Trayvon Martin - We Hear From Zimmerman's Father

Jeralyn Merritt recaps the interview of George Zimmerman's father on Fox News.  I want to stare at the map of the neighborhood and rethink his version of Zimmerman's path that night, because it seems off.  I'm rehashing yesterday, but not believing Zimmerman may motivate an investigator but it won't do much for a prosecutor, who needs actual evidence, not suspicion.

I would say the key legal takeaway from the interview is this:

He says he and everyone who knows George knows absolutely it was George crying out for help.

Well, the Martin family says they hear Trayvon as background on the 911 call which included a gunshot.

Trayvon Martin shooting 911 calls Sanford Police to release 911 calls in Trayvon Martin shooting - Orlando Sentinel

If this ever reaches the trial stage, I imagine the defense will offer a parade of Zimmerman friends and relatives claiming they hear George; the prosecutor will offer a similar parade from the Martin side that hears Trayvon.  And given the inclination of humans to hear what they want to hear, I don't allege anyone to be insincere.

Then we may hear from the FBI audio wizards.  On CSI they would crack this easily (as would Abby on NCIS).  But here is Realityville we are hearing background noise on a 911 call, not hi-fi from a sound studio; I presume we lack past tapes of Trayvon screaming in pain, and we aren't likely to have the authorities beat up George Zimmerman and record his anguished cries.

So, how credible will the FBI wizards be?  I would guess "Not very", which means we are back to reasonable doubt, but folks with relevant expertise are urged to chime in.

A renewed investigation may turn up compelling new evidence, but I don't think this 911 call will be it.

AND WHAT ABOUT HIS HEAD "INJURIES"?  I don't know - this tape is hard to argue with, and I don't see any head wounds (at 1:01 and following).  However, one of the police officers does stare at something on the back of his head, and the police report from the scene certainly mentioned blood.

 

Either the cops comenced orchestrating a massive cover-up the night of the incident for reasons which elude the critics even a month later, or that tape is just not clear enough to be conclusive.  As Truthers become Trayvoners, I sense a feast.

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN:  I noted a few days back that (if we reach a trial) the defense will probably attribute any gaps or inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story to head injuries and post-traumatic stress.  Highly plausible, and it may even be true.

WHAT ABOUT THE NEWS THAT THE COPS WANTED A MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE?

The latest headline from the Miami Herald showed dissension in the ranks:

Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case

Sanford cops asked prosecutors to file charges in the Trayvon Martin case, but the Seminole County State Attorney’s office held off.

Folks who read between the lines might have picked up on that possibility last March 17:

Investigator Chris Serino of Sanford police said Friday the agency has worked closely with prosecutors, and have not arrested Zimmerman because prosecutors have consistently told them they do not have enough evidence to win a manslaughter conviction.

That's because Zimmerman says he was defending himself, something he's allowed to do under Florida law.

More details are always welcome, but this is less newsy than one might first think.  Or at least, the real news is that ranks that were once closed are now dividing as people pick sides and engage in comprehensive CYA.

This is from the latest story:

The development is in stark contrast to the statements repeatedly made by Bill Lee, the Sanford police chief who has since stepped aside and was lambasted for his handling of the case. Lee publicly insisted that there was no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman, leading many critics to say he came across more like a defense attorney for the security buff.

Hmm - here is Lee back when he was still chief, pounding the table for Zimmerman as quoted in the NY Times on March 16:

“The evidence doesn’t establish so far that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense,” Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford police said this week, responding to why Mr. Zimmerman had not been arrested. He said he would welcome a federal investigation. “We don’t have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense at this point.”

Not to be negative, but that is a lot of negatives.  His lack of enthusiasm for the Zimmerman story as displayed here may only be visible in retrospect.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/v-fullstory/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#storylink=cpy

 

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/v-fullstory/2718130/sanford-cops-wanted-to-charge.html#storylink=cpy

Comments

[rse]

There is a desire to turn this into a "walking while black" theme that is deeply corrosive to this country.

