Trayvon Martin: New From Daily Beast

Aram Roston of The Daily Beast has George Zimmerman's account of Trayvon Martin's last words, as well as leaks from law enforcement officials familiar with the case.

As has been reported, Zimmerman told police officials that he lost sight of Martin and went around a townhouse to see where he was. Then he claimed Martin confronted him and punched him, knocking him down.

According to The Daily Beast’s source, Zimmerman told police that when he was on the ground, Martin straddled him, striking him, and then tried to smother him.

Zimmerman claimed that he yelled for help, and that various neighbors who peered out to see the fight from their backyards didn’t get involved. Zimmerman, the source said, told officers he was so paralyzed by fear that he initially forgot he had a gun, but he said that after Martin noticed his 9mm pistol, Zimmerman pulled it out of his belt holder and fired one round, a hollow-point—the round that killed Martin. (The autopsy report on Martin has not yet been released.)

According to the source, Zimmerman told police that Martin’s last words after the shooting were, “Okay, you got it.” He said the phrase twice, then turned and fell face-down on the ground.

(Martin’s father told reporters last month that police had told him his son’s last words were, “You got me.” Benjamin Crump, the family’s lawyer, said he doesn’t believe either account.)

That seems to broadly match the story the father told.

According to the source, Zimmerman told police he didn’t realize that Martin was seriously injured, and that he lunged to get on top of him after the teenager fell to the ground. Moments later, a police officer from Sanford arrived, placed him in handcuffs and took his gun.

OK, that is a new detail which may explain Ms. Cutcher, who saw Zimmerman above Martin after the gunshot.

Here is one for the voice experts:

Then there are the dramatic cries for help heard on the 911 call during the struggle. Martin’s mother said it was her son’s voice, and the special prosecutor in the case agrees. But Zimmerman’s supporters argue that the pleas came from him.

The source familiar with the case said that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators had Zimmerman lie on his back in another location in an effort to recreate the position he said he had been in during the shooting. Then, the source said, investigators recorded Zimmerman as he shouted what had been heard on the 911 calls: cries such as, “Help me!”

Well, well - I have argued that unless the police waterboarded Zimmerman they were unlikely to get credible screaming from him, and the audio forensic experts say that matching speech to screams doesn't work.  Who knew that Zimmerman would volunteer to scream? Well, he took a long time to lawyer up.  And does the Miranda warning say "Anything you scream may be used against you"? I don't think so. That said, this opens the possibility that the investigators actually had something an audio expert could work with, and that the matching effort came out against Zimmerman. 

Interesting - voice evidence wasn't mentioned in the arrest affidavit but could explain the attitude of the prosecutor.  As to whether this hypothetical voice matching can survive a defense effort to reject it at trial, who knows?  My guess is the defense will look for experts to say that screams under true duress, such as in a fight, can't be mimicked voluntarily.  Is that true?  Beats me.

Zimmerman is the dumbest and most cooperative guilty man in America if he is making his story up. Or maybe he is experiencing PTSD and post-concussive memory loss.  Move to dismiss!

Here is a heck of a concession from the Martin family attorney:

Crump said it was not clear that Martin threw the first punch but, argued that even if he did, Zimmerman’s actions launched the entire sequence of events. “Trayvon Martin had every right to stand his ground,” Crump said. “We believe that Trayvon went to his grave not knowing who this strange man was that was approaching and confronting him.”

"Not clear"?  If they are entertaining the notion that Martin did throw the first punch, that is helpful for Zimmerman. Let's further note that "approaching and confronting" aren't "punching"; not to sound crazy or anything, but instead of punching Zimmerman a calm "Just headed back to my house to watch the ball game" might have been a better response. Promoting a message of calm and restraint might even be a better way to honor Trayvon's memory.

Comments

[Danube of Thought]

"Obama’s lawyer, Alexandra Hill, admitted that the image of Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and made the absurd claim that, therefore, it cannot be used as evidence to confirm his lack of natural born citizenship status."

Can we see the transcript of that shocking admission?

[xbradtc]

You're right, windansea. That's why Zimmerman should have let the police handle the situation. They're trained to do so, but even with that training things can go sideways quickly. Zimmerman's adrenaline was probably off the charts after he shot Martin. Still, he had his weapon, and Martin was down. It would have been prudent for him to back away. But according to the story above, he didn't.

