Trayvon Martin: The Media Myths

As a bit of cocktail party prep I wanted to get suggestions identifying the most pervasive and misleading media myths swirling about the Trayvon Martin shooting and the current George Zimmerman case.

So, to start. The NY Times and others have inveighed against Florida's Stand Your Ground law. SYG does eliminate a 'duty to retreat' but that is not in play here because Zimmerman was reportedly on his back getting pummelled.

The only consequence of SYG is that it entitles Zimmerman to a pre-trial hearing evaluating his self-defense claim; the case could be ended right there. If not, Zimmerman can raise the same claims in a full trial.

A second myth is that Zimmerman ignored the instruction of the 911 dispatcher not to follow Martin. That may be true, but it can't be proved from the 911 tape. The NY Times eventually got this right even though their editors did not. [To be fair, the prosecutor makes the same claim in the very unimpressive arrest affidavit, with no supporting evidence.]

As a third myth, the general notion seems to be that Martin was innocently headed for home. That was presumably true when he first caught Zimmerman's eye, but he had plenty of time to get home, a clear path ahead of him, and Zimmerman behind him. It is highly probable that Martin doubled back. Why?

That is a start. Sorry for the no-links; technology is against me now.

Comments

[tom maguire]

"The Sanford PD did a terrible investigation"

Other than missing the cell phone girlfriend who stars in the arrest affidavit - a big miss - I don't know what they missed.

[Ignatz]

--Sorry for the no-links;--

No Slimes links? That's a feature not a bug.

[Rick Ballard]

250 pound brute hunting down innocent elfin infant should be on the list.

[Danube of Thought]

"No apparent injuries." (That one may be officially dead by now.)

[Ignatz]

--Other than missing the cell phone girlfriend who stars in the arrest affidavit - a big miss...--

I've never been clear on whether we know they missed her.
I know it is reported she wasn't known until Crump brought her forward but do we know the cops hadn't spoken to her before hand?

[cboldt]

"Innocent" That one cuts right to the core. If Zimmerman was defending himself, then Martin was not "innocent" by any sense of the word.

The press still runs the pixie-picture of Martin. He was 6'3" - not a giant, but a heck of a lot taller and better reach that Zimmerman had.

[Ignatz]

How about a list of the pervasive JOM myths provided by our own gaggle of deranged and perverted trolls?

[cboldt]

-- I know it is reported [DeeDee] wasn't known until Crump brought her forward but do we know the cops hadn't spoken to her before hand? --

Yes, we know that. She didn't appear until March 17 or 18, somewhere around there. She wasn't known to Crump before that, either.

[Porchlight]

--The NBC edit of the 911 call
--The breathless reporting that Zimmerman used a racial slur ("f***ing c***ns instead of "f***ing punks"

In reality Zimmerman never said the slur and in fact did not mention Martin's race until he was specifically asked by the dispatcher to describe Martin's race.

[Clarice]

The underplaying of the fact that GZ had no animus towards blacks and, in fact, had helped bring the son of a Sanford cop to justice after a beating of a black, homeless man.

Yhe disappearance from most accounts of the testimony of "John" and the dog walker, both of whom confirmed GZ's account.

Treating the community watch program as if it were a band of vigilantes instead of a lower middle class alternative to Manhattan doormen,

[Ignatz]

--He was 6'3" - not a giant--

Perhaps, but six foot three and a half is mighty big and borders on the gigantic. :)

[MarkO]

OK, Iggy, I'll go with "That's Not a Fact" for $500.

[Chubby]

one of the worst cankers imo, is the misleading use of physical portraits. Politico, as of yesterday, is still using the old mugshot of Zimmerman. They know better, but don't do better.

[Ignatz]

--Yes, we know that. She didn't appear until March 17 or 18, somewhere around there. She wasn't known to Crump before that, either.--

Thanks cboldt.
Has it ever been explained how she was not interviewed since the police were no doubt in possession of his phone?

[Clarice]

The ABC and NBC video edits of the police video to hide the obvious injuries GZ had suffered. Even worse, when NBC did show a video with the injuries apparent the commentators pretended there was nothing there.

[Ignatz]

--OK, Iggy, I'll go with "That's Not a Fact" for $500.--

Is that in reference to my 10:58 or 11:02, Mark?
Could fit either one about equally.

