The George Zimmerman Bail Hearing

Wow - some days chicken salad and some days Florida state prosecutor.

George Zimmerman will be released on bail, set at $150,000.  The prosecution had asked for $1 million, the defense for $15,000.

CNN has 1, 2, 3 transcripts. Here is the CNN live blog and the Guardian live blog. The single most interesting blog point I have seen made is here; I discuss it below, but you won't see me spoiling the surprise up here.

This was a ghastly opening day for Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, who seemed unprepared and admitted as much:

"Mr. Gilbreath, I didn't know we were going to be trying the case, I'm going to add up -- I apologize."

Hello!  Maybe the prosecutor should have prepped himself by reading up on 'Arthur' hearings:

Jeff Weiner, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers who practices in Miami, said Zimmerman was not necessarily entitled to release on bail. He faces up to life in prison for second-degree murder, a crime for which suspects in Florida are not usually afforded bail.

But if Angela Corey, the special prosecutor assigned to the case, wants to oppose his release, she will have to preview at least some of the evidence the state has against Zimmerman in proceedings known in Florida as an Arthur hearing, Weiner said.

“The state has the burden of proof to go forward and convince the judge that proof of guilt is evident and that the presumption of guilt is great … That’s what this hearing is about,” Weiner said.

Well, maybe the prosecution got the wrong instructional video.

It's hard to pick the lowest of the low, but the darker moments for the prosecution included:

- The admission by co-lead investigator that he had not personally interviewed George Zimmerman;

- the admission that he had not requested Zimmerman's medical records from the hospital;

 - the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that, following the advice of the police dispatcher, he headed back to his car;

 - the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin assaulted first.

 -  the admission that the investigtors have not been "given any insight" by the voice experts at the Orlando Sentinel and the FBI who attempted to identify the screams on the 911 tape (My 'told you so' moment).

Among the rays of light for the prosection was this:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la Rionda]: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands? 

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true? 

GILBREATH: Yes. 

So the beating may not have been as fierce as Zimmerman described, or believed. However, the defense returned to this point, regrettably during a CNN break:

COSTELLO: Back live to the bond hearing in Sanford, Florida. Mark O'Mara, who is George Zimmerman's attorney is doing another redirect of the state's attorney investigator. They're talking about what injuries George Zimmerman had to his head that night. Let's listen. 

GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found. 

O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they? [ABC pic]

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was. 

O'MARA: Could that be cement? 

GILBREATH: Could be. 

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent? 

GILBREATH: I said it was. 

Not a bad cross.  The fact that some evidence points against Zimmerman's story does not mean that there is no evidence supporting it, as Mr. O'Mara demonstrated.

The prosecutor did offer this for a future "Great Moments In Cross Examination" video.  The topic was Zimmerman's belated apology to the Martin's parents:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them? 

ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn't ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything. 

ZIMMERMAN: I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to. 

Anybody can have a bad day.

NEVER BEEN IN A WEIGHT ROOM: Timothy Noah makes a possibly embarrassing admission about his own life style choices:

2.) Zimmerman "did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am." This would appear to suggest that Zimmerman wouldn't have fired the gun had he known Martin was 17. He fired the gun believing Martin was perhaps 25 or 26 (Zimmerman is 28.). The assumption, I guess, is that a 25 year-old is stronger or likelier to be carrying a gun or in some other way more potentially dangerous than a 17 year-old. There's no reason I'm aware of to believe that should be so. Zimmerman thereby confirms that he's a guy who leaps to conclusions.

I need help here - is there any sport where 17 year old males have an edge over older, stronger, more experienced 25 year olds?  Riding, maybe?  I'm stumped. (Yes, it's different for the young women, especially in gymnastics where puberty can be  killer. For guys, puberty is muscle-up time... geez, am I explaining the birds and the bees to TNR writers?)

In any case, if Martin's age is irrelevant, why is he referred to as a child all the time? In the court of public opinion, his age matters, and if Mr. Noah thinks that apology was addressed exclusively to the people inside the courtroom, well, my goodness.

I will say his third point is a good one - Zimmerman's admission that he "did not know if [Martin] was armed or not" was not helpful to the defense. It's probably not that harmful, however - Zimmerman claims that Martin grabbed for Zimmerman's gun, causing him to fear death or grievous bodily harm.  

In any case Zimmerman must have covered this ground in his repeated interviews with investigators, and what else could Zimmerman say - after the fact, what basis could he have had for saying he believed that Martin had been armed? That would be less plausible than his gun struggle claim (which I don't love - as a concealed carry permit holder, Zimmerman ought to know self-defense law and what to tell police.)

GOOD POINT: Assessments change, but on the 911 call Zimmerman described Martin as "late teens", yet he was older on the stand today. Why the change?  Who knows?  Maybe Martin had a deeper voice than Zimmerman associated with teens and aged him after he heard him speak just before their scuffle. Maybe Martin was stronger or fiercer than Zimmerman thought a teenager ought to be.  Maybe he lied on the stand.