Plus if abc led with that tape I do not trust it. Their news programs feel like pravda most nights.

[jwest]

Sorry to go off topic so quickly, but this is getting out of hand.

Watching “Morning Joe”, minutes ago Mika Brzeninski and Joe Scarborough determined that Zimmerman had no injury to the back of his head after reviewing the ABC surveillance footage at the police station. In an egregious act of editing, they clipped the film just before the officer who frisked Zimmerman noticeably looks at the back of his head.

To arrive at the conclusion of ABC and MSNBC, one must believe that the police and paramedics who responded to the scene conspired to lie in their reports about the laceration on his head. What is the media coming to?

[rse]

LUN shows that some of this media manipulation is really about rejecting that pesky 2nd amendment.

Melinda-I do not think this story is news to you.

So Fast and Furious doesn't get covered but it's Trayvon 24/7 and elderly bar owners in Illinois get arrested as well for nonlethal injuries to an admitted burglar.

[bunkerbuster]

C'mon Tom, the biggest of several holes in the Dad's retelling of his son's side of the story is how the gun mysteriously appears during the beatdown, but stays in the possession of the victim, flat on his back being severely beaten.
Was the gun in a holster? pants pocket? Waistband? Doesn't seem like a detail Zimmerman would want to be coy about if he's innocent.
If we can step away from the wingnut politics, we'll see right away that the key to this case is exactly how a guy with a gun ends up shooting an unarmed teenager.
Tattoos, empty weed baggies, online boasts and "libtards" got nothing whatsoever to do with it...

[Clarice]

I;ve worked with almost every ind of forensic evidence expert--except dna and voice identification--TM so I can't say how reliable the latter is.

OTOH if I am a prosecutor I do not waste the state's money or put a citizen in jeopardy of conviction when there's not stronger evidence than there apparently is here.

Now, a corrupt prosecutor knows that the grand jury should indict on a very low threshold -- do the police have grounds to arrest -- and can tailor the evidence presented to them so the jurors only hear a one sided view and indict. I don't see the point of this except to get the mob off her back here.

[Captain Hate]

the key to this case is exactly how a guy with a gun ends up shooting an unarmed teenager.

Law and Order Special Dumbass Unit

[JeffC]

does anyone know the address of the fathers girl friend ?

we have focused on the "path" of Zimmerman ... how about the path of Martin ?

[GMAX]

President Obama's budget was defeated 414-0 in the House late Wednesday,

Not even San Fran Nan would stand up and be counted? Zero seems to have lost his last friend.

[Janet]

What is the media coming to?

Yeah, jwest. Narciso linked a story yesterday (I can't find it) showing the selective editing of statements by Zimmerman to make him look racist. It was unbelievable.

[Clarice]

Here's some information on the way one might make the voice identification:
http://expertpages.com/news/voiceprint_identification.htm

[JoanOfArgghh]

The MSM and talking heads are all just like guys at the bar that have had a couple and feel brave and obnoxious. They're not anything like real reporters, investigators, or principled professionals. They're guys at a bar saying what they think.

People who want to be judge, jury, and executioner are drunk with imagined power. Dangerous, besotted lynch mobs will be our new system of non-CRT government. Which there seems to be enough of on our planet already.

I'm not sure what's so CRT about needing the facts before a man is convicted, but the old way of waiting for the truth to come out seems to be somehow racist, or not draw in the advertising dollars, or not whip up enough votes.

If I thought it would do something, I'd call for a boycott of every advertiser who is okay with letting MSNBC and CNN or FOX fan the flames of racism with this new low standard of "journalism."

[GMAX]

If "we" can step away from the moonbat politics for a moment, we can see right away that the narrative as put out by the moonbat's propaganda arm seems to be withering and drying up and blowing away under the harsh light of the facts. Now its clear that some skulls are thicker and more difficult to penetrate than others, and none more than our own Bunkster...

[Janet]

Here it is -

"Here’s how MSNBC reported the call:

“This guy looks like he’s up to no good. . . he looks black,” Zimmerman told a police dispatcher from his car.

