoke his way into it...

[NotSara]

DoT, I agree. It's too late. Sigh.

[Ben Franklin]

Wisconsin 50th in job growth. But they've got this going for them.

henry?

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120314/GPG0101/120314016/Wisconsin-Legislature-abortion-sex-education-abstinence-bills-approved?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CGPG-News

://www.wawmea.org/NewsletterFiles/11_12/January12.pdf

Since the beginning of the fiscal year in July, Wisconsin ranks 50th - dead last - among the states in job performance, losing 27,600 jobs. If Wisconsin had simply matched the national rate of job creation since April, nearly 34,000 more families would have someone in the family with a full-time job.
Wisconsin lags behind the national economy because their “cuts only” approach drastically reduced consumer spend- ing, a major roadblock on the path to economic recovery. Their big cuts in state and local government programs and in workers’ take-home pay are bad choices in a difficult economy. In tough times, the worst thing a governor can do is further shrink the economy.
One only has to compare Wisconsin with what is happening in Illinois to see the different approaches. Going into this year, both states faced serious revenue shortfalls. But their governors chose opposite strategies.

[Ben Franklin]

Wisconsin; The petri dish for 'austerity only' fiscal policy.

[Gus]

I sell products. Everyday. I sell sell sell sell. Henry even knows where I work!! Oh I sell and sell and sell and sell. And when I'm done?? I sell some more.
Big Ears Obama cannot give my products to anyone for FREE. He isn't our DICTATOR...yet.
Whether my product is COTTON BALLS or BANANA FLAVORED EXTRA LARGE TROJENZ RUBBERS, my product does not belong to the U.S.GOVT. or any of those WOMEN battling the evil Republicans in the WAR. If Obama can give my product to his hand picked VICTIM group, then he can also require Danube to defend his actions in court.
PRO BONO!!

[Porchlight]

Bingo, Gus. It is simply flabbergasting that Obama can decree that companies must give away their products and the country isn't up in arms (with Clarice's pikes and pitchforks).

[NotSara]

Well, face it, Porch. Americans, as a whole, LIKE free stuff!

[DrJ]

I see nothing that shows that Obama does not want the companies to be paid for their products. It simply is buried into a consumer's "insurance" policy, akin to including oil changes into your automobile insurance. Hello health plan, good bye major medical.

OT, but hit's Goldman Sachs obamanation got another display at Instapundit.

[AliceH]

BF - Checking out your WI info and it seems there is less than meets the eye. 1) you cite a January report. 2) the numbers behind that report have been revised UPWARD for Wisconsin, i.e. they "lost" fewer jobs than reported and 3) (from yesterday) "According to the latest numbers, Wisconsin employed in the private sector an estimated 15,700 people more than it had the previous month. Unemployment has dropped to 6.9 percent, the lowest since December 2008."

I'm remain confident that the "petri dish" in WI will yield a stronger economy, lower unemployment, and - as it has already done a stable budget.

Oh - shame about the thousands of mining jobs the Dems/Liberals killed. Even the Unions were out in force supporting that bill. Ah, well. Priorities.

[Porchlight]

Sorry, you are correct, DrJ. The insurance companies must give them away. That means either the insurance companies eat the cost or the cost is passed on to customers in another way.

[Frau Roggenbrot]

Sheesh, It's bad enough the entire country is in the clutches of the Chicago Mobocracy. Soon we'll all be "Suckers" (Illinoisans).

[Mad Jack]

Wasn't it cute little George Stepy who was the Judas Goat for the administration roll out on this issue in the guise of a NH debate question seemingly out of left field to the GOP?

[Gus]

Porchlight. I give away free hand towels to my patrons. I mean after they use my rest room and toilet paper and then wash their hands, I give them free paper towels to dry those hands.
Guess who pays for the toilet paper and paper towels.
Libs want something to be given away for FREE.
They should read Milton Friedman.

[centralcal]

Golly poll dancing and spinning! How about dictator ass kicking? Looks like Mr. & Mrs. Assad did a little shopping recently. This is one of Mrs. A's purchases:

Ouch.

