Who Are You Going To Believe, Me Or Your Lying Ears?

The NY Times opens a campaign to bring racial justice to Florida.  They may have landed on the right side of the issue, or not.  Their lead:

Justice Department Investigation Is Sought in Florida Teenager’s Shooting Death

By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

MIAMI — Nearly three weeks after an unarmed teenager was killed in a small city north of Orlando, stirring an outcry, a few indisputable facts remain: the teenager, who was black, was carrying nothing but a bag of Skittles, some money and a can of iced tea when he was shot. The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who got out of his car and shot him is white and Hispanic. He has not been arrested and is claiming self-defense.

Beyond that, however, little is clear about the Feb. 26 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, 17.

As criticism of the police investigation mounts, so too do the calls for swift action in a case with heavy racial overtones. Protests grow larger each week, and lawyers for the family are now asking the Department of Justice to intervene. The case also brings into sharp focus Florida’s self-defense laws, which give people who feel threatened greater latitude in defending themselves than most states.

We all know the script, and yes, former Presidential candidate Al Sharpton is on his way.

Let's press on with what the Times presents as fact:

The police in of Sanford, where the shooting took place, are not revealing details of the investigation. Late Friday night, after weeks of pressure, the police played the 911 calls in the case for the family and gave copies to the news media. On the recordings, one shot, an apparent warning or miss, is heard, followed by a voice begging or pleading, and a cry. A second shot is then heard, and the pleading stops.

“It is so clear that this was a 17-year-old boy pleading for his life, and someone shot him in cold blood,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the Martin family lawyers.

Two shots!  Well, can we make that "two shots?" with a BIG question mark? [UPDATE:  In a follow-up story, the Times does just that.]  From other sources it seems clear to me that the shooter, George Zimmerman, provoked the situation by leaving his car and following the teen.  However, there seems to be a real question, other than in TimesLand, as to how many shots were fired.

Here is the Orlando Sentinel:

Trayvon Martin shooting: Screams, shots heard on 911 call

Two shots and screaming can be heard in dramatic 911 calls released late Friday from the shooting of Trayvon Martin.

So far so good for the Times editorial process.  But...

In one of the eight calls, screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. That call is punctuated by two gunshots.

"You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life," said Natalie Jackson, another family attorney. "Then you hear a second shot."

It was the first time that anyone said two shots were fired that night.

And in an earlier version of the same Sentinel story run by an ABC news affiliate, this paragraph was included:

But three witnesses who have made public statements have been clear that they heard a single shot, and Trayvon was hit in the chest by a single bullet.

One shot is still one too many, but the narrative with a warning shot, the pleading and the cold-bloded execution relies on two shots.

So let's go to the tape.  The Orlando Sentinel version is here; the first "gunshot" is at 24 seconds and the next at 41.  I have downloaded it and converted it to MP3, which is here.

 

Trayvon Martin shooting 911 calls Sanford Police to release 911 calls in Trayvon Martin shooting - Orlando Sentinel

An obvious puzzle is the woman caller's non-reaction to the first "gunshot" at 24 seconds, especially considering her clear "There's a gunshot" reaction to the shot heard at 41.

A possible explanation - the woman recognized the first sound as something else altogether - a door slamming, the phone being bumped against a wall, or whatever - and paid it no mind.  The second shot we hear is the first shot fired.

Eventually, some news service (presumaby not the Times) will hire audio experts to study the tape.  In the meantime, I have employed some free software and some free time to offer some free analysis (and you get what you pay for.)  Here, using Audacity, are waveforms of the two gunshots.

First, the waveform around 24 seconds:

And next, the 41 second mark:

If one of those sounded louder on the tape, it might be because it was louder.  That said, the woman seemed to be moving around inside her home, so the sound quality could have changed.  However, the notion that the first "gunshot" was actually something else would explain her non-reaction and the other witness accounts.

Well - nobody working as a CSI needs to fear for their job based on my effort.  However, I would welcome and encourage a serious effort to establish just what we are hearing on this tape.

