One For The Archives

I wish I had seen this last week - a fellow toured the Retreat at Twin Lakes, talked to neighbors, and recreated the scene of the Trayvon Martin killing.  He posted his results on March 22. His photos of the covered patios are gold.

He also claims to have an answer to my question - where was Zimmerman's car parked?  Tie that in to Zimmerman's address as provided by the Times diorama and Zimmerman's path seems quite clear.  I am quoting myself here:

The Times adds Zimmerman's house, which raises a new question about his driving route to the Target for groceries.  His most direct route to the main entrance seems to have him overtaking Martin from behind.  Which suggests what?  That he followed along slowly behind him?

A more circuitous route has Zimmerman up Twin Trees Lane, so Martin would have crossed his path from in front.  One wonders which direction his car was parked when it was finally recovered.  This is one more thing to puzzle over about Zimmerman's story.

Apparently his car was parked on the side of the street consistent with overtaking Martin from behind.

Otherwise, we all seem to agree on the location of the killing and the likely paths taken by everyone. As to the rest of the narrative, maybe not so much, but a lot is speculation.

DETECTIVE OBVIOUS HERE: One of the major mysteries of this incident is, how did Martin and Zimmerman meet up?  Martin seemed to have been well ahead of Zimmerman and hoofing it for home, less than a miute away.  How did they meet?

One can see from the pics posted by MarinaDave that each back patio has an overhang. One can easily imagine Trayvon Martin flitting from one back patio to the next along the houses that front Retreat View Circle and back on to Twin Trees Lane in order to avoid the rain.

Zimmerman eventually parks on the opposite side of the street from those houses and observes. Martin sees him, checks him out, moves on, and, per Zimmerman, runs.

But what did Martin see?  Zimmerman may simply have been a mysterious, mencaing figure in a SUV.

Now Zimmerman gets out of the car and goes on his walkabout.  In the old narrative a 5'9" man of 250 pounds got out of the SUV and no one had a real compelling explanation for why Martin turned back to assault this mountain in motion.

But now the Times has downsized Zimmerman to 170 lbs, and the possibilites change.  Once he is out of the car, the mysterious menacing figure Martin once saw is revealed as a shortish guy about Martin's size.  From this he was running?  Martin's confidence spikes, he approaches Zimmerman, and...

Marina Dave's guess is almost as good as mine, and if you can't conjure at least five scenarios you lack imagination.  Over to Marina Dave:

Here’s where it gets tricky. If a nutbasket like Zimmerman came up to me, I’d want to know who gave him the authority to question who I am and why I’m anywhere. I’d ask him if he were a cop. No? Then get out of my face. It’s none of his business. That’s a natural reaction. Someone pushed first. It doesn’t matter who, because, in no time at all, a senseless vigilante pulled out his weapon and shot an innocent person dead on the spot.

Well, not so fast.  This is a homeowners association, not public property, so trespassing is a live issue.  People who belong there actually do have the right to confront people they don't recognize, if we limit "confront" to conversation. And one might hope a similar right to a "Hello, neighbor, can I help you" exists on the public sidewalks of America, in this era of New Civility.

Zimmerman's story is that Martin introduced himself with a blow to Zimmerman's face.  I can imagine that.  I can also imagine an exchange of words, Zimmerman saying let's wait for the cops, Martin saying he plans to make like a tree and leave, Zimmerman grabbing his arm to restrain him, Martin punching him in the face to enlighten him, and here we are.

I don't know what happened, and I think they can investigate this forever and we still won't know.  And if Zimmerman took a few blows to the head, he may not know either, even if he thinks he does.  If we ever get to trial, remember where you heard about a defense motion to dismiss all his statements to the police on the basis of head trauma and PTSD.  (Don't worry, I'll remind you.)

In this country, we don't send people to jail on the theory that we don't know if they are guilty or not.

UNRELATED: Think how far ahead of the Elite Media the blogosphere was on this story, for people who looked.  The NY Times has a great diorama but where are their pictures showing the sheltered patios under which Trayvon Martin probably got out of the rain?