[Sara]

Santorum to Puerto Rico: Speak English if you want statehood

[AliceH]

I'm hoping someone can confirm what I am only assuming about poll samples.

When I read "...conducted (some date range) among 1,503 adults..." ... is it reasonable to assume that OF COURSE the poll was of 1,503 adults, and not actually 2,000 adults, from which some magic-box algorithm was put to work extracting the "right" 1,503 answer-ers?

Who and what audits the baseline integrity of the pollsters?

I get it that reputation for accuracy is critical, and it's in the interest of the pollsters blah blah - just wondering about any formal review.

[Sara]

Barack Obama met with the Queen of England.

He asked her, "Your Majesty, how do you run such an efficient government? Are there any tips you can give me?"

"Well," said the Queen, "the most important thing is to surround yourself with intelligent people."

Obama frowned, and then asked, "But how do I know the people around are really intelligent?"

The Queen took a sip of tea. "Oh, that's easy; you just ask them to answer an intelligent riddle."

The Queen pushed a button on her intercom. "Please send Tony Blair in here, would you?"

Tony Blair walked into the room and said, "Yes, Your Majesty?"

The Queen smiled and said, "Answer me this please, Tony, your mother and father have a child. It is not your brother and it is not your sister.

Who is it?"

Without pausing for a moment, Tony Blair answered, "That would be me."

"Yes! Very good," said the Queen.

Obama went back home to ask Joe Biden the same question. "Joe, answer this for me. Your mother and your father have a child. It's not your brother and it's not your sister. Who is it?"

"I'm not sure," said Biden. "Let me get back to you on that one." He went to his advisers and asked everyone, but none could give him an answer.

Finally, Biden ran in to Sarah Palin out eating one night. Biden asked, "Sarah, can you answer this for me? Your mother and father have a child and it's not your brother or your sister. Who is it?"

Sarah Palin answered right back, "That's easy, it's me!"

Biden smiled, and said, "Thanks!" Then, he went back to speak with Obama. "Say, I did some research and I have the answer to that riddle. It's Sarah Palin!"

Obama got up, stomped over to Biden, and angrily yelled into his face, "No! You idiot! It's Tony Blair!"

AND THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE WHITE HOUSE

(Via Facebook)

[Frau Roggenbrot]

Cleo will not recognize any truth but his own, AliceH. The lathe of heaven awaits him.

[MaryD]

Sara, I loved that!

[Ben Franklin]

You haven't been here long enough to call me 'cleo', Frau Putsch.

[Ben Franklin]

AliceH;

What is Wisconsin's place with the revised numbers?

And how about that crackerjack 'abstinence only' bill?

[rse]

That was good sara.

sbw-your comment over the weekend had me mulling. One of the last places a small business owner should be looking for overbearing regulation would be tucked into education. Nevertheless it is there. So enjoy walks and your family and get away. But there are shocking burdens being put in place. A small business is just lethal to the emphasis on the collective as an individual believing in a sphere of personal autonomy.

[pagar]

"Oh - shame about the thousands of mining jobs the Dems/Liberals killed."

AliceH, There is no way the Dems/Liberals/leftists can achieve their dreams of turn the US in to a Cuba/Venezuela hellhole while allowing private industry jobs in the US, IMO.

Here are some Democrats schemes now.

"The state of Illinois is facing an unfunded pension liability of more than 77 billion dollars. Considering the fact that the state of Illinois is flat broke and on the verge of default, it is inevitable that a lot of those pension obligations will never be paid."

"In California, the Orange County Employees Retirement System is estimated to have a 10 billion dollar unfunded pension liability."

"government bodies in the state of California have $325 billionin combined unfunded pension liabilities."

"That comes to about $22,000 for every single working adult in the state of California."

LUN

What ever hope anyone in America had/has, the Democrats/Liberals/Leftists intend to
kill it.

[Gus]

Cleo is a moron. I don't read his tripe. If I want to see a clown, I'll watch MSNBC.

[Ben Franklin]

Gus; Supervisor of Sales Prevention Dept. lol.

[boris]

Semantic1eo; Sh!t for brains.