WORTH KEEPING IN MIND:

[Police investigator] Serino said Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.

Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that "he couldn't tell, that it was too distorted."

The audio has since been cleaned up, and now Tracy Martin has no doubt but that the voice is his son, Crump said.

As to just how cleaned up these tapes are, who knows?  Is a gunshot so distinctive that it could be cleaned away?  And there is still her non-reaction to the first shot.

FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE... As a casual consumer of self defense articles, I infer that warning shots are not encouraged. In the case at hand, there was a 17 second lag between shots, which is an age in the course of a backyard scuffle.

Ok, maybe Zimmerman shot with intent twice and missed the first time.

GETTING SOMEWHERE:  This Miami Herald story from Thursday precedes the release of the 911 tapes.  Two witnesses - Austin McLendon, the 13 year old dog walker and Mary Cutcher heard one shot.  From Ms. Cutcher:

“This was not self-defense,” Cutcher said. “We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldn’t have stopped. If you’re hurting, you’re hurting.”

She and her friend say they heard the sounds from a few steps away, where they were inside beside an open window.

FWIW, the police say they spoke with her and now her story is changing as she speaks to the press.

The HuffPo details Austin's account:

Austin comes on the line [with the 911 dispatcher]: "I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help, that was screaming and then I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, so I went and got my dog, and then I heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped."

The dispatcher asks: "Did you see the person shot? Did you know the person that was shot, or see the person with the gun?"

"No, I just heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped," Austin replied.

The screaming stopped after the second shot, so how did he not hear the first while he was outside and nearby?

Let's hear from the chief of police:

“Mr. Zimmerman’s claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon,” Police Chief Bill Lee said in an interview. “I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.”

To claim self-defense, someone has to show there was danger of great bodily harm or death, Lee said. “Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story,” Lee said.

Zimmerman had a damp shirt, grass stains, a bloody nose and was bleeding from a wound in back of his head, according to police reports.

“If someone asks you, ‘Hey do you live here?’ is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody?” Lee said. “It’s not.”

Was Zimmerman engaging in a bit of racial profiling when he started following the black teen?  Was Martin engaging in a bit of profiling by feeling threatened by the large swarthy man?

I remain confident that if Zimmerman had not had a gun he would have stayed in his car and this would be a non-event. As to how the two of them interacted, I don't know, although I am sure Al Sharpton will explain it cogently.

IF YOU CAN'T TRUST THE AP:

Officials released a total of seven 911 calls. All of the callers described a single shot.

AND NOW THE TIMES COMES AROUND A BIT:

Ms. Alvarez has a new story.  Her lead:

911 Calls Add Detail to Debate Over Florida Killing

By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

MIAMI — It was raining the night of Feb. 26 when George Zimmerman, a crime watch volunteer, set out to patrol his neighborhood in his sport utility vehicle, as was his habit in recent weeks. Several break-ins had been reported in the area, and Mr. Zimmerman was especially alert.

He spotted a young black teenager wearing a sweatshirt, with the hood draped over his head. Mr. Zimmerman, a 28-year-old Hispanic man, trailed him a bit. Then he called 911, the first of seven calls from Mr. Zimmerman and panicked neighbors that begin to flesh out the details in the death of Trayvon Martin, 17, whom Mr. Zimmerman shot. The police released the recordings to local reporters late Friday night after nearly three weeks of pressure from Trayvon’s parents and their supporters.

The 911 calls from a gated community in Sanford, north of Orlando, culminate with a faint voice in the distance crying and pleading for help. A gunshot is heard, and then silence. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense, after the two got into a fight and Mr. Zimmerman wound up on the ground. There have been no arrests in the case. The unarmed teenager, who carried Skittles and a can of iced tea, was walking to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a convenience store.

Big Skip and:

It is not clear from the audio whether one or two shots was fired. And, with the voice muffled in the distance, it is difficult to know which of the two men is crying out for help.

