The George Zimmerman Bail Hearing

Wow - some days chicken salad and some days Florida state prosecutor.

George Zimmerman will be released on bail, set at $150,000.  The prosecution had asked for $1 million, the defense for $15,000.

CNN has 1, 2, 3 transcripts. Here is the CNN live blog and the Guardian live blog. The single most interesting blog point I have seen made is here; I discuss it below, but you won't see me spoiling the surprise up here.

This was a ghastly opening day for Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, who seemed unprepared and admitted as much:

"Mr. Gilbreath, I didn't know we were going to be trying the case, I'm going to add up -- I apologize."

Hello!  Maybe the prosecutor should have prepped himself by reading up on 'Arthur' hearings:

Jeff Weiner, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers who practices in Miami, said Zimmerman was not necessarily entitled to release on bail. He faces up to life in prison for second-degree murder, a crime for which suspects in Florida are not usually afforded bail.

But if Angela Corey, the special prosecutor assigned to the case, wants to oppose his release, she will have to preview at least some of the evidence the state has against Zimmerman in proceedings known in Florida as an Arthur hearing, Weiner said.

“The state has the burden of proof to go forward and convince the judge that proof of guilt is evident and that the presumption of guilt is great … That’s what this hearing is about,” Weiner said.

Well, maybe the prosecution got the wrong instructional video.

It's hard to pick the lowest of the low, but the darker moments for the prosecution included:

- The admission by co-lead investigator that he had not personally interviewed George Zimmerman;

- the admission that he had not requested Zimmerman's medical records from the hospital;

 - the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that, following the advice of the police dispatcher, he headed back to his car;

 - the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin assaulted first.

 -  the admission that the investigtors have not been "given any insight" by the voice experts at the Orlando Sentinel and the FBI who attempted to identify the screams on the 911 tape (My 'told you so' moment).

Among the rays of light for the prosection was this:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la Rionda]: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands? 

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true? 

GILBREATH: Yes. 

So the beating may not have been as fierce as Zimmerman described, or believed. However, the defense returned to this point, regrettably during a CNN break:

COSTELLO: Back live to the bond hearing in Sanford, Florida. Mark O'Mara, who is George Zimmerman's attorney is doing another redirect of the state's attorney investigator. They're talking about what injuries George Zimmerman had to his head that night. Let's listen. 

GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found. 

O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they? [ABC pic]

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was. 

O'MARA: Could that be cement? 

GILBREATH: Could be. 

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent? 

GILBREATH: I said it was. 

Not a bad cross.  The fact that some evidence points against Zimmerman's story does not mean that there is no evidence supporting it, as Mr. O'Mara demonstrated.

The prosecutor did offer this for a future "Great Moments In Cross Examination" video.  The topic was Zimmerman's belated apology to the Martin's parents:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them? 

ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn't ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything. 

ZIMMERMAN: I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to. 

Anybody can have a bad day.

NEVER BEEN IN A WEIGHT ROOM: Timothy Noah makes a possibly embarrassing admission about his own life style choices:

2.) Zimmerman "did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am." This would appear to suggest that Zimmerman wouldn't have fired the gun had he known Martin was 17. He fired the gun believing Martin was perhaps 25 or 26 (Zimmerman is 28.). The assumption, I guess, is that a 25 year-old is stronger or likelier to be carrying a gun or in some other way more potentially dangerous than a 17 year-old. There's no reason I'm aware of to believe that should be so. Zimmerman thereby confirms that he's a guy who leaps to conclusions.

I need help here - is there any sport where 17 year old males have an edge over older, stronger, more experienced 25 year olds?  Riding, maybe?  I'm stumped. (Yes, it's different for the young women, especially in gymnastics where puberty can be  killer. For guys, puberty is muscle-up time... geez, am I explaining the birds and the bees to TNR writers?)

