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April 16, 2012

Comments

Clarice

"If the jury is too dumb"--or in this case, the judge.

Actually, since it is before the judge only, she may well give the defense more leeway on this point.

fdcol63

All of these liberals are Alinskyites, following his Rules for Radicals, especially Rule #12:

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

cboldt

-- One point I haven't heard anyone make: if Zimmerman was really acting in good faith, part of his motivation was to keep someone from breaking into Mr. Martin's girlfriend's townhouse. --


I've seen a few remarks of that nature, maybe elsewhere. But it is not emphasized as a lead in to rebut the contention that Zimmerman's actions of "profiling" and so forth were the result of depraved mind.

Danube of Thought

The answer to that lies in their actions - no arrest.

I don't think so. The answer to that lies in what they saw and heard.

In other words, they have already rendered their opinion on the ultimate issue.

I think that opinion can be kept out as irrelevant. I think defense might be able to get away with something like, "Officer Jones, do you typically make a recommendation concerning whether a subject should be charged? And did you recommend that Mr. Zimmerman be charged?"

I'm not really sure that even that comes in. In other words, the judge is going to go to great lengths to keep out opinion testimony as to probable cause.

Danube of Thought

He said the robbery was documented in a 911 call on Feb. 2, three days before Trayvon was shot and killed.

Trayvon was shot and killed on February 26.

cboldt

-- Wouldn't media outlets have petitioned to get this call released in hope of hearing the longed for GZ racial slurs? --


One of the media outlets did review all of Zimmerman's interaction with SPD. In no call did Zimmerman volunteer race.


In police calls, Zimmerman mentioned race only when asked - NBC - April 5

Of the seven calls placed by George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, there were five where he reported suspicious-looking young men in the area -- but he never mentioned the men's race without first being asked. NBC's Michael Isikoff reports.

Chubby

((Gosh, do you suppose KK sent in reinforcements after she consistently beclowned herself? Or are we just a magnet for crazy NY women))

after I read bob's bio, the first thing I thought was that kk and bob are prolly bff

Clarice

OT: But this is distressing and more people should know of this latest attempted Obama regulatory overreach
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50880

Well, 2d latest :

Obama to Announce Oil Pricing Crackdown
President Obama to announce plan aimed at increasing oversight of oil markets and cracking down on price manipulation. (FoxNews)

rse

Barbara-

This is not a legal blog but it certainly has a tremendous number of very experienced lawyers from a variety of backgrounds who post here regularly and have for years.

Why do you think it's appropriate to lecture us about the law and when it is appropriate for a case to be prosecuted? What's the largest legal bill you have ever had to pay? Lots of us have first hand experience of the crippling costs of taking a case to trial. That does become relevant when the burden of proof and the evidence available indicate that it's unreasonable for a reasonable jury to not have reasonable doubt in this case. I don't think it makes it over the civil preponderance of the evidence hurdle. I know it doesn't make it over beyond a reasonable doubt.

Cannot prevail at trial unless the jury disregards facts and law should prevent cases from being prosecuted after investigation. It certainly should stop murder 2.

Corey bowed into a lynchmob mentality. If lots of people are upset it should go to trial is not the relevant standard. Especially when the upset has been deliberately and fraudulently created with just such a goal in mind.

Clarice

Maybe he can transfer some folks from GSA, TSA or the DoJ crack criminal team to handle these new areas.

cboldt

-- The answer to that lies in what they saw and heard. --


I agree with that. You said that they couldn't give an opinion about whether or not they had probable cause to arrest. My point is they already rendered that opinion. The questioning doesn't go to whether or not Zimmerman should be charged, it goes to whether or not there was probable cause to hold him in detention.


I do agree that asking them to describe their reasoning steps away from giving factual testimony. But asking if they had probable cause to arrest is already answered - they did not arrest.

JeffC

for all you keyboard lawyers ...

