The Zimmerman Case: The Counter-Mob Forms

Mob justice is met with more mob justice:

Resignation of Police Chief in Martin Case Is Rejected

SANFORD, Fla. — Several hours after the city manager publicly announced that he had reached an agreement with Chief Bill R. Lee Jr. to resign over the Sanford Police Department’s handling of the Trayvon Martin shooting case, the City Commission voted late Monday afternoon to reject Chief Lee’s resignation.

Mayor Jeff Triplett was among the 3-to-2 majority of commissioners to vote “no confidence” in Chief Lee last month, prompting him to temporarily step aside. But during a special meeting Monday to consider Chief Lee’s future, Mr. Triplett was clearly conflicted amid a spirited debate punctuated with applause and standing ovations from backers of the chief in the audience.

In the end, Mr. Triplett voted in favor of Chief Lee’s remaining in the department, once again as part of a 3-to-2 majority. He said he wanted to review the reports of an independent investigation about the Police Department’s handling of the case before making a decision.

“I am not ready to have him come back and run the Police Department,” Mr. Triplett said. “But I am not ready for this either.”

He's ready to punt after a time-out.

I believe the Times missed a chance for a Sharpton shout-out in this passage:

Patty Mahany, a city commissioner who voted against the resignation agreement, praised Chief Lee during the debate, saying he was one of the finest law enforcement officials in Florida. “At least the city has taken a step back and a deep breath,” she said, insisting the firestorm around the case was driven by outsiders. She also said she wanted an independent review.

 

 

Comments

[Buford Gooch]

Resist we much. Al Sharpton is lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut.

[BumperStickerist]

I'm confused.

Pitchforks on the left, torches on the right?

Torches in back, Pitchforks in the front?

The torches in the middle with pitchforks on either wing?

These mobs don't just organize themselves, you know.

[Danube of Thought]

Haiku for Bubu:

City Council sees
Al Sharpton mob run amok
Says we won't have it

[Danube of Thought]

What might City Manager Norton N. Bonaparte's middle name be? Please, somebody--anybody--look into this.

Cboldt?

[scott]

heh. Sharpton's Waterloo?

[Danube of Thought]

Are the Dead Kennedys--or whoever are the custodians of the thing--prepared to give Mayor Triplett this year's Profile In Courage award?

[narciso]

A little background on Bonaparte;

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/burlington_county_times_news/former-willingboro-manager-at-center-of-sanford-fla-controversy/article_

[DebinNC]

Haitian-American Bonaparte, City Manager since September, has an impressive resume and, based on the enraged Kossacks, was initially at least a quasi-voice of reason in Sanford. He eventually buckled under what must have been enormous pressure from the race-hustlers and became the driving force behind Lee's ouster. I bet he really regrets it now.

[Ignatz]

He's a Jr so if we can find out his dad's middle name we'll have it made.

[narciso]

And this is from last year;

http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/City_Manager_Norton_Bonaparte_Leaving_July_1.html

[narciso]

I think we need a countermob, don't think we'll get one

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/04/23/obama-admin-embracing-legitimate-islamism/

[Danube of Thought]

If what seems to be the law follows what seem to be the facts in this case, does anyone doubt there will be rioting?

Does DooDah think that will be a good thing or a bad thing?

[Thomas Collins]

It appears as if some people in Sanford have figured out that giving in to race hustling bullies simply encourages more race hustling bullying.

[bgates]

OT - I just caught a couple of minutes of the execrable "GI Joe" movie. Some of you may be familiar with that name as a symbol of the American military. For the movie, they decided to take things in a different direction, and invented a multinational organization (not even just NATO - they had a Moroccan character).

Since that movie was released in 2009, I think enough time has passed to justify a reboot of the franchise. I have a great idea to revitalize the property and bring in several new demographics while keeping Hollywood's fidelity to the integrity of the original concept.

Basically, the GI Joe team will be a bunch of gay Canadian hairdressers in Montreal, enmeshed in a set of interlocking love triangles and one love pentagon (a salute to the military basis of the character).

What do you think?

[MarkO]

This is totally OT, but now I expect TSA to be disbanded. Otherwise, it's just another Obama lie.