In any case, if Martin's age is irrelevant, why is he referred to as a child all the time? In the court of public opinion, his age matters, and if Mr. Noah thinks that apology was addressed exclusively to the people inside the courtroom, well, my goodness.

I will say his third point is a good one - Zimmerman's admission that he "did not know if [Martin] was armed or not" was not helpful to the defense. It's probably not that harmful, however - Zimmerman claims that Martin grabbed for Zimmerman's gun, causing him to fear death or grievous bodily harm.  

In any case Zimmerman must have covered this ground in his repeated interviews with investigators, and what else could Zimmerman say - after the fact, what basis could he have had for saying he believed that Martin had been armed? That would be less plausible than his gun struggle claim (which I don't love - as a concealed carry permit holder, Zimmerman ought to know self-defense law and what to tell police.)

GOOD POINT: Assessments change, but on the 911 call Zimmerman described Martin as "late teens", yet he was older on the stand today. Why the change?  Who knows?  Maybe Martin had a deeper voice than Zimmerman associated with teens and aged him after he heard him speak just before their scuffle. Maybe Martin was stronger or fiercer than Zimmerman thought a teenager ought to be.  Maybe he lied on the stand.

Well - the left will hang their hate on this, so props to Prof. Hutchinson, where I saw it first.

LOOKING FOR REACTIONS: Jeralyn Merritt has not chimed on with her thoughts (this whole day job thing interferes with so much punditry...) but her first commenter deserves a prize:

It appears the prosecution's legal strategy is... (wait for it)... The Sneering Tone of Voice.  

Other than that I can't really see what he accomplished except to indicate to the judge he's a jerk. 

Well, and unprepared.

The WaPo leads with the apology (as does everyone) and has this deep:

The hearing provided a few glimpses into the evidence amassed by investigators, and in some cases evidence they do not have.

Dale Gilbreath, an investigator for the state attorney’s office, testified that he does not know whether Martin or Zimmerman threw the first punch and that there is no evidence to disprove Zimmerman’s contention that he was walking back to his vehicle when confronted by Martin.

Gilbreath also said evidence does not back up parts of Zimmerman’s story, such as his claim that Martin was slamming his head against a sidewalk just before he pulled out his handgun and shot the teenager.

“That is not consistent with the evidence we found,” said Gilbreath, who did not provide details.

The NY Times makes no mention of the comical prosecution presentation. Better their readers get that grim news elsewhere. [OK, their unmarked updating has now added a section of the prosecution debacle.]

The LA Times has a bit of the bad news deep:

The hearing was also notable for the extensive grilling that O'Mara gave one of the investigators for the state attorney's office, Dale Gilbreath, who helped prepare the probable cause affidavit that was the basis for Zimmerman's arrest.

The affidavit says Zimmerman "confronted" Martin, after which a struggle ensued. In a likely preview of the defense strategy at trial, O'Mara questioned the use of the word "confronted."

"Do you know who started the fight?" he asked the investigator at one point.

"Do I know? No," Gilbreath said.

"Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?"

"No" Gilbreath said.

YOU KNOW IT WENT BADLY FROM THE HEADLINE: ThinkProgress:

Prosecutor: Zimmerman Allegedly Slapped His Ex-Girlfriend And ‘Asked Her How It Felt’

They left out "Defense Counsel Slaps Prosecutor, Asked Him How It Felt"

The judge was far less impressed that Think Progress by Zimmerman's inglorious past; fro the Guardian live blog: 

The judge all but pooh-poohed the 2005 charges brought against Zimmerman for felony battery of an officer and resisting arrest. The charges were later reduced to a misdemeanor and Zimmerman never served prison time, although he was required to attend anger management classes.

This kind of thing is all too common, the judge said, suggested that the charges were somehow inflated and should not be taken as an indicator – that he, at least, would not be taking them as an indicator – of George Zimmerman's propensity for violence.

Well, the prosecutor impressed the stalwarts on the left, so he has that working for him. Too bad about the judge... 

