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April 19, 2012

Comments

BlahBlahBlah

"I really believe M. would be alive today if he'd just told Z he was visiting Dad and said he was on his way home and then turned and walked back home."

Exactly.

Or he could have just gone home during the 5 minutes between "he's running" and the confrontation even taking place; that too would have kept Martin alive.

Martin didn't want to be safe though - Martin apparently just wanted to act tough

jimmyk

He jumps on Martin. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Where does that come from? At most I've heard he was standing over Martin when the police arrived.

In any case, if he didn't know whether and how badly Martin was hit, and Martin had just been bashing his head, he's not going to take any chances.

lyle

I have not scene

Your 15 minutes still giving you that frisson, NK?

DebinNC

Martin didn't want to be safe though - Martin apparently just wanted to act tough

...for the listening DeeDee. I think if DeeDee weren't on the line, TM would probably have gone home. I think the two teens were enjoying together a game of hide and seek with GZ...with Trayvon providing a running commentary and DeeDee offering encouragement.

Terry in GA

New to posting, but have really enjoyed your z coverage.

Don't forget, Z passed the voice stress test!! Not that I know how significant that would be, but apparently it was proof positive enough for the lawyers.

Rick Ballard

If we're gonna play "woulda, coulda, shoulda", then let's go back to the dispatcher and change "We don't need you to do that." to "Please remain in your vehicle - an officer is en route."

cboldt

According to LUN, "You got it" is ghetto slang of triumph, meaning that the speaker got in the better licks.


Is it possible that Martin did not know he was mortally wounded, ever? Just passed out from loss of blood to the brain?

Rick Ballard

"Is it possible that Martin did not know he was mortally wounded, ever?"

Absolutely. My bet is that the bullet hit the descending aorta and he bled out internally in less than a minute. He probably didn't go into shock for around 15 seconds - plenty of time to say something dumb.

NK

scene=seen-- I am an appalling typist.
BTW-- it was 15 SECONDS-- but I was very impressionable at the time.

jimmyk

Rick, as far as anyone knows, GZ returned toward his vehicle after the "We don't need you to do that." The "Please remain..." would have to have happened earlier in the call. If I recall correctly, it sounded as if the dispatcher initially didn't know that GZ was following TM, and as soon as she realized he might be, she asked.

But yes, if she had said exactly what you describe, there would have been a better outcome. On the other hand, I'm sure 99% of these incidents don't result in anything but an "OK, have a good evening," so the idea that one misplaced sentence could result in a homicide is not the primary lesson here.

Clarice

Generally speaking all Kennedy men were (are) at least 2 out of 3:horndogs, not too smart, shockingly reckless.

As for the forensic (voice) evidence--the WaPo has just run a big series on false test results by the FBI--much better qualified than the three bozos and their voice test--and how the DoJ sat on this news withut telling the courts or defendants.

You can bet from now on defense counsel will more thoroughly grill "experts" and these three will never get before a jury.

AliceH

Random correlations.

RickB@06:29: "15 seconds - plenty of time to say something dumb."

NK@06:30: "it was 15 SECONDS-- but I was very impressionable at the time."

Barbara

Where does that come from? At most I've heard he was standing over Martin when the police arrived.

"According to the source, Zimmerman told police he didn’t realize that Martin was seriously injured, and that he lunged to get on top of him after the teenager fell to the ground."
NK

AliceH thanks for the heads-up -- I know in my case, 15 seconds is more than enough time to say something dumb.

Frau Errinerung

...won't remember how the Tawana Brawley case went down?

Something that smelly is seared, seared in my memory, Clarice, and the Racemeister is still out spreading Bandini.

daddy

Ted Stevens Update:

Joe Bottini, one of the corrupt prosecutors in the Ted Steven's case, is offering a novel defense of his personal screw-ups in that case.

