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March 29, 2012

Comments

NK

Ig-- Google Groups and Facebook did avoid liability-- Craig's List had bigger problems and signed some consent degrees as I recall (serial rapist used their service). Twitter may be different, because it's meant as instantaneous interactive communication for subscribers -- time will tell.

Rick Ballard

"Has it been confirmed that Martin actually had the tea and skittles? "

Pofarmer,

I've seen no confirmation and now I can't even remember if the assertion was made by Martin's girlfriend during her epic conversation which endured for [?] minutes and included all necessary information to exonerate Martin from even the thought that he might have been casing the neighborhood or if it is hearsay by Martin's father, based upon what Martin told the little boy (Martin's father's girlfriend's son) whom he was apparently charged with watching but who neglected to inform the father's girlfriend that St. Trayvon had failed to return from the errand of infinite mercy upon which he had embarked in succor of the little boy's needs.

IOW - the Skittles and ice tea are as necessary to the 'Legend of St Trayvon' as unicorn farts are to the proper worship of the Skydragon. They just fit like a glove.

NK

Boris-- in my little discussion with RobC I always referenced his comment time to let him know to what statement I was referring. In his 2:07 comment RobC told me I was misinterpreting his lethal force statements and I acknowledged that. I never misrepresented what he said -- and he corrected me when I misinterpreted. When he took a shot at me about NY law, I copied the relevant NY Statute and explained what initial agressor is and isn't in NYS. I don't have anything to apologize for; do you?

Mustang0302

Now some scumbag's shaking down Skittles.

Every color in the rainbow...except one!

NK

Skittles and Ice Tea? we'll probably find out they are urban legends like pre-tats and burglar tools Trayvon, legends that the family lawyer and race hustlers created as part of the narrative. That opportunity should not have been left open for them; now the good guys (like TomM) are scrambling trying to put together the real timeline and facts. It did not have to play out this way.

narciso

Sharpton is involved, it had to happen that way, NK,

boris

"In his 2:07 comment RobC told me I was misinterpreting his lethal force statements and I acknowledged that. I never misrepresented what he said -- and he corrected me when I misinterpreted."

That statement is not consistant with reality. Sorry NK.

Clarice

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/report-doj-may-indict-sc-gov-nikki-haley-for-tax-fraud/

The nikki Haley story. After the Stevens fiasco, if anyone abandons her before this is resolved, he should be disgraced.

boris

Also that was just one flagrant example.

Rick Ballard

Pofarmer,

The other thing I haven't seen is confirmation by the 7-11 clerk that St. Trayvon had blessed the establishment with his presence (hopefully with surveillance video, so that we may all share a beatific vision).

qrstuv

"I never misrepresented what he said"

You most certainly did.

You can chalk it up to "misinterpretation" but you did no due diligence to reading his plain words.

Jack is Back!

Why piss off the Indian-American community here in America? They may be the most affluent and educated per capita ethnic community in the country. Between what they have done to Catholics and now Hispanics this only adds another layer of stupidity to the Obama campaign.

NK

Boris-- let's keep going-- more examples please, flagrant or otherwise. BTW-- you're 5:40 is what lawyers call a wholly conclusory statement devoid of any probative value.

boris

"more examples please"

Why bother. You obviously have no clue that you are being an ass.

Ignatz

--Nothing Rob C has written would lead any reasonable person to that conclusion.--

I think a reasonable person could come to that conclusion when he said Tyson would be justified in plugging some puny girl who socked him since the hypothetical was created to envision an extreme example of how a punch did not justify lethal force.
In any event I've made my views known.
Dead horse territory IMO.

NK

misrepresentation means intentionlly in this case. Due diligence means citing the comment time; good faith means accepting someone's clarification. "You certainly did." is also completely conclusory and devoid of probative value. I am looking, but still don't see anything to I need to apologize for.

NK

Ig-- you're a better man than me, I am genetically programed to debate to the end. OK, for that I apologize.

I would still like to meet jay though.

Tom Maguire

Re the video - 'Enlightened's' explanation for "he was on the porch and they shot him", to wit, she paired a recent memory with his final end, is inspired (and thank heaven she didn't say "He was playing football with the neighborhood boys and they shot him", or we would be hearing calls for a round-up and grilling of every kid in the neighborhood.