Well - the left will hang their hate on this, so props to Prof. Hutchinson, where I saw it first.

LOOKING FOR REACTIONS: Jeralyn Merritt has not chimed on with her thoughts (this whole day job thing interferes with so much punditry...) but her first commenter deserves a prize:

It appears the prosecution's legal strategy is... (wait for it)... The Sneering Tone of Voice.  

Other than that I can't really see what he accomplished except to indicate to the judge he's a jerk. 

Well, and unprepared.

The WaPo leads with the apology (as does everyone) and has this deep:

The hearing provided a few glimpses into the evidence amassed by investigators, and in some cases evidence they do not have.

Dale Gilbreath, an investigator for the state attorney’s office, testified that he does not know whether Martin or Zimmerman threw the first punch and that there is no evidence to disprove Zimmerman’s contention that he was walking back to his vehicle when confronted by Martin.

Gilbreath also said evidence does not back up parts of Zimmerman’s story, such as his claim that Martin was slamming his head against a sidewalk just before he pulled out his handgun and shot the teenager.

“That is not consistent with the evidence we found,” said Gilbreath, who did not provide details.

The NY Times makes no mention of the comical prosecution presentation. Better their readers get that grim news elsewhere. [OK, their unmarked updating has now added a section of the prosecution debacle.]

The LA Times has a bit of the bad news deep:

The hearing was also notable for the extensive grilling that O'Mara gave one of the investigators for the state attorney's office, Dale Gilbreath, who helped prepare the probable cause affidavit that was the basis for Zimmerman's arrest.

The affidavit says Zimmerman "confronted" Martin, after which a struggle ensued. In a likely preview of the defense strategy at trial, O'Mara questioned the use of the word "confronted."

"Do you know who started the fight?" he asked the investigator at one point.

"Do I know? No," Gilbreath said.

"Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?"

"No" Gilbreath said.

YOU KNOW IT WENT BADLY FROM THE HEADLINE: ThinkProgress:

Prosecutor: Zimmerman Allegedly Slapped His Ex-Girlfriend And ‘Asked Her How It Felt’

They left out "Defense Counsel Slaps Prosecutor, Asked Him How It Felt"

The judge was far less impressed that Think Progress by Zimmerman's inglorious past; fro the Guardian live blog: 

The judge all but pooh-poohed the 2005 charges brought against Zimmerman for felony battery of an officer and resisting arrest. The charges were later reduced to a misdemeanor and Zimmerman never served prison time, although he was required to attend anger management classes.

This kind of thing is all too common, the judge said, suggested that the charges were somehow inflated and should not be taken as an indicator – that he, at least, would not be taking them as an indicator – of George Zimmerman's propensity for violence.

Well, the prosecutor impressed the stalwarts on the left, so he has that working for him. Too bad about the judge... 

WHO KNOWS WHAT EVIL LURKS IN THE RETREAT AT TWIN LAKES?  More hints of the dazzling prosecution case to come:

Now O'Mara is asking Gilbreath questions again. He's driving at how long after the operator told Zimmerman not to follow Martin that the suspect "continued to follow" the scene.

Gilbreath: "We have a witness statement who observed shadows or figures running by her residence." He says he can't identify who they were.

I'm betting one of the shadows was black, but did the other shadow look Hispanic or White Hispanic?

(FWIW, I can't find that in the CNN transcript, but they did keep cutting away for revenue breaks.)

ALWAYS WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT: A comedy highlight - defense counsel O'Mara has co-lead investigator Gilbrath on the stand:

O'MARA: Ok. Have you ever had your nose broken? 

GILBREATH: No. 

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken. 

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct? 

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that. 

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them? 

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No. 

O'MARA: Do you want a copy of them? 

GILBREATH: Sure. 

O'MARA: I'll give them to the state. It's a more appropriate way to do it. If you haven't had them yet, I don't want to cross you on them.

Send better rodeo clowns.

YOU KNOW THAT'S RIGHT: From the conclusion of the prosecutor's closing statement:

I'm not here to argue all the facts, obviously.

Obvious as the day is long.

Comments

[Fred17]

Well' I don't know what else Zimmerman is guilty of besides being dumb enough to keep following after the police dispatcher said it wasn't necessary.

[Some guy]

I also found it troubling that any time O'Mara tried to nail down specifics of the affidavit (ie, who on the procecution's side wanted the inclusion of the word 'profiled' or the cursing statments of GZ) he would rather smugly affirm that he did not and was unaware of who did.

His trying too hard by half to not get pinned down, may backfire. By his own testimony, he said only 3 people were the authors, so it won't take much effort to find which of the three are responsible.

[Half Canadian]

Let's face it. No evidence will persuade Zimmerman's critics that he is not guilty. They've built the narrative, and he shot a black teenager. The facts haven't mattered yet.