Still have to use a 1 for the letter l because Semantic1eo is still an unwelcome trespassing troll.

[rse]

kim-if you're around, LUN shows one of the benefits of a state monopoly over the classroom is not having to take reality into account. As long as teaching climate change benefits the politically connected, temperatures don't matter.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

They pretend to poll us, we pretend to answer.

Ummm...on second thought, let me work on it. I'll get to you.

[Frau Roggenbrot]

I've been here for such a long time - long enough to smell Cleo no matter the name. Unfortunately, on certain days, the smell of the local dairies and the stench from Cleo reach my home.

Watch out AliceH. Cleo will delight in flinging carp all over you. He especially hates conservative women. You betcha!

[AliceH]

WI ranks #18 lowest unemployment rate per BLS report released yesterday.

Lack of interest prevents me from responding to your other topic.

[Gus]

Boris. Cleo is mentally ill. It's really that simple. Most committed LIBTARDS are mentally or emotionally disturbed misfits. He knows he's not well. He has a compulsion, and cannot stop posting here.

[Sara]

Oy, just heard Roger Hedgecock on San Diego radio say that San Diego is the next Wisconsin. Apparently there is a huge union battle in the works.

[Ben Franklin]

'A long time' is what, in years, Frau Visigoth?

[Rick Ballard]

"Who and what audits the baseline integrity of the pollsters? "

The entity responsible for paying for the product bears the responsibility for determining its value. Is there any reason to believe that Bloomberg or any other MFM outlet is dissatisfied with the propaganda value of the product which they have purchased?

Rasmussen and Gallup have both indicated that their business will suffer if too much accurate information is fully disclosed. Gallup moved its top line to a sidebar for a reason and Rasmussen buried his partisan trend info behind his pay wall for the same reason.

IMO - the MFM is coming to the very sad realization that they just aren't going to see a level of expenditure upon political advertising that will justify their continued miserable existence and the farther BOzo falls behind the less likely it is that the weaker among them will not be exploring the ramifications of the US Bankruptcy Code.

[AliceH]

Appreciate the cautions - I'm only responding for the practice. If I get too annoying to JOMmers, let me know and I'll wield my narcisolator to eliminate the risk of my being further provoked.

[Ben Franklin]

AliceH;

No problema. You are pre-narcissylated.

[Gus]

Sara, 55cents of every tax dollar in San Diego, goes to RETIREES.

[Frau Roggenbrot]

rse - the CRT behind Arne Duncan's released report on "discipline injustice" in America was very obvious. In fact, it made me post from Billy the Bomber Ayers' blog (2008) earlier on this thread, I believe, earlier today. Linda Darling-Hammond is be smiling.

[Gmax]

AliceH polling integrity starts with fully disclosure of the poll internals. If you do that, its pretty damn easy to see the ridiculous polls, ie Ipsos. Any polls that shows D + anything is absolute BS right now. D +11 is actually a very large joke, and should elicit much mirth and merryment at their expense.

[Clarice]

rse, i remember YEARS ago Marian Wright Edelman made much of the discipline disparity.

[Clarice]

P.S. All of her children went to private schools in D.C. and she reportedly counseled the Clintons (and perhaps the Obamas) to send their children to a private school--Sidwell Friends.

[Extraneus]

Obama's Fix For Gas Prices: "Set Up A Task Force To Look Into Speculation"

Speculation about how to spin the Gulf permit and other drilling refusals and slow-walks, no doubt.

[Ben Franklin]

boris;

Waiting for your response to the intelligent Gus amongst us.

Anyone else qualify for the coveted 'shit for brains' award?

Don't leave now. Please come back.

[Strawman Cometh]

I stumbled across this movie synopsis:

With the uterus once again firmly implanted at the top of the news cycle, Rachael Harris’s powerful new movie Natural Selection might just get lucky. Harris plays Linda, a woman living in an insular Evangelical community in Texas. She and her husband Abe (played by Jon Diehl) can’t have children, so, according to their church, they can’t have sex.

Hilarious hijinks ensue, no doubt. Any of our resident theologists aware of any Christian sect that would foreswear a barren married couple from copulating? I'm guessing this notion sprang whole from the fevered mind of some Bill Maher type, but I do not want to assume.