Second, color me... well, I have linked to that story repeatedly but never run the video. The marking for the crime scene are pretty clear, and the action seems to have happened pretty close to the walkway cutthrough up where the road bends.

Well, I need some screen caps or something to pin that down, but GREAT grist for the mill.

henry

Thanks for the pic of our Lt Gov.

JiB, Rahm assigns tasks like that -- the WI Dem Party is now a front org for the SEIU / Chicago machine.

Pofarmer

He mischarachterized or reversed Rob C's statements at least twice in this thread. You also have to realize what folks are taught in CCW class, at least in MO. DON'T. START. NUTHIN.

boris

"misrepresentation means intentionlly"

Poppycock. Your assertion abot what he said was false. You did not qualify that as your interpretation. Here is what I wrote ...

How is making false statements about what someone here "says" more polite than "shut up"?
Now you want to conflate "false statement" with something you also claim requires "intent"? No sale.

qrstuv

Ignatz:

When did RobC say that "Tyson would be justified in plugging some puny girl who socked him"

When?

I missed that part.

boris

"when he said Tyson would be justified in plugging some puny girl who socked him"

Nothing I read by Rob C comes close to that.

qrstuv

I think that if someone you otherwise respect (an assumption that may not be valid here) says something that sounds outlandish to you, you take it easy trying to understand what the person means before putting words in their mouth. It could very well be that you misunderstood entirely.

Taking care like this... that is due diligence.

OldTimer

This is the Haley/Daily Caller Twitter, if it's still a valid link:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/report-doj-may-indict-sc-gov-nikki-haley-for-tax-fraud/#ixzz1qXnHeTPR

Enlightened

Ok to the legal beagles -

If there were pictures of Zimmerman in a bloodied state (aparrently there are but not sure if from SPD or Z's family? - would TM's attorney/family be privvy to them at this stage?

SFgate advises the family is jumping on the ABC (doctored) video of Z's head and are claiming Z did not have a wound there...so I'm just wondering if any photo's are in the SPD file - can the victims family/attorney have access to them?

I'm just rolling that around since I think it's weird that they claim Zimmerman was not injured.......

jimmyk

True, qrstuv, though I think that cuts both ways. NK clearly misread RobC and others, IMO, but has been around here long enough to get the benefit of the doubt and not get trashed. I would say apologies are in order in both directions, but regardless, it's time to move on.

OldTimer

Oops---didn't see it linked above..

bunkerbuster

If DoT's carrying a gun and I'm a Muslim, I have sound reason to fear for my life, based on his public statements about wanting to kill Muslims.
If I shoot him dead on site, what evidence could the state use to arrest me?
Tyson and a female banker? fuhgeddaboudit. Let's stack the deck a little less forcefully, shall we?
Let's consider Ann Coulter or Mark Steyn or any of the many other ideotainers who rely on anti-Muslim bigotry to sell books and get face time on Fox. Some of them are on record calling for attacks on Muslims. If they choose to carry a firearm, what evidence would the state need to arrest a Muslim who, discovering they were armed, shot them dead?
The Zimmerman precedent, should it stand, may as well be called the terrorist/thug empowerment act, because it will give a license to kill to anyone with half a mind to set up a murder to look like self-defense.
On the other hand, if Zimmerman is arrested, charged and then exonerated, the case would pose no significant legal deterrent or chilling effect on individuals using lethal force in self-defense.
If Zimmerman is arrested and convicted, what would the objection be to his arrest?

Clarice

At this point everything the Martins' lawyer says is designed to force an indictment and poison the jury pool to secure $$$$$$$. Don't forget it.

jimmyk

If only we could arrest and put stupid trolls on trial, maybe it would have a "chilling effect" on them too. What would be the objection?

bunkerbuster

And wingnuts chanting the narrative that Zim had good reason to fear for his life should at least consider what a fine line he's going to have to tread, should a full investigation ever require him to give his side of the story under oath.
Remember, the firearm has to get out of his pocket, or waistband or other concealed location into his hand WHILE he is being beaten toward death.
A struggle for the gun solves that problem, but the Official Wingnut Fantasy Narrative of events doesn't yet include that AND would contradict the gospel according to Zim's father.
If Zimmerman is cold-cocked and getting his head smashed on the ground, AND Trayvon sees the gun, how does Zim prevent Trayvon from seizing the gun?
Nothing's impossible but as scenarios go, that one's extremely unlikely...