Zimmerman was arrested but later released becasue they couldn't charge him ...

he passed a voice stress test that night at the police station ...

we don't need to speculate about Zimmermans injuries, the police said he was injured ... in a court of law that is known as evidence ...

anyone who has seen a recent photo of Martin who still thinks he weighed 150 pounds is blind ... there is a good chance he outweight Zimmerman ...

narciso

The problem is the template, demands that we put a 'square peg into a round hole,' and unless you 'sand' the former away that doesn't happen,

Chubby

((You're evil White folks now))

interesting racial statistics about the U.S. Hispanic population ca. 2010

white 53%
mestizo 36.7%
two more more races 6%
black 2.5%
asian .4%
pacific islander .1%

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans#Race

Clarice

Watching B'OB,KK, Duda, Sylvia and Bubu argue is like watching someone trimming the edges off jigsaw puzzle pieces and claiming they solved the puzzle.

cboldt

-- Zimmerman was arrested but later released becasue they couldn't charge him ... --


He was held for questioning. In the universe of police investigation, sometimes non-participating eyewitnesses are held for questioning too, and they aren't arrested either.


After gathering evidence testimony from eyewitnesses (sans DeeDee), from the suspect (Zimmerman), and review of forensic evidence, the police concluded, maybe with advice from Wolfinger's office, that the evidence was insufficient to support a probable cause suspicion that Zimmerman had NOT acted in self defense.


Corey can come in and show that the SPD overlooked incriminating evidence, or read it wrong, but if she has an argument of that nature, she's showed no sign of it. IIRC, she's publicly approved of the initial investigation.

Ignatius J Donnelly

To the Lawyers;
When does coaching become downright puttin' words in somebody's mouth?

For example, a young lass star witness;
her story does not jibe with the timeline
which is confirmed by phone records.
the story evolved over time.
If she has been coerced to perjor herself
could there be repercussions for the "coaches"?

fdcol63

" .. Watching B'OB,KK, Duda, Sylvia and Bubu argue is like watching ..." dung worms slithering on a pile of turds.

cboldt

O'Mara is arguing that witness identifying information should be kept sealed. That is going to anger the press.

Chubby

((just to protect a "white" (Hispanic) stranger who ))

Z was not a stranger to the SPD. He had led relentless protests against it on another matter, concerning the beating death of a black homeless man.

cboldt

-- If she has been coerced to perjor herself could there be repercussions for the "coaches"? --


Yes. Suborning perjury.

Chubby

((O'Mara is arguing that witness identifying information should be kept sealed. That is going to anger the press))

I'm quite sure that is about protecting "John"

cboldt

-- Z was not a stranger to the SPD. He had led relentless protests against it on another matter, concerning the beating death of a black homeless man. --


And still managed to maintain a respectful relationship with SPD as it performs is police function.

Ignatz

--What's the largest legal bill you have ever had to pay?--

If you want to see a grown man cry ask me that question. :(

narciso

That suggests that the supposed impetus to charge him, was not entirely on the evidence.

Chubby

what I meant, cboldt is that O'Mara must want to protect "John", the witness who has wanted to keep his identity hidden from day 1.

rse

Clarice-there is a comment to your link that the decision not to pass a budget allows much of this to go on without scrutiny. That seems to be true from my tracking. Education is a means primarily as well as the world's 2nd largest economic activity after retail. It also consumes more than it provides now in increases to human capital apart from paper credentials.

This admin's view is public sector+ businesses and institutions like foundations and NGOs actively aligned with public sector as rent seekers and social policy pushers. If this Admin and its fellow believers in other govts like Blair in his terms and Gillard now had their way this would be the economy. But that form simply does not produce enough revenue to pay for itself. So you have a regulated and directed remainder of the economy because most bureaucrats think of the economy as a fixed pie. They either believe or never even consider what effect changing the number and size of pie slices does to the pie.

Small business will be especially targeted in a second term because I've seen it in the ed regulations. They treat the function of small business as providing well paying jobs that create the right kind of government stipulated skills in the employee. That this adds unreimbursed, untransferable costs does not enter the calculation.

With these mindsets and ideologies a 2nd term will be an economic death sentence. That's not hyperbole. That's what I am getting ready to explain.