And yet he was possessed enough to only fire ONE shot, which can be seen as an indication that he was only trying to remove a threat to himself, rather than to kill Martin.

How many times have we seen dashboard camera footage of cops letting off every round in the magazine?

[Threadkiller]

Good catch DoT. She did not make any such admission. I do not have a transcript. I found this at Apuzzo's site:

"After calling to the witness stand Mr. Moran and Mr. Purpura, who gave testimony as to why they brought the ballot challenge, and introducing documents showing there is a question as to Mr. Obama’s identity, I called Brian Wilcox to testify as an internet image expert. Mr. Wilcox was going to testify on how the Obama April 27, 2011, long-form birth certificate has been altered and manipulated either by computer software or by a human or both, producing a forged documents, and that since the image is not reliable, we need to see the original paper version. Obama’s lawyer objected to my proffered testimony. I then offered that I would not need to have Mr. Wilcox testify, provided that Obama stipulated that the internet image of his birth certificate could not be used as evidence by either Judge Masin or the New Jersey Secretary of States and that he presented to the court or the Secretary of State no other evidence of his identity or place of birth. Judge Masin also asked Obama’s attorney whether she would so stipulate. She did so stipulate, agreeing that both the court and the Secretary of State cannot rely on the internet birth certificate as evidence of Obama’s place of birth and that Obama has produced no other evidence to the court regarding his place of birth. She also argued that Obama has no legal obligation to produce any such evidence to get on the primary ballot. Judge Masin then took the issue under advisement. Having produced absolutely no evidence of his eligibility for the Office of President, Judge Masin will decide whether as a matter of law Obama has a legal duty to produce such evidence before he may be placed on the New Jersey ballot in light of the pending objection filed against him. If he decides that he does, then the Objection will be successful. If he decides that Obama has no such legal obligation, the Objection would fail on the first issue."

I do not take this as her saying the BC is a forgery. She does admit the online cert is completely useless. She also admits that sufficient ID of Obama has NEVER been released.

[Pofarmer]

Barbara, you sound like Jim Cantori the other day on the Weather Channel. He was in some small town, Thurston Iowa, I think, marveling at how the "spontaneous volunteers" just came out of the woodwork and started cleaning up trees and helping folks clean out houses, and bring tractors and heavy equipment into town. Why, he couldn't believe they weren't waiting for professional help. Yeah, it's what we DO. Get it done. Why wait for the man? All this "he should have waited for the police" makes me wanna wretch.

[Threadkiller]

It is unfortunate that the claim of an admission of forgery has been made. She did not do that. Period. There is so much to be had with what she did say. I wish they would run with it.

One thing is for sure, her boss is none to happy with her performance.

" Jerome R. Corsi made the latest Obama eligibility issue famous with this story about the hearing. Then, on Tuesday afternoon, Alexandra Hill’s boss called Mario Apuzzo directly. CNAV heard first from Nick Purpura and then directly from Apuzzo.

Apuzzo received a call from a man identifying himself as Angelo Genova, the lead partner of Genova, Burns, Giantomasi and Webster. Genova was agitated and almost overwrought. He demanded to know why Apuzzo had videotaped the proceedings (a thing Apuzzo did not do), and then said that he would “move to strike the video from the record.” Genova also said that:

Alexandra M. Hill is not working on the case of Purpura and Moran v. Obama any longer. Angelo Genova has taken that case over and is handling it personally. Death threats have come to the firm. Apuzzo told CNAV that Ms. Hill was the main target of these threats. Billy Baer also talked to Apuzzo, after CNAV called Dan Haggerty for comment. Apuzzo apparently told Baer that Genova never made clear whether the threatening person was threatening Ms. Hill alone or “the firm in general,” whatever that might mean.

Apuzzo offered to Genova to condemn the threats for the record, on his blog. Genova hastily declined. He then dwelt at length on the making of the video or videos and accused Apuzzo of making them without the court’s permission."

http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/04/18/firstamendment/obama-eligibility-media-pressure/

[Sara]

Me too, Pofarmer, especially since my years in Calif. have taught me that the police are more often than not the ones to fear.