"The war on terror is over," a senior official in the State Department official tells the National Journal. "Now that we have killed most of al Qaida, now that people have come to see legitimate means of expression, people who once might have gone into al Qaida see an opportunity for a legitimate Islamism."

[Jim Ryan]

bgates, here's the interlude where the straight guy in the platoon comes home for Christmas with his new girl.

[Captain Hate]

What did Lee do that was wrong?

[narciso]

crimethink, defined thusly as following the law, btw, bgates, any film with Rachel Nichols
and Sienna Miller, isn't totally unredeemable.

[Threadkiller]

"What do you think?"

Gay chicks, or gay dudes?

[Jim Ryan]

The worst things that happen to the platoon while on its tour of duty are that the AC breaks, the kid's boyfriend sends him a dear John letter from back home, and the Sarge's mother writes about how the GOP is cutting her medicare. Sarge goes ape and breaks some stuff, gets arrested by some MPs, spends the night in the clink. It's the platoon's darkest hour.

[Sara]

Via Gateway Pundit:

A Mobile man clings to life tonight after a brutal beating yesterday by a mob armed with chairs, pipes and paint cans. WKRG reported:

Mobile police need your help to catch a mob that beat Matthew Owens so badly that he’s in critical condition.

According to police, Owens fussed at some kids playing basketball in the middle of Delmar Drive about 8:30 Saturday night. They say the kids left and a group of adults returned, armed with everything but the kitchen sink.

Police tell News 5 the suspects used chairs, pipes and paint cans to beat Owens.

Owens’ sister, Ashley Parker, saw the attack. “It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed.” Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using “brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on.”

Police will only say “multiple people” are involved.

If he had been carrying ... just sayin'

[Danube of Thought]

The bumptious Georgia simpleton once again scolds his country for not being good enough for him:

"Carter said that, as the last global superpower, the US has a responsibility to be a leader in peace efforts and set an example to the rest of the world. Instead, he said, the US is 'too inclined to go to war' and is contemplating going to war again, 'perhaps in Iran.'

"The US has been at war almost constantly in the last 60 years, said the former president. Most of those wars failed to meet the criteria for a just war and 'some of them were completely unnecessary,' he said."

I really think that at this point he can best serve his country by dying. Soon.

[Captain Hate]

TK, congratulations on driving Tweety completely insane. He was so unhinged tonight that even Michael Steele fired back at him.

[Captain Hate]

Dhimmi Earl criticizing anything having to do with our relations with Iran fails the minimum self awareness test badly.

[Threadkiller]

I think I taw a Grand Wizard hat.

[Threadkiller]

What CH is talking about:
" However, he then lectured Romney: "If Romney will come out there and denounce all the birtherism all this attempt to make Barack Obama some kind of foreigner, who's not really one of us, not really an American, I'll be with him on that point.""

http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2012/04/23/unhinged-chris-matthews-smears-gop-base-grand-wizard-crowd-steele-fi

Always brought up by the left, always.

[Danube of Thought]

"TK, congratulations on driving Tweety completely insane"

That would really be interesting if anyone knew who Tweety was.

[narciso]

It's a short trip, Captain, although 'Tommy Boy' and Scary Larry, are already there.

[Threadkiller]

When you punch "Tweety" into the Enigma machine it comes out "Chris Matthews".

[narciso]

He said this, in light of the Iranian boast
that they have cracked the programming on the drone,

[Jim Ryan]

How did TK drive Tweety insane? Fogged.

[Threadkiller]

Persistence Jim, persistence.

[lourdes]

if he had been carrying??? on the other hand, if zimmerman had not been carrying 17 y.o trayvon martin would still be alive...i'm just saying.

[Jim Ryan]

Agreed. Trayvon would have been better off doing 10 to 15 than dead.

[Pofarmer]

"on the other hand, if zimmerman had not been carrying 17 y.o trayvon martin would still be alive...i'm just saying."

And Zimmerman would be??????/

"Trayvon would have been better off doing 10 to 15 than dead."

Trayvon would have been better off going home.