Bottini is now saying that one of the reasons why he is innocent of intentionally withholding exculpatory evidence from Stevens is because Ted Stevens asked for a speedy trial. By asking for a speedy trial things got hectic for the Prosecutorial team, so hectic in fact that there was poor supervision and nobody was really in charge.

As a result of that chaos, the Prosecutors made mistakes that shouldn't have been made, but they shouldn't be to blame because the fault doesn't lie with the corrupt Prosecutors, it lies with---wait for it---drumroll please---Ted Stevens, because Stevens asked for a speedy trial. Link.

I sure am glad we Taxpayers are still paying Bottini's Lawyer Bills, aren't you?

jimmyk

Barbara,
Note to self: Reread original post before commenting.

Nonetheless, it seems perfectly normal that when you've been in a fight to the death, your first instinct would be to subdue the guy who's been pounding your head. That doesn't get a "hmmmmmm" from me.

Barbara

Rick,

We'd have to listen to the call and the sequence of statements to know for certain. From what I've read, Zimmerman was somewhat angry because he believed that Martin was going to get away. He said that he would follow Martin and the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that." While not an order, it was effectively a statement that the responding officers did NOT need Zimmerman's assistance (i.e., "We don't need your help.") Zimmerman, however, was determined to get involved.

cboldt

-- He probably didn't go into shock for around 15 seconds - plenty of time to say something dumb. --


My first inclination was to figure whatever he said was in the nature of admitting defeat; but it may have been the opposite. If he doesn't know or feel like he's in serious trouble - and I think that's a possibility in the first moments after being stung, the body masks pain - then he might be mouthing off.


I think that one needs to hear the cadence and emphasis to make clear sense of the speaker's meaning. Better still to know their habits of usage.

narciso

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the real war on women, children , 'and other living things'
continues apace;


http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/04/19/hillary-clinton-to-arabs-pay-no-attention-when-we-pander-to-zionist-lobbies/#comments

BlahBlahBlah

"According to the source, Zimmerman told police he didn’t realize that Martin was seriously injured, and that he lunged to get on top of him after the teenager fell to the ground."

Makes sense to me...

~ Zimmerman manages to grab gun which is wedged between the two - gun goes off.
~ Martin seemingly rolls off of him at this time, saying "you got it"

If I'm in the situation, I am thinking to myself, "is he preparing to pull a gun/weapon of his own?" and I jump on him while I have the chance. In my mind, in that situation, "you got it" would likely register to me as some type of "you wanna play it that way" type threat.


Besides, do we even know if Zimmerman had a good hold of the gun at any given moment?

If Zimmerman didnt have a good hold of it after it went off, Zimmerman may not have even known where the gun was - ie, it could have been under the falling Martin, which would have given me even more reason to believe he was smothering the gun to get it and use it on me.

If Martin did have a gun/weapon of some kind, getting up and getting away seems too much time and smothering Martin is my logical choice.

Rick Ballard

jimmyk,

The only lessons I've drawn from this are:

1. There is one hell of a lot of law regarding self-defense which I knew absolutely nothing about.

2. Hiring an attorney to be present when giving a statement to investigators is very cheap insurance. (All JOMer attorneys nod sagely in agreement.)

3. The President showed his usual knack for stepping in it when he adopted NO_LIMIT Grillntats without doing due diligence.

Otherwise, it was a run of the mill misadventure of no large consequence beyond those directly involved.

Sara

Maybe it is just me, but I do not have the sense that GZ "pulled" his gun and pointed it anywhere. I think it was in his wasteband and he was struggling to get it loose when it was fired, either on purpose or accidentally. What surprises me is that GZ didn't shoot himself in the balls.

Extraneus

horndogs

If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

(I know cboldt wants to say something dirty, but surely he has more class than to say that.)

not too smart, shockingly reckless

Now that's just wrong. How about this, though?