[Porchlight]

Luke Russert's response:

Luke Russert‏@LukeRussertReply Not shocked Obama would get booed at Fenway. So would Romney, most pols would. Thousands of white men drinking beer since noon opining.

White men? What does race have to do with it if he is asserting they would have booed Romney too?

[derwill]

Maybe the prosecution had Crump write the affidavit for them. (And I'm only half-joking),

[Axelrod, oh hahah. Ayers, giggle.]

That joke is going to hound him to the grave.
==============

[BlahBlahBlah]

"being dumb enough to keep following after the police dispatcher said it wasn't necessary."

Which is hardly even that dumb after Martin has "run" away towards a street exit.

[Anna Keppa]

Vinnie, you say Martin would be alive if not for Boooosh.

After seeing some very convincing commercials, I say Treyvon must have made a bad choice by not getting DirecTV.

That makes as much sense as your comment....

[Rich]

While this spins along, any word on whether NBP's possible solicitation of kidnapping will be investigated at either state or federal level?

[jwest]

I don’t know how many caught the look on the prosecutor’s face during O’Mara’s questioning of the broken nose and specifically when it came out that the investigators didn’t ask for or have a copy of the medical records.

It seems he might have been relying on the assumption that Zimmerman’s nose was never broken. Gilbreath was also unaware, as evidenced by his “purported” comment.

[Danube of Thought]

"but why was he so unprepared? "

Sure beats me.

[Porchlight]

Well' I don't know what else Zimmerman is guilty of besides being dumb enough to keep following after the police dispatcher said it wasn't necessary.

Zero evidence for that. The tape has the dispatcher saying "We don't need you to do that" [follow Martin]. Zimmerman's response: "OK."

[cboldt]

-- any word on whether NBP's possible solicitation of kidnapping will be investigated at either state or federal level? --

Yeah. What they did was legal, because they are privileged. What about "Our people" is so hard to understand?

[Pofarmer]

"

I don’t know how many caught the look on the prosecutor’s face during O’Mara’s questioning of the broken nose and specifically when it came out that the investigators didn’t ask for or have a copy of the medical records.

It seems he might have been relying on the assumption that Zimmerman’s nose was never broken. Gilbreath was also unaware, as evidenced by his “purported” comment."

You would think a very special prosecutor, appointed to look into this thing, would have done at least a little due diligence before putting a man in jail, but, you'd be wrong.

[James Murray]

The details of this bail hearing are not that important to the eventual outcome. What is important? The obviousness of the political games, the amateurishly drawn arrest affidavit, the continuosly reinforced and overriding image of completely inept government lawyers, and an unimpressed bail hearing judge. As any trial attorney will tell you, the dominant lawyer in trial will win most cases regardless of the facts. Give that lawyer a decent set of facts and he will beat the prosecution to death. Such facts obviously exist here. Without the politics, there never would have been an arrest.
Zimmerman will walk. Books will be written. Liberal race baiting politicians will decry the outcome. The race baiters will demonstrate and appear on liberal TV shows. End of story.

[RHBH]

I don’t know how many caught the look on the prosecutor’s face during O’Mara’s questioning of the broken nose and specifically when it came out that the investigators didn’t ask for or have a copy of the medical records.

It seems he might have been relying on the assumption that Zimmerman’s nose was never broken. Gilbreath was also unaware, as evidenced by his “purported” comment.

Yes, that was a headscratcher. An important ommission of information on their part. Would be funny if they applied this kind of due dilligence to TM's autopsy report. Gotcha moment in the making, or will they learn?

[Captain Hate]

If Luke Russert had any less pigmentation he'd be invisible.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

It sounds like the prosecution has not looked at the timelines of the phone calls and/or tried to match up Gz's and TM's postions during this event.
Could they possibly be that unprepared
or are they hoping no one else has done the work?

[BlahBlahBlah]

"Without the politics, there never would have been an arrest."

And when one says that, one has to think about the motivation.

Right now, if this does go to trial, the Martins will be able to sue Zimmerman. If this was dismissed by the Gran Jury or if it is dismissed in Immunity, then they cant sue.

The prosecution has a case they should know they absolutely cant win - but they are trying to get it to trial anyway. The Martins claim they "only want an arrest"

Put two and two together - the prosecution looks like they are going to try and "win" this in civil court for the family...

"She [Corey] even says they talked about what they could do in case criminal charges were not filed against George Zimmerman." - from Fox Orlando interview

[cboldt]

DE LA RIONDA: And did -- isn't the 911 reporting, the police dispatcher informed him that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer?

GILBREATH: Yes.

Oops. The word "wait" doesn't appear in the call with dispatch. This is what the conversation includes, that might be construed as a request to wait:

Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there? ...

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? ...

I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area.