[Bruce]

" However, he then lectured Romney: "If Romney will come out there and denounce all the birtherism all this attempt to make Barack Obama some kind of foreigner, who's not really one of us, not really an American, I'll be with him on that point.""

Not sure why he would bother.

First, and foremost, it may not be complete bunk. The Obama people have still not explained his social security number and selective service registration. Or, why all the government records of comings and goings into this country at the days when his mother is suspected of being abroad for his birth have mysteriously disappeared. Or, maybe why his long form birth certificate may be a computer forgery (Arpaio's experts have claimed such, but...)

Don't know, and don't really care, except that to the extent that it causes consternation on the left.

And, as several attorneys have pointed out, if Obama is actually Constitutionally ineligible, then we might have a major Constitutional crisis on our hands, given all the legislation he has signed, people he has nominated or appointed, etc. Not something that I think any of us really want.

But, one reason to keep it alive is that it ties into the dog eating controversy. That Obama tried dog meat as a kid in Indonesia is really irrelevant. That he failed to understand that this was a major taboo in American society, by putting it in his autobiography, is important. It goes to show that he is not one of us. He is an alien, and not an American. He doesn't have our common sensibilities and mores. Rather, he has those of the 3rd World, where eating dog is a delicacy, and the United States is the evil hegemony.

Maybe none of this is true. But, it is the appearance that matters. Or, as they call it now, the "optics".

Right now though, Romney seems to be mostly taking the high road, allowing others to make these attacks on Obama. And, this approach seems to be working. As long as it does, I don't expect Romney to jump in on these attacks on Obama's Constitutional fitness for office. Rather, much better to just keep saying, that Obama is a nice enough guy, just not up to the job of President, as demonstrated by his performance in office.

[Sara]

if he had been carrying??? on the other hand, if zimmerman had not been carrying 17 y.o trayvon martin would still be alive...i'm just saying.

Or Zimmerman would be dead or a vegetable. Just sayin'

[Extraneus]

The funniest thing about the Obama-eats-dog autobiography quote is that it's a complete lie. Soetero was a Muslim.

Indonesia

Dog meat is haram for Muslims and as such, it is not consumed by most of Indonesia's predominantly Muslim population. However, dog meat is eaten by several of Indonesia's non-Muslim minorities. The Islamic faith considers the meat of canines to be ritually unclean, along with swine. The consumption of dog meat in Indonesia is mainly practiced by remote tribes and does not appear to be a widespread phenomena, given that Indonesia's population is largely Muslim.

Romney should have a team of volunteers to mine a few more stories like this from Obama's books.

"Mr. Axelrod, can you tell us who the white woman with dark hair, specks of green in her eyes and a voice like a wind chime is or was?"

[Extraneus]

You left out one thing from the story of that guy getting beaten, Sara.

Police will only say "multiple people" are involved.

What Parker says happened next could make the fallout from the brutal beating even worse. As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon."

[cboldt]

I suspect the "N" in Norton's name is "Nork."

[Captain Hate]

How did TK drive Tweety insane? Fogged.

When he wasn't being totally incoherent, he seemed to be railing against the people that question the Indonesian's citizenship.

[cboldt]

-- What did Lee do that was wrong? --

He didn't provide comforting information to the mob, in a timely fashion. He reported that the investigation to date did not establish probable cause that Zimmerman had committed a crime, but he was too terse in delivering that message. Also, that he cited the fact that it is illegal to arrest unless the police have probable cause.

Ostensibly, he was given a "no confidence" vote because the department was accused of having botched the investigation. The department was unaware of Zimmerman's past run-ins with the law; it did not obtain alcohol and drug tests; and it did not investigate the conjecture of Crump's narrative.

At the time of the no-confidence vote, I think Cutcher had come forward and said police hadn't taken her statement, even though she volunteered it.

Lee also drew criticism when he said he was "sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he'd probably do things differently. I'm sure Trayvon would, too," even though the evidence doesn't indicate that Martin did anything wrong.

[Who cares where he was born. He's alien.]

It's Matthews' worst nightmare that Obama is not one of us, and mine, too.
============

[Jim Ryan]

Ah! CH, I see. Was going whoosh over my lightly haired head.