What he really said:

ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
911 DISPATCHER: Okay, is this guy, is he white, black, or Hispanic?
ZIMMERMAN: He looks black."

[fdcol63]

To me, Zimmerman looks more Hispanic in the video. His skin looks a shade darker than the white officers.

This doesn't help the media narrative of "white Hispanic".

With the angle and quality of the video, and with no close-ups, it's really hard to tell the extent of Zimmerman's injuries or if there really are grass stains on the back of his jacket.

The paragraph at the video says that he received some medical attention - probably on scene, perhaps from an ambulance or paramedic crew - and that may explain why he looks "cleaner" than he may have at the scene.

[Captain Hate]

Zero seems to have lost his last friend

They don't even pretend he's anything less than 100% toxic. How many donks will be conveniently out of the state when he goes campaigning this Fall?

[Clarice]

Joan, they do seem to be for Pakistani type mobocracy, but I think like the unions in Wisconsin, they've been given enough rope to hang themselves.

Are their advertisers really aiming for the NBPP and idiot BuBu business? Or do they need the support of the targets of the media hacks' bile?

[Chubby]

GMAX

re the budget, I'm sure he still has lots of friends, it's some kind of wierd inside joke and they are playing games and putting on a performance for those not in on it

[Sixpac Abeer]

The paramedics on the scene treated Jorge before the police led him off in cuffs. A boxer can go to his corner for 60 seconds and come out looking as fresh as a daisy.

And guns just don't drop out of holsters. I have enough problems drawing mine out at the range.

My guess is bunkster has never touched a gun. That's because they are evil. Unlike skittles and tea. Thug life ain't easy.

[Steve]

I think key evidence is the gun. Was it concealed on Zimmerman or was Martin able to see it. If Martin saw the gun either before or during the fight then Zimmerman had a right to use it. If Martin had gotten the gun then he could have shot Zimmerman.

Something else ... the autopsy report on Martin. Would his fists be bruised from landing blows on Zimmerman? Was he bruised in anyway other than by gunshot?

[Cecil Turner]

Looks to me like there's a definite dark blotch with vertical line below it on the upper back of his head at about 1:09-1:11. Video is too grainy to tell what it is, but it doesn't look like hair.

A cleaned-up wound would fit pretty well.

Was the gun in a holster? pants pocket? Waistband? Doesn't seem like a detail Zimmerman would want to be coy about if he's innocent.

Yeah, there's a huge mystery. Geeze, BuBu, at least read the incident report:

Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. [emphasis added]

Next meme: Ohmigod, he reholstered the weapon. Obviously guilty!!!

[fdcol63]

I think the video showing Zimmerman under arrest, in handcuffs, at the SPD invalidates the claim made by some that there was never a REAL investigation, and it supports the claim that, at some point, a prosecutor determined that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and that there wasn't enough evidence against him to take the case to trial.

[Cecil Turner]

DC Caller has a still that shows the same apparent wound rather more clearly. (Though it's still not terribly clear.)

[NK]

To All-- I have no idea of the full story-- and neither do you. But I ask you, does someone who just shot and killed an unarmed boy tell the police the WHOLE story? Of course not; they tell the police the facts that help them show self-defense. Anybody who condemns either of this guys as being the real villain is a fraud; you can't KNOW that. The kid was probably a gangbanger wannabe, and probably looking for an open door to score a quick burglary and get some more weed-- probably. The guy was a wannabe cop, a busybody-- probably. Beyond that the whole story is not yet known. Or maybe it is?-- 2 sad wannabes meet up; there's one gun; one of them winds of dead. Maybe the story is that pathetically simple.

[NK]

winds UP dead (arghh)

[Was this a football player beating man to death?]

"the key to this case is exactly how a guy with a gun ends up shooting an unarmed teenager"

Fists aren't weapons? Hands that grasp a man's head and pounds it into concrete aren't weapons?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Steve!

No talking outside the meme!

rse-

It's Chicago. Nobody carries a gun, 'ceptin police and elected officials.

