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April 21, 2012

Comments

DublinDave

I have the distinct feeling that Trayvon knew what he was doing with George Zimmerman's head.


I had a feeling that Zimmerman knew what he was doing when he took a loaded gun on neighbourhood watch.

Same feeling when he followed him in the dark and freaked him out-intentionally.


I guess he got tired of THEM always getting away with it.

Danube of Thought

We're going to need cboldt for this; no one else will suffice.

If the case is tried where it would be tried in the normal course, what is the total number of veniremen available--i.e., what is the population of potential jurors?

Of these, how many are black, white, Hispanic?

Enter the staisticians: what are the chances of ending up with six jurors, none of whom is black?

Ignatz

Thank you, Frau. PJ wrote along similar lines when he first moved to the country and it was nearly as hilarious. Tears in my eyes.
The comments are a hoot too.

Patriot4Freedom

MarkO - April 21, 2012 at 09:15 PM

Crump's comments make me wonder what law school he attended, and how he managed to pass the bar exam. He is nothing more than a glorified ambulance chaser.
We should forever mention he brought Sharpton into this case, whenever his name comes up.

Some guy

Oh how sad. After spending over 24 hours trying to deal with the house of cards coming down with a mere whisper rather than a mighty blow, the best DubDave can come back with is a meek ‘he be a liar’ and ‘he be guilty because, OH MY GOSH HE HAD A GUN!!!’

Did I say sad? I meant really… really sad. I need a tissue.

DublinDave

Damn-what a pity Zimmermans felony battery of a police officer didn't carry more weight?

Some guy

OMG, I need another tissue... 'a FELONY!!!!!'

Melinda Romanoff

Hahahahaha.

Op-er-a-tion.


Bzzzzt.

xbradtc

I had a feeling that Zimmerman knew what he was doing when he took a loaded gun on neighbourhood watch.

I have a distinct feeling you're (as usual) wrong, DD.

Zimmerman was on the way to the store when he spotted Martin.

Melinda Romanoff

Some-

You sure that isn't Fellony to whom you're referring.

Gsnert.

xbradtc

Damn-what a pity Zimmermans felony battery of a police officer didn't carry more weight?

If you watched the bail hearing closely, you'd see that when the judge addressed the charge that was put into pre-trial diversion, he seemed to react to it as pretty much a bullshit charge- just a case of the state "hanging paper" on someone.

Captain Hate

Some guy, have some mercy on the troll. He's obviously been drinking heavily after the sham trial in which he was so heavily invested has blown up in his face before even starting. So much so that he can't spell worth a damn and is using a question mark after statements.

It's funny in a way but mostly pathetic. Kind of like a new remake of Dumb and Dumber that goes straight to DVD.

DublinDave

"Oh how sad. After spending over 24 hours trying to deal with the house of cards coming down with a mere whisper rather than a mighty blow, the best DubDave can come back with is a meek ‘he be a liar’ and ‘he be guilty because, OH MY GOSH HE HAD A GUN!!!’

Did I say sad? I meant really… really sad. I need a tissue."

Lol,it is kind of sad,isn't it?It's been a busy weekend for me and I haven't had time to digest everything.Hope you've had a good weekend,though,sir.

Right,obviously you deny Zimmerman lied in his apoligy to the Martin's,that's why you're attempting to undermine my premise with a logical fallacy.

Let's say you believe Martin told the truth.He believed that Trayvon WAS in his late teen AND he also believed the Trayvon WAS slightly younger than 28.

Mmmmmm.That doesn't sound very logical does it?How can someone be both 17 and 27?

They can't,can they.So,unless you've found a way to bend time upon itself, Zimmerman's lying,right?

But why is he lying?

Why is he blatantly lying?To the mother of the child he murdered?He's had time to get his thoughts together,he knows what he said to the dispatcher that night.Why is he changing the perceived age of the child he murdered,trying to make it seem like he thought trayvon might have been a grown man?

narciso

Yes the version without Carrey or Daniels, but with Rachel Nichols, which try as she might doesn't save the project,

carl

DD demonstrates the folly of appeasement.

Give them Murder 2 and the lynch mob wants Murder 1....

Melinda Romanoff

Digest? Digest what?

You just gargle with your eyes. Pretty words, all in a row.

Trench warfare is a two dimensional problem.

Life is three.

