Trayvon Martin Shooting - If Only Obama Had Intervened Sooner

Jiminy - Reuters has a long profile of George Zimmerman and we learn in the lead that he got his gun permit and gun because a neighbor wouldn't control his large, menacing pit bull:

(Reuters) - A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.

The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.

Oh, man - if only the First Dog Diner had been around in September 2009.  We can hear him now - "If I had a dog it would look like Big Boi and Big Boi would look like dinner."

The real juice in the story is a bit later, where Reuters describes the crime wave that had vexed the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Two snippets:

Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

And one of the burglaries was unusually upsetting:

At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.

...

But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses towards certification as a registered nurse.

On August 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.

"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.

Police arrived just as the burglars - who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television - fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.

After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.

"He was so mellow and calm, very helpful and very, very sweet," she said last week. "We didn't really know George at first, but after the break-in we talked to him on a daily basis. People were freaked out. It wasn't just George calling police ... we were calling police at least once a week."

I guess he didn't come off as an annoying contol freak at that moment.

This is the second recent 'new perspective' story from Reuters. Obviously, this might have been more helpful in easing our national blood pressure had it been run last March, but hey.

I will add that I read about the home invasion back when the City of Sanford had more of their police reports online. The prosecutor asked to have them taken down; they live online, but where? In the Google Cache, of course, and now also here: TwinLakesBurglaryReports; the home invasion is p. 13.

The Tampa Bay Times wrote about a neighborhood in transition battered by falling home prices and crime back on March 25. I do not think the Tampa Bay Times crime stat jibes with the Reuters numbers, but here we go:

For the first two months of this year, at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the Sanford police logged 51 calls for service. Half were just people requesting information. The others included eight burglaries, two bike thefts and three simple assaults.

UPDATE: Here is the Miami Herald from March 17, with help from DizzyMissL:

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

Comments

[Strawman Cometh]

Can you explain why TM did not just go on back to his Dad's girlfriend's place instead of backtracking around and attacking GZ?

Good try, Sara. But this level of stupid is impenetrable to the So Crates.

[Strawman Cometh]

Keep on with this obscene comparison, Boris.

Here it comes, Natasha.

[Sara]

No, TM was not an "interloper." He was staying with one or more family members who lived in that complex, and he did belong there.

TM nor neither of his parents lived there. Get your facts correct, please.

[Sara]

Kathy is a racist through and through. She is one of those people who thinks everything is about race. There is nothing in this case that has anything to do with the skin color of either TM or GZ. This case is all about a 17 year old wannabe gangsta who thought, like most 17 year olds, that he was invincible. And it is about poor parenting.

[Clarice]

Should anyone doubt the existence of eternal life, point them to this thread,

Niters.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Trayvon chose his fate, GZ did not."

Yep. Trayvon chose to go out for some snacks from the 7-11 and forgot to check his skin color before he stepped outside.

GZ, on the other hand, was totally at the mercy of that supernatural force that compelled him to point his gun at Trayvon Martin and shoot him.

"only kaka has a conscience, you know."

Nope, I'm not the only one who has a conscience. You probably do, too -- you just forgot where you put it.

[boris]

Trayvon chose to knock a man down get on top and bang his head on concrete. The person he chose to attack had a gun, used it, and that's one of the likely consequences of Trayvon's choice. Trayvon brought his end upon himself.

GZ was legally, ethically, and morally just watching out for himself and his neighbors. You skin color crap is all bullshit.

[Strawman Cometh]

KK,
We've been round and round here. Please share your thoughts on Tawana Brawley.

[Beasts of England]

KK@11:06 - '...forgot to check his skin color...' Well, at least you're not introducing bias into your factual analyses, huh?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"TM nor neither of his parents lived there."

Oh, his father isn't one of his parents? Okay.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Well, at least you're not introducing bias into your factual analyses, huh?"

Right. Racial profiling is not bias, but pointing out that it's bias is bias. Gotcha.

[boris]

Trayvon's father's girlfriend lived there princess factless.

The only "evidence" suggesting racial profiling was faked princess liar.

Ah yes good times good times ...

Princess Kaka: "It's not about "the bloody nose and the bleeding scalp wounds" being evidence in a trial; it's about referring to "the bloody nose and the bleeding scalp wounds" as if these injuries were absolute confirmed fact. THEY ARE NOT. What has to be demonstrated in a courtroom is that there is actual independent objective physical evidence that there WAS a bloody nose and bleeding scalp wounds."

heh ... bless her little pea picking brain.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"GZ was legally, ethically, and morally just watching out for himself and his neighbors. You skin color crap is all bullshit."