Yesterday we heard two gunshots, today it's one.  I can't wait for tomorrow, and crickets.

Here is one more for the Unanswered Questions file:

Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.

I have no idea what school he attended, but for flavor, here is a Southwest Miami High School discipline plan.  Fighting is an automatic ten-day suspension; repeated minor offenses such as smoking or dress code violations can result in a ten dayer.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/v-fullstory/2696446/trayvon-martin-case.html#storylink=cpy

Comments

[Captain Hate]

I never understood why anybody would willfully inflict Genet on themselves other than to understand the techniques of a third rater.

[jimmyk]

Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if this case could be investigated and the truth determined without any care or concern for the skin color or surname of those involved?

I happened to watch an episode of "Criminal Minds" last night, in which there is an alert put out for a serial killer believed to be black. A black detective voiced those exact sentiments. Needless to say, a few minutes later he was gunned down by a white homeowner who had heard the alert and was frightened by seeing a black man prowling around with a gun.

Remarkably, the serial killer did turn out to be a black man. If this had been Law & Order, it would have been a white Christian minister or investment banker.

[Clarice]

The play was hateful and rather bizarre despite the rave reviews and long run but the actors were all magnificent.

[Captain Hate]

Or a skinhead, jimmyk, which per L&O (just before I resolved never to watch again) your fair city is just crawling with.

[MarkO]

Home run, Clarice:

"I am telling you, stop playing along and start fighting back."

[narciso]

I know they turned the Lynne Stewart affair,
into the Glenn Greenwald one; re Matt Hale,

[narciso]

And they didn't notice the irony about the
fact that 'nation's great patriot' had defended a murderous neonazi.

[narciso]

Sometimes you just can't win, no matter how hard you try, sarc;.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/03/obamas-muslim-adviser-criticizes-assad-for-not-being-able-to-deliver-resistance-to-israel.html

[DebinNC]

I had doubts about the Duke Rape Hoax early on, but when Al Sharpton didn't hot foot it down to Durham, despite the national hooopla, I knew he'd been told by locals that Crystal Mangum was a lying scamstress.

[MarkO]

Apparently, they've found those responsible for Obama's fact checking. This is just too good.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/03/crow-lends-a-hand.php

[Manuel Transmission]

JiB, by shear coincidence, Mrs. MT is reading Kean's book right now. One of the mysteries that intregues me is how rare these events are today even though there are 1B+ cameras within reach around the world at any given moment. Have we lab rats entered a new test phase? ;^)

[Captain Hate]

That is hilarious, Mark, but at least Crow T Robot knows how to pronounce his name and doesn't sound like a stuttering imbecile.

[Danube of Thought]

Minus 11 at Raz today.

Leads Romney by 4.

[Ignatz]

What's disturbing about events like this is the pressure put on police and prosecutors to do something different than they would otherwise have done.
Sometimes no doubt that results in justice being served but if it does it is only by haapenstance. What usually occurs is someone is prosecuted based on how the story is formed in the public mind not on typical prosecutorial standards.
So some guy who would not otherwise have been prosecuted is, or someone who would otherwise have been found not guilty goes to prison or vice versa, and the media pat themselves on the back for essentially enforcing mob rule.

[Jane (Bad says Obama sucks)]

Capn' are you watching the Sunday talk shows? I'm really starting to dislike Santorum a lot, and I wonder if anyone else saw him this morning. He's just nasty.

[Ignatz]

--Apparently, they've found those responsible for Obama's fact checking. --

If only. At least if MST were writing his stuff Barry would be intentionally funny.

[MarkO]

Bill Tilden should have been VP under those existing rules. I felt like I was listening to MSNBC interviewing Obama.

[Captain Hate]

Capn' are you watching the Sunday talk shows? I'm really starting to dislike Santorum a lot, and I wonder if anyone else saw him this morning. He's just nasty.