[Pofarmer]

And, the attack on Bain Capitol commences.

http://www.sfweekly.com/2012-04-18/news/mitt-romney-bain-capital-georgetown-steel-armco-creative-destruction/

[Threadkiller]

DoT, my last link includes video of the trial. I am watching a little of it now. I will stop as soon as my buzz gets killed.

[Sara]

I think you said it best TK: What a mess!

[Danube of Thought]

TK, please alert us all when a grownup says that something meaningful has occurred.

[Threadkiller]

Is Arpaio no longer considered a grown-up?

[MJW]

Apuzzo told CNAV that Ms. Hill was the main target of these threats. Billy Baer also talked to Apuzzo, after CNAV called Dan Haggerty for comment.

Grizzly Adams!?!

[Barbara]

Why wait for the man? All this "he should have waited for the police" makes me wanna wretch.

Pofarmer,

People who become *involved* and pitch in to help are to be applauded. Zimmerman did what he was supposed to do when he called the police to tell them of a suspicious person in the area. His problems began when he took it a step further than was required or necessary.

As far as Sara's statement that the police in California are more often than not the ones to fear, that is just plain nonsense.

[Pofarmer]

So, avg citizen calls police, perp hides while police drive by, perp walks on. Or, avg citizen calls police, citizen keeps perp in sight, police get to at least see perp. If there have been a rash of burglaries in your neighborhood, you are gonna want the cops to at least interview the perp. Ueah, maybe it's beyond the call, but, heh, I thought that's what America was about, citizens helping each other. Maybe not? Heaven forbid someone would go any extra step. Hell, if someone, anyone, had gone out and tackled martin off top of Z, situation is probably over. What do they do? Call the fuckin cops? What are the cops gonna do? Take statements and collect evidence of whatever happened before they got to the scene, which is exactly what they did. The cops do not have any authority or duty to PREVENT a crime. They only press charges after a crime is occured. Only vigilant citizens can prevent anything.

[Pofarmer]

Oh, and has been posted multiple times, all Martin had to do was GO HOME.

[BlahBlahBlah]

"His problems began when he took it a step further than was required or necessary."

and taking it a step forward is his doing...?

Watching where a subject is running to when he takes off isn't overly necessary if you don't mind him getting away, but it is unbelievably helpful if he is to be caught too. There was a gate at the end of the pathway Martin ran towards; being able to tell the cops "he ran right/left out the gate" would have been an unbelievable help.

The only way Zimmerman is foolish for looking to see where Martin ran to is if Martin really is the unbelievable thug the Left is insisting Zimmerman profiled him as. If Zimmerman merely thought he was a punk thief who runs away when confronted (as he had) then why not see if you can spot the direction he ran?

Plus, you act like he searched everywhere for him for him or something. Yet, again, Zimmerman just happened to get jumped by Martin within sight of the Truck...

[Stace]

Standard advice in the concealed carry community is to say no more to the police than here's the gun, there's the dead guy, those people are witnesses, and I will be happy to cooperate further, but not without a lawyer by my side. None of the concealed carry gurus recommend talking to the police without a lawyer. You have too much adrenaline pumping and maybe some injuries. You really are not in good enough condition to avoid saying something stupid that will cost you later.

[Sara]

Barbara: You are the nonsensical one, I am the one who collected a decent settlement for policy brutality, in which both my back and several lumbar vertebrae were broken and my 90 year old Mother ended up on respirator nearly dying from fear.. You want to make another snide remark B*tch?

[Sara]

both my arm and....

police

[Bruce]

That's my take and that's why Zimmerman was foolish in providing any info to the police. If "Jim/Jeremy" stated that "Martin was rising, as if to flee", then Zimmerman has a very real problem if he minimized Martin's action in releasing and rising.

I think that the problem here though is in the concept of "withdrawal". Here is the Florida jury instruction on 3.6(f) Justifiable Use of Deadly Force

...

However, the use of deadly force is not justifiable if you find:
...
2. (Defendant) initially provoked the use of force against [himself] [herself], unless:

b. In good faith, the defendant withdrew from physical contact with (assailant) and clearly indicated to (assailant) that [he] [she] wanted to withdraw and stop the use of deadly force, but (assailant) continued or resumed the use of force.