Okay, so all that stuff y'all told me over and over about how blacks commit most of the crime so that's why it's okay to assume every black male is suspicious, has nothing to do with skin color. Gotcha.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Trayvon chose to knock a man down get on top and bang his head on concrete."

And you know that for a fact... how?

[Sara]

Yep. Trayvon chose to go out for some snacks from the 7-11 and forgot to check his skin color before he stepped outside.

GZ, on the other hand, was totally at the mercy of that supernatural force that compelled him to point his gun at Trayvon Martin and shoot him.

And she proves my point about her being a racist in her very next remark. KK this case has nothing to do with race. Zero, zilch, nada.

The mob, OTOH, is nothing but about race, screw the facts, screw the evidence.

GZ did not POINT his gun at Trayvon. GZ was on the ground, being held down by Trayvon. They were struggling and Trayvon was reaching for the gun at GZ's waist as was GZ. The shot was body to body, no pointing involved.

[Some guy]

Okay, so all that stuff y'all told me over and over about how blacks commit most of the crime so that's why it's okay to assume every black male is suspicious, has nothing to do with skin color. Gotcha.

KK, please provide an exact quote to back that up. If you can't, don't post to this thread again. Deal?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Trayvon's father's girlfriend lived there princess factless."

Oh so that means his father wasn't staying over there on the night Trayvon visited, and that wasn't why Trayvon was there. Trayvon was there to visit with his father's girlfriend, not with his father, right. Gotcha.

[boris]

"has nothing to do with skin color"

Hell I never said any of that did I princess liar. Again, real slow this time ...

T H E - O N L Y - C L A I M - O F - P R O F I L I N G ...

W A S - F U C K I N G - F A K E

[Kathy Kattenburg]

""GZ was legally, ethically, and morally just watching out for himself and his neighbors. You skin color crap is all bullshit.""

Ohhhhh, I see, so that means GZ was watching out for Trayvon's father's girlfriend, right? Because she lives in that apartment complex. I get it now! GZ was protecting Trayvon's father's girlfriend from Trayvon!

[Sara]

KK: We do not know if his father planned to shack up with his girlfriend that night or not. All we know is they left her son and his son home alone while they went out to dinner.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

No, no deal. Almost everyone here said it over and over again all through every single thread on TM here in which I've participated. Which means that your "I don't know what you're talking about" act is just that -- an act. And I'm not enabling it.

[boris]

"neither of his parents lived there."

11:28 Oh, his father isn't one of his parents?

11:40 his father wasn't staying staying over ...

Can't keep your talking points straight princess. Being a first time guest of someone who lives there means the watch guy probably doesn't know him yet.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"KK this case has nothing to do with race."

Oh, okay, so all of your sarcastic jokes about how if old white ladies were committing all the burglaries and home invasions GZ would have been suspicious of them, had nothing to do with race. Gotcha.

[Some guy]

No, no deal.

So you are an admitted liar?

Either back it up or shut up. Take your pick.

You made an assertion, you *have* to back up, otherwise you're a fool who deserves whatever ridicule comes your way.

[Sara]

KK: You do know that the rash of burglaries and home invasions that had occurred at that complex in the previous 2 months before this incident were by young black guys, right? Might explain why any sketchy acting young black man might raise suspicion with any of the residents, including George Zimmerman.

Most black crime, BTW, is black on black. What is your deal anyway, besides being blinded by your own racism? Why do you keep trying to inject it here?

You do realize that George as a black/Hispanic with a dose of white in him is as much a minority as Trayvon. Besides, he is a registered democrat, which in my mind makes him far more a subject of pathetic insufficiency of grey matter than anything in this case.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"GZ was on the ground, being held down by Trayvon. They were struggling and Trayvon was reaching for the gun at GZ's waist as was GZ."

And you know this for an indisputable fact... how?

[boris]

How do I know this?

Trayvon chose to knock a man down get on top and bang his head on concrete. The person he chose to attack had a gun, used it, and that's one of the likely consequences of Trayvon's choice. Trayvon brought his end upon himself.

GZ's explanation is consistent with his injuries, eye witness statements and police reports of the incident. We have all read about GZ's statement and seen the photographs of his injuries and read the police report.

My conclusions are based on those reports and the overall consistency of them. Far as I can tell yours are based on lies.