Sara

Oh please dubbers. First it wasn't an aplogy. It was an acknowledgement of their loss and condolences. And you are nitpicking. After seeing Trayvon up close with all those tatts and gold teeth he may have revised his initial opinion of his age. It is absolutely irrelevant anyway.

NO_LIMIT_NIGGA

There is no conflict between a guess of "late teens" and "a few years younger than me" when spoken by someone in their 20s.

Remember that not everyone has your extensive experience in studying the appearance of "sweet, innocent" minorities guys who "look like kids", Dumbassdave.

(You're the guy who said that a recent picture of the 28-year-old Zimmerman made him look like a kid, just before you shared your rape fantasies about him, right?)

narciso

'these are not the droids they are looking for, apparently


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133296/Revealed-Second-hate-cleric-allowed-stay--hes-dangerous-banned-AS-level-chemistry.html

Frau Mit-und-bei

"On the 911 tape Zimmerman stated that Martin was in his late teens(practially on the button)"

That's the first I hear of this. Another Crump invention? If true, I'd like to see it.

DublinDave

Some guy, have some mercy on the troll. He's obviously been drinking heavily after the sham trial in which he was so heavily invested has blown up in his face before even starting. So much so that he can't spell worth a damn and is using a question mark after statements.


God,my spelling is pretty bad.You have me there(and the rest).


My interest in this case goes beyond the judicial.

Zimmerman murdering Trayvon martin has breathed new life into alot of Democratic issues,issues that were once dead but are now on fire.While you're all running around pretend-lawyering George,new gun control laws are being drafted.The NRA's disgusting roll in the "kill black children for free" bills is being slowly exposed.Mitt Romney,fresh from his NRA gig will have to stand in front of a National audience this fall and defend the laws that took the life of that child.

It goes on and on and on and all you care about is George going free.That's pretty cute.

NO_LIMIT_NIGGA

"Zimmerman's mug shot."

Jeese,he looks like a kid.

Posted by: dublindave | April 11, 2012 at 09:05 PM

Sara

WTF are you rambling on about, Dub? You must be a criminal because it is criminals who want gun control so that law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. The idea that there is a libtard alive who gives a shit about a young black man is ludicrous. They only care about their vote, once they get that, then it is herd them onto their welfare plantations, keep guns out of their hands, tell them what to do and when to do it, fill their heads full of BS ike yours has been filled, and send the rest of us to the ovens.

DublinDave

(You're the guy who said that a recent picture of the 28-year-old Zimmerman made him look like a kid, just before you shared your rape fantasies about him, right?)

I am actually ashamed of some of the things I have said here.Violence is abhorent in any capacity.If you note,I did suggest Zimmerman bringing KY jelly to prison as a means of making whatever ordeal he was about to suffer...go easier.So one could argue I had Zimmermans interests at heart.

But I was being mean, so such an arguement would be redundant.Just like this;"You're the guy who said that a recent picture of the 28-year-old Zimmerman made him look like a kid".


Sure,but I didn't lie about my initial reaction,now did I.And the lie is the contention.

Frau Mit-und-bei

That's the best DuDa has? That's not a lie and certainly not a lie-lie.
Bring better trolls!

If you want unabashed lies, look to Mr. Crump. He is riding the terrible grief of Trayvon Martin's parents to the bank.

El Bango

Z's attorney knew exactly what Z was going to say on the stand. Z was able to get a few points out and all the prosecutor could do was stammer and look like a fool.

Thug from a distance in a hoodie most likely a teen. Tatted up 6'3 thug up close, not so young, especially when he begins a vicious attack. Luckily Z was able to defend himself or else he would have been dead. Judge thought so too, instead of no bail, it was $15k cash. Plus judge got a good laugh out of prosecutors references to Z's prior run in's with the law.

DublinDave

"On the 911 tape Zimmerman stated that Martin was in his late teens(practially on the button)"

"That's the first I hear of this. Another Crump invention? If true, I'd like to see it."

FROM THE 911 TAPE;Zimmerman: He’s got buttons on his shirt, late teens.

Dispatcher: Late teens, ok.


Obviously Zimmerman he lied to Martin's parents,that's not even in contention.I guess you could argue about how big a lie it was or it's signifigance to the case etc etc

But WHY did he lie?People lie to cover up things,I mean it's the basic anatomy of a lie,right. whether it's your husband explaining how lipstick got on his shirt or your kid exaplaining why his breath smells of cigarette smoke.

Zimmerman lied.That's a fact.