In other words, Martin would have had to clearly indicate to Zimmerman that he wanted to withdraw and stop the use of deadly force.

The general rule seems to be that the state must show that the party that had been threatening imminent death or great bodily harm had reasonably communicated a desire and intent to withdraw from the confrontation. The person who purportedly withdrew or attempted to withdraw (or the state) has the burden of showing that the other person knew or should reasonably have known that they were actually withdrawing.

Something like that.

Point being that without more, Martin merely partially, or even mostly, removing his weight from Zimmerman's chest, if that was indeed what happened, is unlikely, I think, to translate into withdraw in the mind of Zimmerman. The state would have to show that Zimmerman would need to have understood and believed that Martin was, indeed, withdrawing, and would no longer endanger Zimmerman's life.

Let me add though that if Martin had then seen the gun, and lunged for it, I would think it likely that no withdrawal had occurred, or if it had (unlikely I think), Martin would again be the aggressor with the lunge for the gun.

[Adjoran]

I have yet to see any actual evidence that Zimmerman broke any law, including the charging affidavit.

But you should never talk to the police, innocent or guilty, because it cannot possibly help you in ANY way to do so. That alone should be enough.

[cboldt]

Another map at The 411 about the Trayvon Martin timeline - Eric Zorn - April 19

Retreat View Circle is inside the gated community. South Oregon Ave. is the public street that runs parallel with the section of Retreat View Circle that is being discussed and dissected.

If there are substantial gaps in Zimmerman's timeline, it may be that he walked to South Oregon Ave. for a peek, rather than stopping at the point Dan Linehan (Wagist) identifies as "E", which is at Retreat View Circle.

The linked article above has, near its bottom, links to Wagist and to a completely different scenario by Susan Simpson in The View From LL2 - for those who enjoy that sort of thing.

[BR]

TK, when I saw the picture of how young Obama's NJ defense lawyer is, it reminded me of the Germans in the last months of WWII using young boys to fight for them.

[Reddy]

"Another map at The 411 about the Trayvon Martin timeline - Eric Zorn"

Eric Zorn is a lib prick who writes everything with a lefty twist. Ignore anything he writes.

[bunkerbuster]

For the record, Fox is still headlining their March 23 story: ``Witness: Martin Attacked Zimmerman"
The anonymous witness doesn't say that at all. "John" simply says he "believes" he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Murdoch's Daily Mail newspaper featured the same story, but edited the quote to eliminate two "I believes" and added some paraphrasing not included in the Fox print version.
The Fox online print version also says "John" cited Martin as "mostly the aggressor." Again, that's a very odd, wildly inaccurate characterization of what we hear "John" say on the Fox videotape and what he's quoted as saying.
The version still up on the Web site of Fox's Tampa Bay affiliate includes this assault on grammar and logic as well: `` The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.''
All Fox versions assert that "John's" testimony compelled police to release Zimmerman.
But of course the truncated, edited, paraphrased statement from "John" includes no mention of how the altercation started or how Zimmerman shot Martin.
All this would simply be another case of atrocious journalism were it not for the primacy of "John" to the white power narrative about what happened that night.
Surely much, if not all, the whining about how horrible it is that Zimmerman was arrested and will face a hearing and, likely, a trial, is based on the beliefs as risibly spun by Fox:
1. An eyewitness saw what happened.
2. That witness said Martin attacked Zimmerman.
Even though the witness didn't tell Fox anything like that AND Fox clearly played around with his exact words…

[BR]

Well, the pic from this article is here.

The commenter "TruthMakesPeace" at 12:43 below that article is wise, also advising not to jump to conclusions. It was a stipulation. We'll see what the judge does.

mtl4truth at 1:34 also very interesting.

[BR]

TK, as you're listening to the video of the NJ proceeding, can you transcribe for us exactly what was said that she stipulated to?

[Extraneus]

Libs are becoming media critics now? Heh.

[cboldt]

Warning Graphic Photo: Possible New Evidence Shows George Zimmerman's Bloodied Head - ABC - Matt Gutman

I don't see any blood. Those are stains from redgrass.