Man Watches Porn & Discovers His Wife is an Adult Star

"[My wife] first denied it and accused me of being insane before I faced her with the films ... she then confessed to be still in love with her boyfriend, saying he is as young as her and that I am an old man."
Now that's just cold.
Jane

I'm very happy to hear John John was not a pig, cause I always liked him. Of course the fact that he was gorgeous didn't hurt, but I always felt sorry for the ridicule he took for having to take the bar 3 times. I passed it in my first but it could have been luck, and I never once thought passing the bar had anything to do with being a good lawyer.

My guess is had he lived he'd be running for president some time soon, and I'd be pretty unhappy about it.

Clarice

narciso, what better evidence that Hillary! is not planning a further poltical career?

BlahBlahBlah

"He said that he would follow Martin and the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that." While not an order, it was effectively a statement that the responding officers did NOT need Zimmerman's assistance (i.e., "We don't need your help.") Zimmerman, however, was determined to get involved."

And there is no evidence he ever really moved too far from right where he was when he said "ok" to said question, is there?


No matter what he did prior though, Zimmerman was in rough line of sight to his Truck and Pathway when the "confrontation" occurred.

So ask yourself; which one more likely took place:
~ Zimmerman was waiting for the police in a place where he could monitor both his truck and the walkway between houses
- or -
~ Martin "ran" to a location where he was in rough sight of the Truck?

daddy

OT on the Settled Science of Polar Bears:

In 2010 we learned that Polar Bears had just learned to piggy back their young because of Global Warming, until talking with Native Elders we found they had been doing it for centuries.

Then in 2011 we learned that Polar Bears couldn't swim long distances, until we unexpectedly discovered one swimming 426 miles straight without stopping because of Global Warming, but Tribal Elders thought they'd seen the bears swimming long distances before.

In 2012 we knew that Polar Bears only come on land and attack houses and people because they are desperate due to Ice Melt from man made Global Warming, except that suddenly, in a winter of humongous Ice floes, Polar Bears vandalize St Lawrence and other islands, that are completely clobbered with Ice.

Today we find that Polar Bears are not descended from English Brown Bears from 150,000 years ago as we all knew yesterday, they are now supposed to have come from a common ancestor some 600,000 years ago.

Other than that tho', the Science is Settled.

narciso

Well I think those are very reasonable responses, to such a confused situation, that
happened so fast, in the rain,

NK

Jane-- John Jr., gorgeous yes, 'good lawyer' not so much.

narciso

Don't tell Andrea Peyser, Clarice, she thought
that debut at the Club Havana, was a sign,

FC

Nugent: Secret Service satisfied comments did not threaten Obama

jimmyk

Otherwise, it was a run of the mill misadventure of no large consequence beyond those directly involved.

Should'a been, anyway.

Agreed with your three lessons. The only thing about #2 is that if TV shows are any guide, the police get very unhappy if you "lawyer up," and are more inclined to presume guilt and arrest you.

A story about my closest brush with the law: I was driving in NYC and there was a checkpoint, with the police stopping everyone and asking them if they'd had anything to drink. Now I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd said "I need to speak with my lawyer." As it was, because I'd had one glass of wine an hour earlier with dinner, I told the truth, they gave me a breathalyzer, which of course I passed, and they sent me on my way.

The point is, I'm not sure that the advice of "Never talk to the police" is really practical.

jimmyk

Zimmerman, however, was determined to get involved.

Objection: Speculative, assumes facts not in evidence.

narciso

I'm wary of trusting Chalabi, because of some attacks he had made on Chalabi in the past,
but as with the Reuters account corroborated by Rodriguez, the accounts seem to match.

narciso

Sorry I meant Rostom, plus that recent Daily
Basilisk column, where the success of Chapo
Guzman was wait for it, the informant networks
that had taken out his competition,

daddy

"I always felt sorry for the ridicule he took for having to take the bar 3 times."

It took Lisa Murkowski 4 times to pass the Bar. John John must have been a genius.

Kayroooooooooo!...

Kayroooooooooo!...

Kayrooooo?...