[Bob]

The city commission is reacting to a shift in the legal dynamics of the case. By voting not to accept the coerced resignation and continuing to pay the police chief they punted. City Manager Napoleon Bonaparte leaves a trail of legal problems like toilet paper stuck to his shoe. This Bonaparte guy and the craven mayor Triplett were meeting with Crump and his 'ettes before the legal battles were even started. Since Lee did nothing wrong, and they essentially ran him out of his job without cause they are liable legally. Symbolically firing him looked like the smart thing at the time and cheaper than paying a huge settlement to the Martins. This pure defensive action on the part of the city. They are looking at Zimmerman walking, the Martins not being entitled to sue, and an expensive wrongful termination of a police chief lawsuit.

[cboldt]

-- The city commission is reacting to a shift in the legal dynamics of the case. --

There is also a shift in the public/political dynamic. The press is quite slow to catch on, and persists in reporting falsehood and erroneous supposition. But it seems a sufficient mass of truth will enter the public mind, which puts the knee-jerk members of the council at risk of losing reelection.

Separately, and not of much importance, I see CNN is erroneously reporting that Zimmerman filed a written NOT GUILTY plea on April 23. His plea was entered on April 12, and he waived appearance at arraignment.

This case is going to quickly disappear from prominence in the national dialog.

[Rob Crawford]

The press is quite slow to catch on, and persists in reporting falsehood and erroneous supposition.

So, business as usual for them?

[Hillary, Ho.]

I suspect, as I predicted years ago, that the drumbeat of the 'birthers' is getting louder, because of his essential alieness. I think what is bugging the Chrissies and the supporters of Obama is that Obama has given his best shots at showing a birth certificate, and those shots are simply being shown as blanks. The pressure to be definitive about the birth certificate will grow, and Romney doesn't have to say a word about it.

Sheriff Joe's exposes aren't phony. Twice, now, Obama has attempted to quell the rising, first with the 'Fight the Smears' certification, and now with the manufactured certificate from last year.

Frankly, I think there will be more civil discord as this stuff comes out than there will be about the Trayvon thing. There isn't much anger about the Trayvon thing except among the deluded. That won't be the case about the hoax that was perpetrated deliberately on the voting public.
================

[pagar]

"about the hoax that was perpetrated deliberately on the voting public."

"The Department of Commerce IG investigated and found that only about $60M could be accounted for, while some $40M is just plain gone."

"But nobody has ever been punished.

Why? Because the NOAA outrages are based on cronyism and fully condoned by our current brand of Big Government. Dr. Jane Lubchenco (pictured), the person who decides on reward or punishment at NOAA, is an environmental superstar and Obama's favorite eco-zealot. Dr. Lubchenco, with the cognizance and support of the president, has filled the upper management of NOAA with like-minded eco-zealots."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/04/where_are_the_rolling_heads_from_noaa.html#ixzz1sxazSiYt

Every dept in the Federal govt seems to operate in the same manner. Look at the Dept of Ag chasing the rabbit producers.

[NK]

TomM-- Optics-- last night TomM said in effect that it was important for GZ/O'Mara that things slow down for the world to settle down so as to give GZ the best chance for a just and fair result. I think that's right. One caveat of course, if there is any conflict between the substance of the defense and 'optics', substance has to win out (O'Mara's malpractice carrier would insist.) In that regard, once O'Mara gets his disclosure and a bill of particulars of the charge (ie details of the State's case) from the State, he's got to put together a killer motion to dismiss Murder 2 charges. That serves both optics and substance. When Lester grants that motion and reduces charges to manslaughter, the public (and the jury pool) starts getting the point that this is no murder case. Also plea negotiations: While the Fla Rules allow broad discretion to plea down to any charge (ie no prohibition pleaing murder down to aggravated assault), the victim's family MUST be consulted. If the State is considering accepting a plea to aggravated assault and say 6 months home confinement and probation, the 'optics' are real tough if there is still a Murder 2 charge pending. The whole racial grievance industry starts up again. If manslaugher is the remaining charge-- already reduced by the Court-- there's much better chance to reduce the plea to assault. I still don't see Judge Lester dismissing all charges or granting Immunity, but I bet he'll be very happy to reduce the charge to unlawful killing w/o malice or recklessness. And no, this won't happen in weeks, there will be months of lawyer stuff IMO.