Now, what exactly is he covering up?

Some guy

[sniff]

[sniff]

sooooooo sad.

Sara

What did he lie about. Trayvon was a late teen and he is a few years younger than George Zimmerman. They do have math remedial classes at the community colleges, just FYI.

Caspar Weinburger

Dublin Dave:

When Zimmerman first saw TM, he thought he was in his late teens.

When Zimmerman was hit and pummelled and then killed, he thought he looked older than a teenager.

He changed his mind. It would only be a contradiction if he held both mutually exclusive view points . He didn't.

What to try again?

Caspar Weinburger

Edit:

Perhaps when Zimmerman was being hit and pummelled by Trayvon, and when he pulled out his gun to protect himself, he thought TM was older than he first thought.

(I don't know how to delete a post)

Caspar Weinburger

Edit Edit.

Dublin Dave:

When Zimmerman first saw TM, he thought he was in his late teens.

Perhaps when Zimmerman was being hit and pummelled by Trayvon, and when he pulled out his gun to protect himself, he thought TM was older than he first thought.

He changed his mind. It would only be a contradiction if he held both mutually exclusive view points at the same time . He didn't.

What to try again?

test.Ignore this

Caspar Weinburger

Does anyone have the picture of TM with a bunch of his buddies? It shows how big/tall he really is. I saw it somewhere. I can't find it anywhere else.

daddy

Sad news for President Obama..

Enlightened

Zimmerman Mrs. Martin lied.That's a fact. Said right on national TV she knew this was an ACCIDENT.

Now, what exactly is he she covering up? Since she now says it was murder in cold blood.

Enlightened

"People lie to cover up things"

No shit Sherlock.

DrJ

Off

Beasts of England

'Morally objectionable' - no wiggle room there, we all know exactly what that means...

MJW

cboldt: I didn't listen to the hearing, but I understand that Glibreath disclosed DeeDee's real name. Seriously. The name doesn't appear in the transcript, but you can see where it happened.

I found a YouTube video of the relevant part. It doesn't sound to me like the name is disclosed. My interpretation is that O'Mara asks the detective if he knows the ear-witness's name. The detective says he could find out. At that point, the prosecution objects. O'Mara apologizes for asking about the name.

Beasts of England

DD - it doesn't cost extra to use the space bar, dude.

El Bango

"People lie...whether it's your husband explaining how lipstick got on his shirt"

Well DD, it sounds like you are still angry about it. What excuse did your husband give?

Max Regor

Zimmerman did not apologize! He expressed sympathy. This is not the same thing.

cboldt

DoT: -- Enter the staisticians: what are the chances of ending up with six jurors, none of whom is black? --


In the 2010 census, 11% of the people in Seminole county are black. I'm not sure that corresponds with the 18th judicial district, but I'll go with that, and also that the racial makeup of the jury pool mirrors the general population.


Not that it reflects reality, but I'll assume the six jurors are seated at random. The prosecution will be biased to seat black jurors, so I'd think it is a certainty to seat at least one; and would not be surprised in 3 of the 6 were black.


But if the jurors are picked at random, each pick has about an 89% chance of being non-black. In a jury of one, you'd have an 89% chance of it being non-black. Picking six non-blacks in a row is 89%^6 (.89 x .89 x .89 x .89 x .89 x .89), or 49.7%. Picked at random, there is about a 50% chance the jury is all non-black.

MJW: --I found a YouTube video of the relevant part. It doesn't sound to me like the name is disclosed. --


Thanks for checking that out.

Beasts of England

Shown statistical analysis is - at least - slighty flawed. Or perhaps it's missing some caveats and/or assumptions. Will review tomorrow afternoon and report back with absolute moral authority. It'll be a lot like The Beatles performing on The Ed Sullivan Show. Trust me.

cboldt

According to Digital Journal,

O’Mara has filed a motion for discovery to the state, however the state has yet to provide any evidence from the case.
I'm doubting that source, as the reporting states conclusions that are odd or incorrect (e.g., delay in release of Zimmerman is due to fitting of tracking device; bloody head photo is the first shred of evidence supporting Zimmerman's account), but maybe they got that part right.
cboldt

-- Shown statistical analysis is - at least - slighty flawed. --


Yeah, it assumes an infinite pool, unchanged by each pick. But in fact, the odds change slightly after each pick. Plus, I rounded up to from 88.9% to 89% chance on the first pick.