I can understand screwing up on the stand, but there is no excuse for screwing this up on the affidavit. The investigators got themselves so invested in the false narrative, that they aren't credible witnesses.

[narciso]

He's very plaid, almost blanc mange, in Caruso's defense, he was only the lowly deputy who was sympathetic with Rambo,

[cboldt]

DE LA RIONDA: But isn't it true that Mr. Zimmerman did not wait for that officer?

GILBREATH: Correct.

On what planet did Zimmerman leave the scene?

[Tom Maguire]

"They appear to have a witness to the shadows of the chase...

Plato can be the trial judge.

But seriously, is this the prosecution case? Send better shadow-watchers.

I saw an update in the CNN live blog - the prosecutor faced a skeptical press outside the court and assured them that the state had not presented its full case today. Good to know! The Ouija board expert will be introduced at the self-defense hearing.

[Theo]

cboldt --

I am not following you on this one. It cannot be the prosecutor's position that GZ was supposed to freeze in place like a statue once he spoke to the dispatcher. The implication is that GZ should not follow the suspect. But GZ's story is that he did NOT follow thereafter.

Prosecution looks FUBAR. One might suspect that the charges were just to calm the mob and not actually based on evidence. Prosecutor wants to blame judge or jury for acquittal rather than take the heat herself. I just hope that the judge does not pass the buck the same way (by denying immunity) and that if so the jury does not cave in to mob.

[Chubby]

zimmerman doesn't have any money, so what do they hope to get there?

they need to sue an institution of some kind and what has potential in that line?

[henry]

Link off

[NK]

aren't these questions asking Gilbreath about the cell phone conversation between GZ and the Dispatcher about waiting for the responding officer, when GZ called in the suspicious 'burglar' call, i.e. not GZ failing to wait for an officer after shooting TMartin. These general foundation questions/answers look proper,especially for a Bond Hearing.

[Danube of Thought]

Florida felony battery statute:

784.041 Felony battery.--

(1) A person commits felony battery if he or she:

(a) Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; and

(b) Causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement.

OK, you've been punched in the face with such force that you've been nocked down and your nose is broken. Your assailant is on top of you, and has already damaged your head to the extent shown in the picture. At that point are you in reasonable fear that a felony will be committed against you?

[NK]

Chubby-- I don't think GZ has ever been the Crump lawsuit target. my guess has been he's bringing a Civ Rights suit against SPD and the State of Fla. For what? WTFK.

[Chubby]

"we don't need you to do that" might also imply, but "if you want to, go ahead"

like, aw, I don't need you to do the dishes, (but it sure would be nice if you did)

[daddy]

Perhaps the red on Zimm's head is foodcoloring from the Red Skittles, since it was raining. That's the ticket.

[cboldt]

-- It cannot be the prosecutor's position that GZ was supposed to freeze in place like a statue once he spoke to the dispatcher. --

I don't take "wait" like that. I take it as return to your truck, or go to the mailboxes, or whatever, anything BUT follow Martin.

But the dispatcher didn't tell Zimmerman he had to wait - he asked Zimmerman if Zimmerman was going to wait. See the difference?

[NK]

DoT-- battery-- yeah, but to win Immunity GZ must prove by a preponderance that his use of deadly force was objectively reasonable, because he reasonably feared death or serious injury.

[Chubby]

NK, you have to be right. If indeed they are looking for financial recompense, there are not going to get that from GZ. If he is proven to be a murderer, they could hit the SPD bigtime. The less he is found guilty of, the less they can sue for.

[Theo]

NK --

I agree that GZ is not much of a civil defendant. Maybe he has homeowner's insurance and maybe it would cover something like this. Two big "maybes." Even if it did, probably not big dollars in coverage.

The problem with suing the state or the city is just what did they do that caused Trayvon's death? No matter how badly they screwed up the investigation, he was already dead by then.

One of the family lawyers talked of suing the Homeowner's Association because they put out a flyer saying that if they saw something suspicious and police were not available call GZ. But that did not cause Travyon's death either.

I am sure there is a plan to cash in on this, but it is not obvious at the moment.

[cboldt]

-- OK, you've been punched in the face with such force that you've been nocked down and your nose is broken. Your assailant is on top of you, and has already damaged your head to the extent shown in the picture. At that point are you in reasonable fear that a felony will be committed against you? --

There's another exchange in the transcript that alters that ever so slightly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la R, I think]: Did he also not state that at some point, he the defendant -- did he not state or claim that the victim in this case, Mr. Martin, put both hands one over his mouth and one over his nose so that he couldn't breathe?

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And all of sudden that's when he was able to get free and grab the gun. Or I'm sorry, Martin was grabbing for the gun, did he not claim that too at some point. climb [sic, I think this is "claim"] that?

GILBREATH: Yes.