[Steve]

Where is Romney? Where is Rubio? We can't elect political cowards to run the country.

Rubio, Jeb Bush and Romney are dropping in my estimation because of their unwillingness to speak in the defense of Zimmerman.

[NK]

Steve-- the is ZERO positive upside for a conservative politician to talk about the Zimmerman case, and a potential real bad downside.

[Steve]

What are the instructions from on high on what a person is entitled to do to protect themself when they are being beaten by an assailant?

Based on the Zimmerman rule is any person who shots an unarmed person subject to immediate arrest and schackles? Where, despite physical evidence that you were assaulted, if there are no witnesses to the shooting, the law requires that you prove your innocence rather than the prosecutor proving your guilt?

[AliceH]

Do I remember right, that a likely ETA for a ruling on GZ Immunity is June?

I think that would be perfect, what with the SCt decision on the ACA also expected around that time.

There's only so much oxygen to go around, and the MSM is going to drop TM/GZ and not look back as they focus all eyes on Obamacare ruling and implications.

[Steve]

"... Steve-- the is ZERO positive upside for a conservative politician to talk about the Zimmerman case, and a potential real bad downside. ..."

I am not a zero. The politician that speaks in favor of Zimmerman being treated fairly by the government will gain my vote.

Conservative political leaders are supposed to defend individuals against the power of the state. The Zimmerman case is a clear example of that.

[Why hasn't my Amway distributorship made me a wealthy man?]

I suspect, as I predicted years ago, that the drumbeat of the 'birthers' is getting louder, because of his essential alieness. I think what is bugging the Chrissies and the supporters of Obama is that Obama has given his best shots at showing a birth certificate, and those shots are simply being shown as blanks. The pressure to be definitive about the birth certificate will grow, and Romney doesn't have to say a word about it.

People I wish were in the Twin Towers on 9/11.
Kennedy assassination conspiracy buffs
People who collect Beanie Babies.
People who think Princess Diana was one of the most remarkable figures in history
and.....Birthers.

[Bob]

There is also a shift in the public/political dynamic. The press is quite slow to catch on, and persists in reporting falsehood and erroneous supposition. But it seems a sufficient mass of truth will enter the public mind, which puts the knee-jerk members of the council at risk of losing reelection.

100% agree. But as an old hand at small city government (just out of college about 30 years ago as asst city manager and later as various appointed commission chairs), I am fairly certain the commission has the legal department whispering frantically in their ear "Hiss, hiss. Do not, DO NOT, put the city on the hook for an enormous payout you clown you!". The city commission is catching it from all directions, as they should.

[cboldt]

- -Based on the Zimmerman rule is any person who shots an unarmed person subject to immediate arrest and schackles? --

No, for two reasons. First, Zimmerman wasn't arrested and shackled until after the lynch mob and lynch press geared up to railroad an innocent person for having the temerity to justifiably use deadly force. Second, the frequency of national lynch mob "justice" is low. You have a greater risk of unlawful or unethical prosecution from local prosecutors, than from a nationally ginned-up lynch mob.

Your risk of being wrongfully charged is a local problem, widely variable across these fruited plains. Seems to me Sanford is probably, now, the least likely locale to suffer a wrongful arrest and charge. Just like 9/12/2011 was probably the safest day to fly (if flights had been running).

[NK]

Steve-- I said zero positive upside. You've made up your mind about GZ, you'll vote conservative, so what upside does a conservative politician have saying what you want to hear. And until the discovery is complete and GZ's lawyer moves to dismiss murder charges, the public doesn't know for a fact what evidence the State has. What if the State has a witness the public doesn't know about that hurts GZ's case- a politician championing GZ would look bad. Completely predictable the conservative politician right now is only saying they have faith in the Florida courts. Then wait and see.

[cboldt]

-- Do I remember right, that a likely ETA for a ruling on GZ Immunity is June? --

You'll find a wide range of opinion on that one. I think June is a reasonable estimate. O'Mara will have the state's evidence in hand this Friday. What they don't show, they risk losing in later proceedings.