Comments

[Extraneus]

I'm sorry, I hate to go OT so soon, but I don't understand why I have an Obama-Biden ad from Michelle asking if I'm in. I'm not, but I did notice what others have mentioned about her eyeballs being unmatched. Do we have any reason to believe that she has a glass eye? Has there been a report of a childhood injury that might explain the pic?

[PaulL]

Janet's link at 4:56 in the thread a couple down is really interesting. I think Tom has missed all this. (Or maybe I missed Tom seeing it.)

7:15:40

Within ten seconds the fight has begun. DeeDee gets hung up on.

DeeDee’s account:

“Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn’t answer the phone.”

Zimmerman’s account:

Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman’s mouth and tells him to “Shut the fuck up,” and continues to pound on him.

LUN

[daddy]

OT on the recent Anchorage Municipal Election.

On Tuesday we had our Election for Mayor, for a couple School Board members, and for 7 Ballot Propositions.

A lot of stink has ensued, because a number of people were not allowed to vote because they ran out of ballots at a number of voting precincts. This has caused much stink, with challenges to the flawed =Election process coming from 2 primary groups,

1) The group sponsoring a losing Gay/Lesbian/Transgender rights Ballot
2) The losing Mayoral Candidate, Lefty Assemblymen Paul Honemann.

All the other Ballot measures passed.

Was a very nasty campaign by Honemann, an ex-Policeman who called our re-elected Mayor a "bigot" and whose ad said anyone who voted for the Mayor was "a dummy."

Honemann aligned himself with the group sponsoring the Gay/Lesbian Ballot, heavily funded by out of State Gay
Advocacy groups.

The big losers in the Tuesday Election by votes?

Honemann and the Gay Ballot. Both got clobbered big time. 59-41%

So now the issue has turned into a big stink, being investigated by ACLU, the usual Left Wing suspects, etc, and its hitting newspapers according to my Googling. Big stink has been made and fingers are being pointed towards the Mayor as being to blame, but it has just been reported that the County Clerk, who is responsible for the Ballots and the Election, is not under the Mayor, but is instead under the supervision of 2 Assembly members, 1 of which is angry loser Honemann. Ha!

Anyhow, here is an ADN story on it with some partial info: Ballot shortage at some polls prompts review of city election.

I posted this because due to our small population our City Election is a big deal and many of our previous Governors and Senators started off as Mayor of Anchorage. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Mayor Sullivan as our next Governor or as a candidate against Begich for Ted's stolen Senate seat in I think 2014.

[Tom Maguire]

I think Tom has missed all this

I missed that specific thread but I strongly suspect I picked up an earlier reference to the, hmm, Wagist post with a map and detailed timeline.

My quibble, posted days ago - these clocks are good to the minute but the action happened in seconds.

So a cell phone call that "started" at 7:12 may have started at 7:12:55; presumably the same is true of the 911 call log at least as we have seen it.)

What I saw was very ingenious, but had that flawed premise. IIRC.

[boatbuilder]

TM--Really? That Marinade Dave guy simply repeats and takes at face value every single unsubstantiated claim put out by Crump, goes in with a preconcieved narrative, and cites zero evidence for his assumptions about what happened in his "recreation." The one person he talked to doesn't live in the gated community and doesn't know what happened, and Dave doesn't quote him--just uses him to support his own prejudices.
Are you just cleverly reminding us that we shouldn't take your talent and hard work for granted?

[ThomasD]

Reading that post in it's entirety I'm not real comfortable placing any trust, given the obvious tone, admitted bias, unnamed sources, and inclusion of erroneous (and now uncorrected) information.

That said, the map is informative.

Whatever foot chase their was it sure could not have lasted very long.

Either they both made it past the location of the shooting, in which case they both came back to the spot of the fatal confrontation.

Or Zimmerman really did manage to run down and get in front of Martin - at or near the location of the shooting.