[cboldt]

-- GZ must prove by a preponderance that his use of deadly force was objectively reasonable, because he reasonably feared death or serious injury. --

The statute also allows the use of deadly force to stop a forcible felony. It just happens that aggravated battery (a felony) includes an element of causing serious injury.

[Clarice]

I think O'Mara did a very fine job today.I'd also like to see if we could bribe Instapundit to stop linking to JOM and inviting nitwits in.

[Rick Ballard]

"One might suspect that the charges were just to calm the mob and not actually based on evidence."

One might also suspect that the show's opening was marred by the recusal of one of the leading actors and that the understudy persisted in ad libbing lines as well as demonstrating that he had not learned the dance routines at all, destroying the possibility of a Tony for choreography. Some consideration must also be given to Corey having cut the deal with Zimmerman's previous attorneys, which allowed yet another understudy to shoot for some ad lib fame.

I don't understand why political theater is being critiqued on the basis of law. The show was bound to close as soon as Martin's adventures in social networking ruined the President's adoption plans.

[JeremyR]

Why is anyone shocked that the prosecutor wasn't prepared? They know they only have to go through the motions to win the actual trial - the jury will be too scared to give any verdict but guilty.

[Tom Maguire]

Floolwoig the advice of the police dispatcher, Zimmerman headed back to his car? That would make it federal, wouldn't it?

I would like to pretend that my typos reflect intergalactic ineptitude but if you want to keep it Federal...

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

I am stealing that.

[Theo]

cboldt --

I guess the prosecution is trying to ridicule GZ by suggesting that GZ's statement is that Martin had two hands over GZ's mouth, his third hand over GZ's nose and used his fourth hand to reach for the gun. With his fifth and sixth hands maybe TM was smashing GZ's head on the sidewalk.

My guess is that GZ did not say anything that stupid. My guess is that GZ is pretty much aware that Martin only had two hands. He is describing them as being in different places at very slightly different times.

Prosecution must have more than they are showing or else they should give it up.

[Peter]

All the Administration is trying to do is to keep this case going until after November. After that, they just don't care. They know that when Zimmerman gets off the excitable types in the black community will go on one of their periodic rampages. They had to delay that because it would kill the slightest chance for reelection as well as put the Senate into the hands of Republicans. After every big race riot since Watts we've seen gains for Republicans.

[Matt]

Maybe he has homeowner's insurance and maybe it would cover something like this.

According to his wife's testimony, they rent their townhouse and have no financial resources:

DE LA RIONDA: And the reason I ask that because you stated that you all did not own that home?

S. ZIMMERMAN: That's correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Who owned the home?

S. ZIMMERMAN: Our landlord.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. So you all rent it?

S. ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

(etc.)

[Nadine]

"Ever since I heard the charge of 2nd Degree murder and not manslaughter, I wondered if the prosecution was not trying to throw the case for some reason."

Jim, I think Obama and Holder are hoping to see the case dismissed (as it ought to be, based on the evidence so far). That way, they get their outrage machine all stoked up again. Good for black turnout, yes?

[Ignatz]

What appears to be unfolding is the Sanford PD did a pretty damn thorough investigation and after prosecutors looked at it followed the facts to not charge Zimm.
After the media creation of the false theme of an inadequate preliminary investigation an SP was appointed to remedy it.
The result was the SP apparently did a far more half assed investigation than the original Sanford PD did.

[cboldt]

-- I am not following you on this one. It cannot be the prosecutor's position that GZ was supposed to freeze in place like a statue once he spoke to the dispatcher. --

Oh, just to repeat or complete my thought; Gilbreath says dispatch told Zimmerman to wait. That is false. At no point in that call did dispatch tell Zimmerman to wait, not in ANY terms. Not "stay," not "don't leave," not "you are not free to go." Yet we have an affidavit asserting that Zimmerman was told to stay, and the investigator is repeating that assertion under examination by the prosecutor.

[Clarice]

Taranto BOTW discusses the latest exploding cigar--that Romney's father was born overseas in a polygamy community--""It's true that there is much about Mormonism that seems odd to people of other faiths. But a contest over whose opponent is weirder is one Obama cannot possibly win."

I love that guy.

[Theo]

Jeremy R --

Absolutely my greatest fear. I hope that the jury is stronger than that and their sense of justice will prevail.

[Pofarmer]

DE LA RIONDA: And did -- isn't the 911 reporting, the police dispatcher informed him that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer?

GILBREATH: Yes.

So, they are trying to paint Zimmerman as????

[Theo]

cboldt --

A real puzzler. Prosecutor acts like GZ was told to "wait" and did not do so. But then investigator admits no evidence that would contradict GZ's statement that after dispatcher conversation, he headed back to his vehicle.

So what did GZ do wrong according to the prosecutor? They have no evidence that he did not head back to his vehicle. If that is the same as "waiting," he did nothing wrong. If it is different than "waiting," it seems like a very silly definition of "waiting."