I just watched FNS which was refreshing because Baer was hosting because Chris Wallace was still swooning after interviewing global political sooper genius George Clooney. Santorum creeps me out so much I couldn't vote for him as the anybody but Willard in the primary. Willard was interviewed on FNS and came off pretty well imo.

[Clarice]

I'm sorry to report that if my 27 days of grand jury duty taught me nothing, it's that the federal imprint on local prosecutors has equally skewed the prosecution of domestic violence and violence against women cases.

[Ignatz]

Clarice, it's customary for people to rave (deservedly so) over every new Pieces, but I genuinely think that was your best yet.
I wish every person going into a voting booth in November could read and absorb what it says about the fools in power in this country.
My only criticism was going to be a seeming overuse of the word "pernicious"; but after a little consideration what other word is there for such an anti and un American concept as CRT?

[Clarice]

Thanks, Iggy.

[Americana Alice (formerly known as AliceH)]

I actually did find a link to a Reagan speech using that Hayes story that several Obama defenders refer to (without a link of course) in other blogs' comment sections (LUN)

It's mostly the same apocryphal story, but of course the purpose, tone, and good will (taking the opportunity to make a joke about himself, for one thing) is an entirely different animal. Here's the relevant bit:

You know, one of the last times that this grand old mansion played host to an event concerning technology was back in '76 -- 1876. President Rutherford B. Hayes was shown a recently invented device. ``That's an amazing invention,'' he said, ``but who would ever want to use one of them?'' He was talking about a telephone. I thought at the time that he might be mistaken.

[Clarice]

More evidence of the corruption of justice in Wisconsin from the Green Bay Gazette:

"Twenty-nine circuit court judges in Wisconsin were among the hundreds of thousands of people to sign recall petitions against Gov. Scott Walker, according to a Gannett Wisconsin Media analysis. Dane County Judge David Flanagan has drawn the lion's share of the scrutiny after issuing a temporary restraining order March 6 against a Walker-backed voter ID law without disclosing his support of the recall. But the analysis shows he was joined by judges from 15 other counties in signing petitions, including two from Brown County."

[Americana Alice (formerly known as AliceH)]

Clarice - did the GB Gazette mention the source they analysed? It almost has to be the searchable database developed by VTR/TrueTheVote, don't you think?

[Janet]

More ugliness from Alec Baldwin. Nothing new.
Inhofe goes to my church.

I am finding the ugliness to conservatives & Christians to be overwhelming lately. They tested the boundaries with Sarah Palin & found out they could do anything they wanted....absolutely anything. :(

[Clarice]

I would imagine so, AA.

[Rick Ballard]

DebinNC,

Where have you been? I've missed your great links.

[Jack is Back!]

Heh!

Socialist Supermodels for Obama

These people do not understand how completely stupid, insipid and vacant they think and appear to the major set of rational human beings.

[pagar]

Janet, You 100 % correct they can get by with absolutely anything.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/disgusting-obama-administration-approves-using-aborted-fetal-brains-in-lab-experimentation/

[Ignatz]

Was the Supermodel link supposed to go to a HuffPo piece on UFOs JiB?

[Gmax]

Well we got a flyer on the Friday Noon rally in the bulletin today, an announcement about it from the pulpit( urging folks to attend) and to boot a discussion about the issue in the pastor corner column of weekly bulletin.

Cardinal Dolan is quoted " we did not ask for this fight, but we will not run from it."

DEFEAT THE HHS MANDATE

STAND UP FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM

I ask again but only will get back echos, Does that sound like the Church is going to fold?

[Jack is Back!]

HHS v. Catholic Church and all religions update:

Today in the parish bulletin it was announced that more than 60 cities will have Stand Up for Religious Freedom Rallies on Friday, March 23rd from Noon to 1PM (catch the working Catholic lunch crowd). Our parish is joining others in the diocese and going to the Federal Courthouse in Jacksonville.

I hope to be there and will report on the crowd, speeches and anything else like what I suspect will be counter-protests by the Obama Army of Secular Humanistic Hate. Maybe not in Jax but I'll bet they show up someplace. Bill Press leading the parade based on his recent comments. What a flaccid prick he has turned out to be on this issue and he calls himself a Catholic. Wuss!