So, now it's not a fight between a 'big man' who grossly outweighs the helpless child; it's a stubby near forty year old outrunning the lanky high school football player...

ok...

[boatbuilder]

And it really is "Marinade Dave," not MarinaDave.

[PaulL]

Was it mentioned before that Zimmerman and Martin may have met up twice during this thing?

[Pops]

Bottom line, we aren't going to get to the bottom of this until NBC publishes their baby pictures.

[Pops]

UPDTE...MSNBC publishes sonogram pictures of fetus Trayvon...declares Zimmerman guilty!

[cboldt]

-- Was it mentioned before that Zimmerman and Martin may have met up twice during this thing? --

Yes. It was in a March 28 WaPo story "Tracy Martin recounts police version of son Trayvon's death"

A police detective told the father of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin that his son initiated two confrontations with the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot him.

LUN

[Jane]

Question: How much attention is this thing getting these days?

[cboldt]

The story is getting much less attention, now that the narrative is at risk.

The media-created myth will persist and be used by thugs to justify attacking innocent people. That won't be reported either, it doesn't fit the racist-whitey narrative.

[hit and run]

From Instapundit earlier:

WASHINGTON POST: Obama’s Supreme Court comments lead some to question his strategy. “Even some legal scholars sympathetic to Obama and the health-care law are saying that the president might have been better off keeping quiet.” And the ones who aren’t saying it, are thinking it.

Let's be honest -- there has never in the history of mankind been any subject for which the bolded part was not true for Obama.

But here's my campaign advice to Team Obama: Let's double-down on the "he looks like my son" and "women should be allowed to join Augusta" stuff.

More Obama on more subjects that have nothing to do with the presidency!

This message brought to you by the Campaign To See More Obama More Visibly On Carp He Has No Business Weighing In On Because He Thinks It Will Rally Some Special Interest Group To Donate Money To Him

[Janet]

More news on Kiriakou

"A CIA intelligence officer between 1990 and 2004, Kiriakou was accused in the indictment of leaking information to reporters anonymously identified as "Journalist A" and "Journalist B.""

[Jane]

Yeah but will it work? Obviously he is going for the people who pay absolutely no attention. Will it work?

[narciso]

We know at least one reporter was Scott Shane,
the other might have been Dana Priest

[narciso]

You know I haven't seen that memoir anywhere since the indictment came down, in any local
library, or bookstore, it's rather extraordinary,

[Gmax]

Will it work?

Hasn't so far. Look at favorable/unfavorable in RAS. And Zero appears just as imcompetent at being a demagogue as about anything else he tries. Taking on the Supreme court is just the most recent of a long string of epic fail.

[PaulL]

Thank you, cboldt.

I've read about a hundred times more on this case than I normally would have (such is my attachment to JOM), but I hadn't noticed that part before.

[scott]

First coons, then punks, now cold. What will the filters tell us next?

The raw data still sounds to me as "He's f***ing close" but I could buy cold. It probably fits with initial conditions better i.e. temp vs Martins proximity. There's no way any expert will testify that it's a racial slur, so kiss the fed rap goodbye.

I hope someone intelligent talks to the girlfriend before Crump puts her in jeapordy. There's no reason to subject her to cross -- Let her walk away.

[PaulL]

Gmax,

The troubling thing to me is the move of independents to Ibama in the swing states.

LUN

[matt]

NBC knows a guy who knows a guy who said.....

[hit and run]

I heard it from a friend who...heard it from a friend who...heard from another you've been messin' around.

[Rick Ballard]

PaulL,

That's a very small independent sample - the MoE on that poll is 6. I agree that it's troubling.

[Soylent Red]

Do we have any reason to believe that she has a glass eye?

Well she certainly doesn't have an eye for fashion.

[Ignatz]

--First coons, then punks, now cold. What will the filters tell us next?--

Heh.