WHO KNOWS WHAT EVIL LURKS IN THE RETREAT AT TWIN LAKES?  More hints of the dazzling prosecution case to come:

Now O'Mara is asking Gilbreath questions again. He's driving at how long after the operator told Zimmerman not to follow Martin that the suspect "continued to follow" the scene.

Gilbreath: "We have a witness statement who observed shadows or figures running by her residence." He says he can't identify who they were.

I'm betting one of the shadows was black, but did the other shadow look Hispanic or White Hispanic?

(FWIW, I can't find that in the CNN transcript, but they did keep cutting away for revenue breaks.)

ALWAYS WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT: A comedy highlight - defense counsel O'Mara has co-lead investigator Gilbrath on the stand:

O'MARA: Ok. Have you ever had your nose broken? 

GILBREATH: No. 

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken. 

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct? 

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that. 

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them? 

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No. 

O'MARA: Do you want a copy of them? 

GILBREATH: Sure. 

O'MARA: I'll give them to the state. It's a more appropriate way to do it. If you haven't had them yet, I don't want to cross you on them.

Send better rodeo clowns.

YOU KNOW THAT'S RIGHT: From the conclusion of the prosecutor's closing statement:

I'm not here to argue all the facts, obviously.

Obvious as the day is long.

Comments

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

and I just heard Nancy disGrace: "I thought it should have been a murder 1 charge" in response to a caller concerned that the prosecutors were overcharging.

How do these people stay employed?

There is a reason she is no longer employed as a prosecutor. To paraphrase Cboldt (or a reasonable facsimile) she wrote too many checks that her ass couldn't cash.

[Danube of Thought]

Frau @10:25--we have to cry foul on the third line.

I'm seriously concerned about the buubmeister. Has he perhaps suddenly taken ill?

[Strawman Cometh]

Taffe sp? is on Nancy now, with one of Trayvon's lawyers (this is the most I've spent with Nancy, the Mrs - who also can't stand Nancy - was clicking by and I noticed GZ)

[Danube of Thought]

By the way--a nice point made by O'Mara today--about which we are likely to hear much more--is that all during the time GZ spoke with the cops, he had no way of knowing whether there were eyewitnesses who could contradict his version of events if he were untruthful.

[Rick Ballard]

It's my hope that he found someone to re-enact the sucker punch-head contact with concrete with him taking the Zimmerman part. If so, he'll be back as soon as his eyes uncross.

[Strawman Cometh]

Another NG panel - different guests -

consensus is that it is unfair that GZ has lost all the weight and looks pitiful and emaciated.

[Strawman Cometh]

Rick for the win

[boatbuilder]

Apropos of very little--the Z head photo appears to have been taken from slightly above-like from a balcony.

Also TK--I was impressed by the quality of the haiku. Taranto has nothing on you.

Good night.

[Barbara]

He was an adolescent. Giving somebody the finger does not justify shooting. Let's keep some perspective here.

Well said, Peter.

[narciso]

Oh crikey that's why I was watching, 'in Plain Sight, I think one loses brain cells
watching garbage like Grace's

[Ignatz]

--It's my hope that he found someone to re-enact the sucker punch-head contact with concrete with him taking the Zimmerman part. If so, he'll be back as soon as his eyes uncross.--

Come to think of it Rick, haven't seen No_Limit_Nigga today either.
Perhaps they got together for their playdate after all.

[Strawman Cometh]

Narc,
No doubt, but I've immunized myself with a nice Merlot

[Strawman Cometh]

flipped over to the BOR replay, need more Merlot

[Strawman Cometh]

hmm hmm hmm

[jimmyk]

Getting caught up--what did GZ apologize for?

Incidentally, I'm in Boston for a conference, are there any JOMers in Beantown? At my hotel there were a bunch of former BoSox who were in town for today's 100th anniversary event. Ended up chatting with one in the bar last night (no one famous).