[cboldt]

The photographer told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The source saw Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and claims the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible; the gunpowder marks could show that Martin was shot at very close range.

The photographer says that after the shooting Zimmerman asked to call his wife. When the photographer asked what to say, Zimmerman allegedly blurted out "man, just tell her I shot someone."

Crump argues like BinkeyBuster, "How bad could it have been if they didn't take him to the hospital [and] didn't stitch him up"

[liontooth]

-- At that point does the act of pursuing Martin mean Zimmerman acted as a policeman? --
The point where he uses force, unlawfully. He can follow, he can shout, he can insult, he can mock, he can do anything short of an action that would cause a reasonable person to apprehend unwelcome/unlawful touching.

Posted by: cboldt | April 19, 2012 at 04:55 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mocking, shouting or insulting someone while armed can't be legal as those actions would be provoking someone to react. Carrying the weapon is for self-defense only, not to bail yourself out of a self-created situation you incited.

[cboldt]

-- Mocking, shouting or insulting someone while armed can't be legal as those actions would be provoking someone to react. --

Got a cite for that proposition? No, you don't. Arguments happen many times a day, it's a part of the human condition. The law pertaining to "provocation" (jury instructions, hornbook law, etc.) define provocation as sufficient action to justify a reasonable person to throw a punch or other wise act in self defense.

"Being armed" is irrelevant.

-- Carrying the weapon is for self-defense only, not to bail yourself out of a self-created situation you incited. --

True, but your "incited" is just a substitute for "provoked." Nobody has alleged any action by Zimmerman that comes remotely close to provocation.

[cboldt]

Shorter version - being the one who provoked is the same as being the aggressor. Taking action that is either initiating unlawful force, or that a reasonable person would take as "about to initiate unlawful force." Uttering a death threat while moving as if to throw, for example.

[cboldt]

-- Mocking, shouting or insulting someone while armed can't be legal as those actions would be provoking someone to react. --

You are allowed to react back, short of initiating unlawful force.

[DebinNC]

I'd love to hear a jury consultant describe a "reasonable person" because Corey/de la Rionda will be seeking 12 unreasonables.

[cboldt]

Jeralyn Merrit has a good discussion of Arthur hearing at The Burden of Proof at George Zimmerman's Bail Hearing

I've said a few times I won't be surprised if the state agrees to bail to avoid having to show its evidence before the [immunity] hearing.

Not showing evidence is a concession that there is at least reasonable doubt. If the prosecutor believes it cannot prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, then it is unethical to charge the suspect.

[What that meaning is, even kim doesn't know.]

Heh, a panicked head of the law firm taking over has meaning.
==================

[cboldt]

-- Corey/de la Rionda will be seeking 12 unreasonables. --

Good luck with that. Other than the taint he gets by associating himself with Corey's decision to charge Zimmerman, I don't have any basis to form an opinion of de la Rionda. Is he a new age touch feely grandstanding jerk too?

[narciso]

So Air America TV has a poll where Obama is leading Mitt, by 6 in Ohio, 54/46, which is another way of putting that they had the same result in Feb 45/39, and it says they found
Obama more likeable then Mitt by double digits, Deb I think we found your jury.

[narciso]

Oh krikey, they are having Keefums on the Steph show Sunday, 'illustrating absurdity
by being absurd'

[cboldt]

-- Deb I think we found your jury. --

Air Amerikkka.

[DebinNC]

Cboldt, this family is on a crusade against de la Rionda. I hope their son's murder is reinvestigated because of the attention Bernie will be getting now.

[narciso]

Blutarski was righter than he even knew, facepalm with an Old One;

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/04/19/european-civil-war/#comments

[narciso]

'If a dog barks and few hear it, did it happen?

http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/lamestream-media-team-obama-not-keen-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=f

[Jack is Back!]

Cross posted on new thread. ICYMI, new photo of GZ's injuries:

Bond hearing today at 9AM.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/20/151017973/examining-media-coverage-of-the-trayvon-martin-case

Very interesting discussion about the media coverage in this case. Crump hired a PR firm early on.
They also talk about how politicized the case has become.
The audio will be available at 9:00 AM Eastern time.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

Blah blah blah
That photo was taken two years ago and he looks about as scary as Mickey Mouse

unless maybe you are one of the Audio Video aides pushing the overhead projector around.