[fdcol63]

There are 4 tragedies here:

1) Trayvon Martin is dead.

2) George Zimmerman will have to live with the fact that he killed him, whether or not this was in self-defense or cold-blood.

3) This event has been manipulated and used by race-baiters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to stir up racial divisions and anger, and used by Obama and his supporters to stir up a key constituency in the Dem voter base.

4) So many Americans have been so dummed down, gullible, and easily manipulated by the MSM and these other actors that they fell for it - hook, line, and sinker.

[steve]

TM: I don't know if you or anyone has covered this angle, but had Zimmerman ever approached or confronted anyone in the numerous times he previously called 911? I know it's not proof that everything was kosher this time, but if Zimmerman had never previously confronted someone on patrol it would undercut the claim that he initiated the contact.

[Pofarmer]

"don't see the point of this except to get the mob off her back here."

Exactly right. Then what happens when the mob doesn't get the result it wants?

[Threadkiller]

Was this the scream?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_scream

[Threadkiller]

A compilation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdbYsoEasio

[Pofarmer]

One other thing. Why haven't we seen something verifying Martin's cell call t his girlfriend?

[fdcol63]

The Wilhelm Scream in various movies ... funny, really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf8aBFTVNEU

[centralcal]

Unable to keep up with the threads and this is entirely off topic, but I think interesting:

Michelle and her daughters are vacationing again. Mt. Rushmore (S.D.) and Las Vegas, baby!

[fdcol63]

Threadkiller, GMTA. LOL

[Pofarmer]

Did you really just Spell dumbed with two m's?

[Rob Crawford]

I noticed another dog that isn't barking: why isn't the press demanding the release of the autopsy results?

This happened a month ago; I have a hard time believing the work isn't done already. More importantly, it doesn't even seem to be a topic of discussion, suggesting to me that someone's let them know the results won't be released, ever.

Now, the police can't unilaterally release the records (minor, privacy), and neither can Zimmerman's lawyers -- who may not even have access to them, since he's not been charged with anything. So...

[Pofarmer]

NK Why would a guy cheching out suspicious activity in his neighborhood, a neighborhood that had apparently had a rash of breakins, be considered a "sad wannabe". I have a CCW And carry. Am I a "sad wannabe" as well?

[Rob Crawford]

bubu:
Was the gun in a holster? pants pocket? Waistband? Doesn't seem like a detail Zimmerman would want to be coy about if he's innocent.

Wow, bubu, you really are comfortable letting your ignorance fly, aren't you?

From the arrest reports:

Zimmerman stated he had shot the subject and he was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster.

What makes you so certain you know the facts of this case, when you act as if such easily attainable information is a mystery?

[NK]

Po-- "probably"-- 46 911 calls in 8 years? maybe he's a very civic minded young man, maybe even noble, or maybe a wannabe. Remember-- the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow the wandering young man, and he did. Tragedy results.

[narciso]

'the two minute hate' never really changes, except with the target, and sometimes the duration,, about three weeks ago, it ran two
hours, no if Zimmerman, really wanted to kill
Martin, why call the cops,

[Rob Crawford]

the key to this case is exactly how a guy with a gun ends up shooting an unarmed teenager

The "unarmed teenager" committed assault and battery, placing the "guy with a gun" in fear for his life.

CCW permit holders are told over and over (and over and over) that they better be damned sure they have a valid reason to shoot before they even draw their weapon. Evidence is pretty solid that he did not draw until after he was on the ground and being beaten.

(Though I do wonder, if he'd been allowed to openly carry his pistol, would Trayvon(tm) have been more likely to continue to his uncles rather than cut back and attack?)

[Rob Crawford]

maybe he's a very civic minded young man, maybe even noble, or maybe a wannabe. Remember-- the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow the wandering young man, and he did.

He's part of the neighborhood watch, and the calls were made as part of that work.

He did not follow the "wandering young man", the "wandering young man" wandered back and attacked Zimmerman as Zimmerman walked back to his vehicle.

