Thursday Morning

Glenn links to this WaPo hand-wringer about Obama's quagmire in Afghanistan.  Their Big Finish:

And it’s little wonder that most Americans favor withdrawing troops as quickly as possible. If it’s evident that the president won’t defend the war, and is focused on “winding down” rather than winning, why should anyone else support it?

Gee, an anti-war President, leading an anti-war party, isn't four-square behind his own effort in Afghanistan.  Could anyone have seen this coming?

To be fair, Afghanistan was always going to be tough - it was not christened the Graveyard of Empires on January 20, 2009.  Still, Obama's lack of commitment has been obvious for years - certainly the hokey-pokey surge was a clue, as the WaPo acknowledges.

As soon as Barack gets enough Republican cover he will declare Mission Accomplished on his own Operation Manhood (Are You Tougher Than Bush?) and head for the exits.

Comments

[narciso]

Well that's a fairly level headed Op Ed, I suppose Ignatius and Hoagland crafted it, Karzai has really gotten on my last nerve, lately, almost justifying in retrospect Biden's stupid statement,

[Jane]

I just got off the radio - I debated for the whole hour (in my head) whether to talk about CRT or not. Finally, in last few minutes I brought it up. Dick often flies off the handle when he thinks I am being too radical (only to realize I was right a few weeks later) but this time he was fascinated. I started in with an explanation of Bell at Harvard, how CRT fits in with Holder at Justice and Butts in the WH counsel office and brought it all down to motive, how CRT explains a lot of actions by this WH which never made sense to me, like the disparate treatment of people under the Constitution. I tied in Kagan and Sotomayer and mentioned Obama teaching it at Univ of Chicago.

Dick's shocking response was that it was fascinating and we needed to talk more about it next week. Oh and I referred the audience to Shapiro's article at Breitbart and Clarice's Pieces at American Thinker.

Supposedly our audience has grown a lot since we are now on TV so hopefully some people are paying attention. I'll see how it plays tomorrow night when I watch the show.

[Cecil Turner]

To be fair, Afghanistan was always going to be tough - it was not christened the Graveyard of Empires on January 20, 2009.

Yes, it was always going to be tough. But the real issue was the same as for Iraq: as long as the US is willing to persevere, the Taliban/Al Qaeda/Islamists can't win. So the true battlefield is in the hearts and minds of the US public.

The President (as Candidate Obama) and his supporters made political haystacks out of Afghanistan being the right war, bemoaning combatant detainment in Gitmo, due process and humane treatment for detainees, and an early end to the Iraq war. It turned out they were serious about none of them. But along the way, they engaged in a propaganda war against the GOP that is still yielding an anti-American public opinion harvest both at home and abroad. His publicly expressed lack of resolve exacerbates the problem.

And now, finding that the task has grown more difficult, they wonder that our enemies are emboldened and supporters are not. One of my favorite Duke characters could point out the obvious:

Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
--Sgt. Stryker

[Janet]

Is there any on-line connection to your show, Jane? I would love to watch it. I used to listen to your radio show sometimes...is that still possible?

[centralcal]

Good for you, Jane! I really wish we had access to your TV show.

[NK]

Bravo TomM-- fantastic Thursday morning snark about 'Bam's manhood.
Here we are in March 2012 -- Bush's folly Iraq is faction filled and corrupt as always, but it is using its oil resources responsibly and factions are balanced by political means. Iraq is a real nation state, and its government doesn't murder citizens by the thousands as Sadaam did for decades-- it COULD be better for the US strategically if 'Bam hadn't pulled troops prematurely, but c'est la vie. 'Bam's REAL war Afghan is a shambles. 'Bam's kissy letter engagement to the Mullahs has led to the Mullah bomb and a hot war about to breakout. 'Bam's Russia engagement? Vlad is still dictaor, and he uses Russia's oil resources to undermine the US Dollar and US influence.
The world has taken note of 'Bam and he has been weighed and measured and found wanting.

[Jane]

I can get CD's of the show but I really have no idea how to upload them. I also can get copies of the radio feed bit I don't know how to edit them so the commercials are gone. I used to pay someone but no longer do. I need someone to teach me.