3.220(b)(3) The court may prohibit the state from introducing into evidence any of the foregoing material not disclosed, so as to secure and maintain fairness in the just determination of the cause.

The Motion for Immunity hearing (Dennis hearing, in FL legal parlance) includes substantive statements and argument. The hearing itself is probably on the second Friday in the Judge's biweekly rotation of activities. I'd guess May 18th or 25th as the immunity hearing.

The state has the weak hand here, and IMO, there is strategic advantage to put them on a hurry-up defensive posture.

[Chubby]

I seem to remember that at the beginning Romney said that this is a matter that needs to be handled by the American justice system and extended condolences to the Martin family. It was a measured and balanced statement imo.

[cboldt]

-- Conservative political leaders are supposed to defend individuals against the power of the state. The Zimmerman case is a clear example of that. --

The politicians don't know that yet. Santorum is a great example of saying too much, too soon. First that he doesn't know about the case, then opining that Zimmerman's actions were depraved.

[cboldt]

-- There's only so much oxygen to go around, and the MSM is going to drop TM/GZ and not look back ... --

That also takes the attention off the press's radically incorrect depiction of the case for weeks.

[Steve]

"... What if the State has a witness the public doesn't know about that hurts GZ's case- a politician championing GZ would look bad. ..."

I do not want Romney and Rubio to champion Zimmerman. I want them to demand the justice system treat him fairly.

For example, the prosecutor has insinuated that there is evidence not yet revealed that shows Zimmerman to be guilty of 2nd degree murder. Why keep that information secret? We have a right to a speedy trial in the US. At the least Romney and Rubio should demand to be informed of the evidence against Zimmerman to be assured he is not being railroaded.

[narciso]

Has Rich Lowry apologized for getting it so wrong?

[NK]

Timing? I see a more protracted schedule. The State discloses what it has to; O'Mara demands information that the State considers immaterial or priviliged. O'Mara makes a demand in writing. State moves for a protective order. Argument before the Court, a possible appeal by either side. GZ can also be expected to move to dismiss charges as legally unsustainable and reserve the right to an Immunity Hearing for any remaining charge. Argument before the Court on that motion, and a possible appeal. I agree with TomM's comment last night that slow walking the defense makes sense-- I think that's right. If the State discloses everything promptly and certifies there's nothing else? Why not move for dismissal and save Immunity for whatever's left after the Court reduces the charges. That's the timeline I see.

[Steve]

Rubio especially should identify with Zimmerman. Both are Hispanics living in Floridia who identify as Americans and want to be accepted as such.

I think Rubio is showing himself to be a Jeb Bush/Jon Huntsman rebublican. Not that there is anything really wrong with that. But not the type of person who is going to fight for small government and the rights of the self reliant individual.

[cboldt]

-- Rubio, Jeb Bush and Romney are dropping in my estimation because of their unwillingness to speak in the defense of Zimmerman. --

What they could do with relative safety (but they won't) is condemn the race hustlers and fringe radicals. For example, they could advocate for the arrest and charging of the people who put a bounty on Zimmerman's capture.

That sort of advocacy is agnostic as to Zimmerman, and elevates the power of the law compared with the mob.

[NK]

Chubby's comment describing Romney's statement about the justice system handling the case is all a conservative politician should be saying at this point. Indy voters will like that, because I bet they detest the 'Bam BS about "Trayvon looks like my son".

[Why hasn't my Amway distributorship made me a wealthy man?]

He should also indentify with Ricky Rubio.
They have the same last name.

He should also identify with Jack Ruby.
They have/had similar last names.

[Steve]

"... For example, they could advocate for the arrest and charging of the people who put a bounty on Zimmerman's capture. ..."

The government of Florida says it has evidence Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. If you are an agrieved minority, it is not so unreasonable to call for violence against someone the goverment says is a murderer of one of yours.

[AliceH]

"...the type of person who is going to fight for small government..." is not the one who demands Federal level elected officials or candidates for national office to assert anything about a State / district level court case, beyond supporting the general principle of justice and equality before the law.

