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April 16, 2012

Comments

Thomas Collins

As DOT pointed out above, the issue is not where the entrance wound was. I think the prosecution is going to rely primarily on a "well coached" (by Crump and then the prosecutor's folks) Dee Dee to advance a theory that Martin was scared crapless by Zimmerman, and in fact doubled back when he could have easily gotton to where he was staying becasue he was afraid Zimmerman was going to follow him into the home. In the course of doubling back, Martin came upon Zimmerman, the fight ensued, and Zimmerman shot Martin. Even if one bought the prosecutor's hokum, it's not second degree murder. One question in my mind is whether Dee Dee has been "coached" well enough to say on the stand that Martin saw the gun before the fight (thus further bolstering the claim I think the prosecution will make that to the extent Martin started the fight, it was Martin who was in fear of bodily harm).

Bruce

Barbara O'Brien:

And now that the criminal justice system has taken the case, let it go. It's extremely stupid to continue to make assumptions about what the trial is going to find, or which news stories are "true" and which ones are "false." Y'all want to accuse me of bias, but I'm the one saying to wait to see what the trial reveals and stop assuming that you already know exactly what happened.
I find that interesting coming from someone who posted:
And if he were trying to fake injury to establish his defense, plastering himself bandages is an obvious move. It's like people wearing neck braces to fake whiplash.
In any case, I think that you miss the point here - not really about guilt or innocence of George Zimmerman, but rather, the intentional misinformation by liberal leaning media organizations like NBC/MSNBC and CNN.

BTW - here in a excerpt from the original police report:

Report Date: 2/27/2012 3:29 Reporter: Smith, Timothy
...
While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head.
...
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, He was transported to tine Sanford Police Department...
SFD was apparently Rescue 38 of the Sanford Fire Department. This was also the unit that tried to resuscitate Martin.

This isn't a report from several days later, but rather, from the report written up by Officer Smith, later in the shift on which the incident happened. Who to believe? CNN or Officer Smith (along with the neighbors)?

Back to my point - the question is not whether Zimmerman is or is not guilty, acted in self-defense, etc., but rather, the actions of the various news outlets who seem to have intentionally misled the public. Ok, and, yes, about a special prosecutor who included a bunch of innuendo, but insufficient relevant hard facts, to support a 2nd degree murder indictment, after showing significant bias in favor of the victim and his family, apparently in response to racial pressure ramped up by the inaccurate reporting mentioned above.

Ben Franklin

Chubby;

Is DoT having a good day yet?

Enlightened

Dudu - "Zimmerman needed none of the follow-up treatments and this was the finding of the on-sight EMT unit.Hell they didn't even put a freakin bandage on him.The cops may have suggested further treatment and Zimmerman may have declined but it was the EMT that made the call"

Please, do tell why Zimmerman had on bandages the next day.


I've got some popcorn and sody-pop, cuz I know this is gonna be good.

Waiting

I think everyone should wait until the trial before commenting on this or that picture. It will all come out.

Thomas Collins

BFF, I think Ryan will help somewhat with turnout. Also, becasue he has been in the public eye and has presented himself well, I think he presents less of an chance for surprises. Obama has already seriously attacked him, but Obama is going to attack Romney anyway on entitlement reform. So, unless there are rattling skeletons that come out before the convention, I think Ryan will be the Veep choice.

windansea

Shots fired from close range leave tell-tale marks called stippling, or tattooing. These marks are discolorations of the skin caused by burning gunpowder. Evidence of contact with hot gunpowder can be seen just above the “V” opening of the shirt (the blackened area) in the photograph above. The person who wore this shirt was the victim of a shooting at close range—less than a foot away—with a 9mm pistol. Notice there’s no hole in the back of the shirt. No hole, no exit wound. The bullet stayed in the body even from a shot at this short distance.

http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/ins-and-outs-of-gunshot-wounds/

Danube of Thought

A.W.R. Hawkins:

"Over the weekend I had a post on Big Government that looked at the trouble Democrats are making for themselves by trying to depict 'stand your ground”'laws as bad laws, and further, trying then to hang them as albatrosses around the necks of Republicans. As we’ve seen, there have been a number of Democrats in state offices who’ve not only signed stand your ground bills into law but have actually defended those bills when gun-grabbers protested.