On the Notice of Discovery, the docket now has entries from 20 April, reflecting the Arthur hearing, and a gap between April 12 and April 20. There is no entry of a Notice of Discovery.

cboldt

Looks like the arraignment date has been moved, to May 8th, 1:30 p.m., Courtroom No. 1A. That from a docket entry on April 20th. Arraignment had previously been reported as scheduled for May 29th.

Sara

Does anyone else think the tracking device requirement kind of weird. GZ has been cooperative thruout, he has reached out to the prosecutors, he turned himself in voluntarily, etc. Why are they treating him as a flight risk?

cboldt

-- Does anyone else think the tracking device requirement kind of weird. --


I don't. It gives the court a way to assure itself of his whereabouts. He's free to move about except for curfew, and IIRC, reporting in each 3 days. I think the curfew and no alcohol rules are weird. What if likes a beer with his pizza, or wine with dinner?

Sara

How would they know if he had a beer? Or did they include mandatory pee oor breathalyzer tests? And I thought most ankle bracelets required you to be within a certain distance of the base unit or is that old technology and now one can roam anywhere?

cboldt

-- I thought most ankle bracelets required you to be within a certain distance of the base unit or is that old technology and now one can roam anywhere? --


There is more than one technology. Restricted to home would use a base unit and bracelet. GPS allows him to roam within whatever range the court restricts him to. I suspect the sheriff will have no objection to Zimmerman being out of state; and that the prosecutor wants to nail Zimmerman to a cross in the public square, the sooner the better.


-- How would they know if he had a beer? Or did they include mandatory pee oor breathalyzer tests? --


No testing, that I know of, and no in-person reporting in. I assume the only way he gets caught in violation of bail conditions is via being found in suspicion of some other offense.

Bruce
I don't. It gives the court a way to assure itself of his whereabouts. He's free to move about except for curfew, and IIRC, reporting in each 3 days. I think the curfew and no alcohol rules are weird. What if likes a beer with his pizza, or wine with dinner?
I think that it is window dressing. This is 2nd degree murder, and $150k is probably a bit low for that, esp. given how high profile this is. Guy who Beat Up White Man Because he was Mad About Trayvon Martin Case had bail set at $80k, over half the amount set for Zimmerman. He was charged with attempted robbery, aggravated battery, and a hate crime, all felonies, but far lower than 2nd degree murder.

Zimmerman's attorney seemed to know that the judge wanted here, and offered it up front. And, I think that the court and prosecution gave up the big one - allowing Zimmerman to reside out of state, due to the security issues.

cboldt

Beasts of England, more information for your upcoming statistical tour de force.

Seminole Country Clerk of the Courts reports a total of 26,900 jurors were called, and 333 cases were tried. That doesn't tell us the size of the pool on any given jury selection day, but it might be useful.

A pool of 80, with 71 non blacks, is 11.25% black, pretty close to the county-wide census. But of course, the pool is more likely to NOT be exactly 71/80.

cboldt

-- This is 2nd degree murder, and $150k is probably a bit low for that, esp. given how high profile this is. --


Probably the most heavily weighted factor for the amount of bail is the resources available to defendant. If Zimmerman's family, or he, was wealthy, bail would have been higher.


If the judge finds him a flight risk or a danger to the community, he stays in jail.

Jane

Clarice,

Today's PIeces is so funny that I waded thru all dudu's moronic ramblings to tell you. It was made even more worthwhile when I encountered Daddy's link which resulted in me loudly laughing for the 2 nd time before 7AM.

Sara

Wow, just heard Pennsylvania and New York and on North may be getting up to 18 inches of snow tonight. Stay safe everyone.

Bob

The photo of Z's bleeding head has thrown the entire Martin contingent into a spinning frenzy. He was supposed to be uninjured according to major media misreporting and video altering. Misdirection over minutia such as Z's perception of Martin's age is a clear indicator that the spin war is headed downhill for them. Bleeding heads and broken noses don't mean that Z was in fear of his life or great bodily harm. What's a little blood? What is a smashed face? It doesn't really hurt. Oh, and that photo is fake anyway. Crump, Martin Inc must be looking at sunk costs. I hope is malpractice insurance is current.

Jack is Back!

Sunday's with Clarice

Clarice,

We'll see. Sometime next week he is on Jimmie Fallon and then Jimmy Kimmel will supposedly roast him at the WHCA dinner. My bet is that the honeymoon continues but just a tad bit colder.