[cboldt]

Looking for DeeDee stuff. She is reported to have made this statement, " Eventually, [Trayvon] would run, said [DeeDee], thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin."

That report has DeeDee appearing "exclusively" with ABC news (Matt Gutman again) on March 20. I'll look for earlier appearances. LUN

[Rick Ballard]

"were no doubt in possession of his phone?"

Unless they weren't, of course. We'd need the personal effects inventory before "no doubt" would pertain.

[Porchlight]

And if you really wanted to prep, you could print copies of the following photos:

--Martin as young boy; Martin as gold-toothed tattooed 17 yo

--1st Zimmmerman mug shot when he was pushing 250; current Zimmerman mug shot

[AliceH]

Not sure which is more egregious.

* that racism was GZ's motivation for all his actions, and racism was why GZ was not instantly incarcerated and charged by the SPD
* that the NBP Bounty or the Sharpton/Jackson rallies were at all motivated by a desire to ensure equal protection under the law.

[Danube of Thought]

"Not surprisingly, Sharpton promulgated at least one glaring untruth, claiming Martin was in the morgue for three days before his parents were informed he’d been killed. 'How do you leave this kid in the room like he’s a worthless piece of meat?' he railed. "

[cboldt]

-- Has it ever been explained how she was not interviewed since the police were no doubt in possession of his phone? --

No, it hasn't. I'd like to to know the phone details, lots of calls that day, many short ones.

I figure the police didn't bother, because the evidence of eyewitnesses and forensics was sufficient to reach a corroborated conclusion.

[Porchlight]

Politico, as of yesterday, is still using the old mugshot of Zimmerman.

At least it shows that they know that the current photo shows Zimmerman as a much more sympathetic looking figure (and younger, and smaller, and arguably "more Hispanic looking") than the old one did. Otherwise there is no reason to use it.

People should seriously hammer them on that. There is simply no reason to go with a mug shot for a previous arrest 7 years ago when you could go with the new one for THIS CASE.

[Gus]

all of the mischaracterizations are designed by the biased liberal mind. The MEDIA has a DUTY to be OBJECTIVE. The MEDIA IS NOT OBJECTIVE.
Let me give you an example of honest objectivity.
As many of you may have heard, I went to Wrigley Field to see my Brewers play the Cubs. Ryan Braun the NL MVP and Milwaukee left fielder was BOOOOOOOOOED very very loudly. Braun had tested positive for high TESTOSTERONE in October, his test was thrown for procedural reasons.
I am objective. I believe Braun has something in his system that he shouldn't have. I don't KNOW that, but I'm not a libtard fool. The MEDIA has not used that common sense objectivity for over 20 years.
Skittles was a black boy killed by a hateful cop wannabee etc etc etc etc. Facts are discarded to fit the narative that was already in place. The narative is that LIBTARDS are nice and love black folks. Nothing gets between the LIB and his IDEOLOGY. You are evil mean, racist and red neck. They are nice.
Trayvon Martin got killed because he viciouslyi assaulted Zimmerman. All the stories of Skittles and Iced tea do not change the facts as they emerge. Had Skittles killed Zimmerman,libs would be bending over backward to tell us how wrong Zimmerman was and how right Skittles was.

[MarkO]

Iggy, it was a reference to the longish quibble of the outed bigot KK. But, like all great literature, it takes on the meaning found by the reader.

[rse]

Corey's repeated use of the term "victim" as if this is a white hat/black hat situation with GZ as a predator.

I think the term "deceased" is far more accurate to the facts that have been put forth. Everywhere but her charging affidavit.

Affidavits should not be based on a candidate's, I mean a prosecutor's, druthers.

[cboldt]

Attorneys for Martin's family said it wasn't until weeks later, when Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, was looking through the teen's cell phone bill that he noticed the timing of the last call. The family and their attorneys then contacted Trayvon's girlfriend and heard her account of the night.

If that's true, then DeeDee was not forthcoming in the first place.

[Danube of Thought]

Remember the heat Time took for its cover photo of OJ that made him look "blacker?"

[AliceH]

Gus - I find your repetitive use of "whitey zimmerman" and "skittles martin" really off-putting. As a result, I have been skipping past your posts. I am not going to ask you to change anything but figured I'd let you know since it's just possible I'm not the only one.