"To date, Democrat governors who have either signed a stand your ground bill into law or at least refused to veto it include, Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana, Jennifer Granholm of Michigan, Brian Schweitzer of Montana, John Lynch of New Hampshire, Brad Henry of Oklahoma, Phil Bredesen of Tennessee, Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Janet Napolitano of Arizona.
And here’s the kicker folks—California, one of the most staunchly liberal states in the union, is a stand your ground state. This is truly bad news for the Democrats who’ve been shouting down guns rights in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting, because they’ve so wanted us to believe such laws could only be found in those red, 'hayseed state'” like Florida. Yet the ugly truth is Florida’s stand your ground law only dates back to 2005, while California’s dates back to the 19th century."

bgates

That wasn't your point. ' Burglaries down; Good!' seemed to be the Mark

You're a stupid person, so it's no surprise you're having trouble here.

My point was that contrary to busty's brainless comment that Z hadn't stopped the burglaries, they had in fact stopped. That's a separate question from whether Z was justified in shooting Martin in the chest.

Danube of Thought

"...it was Martin who was in fear of bodily harm"

Irrelevant to whether Zimmerman was at the time he fired the shot. Nothing says both men couldn't have been in such fear.

In any event highly implausible: if Martin was in fear he could easily have gone home.

Bruce
When I was younger I competed in cross-country three-day eventing (equestrian competitions that involve taking 1500 lb horses over six foot high jumps). A woman I knew came off going over a jump during one of the events and hit her head. She showed no bumps or gashes and was examined by the medical staff on the course and they found nothing wrong with her. Three days later she collapsed, was rushed to the hospital, and they found bleeding on her brain. She nearly died.
A maybe more famous example of this was Gary Kildall, the creator of CP/M, from which DOS was cloned (and the Microsoft empire founded). Fell down (drunk) one night, hit his head. Seemed ok right after that, and was dead a couple of days later from blunt force trauma to the head.
Danube of Thought

"Zimmerman needed none of the follow-up treatments and this was the finding of the on-sight EMT unit."

So what? He doesn't have to show serious injury, or any injury at all. The existence of the two injuries corroborates his description of the events. Do you understand that?

Ignatius J Donnelly

@danube of thought,
All of those states you've named are places where you better support such laws if you want to be elected and California can vary quite a bit. Many places there have long been conservative bastions.

Chubby

when Trayvon reached for something in his waist, as related by Z., it was probably his phone. but how would Z know that? he could have thought the move looked like T was reaching for a weapon. Both sides were edgy and suspicious on overdrive.

cathyf

Something that I don't think I've seen discussed...

Is it really such a great idea for Florida, and Orlando in particular, to go out there and so publicly declare open season on "white" people? I mean, between the "white hispanics" and the "white asians" and the "white native americans" and the "white caucasians" that's a pretty large fraction of the customer base for DisneyWorld, Busch Gardens, Universal, etc.

Why would you take your kids there if the authorities completely give up any pretense of stopping the gangbangers and the thugs from doing whatever they want?

fdcol63

SYG laws were passed in many of these blue states to provide some legal defense for batterd women who'd found it necessary to protect themselves from abusive men with firearms.

The irony is deep.

Strawman Cometh

cathyf,
I'm never going back. Won't be revisiting Baltimore, either, despite their wonderful aquarium.

Thomas Collins

DOT, although I don't think the theory I have propounded as the likely prosecution one is consistent with what actually happened, I do think it is the best the prosecution has. And, if Dee Dee is "well coached", it may confuse the jury.

In any event, your "irrelevant" comment is going to cause me to go back to my criminal law notes and also to take a look at current Florida jury instruction law. My understanding is that if Zimmerman acted to put Martin in mortal fear, Zimmerman doesn't avoid a manslaughter charge because he shot Martin in response to Martin's actions, and if Zimmerman's actions rose to the level of depravity, a second degree murder charge would still lie. But I'll have to check whether my memory is correct. Once again, I don't think the facts support this theory of the case; I am simply arguing what I think the prosecution theory will be to survive the preliminary hearing and what the prosecution will put forth to a jury if Zimmerman doesn't plea bargain.