Jack is Back!

Poor GZ has to call Terry Jones and ask him not to come to Sanford.

The last thing he needs is this weirdo speaking up for him.

Jones makes Sharpton sound lucid.

Clarice

Thanks Jane. Good point JiB. I'm waiting for the comics to jump in.

xyz

Over at Conservative Tree House they are discussing whether DeeDee was really on the phone with TM at 7:12 Pacific Time or Eastern. Call log appears to in Pacific which means not. See.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/

And

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf

Cecil Turner

Over at Conservative Tree House they are discussing whether DeeDee was really on the phone with TM at 7:12 Pacific Time or Eastern. Call log appears to in Pacific which means not.

So they had a 4-minute call 3 hours after he was dead?

narciso

A great morsel to start the day,Clarice, like a well toasted croissant,

xyz

Call times just seem weird along with so many other things.

narciso

In answer why Hillary's crack research staff missed this, Legum, who just makes facts or otherwises misses the point entirely, was their staff director.

narciso

He strayed away from NBC's fabrication, but otherwise followed the template for what would come ;


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/

xyz

Active thread.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/22/update-11-trayvon-martin-shooting-final-deconstruction-of-benjamin-crumps-media-evidence/

Cecil Turner

Non-replacement does make a difference, dropping the percentage slightly, and the effect is more pronounced as the pool shrinks. If the pool is representative (e.g., 18 jurors, 2 black), the chances of a no-black six person jury is 16*15*14*13*12*11/18*17*16*15*14*13 or 43% (as opposed to 52+% with an infinite pool).

Still, the probability is around 50-50. But I'd expect the racial focus to warp the result. My guess is that disproportionate willingness to serve amongst blacks and reluctance to strike black jurors peremptorily would make it less likely to be an all-white jury.

narciso

It used to be Orlando is where one would appeal, to balance out some jury malpractice,
re certain cases, that's why they made sure
to seed the prospective pool, with Cobalt 60


http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/15/western-nations-caved-on-nuclear-enrichment-boasts-irans-revolutionary-guards/

NK

Status of case:

1. State's evidence production: Transcript of the Bond hearing has the Judge advising the State and O'Mara that he's going to promptly deal with the MEDIA's motions for access to court records. de la Rionda and O'Mara both knew what he was talking about-- but since I haven't seen the case docket it's unclear what exactly they were all talking about-- but boy did de la Rionda tap dance around releasing info to the media and the State's need to 'protect' witnesses. de la Rionda 'implied' that he had received the Defense's 15 Day Discovery Notice, and flatly said he had not yet responded , and again tap danced around when he would. While implying he was going to 'work it out' with O'Mara, it sure as heck sounds like the State will hold things back until the Court orders the State to deliver everything O'Mara asks for.

2. Bond Amount: Bruce makes a very good point. $150K BOND (NOT cash) is very low. Florida has a statutory PRESUMPTION of NO Bond in a Murder 2 case. That means the People of Fla expect a Murder 2 Def to sit in Jail pending trial. Not here -- $150K Bond. So O'Mara overcame that presumption PLUS GZ's prior arrest for pushing an off-duty cop and a civil dispute with an ex-girlfriend who called 911 on him. Despite ALL that Judge Lester granted Bond -- but more importantly was the amount. Yes the Zimmerman family is not well off, but the dad promised to put up his home equity to buy the bond, there were some 'resources' there. IMO -- Lester set Bond so low because he thinks the Murder 2 case is very weak. He certainly didn't treat the Bond Hearing like a Murder2 case.

cboldt

Call Log


I noticed that Pacific Time note too, and chalked it up to a T-Mobile error or similar. The log as presented by the press is a printout of a webpage report - who knows what sorts of translations are made by T-Mobile as it generates the web page; and who knows how the report was generated by Martin/Crump. The account has 4 lines.


It would be pretty funny if Corey's team of crack investigators was bamboozled by a complete fabrication of evidence. You'd think they'd want something more concrete than just Tracy Martin's redacted phone bill as reported from a web page - like DeeDee's phone bill showing the other end, access to the call logs from the phone company instead of from Crump, etc.

GMax

Well if the jury pool is formed from the voting registration lists in the county, as it is here, then the propensity of blacks to fail to register to vote will mean that the potential jury pool will not be 11% but something less, perhaps significantly less.