[Jack is Back!]

Iggy,

My bad. Here is the real link.

Socialist Supermodels for Obama

[Gmax]

Bill Press = Alan Colmes without the charm!

Seriously, if you turned off the sound and only got closed captioning, anything out of Press's mouth would sound just like it came from Colmes who I absolutely can not stand to listen to his ramblings...

[Danube of Thought]

This was your very best, Clarice. And quite depressing.

[Gmax]

Cueball starts softening up the faithful for the inevitable:

“We have a pretty weak incumbent,” said Carville, who helped a scrappy Bill Clinton to an unlikely 1992 election. Citing Obama’s low approval ratings and high unemployment, the advisor noted that the statistics are not on Obama’s side.

[Clarice]

For once, I hope Cueball is right.

Thanks DoT. I think it's better to be able to see one's foe thru the fog than pretend he's not there.

[MarkO]

You go, Gmax. Doom is a four letter word.

[mattt]

"From other sources it seems clear to me that the shooter, George Zimmerman, provoked the situation by leaving his car and following the teen."

So, you believe the guy who provoked the incident was the who wound up shooting the unarmed combatant. That's murder. The rest is details.

[Jane (get off the couch - come save the country)]

It's 70 degrees here and I've been out cleaning the window boxes. Around here March always comes in like a lamb and leaves like a lion but I am so tempted to put my screen doors in.

[Jack is Back!]

DoT,

Is the movement in Raz because the strongly approve number is rising of the strongly disapprove is lowering? Seems to me that with the gas pricing issue driving a stake in the heart of the economy and disposable income his Raz should be in the high teens low 20's. What has changed?

[Captain Hate]

I put in a few screens yesterday, Jane, since it's been in the 60s and 70s for about a week; unfortunately it's come with a lot of rain so everything's a big mudhole. Next weekend it's supposed to get back in the 40s.

[Gmax]

MarkO if the DOOKIE NCAA faceplant did not put you out on the ledge, why would a miserable incompetent who seems to be wildly unpopular do so?

[Ignatz]

--I put in a few screens yesterday, Jane, since it's been in the 60s and 70s for about a week; unfortunately it's come with a lot of rain so everything's a big mudhole. Next weekend it's supposed to get back in the 40s.--

Awoke to four inches of powdery global warming out here in sunny CA, with more coming down.

[Jack is Back!]

DoT,

Its stories and polls likethese that prompt my doubts of the Raz poll.

[Ignatz]

If you want depressing listen to the imbecilic Elle MacPherson and that hideous hag sidekick of Howard Stern at JiB's link.

[OldTimer]

Holder 1995: We Must 'Brainwash' People Against Guns

Video LUN

[MarkO]

Walter Russell Mead on freedom by way of school lunch.

“Let’s be clear: if school lunches shouldn’t be settled at the local level, democracy is doomed. If we actually need federal bureaucrats to tell us what to feed our children, the republic is finished and it is time to close up shop. We are so clueless and careless as a nation that the first determined group of barbarians to come along can push us over.”

Read it all: http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/03/17/pink-slime-coming-to-a-school-near-you/

[Janet]

That link is just too sad, pagar. Oh my goodness. I wonder who is providing the baby brains to the lab?

Stand Up For Religious Freedom Friday March 23 at noon all across America

Hands Off My Healthcare
March 27 at one Washington DC

[MarkO]

Gmax, it's hard to community organize an NCAA game and everyone can count the score as it goes along.

[Janet]

Road to Repeal
March 24th 12noon Washington DC

[Gmax]

What did the National Journal poll say Friday? 49% will definitely vote for someone else for President and only 44% said "deserves reelection". In a sample that was that D + 8. PLUS EIGHT!!! Not even close to what 2012 turnout is going to look like.