[Ignatz]

--Iggy, it was a reference to the longish quibble of the outed bigot KK. But, like all great literature, it takes on the meaning found by the reader.--

I thought's that what it was, Mark, but wasn't sure.
I had a great joke about a Holiday Inn Express and your Jeopardy reference lined up but didn't want to use it in the wrong context.
The world is just a little sadder for it.

[cboldt]

I'd have to look at the reports, too many to keep straight, but once Crump and Gutman got to work, there was no mention of a fight.

I think the first reports, local reports, included statements about Zimmerman getting a a beat down.

But the general public belief created by a mendacious press was that there was no fight, Zimmerman had no possible good reason to shoot.

[DebinNC]

Inflating the 2005 incident as proof that GZ is "violent", when in reality..:

According to the [arrest] report, agents with Florida’s Alcohol Beverage and Tobacco division were arresting several employees near the University of Central Florida. Agent Paul Fleishman wrote that Zimmerman walked up to a pal under arrest and began chatting, refusing to leave. Zimmerman cursed him, Fleishman wrote, before pushing him and causing a “short struggle.” The charge was later dropped when Zimmerman entered a “pre-trial diversion” program."

The myth about GZ's history of "domestic violence" is even more laughable given the facts.

[Ignatz]

--Unless they weren't, of course. We'd need the personal effects inventory before "no doubt" would pertain.--

Possibly true on the night he was shot since it was rainy and dark and there was a struggle, but hard to feature unless someone picked it up before the next morning.
After the gf aspect of this story if they didn't have it early on I think we'd have already heard, no?

[GMax]

You want myths, hell why not just call up the last dozen or so posts of Bubu and Kranky Kathy. They got everyone one of them down pat and repeat them ad nauseum. Dont rack your brain on this, go to the misinformation encyclopedias...

[derwill]

"Politico, as of yesterday, is still using the old mugshot of Zimmerman. They know better, but don't do better."

That's because they know their audience. Liberals are not cognitive thinkers. They respond to and argue out of emotion. For the narrative that they have chosen to believe in to survive, Martin must be wholly innocent--a black child murdered in cold blood by a white racist. A smiling, angelic looking 14 year old in a football uniform supports the narrative. An athletic 6'3" 17-year-old with grill and tats who was serving a school suspension for selling pot does not.

A cognitive thinker knows that a tall, athletic pot-selling teenager with grill and tats could still prove be an innocent victim if the facts supported it. But liberals live in a world of emotion, not facts, It's all about how they feel. It's easier to "feel" that TM is a wholly innocent victim if the image they have of him is that of a smiling, angelic child.

[AliceH]

The invention of a new and approved identity category called "white hispanic" seems worth a cocktail or two.

[Steve]

I would like to read about the layout of the community again. The fight took place close by Zimmerman's truck? The apartment Martin was staying at was relatively far away from the scene of the fight and was accessible by foot only? The prosecution says Martin was going home and Zimmerman followed and fought him. If he did that, how does the fight take place back by the car and the road?

[rse]

Corey is a disinterested champion of justice.

Here's the truly horrific fact due to Corey's horrific judgment in this case. There are bad guilty people who when this is all over will start asserting they too are being overcharged. Like she did in the zimmerman case.

Arrogance, ambition and responding based on feelings are such a tragic combination.

[Chubby]

((white hispanic" seems worth a cocktail or two.))

maybe it could even be the NAME of a new cocktail

[cboldt]

The fight wasn't "close" to the truck. The fight was in a common area between two rows of buildings.

From the scene of the fight, I'd guess about 30 yards down one path, to the road then another 10 or so to the truck. Martin's house was 70 yards, in a different direction (90 degrees from heading to Z's truck) from the scene of the fight.

[tom maguire]

Somewhere CNN has a transcript of the presser where Crump describes the discovery of DeeDee.

The story is comical. Even though martins family joked about how he was on the phone 24/7 it never dawned on anyone to ask his girlfirend or anyone else what they had heard. Until after the 911 tapes came out.

And this sphinx-like teenage girl never says to anyone 'OMG I was like, so talking to him just before he died'. Untill 3 weeks later when the 911 tapes are out.