[Enlightened]

"There is a reason she is no longer employed as a prosecutor."

And has the likes of bubu, duda, Sylvia, KK, Cleo et al lapping at her breast like good little puppies.

[Danube of Thought]

"Giving somebody the finger does not justify shooting"

Please identify each and every person who has suggested that it does. Please--just one.

[Enlightened]

BWAHHAHHAHAH - good one...now which one of our esteemed lapdogs is that?

[narciso]

Well according to her wiki, she left when the
d.a. lost the election, but the Melinda Duckett matter, was a terrible circumstance for her,

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Barry needs every one of those voters to return to the polls for him this year. And more, to make up the difference with the white vote he's lost."

Actually, right now Obama is leading Mitt Romney in every single voting demographic except one. That one is white males over 50. Obviously, that could change, but it's not likely to unless Romney gives women, Hispanics, and men under 50 some kind of sane reason to vote for him.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Keep hope alive Kathy. And, by the way change the subject while you are at it.

[Bruce]

He was an adolescent. Giving somebody the finger does not justify shooting. Let's keep some perspective here.

I think that it is a silly attempt at misdirection to even suggest that anyone here actually believes that. Of course, giving someone the finger does not justify shooting them, nor does talking trash about their mother, etc. What does justify shooting someone is if they put you in imminent fear for your life or great bodily harm. And, that may well include having someone bash your head against concrete, or maybe even grab for your gun.

[BlahBlahBlah]

"Please identify each and every person who has suggested that it does. Please--just one."

I feel it does

...well, when said finger is one of five being violently slammed into the face of another person, at least - as is the case here...

[narciso]

I know 'I read from the book earlier' and 'I apologize unreservedly' In the unintentional humor column, Carney opposes the Keystone Pipeline, because it infringes on American
sovereignty

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"We may have been fooled once into thinking that Obama could bring the majority of blacks into mainstream of American values and thinking."

Actually, some of us were hoping that Obama could bring whites into the last third of the 20th century, continuing into the 21st.

And surely the apparent implication in your comment that you voted for Obama in 2008 is incorrect.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Danglen, you'll love bubu, duda,KK, and sylvia--other fine thinkers such as ourself."

Only in contrast to people such as yourself, Clarice. It's not a very high bar.

[Strawman Cometh]

The "finger issue" stems from the "St.Trayvon at 13 years" iconography promulgated by the MFM. The finger photo is a more accurate (and most up-to-date) representation of what confronted GZ.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"They couldn't even get folks to fill out voter registration cards at a Treyvon rally."

It's not legal to do voter registration drives in Florida anymore. Florida just passed a law outlawing it.

[Rob Crawford]

Wow, Kathy -- you're catty *and* racist, to boot!

Your mother must be so proud.

[narciso]

You know it occurs to me, if some stranger is following me, first I would tell Dee Dee, I have to hang up and call the cops, second,
I would go to the condo, and get inside, not venture outside,

[Annoying Old Guy]

Actually, some of us were hoping that Obama could bring whites into the last third of the 20th century, continuing into the 21st.

What does that even mean? Last I checked I made it to the last third of the 20th Century and even the 21st.

[Strawman Cometh]

could bring whites
His AG and he have made it clear that they are only interested in "his people".

[Danube of Thought]

KK is plainly demoralized. She has nothing to say about the stunning photographic evidence, nor about the shredding of the state's case in today's proceedings.

But as always, she is long on condemning others as her moral inferiors.

Kathy, you're not morally inferior to us. You're just kind of stupid.

[Threadkiller]

Force the non-issue
A slip while reaching pleasure
Finger tastes like shit

[BlahBlahBlah]

narciso,

yeah, that might work, but clearly Martin's plan to meet a persons suspicion with aggression is a much better plan though...

[Frau Dingsbums]

Thanks, DoT; how right you are to call foul.