[Ignatz]

--Gmax,

The troubling thing to me is the move of independents to Ibama in the swing states.--

I'll start worrying about Nov 5th.
Which by my calculation gives me 7 months to either worry about stuff I can control or, if I had any brains, nothing at all.

[narciso]

A 6 point MOE, and they trumpet a one point lead well within the standard deviation

[Elliott]

This is a compelling post on why and how this all spun out the way it did. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/05/trayvon-martin-the-heart-of-the-agenda-exposing-the-real-family-motive-in-the-words-of-their-attorney/#more-37069

Florida law does not allow civil action in justifiable use of force cases unless there has been a arrest (no conviction needed) by the person using force. Evidence immediately indicated that force was justified therefore a campaign by the attorney for the parents of Martin had to be ginned up to permit suits filed against Zimmerman, the townhouse HOA and even the city of Sanford.

[xbradtc]

Is that one of the polls that oversamples Dems +24?

[Pofarmer]

So, what exactly makes Zimmerman a "nutbasket?"

[Janet]

Remind me to never click on a Huffington Post link. Never again. I am done with them.

[narciso]

This is an old link, but it illustrates the taxonomy of the journolists

http://www.mrc.org/business-and-media-institute/top-journalists-serve-soros-funded-boards-directors-or-advisers

One of those local members on the list, Gustavo Godoy, often says the most ridiculous
statements, now we know why.

[Rob Crawford]

So, what exactly makes Zimmerman a "nutbasket?"

Doing such offensive things as helping a kid wandering alone, keeping an eye on a neighbor's house, protesting police misconduct...

[hit and run]

Posted by: Elliott | April 05, 2012 at 09:25 PM

ELLIOTT!!!11!!!!11!!

Took the fam to a local sportsbar tonight for dinner and caught lefty at the Masters a little bit.

I would be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about you.

Very glad to see you. You doing well?

First day done,who you favouring now?

[bgates]

This is a homeowners association, not public property, so trespassing is a live issue. People who belong there actually do have the right to confront people they don't recognize, if we limit "confront" to conversation.

True on public property as well, yes?

[boatbuilder]

C'mon, Po--He stalked an angelic, innocent kid armed only with skittles after training as a neighborhood watch guy specifically for the purpose of hunting down and shooting said kid, and called the police before he did so they'd be there to clear him of any wrongdoing after he did the deed. Obviously a nutbasket.

[Jane]

he's favoring Phil, Hit. Where ya been?

I, OTOH am touting my Tiger keychain...

[narciso]

'You can't always get what you want'

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/04/breitbart-is-here-uw-disciplines-20-doctors-for-handing-out-fake-sick-notes-to-protesters-andrew-breitbart/

[daddy]

So no more Media cacophony about ca"Coon"phony?

[hit and run]

Jane:
he's favoring Phil, Hit. Where ya been?

Duh,Jane. I wasn't asking him who he's pulling for. I thought the reference to "lefty" in my comment might have been hint enough that I knew.

Elliott's golf Phil-o-sophy is lefty-ism.

I'm asking him as a betting man -- who would he be willing to place cold hard cash on after day one.

Phil's 7 back and Tiger's 5 back after day one.

Eh,forget it. JiB -- who you betting on.

[daddy]

Interesting coincidence---on the day the first missile fired from Egypt lands in Israel, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood meet officials at The White House.

[narciso]

And Mama Ismail, while waiting on her green card, apparently disqualifies his son's presidential ambitions, leading to the embrace
of the sensible Brotherhood candidate, 'Am I the only one not on crazy pills'

[Tom Maguire]

TM--Really? That Marinade Dave guy simply repeats and takes at face value every single unsubstantiated claim put out by Crump...

The narrative is not fully persuasive but the pictures are gold. I especially love seeing the sheltered patios at the backs of buildings. IIRC it was Trayvon's girlfriend who said he stepped out of the rain. Where?

[hit and run]

TM saying "IIRC" regarding the Trayvon case is like me saying . . . "have I had 3 or 4 beers".