Keep in mind that, whatever else one may say about Corey, she is savvy. I can't imagine her going even this far without a "well-coached" Dee Dee.

Danube of Thought

"Why would you take your kids there if the authorities completely give up any pretense of stopping the gangbangers and the thugs from doing whatever they want?"

Interesting to reflect on the fact that no one fears white rioting should GZ be convicted. No government witness need fear for his safety if he testifies. All of the intimidation and threats of violence run in one direction. One would expect a deep sense of concern on the part of liberals that such a climate would affect the criminal process. But one would misunderstand liberals.

boatbuilder

Too bad for George Zimmerman that he wasn't named Jorge Rodgriguez like his neighbor. None of us would have ever heard of him.

Jim Ryan

So, let me get this straight. A cute little kid gets hunted down and shot in the back by white tea party racist and now the murderer has the gall to show up in court in a neck brace? AYFKM?! There was nothing about his in the police report, the witness accounts or any of the news stories. But all of a sudden the bastard has a neck brace on?! AYFKM?!

Danube of Thought

"if Zimmerman acted to put Martin in mortal fear, Zimmerman doesn't avoid a manslaughter charge because he shot Martin in response to Martin's actions"

I thought a case had been cited to the contrary, but am unsure. In any event I take it Martin's fear would have to have been of the objective, "reasonable" kind, which I don't think a well-coached Dee-Dee can establish.

Thomas Collins

Or even better, boatbuilder, Hakim Jamaal Hernandez.

AliceH

cboldt | April 17, 2012 at 12:33 PM (yeah yeah an hour ago)

According to several accounts (one of which from 4/12 - LUN), "[O'Mara] said he wasn't taking a fee from Zimmerman...."

I was unable to find the article I read originally, that struck me as implying he is currently working w/o a fee arrangement but that a fee would likely be worked out in future.

I did not read that to mean "pro bono".

cboldt

-- But all of a sudden the bastard has a neck brace on? --


Crutches too.


And it turns out that the witnesses heard a hail of gunfire, and Zimmerman had tried to throw an empty magazine away, but investigators found it at the scene and never reported it.

Danube of Thought

Is there evidence one way or the other about whether there was an exit wound?

Does anyone seriously think that the prosecutor did not consult thoroughly with the coroner before alleging that Martin was shot "in the chest?"

Thomas Collins

I think you are correct that even a "well-coached" Dee Dee couldn't establish this. But if this goes to trial, the prosection has to have something.

OK, I've got my homework tonight. I'm going to try to find out the Florida law on this multiple fear of death issue.

bgates

Is it really such a great idea for Florida, and Orlando in particular, to go out there and so publicly declare open season on "white" people?

I'm going to say "no".

Strawman Cometh

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Florida's SYG offers more legal protection for the shooter than any of the others, with the pre-trial hearing discussed here at length it prevents the prosecution from bleeding the innocent defendant. One of GZ's problems is that most, if not all, of the FA judges and prosecutors do not "like" these protections and are looking to have the law discredited in the popular press.

derwill

Dublin Dave, how serious does one's injuries have to be to warrant having been afraid for one's life. Is admission into the ICU serious enough, but a trip to the emergency room is not? Being treated and released at the scene is not enough, but a trip to the hospital would have been? If one is the process of having one's head bashed into the pavement, how many blows and of what severity must one suffer before one is allowed to respond in self-defense?

The point we've been trying to show you with the examples we've provided of the equestrian, the skier and the drunk Mr. Kildall, is that with head injuries even trained EMTs couldn't s tell how severe and life-threatening those injury turned out to be. Yet you expect the person suffering the beat down, during the moment it is happening, to make some kind of value judgement as to whether he's being hurt bad enough at the time to warrant trying to stop said beating.

BlahBlahBlah

"And here’s the kicker folks—California, one of the most staunchly liberal states in the union, is a stand your ground state."

Actually, ironically, California (as a whole) is absolutely anything but staunchly liberal.

We vote extreme "Conservative" on actual issues. Stand Your Ground, 3 strikes, Death penalty, against tax increases, against legalized drugs, to ban Gay Marriage, and on and on and on and on...

We just have an unbelievably high Minority population, and Minorities have been told for years that they are being paid off so they must vote for Democrats to continue to be paid off.