Ignatz

Shut up bubu. You're stupid and dishonest.
See, I'm not that tolerant, boris. :)

matt

Tax fraud cases are pursued through the IRS, not the DoJ normally, aren't they?

according to one web site:

First, the IRS Service Center may send you a non-threatening written notice informing you of a discrepancy in your taxes.

Second, you may receive a letter or phone call from a Taxpayer Service Representative giving you a deadline for re-filing your taxes.

Third, a Revenue Agent or Officer may call you or visit you in your home, giving a deadline for filing the returns and perhaps offering to assist you in preparing the returns. If you refuse to file your taxes at this point, the IRS can file a return for you, which may not be as favorable as it would be otherwise.

Fourth, an agent of the IRS Criminal Investigation Division may pay you a visit, informing you that you are now a target of a criminal investigation


Since the IRS falls under the Treasury Department the heavy lifting is done there. It then goes to Justice for criminal prosecution.

But since she's been governor for a year and then a member of the SC legislature for several years, I would not think she would risk her career and her freedom in that manner.

Then again, Herman Cain must have thought he was invincible and hubris seems to run in tandem with the choice of a political career these days.

Mustang0302

Hey, y'all...stop a moment and take a quick look at the title of this thread...

...like a Twilight Zone episode, ain't it?

Rick Ballard

jimmyk,

They're already serving a life sentence of stupidity without possibility of parole. There's probably an 8th Amendment problem concerning a penalty harsher than that.

Extraneus

One the CRT front...

Herm Edwards: Rooney Rule 'a sham' as Saints eye Parcells

Bill Parcells hasn't been offered a position with the New Orleans Saints, and the team isn't rushing to replace Sean Payton during his one-year suspension from the league.

That didn't stop former NFL coach Herm Edwards from lambasting the Saints in light of the Rooney Rule, which requires teams to interview at least one minority candidate for head-coaching positions. Edwards believes New Orleans' perceived interest in Parcells turns the eventual hiring process into a foregone conclusion.

"It makes it a little bit of a scam now," Edwards said on ESPN, via ProFootballTalk.com. "That's the shame of it all. Sean Payton opening his mouth like he did, he really reflects that this thing is going to become a sham if Bill Parcells takes this job. Because if you do decide to interview a minority, you're going to go with Bill Parcells. You've already said, 'This is our coach.' That's the shame of it all. It puts (NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell) in another bind."

Let me just say that Herm Edwards was a terrible coach - really terrible - and he got his head-coaching job with the Jets after never having been either an offensive or defensive coordinator. Who else has done that?

Threadkiller

--" If DoT's carrying a gun and I'm a Muslim"--

If?

Ignatz

--Ignatz:

When did RobC say that "Tyson would be justified in plugging some puny girl who socked him"

When?

I missed that part.--

--Nothing I read by Rob C comes close to that.--

Rob said;
"If someone attacks with their fists -- drop 'em dead where they stand."

which sounded pretty all inclusive and prompted the NK response which you both objected to and his Tyson hypothetical to which Rob responded thusly;

"*sigh*

Tyson initiated the encounter. He's at fault."

which states that Tyson is fault not because he was using excessive force on a puny woman but because he called her a name and thereby initiated the altercation.
I'm not going through the rest of thread to see how it further devolved or was deconstructed.

This horse has initiated an altercation and according to case law I'm authorized to use my .450 Rigby to make sure it stays dead. BOOM!

Threadkiller

Ext, I was going to say Obama, but I am pretty sure he has been an offensive coordinator.

Extraneus

If only we could arrest and put stupid trolls on trial, maybe it would have a "chilling effect" on them too. What would be the objection?

Heh. None here.

NK

qrstuv/Boris-- go back and read the comments 1:16 - 1:33, I believed that RobC saidlethal force could always be used to defend against fists when RobC@1:16said:

"Actually, you're not. If someone attacks with their fists -- drop 'em dead where they stand"

That's pretty definitive-- I don't think I was reckless to believe that RobC was saying a fist attack gave a right to unconditional lethal force. Then @133 you can see where I misunderstood what RobC meant. from 2:04 on, you can see where RobC and I clarified what we were saying and how RobC corrected me @207. I have no problem with anything RobC said all afternoon, we disagree on somethings, he corrected me and I corrected him about NYS law. That said, you guys may want to look at your own comments --pretty silly. frankly I don't care if you guys look infantile, but it's something you guys may want to ponder.