Obsession is what you make of it.

[Matt]

So, what exactly makes Zimmerman a "nutbasket?"

A hint about where the fellow is coming from:

Why, in God’s name, anyone like him needs to carry a gun in his capacity as a nobody with no authority whatsoever is beyond me. Today, he is a murderer in my book.

The answer "because he is a law-abiding American citizen and he damn well wants to carry concealed" is good enough in my book. Maybe he doesn't want to end up like this less nutty neighbor of his: http://glpiggy.net/2012/04/04/hammer-attack-near-sanford-florida-what-about-racially-profiling-victims/

[narciso]

Plus I don't see the gate, at either side, of the complex,

[Tom Maguire]

Either they both made it past the location of the shooting, in which case they both came back to the spot of the fatal confrontation.

Zimmerman says (by way of dad) he walked all the way through to next street (Retreat View Circle), then came back.

Scary job by cboldt on the two meetings. I don't see that in the Times big wrap; confirmation would have been nice (and how did it not make it onto Zimmerman's 911 call?

[Matt]

Maybe "two meetings" just refers to the "he is coming toward me" in the 911 call, followed by the fatal encounter a few minutes later. I can see eye contact constituting an "encounter" in day to day speech.

[hit and run]

TM:
Scary job by cboldt

Ever since you linked Jeralyn,I've had flashbacks to the Libby case. cboldt's appearance has accentuated it.

All for the good.

I haven't to date welcomed cboldt back. That's because I'm not a band wagoner.

I do so now as a fiercely independent wisher of weclomes.

That's how I roll.

[narciso]

Honestly, how can one even begin to communicate someone like this;

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/05/2733958/shift-responsibility.html

[narciso]

The Levick press contingent is focusing on that 'poor little putty cat' Al Nashiri's
stay at Stare Frejutska, (sic), including
cheering the prosecution of those who lent us the facilities, the lives of 17 crewmen of the
USS Cole, might as well be an oversight.

[Rick Ballard]

"Plus I don't see the gate, at either side, of the complex"

Narciso,

The gate is there. It's across the street from the complex in question. Marinasshole needed to juice the "gated community" angle so he walked across the street, trespassed on the adjacent property and took the shot back through the gate belonging to the adjacent property to make his fairy tale more exciting.

I'd say that Marinasshole is ready for the MFM.

[MTF]

After Reverand Al suggested race riots would be the appropriate thing for Sanford, should the state not indict Zimmerman, you know what happened? He got invited to the White House for a "prayer breakfast".

[Ignatz]

This WH is just one big middle finger to the rest of us.

[narciso]

TM, if you're link the crazy, we have plenty on tap here, from the man who broadened our cultural horizons in the 90s

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2012-03-29/news/federal-trayvon-martin-probe-is-just-a-coverup/

[Ignatz]

At least G Zimmerman and company have finally tossed Alan Grayson and Michelle O in favor of CCW ads, for me anyway.

[narciso]

No, he's still haunting that corner, like the eponymous 'Leprechaun' of the films

[Art]

The correction is here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/pageoneplus/corrections-april-6.html?ref=corrections

As promised.

[narciso]

Nothing to see here,

http://www.yalibnan.com/2012/04/05/france-us-un-concerned-over-geageas-atempted-assassination/

It's interesting in Widlanski's account, Friedman was out of town, when the SSNP blew up Gemayel,

[bgates]

Excellent typo at Yahoo:
"Obama ready to compaign"
-which I guess is a combination of "campaign" and "complain", which are indeed his two favorite activities.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Newt's got some financial troubles:

In another black eye for Newt Gingrich, the flagship of what's known in Washington as "Newt, Inc.," has filed for bankruptcy. In a Chapter 7 filing in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Northern District of Georgia, The Gingrich Group LLC, doing business as the Center for Health Transformation, filed for bankruptcy Wednesday. (Chapter 7 is "the chapter of the Bankruptcy Code providing for 'liquidation,' that is, the sale of a debtor's nonexempt property and the distribution of the proceeds to creditors," as defined by the federal courts.) The vast majority of Gingrich's net worth is tied up in the Gingrich Group. Gingrich is worth overall between $7.1 million and $31 million, according to his financial disclosure. He lists a promissory note from Gingrich Group as being worth between $5 million and $25 million.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/05/11036798-gingrich-group-files-for-bankruptcy.