[rse]

frau-I have been looking into the next stage after crt. Not only do I have it now documented but I got my insights from a book by a well-known Harvard prof whose book had been removed from the library there. I had joked that maybe his not well-recognized point was why it needed to be off the shelf in the 21st century.

I was joking kinda but I have now tracked the names behind the theories being enacted. Every time it was to a named chair there and each one's fundamental specialty with different applications went back to that key unappreciated aspect.

[Ben Franklin]

Ex;

I think you are using me for practice, as well. Narcissylated !

[Frau Roggenbrot]

"Darling-Hammond is be smiling."
I be promising to preview better.

Clarice, in the olden days, the concern was that *all males* were silenced, disciplined too quickly and more harshly than females. That was before identity politics took over the curricula.

[rse]

clarice-

peter comes up quite a bit as well. What a twosome.

[centralcal]

Ed Henry ‏ @edhenryTV
Sen. Orrin Hatch to retire -- in 2018 ... basically saying re-elect me please, then I'll retire ...

[Extraneus]

The narcisolator only works if the poster is courteous enough to keep using the same handle, Alice. Ben has shown us this courtesy, and I have discontinued the use of the narcisolator to honor that. IOW, ixnay the ets-thray.

[AliceH]

Thanks, Rick B - that was very helpful.

Thanks, GMAX - my question was actually about the integrity of the internals themselves -- are they reliable?, not the subsequent analysis of 'meaning' from it. Once they lay out the the basis, though, I'm with you -- much merriment.

[Ben Franklin]

" ixnay the ets-thray."

Beat you to it. :>)

[Sara]

Any of our resident theologists aware of any Christian sect that would foreswear a barren married couple from copulating?

Didn't Ricky tell us that sex was for procreation only?

[Gmax]

You are asking if you should leave your purse in the open with a bunch of thieves present in the bar while you head to the powder room. No. Trust but verified as a great American once said.

There are lots of ways to cook the books on a poll without tossing responses. Go to an Adult poll, which is the functional equivalent of a Jay Leno "Jay Walking" segment, or ask the question in a way that solicits the desired response.

And if all of that fails, load the poll up with Democrats, and if you are the NYT/CBS reweight even that stilted result with a factor that magnifies Democrats and minimizes Republicans.

[narciso]

Ok, the poll considered 1005 adults, with only a 4 point Democrat advantage, but the question is squirrelly, to use a technical description,

[Ignatz]

--Didn't Ricky tell us that sex was for procreation only?--

No,and I would expect you to be more reluctant to mischaracterize other people's religious views based on your previous complaints about mischacterizations of Romney's.

[jimmyk]

Didn't Ricky tell us that sex was for procreation only?

No.

[Frau Roggenbrot]

If he did, Sara, Pope Benedict XVI should have a word with him.

[Ben Franklin]

"'A long time' is what, in years, Frau Visigoth?"

[centralcal]

Yep, and she can call him Ricky, but if we call Willard, Willard, it is sooooooooo offensive.

[Danube of Thought]

That exchange about Wisconsin job growth was quite devastating.

[Frau Roggenbrot]

hwa sa swa rōdeiþ náiteinins? hwas mag aflētan frawaúrhtins, niba áins guþ?

[Gmax]

Frau is that German for "KMA featherman"?

[Ben Franklin]

DoT; I was trying to be polite, but AliceH has used up all her chits.

http://radiofreeliberal.com/viewtopic.php?p=72529

Newly revised jobs figures released Tuesday show Wisconsin with the biggest decline in total jobs in the US over the past 12 months.

Wisconsin released its new job numbers last week. They showed sizable job gains in January. But they also showed 2011 was a significantly worse year for jobs in Wisconsin than previously thought.

The government released similar revised data for all 50 states on Tuesday. They show that Wisconsin’s 12-month decline in total non-farm jobs (public and private combined) of 12,500 was the worst in the US.