MarkO

--" If DoT's carrying a gun and I'm a Muslim"--

You could not be safer. In fact, DoT would do anything in his power to not have to use his weapon. Obama would likely shoot you first, just out of his ordinary stupidity.

boatbuilder

Ex--Herm Edwards is right--they will have to interview Dennis Green or that guy who just coached the Colts into position to draft Andrew Luck, but it's a sham. Herm should know--he's done a lot of those interviews. And you are correct--Herm Edwards was a terrible coach.

Pofarmer

Infantile?

Was I the one misusing brandishing who refused to be corrected? No. Was I the one making up ridiculous circumstances to bolster a fictitious Point? No. Am I the one making difinitive statements on what people with CCW permits are instructed on when I myself have not been so instructed? No. And NK, to be precise, you're 6:54 still makes you look like a pompous ass on this thread.

Cecil Turner

. . . which states that Tyson is fault not because he was using excessive force on a puny woman but because he called her a name and thereby initiated the altercation.

Umm, not quite. He stated the first reason Tyson would not be able to claim self-defense. He didn't say that was the only reason. And since both of these guys are using different statutes it's pretty hard to evaluate, but apparently that reason is correct in Ohio.

Meanwhile, the Florida statute is interesting:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
I'm not sure what "provoked" consists of (and whether or not a verbal would be sufficient), but by my reading Zimmerman would have a good case under either 2(a) or (b) above, if the witness corroborates his being beaten and his shouting for help.

boatbuilder

Yes, BuBu--he should be forced to give a full accounting of his actions, under oath, so that the state can charge him with murder. And even better, if it doesn't add up, the state can charge him with perjury. What a great country! What the hell is wrong with Florida?

Cecil Turner

Carp. Meant to say in my hypothetical above that Zimmerman has a case even if he provoked the incident.

boris

"If someone attacks with their fists -- drop 'em dead where they stand."

In the first place that was not related to the Tyson hypo. Also life threatening unprovoked attack was the context of that statement responding to "If an assailant attacks with a lethal weapon ... drop 'em dead wwhere they stand. I issue medals for that".

Self defense does not rule out disproportionate means. People die in fist fights on a regular basis.

Extraneus

That's interesting, Cecil. So the FL statute doesn't give the "stand your ground" exemption to the initiator, but still gives that person the right of self-defense in the event that it isn't possible to escape great bodily harm.

Seems reasonable.

boatbuilder

And can we please give Mike Tyson a break? He hasn't done anything completely insane for at least several months.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Via MacsMind:

I’ve obtained copies of the Paramedic report on George Zimmerman from the scene and it confirms the injuries in the police report. For HIPAA reasons I won’t post it here, but it says in part that subject sustained superficial lacerations on the back on his head, left cheek and a swollen nose. He was treated and cleared for transport.
Cecil Turner

Can't believe it: somebody spelled "HIPAA" correctly in casual usage. Rare as hen's teeth.

Extraneus

Speaking of the Jets...

NY judge blocks sales of Jets-Tebow apparel

U.S. District Judge Kevin Castel granted Nike Inc. a temporary restraining order late Wednesday, finding "sufficient reason" for him to block sales of Tebow merchandise created by Reebok International Ltd. after March 1.

Nike has a five-year contract to be the NFL's exclusive provider of on-field apparel, including game uniforms and sideline apparel. It maintained in a lawsuit that Reebok rushed to market with Tebow apparel to take advantage of a "unique and short-lived opportunity."

[snip]

Castel banned Reebok from selling any apparel with the name "Tebow" on it unless it was made by March 1, while he was still with the Broncos. He set a hearing in the case for Wednesday.

Reebok had the license until March 1, and Nike has it beginning April 1. Kind of amazing that nobody had it between those dates.

Steve

If Martin was on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him, would there be blood on Zimmerman?

Extraneus

If Martin was on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him, would there be blood on Zimmerman?