Kayroo?

narciso

Daddy, that story on Bottini, reminded me of this, why would they take a chance,considering
his record;


http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/2011-11-19/area-woman-tied-to-alaska-militia-indicted-on-gun-charge

Extraneus

Promoting a message of calm and restraint might even be a better way to honor Trayvon's memory.

Imagine how this whole thing could have been played in a way to more positively influence young people?

daddy

Nice point on Government waste and Silver spoons in one's mouth tonight on Lou Dobbs.

Dobbs started talking about Obama's Silver spoons comment, and tied it in with the GSA, the Secret Service, Solyndra, and Leon Panetta's recent comments on his west coast travel costs.

Lou went up to the chalkboard and wrote out :

122 Fundraisers
94 Golf Outings
17 Vacations
27 Panetta trips to the West Coast in the last few months

Then he underlined it and said it all added up to "CONTEXT",

and commented again on the GSA and the rest of the Govt waste that comes as a result of this Presidents lack of leadership in giving a damn about Taxpayer dollars.

Nice job Lou Dobbs.

daddy

I've seen bits and pieces of that case, Narciso. Thanks for the link as I'm playing catch-up. Off with the dogs now. Later.

Matt

"Okay you got it." is a really odd thing to say right after you've been shot.

If "it" refers to the gun over which the two had been struggling, and Martin himself did not yet realize he'd been shot, it makes sense.

Rick Ballard

"According to the source, Zimmerman told police that Martin’s last words after the shooting were, “Okay, you got it.” He said the phrase twice, then turned and fell face-down on the ground."

That's actually a bit worse than my speculation. Martin must have risen all the way to his feet. My conjecture regarding a second eyewitness with a different viewpoint remains. (The inference concerning the second eyewitness is derived from a male voice in the background on the 911 call containing the hollering and the sound of the shot.)

BlahBlahBlah

--"Promoting a message of calm and restraint might even be a better way to honor Trayvon's memory."

----"Imagine how this whole thing could have been played in a way to more positively influence young people?"


Yeah, but you have to think about the victim too. So one must ask, how would Martin want people to honor his memory?


...oh yeah;
"Plzz shoot da #mf dat lied 2 u!"

Matt

Why would it be unusual for Martin to have risen to his feet after being shot? I shot a moose once and it ran a quarter mile after being shot.

Extraneus

If "it" refers to the gun over which the two had been struggling

That makes sense if there actually was a struggle for the gun, even if he realizes he was shot.

Matt B

lion tooth: "As has been reported, Zimmerman told police officials that he lost sight of Martin and went around a townhouse to see where he was."

Did this happen after the dispatcher told Zimmerman we don't need you to do that ?

At that point does the act of pursuing Martin mean Zimmerman acted as a policeman?

The Florida Concealed Carry law:
"3. The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense. Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman or a "good samaritan.""

At no point does the act of pursuing Martin means Zimmerman's acted as a policeman. It is not illegal to follow somebody (unless you start harassing them).

The link and quote are only guidelines from the state- they do not have the force of law, because nothing like that exists in the statutes.

Extraneus

No talking ... er ... drinking dirty in Alabama.

Alabama bans beer brand over dirty name on label

You can buy Fat Bastard wine in Alabama, but you'll have to go elsewhere for Dirty Bastard beer.
Frau Errinerung

"Don't tell Andrea Peyser, Clarice, she thought that debut at the Club Havana, was a sign..."

A sign of what? Now there's an opening for speculation. It's hard to forget the NYPost's "Swillary" headline and photos.

Ignatz

--The point is, I'm not sure that the advice of "Never talk to the police" is really practical.--

I agree. I've probably had the cops called on me a half dozen times by my dear idiot brother and I have avoided a lot of needless hassle merely by pointing out what a crock of s*** every claim has been.
Now if I was ever in a situation where I might actually be in some jeopardy, like say having just shot a dude, I think I'd clam up.

Danube of Thought

Re "apprehend": for one sense of the word, think "apprehensive."