[Rob Crawford]

The MSM and talking heads are all just like guys at the bar that have had a couple and feel brave and obnoxious. They're not anything like real reporters, investigators, or principled professionals. They're guys at a bar saying what they think.

I disagree -- the MSM and talking heads are saying what they've been told to say. The family's lawyers have been feeding the press a pack of lies for weeks, including fake animations purporting to show the events:

These same attorneys got one major news source, Reuters, to do a piece on March 7th which got on the Yahoo internet news service. This piece was just the one side and included an animated video inside a longer video that depicted Zimmerman as shooting Martin from a distance in cold blood. This is at 55 sec. into the 3:21 video. Last night for a while the video at the same link was changed to a longer one (4:11) with an intro by Charlie Rose and the animation changed to one of Zimmerman assaulting Martin and then shooting him at close range. Today the original seems to be back up, for now. (LUN)

[Rob Crawford]

My guess is bunkster has never touched a gun.

Ya think?

[Threadkiller]

Fdcol63, indeed.

[fdcol63]

" ... Did you really just Spell dumbed with two m's? ..."

LOL - yes, I did. Thanks for pointing out how dumb I am, Pofarmer.

[Rob Crawford]

I think key evidence is the gun. Was it concealed on Zimmerman or was Martin able to see it. If Martin saw the gun either before or during the fight then Zimmerman had a right to use it.

*sigh*

There is no requirement to show people you have a gun before you use it. In fact, the laws generally run against that.

In Florida, you can only openly carry if you're engaged in hunting or fishing. Otherwise, the gun must remain concealed -- if it's not concealed, you could face "brandishing" charges and lose your CCW.

[narciso]

This is the same media, that has managed to cover up the death of thousands of Mexican nationals, at the hands of govt provided
weapons to the Sinaloa cartel,

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

[Threadkiller]

So, are you saying he was brandishing the weapon, Rob?

[Chubby]

do Neighborhood Watch people get training, in cooperation with the police? the training would instruct the watchers, among other things, to be able to provide specific details when in communication with the police. That could explain why Jorge went looking for a street name.

[Pofarmer]

I see Rob Crawford has got my back. 6 calls a year, yep, the guys a loonie for sure.

[Rob Crawford]

But I ask you, does someone who just shot and killed an unarmed boy tell the police the WHOLE story?

Yes, they generally do, NK.

Anybody who condemns either of this guys as being the real villain is a fraud; you can't KNOW that.

Then I'm a "fraud". Based on the evidence available, I conclude the "kid" thought he could get away with beating a man who was just keeping an eye out for trouble. The "kid" was stupid, and paid the ultimate price for stupidity: death.

My position is falsifiable: if evidence comes out that changes the picture of what happened, then I'll change my conclusion.

Somehow, I doubt you can say the same.

[Rob Crawford]

So, are you saying he was brandishing the weapon, Rob?

Exact opposite -- there's no evidence he touched his weapon before he was on the ground and being beaten.

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

Bubu,

In the last thread I asked you to post what facts you think give the prosecutor "probable cause" to charge Zimmerman with murder. (I'm assuming you missed my post.)

[narciso]

I still insist it was a tragic accident, Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon, the latter wasn't terribly solid in his judgements, or he wouldn't have been 400 miles from his regular residence, serving a third suspension,

[Cecil Turner]

The video supports Zimmerman. There's a definite blemish visible at 1:10, when the light shines directly on the back of his head. A still makes it more obvious, and the enhanced still shows exactly what you'd expect from the incident report: a cleaned-up wound.

(I understated this above.)

[Chubby]

((The family's lawyers have been feeding the press a pack of lies for weeks...))

journalism by press release instead of investigative reporting

[Sue]

Let me point out that it was ABC that first reported Trayvon was left in the morgue for 3 days. Unless they have corrected it since yesterday, that is still their version of events.

[Melinda Romanoff]

402 calls to 911 from Retreat at Twin Lakes starting in Jan. '11 through Feb. "12.