[cboldt]

-- If the State discloses everything promptly and certifies there's nothing else? Why not move for dismissal and save Immunity for whatever's left after the Court reduces the charges. That's the timeline I see. --

I see the reverse. Defendant uses a narrow time window of the incident in asserting statutory Immunity. That motion will be filed on May 8. WILL BE.

The backup, and more complex line of action is Motion to Dismiss for not substantiating all the elements of the charge. Not that I wouldn't pursue that, just that I would not condition or time my pursuit of immunity on the results of a Motion to Dismiss or Reduce.

[Steve]

"... beyond supporting the general principle of justice and equality before the law. ..."

being in prison, being in court in schackles, effectively having to apologize to the family of the person who tried to kill you. That is not justice. The justice system in Florida says it has secret evidence that Zimmerman is a 2nd degree murderer. It is not justice to have the government assuring the mob that wants to hang you that evidence exists you are guilty.

[Chubby]

((There's only so much oxygen to go around, and the MSM is going to drop TM/GZ and not look back ... ))

yes but if certain parties want the spotlight back, they will find a way to grab it back. (assuming for some reason that they do want it back)

[Chubby]

((effectively having to apologize to the family of the person who tried to kill you.))

he did not have to. he apparently wanted to.

[cboldt]

Looked at another way, Immunity stands on the same footing, regardless of the case in chief being murder or manslaughter (or some BS lower charge like aggravated battery). The immunity case looks at a smaller window of time than the murder charge does. It starts with Zimmerman being decked, at the earliest, and could start with a witnesses observation that Zimmerman is pinned by Martin.

In contrast, the murder charge looks back to the allegations of profiling, pursuing, and confronting.

If Zimmerman loses the immunity case pre-trial (including losing the appeal), he can still raise self defense at trial - he loses nothing. And at trial, in order to obtain justification in the eyes of the law, the burden shifts to the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions were NOT self defense.

[Danube of Thought]

"O'Mara's malpractice carrier would insist."

You think O'Mara consults with his carrier about trial tactics?

[jimmyk]

he did not have to. he apparently wanted to.

For the umpteenth time, Zimmerman did not apologize to the family, he expressed sympathy.

If you are an agrieved minority, it is not so unreasonable to call for violence against someone the goverment says is a murderer of one of yours.

Huh????

As for Romney opining, how would it look if he were to express outrage about Zimmerman's indictment, and then the judge tosses it out? To the rabble it would look like Romney influenced the outcome. Also, Romney doesn't have all the facts and evidence, do we want him acting like Obama?

[Captain Hate]

It's Matthews' worst nightmare that Obama is not one of us, and mine, too.

A frequently banned commenter @ AoS makes the continual point that the Indonesian doesn't share the values of regular Americans and is rather opposed to them. I don't think that's a particularly shocking comment because I think an examination of all of his public statements confirms this. However the clean toga crowd is averse to point this out. I think Willard refers to it obliquely which, given the disaster of a nerfball campaign that McCain ran, I'll take but I wish he'd be more forceful about it.

[NK]

DoT-- that was a glib reference to TomM's comment about the 'optics' of the case. I agree the optics are important, and that O'Mara will probably slow walk the defense, methodically chipping away at the State's case to show Judge Lester and the public that there is nothing there. But if a question comes down to optics or a substantive legal requirement, the defense will act like a lawyer -- as it should.

[NK]

JimmyK-- you raise a very important point about GZ's statement-- it was a statement of sympathy for loss. It most certainly not a confession or act of contrition-- in fact-- it was kind of defiant, sympathy, but I did nothing wrong.

[Captain Hate]

Also, Romney doesn't have all the facts and evidence, do we want him acting like Obama?

Bang spot on. Let the Community Organizer in Chief be the sole imbecilic candidate commenting on a local matter that the MFM and he have irresponsibly pushed into the national conversation.

[Steve]

"... Huh???? ..."

What is so hard to understand. The government of Florida, in the form of the state appointed special prosecutor, says it has evidence Zimmerman is a 2nd degree murderer. If the government says he is a killer, why not be angry and want the killer to be attacked for his crime?

We all know the government is full of it. That it is trying to appease the mob. That is where political leaders of decent, law abiding and fair people have to speak up and defend Zimmerman. Demand the government release its evidence and get on with the trial.