Minorities are stickily conservative in their actual views, and they vote as such when given the chance on actual issues. They only vote Liberals into office because of the Democrats scare tactics, lies and overall "you must stay on the plantation we have created for you" tactics.

That is the real reason Democrats are constantly screaming Republicans are racists. If Minorities were able to freely think for themselves about the actual facts and issues, they would vote Republican every day of the week...

But anyway, the actual makeup of California is a handful of Liberal College and Hollywood types plus a ton of unsuspecting Minorities they are able to dupe into voting for Democrats, against their moral views. Its a Conservative state being blackmailed and scammed and scared into voting Democrat (as are most states, really)

cboldt

AlicH - Thanks. I found another source, as well.
Zimmerman arraignment set for May 29 | The Post and Courier | Charleston SC

Speaking with media after Thursday's hearing, O'Mara said he is not taking any legal fees for representing Zimmerman, whom O'Mara described as indigent. "He doesn't have any money," O'Mara said.

The article you linked has superior information about O'Mara, thanks again for providing it.

cboldt

-- Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Florida's SYG offers more legal protection for the shooter than any of the others, with the pre-trial hearing discussed here at length it prevents the prosecution from bleeding the innocent defendant. --


Florida isn't the only state to provide civil immunity when deadly force is used in self defense, but Florida may be unique in that it includes (toothless) protection against unlawful arrest, detention, and charging. Another aspect where FL law may be more "generous" is extending the right to stand ground outside of the house and automobile. Inapplicable in this case, and in EVERY jurisdiction, the person who uses deadly force has to be in reasonable fear of serious injury or death.

cboldt
Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler announces she will issue a ruling on whether or not she will preside over George Zimmerman's trial by Friday.
She wants to try this case.
BlahBlahBlah

"Is there evidence one way or the other about whether there was an exit wound?"<.i>

Why are people even talking about an exit wound?

The coroner did an autopsy and was convinced Martin was "shot in the chest". The prosecution therefore is arguing Martin was "shot in the chest" based off the documentation she has.

Exit wound or not, it is completely irrelevant - the person in a position to make such a determination has concluded "shot in the chest".

So just ignore the idiotic "he was clearly shot in the back because no one ever talked about an exit wound" conspiracies. They are just la-la land, fantasy rants doing nothing but chasing unicorns in the clouds.

Thomas Collins

The head thing is the part of this case that burns me up the most, becasue of personal experience. Thirteen years ago, my oldest was in ICU in Central Maine Medical Center in Lewiston, Maine after having run into a tree with her helmetless head while skiing. Thank God she recovered, but it was touch and go for awhile, and the initial estimate by the docs was death or severe deformities for life. Yet, her head looked just fine and intact. You would have known she was in an accident only because of the marks and shaving of the head from the brain surgery, not from the accident itself.

jimmyk

off.

cboldt

-- Why are people even talking about an exit wound? --


The natural temptation to interact with scolds, trolls and morons is great.

narciso

I'm reminded how this is almost the reverse of the famous lefty agitprop Z by Costa Gavras, which was about the Lambrakis affair,
that was an intentional battery and murder of lefty Greek politico, in the pre Colonel regime, a grievous head wound played a part in
that story as well, whereas it's quite clear
it's an accidental gunshot,

Captain Hate

The natural temptation to interact with scolds, trolls and morons is great.

It's diverted attention from the Indonesian being a complete laughingstock yesterday.

cboldt

Zimmerman judge expected to step aside Wednesday - Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel, April 17

Court officials issued a statement this afternoon, saying Recksiedler is expected to decide what to do no later than Friday.

But things should become clearer Wednesday. That's the day Recksiedler is expected to sign an order, surrendering control of the case.

She is in Daytona Beach today, temporarily filling in as an appellate judge on the Fifth District Court of Appeal. She has little option but to grant the motion because of a possible conflict of interest. Several courthouse workers said that'll happen Wednesday.

cboldt

-- It's diverted attention from the Indonesian being a complete laughingstock yesterday. --


You say Tomato, I say Cucumber. It's all good. But yeah, Obama is a moron. Good at expressing platitudes, but even those are muddle-headed.

narciso

I've dubbed it 'Oprah deep' leftists, just superficial enough (for some to think) he knows what he is talking about.