On that note, I am building a blog to keep track of Common Core's implementation and also to attract foreign readers in countries further along where they do not seem aware of how education is being used to gain less visible control over the economy. Anyone got a rec on Typepad vs Wordpress?

Chubby

((And still managed to maintain a respectful relationship with SPD as it performs is police function))

yes, which is a credit to both Z and the SPD.

I just wanted to correct the incorrect statement that he was a stranger to them. It is also further evidence of Z's character.

fdcol63

This story is really disgusting:

Little-Known DOJ Group Aids Trayvon Protestors

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/04/17/secretive-doj-force-watces-trayvon-protests/

cboldt

-- I'm quite sure that is about protecting "John" --


It's to protect all of them. Well, not Cutcher and her roommate, but all the rest of them. Snitches get stitches (or killed). DeeDee is at risk too.


O'Mara has a good point. The more the witness talks, the greater the probability for the witness to make an inconsistent statement.

Chubby

I wonder if O'Mara had any idea of the of all the implications of the case he was taking on.

DebinNC

As soon as the 13 yr. old witness was quoted saying Trayvon was on top of GZ, the media made him an instant target by releasing his name. His story then changed.

derwill

Clarice,

At this point Trayvon Martin could rise from the dead and corroborate that he was beating Zimmerman's head into the pavement when he was shot, and they still wouldn't believe it. The narrative must be preserved at all costs, otherwise the useful idiots might begin to suspect that they are useful idiots.

If/when the either judge or later the jury finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, it will be because they are racists. In their world, no other explanation will be allowed to be possible.

Chubby

how is DeeDee at risk? people already know who she is don't they? I think John is in far more danger if his identity is exposed, he is the star witness for Z's defense, is he not?

Chubby

I think John would have to go into hiding.

narciso

Yes I saw that the OS twitter feed, the stated purpose doesn't ring true,

Danube of Thought

Anybody think this guy was racially profiled?

Chubby

oh, cboldt, I now understand how DeeDee is at risk.

cboldt

-- how is DeeDee at risk? people already know who she is don't they? I think John is in far more danger if his identity is exposed, he is the star witness for Z's defense, is he not? --


DeeDee is fine as long as she sticks to a story. But as a probably falsifier of detail, she's at risk of being pressured into coming clean - and if she does that, she's going to be ostracized from her community. After they kill her for snitching.


Agreed about John, and perhaps others. There may be eyewitnesses that did not call 911. We have no way of knowing about them, yet.


O'Mara has a very good case for keeping witness names out of the public record. Same tool is used in mob trials, and that's about what this is, except the innocent guy is on trial.

DebinNC

Houston said the conciliators told her they act as the “eyes and ears of the community” and provided guidance about keeping their message about nonviolence clear.

So the WH is shaping the message? Sheesh.

fdcol63

The idea that Obama and Holder are shaping the Trayvon protests is very troubling.

cboldt

-- If/when the either judge or later the jury finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, it will be because they are racists. In their world, no other explanation will be allowed to be possible. --


Exactly right. There are any number of bogeymen available. The SPD, Wolfinger's office. Some argue that Zimmerman deserved a beating for getting out of his car, that beating people (that you deem to be racist) is or should be legal, and fighting back in self defense should be illegal.


The only thing that keeps this whole mess in check is the credible threat of use of violence against aggressors. That's the human condition in a nutshell.

Clarice

It is important in the upcoming election for the left to keep selling to blacks that they are endangered by white wing extremists with guns in order to get them to the polls and pull the D lever.

This is all that simple.

They just jumped too quickly before realizing GZ wasn't a Jew against they continue to stir up hatred without conseuemce but a White Hispanic Catholic. And, therefore, they lit yet another Acme cigar.

Clarice

**consequence*

Captain Hate

The idea that Obama and Holder are shaping the Trayvon protests is very troubling.

I hope you don't consider it surprising. This is just upping the ante one more time.

Enlightened

If you listen to the 911 tape of the witnesses - they were terrified - imagine how petrified thay are now thanks to the race brigade and their NBPP enforcers. And if they happen to be white with any sub-category as in white/hispanic, white/white, white/asian, white/black - it doesn't matter, as long as they are partially "white" they will be targeted. They must be protected at all costs.