Or you guys could come visit...

[Thomas Collins]

I'm glad to hear that your audience is growing, Jane. Central Mass is quite fortunate to have access to your show.

[narciso]

With Iraq, I think the initial approach to the Baathists around 1963, was the bad call,
they were in many respects the return of the Golden Square, it had taken a military expedition to dislodge back in '41, the second mistake was the Iraq card played since 1980, which led to liquidation of what was left of the Shia intelligentsia.

[narciso]

Congrats Jane, when do you take office.

[Thomas Collins]

Agree or disagree with GWB's Iraq or Afghanistan policies, he clearly acted in what he thought was the best interests of the US. Of many things that sicken me about this current POTUS, the most sickening is playing domestic politics with the lives of our military men and women.

[Thomas Collins]

Has Jane been elected to a position?

[Jack is Back!]

OT: A little humor to prepare you for St. Paddy's Day.

Three Irishmen are sitting in the pub window seat,

Watching the front door of the brothel over the road.

The local Methodist pastor appears, and quickly goes inside.

"Would you look at that!" says the first Irishman.

"Didn't I always say what a bunch of hypocrites they are?"
No sooner are the words out of his mouth than a Rabbi appears at the door,

Knocks, and goes inside.

"Another one trying to fool everyone with pious preaching and stupid hats!"

They continue drinking their beer roundly condemning the vicar and the rabbi

When they see their own Catholic priest knock on the door.

"Ah, now dat's sad." says the third Irishman.

"One of the girls must have died.

[narciso]

'cry havoc and let loose the suits of spite;

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/14/trial-lawyers-unwrap-obama-gift-on-ada-tomorrow/

[NK]

ThomasC@10:07-- excellent point. I was very dubious about Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld go small footprint approach in Afghan and then Iraq. In Iraq, it was wrong because of the strategic importance of Iraq to the US and AQ. In Afghan it was very wise, AND SAVED US servicemen lives. This BS ARTIST 'Bam's 2007-2008 BS about the 'REAL' war in Afghan has only resulted in more servicemen's death's than during Bush's 7 year, and now 'Bam's REAL war ends in FAILURE. 'Bam is an incompetent poseur, and NO he's NOT a patriot because he loves himself more than the US.

[narciso]

I recall a number of contemporaenous threads debunking the underlying premise;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/03/14/game-change-mental-instability-meme-crushed-by-facts

[Clarice]

Thanks for the mention, Jane. And good for you for bringing this up. everything each of us does to break thru the media iron curtain is a win.

[Threadkiller]

Happy Birthday Porch!

http://www.teapartytribune.com/2012/03/05/attorneys-general-join-forces-to-call-into-account-illegal-obama-administration-violations/

[narciso]

And of course, Bam's million dollar savant, is treated with kid gloves, that's to be expected.

[NK]

Narc-- wait, wait-- you mean Hollywood - types are lying weasels? I never realized.

[Chubby]

((... it was not christened the Graveyard of Empires on January 20, 2009))

which is probably why the left always favored the Afghanistan campaign as the just war they could support

Prairie Fire is chock full of evil empire rhetoric

[narciso]

Not to mention the original Port Huron statement,

[Clarice]

who wants to be the last president to die for this war?

Actually, this was all perfectly predictable. I fee so sad for our troops. The picture of them watching Panetta yesterday stripped of their rifles tells the story of how betrayed and demoralized they were.

[MarkO]

Good work Jane.

Obama single-handedly killed Osama, though. I read that somewhere. I think.

Bang.

[narciso]

But 'he's just in over his head' oh yeah this is going to go well, was Cassandra Butts, Van Jones, Ezekiel Emmanuel, also that way.

[Jack is Back!]

Iowahawk tweets:

Chu on that: Chicago premium unleaded at $4.85/gallon this AM. Shell at Grand & Ashland. http://www.chicagogasprices.com/Map_Gas_Prices.aspx

Down here we are at $4:19 a gallon (premium) but I understand that in parts of California it is over $5 a gallon. Still cheaper than Europe - translates to more high speed trains, algae and bike paths.