Danube of Thought

I'm missing the bubumeister already.

Nap time.

Thomas Collins

Re Obama and Colombia: those Secret Service guys going wild may have helped Obama. The Escapade of the Missing Forty-Seven Dollars allowed MSM not to focus much on the summit itself.

Extraneus

Why are people even talking about an exit wound?

I'd like to know if there was one - because if there was, then either the stain and bullet were in the grass or they're weren't. IOW, either Martin was on his back, being murdered by a depraved Zimmerman, or he was on top, beating him, and an exit wound could help answer that.

(Of course, the fact that he ended up on his stomach would seem to support the latter scenario.)

Redbrow

..he's got a nose that's been somehow mysteriously broken overnight(I say overnight because you can clearly see from the SPD tape there's no blood on his shirt and his nose isn't swollen)

Ever hear of the Mayo Clinic? Here is what actual medical authorities have to say regarding broken noses.

Broken Nose Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic staff
Signs and symptoms of a broken nose may appear immediately or may take up to three days to develop.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/broken-nose/DS00992/DSECTION=symptoms

Extraneus

off

cboldt

I bet there is some uneasy tension in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. I wonder how that community breaks down, between supporting Martin's version, vs. supporting Zimmerman's.


Got thinking about that, reading the statement that "The neighbors feel they owe Zimmerman their public support now that he's being charged."

narciso

OT, Ace reviews 'Cabin in the Woods' and the thread becomes 'spoiler city'

http://minx.cc/?post=328490

Clarice

Boldiacto

Clarice

They do owe him their support.

As for O'Mara, no criminal lawyer could hope for better advertising than his skillful handling of this case can bring him.And it's not so complex that it will take much work on his part.

Extraneus

Speaking of lawyers...

$412 check that bought Superman sold for $160,000

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- The $412 check that DC Comics wrote to acquire Superman from Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster has sold for $160,000.

Stephen Fishler, CEO of ComicConnect.com and Metropolis Collectibles, said Tuesday that the check was auctioned online to an unnamed buyer.

The check is made out to Siegel and Shuster. It includes a line item for $130 showing DC paid for full ownership and rights to Superman. But a legal dispute over creator's rights to the character is still far from settled.

Siegel and Shuster created Superman together while teenagers in Cleveland, Ohio, in the early 1930s. His first appearance was in "Action Comics" No. 1 in April 1938.

The canceled check was saved by a DC Comics staffer in the 1970s and sat undisturbed in a desk drawer for 38 years.

cboldt

-- As for O'Mara, no criminal lawyer could hope for better advertising than his skillful handling of this case can bring him. And it's not so complex that it will take much work on his part. --


I agree. He might even get some clients from the lynch mob side, should they find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to use deadly force in self defense.

BlahBlahBlah

"I'd like to know if there was one - because if there was, then either the stain and bullet were in the grass or they're weren't. IOW, either Martin was on his back, being murdered by a depraved Zimmerman, or he was on top, beating him, and an exit wound could help answer that."

Having an exit wound wouldn't even tell you that though. The bullet could have exited as he was sitting about to get up off the ground just the same. Maybe Zimmerman walked away, turned, let martin start to rise as Zimmerman aimed and then shot. He is that evil, ya know...

I'll tell you what would indicate if he were on his back or in the air though - the prosecution indicating in their affidavit that Martin was on the ground when he was shot. They speculated on everything else that made Zimmerman look evil, so they would have had to included such an incriminating aspect, right? Did they do that?

If Martin was on his back when he was shot, the only thing would have to put in the affidavit would be:

"Martin was on his back when he was shot; Zimmerman had him pinned"

That's it; that's all that would be needed to prove almost without a doubt that Zimmerman needs to go to trial. Wonder why they didn't put that in their affidavit...

Clarice

I only we were more like the Swedish left..I mean people like O'Bob and KK would have their dreams come true-Oh, wait: http://www.friatider.se/shocking-photos-shows-swedish-minister-of-culture-celebrating-with-niger-cake#.T413VM2wzf1.facebook

Sue

I broke my nose playing softball when I was 10 years old. My nose was laying flat on the side of my face. Not a drop of blood. Not one drop. Had to have surgery to set my nose back and looked like Kid Shelleen's twin brother.