Possibly, but unlike the exit wound, the entry wound doesn't usually splash blood.

Danube of Thought

"I have sound reason to fear for my life, based on his public statements about wanting to kill Muslims"

No you don't. Anyway, in ten seconds I'd have ny foot on your neck.

NK

CecilT-- I didn't read the early sections of the Florida statute, but GZ is claiming he was NOT the INITIAL AGRESSOR, GZ claims that he was walking back to his car when Martin jumped him; so GZ claims he could use lethal force because he was in danger of serious injury or death. Now if the facts were that GZ threw the first punch at Martin -- therefore GZ was the aggressor, in order for GZ to have a defense under 2(a) --GZ would have to show that Martin was on top of him , he couldn't escape, Martin was banging his head on the ground, he could feel the blood and if he didn't use lethal force Martin would have killed him. I can't see the special prosecutor being able to establish those facts definitively at this point. The circus will continue, unfortunately.

Ignatz

--In the first place that was not related to the Tyson hypo.--

Goddamned horse.
It resulted directly in the Tyson hypothetical precisely because it was so all inclusive.

--Umm, not quite. He stated the first reason Tyson would not be able to claim self-defense.--

Cecil,
There is nothing in the statement I quoted that says this was the first of two or more reasons Tyson would be legally culpable. NK gave his hypothetical and Rob only said Tyson was liable because he had initiated the altercation verbally, which incidentally appears incorrect.
He may have meant more but he didn't state it.
And he may even have stated it later. I'm not parsing the whole thread to find out.

--I'm not sure what "provoked" consists of (and whether or not a verbal would be sufficient)--

Not sure about Florida but the statute that Rob himself quoted seemed to implicitly exclude verbal provocation as sufficient since the first party could not have started the altercation through an intent only to physically harm the second party.

Just to remind everyone, I disagreed with most of NK's points on this thread and only objected to what seemed like over the top criticism of him personally. Haven't seen anything yet justifying those personal digs.

Danube of Thought

"Some of them are on record calling for attacks on Muslims. If they choose to carry a firearm, what evidence would the state need to arrest a Muslim who, discovering they were armed, shot them dead?"

Sounds like bubu thinks we can shoot to kill the NBBP guys on sight.

Danube of Thought

"...should a full investigation ever require him to give his side of the story under oath."

What will it take to make this young fool understand that no such requirement can ever be imposed on him? Really, how stupid is this kid?

Extraneus

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."

boris

That's pretty definitive-- I don't think I was reckless to believe that RobC was saying a fist attack gave a right to unconditional lethal force.

Who cares if you were "reckless", you ascribed a position to him that was false. Then you tried to claim calling you on it was invalid based on your "intent". Also false. You have been squirming over that call since then and have yet to acknowledge it was valid.

NK

Boris@710-- I appreciate you're being more polite... but... you repeatedly accused me of intentionally or at least recklessly misrepresenting what RobC said. NOW, you're saying I --let's say-- carelessly misunderstood the context of "..attacks with their fists.. drop em where they stand" I'll accept @710 as your acknowledgement that I didn't intentionally or recklessly misrepresent someone else's comments. It's important to me that record at JOM reflect that.

Danube of Thought

"If I shoot him dead on site, what evidence could the state use to arrest me?"

The sentence immediately preceding that question would be sufficient to get you the needle, moron.

NK

Ig,Ig-- Please see my @7:32, I've deemed Boris@7:10 as an acknowledgement that I didn't intentionally misrepresent anyone's comments. I'm good with that. You are a fair man, appreciate your kind words, but I'm moving on. Hope the scan went AOK, and your muscle building plan is on course. Regards, NK

Cecil Turner

GZ is claiming he was NOT the INITIAL AGRESSOR, GZ claims that he was walking back to his car when Martin jumped him;

I know. But both Z's father and the GF version have a short discussion initiated by Trayvon (either "why are you following me?" or "what's your problem?" or some such). Seems to me that's the weakest part of GZ's story--on the chance that following TM is interpreted to "provoke" the use of force.

And as to GZ's reasonable fear of great bodily harm, looks to me like he and the witnesses all concur on that point (except for the earwitnesses, which I think any reasonable observer would discount).

Steve

"... Possibly, but unlike the exit wound, the entry wound doesn't usually splash blood. ..."