[boris]

Well princess Kaka, unless you have better reports, more accurate photographs, more credible eye witnesses it would seem your conclusions are based on made up shit and lies.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Please share your thoughts on Tawana Brawley."

Oh, my thoughts on Tawana Brawley. She's black, and 25 years ago when she was 15 years old, she lied about being raped and having feces smeared on her, so that means that black people in general are liars and criminals, because God knows white people never lie about black people having committed a crime that a white person was responsible for, and this is all extremely relevant to an unarmed black teenager being shot to death in February, 2012.

Will that do?

[Sara]

And you know this for an indisputable fact... how?

I only know this from listening to what was said in court about powder burns and my own indisputable ability to discern that if there are powder burns on Trayvon, he had to be damn close to the gun when it went off.

[Sara]

Oh and let me add that it is consistent with Zimmerman's description of events and with the witness "John" who saw Trayvon on top of George beating on him and reported that George was screaming for help and then he heard the gunshot a couple seconds later. And it is consistent with the 911 tape where we hear GZ screaming almost inhumanly and then the shot. So add it all up and it starts to become indisputable to the reasonable person.

[Strawman Cometh]

And you know this for an indisputable fact.

Dispute it.

so that means that black people in general are liars and criminals,
Projection.

extremely relevant.
The Reverent Al Sharpton

[Strawman Cometh]

Keep bringing it KK, your side is winning

[Have Blue]

Kathy Every piece of evidence shows that TM attacked Zimmerman. No evidence shows the contrary.

You claim that your definition of "self-defense" allows you to attack a person who happens to be walking behind you. Do you really mean that?

[Abadman]

It is hard to get shot in the chest walking away from a fight

[Beasts of England]

KK@11:29 - Of which 'racial bias' do you speak in your reply to me? These threads can be confusing to track, and introducing 'racial bias' appears to be a non sequitur. Thank you.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Dispute it."

I have, 17 zillion times. Are you a machine that's broken, is it that you cannot read, or are you lying?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

Sara 1: "There is nothing in this case that has anything to do with the skin color of either TM or GZ."

Sara 2"This case is all about a 17 year old wannabe gangsta... "

A wannabe gangsta, Sara? Oh yeahhhhh, this case has notttthhhhing to do with skin color. :-)

"And it is about poor parenting."

You have no way of knowing what kind of parents Trayvon's mom and dad are. What a cruel, hateful thing to say. I don't know what kind of human beings your parents are, Sara, and I don't know if you are the result of poor parenting, but I can surmise that it probably was not very good.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Should anyone doubt the existence of eternal life, point them to this thread,"

LOL! Now *that's funny! Genuinely, Clarice. Thanks for making me laugh -- in a good way.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"We do not know if his father planned to shack up with his girlfriend that night or not."

Excuse me, SHACK UP?

Tell me, is it fun for you, using racially tinged language and then claiming you are not a racist, and this has nothing to do with skin color?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Being a first time guest of someone who lives there means the watch guy probably doesn't know him yet."

Ah, so that means that everytime anyone who lives in that complex has company, GZ follows them and asks them who they are and what they're doing there. Right?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"You made an assertion, you *have* to back up, otherwise you're a fool who deserves whatever ridicule comes your way."

You demand that I "back up" stuff that's been said by almost everyone here, in some cases multiple times, throughout this thread? That means either you don't read or you can't read. Or you're a liar. You choose.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

Statement 1:"You do know that the rash of burglaries and home invasions that had occurred at that complex in the previous 2 months before this incident were by young black guys, right? Might explain why any sketchy acting young black man might raise suspicion with any of the residents, including George Zimmerman."

Statement 2. You made an assertion, you *have* to back up, otherwise you're a fool who deserves whatever ridicule comes your way."

On the other hand, sometimes the back up falls in your lap.

[Tom Maguire]

Excuse me, SHACK UP?

Tell me, is it fun for you, using racially tinged language...

I try to learn something new every day, but this looks like a twofer. In addition to discovering eternal life, I am now learning that "shack up" is racially tinged.

Two online dictionaries fail to confirm that. Has the definition become tinged since the national prominence of Shaquille O'Neal? Or can you provide us with some enlightenment here?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"GZ's explanation is consistent with his injuries, eye witness statements and police reports of the incident."