I cant reconcile that with RAS. But their findings are right in line with what ABC/WSJ and even the notorious CBS/NYT poll was showing. RAS seems to be the odd man out right now.

Ranger thinks he is oversampling college grads.

Something does not compute.

[Captain Hate]

Hatette #2's high school won their fourth straight state championship yesterday. When my daughter was a junior, the team was pretty bad (but they did extremely well in the country club sports of golf and tennis) and they brought in a coach who'd had championship experience elsewhere. During his first year we had a German student staying with us and for some reason (she was really bad and out of shape) she went out for the team. I attended a meeting the coach had for parents and he sounded like the real deal and was very convincing that he could turn things around. I attended some of the practices and he ran a tight ship; and Janina was badly winded after all of them until she was cut. The first year they were competitive for a change and as you can see, it's been "sky's the limit" from then on out.

[Captain Hate]

Hmmm, I neglected to say that it was a basketball championship.

[Jack is Back!]

For all the engineers out there especially those who had to do rigging and load calks.

We Need a Bigger Crane:)

[Danube of Thought]

Strongly Approve has increased lately. Strongly Disapprove stays at around 40.

[Danube of Thought]

I have developed quite an intense hatred of Santorum.

[Captain Hate]

Sorry Iggy; I've heard Elle before and NFW will I endure her witless cackling again.

[Captain Hate]

Georgetown and iNCeST committing aesthetic felonies against the sport of basketball. And to maximize the suckage, Westwood 1 has sent John Thompson 2 to cover the game.

[Janet]

A new KONY2012 Jason Russell video. I'm no expert, but it looks like more than dehydration to me.

[narciso]

Santorum, I find incredibly maladroit in discussing issues, now sending an aide, Hogan Gidley, to the two hour hate, referenced earlier, that's another matter,

[Jack is Back!]

MarkO,

I understand the DoA has rescinded the "pink slime" incorporation into school lunches. I know MickeyD's has got rid of it in their burgers.

ION's "Democrat Congressional Candidate Arrested for Aggravated Assault". Guess the party:)

[narciso]

Now the fact that he was Huck's Pac master, and also regretably executive director of the S.C. GOP. probably has something to do with it. I mean how much sense do you need to have not to bring bilingualism in Puerto Rico,

[Americana Alice (formerly known as AliceH)]

Changes to Fed funding rules for school lunches last year led to our school district having to raise prices. I've never been able to work out the exact algorithm, but it starts with the fed declaring a baseline "lunch price" from which they work out % local out-of-pocket minimum to get any funding -- and that baseline was higher than the actual cost in our region.

That was a really big deal here - and it is definitely going to cost Obama some votes.

[narciso]

You know it's interesting, that in a normal campaign, Jodi Cantor's piece from which much
of Breitbart's work builds on, would have been
a 'gamechanger' to quote a phrase because it
illuminates exactly what he is about, it takes
Obama seriously, yet it might as well have disappeared with Unperson Comrade Ogilvy, it's still there, but buried under layers of chaff, that is the power of the Ministry of Truth.

[Jane (get off the couch - come save the country)]

I have developed quite an intense hatred of Santorum.

Me too altho I am trying to keep an open mind. He reminds me of a spoiled child who is both petulant and nasty. I actually think 1. he is over his head and 2. he doesn't have a whit of statesman in him - which reminds me way too much of the current WH resident, except Santorum doesn't hide it as well.

[Americana Alice (formerly known as AliceH)]

I suppose I should mention that serious efforts were made to try to work out a way to manage without the fed subsidies at all, but there just wasn't enough time or money to make the amount of local budget changes between the new rule announcements in the summer and the start of school year.

[narciso]

Meanwhile, there is a degree of candidness, here, just not as intended;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/03/16/nprs-totenberg-if-gop-picked-new-contender-convention-elite-media-would-

[narciso]

Interesting details, that don't seem entirely
implausible.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700186/the-kennedy-assassination-did.html

[MarkO]

JiB, whoa. Did you see her picture. Clearly the face of a Democrat.