Ignatz

As far as Martin or Zimmermen not knowing the extent of Martin's injuries, Reagan came within an inch of having that 22 slug enter his heart and he didn't even know he'd been shot for some time.
Admittedly a 22 round has about 1/3 the mass of a 9mm but it has similar velocity and it wasn't that he didn't know how serious the wound was, he didn't even know he had a bullet in him.

narciso

Rollins, Conway, Sheinkopf, the braintrust.
(goggles sold separately)


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/run_with_it_hillary_l7P0j3tX505tsvdbgdwioL

Jim,MtnViewCA,USA

Dog story leaking out....
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/john-mccain-jokes-president-obama-eating-son-dog-192528354.html

narciso

Meawhile, there is this, which doesn't even attempt to tackle the facts:


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/12/what-got-george-zimmerman-charged-with-second-degree-murder.html

jimmyk

Why would it be unusual for Martin to have risen to his feet after being shot?

Also: Leaving aside that the writer is paraphrasing the source, who himself is not an eyewitness, but presumably only recalling what GZ said, the statement "He said the phrase twice, then turned and fell face-down on the ground," does not imply that Martin stood up. He could have fallen from a kneeling position, a seated position, or even from lying on his side.

DebinNC

If I had a dog...

narciso

Are they really, this incompetent, yes they can;


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9215451/Qatada-free-in-days-after-May-got-the-date-wrong.html

BlahBlahBlah

"He could have fallen from a kneeling position, a seated position, or even from lying on his side."

Or from laying across Zimmerman even.

"Turned" is merely a move from facing say north to east/west, and "fell" could merely mean "head was up, now its down". If he meant "then spun to the side and hugged the ground" it could be saying the exact same thing seamlessly

The statement just doesn't give any indication of initial positioning

Jane

NK,

I always heard he was a fairly decent DA that ask for nothing extra which I appreciated.

Perhaps you have personal knowledge to the contrary, altho it is hard to judge someone on their first year out being a DA.

Pofarmer

"Trayvon was trying to "smother" GZ's cries for help, not stop his breathing imo but GZ's nose may have been out of commission at that point and Trayvon's hand over his mouth felt to GZ like he was being smothered."

That is kind of a distinction without a difference.

Kermit T. Frog

Jumping ahead of the comments...

Is there any evidence that Martin was a guest there (in the subdivision) that night, or that he just knew somebody who lived there?

His family's statements have been all over the place...

BlahBlahBlah

Kermit T. Frog,

His dad's girlfriend lived down at the other end of the walkway from where the altercation took place. Martin apparently stayed there sometimes.

narciso

Problems understanding metaphor, I think;


http://wizbangblog.com/2012/04/19/cnn-columnist-ted-nugent-should-be-arrested/

narciso

No we already know what's in it;

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-amend-first-amendment

Danube of Thought

I shot a lion through the spine with a .375 H&H Magnum, and he ran 200 yards before dropping deader than a smelt.

Danube of Thought

I have never represented a person under arrest and faced with the prospect of police questioning.

I have often thought that if I were arrested, knew I was innocent, and wanted to help the police in the short (and long) term, I would say the following: "I want to tell you guys what happened. I will tell you what I saw, felt, heard, smelled and did from beginning to end. You can interrupt me with any questions you have as we go along, but I won't answer any question more than once. And when I get to the end, I am done, and won't talk further."

I have never run that fantasy past any of my criminal defense attorney friends, but I am sure going to.

Clarice

Jane, I recall reading that he handled only really minor cases.

Jane

Someone has to do it Clarice. People run for office on a lot less.

Jack is Back!

narciso,

She is beneath contempt. Why do we as a country tolerate her form of veneral dis ease?

Eric in Boise

DoT, is your 9:09 from Hemingway?

If is isn't, it ought to be.

Clarice

True, Jane. The Congress is full of "lawyers" who barely practiced law---and it shows. Better to have farmers who know about farming and loggers who know about logging and teachers who know about teaching, etc etc etc.