Thomas Collins

Bob Owens makes a solid case that Corey has strayed into Nifong territory. See LUN.

jimmyk

So who got the $160,000 for that canceled $412 check? And wouldn't it be great to be able to write a check, and then sell the cancelled check for more than the amount on the check? Of course, then the check might never be cashed....

BlahBlahBlah

BTW everyone, here we go again...

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-woodland-pursuit-gunfire,0,2835826.story

Its the newest craze in California after the family went to the sons funeral and gave a pre-burial press conference with their lawyer where they said they are going to sue for 121 Million.

The situation as I understand it now

~ Man driving erratically

~ Cops go to pull him over

~ Man leads cops on chase

~ Man calls cops and gives statements including (but not limited to) the following:
~~~ "I have a gun."
~~~ "I've been arrested before for possession of destructive devices, I'm not afraid of the cops."
~~~ "If they pull their guns, I'm gonna have to pull my gun out on them."
~~~ "I'm not gonna get hurt s---head, f--- these police, they're gonna get hurt."

~ Man gets out of car, holds hands together as if aiming gun

~ Cops fire 91 shots

~ Dumbass dead

...But the family insists that when the cops ran the plates and found out he had a "Muslim sounding name" it was his death sentence.

(like in the Zimmerman case, still finding out facts - but the above is a pretty good rough rundown of it as is currently known)

BlahBlahBlah

oh, forgot to add - dumbass was unarmed. He was just "acting" apparently...

MJW

That report is a little odd because refusing neccesary medical treatment for a serious head trauma WHILE you're in police custody, isn't a decision you get to make. There's a liability issue.

The Supreme Court of Florida held in Satz v. Perlmutter that the state constitutional right to privacy allows even state prisoners to refuse medical treatment.

Clarice

Speaking of dumb--from the WaPo:Mohammad Ashan, a mid-level Taliban commander in Paktika province, strolled toward a police checkpoint in the district of Sar Howza with a wanted poster bearing his own face. He demanded the finder’s fee referenced on the poster: $100.

Afghan officials, perplexed by the man’s misguided motives, arrested him on the spot. Ashan is suspected of plotting at least two attacks on Afghan security forces. His misdeeds prompted officials to plaster the district with hundreds of so-called “Be on the Lookout” posters emblazoned with his name and likeness.

Sara

My son has sustained more than one head injury either from an accident or from playing football. He was knocked on his a$$ in a game, had a nose bleed, got cleaned up and went back out on the field for the rest of the game. Later that night he started complaining of a headache and he was throwing up. I took him to the emergency room even though there were no visible signs of injury. He had a concussion and a broken nose. By the next day the swelling and bruising had appeared and he had two black eyes and his nose was swollen to 3 times normal. It was about 20 hours after the injury before any visible signs were noticeable.

Chubby

unfortunately, they can't make movie audiences wait 20 hours to see the visible injuries, so people educated by movies think they appear immediately

Extraneus

Here it is, Jimmy. See bottom of page for details (56 bids, no buyer info).

DebinNC

If GZ had delayed police interrogation, claiming a need to go to the hospital to be checked out, I'd be less convinced he's telling the truth. His actions were the opposite of a guilty person buying time to get his lies together.

MJW

unfortunately, they can't make movie audiences wait 20 hours to see the visible injuries, so people educated by movies think they appear immediately

I prefer the way they do things in movies. I'm impatient, and hate waiting for all the information in the Zimmerman case to trickle out week by week, month by month. Why can't we just cut to the trial?

cboldt

-- I'm impatient, and hate waiting for all the information in the Zimmerman case to trickle out week by week, month by month. --


That's why the first narrative is the most important one. Many of the impatient ones have obtained all the information they will ever obtain on this case, courtesy of the media's selection of front page news.


No matter the conditions for releasing Zimmerman, be they dismissal or acquittal, the mob will reject the conclusion.

Sara

Adrenalin accounts for a lack of awareness of a serious injury. It is what sustained my son and allowed him to finish playing after his injury. It is probably what made GZ not realize he needed more than first aid.

Chubby

((If you want to blame someone; Blame the Public, not the Messenger.))

except when it's Rush Limbaugh or Fox News, then you blame the messenger.