I think Crump helped her memory, but try to prove it.

[East Bay Jay]

Do we know for sure what happened to the gun? Yesterday I happened to hear Hannity and a caller said that Zimmerman kept his gun. Hannity didn't challenge.

[jeannebodine]

Holy moly, wait'll you get a load of David French's come back to Andy McCarthy at NRO today. Overblown we much?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/296014/re-martin-case-affidavit-david-french

[tom maguire]

Oh, charles Blow opens with 'disregarded the dispatcher' today, so he will merit an eventual UPDATE.

[cboldt]

I read an account of the presser from someone who was there. The recording of DeeDee was described as "inaudible."

DeeDee is going to be trouble for Corey, Crump, and Martin. She's made up too many details, like "Zimmerman had Trayvon cornered."

[boris]

"It's easier to "feel" that TM is a wholly innocent victim if the image they have of him is that of a smiling, angelic child"

More than that they see the case as a cultural litmus test. Like the ability to see the Emperor's New Clothes, they can see the "Truth of the Narrative" at a higher plane of capital T truth than reliance on details associated with something called "objective reality". How anyone can claim to know objective reality (if there is such a thing) from hundreds of miles away looking at a computer screen is a complete joke. Anything KK, bubu, sybil, or duda writes here is just as "real" as what some alleged "witness" said.

[Clarice]

Maybe white sangria should be renamed?

[cboldt]

The debate between French and McCarty is over the difference between accusation/assertions (which need not be based on evidence, and as we see, are even allowed to be contradictory to reliably accurate evidence), and evidence. French is praising the accusations, McCarthy is saying "show me the evidence."

[AliceH]

Chubby@11:38 maybe [white hispanic] could even be the NAME of a new cocktail

I love this! But what would be in it?

[Clarice]

Is nro the most uninformative useless waste of time or what?

[cboldt]

Just rename the white russian, the white hispanic.

substitute tequila for vodka.

[Janet]

Where is this story?

"A muslim boy kills a black boy. MSM won't be covering this story. Doesn't fit the agenda."

[Some guy]

I would say the "accidentally” on purpose edited 911 call is the most egregious and pervasive myth.

It was played frequently on national television, was critical to the foundation it was a ‘lynching’ rather than a tragedy. NBC, nor anyone else has corrected it to a degree necessary to undue the damage.

[C Clemmons]

"I think Crump helped her memory, but try to prove it."

I don't think you need to be Clarence Darrow to make the GF or Martin clan look bad on cross examination.

Dad: "That definitely isn't Trayvon"
Mom: "That definitely is Trayvon"
Mom: "It was an accident"
Mom: "It was cold blooded murder"
GF: "I'm not xactly sure how Z cornered M in a suburban neighborhood"
GF: "Of course a short chubby hispanic can outrun a 6' 3" black football player"

[AliceH]

cbolt - that sounds utterly undrinkable.

[cboldt]

CNN Newsroom - March 20, 2012 - Crump Presser

Link to that transcript somebody mentioned above. Crump appears near the end of the transcript. By this time, ABC already had some audio of DeeDee, which causes me to think there was an earlier release, earlier by hours, via ABC.

[Chubby]

("the white hispanic")

... cool liberals' cocktail of choice du jour

[Bruce]

Do we know for sure what happened to the gun? Yesterday I happened to hear Hannity and a caller said that Zimmerman kept his gun. Hannity didn't challenge.

Last I knew the police had the gun, which makes sense that they would not give back a "murder" weapon, but rather keep it as evidence. If acquitted, or granted immunity, Zimmerman gets it back. Maybe not, if he is convicted. Others here know more about criminal procedure than I do.

[Chubby]

served with salt, to grind into society's wounds

[derwill]

It's been interesting to watch them tweak the narrative as the facts started to percolate through. Thus, white became white hispanic, no injuries became injuries not severe enough to warrant self defense, the Sanford police are racists became the Sanford police are slow and incompetent. Lately, Z's motivation for following M has morphed from racism to the lessor included charge of "profiling."

And now I sense a new tweak coming down the pike--the "slam dunk murder case" in already being changed to "Corey will have a hard time proving her case because of those bad, bad self-defense and SYG laws."