[Captain Hate]

Nina with the water is wet insight that has marked her career. I've never understood why the MFM had it in for Quayle although somebody here may have addressed that before.

[MarkO]

narc, even likely, although hard to know. But, giving a warning, even to Castro, would be unlikely because it could have changed JFK's plans----unless Castro was in on it.

I'll never tire of JFK assassination conspiracy theories, even though most have been squished by science. (Grassy knoll-other gunmen--you know)

[MarkO]

As to Tot's comments, we must remember the base and that we would have a full 60 days to march to unprecedented victory. Sort of like Goldwater (for whom I campaigned door to door).

[Dave (in MA)]

"Madness is not the reason for this massacre"
"Murderous" US soldiers "running amok" in Haditha are mentioned early on. Someone is in need of a himselfing, apparently.

[narciso]

Well you campaigned for Goldwater good for you, of course, Duke and Duke readily slimed
him, back then, before Johnson brought out the heavy artillery that fall. Although the circumstances were markedly different, in economic and social terms than we find today.

[narciso]

No, Bob, it's not personal, it's the business
Bashir and company are in, now he's been the Syrians guest for at least a quarter century, so 'he's shocked, shocked'

[jimmyk]

I've never understood why the MFM had it in for Quayle although somebody here may have addressed that before.

Aside from the fact that he was a young, conservative Republican? Who was born and educated in flyover country? He was also vulnerable because he wasn't a glib, smooth talker like Barry.

[Captain Hate]

Well your last sentence was my point, jimmy; he struck me as somebody they could get flustered at any time. I thought it was pretty unforgivable what the MFM did to him but his inability to push back against it pretty much meant he didn't have the right stuff to take it to those jackal imo.

[narciso]

Who had taken out one of the liberals leading lights in Birch Bayh, back in 1980, who came from a prominent publishing family, the Pulliams, who was avowedly prolife, ironically, I recall Gary Wills, tried to make a big thing about his family's pastor,

[Captain Hate]

jackals

[Mike Giles]

"He would shout for help, Brian Macker, if he was unarmed and had a gun pulled on him. He could have been an unarmed burglar who had a gun pulled on him."
I'm confused. Why are so many people here trying to justify the shooting of an unarmed, black kid. Contrary to a popular held belief, there is no "crime" gene and black people don't have it. Sometimes black people are just walking down the street minding their own business, when some paranoid A-hole decide to pull a pull a "Dirty Harry" on them. People should simply be horrified that this tragedy took place, instead they're looking to provide excuses for the shooter. This reminds me of nothing so much as the kid who was walking down the street with a Three Musketeers bar in his hand, and was shot y a US Marshall because the shiny wrapper "looked like a weapon". Nobody ever asked the question of why black = armed, in some people's minds.

BTW, when someone, anyone, shoots an UNARMED black kid, no "race card" is involved in pointing out that's wrong.

[Rick Ballard]

The last major primaries are on June 5. Governor Romney will have a solid plurality and can spend June, July and August clearly delineating the huge differences between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. A masterful politician should have no problem.

[Jane (get off the couch - come save the country)]

Mike,

That's a great question. I think this president has done everything he can to pit race against race, and it has trickled down. And I only expect it to get worse. If the shooter isn't tried and convicted I expect Eric Holder will swoop in with some federal charge no one has ever heard of to make sure he goes away foeever. And if roles were reversed I'm pretty sure Holder would pressure the state to not prosecute the shooter. These are the times we live in.

[daddy]

Yay NC State.

Nice victory over the Hoya's.

Off to work now dammit, so it's up to the Captain and MarkO to pull for the Heels and Florida State---Ughh. Grit your teeth boys, but I know you can do it for the team.

Bye.

[daddy]

Yay NC State.

Nice victory over the Hoya's.

Off to work now dammit, so it's up to the Captain and MarkO to pull for the Heels and Florida State---Ughh. Grit your teeth boys, but I know you can do it for the team.

Bye.