[Appalled]

How is the Afghanistan war serving vital us interests now that Osama is dead and al Qaeda is a rump organization of aging losers?

The war does cost billions. Are we getting our money's worth?

[Jim Ryan]

Jamie Dupree is reported that the GOP candidate for POTUS always wins if it's a November 6th election. You can't argue with the facts.

[narciso]

I don't recall this foolishness, when Conrad Black was in charge;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9144862/Samantha-Cameron-and-Michelle-Obama-go-head-to-head-in-fashion-showdown.html

[Jack is Back!]

An update to the Obama flag flying in Lake County, Florida by the local Democrat party:

Vets are Racists.

Probably got that talking point from DWS via Grayson.

[Thomas Collins]

Clarice, do you know whether there were armed guards around Panetta? The notion that the tent in which Panetta spoke could have been turned into a no gun zone is unbelievable. Then again, the fact that the Nidal Hasans of the world could implement jihadism at an area of a US miltary base that was apparently a no gun zone is also unbelievable.

[Janet]

More anti-smoking "stuff".

"The campaign, called "Tips from Former Smokers" "

I'm serious about the equal treatment for the sexually promiscuous. It can be called "Tips from Former Sexual Deviants". It can show people with genital warts & maybe some people with AIDS. They can highlight historical figures that died prematurely from syphilis. The possibilities are endless...a cute animated pubic lice character would be perfect for reaching kids with this important message.

[Jim Ryan]

now that Osama is dead and al Qaeda is a rump organization

Appalled, that question is close to asking, "Why should I keep using dandruff shampoo, now that the dandruff's gone?" Not close enough, though, I admit. But I wonder whether al Qaeda will thrive in the Afghan mountains as soon as we leave.

[Thomas Collins]

How about tips from individuals at gun free zones when a jihadist starts shooting?

[Ranger]

How is the Afghanistan war serving vital us interests now that Osama is dead and al Qaeda is a rump organization of aging losers?

The mission is key terrain denial. Afghanistan is the ideal base for an organization like AQ. Letting them have it simply starts the entire cycle running up to another 9/11 all over again.

It also lets us choose the battlefield, rather than letting them choose where they would like to fight. And they will keep fighting. Iraq significantly thinned their ranks, but until we really take the war to the heart of this beast, they will still produce new recruits.

[Thomas Collins]

Appalled, whatever al-Qaeda is now, the jihadist movement goes on, and is not a rump movement. If you want to make the case that the Taliban won't allow jihadists to once again use Afghanistan as a staging ground after we pull out, fine, make that case. But please don't be taken in by the al-Qaeda is damaged meme. It is likely that we have not seen a fraction of the damage the jihadist movement is going to inflict on civilization.

[Threadkiller]

Will it save California?

http://citizenlegislaturenow.com/info.html

Apparently this initiative has gained a lot more traction than imagined.

" SACRAMENTO, CA Assemblywoman Shannon Grove (R-Bakersfield) and Taxfighter Ted Costa of People's Advocate have submitted a proposal to the office of the Attorney General calling for a part-time Citizen Legislature." The initiative, if qualified with enough signatures from registered voters, will appear on the November 2012 election ballot.

The California legislature is ship-wrecked and needs to be re-structured. Since switching to a full-time body in the 1960s, the Legislature has steadily deteriorated, infiltrated by professional politicians, beholden to special interests, and has sunk to a 'whatever it takes' gang -- where anything goes to remain in power.

"Unfortunately, what was sold to voters at the time as an 'upgrade' - a full-time, highly paid professional legislature to deal with Californias vast size and economy --has proven to be a terrible decision, reminding us again of the warning that 'power corrupts', Grove continued.

The Grove-Costa initiative proposes that the legislature may only meet for 90 days per year, with exceptions allowed for emergencies called by the Governor. It also calls for a two-year budget, with the first of the two years in each legislative session to be strictly for adopting a two-year budget. The measure dramatically lowers legislator's salaries to $1,500 per month from almost $8000 per month, and limits per diem and travel expenses.