Sara

I have seen lawyer O'Mara twice and must say he is underwhelming. Is he
supposed to be a good attorney? He seems like a woos to me and no fire at all. Someone should compile all the JOM threads and send them to him. He could get up to speed in a couple of hours. He seems to be hopelessly uninformed and not too bright to me.

Redbrow

Too bad Zimmerman could not afford top notch spin doctors like team Martin has.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy.

On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/trayvon-before-the-media_n_1400485.html

DrJ

off

DrJ

Off?

Porchlight

Per AliceH's link upthread, O'Mara says SYG is an important element of this case:

O'Mara has had a wide-ranging practice throughout his career; he said he hasn't yet argued a case before a jury that involved a direct invocation of the state's 7-year-old "stand your ground" law.

"It is going to be a facet of this defense, I'm sure," O'Mara said. "That statute has some troublesome portions to it and we're now going to have some conversations and discussions about it as a state. But right now it is the law of Florida and it is the law that is going to have an impact on this case."

That surprises me.

http://www.wowktv.com/story/17402180/zimmerman-attorney-was-casey-anthony-commentator?clienttype=printable

jimmyk

He seems to be hopelessly uninformed and not too bright to me.

As discussed in an earlier thread, I think he's at least claiming to be uninformed about anything he doesn't need to know (such as Zimmerman's story) while he awaits more details about the state's case against his client. That seems appropriate to me. Why should he show his cards in public? Let the state make its case. They are the ones who have to show at least a preponderance of the evidence to get this to trial.

AliceH

Which part surprised you, Porch? That 1) O'Mara hadn't previously argued a case directly involving SYG, or 2) that it's going to be a facet this time?

Actually, I read those as two different things. A "facet" could be as minor as defending against irrelevant or inapplicable interpretations put forth by the prosecutor. IOW, there may not be direct involvement of SYG this time, either - just indirection or misdirection.

DebinNC

At least O'Mara seems unlikely to hurt GZ like the two idiots who preceded him. I doubt we'll hear him tell a national audience GZ's "credibility is now destroyed" or suggest GZ may have flown the coop since it had been two days since they last spoke.

Sara

Good point DebinNC

Porchlight

IOW, there may not be direct involvement of SYG this time, either - just indirection or misdirection.

That makes sense, AliceH. I was just surprised because I don't read SYG as applying at all to this case. So that would be 2), to answer your question. I think I would be concerned if O'Mara seemed to think that he could argue Z's defense *using* SYG.

Extraneus

They put page 1 stories on page 1 for a reason; Readership.

Yet the WaPo ombudsman was miffed that a Page 3 article about how the PPA adds to the deficit led to so many hits on their web page?

MJW

I have seen lawyer O'Mara twice and must say he is underwhelming.

That was sort of my impression, too. He seems like he'd be ever so grateful if the prosecutor would kindly allow him to plead the charge down to manslaughter. He sort of brings to mind the public defender in "My Cousin Vinnie."

That may be unfair, though. Maybe he's the Columbo type, who lulls his opponents into complacency, then nails them to the wall.

Extraneus

I was surprised by this quote from Porch's excerpt:

"That statute has some troublesome portions to it and we're now going to have some conversations and discussions about it as a state. But right now it is the law of Florida and it is the law that is going to have an impact on this case."
IOW, he doesn't necessarily agree with the statute? Why make that comment?
cboldt

-- If you want to blame someone; Blame the Public, not the Messenger. --


There's plenty of blame to go around. Blame both. Idiots who accept what the media sells them (like Trayvon is innocent), plus the liars who sell it.


You're partly to blame. Yes, you, personally.

NO_LIMIT_NIGGA

Derwood: Do you suppose Zim "nearly died" from his head injuries? If so, don't you think he'd have checked himself into a hospital at some point?

Posted by: bunkerbuster

The offers still open for me to come by and give you the full Georgie, bunkerbitch.

I punch you in the face, then slam your head into the ground for a while. If you're still alive and conscious afterward, you can tell me whether my actions put you in fear of death or severe bodily harm.

Deal?

DebinNC

Discussion of SYG law in FL via NPR with a prosecutor and defense attorney answering callers' questions. What I've read so far is very interesting.

AliceH

IOW, he doesn't necessarily agree with the statute? Why make that comment?