[Captain Hate]

Why are so many people here trying to justify the shooting of an unarmed, black kid.

After reading this nonsense I decided to see how many "so many" are. The answer appears to be zero but don't let that get in the way of feeling good about yourself.

[Captain Hate]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏
This is 4th straight NCAA tourney appearance for Georgetown in which the Hoyas were eliminated by a double-digit seed. #MarchMadness

[jimmyk]

People should simply be horrified that this tragedy took place, instead they're looking to provide excuses for the shooter.

Whereas you seem to believe like the Queen of Hearts: Sentence first! Verdict afterwards. I think people here are only interested the alleged shooter get due process and not be convicted in the media.

BTW, when someone, anyone, shoots an UNARMED black kid, no "race card" is involved in pointing out that's wrong.

What does "black" have to do with it, then? What's wrong is jumping to conclusions simply because the kid was black. No doubt it's a tragedy, but let the investigation take place. Not all tragedies are crimes.

[narciso]

Are they trying to be this bad, or is this Thompson's inevitable legacy, Captain,

[narciso]

In the same category of the Post's Dobbs and
even the Journals own reporters ignoring their own reporting,

[Captain Hate]

narc they get good recruits in and then JT3 insists on shackling them with that godawful modified Princeton offense. Although today they just were passing around the periphery and jacking up wildass threes.

[narciso]

Sorry about that;

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/53010#comment-566184

[narciso]

Rush replayed the Kobyashi Maru, in ways they didn't expected;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/03/rush-move-to-twitter-has-boycott-organizers-worried/

[narciso]

There is medication to deal with it;

http://theothermccain.com/2012/03/18/is-frances-fox-piven-irregular/#disqus_thread

[Chubby]

this commeht from narciso's link to legal insurrection: :)))

(LukeHandCool: Now … some naysaying folks … like Rutherford B. Hayes, said things like, “Responding to astroturfed boycotts via Twitter is a great idea, but who would ever use Twitter?”

And that’s why Rutherford B. Hayes isn’t on Mount Rushbo.))

[Ignatz]

--I'm confused. Why are so many people here trying to justify the shooting of an unarmed, black kid.--

Well there is the small problem of the investigating police agency, with whom the alleged shooter has no apparent relationship, which is saying its investigation appears to support it as an act of self defense.

[MarkO]

Teeth at full grit. Go team.

[Jack is Back!]

Now for some good news: Obama falling behind in big donations

OT: Bike Week is over and lots of RV's hauling Hogs are heading north. If you drive on I-95 in Gerogia, SC and NC you may want to watch out for the convoys. Could be crowded.

[rse]

well narciso I have come across fox & piven as support for bad policy today and then tracked something else down. Also bad policy so I took a look at the institute's board. I think one of my new definitive rules should be if you have the pres of the Tides F on your board, something else is afoot.

Just continuing to gather proof while it's still available. Did I tell you about the meeting I was in last year and the dean rushes out glaring? And his school's servers suddenly were down for more than a day right after. Massive scrubbing.

[Sara]

Dan Quayle:

I worked for Quayle both in DC and when he returned to Indianapolis and before moving to Arizona.

When Bush 41 introduced him as his choice for running mate, Dan bounded across the stage. The media decided he acted like it was a highschool pep rally and it was all downhill for him from that moment forward, both in the media and in the Republican party political leadership. IMO, they are the ones who failed him big time.

At the time of his selection, he was one of our experts on nuclear and working with him, I found him to be one of the smartest men I've known. He was (still is I'm sure) a very nice man to boot. He cared deeply about this country.

I don't know how he did it, but I once saw him work a room of about 300 at a political event, meeting and getting the names of each. Then, 2 hours later, standing at the door and saying goodbye and calling every person by name. Maybe others can do this, but I am the world's worst with names and can't remember someone's name 10 minutes after meeting them, so I was blown away as he reeled off hundreds correctly. My husband was assigned as his official driver for a week and he also was highly impressed with Quayle.