Most other legislatures, even from the more populated states, meet for just enough time to handle the peoples business, explained Grove. Then the legislators return to their districts and their regular jobs to live under the rules they make like regular citizens - that's why it is titled 'The Citizen Legislature Act'. This is truly public service. In California, however, legislators are paid far more than most other states and have acquired an elitist mentality to governing; passing too many laws, taxing and regulating working people into bankruptcy, riding roughshod over the moral standards of ordinary people, and even passing harsh laws that they exempt themselves from following. They are out of touch with every day Californians trying to earn a living, run a business, provide for their families and make ends meet," Grove stated.

"This initiative will bring our elected officials back to reality; it will get them away from the seductive atmosphere of the Capitol Dome, get them back home with family, neighbors and work and give them a better chance, as a Citizen Legislator, to serve their constituents best interests, she added."

I will sign.

[Thomas Collins]

But on a lighter note, with the First Four games out of the way and the Big Dance Round of 64 beginning soon, good luck to the team with the best men's college coach in the country, especially since I picked that team to win it all in my office pool. Yes, I'm going with the Michigan State Spartans.

[Jim Ryan]

Janet, here's your script for the PSA cartoon:

WARTY [UGLY WART CARTOON CHARACTER]: Hi, kids! I'm Warty! You don't want to get me on your privates! Trust me on that one, kids. And if you do, I ain't goin' nowheres. I'll be yours forever! So, remember kids, next time don't [REDACTED] when you go out on a date, or [REDACTED] your girlfriend or boyfriend just because it feels good at the time. Because I'll feel bad on your [REDACTED] forever and ever! Oh, and try explaining me to someone you decide you might want to marry. Good luck with that!

[Clarice]

I would bet Panetta had guards but haven't examined all the photos to be sure. It did appear there were Afghanis in the audience and there was a report suggesting this was done to put all the US and Afghan forces on equal footing security wise. Pheh

[Thomas Collins]

I would bet that too, Clarice. However, if jihadists had infiltrated the tent, Panetta would have been safer if all our soldiers had been armed.

[narciso]

The Pakistani Taliban was created by one of those Levick group Gitmo detainees, Abdallah
Mehsud, what will releasing 5 for negotiating
purposes do,

[pagar]

Jane Wins Again! So happy to hear all your good news.
--------------------------------------------
So the Obama regime disarms US troops in Afghanistan and:

U.S. State Department Actively Promoting Islam in Europe

http://www.stonegateinstitute.org/2916/state-department-promoting-islam-europe

These policy are insane, IMO.
----------------------------------------
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/lets-face-it-he-hates-us-obama-in-1990-were-going-to-reshape-mean-spirited-and-selfish-america/

All you need to know about Obama was told to us by Obama long ago.
------------------------

[Janet]

This is a wonderful video!!!
Soldier Deck of Cards.

[Janet]

WARTY

Hah, Jim!!

[fdcol63]

Islam is not just a religion. It is an all-encompassing system that controls the religious, political, economic, military and educational aspects of Muslim culture.

There is no "separation of church and state", and Islam is completely intolerant of non-Islamic systems.

The whole notion of jihad is based on this.

This is why, IMO, Islam is totally incompatible with our Western culture and systems of government and why there is no hope for co-existence with Islam, no matter how much we Westerners would like to be tolerant ourselves and co-exist with it.

It really is an issue of "us" or "them".

[Jim Ryan]

Narciso, a better argument than the "he hates us" one is to explain to Americans that Obama's political views - progressivism - are unconnected from reality, that by human nature societies do better when they are based on liberty and personal responsibility and when their members rely on themselves and private charities when needed rather than on large, intrusive, corrupt and wasteful government programs, etc. etc. etc. (you know the arguements.) The "he hates us" argument ain't goin' nowheres any more than the birther argument, even if it is true.

[Extraneus]

Let's not forget what the Jihadists are fighting for.

Suicide of Moroccan girl, 16, forced to marry rapist sparks outrage

An online petition, a Facebook page and countless tweets expressed horror over the suicide of Amina Filali, who swallowed rat poison on Saturday to protest her marriage to the man who raped her a year earlier.