Which is so ironic since our white/black POTUS decided to bait from the CIIC position that a black/black young man could have been his son.

Newsflash to the Commander Idiot In Chief - Martin could have been anyone's son - adoption advocates will attest to that.

DublinDave

"....wee Davey Boy,
All three neighbors mention not only bandages but a swollen nose and face and one of them mentions that the injuries on the back of his head were severe enough to show as bumps under the bandages from a distance."

Well wouldn't that contradict the recently obtained EMS report stating that Zimmerman's injuries were "...not serious...?

So,let me get this straight; EMS decide the night of the shooting that George Zimmermans injuries were so minor he didn't need any further medical attention or even bandages(that's pretty frickin monir right),but the next day he's walking around with a cracked open skull that's got a bump large enough you can see it protruding from benath the bandages-from a distance.....he's got a nose that's been somehow mysteriously broken overnight(I say overnight because you can clearly see from the SPD tape there's no blood on his shirt and his nose isn't swollen) that's also
bandaged and the swelling AND is also soooo bad you can see it from a distance.


ROFLMAO.


You add his previous violent ecounters into the mix,pushing cops,beating girlfriends,being fired from a security job because of an uncontrollable temper and you can clearly see why Corey went forward with the prosecution.


DublinDave

sorry...that's pretty frickin minor....

windansea

some speculation at Jeralyn´s blog that O´Mara will not last long on this case, being basically a one man show and currently pro bono

derwill

What surprises me is how utterly and abysmally low the media has sunk in this. When Dan Rather ran with the forged TANG documents, I don't think he expected to get caught. The NYT was careful to keep the story of a possible McCain extra-marital affair to the level of implication and innuendo. But when NBC edited the audio tape to make Z appear racist, and when ABC doctored the video tape to hide Z's injuries--they had to have known they were going to get caught within days if not hours. Yet they did it anyway. They truly have no stopping point any more, if even the certain knowledge that will get caught in the act of making the shit up doesn't stop them.

They aren't even pretending to be journalists any more.

Sue

-- If she has been coerced to perjor herself could there be repercussions for the "coaches"? --

Not if Bill Clinton is involved.

Ignatz

--Well wouldn't that contradict the recently obtained EMS report stating that Zimmerman's injuries were "...not serious...?--

What is the EMS definition of serious?

In any event it's hard to believe a guy as creepy as you hasn't frequently experienced the phenomenon of finding a serious smack from the previous day raising a good sized bump the next day.
Of course you probably do but just aren't honest enough to admit it.

bunkerbuster

Here's a question I hope Zimmerman will get to answer under oath:
So if you had to do it all over again, is there anything, specifically, that you would do differently?

cboldt

-- some speculation at Jeralyn´s blog that O´Mara will not last long on this case, being basically a one man show and currently pro bono --


I speculate that he won't last long because the case will be concluded after the immunity motion is ruled on.


Has O'Mara said he is working pro bono? Or is that speculation too?

windansea

So if you had to do it all over again, is there anything, specifically, that you would do differently?

¨yep, draw my gun the second Trayvon got within 10 feet of me¨

Chubby

oh goody a bubu post. I want DoT to have a good day.

Extraneus

I have yet to detect a basic level of honesty from the people advocating Zimmerman's lynching arrest & trial. (The arc of their moral universe is long, but it bends toward dishonesty.)

In fact, the only honest lib I know posted this on the Flooding the Zone thread:

Actually, the political capital progressives will garner from this, regardless of the outcome, will be priceless priceless.

1.We have a President and a party that have re-solidified their relationship with the African-American community after a turbulent couple of years.

2.The "Stand your ground" law is on it's way to being repealed in Florida..........what?I felt my life was threatened by that law.I had to act.

3.African-American anger is being re-fueled with all sorts of civil rights goodies coming down the line-good luck with repealing Afirmative action now,righties.

4.Tighter gun control laws(psssst.when we say "control" we really mean don't mean "control"....one step at a time).