Kermit T. Frog

"His dad's girlfriend lived down at the other end of the walkway from where the altercation took place. Martin apparently stayed there sometimes."

Yup, That is clear.

Let me clarify - was he a guest there THAT night?

Strawman Cometh

Pelosi:
We have a clear agenda in this regard: Disclose, reform the system reducing the roll of money in campaigns.

Indeed, it is a very large roll. Is it spelled that way in the transcript? One way to reduce the role, and the roll, would be a law prohibiting gov't contractors from donating to Congressional and Presidential campaigns. This has the advantage of being Constitutional.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

The minute someone says to me "...you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law. You also have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you..." I tell them I want an attorney.

It happened to me once many years ago. I was asked to testify in a Special Prosecutor's inquiry about organized crime's role in Miami Airport maintenance contracts. I appeared by agreement with permission from my law firm and the client. I thought it was going to be an informal interview with the the SP. At the appointed hour I was escorted into an imposing office. The SP was seated behind a desk with the Florida State Flag and the American Flag behind him. I was ushered into a seat across from him. I immediately noticed a court reporter and several uniformed law enforcement types in the room.

Then I was handed a piece of paper containing a Miranda Warning and a signature block with my name typed below it. When I asked what it was for, the SP told me (like the old Jack Webb line) "it's just routine".

I handed it back to him unsigned, told him I had been a prosecutor for four years and wasn't going to say anything more under the circumstances, and walked out of the room.

Later my firm hired a very prominent Miami CD Attorney to represent me. Through him, I gave an unsworn statement about the circumstances of my involvement with the matter. That was the end of it.

I have (before and since) always advised clients to say no more if they hear a Miranda Warning directed at them.

Strawman Cometh

I shot a squirrel out of a tree with a broad-head (I was hunting deer) arrow. The arrow went through the chest, taking out the lungs and heart, the squirrel ran another 15 ft. up the tree before it dropped.

Captain Hate

She is beneath contempt. Why do we as a country tolerate her form of veneral dis ease?

Eh, think of the damage she's done to the commiecrats. She's running laps around Rove as far as being an architect of complete carnage. Although she's needed some help from the Indonesian and the ambulatory lint-trap from Nevada. The 3 Stooges of the donk apocalypse.

Jim Ryan

My grandfather used to serve me smelt. I miss it. But I don't know how to prepare them so I don't eat them. What do you do, put them on a cookie sheet, salt them, and stick them in the oven?

fdcol63

There should be a legal limit on the number of Botox injections a Congress member can receive. LOL

Clarice

Jim, my mom use to bread and deep dry them.

narciso

I got that CNS piece from here;

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=39885

there isn't any doubt what they intend, the events involving ALEC this week, made that clear.

Danube of Thought

Well, I sure as hell defer to your expertise and judgment on that occasion, JR, and hope I'd have had the good sense to do the same.

My fantasy involves some violent crime where I think I can expedite a resolution, but don't want to place myself at risk of being hounded by morons.

Jim Ryan

Thanks, Clarice. I imagine cleaning the dryer out afterwards was a bit of a chore, though, eh? :o)

Porchlight

I think deep frying, then salt and a squeeze of lemon is a good way to go with smelt, Jim Ryan.

Yum.

Jim Ryan

Mmm.

Clarice

Heh--I guess it's bedtime again.

MarkO

"My fantasy involves some violent crime where I think I can expedite a resolution, but don't want to place myself at risk of being hounded by morons."

Keep it a fantasy, like the others. If it happens, shut up and call me.

Threadkiller

I shot the head off a hummingbird with a Titleist 3 on a short par 3.

The body dropped like a B-24 missing a wing.

First and last time I had both a bogey and a birdie on the same hole.

MarkO

Once I shot an eagle, but I was arrested.

Captain Hate

there isn't any doubt what they intend, the events involving ALEC this week, made that clear.