If you shoot someone dead who is kneeling above you, punching you in the head, do they fall on top of you? It will be interesting to read what Zimmerman has to say about where he was when he shot Martin. If there is any distance between the two, or Martin was not striking him, Zimmerman has a problem.

Cecil Turner

There is nothing in the statement I quoted that says this was the first of two or more reasons Tyson would be legally culpable.

Doesn't need two reasons. Any one would make Tyson culpable. The answer to the hypothetical (which everyone agrees) is that he was culpable.

(He's also a convicted felon, in one or more of those jurisdictions he'd have a duty to withdraw, he had other options than a firearm . . . and I bet there's a couple more.)

narciso

Ah you follow the Ballasy story, to the Palmetto bugs, and we find a link to Will Folks's outfit, the creepy IM like libeler,
re these supposed lawsuits, that are the basis for these charges,

Cecil Turner

If there is any distance between the two, or Martin was not striking him, Zimmerman has a problem.

My understanding of the forensics is that this is very easy to determine and remarkably accurate. I seriously doubt they'd be leaking inconsequential detention video if there were evidence showing a significant distance between shooter and victim.

Extraneus

Since we're so far into the weeds, what constitutes the provocation of legitimate physical violence? It can't be the following of a person or words. Surely not the n-word in Martin's case, and I know that hasn't been alleged.

If Martin initiated physical violence, what justification could he have possibly had?

Pofarmer

If Martin was rushing him, and zimmerman threw the "first punch" he is still in the clear. Heck, if Martin was rushing him, and Zimmerman plugged him, he would be in the clear, but, that wouldn't happen froma waste band holster.

NK

CecilT-- if the facts are -- IF-- GZ is following Martin, Martin turns and confronts GZ, and GZ does nothing except say impolite things (ef-off), GZ is not an aggressor -- no way. GZ's conduct would have to initiate physical force -- or at least the threat of physical force-- of some kind to be an aggressor. IF, IF Martin throws the first punch, GZ can use reasonable force and lethal force defenses. Your statute section relates to GZ FIRST pushing, shoving or threatening physical force (ie brandishing his gun) against Martin. Even then GZ has his defenses if Martin had trapped him and was pounding his head on the ground. To avoid indictment, IMO, the investigation would have to conclusivelty show GZ was not an aggressor. I'm not optomistic.

Danube of Thought

OT: watching Bush 41 endorsing Romney, he sounds as though he has aged a great deal very recently. Fine gentleman.

MarkO

Bush 41 may have been the most qualified man ever to be elected President.

Jane

Changing the subject: I just got back from a republican fundraiser - it was a dinner with 2 speakers - one the vice chairman of the rep party and the other one of the "heavy hitters" who reports on Fox every week. I was "the moderator."

It was such a blast. I asked pretty provocative questions, I think. They started out saying they didn't think there was all that much media bias but the press gravitated toward the most provocative story. I followed up by saying "how would you explain the lack of coverage on Fast and Furious and the excessive coverage on Trayvon Martin. The guy actually rethought his premise and we had an interesting dialogue (even tho I'm pretty sure I wasn't supposed to be dialoguing.)

The repub guy compared OWS with the Tea party (I had asked how he planned to get the tea party in his corner) and he said the tea party was better. I told him he would be smart to never ever mention the two in the same sentence as there was no comparison. The crowd applauded.

The repub guy said he didn't trust blogs but wanted something edited. I asked him about the Dan Rather story and reminded a blogger made that happen. He reconsidered.

There was lots more.

Both congratulated me at the end. And I LOVED IT! I've never done anything like that before but it really was a blast.

Okay, enough about me....but I couldn't help but share.

Extraneus

If you shoot someone dead who is kneeling above you, punching you in the head, do they fall on top of you?

Maybe if you shot them with a .22 or possibly even a .32, but I would think a 9mm hollow-point would launch him backwards pretty forcefully, and most people carrying a 9mm would be packing hollow-points unless they're at the shooting range.

Captain Hate

Let me just say that Herm Edwards was a terrible coach - really terrible - and he got his head-coaching job with the Jets after never having been either an offensive or defensive coordinator. Who else has done that?