[cboldt]

-- They also talk about how politicized the case has become. --

As always, slow on the uptake. The (IMO correct) charge that this was mob vs. law has been circulating for weeks.

And until the court starts to apply the law as it is supposed to, the mob is winning, and the law is losing.

[narciso]

So they followed the Levick Group precedent with the Gitmo bar, two of whose clients will be sent to El Salvador.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

That's my take and that's why Zimmerman was foolish in providing any info to the police. If "Jim/Jeremy" stated that "Martin was rising, as if to flee", then Zimmerman has a very real problem if he minimized Martin's action in releasing and rising.

Rick
That's a scenario that I've imagined as well.
I still don't think TM ever saw the gun but I think TM figured he had better take off when "John" yelled that he was calling 911.
Now that GM was free from covering up and hanging on for dear life in order to ward off punches he could draw his pistol and shoot.
That would change things, wouldn't it?

[cboldt]

So, CNN is going to cover the bond hearing, live. I wonder if CNN will produce transcripts of the proceeding, like it does for its regular programming. I can't stomach watching those blowhard commentators - plus, it's nice outdoors and I have chores.

[cboldt]

-- I still don't think TM ever saw the gun but I think TM figured he had better take off when "John" yelled that he was calling 911. --

That doesn't square with Martin uttering a death threat near the end of the fight.

[DebinNC]

Love to know how that bleeding head pic appeared on bond hearing day.

[Rob Crawford]

And yet he was possessed enough to only fire ONE shot, which can be seen as an indication that he was only trying to remove a threat to himself, rather than to kill Martin.

Does not follow. Most self-defense training courses teach you to fire two shots, minimum. The one I attended we were taught to fire two shots to the upper chest, pause to see if that stopped the threat, and if not to fire one more to the face.

Also, folks, why are you trying to find meaning in the last words of someone who just went into shock and is bleeding out? Trayvon's last words are more likely random than meaningful.

[Extraneus]

I think the pic is devastating evidence. If there were only one wound, it could have been argued that Zimmerman fell, or was pushed down during the "struggle." Obvious multiple wounds indicate that his head was being bashed against the ground, which a reasonable person would surely take as a prelude to serious bodily harm.

And ABC News, no less.

[Extraneus]

(Assuming that's Zimmerman's head, of course.)

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2012/04/02/tmprom3/large.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2n-i2tVbNLRl_1ZghazbP5TOdhnAkocxpHkz6sLnoMHiC

Crump and the PR must feel that now Zimmie is in the hoosgaw, they can start releasing more contempory photos of TM.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

Apparently this forum is different that others I haunt. I'll simply post the link.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2n-i2tVbNLRl_1ZghazbP5TOdhnAkocxpHkz6sLnoMHiC

His Mother's B-day. Six days before he died.
The family and PRfirm/lawyers have decided to release photos of TM as a 17 year old.

[DebinNC]

Live on HLN at 9:00. Discussion now says GZ's readily turning himself in indicates he'll likely get bail.

[narciso]

What I was referring to earlier;

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57417494/guantanamo-bay-prison-releases-first-prisoners-in-a-year-with-resettlement-of-chinese-ethnic-uighurs/

Having read Cummmings 'Cyclone' I got a better
grip on the Uighur's plight, but I'm still not confident about their release.

[Melinda Romanoff]

narciso-

They will survive the flight, not the "train ride", I fear.

[Jane (where is Jon Corzine?)]

Zimmerman bail hearing going on now.

[narciso]

Well they are sending them to El Salvador, who used to be more allied to Taiwan, but now to Mainland China, under Funes, so I see your point,

[cboldt]

-- Does not follow. Most self-defense training courses teach you to fire two shots, minimum. --

The followup round didn't chamber.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

While I think Zimmie is essentially telling the truth, he is definately spinning the events in his favor. I'm guessing he hit his head when he fell. Unless a person is unconcious you reaally couldn't keep banging someone's head on asidewalk repeatedly. How do you pull the head back up? Zimmie has pretty closed crop hair; no handhold there.