[Les Nessman]

'late teens' vs. 'a little younger than 28'

Geez, what nitpicking.

Late teens IS a little younger than 28.

And wtf does that have to do with anything anyway?

[cboldt]

-- So, they are trying to paint Zimmerman as? --

An order-breaker. Not waiting as ordered. But there was never an order to wait, and the suggestion to not follow Martin was respected.

[daddy]

Does anyone know if Zimm's previous duo Lawyer team is required professionally to keep their yaps shut, or will they now be the go to guests on Nancy Grace and Geraldo as this thing plays out?

Personally I hope their 15 minutes is over.

[Captain Hate]

the latest exploding cigar--that Romney's father was born overseas in a polygamy community--

El JEFe is the product of polygamy

[Theo]

cboldt --

Agree, but the whole thing is strange. As you say, there was no order (or even request) to "wait."

If "wait" means "stand perfectly still exactly where you are" it would be a silly thing to order or request.

If "wait" means "do not follow the suspect" the prosecutor has no evidence that he did not "wait."

So what is the evidence that he did not "wait?" The fact that he was returning to the vehicle?

Bottom line is that the prosecutor seems to be playing word games. First make up an "order" to "wait." Then say he did not "wait" even if you have no evidence that he did anything but return towards his vehicle.

[cboldt]

-- So what did GZ do wrong according to the prosecutor? --

My observation is that the prosecutor's narrative is, in part, demonstrably false. So whatever "wrong" the prosecutor intends to build from there just flat does not hold water. And notice it is the state working to reinforce the falsehood that it asserted in the first place - Zimmerman doesn't follow orders.

In the state's case, this is a potential element of depraved mind, FWIW, so they need it here, or elsewhere.

[NK]

always must have objective fear of serious injury; to walk on an immunity motion everything needs to line up for the shooter as victim-- as you know IMO I think GZ's motion will be denied because its his word that TMartin attacked him, but the Judge will ask himself, why didn't GZ stay by his truck as the dispatcher asked, why did he follow TMartin? That question IMO will drive the Judge to let a jury decide this self-defense claim (or plead out).

[Theo]

cboldt --

I wondered what "depraved" meant in this context. Now we know. It is to not follow an order that you never received to do something nonsensical (freeze like a statue) instead of breaking off your pursuit and returning to your vehicle to wait for the police.

Good to know.

[narciso]

From this piece linked in Poppa Romney's bio,
here's what scary Larry left out;

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254362,00.html

[Theo]

NK --

I have a very similar concern about the immunity hearing. Judge may well pass the buck to the jury in order to avoid taking the heat himself.

[narciso]

And Brian Schwietzer, for that matter, so it's ironic that Barack Sr, on the way to his third marriage, is out of the 'narrative'

[matt]

Jay Carney went after Sarah Palin for her comment on Obama's management skills vis a vis the SS today.

When are these asshats going to learn to keep their mouths shut?

For the first time in memory, the SS gets caught with its pants down while the Sec State is partying like it's 1999 and they go on the offense. Not smart.

[daddy]

My bet for the first book about the Trayvon/Zimmerman case hitting the bookshelves is 5 June, 2012. That's the date the Mayan Calendar tells us the world may end because Venus transits the face of the Sun for the last time prior to December 2117.

[NK]

Po-- the State's case for Murder 2 (they've shown no public evidence yet) is that GZ 'profiled' TMartin as a threat because he was black, he vigilante style followed him (see Dee Dee cell call) and when the Dispatcher told GZ not to follow the suspect, GZ disregarded the dispatcher and Comm Watcher rules and kept following. TMartin was in fear of being followed by an armed man, TMartin had a right to confront the armed man, GZ unlawfully and recklessly shot TMartin. That's it-- where is any evidence to prove this BRD?

[cboldt]

LOL.

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that.

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them?

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No.

O'MARA: Do you want a copy of them?

Do you want a copy of them? Hahahaha. Well, there goes another one of ABC's false reports, no evidence of a broken nose.

[Cecil Turner]

My guess is that GZ did not say anything that stupid. My guess is that GZ is pretty much aware that Martin only had two hands. He is describing them as being in different places at very slightly different times.

I'm with you. In approximately a minute of fisticuffs, several holds/punches/defenses could be expected. And GZ, as the one obviously getting his butt kicked, is understandably going to be a little vague about it all. If this is what they're pinning their hopes on . . .

Geez, what nitpicking.

Late teens IS a little younger than 28.

I agree. Besides, that picture of a 14-year-old Trayvon he's got in the article header is a lot more misleading than what Zimmerman said.

[NK]

The medical records-- I saw that in the trancript, again that was one of the times I thought O'Hara did well planting reasonable doubt and pushing Immunity on the judge. Guess what-- it worked today, a very reasonable Bond was given. Good day for GZ.

[cboldt]

Hearing Transcript - Part 3

[pofarmer]

If that is the states case , then their investigator just t
lrpoed it.