[daddy]

OT: ACLU calls for special counsel to investigate Anchorage city election

Best comment so far is from Honeybun:

"I was worried until ACLU got involved. Now I'm REALLY worried."

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

I thought their job is to keep terrorists and illegals out of the country:

DHS: Kinder Surprise Easter eggs 'too dangerous'

[JeremyR]

It is however perfectly legal to confiscate any large amounts of cash you might be carrying, because you just might be a drug dealer.

[Moon]

Who did Deedee call after she heard her boyfriend get shoved by the scary man who was following him?

[Marc Malone]

I remember the dispatcher report showing Zimmerman saying he had lost him. So, he was heading back to his vehicle. That's when the punk jumped him.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for the rest of us, he brought fists to a gunfight. Another thug wannabe removed from the gene pool.

One thing I noticed, was that I have never seen any report saying that Martin had any other wound. IOW, Zimmerman literally never laid a hand on Martin. It was all Martin hitting Zimmerman.

Good thing the gun was concealed, else the punk might have gotten it first. And yes, clearly he needed to be carrying. It is just ignorant to say otherwise.

[Lee Reynolds]

I'm having an increasingly difficult time caring what happened down there in Florida. The antics of the racist left can be thanked for that. Normally I would care a great deal about the death of a 17 year old under questionable circumstances. But since the left has seen fit to turn what should be a matter of facts and evidence into a matter of tribalism and imaginary grievances, I find myself just not caring anymore.

[cboldt]

Blushing at all the re-hi's - almost like old times! The Zimmerman/Martin case is much simpler than the Libby case.

I don't know what to make of the two encounter theory. Marina, no, Marinara, no, Marinade Dave has both of the Trayvon-initiated encounters happening AFTER Zimmerman concludes his call with dispatch. If so, I can understand Serino's skepticism. Why does George not call police after that? "Minutes" elapse between the two encounters

All of my other public pondering on the two encounter theory appears in this thread at FreeRepublic. The speculation can go in many directions, making it complicated. Doesn't change the outcome at all, because the outcome is driven 100% from the final encounter.

[cboldt]

The story fascinates me as another example of the media's ability to sway a majority of the population to adopt a falsehood. Plus, in this case, the media is, itself, race-baiting. It's what they do. It has no room to criticize Sharpton for making up stories, or to criticize the New Black Panthers for unnecessarily stirring the pot.

[cboldt]

We don't have DeeDee's phone log, and Crump won't let DeeDee talk to Sandford PD or Seminole County Sheriff.

[M. Simon]

cboldt,

Election season is on us again. And nostalgia and an Insty link brought me back. This case reminds me of Duke Lacrosse.

I'm not blogging as much as I used to. I'm deep into some electronics stuff in the hopes of furthering the education revolution and making a few bucks. And having fun.

[cboldt]

The case also brings up the same sort of self defense issue as the Bradley / Prosser dust up, where Bradley rushes at Prosser, then blames him. A good number of people claim Trayvon is justified in decking George, because George was watching and following him.

Best of luck to you on advancing the education of those who are seeking it!

[PacRim Jim]

Publish the home addresses of NYT employees.

[fdcol63]

" ... Why does George not call police after that? ...

Why should he? He knew the police were already on their way.

[cboldt]

Well, if both the 1st and 2nd encounters are after the dispatch call that we have heard, and there are minutes between the 1st and 2nd encounter, there's a question in my mind about not calling. In the call we've heard, he sees Martin, says Martin is staring at him, Martin comes closer, Martin sticks his hand in his waistband, then Martin runs. Zimmerman tries to follow, but loses sight.