[ME]

No, Sara, and a Romney supporter should really be more cautious about that sort of thing: Know-Nothing-ism won't help a Mormon candidate. If you are interested in the actual teaching, you can read Humanae Vitae at the LUN. Paragraphs 17-18 are quite prophetic, I think.

[narciso]

Diehl usually doesn't play sympathetic leads,

[Threadkiller]

The Fuck-it list:

http://americankabuki.blogspot.com/p/131-resignations-from-world-banks.html?m=1

[Chubby]

((Any of our resident theologists aware of any Christian sect that would foreswear a barren married couple from copulating? I'm guessing this notion sprang whole from the fevered mind of some Bill Maher type, but I do not want to assume))

I'm glad that Abraham of old and his wife Sarah didn't belong to that "Christian" cult because if they had, Isaac would never have been born to them in their old age which really started the unfoldment of Judeo- Christianity, and without Judeo-Christianity there would never have been a U.S.A.

[Clarice]

BF's bitching about Wis employment figures? After the Dem tantrums o last year, the figures are considerably up--local budgets went from red to black and teachers are getting the same medical coverage for less now that the union beak is no longer in the pot.Worth comparing with California's figures.

[Boatbuilder]

So Ben is a Rick Perry guy. Who would ever have guessed?

[Frau Roggenbrot]

No, Gmax. I cannot use such expressions even if I wanted to. It's a(nother) flaw of mine. Until the thought police appear, I'm safe, however.

[Ben Franklin]

" without Judeo-Christianity there would never have been a U.S.A."

well, if Abraham had absolute faith in God, he wouldn't have impregnated Hagar, and then we wouldn't have the blessings of Islam, today.

[Threadkiller]

" There was a time when someone could perhaps justify sitting on the fence on the matter of Barack Obama's birth certificate. There were those on the left who could chalk doubts about its authenticity up to conspiratorial internet paranoia. As for the right, there was every reason to worry about being the victims of an Alinsky-style setup designed to marginalize opponents. In other words, let the other side double down on an incredible claim, and then, at the most opportune time (October surprise?), provide irrefutable evidence to the contrary and make them look like deluded wackos. So, for a long time, there might have been reason to watch,wait, and let the wheels of investigation render their judgment.

That judgment is in, and the time for waiting is over.

With the results of Maricopa County, AZ sheriff Joe Arpaio's "Cold Case Posse," an incredible claim has become an incredible situation: a team of professional investigators, commissioned by a major law-enforcement agency, has determined that the alleged birth certificate produced by the president of the United States is a probable forgery.

Process that for a moment. The regime of the world's most powerful nation --a republic that prides itself on adherence to the rule of law -- is likely peddling a forged document. What say you, citizen?

Note that I didn't claim that the president isn't natural-born. Rather, I claim nothing but am only stating a fact: there is now no denying that the birth-certificate matter warrants further investigation, and it is time for other law-enforcement agencies and the media to show due diligence. And I will spell out the possibilities here:

1. The Arizona investigators are correct.
2. They are mistaken.
3. They are lying..."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/m-why_obamas_birth_certificate_matters_especially_now.html

[centralcal]

Tonight is the State Dinner for the Camerons. I look forward to reading MOTUS tomorrow. Meanwhile, this snort worthy bit from CBS:

Mark Knoller ‏ @markknoller
Fashion comment from Pres Obama: "They look better than us," he was heard to say to Mrs Obama as the Camerons arrived.

[Threadkiller]

Walker doesn't "inherit" economies the same way Obama does, Clarice.

[Clarice]

Face palm, of course TK, what was I thinking?

[centralcal]

Golly, Clarice, I am disappointed that you didn't mention the picture I posted above of the new Louboutin's that Mrs. Assad of Syria purchased on-line recently.

They are really butt-kickers deluxe. I think all conservative political women who can still wear stilettos should have a pair - especially wearing them if they have to do media interviews.

[narciso]

Remember this silly person, who had an accoutrement malfunction that came up around the time of the election,

https://twitter.com/#!/KrystalBall1

[Sara]

Sorry people, this reads that way to me:

"One of the things I will talk about that no president has talked about before is I think the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual libertine idea ... Many in the Christian faith have said, "Well, that's okay ... contraception's okay."