After haiku comes byeku...

[Danube of Thought]

"Obama is leading Mitt Romney in every single voting demographic except one. That one is white males over 50."

And hell--what has that bunch ever done for this country? What percentage of taxes do they pay? Buncha ingrates. Don't they understand what we owe to OWS?

[Strawman Cometh]

It's not still legal to do voter registration drives in Florida anymore. Florida just passed a law outlawing making it more difficult to commit voter fraud.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

The old KK "hurl insults at those who disagree with her" trick. You are a one trick pony, I am afraid, Kathy. You offer nothing but invective and unsupported opinion here. Why not engage in intellectually honest dialogue? You might even learn something.

For your information, many of the regulars here were long time (relatively) liberal Democrats. I was. I worked in the Kennedy and Carter campaigns, and served as a small business advisor to the Democratic National Committee from 1978-1990.

As the party continued its inexorable swing to the left, it lost our support. The fiscal insanity since 2008 has made us even more determined to change the course of the trajectory of the national debt.

To the extent you want to discuss issues here, have at it. But if you want only to snark, you will get only snark in return.

As a lawyer, I can't resist a closing that always ticked me off when a potential opponent used it:

Please govern yourself accordingly.

[Strawman Cometh]

TK,
Bestest Haiku, evah

[Ignatz]

I bet you guys would be nicer to Kathy if you were aware she models yoga pants on the side.
I don't know if her mother would be proud but I'm kinda partial to my little Kumquat. Ooh la la, girlfriend.

[Danube of Thought]

There's a new thread. I invite KK to take her best shot there.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Way OT, but I've long thought this is the single prettiest piece of music ever written and is here played by the guy who played it better than anyone, IMO."

Thank you. That IS beautiful, and I've downloaded it.

[OldTimer]

Jim Rhoads, your clarity of thought and reasonable disposition become you.

If KK has only a smidgeon of self-awareness she'll take your words to heart and contemplate their meaning for the duration of the evening and hopefully return tomorrow a worthy opponent.

....A pompous attitude denotes an insecure spirit, searching in vain for recognition.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Your mother must be so proud."

My mother died 14 years ago on the 12th of next month.

Thank you for asking.

[BlahBlahBlah]

"If KK has only a smidgeon of self-awareness"

...and therein lies the problem...

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"It's not still legal to do voter registration drives in Florida anymore. Florida just passed a law outlawing making it more difficult to commit voter fraud."

There is no voter fraud problem in Florida or anywhere else in the U.S. Voter fraud is not only not an epidemic, it barely exists at all. In no state in the country do confirmed instances of voter fraud amount to more than a handful over a period of years.

My statement was correct. It is no longer legal in Florida for even recognized, respected organizations like the League of Women Voters to do public voter registration drives. And it's a law in search of a problem, as I said above.

[iqvoice]

Kathy, I'm going to invoke the "Woman Rape Rule", which says that even though FBI crime stats show only 52 in a 100,000 women are rape victims, the Professional Victim Class will claim that it is 1 in 4.

Likewise, even though your "official" crime statistics show only a low number of convictions for voter fraud... the real number is that 1 in every 4 votes cast is fraudulent.

...Like the Black Panthers at that voting station, the criminals get away with it or are never prosecuted.

[Strawman Cometh]

There is no voter fraud problem for Democrats in Florida or anywhere else in the U.S.

[RidleyLaw]

It's interesting to me how often the prosecutors who are assigned to showboat trials turn out to be unable to rise to the occasion (Paging Marcia Clark). Here we go again, with another 'trial of the century,' put on by incompetent government boobs for the prosecution.

[Strawman Cometh]

OIANAL, but attributed the OJ failure to Ito.
Regardless, a major opportunity was lost, they should have revived Hollywood Squares with the cast of that trial. I'll take Judge Ito to block!