If we adopt the two encounter theory, Zimmerman gets back to his truck, and the guy he'd lost re-appears, they exchange words, and Martin runs off again. I'd call, to report that the guy I'd lost came back.

I'm thinking this first encounter doesn't have any words, and what is reported as a first encounter is what Zimmerman is describing in the first place. As reported, the two encounter theory comes from Tracy Martin.

[NK]

Thanks TomM-- yesterday I expressed appreciation for TomM calling out and discrediting the media meme that was fabricated, yes fabricated to support the race hustlers and dollar chasing lawyer's 'racist' narrative. Now TomM shows the credible facts that are known and the many possible scenarios. BUT-- even in the worst case scenario for GZ, there's NO EVIDENCE of it at this point. In the 5 weeks since the events, the hustlers and the lawyers have not produced a single witness that discredits GZ. Dee Dee doesn't count, because A, she hasn't been produced and B. the second hand story the hustlers tell on her behalf, don't directly discredit GZ. How do you charge a man under these circumstances? WHY would you charge a man under these circumstances. I look forward to the investigation being completed-- if a new witness we've never heard from discredits GZ and saw a cold blooded killing, well then present that to a GJ; if not? Do you even go to a GJ? because if the GJ does not return a true bill, the hustlers will accuse the State of tanking the case. The hustlers have poisoned the well here.

[Moneyrunner]

What’s especially interesting to me is that the news media’s distortion and lies appears only to have affected the black community, who are apparently ready to believe the narrative of endless and unchanging white racism. A recent poll shows that over 72% of blacks believe that Zimmerman is either guilty or probably guilty of murder while 32% of non-blacks believe that he’s guilty and 11% “strongly” believe that.

It appears that black people are stuck in a time warp where every day is Selma in the 1960s. Ground Hog Day is a reality show.

[narciso]

It's the air raid sirens for the Eloi, moneyrunner, '1984' it's a cookbook.

[cboldt]

The hustlers are going after Corey too. There is a substantial amount of material already out there that has her covering up for police wrongdoing.

The criminal in this encounter is Trayvon Martin. If Martin is not perpetrating a criminal assault, then Zimmerman has no justification for resort to self defense.

Corey could turn the tables on this issue - but I think a direct pointing out of the reality is not in the cards, because doing so is apt to result in bigger crimes by bigger mobs.

[narciso]

Sometimes I think even 'Strange Days' doesn't capture the Clock Work Orange feel of today's news.

[RonF]

Why is everyone saying "Trayvon" and "Zimmerman"? Why not "Trayvon" and "George", or "Martin" and "Zimmerman"? Why is this inconsistent?

Is it because "Martin" doesn't sound black and "George" isn't automatically white? Is it because that way you can get people to think of George as white instead of Hispanic - which is what the eyewitnesses called him and what "progressives" would call him if he was trying to rent an apartment, get a job, be involved in an immigration case or be counted for purposes of apportioning voting districts.

[ThomasD]

Having reviewed the thread it does not appear that everyone is saying "Trayvon" and "Zimmerman."

You are simply adding more erroneous and inflammatory exaggerations to the whole saga.

[Mannie]

The Criminal Zerobama Regime is orchestrating a public lynching of George Zimmerman as a campaign stunt.

Take up the cry:

I am George Zimmerman.

[Foxfier]

Why is everyone saying "Trayvon" and "Zimmerman"?

Probably because folks tend to choose the names that are least common-- "Martin" and "George" are very common when taken out of context, while "Trayvon" and "Zimmerman" are more easily identifiable.

If Zimmerman was Jorge Brown, he's probably be "Jorge;" if Trayvon was "John Jordan," he'd probably be "Jordan." It's possible that they were originally designated for emotional appeal, true-- but from the Devil's Advocate side, calling someone by their first name when you don't know them is something you do to small children, while using a last name is what you do with unfamiliar persons worthy of respect.