To pre-empt the public and prosecutor in their making an argument that SYG is bad law and therefore should not be used (if it can be used) in defense of his client?

Remember: Lawyer talking.

He's going to want to use whatever works, and he's going to want to deflate whatever the prosecutor is using which in no small part is trial-by-media. Keep the media off-balance and you score (a little) against the prosecutor. Agreeing or disagreeing with the law is entirely separate from disarming the press by SEEMING to acknowledge what they've been reporting as in "Ohh, yeah some people don't get SYG. Troublesome".

That could be a load of B.S., but then IANAL - I just don't forget that O'Mara is.

Clarice

As far as I can tell from the facts as we'e winkled them out, SYG comes into play here only with respect to the govt's standard of proof in the bond hearing..where GZ need only establish by a preponderance of the evidence--more likely than not--that he was defending himself when he shot TM.

cboldt

-- then IANAL - I just don't forget that O'Mara is. --


O'Mara is also familiar with the media, having been a "go to" commentator.

bgates

You made the statement, which you appear to agree, was not clearly expressed.

You're a stupid person, so it's no surprise you can neither think nor write clearly. That second comma in your sentence shouldn't be there. My original statement was clear. As I said when you first asked about it, it was unclear to you because you are stupid.

I am sure you were distressed, to an inordinate degree, at the tragedy of the young man's untimely death, and those emotions choked off your real feelings, and those feelings made you appear sub-human.

What you're saying in this train wreck of a sentence is that my real feelings of distress made me appear sub-human. Obviously you don't mean to say that, but you write badly because you are a stupid person. You meant to write that the concealment of my real feelings made me appear sub-human. That is still a stupid thing to write, but that sentence is at least stupid because you think poorly owing to the fact that you are a stupid person, rather than being stupid because you write poorly owing to the fact that you are a stupid person.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

I've seen O'Mara several times, and I have seen no indication that he is anything but a competent, experienced criminal defense attorney. His job is to win the court case, not to make an impression on the press and general public.

IMO, in this type of case, flamboyance and public displays of brilliance will be counterproductive to his primary objective -- to make sure GZ doesn't spend the rest of his life in jail and the secondary objective -- to get him acquitted of all charges on the grounds of self-defense. Ability to ascertain and document facts and pin down defense witnesses, and having an intimate working knowledge of the fine points of Florida criminal and evidence law and criminal procedure, the prosecutor's modus operandi, the predilections of the trial judge and skill at carving up opposing witnesses will suffice.

BlahBlahBlah

okay everyone, dont worry - Holder IS actually doing his job:

( http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/04/17/secretive-doj-force-watces-trayvon-protests/ )

" A largely unknown group of Justice Department officials has inserted itself into the local Florida protest movement surrounding the killing of Trayvon Martin, assisting the protestors and attending their meetings and rallies.

While the officials are tasked with preventing racial violence, it appears that in carrying out their duties, they have provided significant assistance to those protesting the killing of Martin, who black, by George Zimmerman, who is half white and half Hispanic.

The officials are members of the DOJ’s Community Relations Service, also known as “The Peacemakers,” a special unit established under the 1964 Civil Rights Act and empowered to act to mitigate local tensions between ethnic groups."


...see, apparently the issue is actually with us; we just didn't know what Holder's job entailed or what he is asked to do. Now we do - provide assistance to those "leaders" trying to stir the racial pot.

Its another one of those damn messaging errors I guess...

Danube of Thought

"Conservatives tout the free market as all good, don't they."

No.

narciso

He's more like DA Trotter, played by Lane Smith, in the film,

Chubby

((...by George Zimmerman, who is half white and half Hispanic))

I wonder if the Hispanic half is white, mestizo, mixed race, black, american indian, asian or hawaiian

narciso

Crikey it never ends,


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/04/17/Obama-on-Univision-Politicizes-Trayvon-Again

Chubby

would it be appropriate for Romney to tell Obama to STHU, that he has no business commenting on this case?

Clarice

Surely in the presidential debates Gwen Ifill or some such partisan "moderator" will raise it in a way to make Romney look bad no matter what he says or does.

cboldt

Romney's better off keeping his current position. He doesn't know about the details, so it's inappropriate to make a remark.

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Wilson/Plame