Didnt Crump and the Democrats have a tough time getting voter registrations at the St Trayvon rally a few weeks back?

jimmyk

Isn't the pool a random draw from the population? If so, then non-replacement doesn't matter. Also, doesn't each side get a certain number of challenges? I'm sure the defense won't hesitate to challenge blacks, which would make it more likely to have an all-white/Hispanic jury.

Of course, there's a good chance this will never even get to the stage of jury selection.

narciso

Considering it took them 30 years (give or take to spot Myers),

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/21/2760939_p3/the-hit-teams-that-carried-out.html

NK

Phone Record: Why wouldn't the State of Fla Detectives go by the book and serve an information subpoena (in comnnection with an open police file) on T-Mobile to get a company account record 'certified' by the corporate secy.

narciso

Well you raise an interesting question, NK, but the most obvious one, was when did they
get the bill, that would show Dee Dee's number
along with the time stamp.

Captain Hate

Wow, Mitch Daniels on FNS stating how out of touch El JEFe is and will be on the plight of citizens who are hurting in the economy. Chris Wallace doing his best to channel his dead old man by giving the Indonesian every benefit of the doubt per the MFM blah blah but Mitch is having none of it.

narciso

Irony, it has a smooth taste;


http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/20/2759949/keep-the-record-open.html#disqus_thread

NK

Narc-- I agree with you, but complete company records were needed to do a thorough investigation. the T-Mobile company records should show who this girl was talking to, who TMartin was talking to etc. If the whole Crump story about their conversation is BS, the State could find that out by cross checking the complete phone records of the 2 accounts. Looking at bills might or might not show that.

boatbuilder

DubDave--The question you ought to be asking yourself is: Why did the state's investigator feel the need to lie--to make sworn assertions regarding Z's actions for which he now admits he has no evidence--on a sworn affidavit in support of the charge against Zimmerman?

Assume that Z is guilty of everything you believe he is guilty of (and that assumes a great deal). Doesn't the behavior of the prosecution trouble you? If this was an assault charge against Trayvon Martin, and the state's affidavit was this flimsy, wouldn't you consider this a railroading?

centralcal

I love Sunday mornings. Clarice's Pieces weekly column and Captain Hate giving us Sunday morning talk show's recaps.

narciso

No, you only need the calls for that day, anything else is just the cherry on top,
like did she call the parents subsequently,
why did none of the neighbors notify Tracey and co,

boatbuilder

I am not a criminal lawyer, but in a civil case there is a Motion to Strike or Demurrer, which basically says that even if everything the plaintiff says is true they don't have a case.

Doesn't the State's case against Zimmerman, best case scenario for the state, involve "reasonable doubt?" Aren't they admitting in the affidavit that they don't really know what happened? "A struggle ensued?" You can get in a fight with a depraved and racist state of mind--but unless the state proves that you murdered the victim--or at a minimum that you struck the first blow--, all you have is "proof" that the defendant is a really bad person.

Captain Hate

Wow even Joe Trippi is conceding that El JEFe isn't very popular. Rove, whom I hate with the heat of a million supernovas but I respect when it comes to talking about campaign money, is again noting the incredible burn rate of the Indonesian's campaign cash.

NK

Boatbuilder-- very fair point about how we are all scrutinizing the State's conduct here. For the last 6 weeks I've found it ironic, in the sense that some people here who are tough on crime and supporters of law and order (like me), want a Murder2 defendant to walk with almost no questions asked. I know that's an unfair generalization about individual comments, but this case is showing us how Florida treats criminal defendants-- it treats them harshly. Over 30 years ago, Florida got fed up with gun violence, and Florida has since passed a lot of laws to protect against violent criminals. And alot of prosecutors get re-elceted by overcharging and generally being tough on crime (like Corey)It's completely fair to believe the laws are being misapplied against GZ, that's probably true. But GZ is not the only defendant who is getting the back of the hand from Florida, many young men do. I am trying to remember that and keep some perspective.

GMax

Yes if malice is a requirement for Murder 2, I see no evidence in the record of it, and I see no hope of the prosecution producing evidence of malice. The overcharging here is going to cost the State in my opinion. I think the sympathy for ending up in the same position as Jorge Zimmerman is going to make jurors angry at the State abusing their power here. But the judge may well just end the farce at the immunity hearing anyway. Really, I want their to be some consequences for the bad behavior of the prosecutor and maybe the Governor, but I wont hold my breath waiting.