Article 475 of the Moroccan penal code allows for the "kidnapper" of a minor to marry his victim to escape prosecution, and it has been used to justify a traditional practice of making a rapist marry his victim to preserve the honor of the woman's family.

"Amina, 16, was triply violated, by her rapist, by tradition and by Article 475 of the Moroccan law," tweeted activist Abadila Maaelaynine.

She did it to "protest"...

[Extraneus]

That article I just lined is worth a "read it all."

Filali said Amina complained to her mother that her husband was beating her repeatedly during the five months of marriage but that her mother counseled patience.

[Clarice]

fdcol, I remind you that separation of church and state is a relatively new concept even in Western cultures.

[centralcal]

OMG, Janet that is wonderful and quite moving. Thanks for sharing.

[narciso]

There is a point when mere ignorance, because
lethal, jim;

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/293556/obama-cameron-lets-use-our-emergency-oil-reserves#comment-bar

[Ignatz]

--If you want to make the case that the Taliban won't allow jihadists to once again use Afghanistan as a staging ground after we pull out, fine, make that case.--

The strategy of our war has been largely wrong. The terrorists themselves only exist by courtesy of national governments; their sponsors. Our emphasis on killing the terrorists themselves and setting up benign democratic governments is not only quite expensive and probably impossible in that area of the world it is unnecessary. A quick but thorough destruction of the national government of terrorist sponsoring states and their armed forces with the explicit warning that subsequent sponsoring will cause a repeat and even more thorough performance is more effective at taking us off their target list and saves us the impossible burden of trying to overcome thousands of years of dysfunctional culture and history.

[rse]

Karzai has asked all US troops to leave countryside and go to the bases. Which are not designed to house the troops. Military may need those C-17s and C-130s that the campaign now needs for all the events.

FrontPage had an article yesterday I did not link because this issue is hard for me. It said the village where the massacre occurred was a major Taliban distribution center where the residents were particularly good at manipulating the current ROEs. They would fire on soldiers and then retreat to the houses knowing no one could return fire. The absurd ROEs deserve more widespread notice.

Jane-something else for the radio?

[Clarice]

I'm with Iggy. It was BTW the original plan for Iraq and Aghanistan.

[Jack is Back!]

You hear it here first: If we tap SPR just to mollify pricing at the pump then the price of crude will rise proportionally and all it will do is make consumers more miserable. History does tend to repeat itself from time to time especially when you have a doofus in charge of the throttle.

[Ignatz]

--fdcol, I remind you that separation of church and state is a relatively new concept even in Western cultures.--

Perhaps clarice, but even in it's most misguided form Christianity has never been close to the idea that the church is the state as it is in Islam.
"Render unto Caesar" established the difference from the get go.
One could plausibly argue that the most egregious cases of church/state union in the West have been the product of the state consummating a forced marriage with a reluctant church, not vice versa.

[Jane]

Isn't Cameron supposed to be a conservative?

[fdcol63]

"I remind you that separation of church and state is a relatively new concept even in Western cultures."

Clarice, indeed. Arrived at, along with other Western notions like "peaceful conflict resolution", only after centuries of religious strife and wars, the Reformation, the Renaissance, and other Western history.

We haven't yet seen Islam go through many of these same phases. It is still stuck largely in the 13th Century.

If you think Europe and the West was violent as it went through these phases, I don't think we can imagine the horrors to come when Islam goes through them.

And I don't want to be a dhimmi when it does.

[Jack is Back!]

More St. Paddy's Day preparatory humor (this one is from a friend in Northern Ireland)

In a tiny village on the Irish coast lived an old lady, a virgin, and very proud of it

Sensing that her final days were rapidly approaching, and desiring to make sure everything was in proper order when she dies, she went to the town's undertaker (who also happened to be the local postal clerk) to make proper "final" arrangements. As a last wish, she informed the undertaker
that she wanted the following inscription engraved
on her tombstone:

"BORN A VIRGIN, LIVED AS A VIRGIN, DIED A VIRGIN"

Not long after, the old maid died peacefully.