Whatever the outcome, Democrats just got themselves a bunch of legislative rewards.

Posted by: DublinDave | April 04, 2012 at 01:39 PM

windansea

cboldt | April 17, 2012 at 12:33 PM

don´t know, that´s why I repeated the speculation

Thomas Collins

Perhaps, bunkerbuster, Zimmerman would be less likely to check out the location of strangers, with the forseeable result that crimes on all residents in the complex, of whatever skin hue, will increase. In fact, to the extent this whole affair has an effect on people's behavior, it would be that law abiding, committed citizens such as Zimmerman would be less likely to volunteer for neighborhood watch duty. Thus, the criminal element's abiliy to break into homes and steal possessions of the law abiding citizens, and to commit rape and murder, will increase.

Meanwhile, the bunkerbusters of the world will be continuing their tut tutting about social justice and wingnuts.

derwill

When I was younger I competed in cross-country three-day eventing (equestrian competitions that involve taking 1500 lb horses over six foot high jumps). A woman I knew came off going over a jump during one of the events and hit her head. She showed no bumps or gashes and was examined by the medical staff on the course and they found nothing wrong with her. Three days later she collapsed, was rushed to the hospital, and they found bleeding on her brain. She nearly died.

Are you so woefully ignorant, DuDa, that you don't know that even head injuries that appear minor at first can turn out to be life-threatening? Is there some minimum number of blows to the head that must occur before one is allowed to react in self-defense? What if you survive the first blow with only a tiny gash, but the second one kills you?

bunkerbuster

TC: The evidence is that Zimmerman's, um, "vigilance" just wasn't working, since there were several burglaries on his "watch." But I am sure you won't allow any facts to get in the way of your narrative...

bunkerbuster

Derwood: Do you suppose Zim "nearly died" from his head injuries? If so, don't you think he'd have checked himself into a hospital at some point?

Danube of Thought

"EMS decide the night of the shooting that George Zimmermans injuries were so minor he didn't need any further medical attention"

False statement. The EMT's made no such decision. Zimmerman declined to be taken to the hospital.

In any event, nder the law the self-defeense claim can stand even in the absence of any injury at all (see, e.g., the Wyche case). The significance of Zimmerman's injuries is that they corroborate two particulars of his account: (a) he was punhed in the face, and (b) Martin was bashing his head against the pavement. One must be willfully stupid not to understand this point.

Thomas Collins

So the fact that neighborhood watch groups don't reduce crime to zero is evidence that they are worthless, bunkerbuster?

Unlike you, bunkerbuster, I have no narrative. I just want to uncover the facts, without fear or favor to any group. You might want to try it sometime. You might also want to rethink the post-modern drivel about narrative and historicism you so obviously have imbibed.

Danube of Thought

"So if you had to do it all over again, is there anything, specifically, that you would do differently?"

Objectionable on two grounds: relevance; calls for speculation.

(The bubumeister needs a paralegal to help him with his trial preparation.)

For my part, I would like to hear Trayvon Martin answer that question. I think I know the answer.

Ignatius J Donnelly

Does anyone remember the Robert Durst case?
He was aquitted a claim of self defense.
Look it up and wonder.

DublinDave

"In fact, the only honest lib I know posted this on the Flooding the Zone thread"

Seeking justice for a murder and being aware of the political fallout are not mutually exclusive.

Republican's used the political capital from september 11th to invade and conquer a foreign country.

They got the full backing and support of their base.

As i've said before,whatever political gains we get from this will be used to make the world a better and safer place...tighter gun controls etc.

It's not like we're looking for a tax break to buy this years Mazeratti.


DebinNC

Natasha Richardson died from a head injury from a skiing accident. The arriving ambulance was sent away since she seemed okay initially. She was hospitalized 7 hrs. later and died soon after.

Danube of Thought

"The evidence is that Zimmerman's, um, 'vigilance' just wasn't working, since there were several burglaries on his 'watch."'"

False. No one knows how many additional burglaries would have occurred in the absence of the neighborhood watch.

derwill

Way to miss the point by a mile, bubu. Read it over one more time, and if you still can't wrap your mind around it, go find a second grader and ask him to explain it to you.