The morning joes, Don Imuses and Bernard McGuirks of the media world say Zimmerman did wrong

[narciso]

With the possible exception of Bernie, that's the three monkeys writing Hamlet.

[NK]

Timing-- aside from general principles of defense attorneys dragging things out and slowly chipping away at the State's case, there is another reason why O'Mara will make other substantive motions before an Immunity Motion. Immunity -- is complete immunity against criminal or CIVIL claims over the events. Below is a link to Florida Code 776.032(there are hyper links to related statutes), if Immunity is granted GZ can't be sued for wrongful death by the family, AND if they sued GZ anyway, they would owe GZ attorneys' fees in defending against any such lawsuit. Granting Immunity will be a very big deal for Judge Lester. I think GZ's lawyer saves that motion until he's whittled down the charges. The link: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.032

[Clarice]

Dot on Carter:"I really think that at this point he can best serve his country by dying. Soon."
I second that thought.

On Matthews rant: I think the dog story just now brings home to more people how alien Obama is and how he rubbed that in our faces in his book and the media ignored it.

On the Sanford Council decision on Lee: I applaud it and wish to noe tat perhaps they finally realized Crump was playing them to better his chances at suing THEM>

[jimmyk]

What is so hard to understand.

If you mean "understandable" as "predictable", ok, given that we have Sharptons among us, but if you mean it as "forgivable" or "defensible", fuggedaboutit.

[narciso]

Well that's possible, but the more obvious answer is he's taking Blutarsky's advice about 'drinking heavily'

[DebinNC]

In contrast, the murder charge looks back to the allegations of profiling, pursuing, and confronting.

Gilbreath, the lead investigator, signed and swore the allegations of GZ's "profiling, pursuing and confronting" + assuming TM "was a criminal" + feeling he "didn't belong in the gated community" in the affidavit were true. But on the stand, Gilbreath under oath admitted "profiled" was probably a bad word choice, that there's no evidence GZ wasn't returning to his truck when he met TM, and that there was no evidence showing who attacked first. I don't see how there could even be a murder trial after Gilbreath's performance, unless O'Steen or Corey disavow/discredit him somehow.

[PaulV]

I think the slow death of Corey's case against Z is for the best. It will be painful for the prosecution to reveal what little they have.

[AliceH]

We all know the government is full of it. That it is trying to appease the mob.

Nothing Rubio or Romney can do or say about Zimmerman will make one damn bit of difference to the ultimate disposition of Zimmerman's case.

It seems to me, you are demanding that specific politicians appease you.

[Extraneus]

What's the legal definition of "concern troll"?

[Extraneus]

Don't forget that he "falsely" assumed, Deb. Not only did the state certify that Zimmerman "assumed" that TM was considering a criminal act, but that he "falsely assumed". I believe this is where the Skittles come in as evidence.

[DebinNC]

What's the legal definition of "concern troll"?

Orlando Sentinel reporter seeing his Pulitzer dreams about to go "kaboom!".

[cboldt]

I notice most press accounts have Zimmerman taking his written not guilty plea on the wrong date. Bloomberg says April 16th, others assign yesterday, because yesterday is the day the motion and pleading were made public.

But page 2 of the Motion (granted, it IS upside down, but still ...) clearly shows it being filed on the 12th of April.

[Jimmy Olson]

Extra! Extra! Sanford FL City Council resolves to send George Zimmerman to go and git Barry Obama's birth certificate.

[cboldt]

Town where Trayvon Martin died in 'limbo' after city nixes chief's resignation - CNN - April 24

He was released from jail on bond early Monday and hours later entered a not guilty plea.

ROTFL. Nobody who cares to know the details, can trust the media to get it right.

[Rob Crawford]

It seems to me, you are demanding that specific politicians appease you.

WhyTF not? We're demanding the legal system obey the law.

'Bout effing time that viewpoint get some "appeasement".

[Danube of Thought]

If you are an aggrieved minority, it is not so unreasonable to call for violence against someone the government says is a murderer of one of yours.

It may not be unreasonable, but depending on the circumstances it can be criminal.