[cboldt]

Reading de la Rionda's closing, he sounds like a rambling dunce. His mouth is writing checks his ass can't cash.

[Cecil Turner]

The problem with the prosecution's case is that it's ridiculous. They've got a shadow play of a chase ending in a scuffle, with screams, and a shot TM. We're to believe Zimmerman is the chaser, and Martin the screamer. But one look at Zimmerman and the picture of him chasing a 6'+ guy in a hoodie is unbelievable. And if he was chasing, the idea he'd catch TM is . . . dubious. Zimmerman's injuries make it clear he wasn't winning the fight, so if someone is screaming in pain, it ought to be him. Oh, and apparently the state has no evidence to suggest otherwise.

[Chubby]

I thought the visible signs of a broken nose injury would take much longer to heal, and when Z's recent mug shot didn't evidence injury, I was skeptical about the broken nose myself. I am glad to hear there are medical records to prove it. that was an amusing exchange

[narciso]

In other news, among the Uighurs that were released to El Salvador was the one, the Pentagon said not to release under any conditions, since he was a trainer for the ETIM

[NK]

Po-- the murder 2 charge is a joke.

Cboldt-- thanks for the last transcript. Wow, the Judge is controlling the case, and the Judge was pushing on the media motions; de la rionda was real defensive about producing docs, and redacting witness info. Hard to tell from the transcript, but my impression was the Judge was letting the State know they'd be producing for O'Mara AND the media sooner rather than later. Why is de la rionda defensive about that?

[Joan]

NK: " TMartin was in fear of being followed by an armed man, TMartin had a right to confront the armed man, GZ unlawfully and recklessly shot TMartin"

I've always wondered how the prosecution can prove TMartin knew Zimmerman was armed. The girlfriend? And, it makes no sense that an unarmed "teen" would confront an armed man.

None of the state's case makes sense.

And, to repeat comments made in the past, we expect attorneys, especially for the prosecution, to be fully briefed and on point -- like, for instance, in one of Michael Connelly's mysteries or in a movie or television. What we get is usually pretty prosaic, and sometimes stupid. Woefully for defendants at times.

[NK]

CecilT-- there is no public evidence --to date-- that begins to prove the State's theory BRD. None.

[Pofarmer]

If it was just fractured, and not displaced, once the initial swelling goes down, a broken nose doesn't look like much of anything, and, they don't really look like much of anything until the swelling starts. Knowing that Zimmerman had injuries to his face and head, how smart was it for the cops to question him for half the night?

[narciso]

But they are ok with enemy propaganda, like the Levick study;

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-04-19/vanden-brook-locker-propaganda/54419654/1

[cboldt]

-- I've always wondered how the prosecution can prove TMartin knew Zimmerman was armed. --

The same way it is proving everything else. By lying their asses off in order to punish an innocent man, and to make the political point that self defense is NOT an attractive option.

[cboldt]

-- how smart was it for the cops to question him for half the night? --

Actually, probably a good setting to monitor Zimmerman for signs of brain damage. Kept him conscious and alert.

[Not safe monitoring.]

Meh, cboldt, malpractice, or the police equivalent. Suppose he'd faded out on them suddenly from an expanding subdural hematoma.
=============

[Tom Maguire]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la R, I think]: Did he also not state that at some point, he the defendant -- did he not state or claim that the victim in this case, Mr. Martin, put both hands one over his mouth and one over his nose so that he couldn't breathe?

That would also stop a guy from screaming for help.

Obviously this is GZim's story but still, it does seem to hang together. Maybe he has the Verbal skills of Keyser Soze.

[centralcal]

cboldt wrote this up thread:

Reading de la Rionda's closing, he sounds like a rambling dunce. His mouth is writing checks his ass can't cash.

I have not commented about this case on the many threads - was way too busy and could only read along intermittently, however, I did see Mr. de la Rionda deliver his closing on Fox. OMG. He is still stuck on the early media circus and reportage of events. He tried so hard to emote that it was utterly ridiculous. I assumed he was playing to the Martin parents and the TV cameras. But he was just AWFUL!

[Jermaco]

"Reading de la Rionda's closing, he sounds like a rambling dunce."

Watching it was worse. He was all over the place...we have other witnesses, no bond, well, um, ok at least a million, GZ prior run in's with the law...

OMara was just sitting back going through his notes. Then the judge talks about his own experience and how those prior GZ charges are run of the mill and he knows how those type of charges come about.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

My reaction to the judge's demeanor, questions and ruling was that he did everything but tell O'Mara to file a motion to dismiss the Second Degree Murder charge. If this case is tried, I believe it will be tried as a negligent manslaughter case, which may be where the prosecution has been going all along but couldn't say so because of political/racial pressure. Coincidentally, that was the potential charge identified on the initial police report.