Thomas Collins

Well, I can think of one thing Zimmerman might well do differently now. He won't be tutoring black schoolchildren anymore. If as should be the case he gets out of jail, he may in effect have to spend the next several years of his life in hiding. The progs have managed to take a committed citizen and turn him into a hunted man.

bgates

The evidence is that Zimmerman's, um, "vigilance" just wasn't working, since there were several burglaries on his "watch."

There haven't been any since he shot that guy.

Danube of Thought

"Do you suppose Zim 'nearly died' from his head injuries?"

No way to know--one more blow might have been sufficient to kill him.

"If so, don't you think he'd have checked himself into a hospital at some point?"

No, since he never received that additional blow.

Captain Hate

derwill, please don't ask it to find a second grader.

Ignatius J Donnelly

As soon as the 13 yr. old witness was quoted saying Trayvon was on top of GZ, the media made him an instant target by releasing his name. His story then changed.
Blame his Mother. She's the one who started that. She seems like she's worried for him but he says his schoolmates don't watch the news so thet don't know much aboout the case.
Mom has been on national TV Austin has been in the paper and at one point had a video on you tube where he described what he saw.
Mom also likes to wear her tight bike shorts when the papers take photos her walking the dog. She likes the attention but she is worried about her son.

Ben Franklin

Everyone, even the omniscient cboldt, should wait until the Coroners Report comes out.

Anyone want to lay odds that TM's chest wound was an exit?

Thomas Collins
"It's not like we're looking for a tax break to buy this years Mazeratti."

So, DublinDave, are you asserting that progs don't take advantage of tax breaks or maneuver to lower their taxes? Who knew! Folks such as Roxanne Conlin and John Kerry are really right wing wingnuts! Thanks for setting me straight on that, DublinDave.

windansea

As i've said before,whatever political gains we get from this will be used to make the world a better and safer place...tighter gun controls etc.

gosh you are dumb

The highest gun homicide rate is in Washington, D.C., which has had the nation’s strictest gun-control laws for years and bans concealed carry: 20.50 deaths per 100,000 population, five times the general rate. The lowest rate, 1.12, is in Utah, which has such a liberal concealed weapons policy that most American adults can get a permit to carry a gun in Utah without even visiting the state.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/…

derwill

Meanwhile, poor BF is still clinging to the hoary belief that Martin was shot in the back.

Mic check! Mic check!
Down twinkles!

Ben Franklin

"There haven't been any since he shot that guy."

Thank the Gods! It was worth it, then.

Ignatius J Donnelly

I've invented a new drinking game.
Everytime one of you writes the ever so hilarious "White Hispanic", we chug a lug lug. We'll be bombed in no time.

Thomas Collins

Oh, BFF, you're back here. If you don't mind, I'd like to revisit something on which we disagreed awhile ago. Do you still think there is going to be a third party candidate that will get more than 2% of the popular vote. I realize that 1-2% of the popular vote, or even 0.2% of the popular vote, depending on which states it is concentrated, could swing the results of the POTUS election. But I don't think that was your point. I think your point was that a third party candidate would make a strong showing in his her her own right.

Ben Franklin

" clinging to the hoary belief that Martin was shot in the back."

Hmm. Close range 9mm round. No exit wound, eh? You do know there was a chest wound, right? Was it an exit? Dunno. But it could be, couldn't it?

bgates

It was worth it, then.

No, it was worth it because he had a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury when he did it.

Ben Franklin

"I think your point was that a third party candidate would make a strong showing in his her her own right."

Sorry. Don't recall that exchange. DEM or GOP? I was quite ticked at Obama for some time and threatened to support a challenger, but that was just pique.

Enlightened

Bubu sez - "Anyone want to lay odds that TM's chest wound was an exit?"

Jeezzuz can you stop huffing long enough to peep at the real world~

The charging affidavit says he was shot in the chest idiot.

Unless of course you think highly esteemed document that led to the arrest of Zimmerman is incorrect.

Yeah - thought so.