Perspective please.

[boris]

"the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow the wandering young man, and he did"

The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman indicated he was returning to the vehicle.

[Danube of Thought]

Minus 15 at Raz today.

Trails Romney by 2.

[Pofarmer]

I pretty much agree with Rob here. If Trayvon hadn't acted like an idiot, or a thug, take your pic, he would still be alive. All he had to do was leave zimmerman alone. Alternatively, if zimmerman had pursued him, all he had to do was wait for the cops, assuming that zimmerman told him he had called. But, no, he had to try to beat the guy up. Thug culture. So, the lesson we are teacing isn't "act like a thug, die like a thug". The mesaage is "defend your neighborhood and yourself and you're a sad wannabe". And we wnder why society is headed downhill. Good folks don't stand a chance. If the bad guys don't get em, the system will.

[Threadkiller]

Just f'n with you Rob. I figured since bubu has jumped ship, somebody needed to ask a stupid question till he gets back.

[Clarice]

DoT, guess this Trayvon mobbery and his signature legislation is not helping him.

[Jane (Where is Jon Corzine?)]

I'm with Po And Rob. If I killed someone in self defense and was sobbing at the scene as a result I'd tell the police everything as fast as I could.

I might regret it later, but if I was telling the truth I would not hesitate.

[narciso]

Well there's only so many 'look squirrels' that be can claimed Clarice,

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

Btw, Marcia, there is a phrase that comes to mind, with your contribution which comes readily to mind.

[GMAX]

Zimmerman Dad was roasting Zero. If that gets picked up and repeated ad nauseum like the skittles bullshite, it will not go well for the Dufus in Chief...

[GMAX]

I guess there is some hope that Zero can rally the Senate to support his budget right? Well yeah he did lose a 97-0 vote on last year's budget there, but still come on. Someone will vote with their party head right? How about the avowed Socialist Saunders? He will stand with Zero wont he? Or will he even be conveniently away on other business?

[narciso]

OT, I was watching some of the spinning on CNN and others, on the Supreme Court hearing, and I could swear there was a singularity forming,

[Clarice]

Typical commentary at CNN

Poster 1 refers to Trayvon's not so angelic behavior at school
Poster 2, rather than acknowledging the truth that the angelic picture the media presented was distorted, responds,suggesting poster 1 means that that means Trayvon can then be murdered.

The quality of discourse online leaves something to be desired.

[NK]

RobC-- your 'conclusions' and 'positions'do not equal 'know'-- you admit that your conclusions are probationary, b/c they can be 'falsified'. So I guess you agree that you don't know at this point;

Po- I agree with the larger point of standing up to and defeating thug/hoodie culture. But I am not a fan of guns on the street. I say that with some experience-- in September 1979 I met my own Trayvon Martin; a hoodie kid (16-17yo?) walked up next to me offered to sell me weed, when I said no he demanded my money and showed me the silver 32 cal revolver in his hoodie pocket. I walked away -- for 5 sec or so I KNEW I was going to be shot in the back. I KNEW it-- by the grace of God it didn't happen. That happened at 19th Street and Columbia Road, right on the edge of Kalorama Park, Wash DC. If I had a 9mm- I don't know what would have happened. If I shot the 17yo, would the world have been a better place? If he shot me would the world have been a better place? I'm not a fan of guns on the street.

[boris]

The left doesn't really believe in self defense to begin with.

[narciso]

Well GIGO, Clarice, imagine if Soledad and co, were your chief source of news,

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/03/sourcing-narrative-facts-in-the-martin-case/

Down here, one should keep in mind, Robles was practically Zelaya's mouthpiece during
'the Mouse that roared' incident in Honduras.

[GMAX]

If I shot the 17yo, would the world have been a better place?

Sounds like a resounding yes. Now if you had said he was eating skittles at the time, I would need to reconsider...