The ALEC thing was extremely disturbing but this prancing around by Tommy D'alessandro's idiot daughter is just more of her embarrassing lunacy. Amending the Constitution takes a lot more than that ignorant witch seems to realize so I wouldn't be holding my breath on them putting it into the shredder yet. The comments at proteinwisdom were outstanding; they treat her with the respect she deserves.

Danube of Thought

Can't we hear something from the buubmeister?

Captain Hate

DoT, I was gonna ask if the trolls have become dispirited or if they're resting in coffins filled with their native night soil.

xbradtc

Amending the Constitution takes a lot more than that ignorant witch seems to realize

She's a silly bint, but not that silly. She knows it has no hope of passing, but she's just making mouth noises to the prog community to show how much she "cares" about a pet issue of the left.

Danube of Thought

When Saint Denis was beheaded in AD 272, he picked up his severed head and carried it to the summit of Montmartre, with angels serenading him all the way (you can look it up).

So top that one.

Sara

TK: Have you seen this?

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-officially-ineligible

I laughed at Red Eye last night when they said we now have Truthers, Birthers, and Barkers.

windansea

Martin is on the ground - prone. Zimmerman still in great fear doesn't retreat to his vehicle. He jumps on Martin. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Posted by: Barbara | April 19, 2012 at 05:45 PM

mo offense Barbara, but does your life experience include these types of physical interactions? I'm thinking no because there are so many ways these type of things can go

BlahBlahBlah

Kermit,

Not sure, I have seen it so many times I take it as truth. We know the NBA All-Star game was to be on at 7:30. This whole thing was taking place 7:10-7:15, so timing lines up with the game. Brandi and his Dad went out, but left their 13 year old son at the house. Makes sense they might want some type of babysitter figure for him.


Here is a site with video from the day after where both Martin's dad and Brandi talk about him being there.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/14/trayvon-martin-vs-george-zimmerman-must-watch-videos-crime-scene-and-fight-club/

BlahBlahBlah

To everyone else,

Interesting video on that site I linked above also has what they claim to be Trayvon Martin taking part in a "Fight Club" video.

Not sure its real; but for those looking for video of him, this might be it!

Threadkiller

Sara, I did not see that. It links to one I did read.

http://www.teapartytribune.com/2012/04/13/obama-lawyer-admits-forgery-but-disregards-image-as-indication-of-obamas-ineligibility-damage-control/

" Taking an audacious and shocking angle against the constitutional eligibility mandate, Obama’s lawyer, Alexandra Hill, admitted that the image of Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and made the absurd claim that, therefore, it cannot be used as evidence to confirm his lack of natural born citizenship status. Therefore, she argued, it is “irrelevant to his placement on the ballot”.

Hill went on to contort reasoning by implying that Obama needs only invoke his political popularity, not legal qualifications, in order to be a candidate.

At the hearing, attorney for the plaintiffs, Mario Apuzzo, correctly argued that Obama, under the Constitution, has to be a “natural born Citizen” and that he has not met his burden of showing that he is eligible to be on the New Jersey primary ballot by showing that he is indeed a “natural born Citizen.” He argued that Obama has shown no authenticate evidence to the New Jersey Secretary of State demonstrating who he is and that he was born in the United States. Apuzzo also argued that as a matter of law, Obama is not a “natural born Citizen” because he was born to a father who was not a U.S. citizen.

As Obama’s legal argument becomes more contorted, he is being forced to avoid an ever shrinking legal space, and an increasing weight, of his failure to meet constitutional eligibility requirements."

What a mess.

Barbara
I'm thinking no because there are so many ways these type of things can go

You're right, windansea. That's why Zimmerman should have let the police handle the situation. They're trained to do so, but even with that training things can go sideways quickly. Zimmerman's adrenaline was probably off the charts after he shot Martin. Still, he had his weapon, and Martin was down. It would have been prudent for him to back away. But according to the story above, he didn't.

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Wilson/Plame