Herm was like a black Marty Schottenheimer with his clueless looks on the sideline while getting smoked by his opponent, although without the regular season victories to set up the inevitable playoff collapsing lolcano. Even though Herm's being a complete imbecile in this (and thank you for deviating for the trollbait topic of this stale thread) anything that puts sand in Roger Goodell's mangina gets my full approval.

bunkerbuster

DoT brags: ``Anyway, in ten seconds I'd have ny foot on your neck.''
Making my point that you have a track record of threatening unoprovoked violence against Muslims. Remember, whether or not you intended to kill me isn't at issue, given the Zimmerman precedent. The issue is whether it would be reasonable to assume you did. More important, it will be up to the state to obtain evidence you DIDN'T intend to kill me before I can even be arrested. And please do tell us how you think they'd go about doing that, given your published record of bigotry and threats.
If the Zimmerman precedent does stand, I wonder if it will have a chilling effect on all the bigotry spewed on web sites like this.

Ignatz

--and your muscle building plan is on course.--

Like clockwork. Circumference of my head has increased a solid inch.

--Doesn't need two reasons. Any one would make Tyson culpable.--

I'm pretty sure my game winning field goal just fell short cause the goalposts got picked up and moved 10 rows into the stands.
You said he stated the first reason, but according to the statute he quoted he didn't state a valid reason Tyson would be culpable.
I don't know if he ever stated a second reason and I'm suddenly trying without success to remember why I care. :)
Besides any hypothetical in which Mike Tyson is the shooter and not the shootee is invalid on its face.

NK

Po@748-- does Florida Law hold that lethal force can be used in self-defense withOUT a reasonable fear of imminent serious bodily harm? Do you have the statute or case citation for that? Or are you saying that a 17yo "rushing at" a 28yo creates reasonable fear as a matter of law in Florida?

henry

Jane, many here posited that a blogger as moderator would be superior to the standard MSM types. Sounds like you proved it!

Extraneus

Go Jane! Surprising they needed that amount of remedial education.

Gmax

With a pretty decent sized exit wound and blood and sinew and maybe bone scattered behind him. I cant imagine anyone getting a license for Concealed Carry and then carrying a .22 which might not stop a determined dog.

Gmax

OK Jane who was the heavy hitter? Inquiring minds want to know...

centralcal

How very cool, Jane! Sounds like you did a great job!

Jane

Surprising they needed that amount of remedial education.

That's the mainstream, and they are everywhere.

Ignatz

Go Jane!
For your next great trick, could you please step on bubu's neck too?

NK

Ig-- ah-- the anabolics are working then. I hope you're not using the Mexican bovine steroid stuff the HS kids get on line.

Pofarmer

NK, what is with you?

"To avoid indictment, IMO, the investigation would have to conclusivelty show GZ was not an aggressor. I'm not optomistic. "

Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? That State has to prove it was NOT self defense. Witness statements corroborate that it was.

Let's see, it's dark and raining, some guy comes rushing straight at me at top speed in the dark. Should I fear bodily harm? Good Golly beave.

Threadkiller

I just not a conspiracy kind of a guy.

http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/pentagon-has-no-records-of-osama-bin-ladens-death/

Gmax

Bunky you would piss your pants and cry for momma? A weinie like you aint got a weapon or a clue...

Jane

Bubu should leave in shame. I've asked him the same question 3 times and he won't answer. He does not deal in facts.

Pofarmer

How much blood on the shooter would depend on bullet, shot placement, etc. A 9mm at point blank is probably going to go pretty much straight through, would be my guess. Whoever asked about point blank, I think it was steve, most CCW shootings occur at less than 7 yards.

Gmax

Bunky used to be a drive by troll. But since Dana bares his @ss and gets it banned, he becomes a nonstop poster. Coincidence or conspiracy?

Extraneus

I cant imagine anyone getting a license for Concealed Carry and then carrying a .22 which might not stop a determined dog.

I usually carry a Seecamp .32 when I carry, but I know enough to squeeze off two or three shots if necessary.

bunkerbuster

Anyone got a got reason Zimmerman wasn't arrested for involuntary manslaughter?

narciso

Really TK, David 'Frickin' Ray Griffin, the king of the 9/11 denialists on this side of the Atlantic,

Janet

Wonderful, Jane!! Thanks for filling us in...I love hearing about it. I wish we could get your TV show.

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Wilson/Plame