[jwest]

MSNBC must have received some heat over their deceptive editing of the Zimmerman tape. They just played the portion that was cut out of the office looking at the back of Zimmerman’s head.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/lord-monckton-convinced-of-obama-fraud-after-sheriff-joe-visit/

The Obama birth certificate case appealed to Monckton’s instincts as a fraud detector. In his role as a policy adviser to Thatcher in the 1980s, Monckton reviewed fraud cases and developed single-page briefs with an action plan for the British prime minister.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkqSgLwqYpY

[Rob Crawford]

TK:
Just f'n with you Rob. I figured since bubu has jumped ship, somebody needed to ask a stupid question till he gets back.

No problem.

[jimmyk]

the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow the wandering young man, and he did.

I don't know why you assert that as fact, NK. Zimmerman's story, corroborated by all sorts of circumstantial evidence, is the other way around. He followed him while calling 911, and when the dispatcher told him "You don't need to do that" he said "OK". He says he then went back to his vehicle, at which point he was accosted by Martin. Even if you don't believe that scenario, the alternative is hardly an established fact.

[NK]

jimmyK-- fair enough. 911 told him not to follow-- GZ claims he complied and headed back to his car -- and then TM attacked him. Somehow I doubt that is the whole story, but that's what has to be sorted out.

[Clarice]

I have long been meaning to write about how Ralph Nader operated--and it is lawyer Crump's style apparently. He got his money from trial lawyers, laundered thru a variety of "public interest" groups he formed and staffed with underpaid students. These groups fed stuff to the press who blew it up (literally, as in exploding gas tanks), then the lawyers would come into ourt and present their cases to already prejudiced jurors.

Neat ticket to ride.

Works on "civil rights" cases, too, apparently.Though it's hard to see who the deep pocket is here.

[narciso]

This puts a whole other spin on it, doesn't it;

He said his son had just made dinner for his wife and was heading to Target the night of the NBA All Starts game when he spotted Trayvon, who he didn’t recognize as a resident. He thought Trayvon looked suspicious, because there had been a rash of break-ins, and instead of walking on a main sidewalk, Trayvon was walking in a paved path that goes behind two sets of townhouses.

George Zimmerman called police, and started “walking in the same general direction to see where the individual was going,” and get an address for police.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/29/2720704/george-zimmermans-dad-trayvon.html#moreb#storylink=cpy

[Ignatz]

--when I said no he demanded my money and showed me the silver 32 cal revolver in his hoodie pocket. I walked away -- for 5 sec or so I KNEW I was going to be shot in the back. I KNEW it-- by the grace of God it didn't happen. That happened at 19th Street and Columbia Road, right on the edge of Kalorama Park, Wash DC. If I had a 9mm- I don't know what would have happened--

I've confronted no small number of armed trespassers and poachers and have never had a problem precisely because I was also packing a longarm.
I also investigated some odd goings on in a neighboring property which was roiling our creek. Since we'd had trouble with our neighbors previously I strapped on my shoulder holster, fortunately, and hike up the road, because our delightful neighbors had hired an ape of an ex con who informed me that if I came up their without a "cannon" on that I'd suffer a different fate next time.
And I've had at least a couple of very polite conversations with pot growers I happened on in the back of beyond, conversations that would probably have been considerably less convivial were I not prominently displaying a 45 auto in a shoulder holster.

So could two memes please die?;

1. The assumption that a gun emboldens the person carrying it to do reckless things. No doubt it does for some, but for most people it has precisely the opposite effect causing them to be considerably more cautious knowing what the stakes and his responsibilities are.

2. A civilian who keeps an eye on his neighborhood is a "wannabe". It is in the great tradition of America that we watch out for each other dating back to Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, continuing through our citizen revolution and the settling of the rest of the country.

[Danube of Thought]

Let's stick to the known facts: Trayvon was hunted down like a dog and executed for being black in a gated commjunity.

Now let's try to determine whether the hunter/executioner committed a crime.

[matt]

can we please just let the police and authorities do their jobs? None of this speculation is good for anybody.

It takes pathologists, forensics, and other specialists to make sense of most of what heretofore has pure speculation.