[John Meyer]

One of the most recent came on Greta Van Susteren's show April 11. Her 'legal panel' Ted & Bernie poo-pooed the po-po. They both made claims the gun used & Zimmerman's clothes were not collected as evidence. I notified Greta of the false info, but she chose to not correct it the next day. She also made no comment on whether the segment in question was merely an audition for MSNBC/NBC.

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/video/the-trayvon-martin-shooting-case-sound-off/

[John Meyer]

One of the most recent came on Greta Van Susteren's show April 11. Her 'legal panel' Ted & Bernie poo-pooed the po-po. They both made claims the gun used & Zimmerman's clothes were not collected as evidence. I notified Greta of the false info, but she chose to not correct it the next day. She also made no comment on whether the segment in question was merely an audition for MSNBC/NBC.

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/video/the-trayvon-martin-shooting-case-sound-off/

[Enlightened]

Everything Crump says is geared to inflame and is utter bullshit.

I'd like to include GZ "alleged" attorneys resignation presser which was rife with lies or mischaracterizations leading Crump to utter they are now scared GZ was about to flee- every media headline blared "Zimmerman is missing"

[Rob Crawford]

((white hispanic" seems worth a cocktail or two.))

maybe it could even be the NAME of a new cocktail

A White Russian made with tequila instead of vodka?

[jeannebodine]

What about the BS that Zimmerman's father is a judge? I have ever heard & seen that he is Supreme Court judge, I guess they're referring to Florida. Supposedly, this is why he got "off" without being charged in the first place.

[cboldt]

Here's part of the call log on Trayvon Martin's phone bill.

Entries for February 26th ...
* 6:30 pm calling North Dade 13 minutes long (T-Mobile-to-T-mobile)
* 6:41 pm incoming call 4 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
* 6:45 pm calling North Dade 5 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
* 6:46 pm calling North Dade 2 minutes long
* 6:49 pm incoming call 4 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
* 6:54 pm incoming call 18 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)
* 7:04 pm incoming call 1 minute long
* 7:12 pm incoming call 4 minutes long (T-mobile-to-T-mobile)

[DebinNC]

I hope the FL state bar censures those two bozos. GZ deserves reparations from both imo.

[MarkO]

"Her 'legal panel' Ted & Bernie poo-pooed the po-po." I saw this and watched Ted go totally racist. Greta also fully debased herself with a segment on her "good friend" Rosen. Unwatchable.

I've come to see the "affidavit" as setting out only the barest of actions of the State with the affirmation that the charge was done in "good faith." It wouldn't be cognizable in California Courts as a "declaration." My experiences in Florida State courts have been, well, interesting.

[narciso]

Well this piece corrects part of the record, they go by the boards on the fourth point,
a little 'subtext' is sometimes needed.

http://theweek.com/article/index/226354/the-trayvon-martin-case-4-things-the-media-got-wrong

[cboldt]

The pressure on DeeDee is immense. She's propping up Crump, Corey, the Martin family, etc. -- and if she was on the phone when the fight started, or say, 30 seconds before that, you KNOW that she knows how it went down. Snitches get stitches - DeeDee would get necklaced.

OTOH, DeeDee may be a sociopath. What is it, 1 of 25 humans has no conscience, something like that. They develop a high degree of skill at deception.

[narciso]

And this one mostly got it right, when Alvarez
and Robles couldn't or wouldn't;

http://theweek.com/article/index/226131/george-zimmerman-what-we-know-about-trayvon-martins-killer

[MarkO]

cbolt, it's truth versus evidence. Watch out for DeeDee.

[Clarice]

The story is that she as hospitalized for a couple of weeks after the incident. Was she? For what reason? Is she emotionally unstable?

[DebinNC]

Perhaps O'Mara can get court-ordered access to DeeDee's (I assume now-poofed) Facebook posts immediately after TM's death but pre-Crump coaching.

[windansea]

Just rename the white russian, the white hispanic.

substitute tequila for vodka.

Posted by: cboldt | April 14, 2012 at 11:52 AM

The Brave Bull is perfect for renaming to White Hispanic

2 oz "white" or silver tequila
1 oz kahlua (brown liquor from coffee)

[Clarice]

windansea , you always come thru for us on critical matters...