BlahBlahBlah

"Yet you believe the current Reuters story without question. Please."

This may have been stated earlier, I haven't read all the posts yet. But wow, I love the mental knots Dave and Barbra must be tying themselves into in their quest to prove him guilty.

In this instance they give us Zimmerman, who was considered innocent at the station shortly after the incident.

This evil conniving Zimmerman apparently wasnt satisfied with being considered innocent by authorities though. So he went out of his way and bandaged up his non-existent injuries to ensure that the media that wasn't involved or interested at the time might get wind of this fact.

And why would he do this for a non-existent media in the face of police who feel he is innocent? Apparently in an attempt to disprove their conclusions drawn from obsessing over a blurry video he never knew was even recorded, and could have never known would be released some months after the fact.


In reality, it doesnt even matter how severe his injuries are or if he needed bandages or whatever though - he did have injuries, and that's all that is ultimately important.

And yes, the eye witnesses in the neighborhood who saw bandages are proof of that; but they aren't the only proof. The Police Report of the incident saying 'he was bleeding from his nose and back of his head' already provided proof of the injuries - the neighborhood eyewitnesses merely back up what the police already proved

derwill

Who said there wasn't any exit wound? Link, please.

Ben Franklin

"No, it was worth it because he had a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury when he did it."

That wasn't your point. ' Burglaries down; Good!' seemed to be the Mark. But I see the other point.....now.

Danube of Thought

"Anyone want to lay odds that TM's chest wound was an exit?"

If it were, it seems unlikely that the prosecutor would state under oath, more than a month after the event, that Zimmerman shot Martin "in the chest." But hell, keep hope alive.

Thomas Collins

I think you were suggesting a third party challenge that would have a more liberal tone, so that is consistent with your memory.
At the moment, I don't see anyone with a realistic shot at getting over 1% (although Buddy Roemer would win an American Idol type "best entertainment by a politician" TV show over Romney and Obama).

GMAX

Meanwhile, poor BF is still clinging to the hoary belief

He always apparently believes that 15% is more than 28% as near as I could make out from his spurious and erroneous posting, so consider the source.

Ben Franklin

"it seems unlikely" there wouldn't be an exit wound, and medical forensics is not the Prosecutors specialty.

Enlightened

Shot in the chest does not mean shot in the back and exited the chest.

Reading is fundamental stoopid.

Some guy

DubDave - "As i've said before,whatever political gains we get from this will be used to make the world a better and safer place...tighter gun controls etc."

Dub,

Do you favor repealing "Stand Your Ground?"

Thanks in advance.

Ben Franklin

TC;

Do you think Romney/Ryan is the ticket for GOP turnout?

DublinDave

"False statement. The EMT's made no such decision. Zimmerman declined to be taken to the hospital."

Well there are TWO reports being discussed here.One is the Sandford PD report that notes Zimmerman declined further medical treatment.That report is a little odd because refusing neccesary medical treatment for a serious head trauma WHILE you're in police custody, isn't a decision you get to make. There's a liability issue.

If you're Joe smhoe on the street then sure it's your call.


This was the EMT'S decision.

In a case where someone receives a serious head trauma EMT will inspect the head for signs of swelling,they'll clean the wound and they'll BANDAGE the wound.I believe it's also their policy to place an additional bandage 1 inch beyond the edges of wound.

They also check for pupil dialation.A high heart rate,especially distolic,is a sign that a person who received such a severe injury has had a concussion.They'll check basic skills,reflexes,etc and they'll put a cervical collar on said patient,take him to the hospital to test for Whiplash.While at the hospital they'll conduct CT-Scan of the head to see if brain is swelling and/or bleeding of the brain.

Zimmerman needed none of the follow-up treatments and this was the finding of the on-sight EMT unit.Hell they didn't even put a freakin bandage on him.The cops may have suggested further treatment and Zimmerman may have declined but it was the EMT that made the call.

Ignatius J Donnelly

"I'm wearing a checked shirt."

Ignatius J Donnelly

There were two Darrens on Bewitched

Ignatius J Donnelly

I've joined a ADHD support group here.

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