A few days after the funeral, as the undertaker/postal clerk went to prepare the tombstone that the lady had requested, it became quite apparent that the tombstone she had selected was much too small for the wording that she had chosen.

He thought long and hard about how he could fulfill the old maid's final request considering the very limited space available on the small piece of stone.

For days, he agonized over the dilemma, but finally his
experience as a postal worker allowed him to come up with what he thought was the appropriate solution to the problem.

The virgin's tombstone was finally completed and duly engraved, and it read as follows:

"RETURNED UNOPENED"

[narciso]

Nominally, Jane, he's BP and McKinsey's man,

[Threadkiller]

WTF!!

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2012/mar/15/border-patrol-agent-injured-car-explosion/

" Border Patrol agents received a call just before midnight that a car was driving the wrong way on Interstate 8 near east of Buckman Springs, Acting Assistant Chief Patrol Agent Justin De La Torre said.

An agent spotted the car and pulled it over on Old Highway 80 after a short pursuit, De La Torre said. As the agent got out and started to approach the vehicle it blew up.

“Once he got up to the driver’s side door the vehicle exploded,” De La Torre said.

The agent was knocked back from the blast and suffered burns. The car was engulfed in flames and the driver died."

Hmmm....

[Ignatz]

--It turned out they were serious about none of them.--

That, despite all of the awful crap Barry has done domestically, is the most disgraceful chapter of his sad, sorry presidency.
To cynically agree to a surge half the size requested knowing full well it would be inadequate and that when the time came, after he had received whatever benefit he would from not defying the generals completely, that he was going to cut and run anyway is repulsive. It can only be seen as the intentional sacrifice of good men for a cause he knew he didn't believe in and had no intention of even seeing through, merely for his own political benefit; a desire not to be seen as weak on defense but only as political theater.
Give me a hot headed, execrable animal like LBJ who may have been a disgusting fool and a bully but at least apparently believed in the sacrifice he was ordering men into
That kind of stupidity is preferable to the calculating insincere heartlessness that values soldiers lives by how many points each one adds up to in Barry's internal polling.

[narciso]

Yes, that piece seems a little dubious to me, as well, it might be like Haditha, but I wouldn't go there just yet,

[Janet]

TK,
Like TC suggested - hopefully they took a picture of the dead driver for future ad campaigns..."Tips from Former Jihadis"

[Ignatz]

Short article by Kudlow describing the brilliant Bill Isaacs' concerns about Dodd Frank bankrupting community banks and the Fed's stress tests being a drag on the economy.

[Gus]

All the talk in the world vis a vis Afghanistan, winning, withdrawing or losing means nothing.
Obama doesn't care. Nothing Obama does..NOTHING....isn't designed to give Obama more power to affect.............FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE to America.

aka. Marxism.
Everything Obama does is for Obama.

[jimmyk]

It was BTW the original plan for Iraq and Aghanistan.

Yep, that's the much-maligned "Bush Doctrine." Or at least part of it. Unfortunately Bush himself drifted away from it.

[Old Lurker]

rse...I tried to link the LUN for you last night from my iPhone but that proved hopeless.

The title "Solyndra in the Classroom" should get your interest. Perhaps you ghosted it?

[Chubby]

gosh, I thought that the Bush Doctrine was that setting up modern democracies in former tyrannies was key to the spreading of democracy

[Chubby]

the underlying thesis being that democracies don't war with each other

[Ben Franklin]

Life is tough, but it's easier if you're ignorant.
--Sgt. Stryker

FIFY, CT

[Ben Franklin]

"Agree or disagree with GWB's Iraq or Afghanistan policies, he clearly acted in what he thought was the best interests of the US. Of many things that sicken me about this current POTUS, the most sickening is playing domestic politics with the lives of our military men and women."

TC; I've never seen you so wrong, on so many assumptions, in the same graf.