[Neo]

Having a long experience in speech compression techniques used in cell phones, I can tell you that anything that isn't obvious in the phone calls probably doesn't exist. Technically, anything not in the top 12dB is strongly suspect.

Audio compression is the art of using as little as possible to convey the most obvious, and faking the rest (with a strong emphasis on not blowing out the ears of the user). The compression techniques used for cell phones is generally known as "lossy" and this means it is not anywhere near the same quality as a "land line."

[jimmyk]

NK, the reason I believe it is that GZ says he lost sight of Martin. Now if Martin was heading toward his destination that would have been it. But somehow they encountered each other again. One scenario is that he either lied in real time about losing him, or somehow managed to catch up with him anyway, even though Martin was continuing on his way to the house. The more plausible scenario is that Martin circled around confronted him on the way back to his vehicle.

[MarkO]

Dare I say it this way? They're out to lynch Zimmerman.

[NK]

Po-- I admit I am completely ignorant of rural thug culture and how to confront it. I am accustomed to the streets of NYC, DC, Boston and Hartford. They are confined, and the thugs use the guns. Showing a weapon doesn't deter-- it incites. Maybe that's what happened in Fla.

[jimmyk]

I guess I'm a "wannabe" in my Manhattan apartment building because if a stranger wants to follow me in through the front door I either don't let them and make them get buzzed in, or politely ask them who they are going to see. (And our building management asks that we do so.)

[rse]

red's brother taught her to shoot.

Now she has friends wanting her to take them to the range to learn to shoot as well.

My dad and granddad were big game hunters so I learned to shoot as a kid. Came in handy practicing corporate law the first time a client suggested skeet shooting as an activity. I guess I did not look like someone ready to take down those clay pigeons.

My point is that this current generation of 18-20 year olds is far more interested in guns and learning how to use them responsibly than I ever remember from my generation. Maybe bo has hatched a group that is far more passionate about that 2nd amendment he so wants to do away with.

[NK]

MarkO-- yes there is a lynch mob made up of race hustlers out to throw GZ in jail and sue the City of Sanford for a zillion Dollars. I agree with matt about dangerous speculation, but TomM is also right to confront the hustlers with facts. This whole situation stinks, but I've been convinced by people here that getting down in the mud and exposing the hustlers' and media's lies is necessary.

[Pofarmer]

There is no indication Zimmerman brandished his weapon. Have you ever had CCW instruction?

[NK]

jimmyk-- and if the person you politely ask to leave does so, do you follow them down the street to see what they are up to?

[NK]

Po-- well it was brandished at some point before TM was shot dead.

[Thomas Collins]

Re Ignatz's 10:36 AM post: If those who argue that having a gun makes one reckless are correct, where are all the reports on shootings at gatherings of firearms owners? Isn't the fact of the matter that if we read of a gunfight at an NRA meeting, we'd all be shocked because that would be such a rare if not unheard of event? On the other hand, if we read of an armed robbery or of an unarmed citizen being gunned down by a member of the criminal element, we'd be outraged, but we wouldn't be particularly surprised.

[Pofarmer]

Nk

Do you think the NBPP intends to turn Zimmerman over to the cops?

[Clarice]

Another of Trayvon's twitter accounts and yet another picture:http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/

[Ignatz]

--I am accustomed to the streets of NYC, DC, Boston and Hartford. They are confined, and the thugs use the guns. Showing a weapon doesn't deter-- it incites.--

It's amazing this discussion has continued for around a month and I cannot recall John Lott's research in civilian weapon use mentioned once, research that demonstrates pretty conclusively the value of law abiding gun ownership and concealed carry in both rural and, even more so, urban environments.

[James D.]

Here's a representative comment from a leftist swamp:

"Nobody who isn’t wearing Klan robes thinks Zimmerman acted in self-defense. The problem is that we’re finding out what’s hanging in so many people’s closets."

There's the tolerance, open-mindedness and willingness to look at evidence that we've come to expect from the other side. Isn't it lovely?