The prosecution's own evidence negates malice. Two very liberal but respected legal experts -- Dershowitz and Monroe Freedman -- believe the overcharge is unethical, and I am inclined to agree with them.

[Rick Ballard]

NK,

My read of the judge was that he was a 'grist for the mill' type who wasn't grandstanding. I will be wholly unsurprised if he launches this case into the Okefenokee and chews a little off the prosecutor while doing so.

I don't believe he has the script and I don't think he'll be asking for a copy.

[AliceH]

Wow, cboldt. For weeks you've been the very model of a learned, detached, measured legal analyst and now it's all "writing checks his ass can't cash" and "lying their asses off in order to punish an innocent man".... it's a whole new side of you I'd not seen before!

[cboldt]

-- Suppose he'd faded out on them suddenly from an expanding subdural hematoma. --

Call the ambulance. First responder's didn't see signs of concussion, as far as we know, and if they had it's likely they would have advised Zimmerman to stay awake so he would be aware. Zimmerman is probably quicker to the hospital from the cop shop than from home.

[cboldt]

-- it's a whole new side of you I'd not seen before! --

Heh. Well, this is an informal setting, and I don't have much of a reputation to protect, so what the heck.

I suspect those who tolerated my Libby rants are unsurprised at my recent outbursts.

[pagar]

"that were released to El Salvador "

How long do you think it will take for these two to make their way in to the US?
-------------------------------------------
"But they are ok with enemy propaganda, like the Levick study,"

Zerohedge gives their slant on the story.

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-16-20/pentagon-smears-usa-today-reporters-investigating-%E2%80%A6-wait-it-%E2%80%A6-illegal-pentago

[They got lucky.]

Double Meh. You presume Z-Man would have gone home had the cops released him earlier. Let's see, did he go to the hospital after being released or did he go home?

Calling an ambulance after the hematoma starts to expand is often too late. The police should have taken him to the hospital, let them clear him, and then interrogate. Otherwise their liability in a bad result is too high.

I don't know why this wasn't done. It's pretty routine.
================

[cboldt]

Anyone can be cboldt. Even me:)

[jeannebodine]

After listening to George's mother testify, I think what the defense team needs to do is to hire a PR person and get Mom Z to do the rounds of the morning shows, local TV, etc. She sounds painfully shy but it will be worth it for George. Her accent is still very heavy which makes her a qualifying "Hispanic" and she sounds incredibly sympathetic. She will completely destroy the remaining narrative and scare the bejesus out of the politicos with an election upcoming in November.

[So sue me, I'm a fakir]

LOL @6:51

[cboldt]

-- You presume Z-Man would have gone home had the cops released him earlier. Let's see, did he go to the hospital after being released or did he go home? --

I don't know. But I credit Sanford Fire EMT with having reasonable judgment. Obviously, some people with that degree of external trauma (or less) end up dying of brain injury - it's all a game of odds.

[cboldt]

After thinking about what I watched today on TV at the GZ bond hearing, I am now convinced that it either gets bounced at the immunity hearing or it becomes a national cause celebre and ruins forever our post-racial Presidency of Barrack Hussein Obama. Only because the investigators don't even know basic English grammar and effectation. The whole exam of Gilbreath about his writing or someone else's writing of the affadavit showed that this is a bow and curtsy to the race baiters out there. No well in hell has the State have conflicting testimony or evidence and they know it.

This is a sham of the first degree. Is there a crime in that?

[Chubby]

did he not voluntarily waive further medical help, as is his right to do in Fl? there is probably a GZ signature on a piece of paper somewhere annulling liability

[Sardondi]

Regarding Timothy Noah's apparent ignorance of the virtually certain physical and muscular superiority a 25 y.o. has over a 17 y.o., you must remember the source and be kind. Because Noah has two physicality strikes against him.

First, as a person who makes his living by writing, he almost certainly spent a great deal of time studying English, American or foreign literature in college. It is axiomatic that lit majors and devotees are generally not physical types. Hell, it's a victory if they're heterosexual.*

Second, he's a leftist. Lefties are not known for glorying in the crash of body on body...they get the proles to do that for them. Knowing only organizing meetings and caucuses, they have spent little time on sports teams or in locker rooms, much less weight rooms.

So the odds are greatly against Noah having any first hand experience in judging the lethality quotient of meat on the hoof. And he has no business passing on this situation.

Because Noah simply does not understand that a normal-looking 25 y.o. is going to be a far greater physical threat than a 17 y.o. He only knows that when he was 17, he had a better body and was in better shape. Which is to be expected form someone who sits for a living and almost certainly for entertainment as well.

* I know, I know. Still, the plain, statistical fact is that the odds are against gay men being beefed up, the homosexual cult of the hyper-masculine body and the existence of beefy leather boys notwithstanding.

[Jack is Back!]

Sorry about that imitation of cboldt but I had posted that earlier to show that anyone can be a sock puppet.