His arms wre pinned but he was able to reach for the gun. His mouth was covered but he could scream like a little girl. The dialogue sounds like a bad movie script.
When one is on the ground and is punched there is nowhere for your head to snap back.
One IJ Donnelly suffered a sub orbital blowout while in that position.
Look, Zimmie sees TM, thinks he's suspicious, TM sees Zimmie, TM runs but not far. Zimmie continues to look for TM, TM
sees Zimmie and goes after him. TM probably threw the first punch. Zimmie spends the next minute leading wth his face.
This much the cops believe but I'm guessing the rest of his story sounds like crap but basically sticks to it.

Zimmie's story fits the time line, the forensics and witnesses seemed to lean toward team Zimmie and TM is dead so he can't tell his side of the story. This makes Zimmie "The best witness" according to Serino and everything points to "the decedent as the aggressor" .

Sounds like we're hearing different stories from the guy on the bacony though.
Curiouser and curiouser.

[cboldt]

-- Crump and the PR must feel that now Zimmie is in the hoosgaw, they can start releasing more contempory photos of TM. --

Yep. ABC is in Crump's hand. ABC likely had this material at the same time they ran the "he's not injured" video.

[cboldt]

-- How do you pull the head back up? --

Hands on the sides, or by the collar.

Remember the fight went on for over a minute, so the events like hand over mouth, slamming head, punch in nose, etc. aren't necessarily simultaneous.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

Is there more than one gash on his head?
Is just blood? Needs no "enhancing" ABC.
They must have frontal face photos as well.

[Captain Hate]

they are having Keefums on the Steph show Sunday

I'm wondering if Bathtub Boy badmouthed ESPN on his way out the door; if so those turds can't be happy about this.

[cboldt]

gunpowder burns on his now-infamous hoodie.

Too bad the neighbor didn't go out and pull Martin off Zimmerman.

[Porchlight]

But you should never talk to the police, innocent or guilty, because it cannot possibly help you in ANY way to do so.

I understand this in principle, but it did help Zimmerman. He was released. It was only the race baiters and the Obama administration (but I repeat myself) that got him into the spot that he is in now.

[Tardar]

"Is just blood?"

Probably just ketchup from some fast food packets Z had in his pockets.

[cboldt]

-- They must have frontal face photos as well. --

I'd think so. The friendly neighbor was documenting the injuries, so would have taken a picture of George's bloody face too.

Interesting what ABC chooses to show, eh? The media is essentially inciting riot.

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

How do you pull the head back up? --

Hands on the sides, or by the collar.

Remember the fight went on for over a minute, so the events like hand over mouth, slamming head, punch in nose, etc. aren't necessarily simultaneous

You may have won that round but Cripes, it seems GZ did not try to fight back at all.
Both hands on a collar or on the side of a head mean no hand free to punch or ward off blows.
GZ let himself be a punching bag.

[narciso]

How about that poll, out of Ahia, did they just pick Sgt Schultz viewers?

[cboldt]

-- everything points to "the decedent as the aggressor" . --

And, Martin's "you got it" comes after the shot is fired, so whatever he is doing from that point, standing, backing off, etc. is after the use of deadly force, not relevant to the analysis.

[cboldt]

-- but Cripes, it seems GZ did not try to fight back at all. --

Can't tell. Might have fought, but without result. In his version, he is trying to minimize injury by shifting his body so his head was positioned over grass, so he is putting up some form or resistance.

Martin has a significant reach advantage, and may have a significant strength advantage too.

[AliceH]

-- How do you pull the head back up? --

Ears.

[cboldt]

Crump goes from "Trayvon wouldn't start it" to "Trayvon didn't inflict serious injury."

[Herman Munster]

"How do you pull the head back up?"

Rivets on side of neck.

[Captain Hate]

What poll, narc?

[DebinNC]

Hard to believe Bernie de la Rionda is the best prosecutor Corey's got, given the beating O'Mara and Mrs. Z just gave him.

[cboldt]

-- prosecutors might argue against bond by citing concerns over Zimmerman's safety, and a lack of resources to put him under round-the-clock security. --

That's risible. The prosecutors have no problem using the resources to keep him incarcerated; and he's probably more at risk in the general population in jail, than he is in public.