[narciso]

Angleton, was said by David Martin, to call it 'a wilderness of mirrors' in another context, OT, since I don't trust Roger Charles
as fasr as I could throw him, has Epstein, gone down the rabbit hole, one too many times;

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303299604577323843914377930.html

[cboldt]

-- The story is that she as hospitalized for a couple of weeks after the incident. Was she? For what reason? --

According to Crump and DeeDee's mother, DeeDee was hospitalized for one night, presumably the night of Feb 26th, but it could have been the night following Trayvon's funeral.

[Crump] further added that the friend, whose parents insist on her anonymity, has been deeply traumatized by the incident: "This was her really, really close personal friend. They were dating [...] She couldn't even go to his wake. She was so sick, her mother had to take her to the hospital, she spent the night in the hospital."

[DebinNC]

Ditto DeeDee's Twitter ("twits"?) and what about text messages? She needs to fear that any lies will be found out.

[GMax]

Somehow I am expecting to be totally underwhelmed by Dede. I think we get a brain dead teenager, that cant remember from deposition to testimony what she "heard" and what she said.

The jury is going to be watching her as the only evidence that the prosecutor has, that does not seem to support Zimmerman, so any weaknesses as a witness are going to be hugely magnified.

Of course if the judge tosses this as unadulterated crap, then she is spared the ordeal.

[geoffb]

It is my considered opinion that what got Trayvon Martin into the fateful and fatal confrontation is that he spent the time leading up to it on his cell phone with his "girlfriend". Even if the girl doesn't insinuate that you must confront, intimidate, beat someone who is giving you the eye, at 17 you will feel you have to do something or risk being called a p***y by her, her friends, and your male friends.

Without the phone call no one would know if you simply ran home. With it your whole world will know and so you must prevail and then using your cell phone camera document that you did so.

[DebinNC]

I agree, geoffb.

[cboldt]

Trayvon Martin, victim of fatal shooting, told girlfriend, "I think this dude is following - By Julia Dahl - March 20, 2012

(CBS) FT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - An attorney for Trayvon Martin's family played what he said was a recorded affidavit from Martin's girlfriend, who was on the phone with the 17-year-old when he was allegedly approached by neighborhood watch member George Zimmerman.

Much of the recording was inaudible when played Tuesday at a press conference in Florida, but attorney Benjamin Crump said that in it, Martin's girlfriend says that Martin told her "I think this dude is following me," minutes before he was shot by Zimmerman. ...

On the tweets, I wonder if there is any connection between what DeeDee heard, and the tweet of a cousin "RIP Trayvon, I know you beat him good" or similar.

[Daryl Herbert]

"As a third myth, the general notion seems to be that Martin was innocently headed for home. That was presumably true when he first caught Zimmerman's eye"

Should we presume that to be true? Isn't there video footage from the convenience store that shows when he left? We can compare that to his progress home to see if he was indeed headed straight home, or if he was wandering around casing houses, or otherwise up to no good.

[Ignatz]

--OTOH, DeeDee may be a sociopath. What is it, 1 of 25 humans has no conscience, something like that. They develop a high degree of skill at deception.--

Yeah, I've got one of those for a brother.
Characteristically their deceptions don't fare too well in court.
Their milieu is the arena of rumor and innuendo.
I'm sure some are great at it everywhere but don't think a teenage girl would fit in that category too easily.
[All jokes and anecdotes regarding dishonest teenage girls making fools of us all of course welcome]

[MarkO]

How is this not hearsay and inadmissible?

Martin's girlfriend says that Martin told her "I think this dude is following me,"

[DebinNC]

TM wouldn't have given DeeDee an "I'm scared" message. Instead, I bet he was entertaining her with a running commentary of the cat and mouse game he was playing with GZ, running from cover to cover but keeping GZ in sight at all times. It was fun, a little risky, but I don't think TM was ever frightened and certainly never gave any indication to DeeDee that he was.

[windansea]

windansea , you always come thru for us on critical matters...

Posted by: Clarice | April 14, 2012 at 12:41 PM

My experience in legal matters is miniscule compared to that of cocktails :)

[AliceH]

windansea: make it Tia Maria vs. Kahlua and I think you've got a winner.