No, it is not. I'm not sure about the police report, I'd have to look it up again, but the photographic evidence is NOT consistent with the injuries GZ reports. And the eyewitness STATEMENT (one, as far as I am aware)
provides only ambiguous information, open to varying interpretations. He ("John," right?) saw two people wrestling on the ground. He did not see how the fight started; he could not know for certain, for either man, who was the aggressor and who was defending himself. It's evidence, but it's unclear what it means. That's for a jury to decide after hearing all the facts in the case.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"... unless you have better reports, more accurate photographs, more credible eye witnesses it would seem your conclusions are based on made up shit and lies."

In other words, it's okay to use crappy evidence to drop all charges against GZ, as long as no strong evidence has been found.

That's intriguing logic, boris.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"It is hard to get shot in the chest walking away from a fight."

It's hard to shoot someone in the chest when you're walking away from a fight.

Here is TM's attorney making the point, much better than I could, about GZ being a stranger to TM and TM having no obligation to tell him his business.

"Trayvon Martin does not have to identify himself to a stranger," he noted. "George Zimmerman never identified who he was to Trayvon." "If he (Zimmerman) doesn't get out of the car ... if he doesn't act as if he's the police, none of this happens."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/25/10854229-witness-zimmerman-never-tried-to-help-trayvon-martin?lite

[jimmyk]

In other words, it's okay to use crappy evidence to drop all charges against GZ, as long as no strong evidence has been found.

That's intriguing logic, boris.

And Kathy stumbles upon the "intriguing logic" of "innocent till proven guilty" "probable cause" (the requirement to have actual evidence of a crime before proceeding to charge someone). Not bad after 7 days of utter confusion on her part.

(And no, the mere fact that a person has shot someone is not evidence of a crime if there is evidence to support a claim of self-defense.)

[Kathy Kattenburg]

I know I'm going to regret trying to explain this, but here goes anyway....

Tom, the term "shacked up" is a crude way of referring to two people living together or having sex without being married. That much I'm sure you know. It's not the phrase in and of itself that's racially tinged, Tom. It's how and when phrases like that -- "shacking up," "gangsta," are two I've seen here -- are used.

Did you know that the former Kate Middleton and her husband, Prince William, lived together before they were married? You probably did. Can you imagine anyone saying that Prince William "shacked up" with Kate Middleton?

People can choose what words and phrases they use to describe common human situations. Living together before or instead of marriage is one of the most ordinary things in the world these days, and has been for some time now. I don't usually see people referring to it as "shacking up," unless they're trying to imply that the two people involved are low-class, or immoral. At best, it's an insulting, offensive term.

I could say more, but I guess I'll leave off here for now.

[jimmyk]

Can you imagine anyone saying that Prince William "shacked up" with Kate Middleton?

Yeah, like maybe those racists at MSNBC?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40253368/ns/today-today_news/t/royal-shack-up-kate-william-moved-months-ago/

(Hint: It's a good idea to do 30 seconds of research before making up stuff.)

[Strawman Cometh]

I feel ashamed

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Yeah, like maybe those racists at MSNBC? http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40253368/ns/today-today_news/t/royal-shack-up-kate-william-moved-months-ago/ (Hint: It's a good idea to do 30 seconds of research before making up stuff.)"

"We cannot find the page you requested."

LOL

[Kathy Kattenburg]

The link worked the second time I tried it. I looked at your link, too, Strawman.

I stand corrected.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

""And Kathy stumbles upon the "intriguing logic" of "innocent till proven guilty" "probable cause" (the requirement to have actual evidence of a crime before proceeding to charge someone)."

There WAS evidence of a crime. Shooting an unarmed person is homicide. Homicide is a crime. If the perpetrator claims self-defense, that has to be proved. In a court of law. Unless the evidence in favor of self-defense is so overwhelming and compelling that a prosecutor decides to drop charges. Which it wasn't in this case.

[Tom Maguire]

It's not the phrase in and of itself that's racially tinged, Tom.

We agree! Of course, I can't square that with your earlier "Tell me, is it fun for you, using racially tinged language...", but let's press on.

Can you imagine anyone saying that Prince William "shacked up" with Kate Middleton?

No need to imagine! As noted, MSNBC did. Also, ABC News (GMA). And as a bonus, there is a related headline from March 30:

Which Hot Hollywood Couple Just Shacked Up Next Door to Prince William and Kate Middleton?

That would be Penélope Cruz and Javier Bardem. Declasse.

Google can be your friend, if you let it. It will introduce you to a much wider world, and perhaps shake some of your misperceptions.