[Threadkiller]

More for Gus:

"They can't find two natural born citizens out of 300 million people?"
http://www.colony14.net/id625.html

[Thomas Collins]

So, BFF, from your post, is your view that: (i) GWB clearly acted in a manner he thought was not in the best interests of the US, (ii) I am not sickened by this POTUS, (iii) Obama is not playing domestic politics with the lives of US military personnel? I am having trouble figuring out what in my statement is wrong and what your views are on the topics on which I have erred.

[Sandy Daze]

Again, peak oil is a myth. Some are starting to notice.

OMG~ABO,
Sandy

[Ben Franklin]

". Are we getting our money's worth?"

Well, Appalled, we spent a Trillion on Iraq and now we have like, a couple of bucks for the Pak/Karzai bloc.

We made most of our baby steps in Iraq based on bribes.
Now all we have to spend is good will, and we see how that's working out.

The real problem is Pakistan. Iran, not so much.

[Ms. Trish]

OT: The University of Dayton Arena was not sold out for the Tuesday night First Four game that Obama and Cameron attended.

"Last year, the first night’s crowd was 10,025.This year - even with President Barack Obama, British Prime Minster David Cameron and Ohio governor John Kasich in the crowd - the first night crowd was 8,510." (Arena capacity is 13,435)

It should be noted that attendance was down for both Tuesday and Wednesday nights' games.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2012/03/15/first_four_attendance_down_a_b.html?cxtype=feedbot

[Clarice]

I disagree Iggie with your view of history. I recall as late as the late 1800's an Italian nanny took her charge a young Jewish boy to church and had him baptized after which the entire force of the Italian govt was brought to bear to rip the child from his parents and turn him over to the care and education of the church.

As late as the pre WWII period in Germany the state played a role in the selection of Bishops.

Examples abound.

It was in the US and perhaps post revolutionary France that the concept of the separation of the two first appeared and even then in the US it was not what it has now become.

[jimmyk]

Chubby, I think it morphed into that, but initially it was "Either you're with us or against us," going back to his post-9/11 speech, declaring that governments had to take responsibility for harboring terrorists.

[Thomas Collins]

And I am having trouble understanding why you are classifying the statements as assumptions. You and I might look at the record and disagree about the motives of GWB and Obama, and what might sicken one of us might not sicken the other. But these are not assumptions. I wouldn't even say that my classical liberalism and your communitarian anarchism are assumptions. That is, they are more in the line of views of politics that might be based in whole or in part on other assumptions, but they are not assumptions.

In any event, I never answered your query awhile back on why I didn't include the CIA in my analysis of Iranian policy. I have to confess that I have no idea what the center of gravity of the CIA's approach to Iran is, or whether there even is a center of gravity. There are probably differing viewpoints. In any event, I think it would be a step up for our covert action capability if the CIA could influence Iranian internal policy.

[Ben Franklin]

"he clearly acted..."

"the most sickening is playing domestic politics with the lives of our military men and women."

Two assumptions you can't support, TC.

[jimmyk]

Of course, as Sarah tried to explain to the idiot Charlie Gibson, "Bush Doctrine" didn't have a clear or constant meaning.

[rse]

Thanks ol. I do think we are spending far more on education than we are getting back. Part of what I do is explain why.

It really is a stunning story. Thanks goodness for arrogant educrats who told me more than they knew because they simply assume no one can figure out what isn't written down. They do not realize if you know history you can recognize things by function and effect and that then gets you to what is written down.

I think that is a more apt title than the author realizes.

[Extraneus]

He drank the Kool Aid, TC, and it wasn't even meant for him. (He was supposed to help convince the rubes, not be one.)

[Sandy Daze]

Peak oil ? --a myth.

Scarce Oil? U.S. Has 60 Times More Than Obama Claims

ABO~OMG,
Sandy

[rse]

Back when I was GC of a public company I got some great opportunities at the 96 Olympics. Great seats next to the Australian team at the Closing ceremony but another was to use a corporate the box at the Women's gymnastics individual final. Chelsea decided to attend which created a security nightmare with long delays to get in.

I can only imagine what having BO and Cameron did to get into that Dayton arena.

[Thomas Collins]

Whoa! You think two mistakes are the most I've ever made in a statement? You're getting soft, BFF! :-))

[Ignatz]

--I disagree Iggie with your view of history.--

clarice,
I didn't say the state and the church weren't improperly entwined. I only stated that the usual assumption, that the church was the aggressor against a defenseless state, is often quite incorrect and my thesis is supported by this;

As late as the pre WWII period in Germany the state played a role in the selection of Bishops.

The worst abuses of the church were not pious popes or Christians leading the state astray, it was tyrants like Isabella in Spain not only using the church but installing her own operatives within it.
The worst popes were politicians serving the state first and the church second, or more likely not at all.

[Ben Franklin]

"You're getting soft, BFF! :-))"

That's about the worst thing one can say to a man of my age...:>)

[Ignatz]

--It was in the US and perhaps post revolutionary France that the concept of the separation of the two first appeared.--

No. As I pointed out "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" is where the concept first appeared and Paul amplified it by exhorting Christians to submit to civil authority not to usurp or dominate it.
That many Christian's failed at those fundamental instructions shouldn't disguise the concept's origins.

[Sue]

Rush is playing portions of Obama's energy speech and I am stunned, once again, at the contempt Obama has for me. His voice is dripping with sarcasm. And yes, I take it personally since I am a conservative and he is talking about conservatives.

[Neo]

After energy speech, Obama orders brisket sandwich, fries, two slabs of baby back ribs from Maryland BBQ restaurant, pays cash.

First Lady unavailable for comment.

[Sue]

Ben someone or the other filling in for Mark Davis this morning on WBAP had a man on from the National Association for Gun Rights. All of the Republican candidates have returned, answered, their gun rights survey, with the exception of Mitt Romney (and the now defunct Jon Huntsman). They have contacted the Romney campaign to see why Romney hasn't returned it to them, but so far, no response. Santorum returned his on January 3rd.

Mitt Romney is not willing to go on record about gun rights. Something to ponder.

[Rick Ballard]

Sandy,

Stop that. Everybody knows that Peak Oil is just as real as the Skydragon or Keynesian economics or China's fantastic ability to support the world's economy all by itself or the truly eternal nature of EUtopia.

Those are facts, Sandy, and you can read about the nature of those facts in the only truly impartial and truthful newspaper in the world every single day. If you subscribe, you'll stop spouting that nonsense and enter a new world. After a year you'll be ready to matriculate at Pitzer College where your real education can begin.

Face it, Sandy, your eyes have been lying to you since the first time you opened them. Just ask Dr. Dana Ward of Pitzer College if you won't believe me. He has immaculate Ivy League credentials and his every utterance is proof of their inestimable value.

[Sue]

Neo,

And says "Hot sauce got to be hot".

[Threadkiller]

"First Lady unavailable for comment torment."

[pagar]

Extraneus, Thanks for the 11:22 link. There are hundreds of these types of stories almost on a daily basis. Now we're getting even more thanks to the Obama regime efforts to turn the Middle East over to them.

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/03/15/egypt-islamist-mp-calls-for-amputations-and-crucifixion-of-criminals-based-on-sharia-law/

Here's some people the Obama regime is promoting.

"In Ireland, for example, the U.S. Embassy in Dublin recently sponsored a seminar ostensibly designed to help Muslim immigrants increase their influence within the Irish business and financial communities."

"The opening speech at the event was delivered by Imam Hussein Halawa of the Islamic Cultural Center of Ireland, despite the fact that leaked U.S. State Department cables show that the U.S. government has known for many years that Halawi is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and serves as the right-hand man of the radical Egyptian cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi."

LUN

Meanwhile, we're told that we need to worry about Santorum babbling about "porn
is bad".

[Threadkiller]

Rick, is "skydragon" global warming?

[NK]

BenF@12:20- you're getting some fundemental things wrong here. Are Iran and Pakistan terrorist both threats to the USA -- yes. Pakistan is a threat b/c the government cannot control the jihadists within Pakistan. In Iran the Mullahs ARE the threat. The two are very different, and the Mullahs are clearly the more immediate and dangerous threat. 'Bam has always gotten this completely wrong-- it finally sunk in the the last few months-- he was mugged by reality.