[narciso]

The problem is they keep trying to put a square peg in a round hole, Zimmerman wasn't
racist, Martin wasn't an angel, the former was gainfully employed, but he took his duty
to the association, seriously, and in light
of the previous pattern of events,

[Clarice]

narciso, I think Epstein is right again actually.

[Rick Ballard]

Daryl,

The fact that T-mobile billed him for 45 out of the 42 minutes between 6:30 and 7:12 (for eight calls) appears to indicate that chattering was his primary activity. It also appears that attorneys have some say in T-mobile billing practices.

[bunkerbuster]

The Big Lie of Martin murder is that "we know Martin attacked Zimmerman."
There is zero, zip, zilch, nada evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

At the absolute most, we can say that a single, anonynmous, truncated, Foxerized witnesss statement is that the person "believes" he say a person wearing a red sweater underneath a person without one and that the person on top was beating the person on the bottom.
This merely means the witness "believes" he saw Martin winning the fight.
He didn't see Martin start the fight.|

He didn't see Martin start the fight.

He didn't see Martin start the fight.

No one, on record so far, saw Martin start the fight, so to say witnesses saw Martin attack Zimmerman is without foundation and invidiously mendacious.

[Caspar Weinburger]

Myth: there are no witnesses to before the shooting.
Myth: Zimmerman wasn't an 'official' neighbourhood watchman. He was just some self-appointed madman with a gun
Myth: he wasn't allowed to legally have a gun because of his assault charges.
Myth: that the voice for help on the 911 tape have been definitively determined by forensic analysis as Trayvon's.
Myth: George's injuries were not serious because he didn't go to the hospital.
Myth: if George had really been in fear for his life, then he wouldn't be able to walk around like he did on the police surveillance tape.
Myth: George must be a liar because Trayvon's corpse was on the grass but George said he was getting his head pounded into the concrete by Trayvon.
Myth: that George didn't have a broken nose because a doctor on CNN couldn't see it on enhanced surveillance tapes.
Myth: this isn't about self-defense.

Where does it stop? It's like the Energizer bunny of lies.

[GMax]

I did not add it up Rick, is that right? I did think when looking at that log, "damn he must have hung up to take call after call beeping in"

[cboldt]

-- How is [Martin's girlfriend says that Martin told her "I think this dude is following me,"] not hearsay and inadmissible? --

It might come in under an exception, since Trayvon is unavailable, but it can only be offered as what she heard, and not for the truth of being followed; and should be inadmissible.

The state gets to use hearsay at the Arthur hearing.

If you are the judge, and the state comes in with DeeDee who came forward more than 3 weeks after the incident, and several days after the police had made the 911 calls available to the public; and the defense comes forward with police witnesses of the scene and eyewitnesses on the scene, what do you go with?

I don't know the answer - but I think the law requires the state to put on a show that DeeDee's testimony is sufficient to obtain conviction.

[MarkO]

Unless DeeDee's testimony about TM's statements is offered for the truth of the matter, it is irrelevant. She could, however, claim to have heard Zimmerman say something. I fully expect that to happen.

[AMac78]

Another myth: That Trayvon was returning home that evening after buying Skittles and Arizona iced tea at the local convenience store, for his little brother.

This might or might not be true, as stated. It would have been easy enough to verify, but not a peep from Team Trayvon media.

That makes me wonder about the absence of a cash register receipt at the nearby 7-11, or possibly the presence of awkward surveillance video.

Fortunately for the team, with the passage of time, videos get overwritten, memories fade, and things get lost.

Maybe one of the less-devout reads these threads, and will chase down some of the myths discussed here. That'd be a restorative.

[Caspar Weinburger]

Bunkbuster

It is true no one knows who started the fight, but both DeeDee's and GZ's testimony state that Trayvon uttered the first words to GZ. Also, the witness, John, is one of two witnesses that saw the fight in progress before the gunshot. He spoke to Zimmerman while he was under Trayvon. He saw and heard him scream for help. If we take Trayvon's initiation of the conversation and John's testimony of Trayvon assaulting Zimmerman, we infer the more plausible conclusion that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman first. Of course that inference might be wrong, but we are dealing with probabilities, not certainties here. No one knows what really happened (except Zimmerman).

[Rick Ballard]

Gmax,

I made an error - it was actually 51 out of the 42 minutes. There are definitely attorneys involved in T-mobile billing practices.