NK

Narc-- right again about that day being most important, But ... you know there's always a but.'. the records from all of january and feb are important context. How long did this girl know TMartin? , how often did they speak?, did they text? That kind of contect is important to access credibility-- of course that assume's the State considers witness credibility important BEFORE bringing a Murder 2 charge. hell, Florida may not care-- Body + 9mm = Murder 2 Charge, let the Court figure it out.

GMax

He is a murder2 defendant because it appears the prosecutor blantantly ignored the law. So its a little self serving to wrap your self serving feel good statement about law and order using that bit of canard as a wrapper.

Jack is Back!

Boat,

This whole case is more politics than law or finding of facts or justice. I don't think any of the process you lawyers practice is that relevant here - its probably all about trying to find a way out of this without pissing off one community versus another. This is what happens when you subrogate your professionalism and juirisprudence to the mob.

The perfect storm of SCOTUS overturning ObamaCare, Zimmerman walking and DogEater losing the POTUS will soon be upon us. No wonder gun sales are going through the roof and more and more people are learning re-loading.

Danube of Thought

"On the 911 tape Zimmerman stated that Martin was in his late teens(practially on the button).So stating that he thought Martin was a little bit younger than himself,28, is a complete fabrication."

Perhaps when he'd been decked and was getting his head stove in he revised his estimate upward a bit.

NK

GMax-- I don't think what you say about public reaction is true historically. To my knowledge, Corey has a very high rate of 'overcharging' (according to the 'overworked' judges and court clerks in her jurisdiction), but she has a very high guilty plea bargain and conviction rate, and she has no primary opponent this coming election so it looks like she'll be easily re-elected. So, people in her county seem to like her 'going after' gun violence criminals.

Porchlight

For the last 6 weeks I've found it ironic, in the sense that some people here who are tough on crime and supporters of law and order (like me), want a Murder2 defendant to walk with almost no questions asked.

6 weeks? He's only been a Murder2 defendant for a week and a half. And he never should have been one at all.

Rick Ballard

Perhaps we should contemplate degrees of fabrication by comparison with the sound of a shove as heard on a phone and the sight of shadows through drapes. Was it the sound of a hard shove? A light push? A single finger poke in the shoulder characterized as a shove? Was the lighter shadow behind the darker shadow or in front of the darker shadow? Did it appear as if the darker shadow was pulling away (or catching up) or did the shadows remain equidistant during the entire time they flitted across the drapes?

If I were sitting on a jury forced to listen to such testimony, I would ask my fellow jury members to join me in finding the prosecutor guilty of a felonious assault upon reason.

NK

Porch-- TMaguire has cover GZ (like a blanket since the second-third week of March or so, it's really been almost 6 weeks here already-- time flies.

Porchlight

NK, you said that you find it ironic that for the last six weeks people here have wanted a Murder2 defendant to walk, no questions asked. He has only been a Murder2 defendant for a week and a half, and by your own lights was overcharged, so either the 6 weeks part isn't relevant, or the Murder2 charge isn't relevant (for most of that time).

Danube of Thought

Jimmyk, non-replacement matters because, although the day's pool is selected randomly from the population at large, once that selection is made the ultimate jury comes from that limited group of perhaps 30 (I would think probably something more than 30).

Each side gets six peremptories.

It is very hard for me to imagine a black juror voting to acquit.

cboldt

-- This whole case is more politics than law or finding of facts or justice. --


And about the extent that politics and mendacious press can corrupt law and justice.

windansea

So they had a 4-minute call 3 hours after he was dead?

Posted by: Cecil Turner | April 22, 2012 at 08:22 AM

possible that Dee Dee called TM´s cell after he was shot and left a message on his voicemail?

Extraneus

I don't mind the idea of tough-nosed prosecutors, but I only want them to go after people who are guilty.

I don't think that Corey or the people who signed that affidavit believe that Zimmerman is guilty.

Cecil Turner

The irony/hypocrisy charge is a tough sell. Zimmerman is the law-and-order type here, taking it upon himself to do community watch duties. And whether or not I agree with all his decisions leading up to the fateful encounter, nothing was in the slightest criminal.

And if it transpires that the rest of the evidence supports the interpretation that Trayvon Martin assaulted and beat Zimmerman until the latter decided to shoot him--as the currently available evidence overwhelmingly does--that still doesn't make Zimmerman a criminal . . . only Martin. So explain to me again, why is it ironic that I think the non-criminal should walk?

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Wilson/Plame