It's not okay because it's a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. They're supposed to be within marriage, for purposes that are, yes, conjugal ... but also procreative. That's the perfect way that a sexual union should happen. We take any part of that out, we diminish the act. And if you can take one part out that's not for purposes of procreation, that's not one of the reasons, then you diminish this very special bond between men and women, so why can't you take other parts of that out? And all of a sudden, it becomes deconstructed to the point where it's simply pleasure. And that's certainly a part of it—and it's an important part of it, don't get me wrong—but there's a lot of things we do for pleasure, and this is special, and it needs to be seen as special.

Again, I know most presidents don't talk about those things, and maybe people don't want us to talk about those things, but I think it's important that you are who you are. I'm not running for preacher. I'm not running for pastor, but these are important public policy issues."

I read that to say if you take out the procreation and leave only the pleasure, it is wrong and no longer special.

What does Mormon have to do with anything? I asked a question. Is that a threat ME. Be more careful about what? Asking a legitimate question?

And Ignatz, I'm not interested in mischaracterizing anyone's religious views, nor the teachings of their chosen church. Santorum said what he said. I have no idea if this comports with the views of the Catholic church or not, but that isn't what the question was about, it was about what Santorum said.

[Ben Franklin]

'Walker doesn't "inherit" economies the same way Obama does, Clarice."

Yes he does, He just doesn't understand you can't isolate 'austerity' as the only fix.

[narciso]

Some self awareness dawning, possibly. in the LUN

[centralcal]

narciso - the link is no good. :(

[Ranger]

Hmmm... lets see:

Unemployment by state average for 2010

24 WISCONSIN 8.5

Unemployment by state average for 2011

20 WISCONSIN 7.5

Unemplpoyment by state as of 13 March, 2012

16 WISCONSIN 6.9

The first number is the state's ranking out of all states (lower being better). The last number is % of unemployed.

Gov. Walker is clearly devistating Wisconsin, causing them to drop their unemployment significantly. And the state's unemployment rank is improving, with the state rising almost 10 places since he took office.

Just to put your post in "context" Dana.

[Threadkiller]

Obama should have told Clinton to keep her yapper shut:

"In all of her meetings, the Secretary praised Greece for its efforts to tackle its debt and implement tough austerity measures that will put the country back on the path to economic stability and prosperity. “Greece has inspired the world before, and I have every confidence that you are doing so again,” she said."

http://m.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/07/20/obama-administration-celebrates-strong-american-ties-greece

[Threadkiller]

Austerity was the theme. I ment to highlight that.

[narciso]

It was a side by side, of Michelle, Julia and
Carla, but not the usual one,

[Ben Franklin]

Lies. Damned lies. Statisitcs. The outlook is encouraging for Wisconsin, just as it is Nationally. Piggy-back effect.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/state-gains-15700-jobs-in-january-jobless-rate-falls-to-69-7h4g5an-141935013.html

"The state's overall jobs report, however, was mixed. It included heavy revisions to last year's figures that showed deeper losses of private-sector jobs than previously reported - revealing that the state lost jobs in six of the 12 months, registered zero job growth in a seventh, and a net loss of 9,700 private-sector jobs cumulatively in the months of January through December. Previously released figures had shown a net gain of 13,500 in that period.

[ME]

Sara, you are paranoid. Santorum is a clumsy speaker, and he's not very bright; to make matters worse, he refuses to speak from a teleprompter. FWIW, I have no intention of voting for him. But your snark borders on anti-Catholic bigotry, and that will offend people who do not support Santorum. Romney promised to defund Planned Parenthood today, whereas Santorum has (wrongly, in my view) voted to fund Planned Parenthood and has no intention of banning birth control. So what is your point? If you are at all interested in what he was trying (and mostly failing) to say, read Humanae Vitae for yourself (LUN). Then we can have a nice chat about Mitt Romney's plot to reinstitute the Eighteenth Amendment. Which is just as likely as Santorum banning birth control.

[narciso]

Let me try again, how do you shorten this jpeg;

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS6DL2FPiygAuEKJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp