Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman Claims Second Victim

Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman has claimed its second victim: in his attempt to rationalize his odd (but fashionable!) sense of justice, Atlantic senior editor Robert Wright has lost his mind.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the facts of the case are basically as Zimmerman's defenders claim: Zimmerman killed Martin because Martin was beating him up and Zimmerman felt his life was in danger. Even so, it seems to me that Zimmerman should do jail time for killing Martin.

Here are some things we know about the case:

1) A man with a gun pursued an unarmed teenager who had done nothing wrong.

I am going to clean up this post and re-present it, but the gist is, Zimmerman's initial and final locations are near the Retreat at Twin Lakes clubhouse; the location consistent with his verbal directions to his parked car was near the final shooting.  So what kind of "pursuit" are we talking about if Zimmerman scarcely moved?

2) The man with the gun initiated a confrontation with the teenager. I realize that we don't know exactly how any fight between Zimmerman and Martin started. And we never will, because only Zimmerman knows the details, and he's not exactly unbiased. But by my lights, if you pursue an innocent, law-abiding citizen, thereby giving him or her reason to believe that you mean them harm -- and reason to conclude that their self-defense may require fighting--you have initiated a confrontation. Zimmerman will presumably depict his role in the encounter as passive. That testimony should count for roughly nothing, but in any event I'd say that even if it's true, he still initiated a confrontation just by pursuing a guy in the dark until he caught up with him.

So Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by walking in the same neighborhod as Trayvon Martin.  There is no serious dispute that Zimmerman had the legal right to an evening stroll in his own neighborhood - the suggestion from the police dispatcher that he not pursue Martin was not some sort of a lawful order he must obey, and in any case, Zimmerman claims to have complied (an assertion backed by the map.)

But enough about Zimmerman; let's talk about me.  I regularly walk in my neighborhood - it is great exercise, and I have the old BP to worry about.  From time to time I find myself (due no doubt to my vigor) overtaking other pedestrians.

I am not a physically daunting specimen but I do give off a certain Eastwood-esque vibe of mystery and danger.  OK, some say it is more of a Sean Connery thing, but Clint works for me, and I digress.  Per the new Wright rules of engagement, if I am overtaking some ardent feminist well versed in the theories of male violence, I have every reason to expect a face full of mace as I approach her, yes?  This is America, I have threatened her by overtaking her, and what should I expect? 

In a different world, I might hope that she would address her fears by running into the street to flag down a car, or calling for help, or dialling 911, or running to a nearby house and pleading for assistance against my imagined depredations but in WrightWorld a face full of mace is her logical response.

Wow.  If you feel threatened, punch back hard!  Is this what Democrats are teaching in diversity training these days? 

More, my emphasis:

Still, do we want to live in a society where somebody with a gun can chase down an unarmed, law-abiding citizen, presumably scaring them to death, then kill them after a fight unsurprisingly breaks out--and still get off scot-free? Do you want every wannabe cop in America reading that this sort of thing is legal? Do you think America's actual cops want to live in a world like that?

Tough questions.  Do we want to live in a world where every pedestrian is maced or shot every time a woman unsurprisingly feels threatened?  Do we want to live in a world where young men are encouraged to beat down anyone that worries them rather than - just thinking out loud here - use their cell phone to call 911, or call their dad and ask him to step out on the porch, or just hoof it in the opposite direction; all these strategies were open to Trayvon Martin and, scared to death though he may have been, he wasn't scared enough to use his cell phone or to stay away from Zimmerman.

And I am only talking about pedestrians; what sort of dystopia would WrightWorld create for joggers?  Is that young guy coming up behind me just getting a bit of cardio, or is launching himself for an assault?  Better hose him down with mace pre-emptively, and deliver a little bootwork to make sure!  Bob Wright can lead the protests on my behalf.

Well - normally Mr. Wright is a sensible if unrelenting lefty.  Perhaps after a moment's reflection he will get over his goal of reenacting the Hunger Games on the mean streets of every city in America and come home to common sense.  And here in CommonSenseville, when a person feels threatened by a stranger fights are still surprising  Why?  Because there are many intermediate steps available to people who feel threatened that are appropriate and even more effective at preventing violence than punching the threat in the face, jumping on top of them and beating their head against the sidewalk.

I am planting my flag on the previously uncontroversial ground that says I can walk my neighborhood and even exchange words with strangers without expecting violence.

CLASSIC SNEER FROM A STATIST:  Yes, I noticed this:

[Zimmerman] knew he was violating the rules of the Neighborhood Watch game...

Yeah, there had been thirteen police incidents in January and February (eight burglaries, two bike thefts and three simple assaults); it would be much less of a game if the elderly Mrs. Wright lived there, but the young Mr. Wright feels safe in a world where, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.  Because he will punch out the lights of anyone who threatens him.  Unsurprisingly.

The Neighborhood Watch game - are we having fun yet?

COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?  What that?  Did I ever think I'd see the day when liberals would be rationalizing this sort of street thuggery?  Well, it's not thuggery if the cause is just, which is why the Occupy violence is rarely reported.  Still, when Mr. Wright discovers that, per his voter registration, George Zimmerman is a Democrat and self-identified Hispanic, I don't want to be his chiropractor (hmm, the risk is whiplash, not spine-stiffening... my Pesci-esque air of mystery is taking over.)

Comments

[Threadkiller]

TM, be fair. In the scenario you presented there is no mention of you wearing a hoodie.

It is like comparing apples to racists.

[Jim,MtnView,Ca,USA]

Obama reelection hoodies no longer on sale. LUN

MSM notes you can also buy hoodies from the Mitt web site, presumably Repubs must be just as race-baiting as Dems, so there.

[Captain Hate]

So does that mean Saint Trayvon wouldn't look like El JEFe's son?

[Threadkiller]

They have the angles covered, Jim.

Martin was heading over to his dad's girlfriend's house while his dad wasn't there? And according to a link Sue posted yesterday, when Martin did not come home, the dad called Martin's cousin to see if they were together. The cousin said he had not seen Martin.

I wonder how surprised the dad was that horndawg hoodie was on his way to a private lesson.

[JeffC]

looks too me like a wannabe thug ran into a better armed thug that night ... felt disrespected, started swinging and paid the price ...

[Clarice]

Tsk. TM , did you really expect better reasoning from Sullivan's boss?

[bunkerbuster]

Wright said Zimmerman PURSUED Martin and the calls from his cell phone AND Zimmerman's own testimony show that to be the case.
So under Florida's Stand Your Ground law, he had every right to use lethal force against Zimmerman.
That's why the AUTHOR OF THE LAW State Rep. Dennis Baxley said it would protect the victim, not the killer.
NEIL CONAN: ``And again, we don't know all the details of the confrontation. What makes you think that Stand Your Ground does not apply to George Zimmerman's defense?''
BAXLEY: ``Well, simply because if you carefully read the statute, which most of the critics have not, and read the legislative analysis, there's nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue or confront other people. If anything, this law would have protected the victim in this case; it could have.''
So, no, Tom, Wright's point has nothing to do with people "walking" their neighborhood.

[qrstuv]

Wright, like so many others, is so paralyzed by the *idea* of a gun that he *assumes* the gun was visible and was a factor in Trayvon Martin's reaction.

"A man with a gun pursued an unarmed teenager"

"The man with the gun initiated a confrontation with the teenager."

"somebody with a gun can chase down an unarmed, law-abiding citizen, presumably scaring them to death, "

And it doesn't even make sense. Does Wright really think Martin would throw a fist at a guy he knew was armed?

The word "gun" just turns his (Wright's) brain off.

[Stave]

Well, I am not an ardent feminist, but I am well versed in the realities of male violence because when I was in college I was followed and sexually assaulted, so I'd just as soon you don't make light of such things.

It's why I carry a gun and became a big supporter of gun rights. I agree with your take on this incident though. Of course men have the right to walk the street and even to speak to other people while out.

If you approach me in a parking lot don't be surprised if I'm not polite to you though.

[GMAX]

Give it a rest bunky, and have some skittles.

[GMAX]

Robert Wright was the foil of choice of Mickey Kaus for awhile. Kaus would make Wright look like a fool, and even better, Wright would never even get the joke!

Arrest Zimmerman for what? Walking while white ( white Hispanic to get the lingo absolutely perfect ).

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

I am not a physically daunting specimen but I do give off a certain Eastwood-esque vibe of mystery and danger. OK, some say it is more of a Sean Connery thing, but Clint works for me, and I digress.

I have no doubt you represent both esques, but I must say this gave me the first laugh of the day. You rock TM!

[Ignatz]

In a week this ginned up story will have joined the Sandra Fluke imbroglio in the memory hole of failed left wing gotches.

[bunkercatamite]

blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said blah blah blah Wright said

[Ignatz]

--I am not a physically daunting specimen but I do give off a certain Eastwood-esque vibe of mystery and danger. OK, some say it is more of a Sean Connery thing, but Clint works for me, and I digress.--

Maybe I should do another one of those posts of 8 by 10 movie star glossies and ask the people to vote for whom TM would be most likely to be mistaken for.

BTW TM if you're doin the Zimmerman/Eastowwd thing out on your walk you're gonna need a 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world (it wasn't, even at the time, but I digress too) and don't forget to squint.

[Melinda Romanoff]

BC-

Even the second time it's pretty funny.

[Englewood Peoria]

Stick with the news from the local affiliates. You'll come off less like a dumbass, posing as a intellectual "just asking questions".

Martin's father (or his father's girlfriend) lives in the subsdivision as Zimmerman. They were out to dinner and Martin was home with another sibling. (Orlando Sentinal and Local News affiliate).

I think the general perception is, since Martin was a scary looking Black guy (Gold teeth, and tats, Twitter page full of weed references and misspellings of the words bitches), that he likely instigated the confrontation, and that Zimmerman was well within reason.

It also appears we are "suspicious" of MSM angles that don't fit the narrative that we want, and embracing the ones we can wrap our heads around: (Scary, suspicious looking Black guy gets justifiably shot after he got kicked out of school for weed residue, and he steals stuff).

A better question would be how did Zimmerman get into the backyard (In a live interview 2 female witnesses put the fight and shooting in their backyard) on an evening stroll... "cursing f'ing @ssholes and punks", if he was not following the kid?

And if Trayvon was such a scary looking Black guy (with tats, gold teeth, on suspension for having an empty weed bag (HORRORS), why did Z follow him?

Because he had the gun. I'm also hearing from the Right how Z got jumped from behind, when the local affiliate has Trayvon walking up to his face and punching him.

You guys are worse than the MSM. Now we are posting thug pics from the wrong FB pages.

You're making the issue more nuanced than it needs to be. A guy with a record for being a hot head and having felony charges (how did he get a CCW) sees a kid who looks different from his other Black friends. Follows him, taking comfort in the fact that he's armed, but doesn't plan on using it. Maybe flashing it if need be. He follow and confronts the kid, who is also a hot head, who kicks his ass. He panics, and shoots the kid.

The arresting cop thought Z's account was BS. We will hear more on that in days to come. The kid was an unarmed 6'0" 160 kid (Not a 6'4 raving linebacker). AND WAS UNARMED. The shooter (An adult who should have better reasoning skills than a 17 y/o kid) following the kid was told "You don't need to that". He ignored it. The END

[Ignatz]

That load of unsubstantiated assumptions and cherry picking wouldn't even play in Peoria.

[qrstuv]

EP, link please.

But I don't expect we'll see you here ever again.

[Captain Hate]

Can we please have some threads not about Saint Trayvon? It attracts the weak minded.

[Melinda Romanoff]

But there's a lot of storytelling in Englewood.

[Englewood Peoria]

Errr.. I was going to links provided by Drugde and the Orlando Sentinel. You could sit here on conservative blogs, or get off your ass and go to the local media sources.

Z was arrested, and the arresting Cop filed an affidavit (or so the report said).

I distrust the Obama Secret Service (MSM) as much as you do. The local affiliates do better work. But I'm careful not to ensconce myself in echo chambers. Try it.

The interview the 2 women gave is on the internet, as well as Zimmerman's arrest history.

I also heard his father was a Magistrate judge. I have not confirmed that.

Chop chop

[Sue]

And even Englewood didn't bother to correct the 3 days in the morgue unidentified. Makes the police look bad. But daddy realized it made daddy and mama look worse so he set about correcting it just this past weekend. I understand they are grieving parents, but come on. Trademark your child's name? Allow people to believe the police didn't bother with a black kid to stir up outrage? Maybe if they had been parenting their child, he would still be alive.

[bunkerbuster]

Captain Bigot: I don't blame you one bit for being tired of the Trayvon story. The identity conservative logic bubble's a little too leaky, so facts and reason keep seeping in...

[Threadkiller]

I was working on a rewrite of Elton John's "Levon."

All I have so far is:

Trevon..Trevon liked his hoodie...

And:

When the New York Times said, "God is dead And the war's begun,...

[Sue]

You could sit here on conservative blogs, or get off your ass and go to the local media sources.

I found the interview with Trayvon's father in People, not a local media source. The one where he said the police came to his house right after he called and reported his son missing. Not three days later but the next morning. And the police were publicly identifying Trayvon on the day after the shooting. But no one bothered to correct that story, until the parents started taking heat for not looking for the child for 3 days. Now they are correcting it.

[Threadkiller]

EP, you say the dad was at dinner with the girlfriend and Trayvon was supposed to be with a sibling at the girlfriends house.

Sue's link yesterday said the dad stated he knew there was trouble the next morning when he realized Trayvon did not come home the night before.

Does not jive.

I hope Sue will repost that link.

[Threadkiller]

Hi Sue!

[Captain Hate]

It's SAINT TRAYVON, imbecile; have you no respect for the purity of his life and what a role model he is? And stop using that retro-term "Afro-American" or do you watch a continual stream of blaxploitation movies from the early 70s on your mother's betamax player.

[Ignatz]

--But I'm careful not to ensconce myself in echo chambers. Try it.--

--The identity conservative logic bubble's a little too leaky, so facts and reason keep seeping in...--

Could you knuckleheads please coordinate your messages a little better? Is it hermetically sealed or leaky? Come on.

It's the particularly weak mind which always assumes someone who views things differently could not possibly have had access to the same information they have because anyone who had would obviously believe exactly what they do because they're always right. QED.
Dipshits.

[DebinNC]

I think Janet's sign got Instalaunched...7th one down. Yay, Janet!!!

[Sue]

Good morning, TK. The only thing I found on local media, Orlando Sentinel, to be exact, correcting the misinformation provided by ABC News was a timeline where they state the police were publicly identifying Trayvon on the day after the incident. But the internet and news agencies and race hustlers are still using 3 whole days in the morgue. Was it Mark Twain that said a lie is half way around the world before truth even gets his pants on?

[narciso]

These Instalaunches are some what counterproductive, because of the
nazgul infestation, my fishwrap has
been at the forefront of misinforming
and ginning up the 'Two Minute Hate'

[daddy]

Don't know why we have to get stories of horrible black on white violence in America from the British Press, but here you go:

Couple met and married within a month and stayed together for 65 years... only to be parted after home invader beat wife to death.

Am sure CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NY Times, CNN, Reverend Al, Spike Lee, Jessie Jackson etc, will be all over this story in an instant, especially since the alleged perp looks so much like the son Obama might have had.

[Englewood Peoria]

I'll throw you lazy bastards a bone. But if you want to play the role of scoffers, you got to be better informed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9170588/Trayvon-Martin-murder-detective-wanted-to-charge-George-Zimmerman.html (Came up with pics of the "Thug Martin, and is conservative)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

"As the Orland Sentinel reports, Zimmerman got out of his car and followed Trayvon as he walked back to the home of his father's girlfriend after picking up snacks at a local convenience store.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1qQ2J1M2e"

The witness/property owner interview from the local affiliate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Rf4G0JOOk

Zimmerman's criminal records are sealed. As a former criminal defense counsel, an adult having their records sealed is damned near impossible

http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/

2nd page of the report
http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/2/

Orange County Court Records. (go to case records. Put in the name "George Zimmerman" - 11 total reports. His start from the 4th one down and continues to end of page. It comes up 7 reports for George M/Michael Zimmerman.)

A couple of domestic violence charges and a Felony resisting arrest... Now we know why he couldn't get on with the police dept... Again, I ask, how did he get a CCW?

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx

[Sue]

I guess local media means local to where you are? The Daily Mail? Either we rely on local media accounts or not. Which is it?

[narciso]

The Daily Mail relied on the Orlando Sentinel,
as it has relied on other publications,like the AD News, even after the storyhas been debunked

[Ignatz]

You do understand that if one is not only not convicted of anything but not even tried that person is presumed innocent, correct?
Here's a link for your lazy bastard ass which I found in about ten seconds which clearly answers your killer question about how he got a CCW.
Bring better dipshits.

[Danube of Thought]

Minus 13 at Raz today.

Leads Romney by 1.

[Cecil Turner]

I love it. Nobody to blame for the altercation. "A fight broke out." Happens all the time, usually when it's raining.

But this is even better, a self-parody that beats the opposition to absurdum:

Wright said Zimmerman PURSUED Martin and the calls from his cell phone AND Zimmerman's own testimony show that to be the case.
So under Florida's Stand Your Ground law, he had every right to use lethal force against Zimmerman.

Even if we allow "pursuit" as a justification for a lethal attack, surely the subsequent attack justifies a reciprocal right to self-defense. No? Or is it a matter of "I called it first" on the right to self-defense?

This is actually getting to be somewhat amusing, in an eye-sprainworthy sorta way. Which is its own tragedy.

[Jack is Back!]

Since I am the only one here (beside bgates, I believe) who's local media is Orlando and all the TV stations including the Hispanic ones, I think I know more about what is reported by them than Bubu and EP. Have no idea where EP is getting his "local" material but its not Orlando.

BTW, Zimmerman was almost charged the night of the murder. The Sanford Police recommended he be charged with manslaughter but the States Attorney for Seminole County decided not to go forward at that time. A little local news input that can be verified at this link.

[Specter]

Even more...who cares if a police officer felt charges should be filed. His job is to investigate and put together what "probable cause" he believes exists. It is the State's Attorney and the Judge who actually make the decision as to whether or not probable cause exists for an arrest - and whether or not a case can successfully be made. Sorry Englewood - another weak argument from someone who purports to know how the law works.

[DebinNC]

The Daily Mail contained a claim I found very odd in the Miami Herald article two days ago:
..........................................
"Ben Crump, a lawyer for Trayvon’s parents, said that they ‘never heard anything like this about a bag of jewellery [and "burglary tool" screwdriver found in Trayvon's bookbag in Oct.]….And anyway, it’s completely irrelevant to what happened February 26. ‘They never heard this, and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?'"
............................................
TM noted yesterday that Ben Crump is the Al Sharpton of FL, always on the lookout for deep-pockets to mine. How much deeper does it get than the Miami-Dade School System and its responsibility to notify parents of their child's possible criminal involvement? Instead of outrage at Krop HS's egregious failure to inform the Martins of such a huge red flag, if Mr. Martin is being truthful, Crump publicly says, "No biggie"? Doesn't make sense, unless Crump knows the family is lying about not being informed.

[Mustang0302]

--I am not a physically daunting specimen but I do give off a certain Eastwood-esque vibe of mystery and danger. OK, some say it is more of a Sean Connery thing, but Clint works for me, and I digress.--

I can just picture TM strolling along - a loose-limbed, powerful stride, squinted eyes on the horizon, scanning for threats - with jazzy theme music playing in his mind's background...Monty Norman or Lalo Schifrin: "I'm not a threat to you at present. I'm relaxed, polite and professional - but I have a plan to kill everyone I meet. Oh, and yes...this is in fact a very nice suit."

Everyone has their own theme music playing in the background (sometimes in the mind, sometimes via ipod...sometimes broadcast as noise pollution). It's how we see ourselves centered in our surroundings, and defines our mood, present objective, and motivations. Mine's usually a Sousa march or something from John R. Cash.

Heroes and zeroes, alert or oblivious, up-to-no-good or pristinely angelic, completely innocent or "open to opportunities," watch your fellow Americans and you can guess the personal theme music rolling through their minds by the way they swagger, diddy-bop, stalk, or prowl their way through life. The really annoying ones leave nothing to doubt...100dB thumping urban bass, or lib-terrifying hick banjo twanging (appropriately blasting from a corresponding vehicle...lowered Caprice, or gun-rack equipped F-250).

The "vibe" is not just personal...we expect observers to pick up on our theme, as though we're broadcasting our capabilities, intentions, and objectives...for good or evil. Tragically, not everyone's good at either transmitting and/or receiving an accurate message.

Examples:

TM - James Bond/Dirty Harry theme.

cleo - Three Blind Mice theme from The Three Stooges.

L7 - Pretentious chamber music from NPR.

Sylvia - Pure screeching, earsplitting electronic feedback.

Speculate: What personal theme music do we think was playing in the minds of Trayvon and George, respectively, that night leading up to their first face-to-face (or face-to-back, however they first came within arm's reach) meeting?

[Cecil Turner]

Wow, a UK repeat of an Orlando Sentinel story is now trotted out as dispositive? What if I can find a Pravda reference to the Telegraph story? Would that be even more authoritative?

BTW, the incident report was already linked. (here it is again.) The charge was listed as: "HOMICIDE-NEGLIG MANSL-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT." That's so yesterday. (Nice framing, though: "murder" detective wanted to charge "manslaughter.")

[Threadkiller]

"Shaft" was playing for both of them.

[Captain Hate]

Hey Mustang, here's another musical rec for you: Eilen Jewell.

[Englewood Peoria]

Sigh....

Jackson, Shaprton, Spike Lee, NBPP (All of whom are dumbasses and race pimp whores).

The parent's interivew after the "Advisers" came on the scene should be taken with a grain of salt. They're grieving parents, but the circus has begun (i.e. trademarking kid's name and likeness)

Whether he sat in the morgue for three days or three weeks is irrelevant to my point, which is going over your heads.

All of the above are after the fact.

The BIG story angle I was considering was.... What if the shooter, with a history of minor issues, as evidenced by the records, was protected by his father "a Magistrate/Superior court judge"...

Was able to get out of skirmishes b/c of his father's pull (sealed criminal recs as an adult)

Couldn't get on with a local police dept (Daddy's reach doesn't go that far)

Played cop and it went to far. I know a few children of judges. Most are good, but they ones who are bad, usually get in trouble from an attitude of entitlement.

To me, the Race issue is secondary. An unarmed kid, any kid regardless of color, gets shot, and the killer walks out jail. No blood alcohol test, no forensic test, no gun shot residue test. Wears clothes out of the building, that were worn during the commission of a homicide....

And the arresting office files an affidavit calling the shooter's story BS. Also never happens, that early in a case.

Stop looking at the clowns jumping in the middle of the street, look past them at the real story that could unfold.

TM, file this away in the recesses of that deranged mind of yours for future reference. If I'm totally wrong, call me a crank. If the angle seems slightly plausible as this plays out, you heard it hear first.

[Threadkiller]

EL, I will remember you were first.

[Threadkiller]

Should have been EP.

[Englewood Peoria]

@ Cecil Turner:

So.... "HOMICIDE-NEGLIG MANSL-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT."

is not a homicide contained in the definitions of Manslaughter (Mansl)?

Sheesh....

[Specter]

I vote crank

[Porchlight]

To me, the Race issue is secondary. An unarmed kid, any kid regardless of color, gets shot, and the killer walks out jail. No blood alcohol test, no forensic test, no gun shot residue test. Wears clothes out of the building, that were worn during the commission of a homicide....

Unarmed people occasionally get shot when they try to beat the shit out of someone who has a gun. That doesn't make it murder.

Why would they do a forensic test or a gun shot residue test? There is no dispute about who fired the gun or why.

Why would blood alcohol matter? Unless you are contending that Zimmerman was driving drunk, I don't know how it would be relevant.

[DebinNC]

Wears clothes out of the building, that were worn during the commission of a homicide....

Orlando paper today reports Zimmerman's clothes were taken at the station and kept as evidence. I haven't seen any reports on what tests of Zimmerman were or weren't done that night.

[Clarice]

TM's mind is "deranged"? Who'd have guessed? Well, I suppose if he has all his cute kids walking with him while he thinks he's conveying a Clint Eastwood image.......

[Mustang0302]

Even if we allow "pursuit" as a justification for a lethal attack, surely the subsequent attack justifies a reciprocal right to self-defense. No? Or is it a matter of "I called it first" on the right to self-defense?

"Shotgun!"

"Rock, Paper, Scissors...Fist and Kel-Tec."

[Chubby]

Sue

((A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. --Mark Twain))

[Englewood Peoria]

@ Ignatz:

Now we're talking. One is ineligible for a CCW with a domestic violence beef unless:

Relief by way of federal firearm disability provision: N/A

Presidential pardon: Didn't happen

Or having records sealed or expunged. Having records expunged is one thing. Typical in first offender deals, or if probation is completed after BS anger management classes.

Sealed records are usually reserved for juveniles. In crimes relating to violence, (my personal experience in a crim. def. attorney firm) seldom happen... except in cases of the "connected".

So again, how does a man with a criminal record of multiple domestic violence beefs, and felony resisting arrest (with violence) has his records sealed?.... Allowing him to get a CCW

[DebinNC]

Why would they do a forensic test or a gun shot residue test?

If it turns out Zimmerman's claim will be that both he and Trayvon had their hands on the gun when it "went off", then that test will be pivotal. I think Zimmerman's black friend used the "gun went off" phrase in an interview yesterday.

[Cecil Turner]

is not a homicide contained in the definitions of Manslaughter (Mansl)?

The point, sheesh-boy, is that there's already more information here than the thoughtfully-provided biased summary you touted above.

And we've already beat Zimmerman's priors to death on earlier threads. There's not much "there" there, and AFAICT they're not sealed, just never charged (which is more typical than not of minor domestic abuse issues).

[Sue]

Chubby,

Well there you go. At least my misquote didn't get very far. ::grin:: Thanks.

[Englewood Peoria]

Sigh... local affiliates/news it is.

Here is the Orlando Sentinal's special section for the Trayvon Martin case. It has several separate articles, etc. Do your own leg work.

I read the Orlando Sentinel b/c we vacation there often. I know the area pretty well.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/

I didn't link t the Miami Herald b/c it is a liberal rag.

[Cecil Turner]

Now we're talking. One is ineligible for a CCW with a domestic violence beef unless:

News reports cite a judge telling 'em to stay away from each other for a year. Long since expired. Again, we hashed this one out earlier: there's no conviction needing a pardon or ongoing protection order that would trigger the Lautenberg Amendment.

[Sue]

What are the odds that EP is FedSec back for another day?

[Clarice]

The most reliable information right now is in original police records, not the quick draw Mcgraw early reports which seems to have caught so many with their pants down.
As for Zimmerman's dad being a magistrate and expunging his records or getting him off the hook, I think we are in the area of speculation. The accounts of those earlier arrests which I read indicate they were minor misdemeanors on the part of him and his then girlfriend which were dropped against both parties. Looks like it was a high drama relationship better ended and it was.

Yesterday, reportedly Bortz yammered about fake pics of Trayvon. Then, media matters swallowed and apologized to Drudge for saying the thug photos he showed of Trayvon were fakes.

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

Trademark your child's name?

What exactly does that mean? If tomorrow Smith and Wesson comes out with the "Trayvon Special" do they get a cut of the proceeds. If a parent of a newborn names his kid "Trayvon" because he is hoping for a kid that looks like Barack, do they get a fee? If Congress passes the Trayvon law which says all blacks are innocent and all hispanics are guilty, do the parents get to go to the bill signing?

Just what is the point?

[Mustang0302]

The D.C. Metro will probably run like clockwork without her, Sue.

[Specter]

Oh - and EP - believe it or not, it is not impossible for an adult to have their records sealed. It may be less probable, but the fact is it does happen. And not just because someone's "daddy" is protecting them. What about a person who has their conviction overturned by a higher court on appeal? That actually does happen (maybe not for your clients?).

[Danube of Thought]

"What if the shooter, with a history of minor issues, as evidenced by the records, was protected by his father 'a Magistrate/Superior court judge'..."

Not much doubt about. The guy's a Democrat, right?

The race issue is secondary to me, too. But if it weren't for the race issue we wouldn't be hearing from Sharpton et al., and we wouldn't be reading any more about this story than we are about, say, the murder last Saturday of a 21-year-old unarmed white student in his dorm room at Mississippi State.

[Extraneus]

The MSM could have played this story in a much more socially conscious and helpful way.

"Teen Gets Into Fight With Neighborhood Watchman, Ends Up Dead"

What would be so bad about teenage thugs having to think twice before fighting with neighborhood watchmen?

But I guess the MSM has to cater to their readership, some of whom have commented here at JOM. After reading their many dumb comments, one would have to conclude that libs simply hate the idea of respectful teens or neighborhood watchmen. I have no idea why.

Wouldn't libs have preferred the following outcome?

"Yes, sir, I'm just on my way to my dad's girlfriend's house on the next street."

I guess not, since it was never proposed as an alternative to kicking Zimmerman's ass, for whatever it was that they imagine he did to the poor lad.

[Sue]

Jane,

I think she actually is trademarking a slogan, like 'justice for trayvon' or something like that. And then they are going to start taking donations. Cha-ching.

[narciso]

True, but the Herald has bigfooted this story, and it's beat reporter, who started out in your neck of the woods, with the Plain Stealer, Capt
is always ready with the right meme.

[Sue]

The other slogan is "I am Trayvon". Moneymakers for sure.

[Danube of Thought]

Juan Williams in today's WSJ:

"But what about all the other young black murder victims? Nationally, nearly half of all murder victims are black. And the overwhelming majority of those black people are killed by other black people. Where is the march for them?"

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

The other slogan is "I am Trayvon". Moneymakers for sure.

Thank you to the most polarizing president in the history of earth!

[Captain Hate]

narc I don't remember her (covering suburban school systems is a thankless and faceless task that Mrs H did for a while so maybe she recognizes the name) although, considering the quality of the fishwrap, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Mustang0302]

"Teen Gets Into Fight With Neighborhood Watchman, Ends Up Dead"

Mayberry was safe as houses, but even Barney Fife was allowed to carry one round.

Did an openly-carried .38 (loaded or unloaded) magically transform Deputy Fife into some ominous presence?

Could Trayvon smell a gun?

Ever notice those who are the least deserving respect are the most demanding of it?

[Captain Hate]

DoT, although Juan's op-ed is generally well done he still has some difficulty with "facts" that are tenuous at best.

[narciso]

She was the police beat reporter, before they gave her the Central American beat, and she drove the department to distraction, by consistently missing the point,

[Enlightened]

**I think the general perception is, since Martin was a scary looking Black guy (Gold teeth, and tats, Twitter page full of weed references and misspellings of the words bitches), that he likely instigated the confrontation, and that Zimmerman was well within reason

WRONG - You and your ilk love to push the "conservatives are really scared of blacks" crap.

Trayvon's supporters have tried to paint him as a young, innocent, unarmed angelic child, going as far as posting images of him when he was a child, instead of real life photos he posted himself on his FB page as he emulates gangstas. And in fact he had disciplinary issues that directly related to why he was in that apt complex in the first place. Those are the facts and there is no reason they cannot or should not be discussed.

**And if Trayvon was such a scary looking Black guy (with tats, gold teeth, on suspension for having an empty weed bag (HORRORS), why did Z follow him?

WRONG - Why don YOU stick to facts? Besides your penchant for following MSM and leftwing talking points - pushing the scary black kid shit again - Zimmerman was on a Neighborhood Watch and saw someone he thought was suspicious. Since Trayvon did not live in the complex, he was not familiar to Zimmerman and so Zimmerman did what he was supposed to do while on watch - he called the cops and reported a suspicious person. He followed the suspicious person to give the cops a location. It really is that simple - someone was doing their job. I know - simple facts can be hard to grasp - try and keep up.

**A better question would be how did Zimmerman get into the backyard (In a live interview 2 female witnesses put the fight and shooting in their backyard) on an evening stroll... "cursing f'ing @ssholes and punks", if he was not following the kid

What? People are not allowed to curse assholes and fucking punks? Why not? IF they do that makes them hell bent on murder of an innocent, unarmed child? GMAFB

It's very clear that you follow the leftwing race baiting motto of "Don't you dare say anything about this innocent dead child" but make sure you vilify the -innocent until proven guilty- alleged suspect.

So predictable.

[Tom Maguire]

A better question would be how did Zimmerman get into the backyard (In a live interview 2 female witnesses put the fight and shooting in their backyard) on an evening stroll...

One person's backyard is another persons walkway or cut through. A quick glance at the Google Maps aerial view answers the "backyard" question.

And if those are the two female witnesses who saw nothing but heard everything, well, I wasn't impressed by their story. Just for example, they spoke with authority as to the appropriate sounds of pain and fear that might come from a 28 year old man or a 17 year old "child": I myself have never heard a grown man or a teenager crying during a vicious beatdown, so I lack their expertise.

(However, in a recent episode of 'Justified' I learned that Arlo Givens cried and whimpered while getting beaten as a younger man, so maybe I know more than I think... And I have always imagined that in a dire situation I would limit myself to manly groaning, so I guess if they heard something else it must have come from the younger one, right?)

[Captain Hate]

Consistently missing the point is usually the stairway to the stars at the Morning Monolith. I'm thinking she was looking for warmer winters plus the Cuyahoga County Shopping Gazette's working environment must be one of the most depressing places to find oneself this side of the Federal building.

[Threadkiller]

Good point DoT. I wonder when the Congressional White Caucus will take if the matter in Mississippi.

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

A Millersville University student is charged with kidnapping and assaulting his ex-girlfriend only hours after he allegedly stood up against violence at an on-campus rally held in honor of Florida teen Trayvon Martin.

Police tell us the victim was punched several times in the face and head, she was then kidnapped and dragged to her ex-boyfriend’s home. Fortunately her loud screams alerted neighbors who called for help.

Hours after sources say 24-year-old Millersville student Akeem Johnson stood up against violence and rallied in support of slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin, he found himself handcuffed and charged with kidnapping and brutally assaulting his ex-girlfriend.

I'm shocked!

[Mustang0302]

"Yes, sir, I'm just on my way to my dad's girlfriend's house on the next street."

Bingo. Respect, without regard to race, crime, gun, or politics.

[Englewood Peoria]

@ Cecil Turner

As for Zimmerman's priors (and Thugged-Out Martin's lack there of)

I will concede that Martin's past would show a propensity to sell weed and commit burglary (although never charged on either)

If you will concede that Zimmerman's past of domestic violence claims and violently resisting police (an armed peace officer no less) indicates that he may have some anger management/boundary issues.

As no one, including Zimmerman, indicates Martin was committing burglary when he was shot, we can concede burglary was not committed.

Although I will concede that if Zimmerman had followed him anywhere from another 10 minutes, until say.... the next 10 days that Martin was staying at his father's house while on suspension, he could have possibly caught him committing burglary.. at which the justification for shooting an unarmed person would be clearer... and we wouldn't be debating the issue.

Lastly, I will also concede that a 911 tape with the shooter saying "F'ng kids... F'ing punks" and admittedly following the kid is irrelevant to the results of that night. /sarc

[Ignatz]

--@ Ignatz:

Now we're talking. One is ineligible for a CCW with a domestic violence beef unless:

Relief by way of federal firearm disability provision: N/A

Presidential pardon: Didn't happen--

@Idiot calling himself Englewood Peoria,

I've been a federally licensed gun dealer for nearly thirty years and consequently can read and understand things like my link. So can most children. You apparently can not.
Do you have any evidence of a CONVICTION of ANY crime for Zimmerman or a current restraining order? If not then there is absolutely nothing preventing him from owning a firearm or having a concealed carry permit.

Do you see now why we're reluctant to provide a link to someone too stupid to use it responsibly?

[narciso]

This is a sample of her best work, sarc, in the LUN

[Englewood Peoria]

@ TM

True... In the interview it shows the back of their house..... I didn't see a street (where a car would be parked) in the camera's view

[Cecil Turner]

Nationally, nearly half of all murder victims are black

Nationally, more than half of all murder offenders are black. (Which is really a stunning statistic.)

The relative homicide rates are even more dramatic:

[Enlightened]

Egad - Now we have the "Dad's a Magistrate" conspiracy.

Just how many conspiracy theories will be tossed out there before we settle on the lowest common denominator - Trayvon Martin assaulted George Zimmerman because he didn't like being followed. Instead of walking away (or running as his girlfriend suggested) he confronted the man, the man had a gun and now he's dead.

[Gus]

Englewood Peoria, why don't you put down the crack pipe and stick with the facts as they are known.
Zimmerman saw, what he thought was suspicious person in his subdivision, he spoke to him, followed him for a while.
Tiny Skittles boy, punched Zimmerman, breaking his nose, and knocking him to the ground. Skittle dude, got on top of Zimmerman and smacked his head into the pavement. Skittle boy was give a hot lead injection.
No more skittle boy.

[Ignatz]

If anyone sees me answering any more of the current crop of ineducable Memorandum and Instalanched sieve-brained fools like ED here or FedSec or Ronulan steve on the latest thread please slap me.

[Danube of Thought]

Attaboy, Spike:

"SANFORD, Fla – An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin. The tweets were traced back to a man in California and the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers. The couple, aged 70 and 72, have been harassed with hate mail, been hassled by media and had scared neighbors questioning them since the tweet, their son Chip Humble told the Orlando Sentinel."

[Enlightened]

"If anyone sees me answering any more of the current crop of ineducable Memorandum and Instalanched sieve-brained fools like ED here or FedSec or Ronulan steve on the latest thread please slap me"

And me as well.

[Captain Hate]

That might be the dumbest thing Shelton's done since he featured his father's unlistenable music in his third-rate movies.

[Cecil Turner]

If you will concede that Zimmerman's past of domestic violence claims and violently resisting police (an armed peace officer no less) indicates that he may have some anger management/boundary issues.

Try reading that link I posted above. She admits hitting him in her application for a restraining order. This simply is not a case of a chronic wife-beater, nor does an uncharged resisting beef (while drinking, when he was 20, described as a "shove," six plus years ago) add up to much.

If he had issues, he hid them remarkably well. (Unlike Trayvon, whose tweets read like an up-and-coming gangsta wannabe who is rapidly learning the trade.)

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

"SANFORD, Fla – An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin.

SUE! SUE! SUE! SUE!!!!!

[Englewood Peoria]

@ Specter:

True. But an overturned case on appeal would produce caselaw, further documenting the issue.

I have no record that Zimmerman adjudicated his case before his dad, or appealed a case. Although, I think it's plausible, given the fact no one was previously hurt, that the cases would plead out and be expunged under the First Offenders Act. In which case, there would still be a record (the conviction, and the expunge).

Even in cases where there is an expungement, the docs just don't disappear into thin air. It just means you can't use it in court. There is still a file. The court issues a certificate indicating the person has no criminal record and has all of their rights restored.

Sealed criminal records, unlikely, particularly for misdemeanors, is a sticking point. I would like to know when they were sealed...

[Extraneus]

Do they have a case against ol' Spike, DoT?