[narciso]

As for Hutchinson, he is a Derek Bell wannabe,
at Penn,

[narciso]

Looks like the Chewbacca defense;

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/20/2759558/guantanamo-defense-team-cites.html#morer

[Patriot4Freedom]

Hutchinson apparently thinks TM [Tom] is "distorting the facts" re GZ's statement at the bond hearing about Trayvon's age.

He only finds one possible explanation, a lie, for the comment. Sounds like Derek Bell's kind of logic.

Meanwhile, KK finds Hutchinson "someone who knows what he's talking about" in her comments on that link.

[Donald]

Tom Wolfe did this whole story in Bonfire of the Vanities

That was a great book and a terrible movie.

I do see the possibility that if the gets to trial it'll end just like the movie.

Really, watch it.

[Donald]

If this gets to trial.

[narciso]

Agreed Donald, btw, Wolfe has a new book set in Miami, coming out at the end of the year.

[bobby b]

"If one views the second degree murder charge as being motivated by political considerations, this may have been a good day for Corey. If the immunity hearing results in the judge throwing out the charge, Corey still gets to say that she did what she could to get justice for M. Bernice de la Rionda takes the fall."

Corey WANTS the judge to throw out the case, and so she's putting in a case that's not quite good enough to survive to trial, but just barely good enough to make it through three or four hearings.

[Tony Smith]

You left something out -- Even though the investigator said they lacked direct evidence regarding who started the fight, he said they have evidence that Zimmerman lied about the incident. So - that's enough for probable cause. A jury can reasonably doubt that he is telling the truth and that rather than acting in self-defense, he acted as the aggressor, due to his deceitful responses (including lying under oath)

[Bruce]

You left something out -- Even though the investigator said they lacked direct evidence regarding who started the fight, he said they have evidence that Zimmerman lied about the incident.

That, in itself, is not enough for probable cause. The lie may not have negated any of their basis for their claim for 2nd degree murder. Remember Libby, where his "lie" had nothing really to do with the underlying offense (which the prosecution knew was bogus all along)? Lying about a peripheral issue may only really be relevant to the veracity of the speaker.

Besides, what do they mean by having evidence that Zimmerman lied about the incident. Can they prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, their contention? Or, are they accepting as definitive the stories and claims of witnesses supporting their narrative, like Martin's girlfriend and mother?

I am not sure how far you can take the investigator's statement about Zimmerman being caught in a lie about what happened. This was at the end of being caught in a web of, at best, extrapolation and conjecture in the form of his affidavit supporting Zimmerman's arrest for 2nd Degree Murder. Or, if you were not so generous, after being caught perjuring himself under oath in that affidavit. In either case, he seemed to me to have been somewhat defensive by the time that he made the statement about Zimmerman lying.

Should be interesting as this story continues to unfold.

[BlahBlahBlah]

Its ironic KK goes on her whole "there is no voter fraud" rant just hours before Fox airs their Voter Fraud special detailing some of the many, many Democrats currently in jail or on trial for Voter Fraud.

It must be nice to live in a world where you are absolutely unable to hear anything you don't want to...

[jimmyk]

I thought the claim about evidence Z lied specifically related to the claim that his head was being bashed on the pavement. It's hard to imagine what evidence they have of a lie about that. Absent a new eyewitness, all we have is Z's statement and his bloodied head. Maybe Gilbreath had adopted a looser definition of "evidence" to answer that question "yes."

[Danube of Thought]

he said they have evidence that Zimmerman lied about the incident

Let's see it. Given that the witness got tied in knots trying to back up statements to which he swore in an affidavit, I don't give him much credibility at this point.

[MarkO]

I still firmly believe that Nifong felt certain that the Duke students would be found not guilty. He manufactured the crime to get re-elected. He had to know that the boys would be exonerated in the end. It was all about---wait, wait---pandering to the black vote in Durham.

Cory is no different, except that she jumped into the middle of a potential race riot. These things have a way of careening out of control.