[cboldt]

-- Hard to believe Bernie de la Rionda is the best prosecutor Corey's got, given the beating O'Mara and Mrs. Z just gave him. --

Corey blew it when she charged Zimmerman. Now her animus is being revealed.

[narciso]

MessNBC of course,

[Threadkiller]

The ears are off-limits, Alice.

[cboldt]

Can't use his nose either, it's broken.

[William Demot]

ABC has released a photo of Zimmerman's bleeding head taken 3 mins after the shooting. Anyone seen it yet?

[Extraneus]

Unless a person is unconcious you reaally couldn't keep banging someone's head on asidewalk repeatedly. How do you pull the head back up?

First of all, if Zimmerman was punched square in the nose and then knocked down, he'd have been quite dazed for a few seconds. If he raised his head during those few seconds, as if to try to get back up, it could easily have been slammed back down. The pic indicates at least two separate wounds, so that's probably the minimum of what happened to his head.

I don't think it's so hard to imagine how to repeatedly slam a person's head on the ground, since their natural reaction is to lift it back off the ground after each slam. No handles needed. And if he was just laying there, resting his head on the ground, it meant he was either already out or just about to go out, and then a simple collar pull would suffice.

[rse]

On the media inciting riot, I was following a link I recognized as a radical ed prof this morning. Troubling essay of the type I see often. Real problems with misattributed causes so attempts to problem solve will worsen problems in a desired direction.

Not only trying to reignite OWS but mentions the recent killing of TM as evidence that poor minority youth are not just excluded from Amer dream. The have "become utterly redundant and disposable, waste products of a society that no longer considers them of any value."

That's why the media and holder and bo and sharpton won't let reality get in the way. The myth of trayvon has the ability to empower the desired political coalition. It goes on to call for a "new urgency for a collective politics and social movements capable of both negating the established order and iamgining a new one".

It calls for a "politics that address what a just and fair world looks like".

BO and holder and the professorate and the media think they can leverage TM's "death by homicide" into the socialist revolution that was a fundamental part of his upbringing.

You don't even want to know what I found yesterday that arne is putting in place stealthily. Soviet citizens concerned with ed policies and practices at least recognized what was being done to them. In the late 1970s the outcry made it all the way to the Central Committee. It's not reasonable to be looking where I found it. I was just perusing one of the myriad of insider mailings I get. Very upsetting that there are no longer any real constraints on tyranny.

[DebinNC]

Bernie implied he didn't believe Mrs. Z's claim of death threats/hate mail. He asked smarmily if she'd kept the (mythical) hate mail, and she said, "Yes, I did." Oops!

[Ignatius J Donnelly]

"How do you pull the head back up?"

Rivets on side of neck.

Huh! Huh! Huh!

[Little Billy]

"Now her animus is being revealed."

Even worse, her epidermis is showing.

[cboldt]

-- He asked smarmily if she'd kept the (mythical) hate mail, and she said, "Yes, I did." Oops! --

You have to play hardball against the state. And the public should make it personal against Corey and her cohorts; meaning that the public should allege that Corey and her cohorts are acting with malice, and put them on the defensive.

[narciso]

Well that was what I clued in with that Nunn fellow, who was an assistant Dean back in 2000, during the affirmative action reform
that Jeb had imposed, My late grandfather, a very wise man, noticed how moral and civic
education, were no longer present in the early 80s, and he felt that way about Post
Franco Spain, just a few years later.

[cboldt]

-- Very upsetting that there are no longer any real constraints on tyranny. --

The mob will ask for, and will get, a federal tyranny. We are two generations out, is my guess.

[Pofarmer]

"You don't even want to know what I found yesterday that arne is putting in place stealthily"

Yes, I do.

[AliceH]

"ABC has released a photo.... Anyone seen it yet?"

William Demot: Link at 7:16a above, embed at 8:15a above.

[Pofarmer]

"Bernie implied he didn't believe Mrs. Z's claim of death threats/hate mail. He asked smarmily if she'd kept the (mythical) hate mail, and she said, "Yes, I did." Oops!"

Pwned.

[cboldt]

OK Guardian is running pretty good commentary. LUN