Powered by TypePad

« Saturday Morning Open Thread | Main | The Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit - Hold The Cheers »

April 14, 2012

Comments

Clarice

The general rule on hearsay--and yes, there are many exceptions--is that when it's a close matter the trier of fact is supposed to determine whether it is more probative than prejudicial. Even taken Crump's version of the inaudible tape as true, it seems more prejudicial than probative as to the circumstances of the fight and killing. It ends with what she claims was a "push". I don't know how you can tell the sound of a push from a cell phone or who initiated it.

Clarice

*even takING Crump's version***

cboldt

-- It is true no one knows who started the fight --


If she was on the phone, I think DeeDee knows, and she is lying.


If she tells the truth, her peer group will kill her.

Rick Ballard

If the T-mobile billing records are correct, then Martin was on the phone with someone from 6:54 - 7:12 (the 7:04 incoming was either not answered or waiting). Zimmerman's call to the dispatcher began at 7:09:34 and lasted until 7:13:41.

Martin was so overcome with fear at the hulking brute pursuing him that he remained on the phone for his entire final adventure.

Tom Perkins

@AliceH

"- that sounds utterly undrinkable."

Do you mean that like this whole bodus controversy, it's hard to swallow?

Tom Perkins

bodus /= bogus

GMax

Rick

Let me spare Chatty Kathy a trip over this AM since she is no doubt distraught about the standing of Zero with the voters, and point out that just pointing that out is redolent with racism you racist. LOL

MarkO

I recall a judge finding a hearsay exception he called "The Interesting Exception." The testimony was interesting.

Chubby

this is old news but new to me. Matt Gutman of ABC claims to have a *recording* of the phone conversation between DeeDee and Trayvon. LUN is a tweet from Gutman stating that he is the only one who "has that recording". That must be the other tape that has been talked about by Hannity and others.

cboldt

Lawyer: Slain teen's girlfriend heard altercation - By Douglas Stanglin, USA TODAY

According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast." ...

Eventually he ran, she said, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the man was back, cornering Trayvon, she said.

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for?' and the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

Then the line went dead, she said.

Eventually Trayvon ran, but suddenly Zimmerman was back. The only way that makes sense is if Trayvon is running TOWARD Zimmerman.

Completely absent from DeeDee's account is an assertion that Trayvon's direction of movement is toward his alleged destination.

Rob Crawford

Guttman's been a lying prick since the beginning of the story -- why assume he's changed his stripes?

cboldt

-- Matt Gutman of ABC claims to have a *recording* of the phone conversation between DeeDee and Trayvon. --


What Gutman has is a recording of DeeDee's conversation / recorded affidavit with Crump.

geoffb

If the "girlfriend's" testimony is to be believed then someone should figure out her Twitter account name and look at what she tweeted in the minutes, hours, days, and weeks after the shooting and before she was disclosed by Crump. Also her phone log in the same time period should be examined by investigators and the persons called interviewed about the calls.

I would hope that this has already been done by both the police and whatever private investigators that the sides have hired.

Rob Crawford

Chubby -- one of the commenters at your LUN has figured it out, I think:

However, the article does not explicitly state that “the recording” is of the DeeDee/Trayvon call. Per s_dog, I now think that by “the call” and “the recording”, Gutman is referring to a recording that Crump made of a conversation between him and DeeDee wherein she recounted what was said during the (unrecorded) call between her and Trayvon.

Guttman was being cute with his description of what he has -- because he's been a part of the lynch mob from the beginning.

GMax

I am with Clarice on this one. Exactly what does a push sound like on a long distance cell phone call? And how does she know who pushed who.

How exactly would an "earwitness" determine that Trayvon was cornered?

Iquiring minds want to know.

AliceH

"Do you mean that like this whole bogus controversy, it's hard to swallow?"

Tom Perkins: That was certainly not my intent, but sometimes our metaphors are smarter than we are.

GMax

For KK, who pushed whom.

Inquiring

Sheesh

Comedy Gold

"Eventually he ran, she said, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the man was back, cornering Trayvon, she said."

- short hispanic outrunning 6'3" football player
- cornered where? a front lawn? sidewalk? cornered?


"Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell."

- the first shove could have been TM shoving the short hispanic
- so now the only way a headset falls off is when someone shoves you. i need that headset cause mine falls off with no one around.

Clarice

Maybe what she heard was her boyfriend punching GZ on the nose and TM's earbuds fell out as he was smacking GZ's head on the ground. Let's have Geraldo and Crump re-enact it and see if we can duplicate the sound she heard.

cboldt

-- How exactly would an "earwitness" determine that Trayvon was cornered? --


That would have to be Trayvon reporting that he's cornered.


If you are a mediocre yet open-minded investigator, you give DeeDee little weight for lots of reasons. She comes out late; she has the benefit of public investigative reports to guide her prepared story; she wasn't there; she's 'self-serving' biased for Travon's side. If you have DeeDee, and third party eyewitnesses, you try to reconstruct the incident w/o needing DeeDee's testimony. If hers is inconsistent, chalk it up to HER lies or error.


DeeDee is Corey's star witness!

Comedy Gold

How does DD explain the grass stains on Z's back, Z's bloody nose and Z's skull wounds?

DD's story sounds like to me that Treyvon didn't like someone asking him what he was doing in the area so he proceeded to pound the guy. Unfortunately for TM, Z was able to defend himself. The little guy had a little gun. Ooops.

Rob Crawford

How exactly would an "earwitness" determine that Trayvon was cornered?

Clearly by analysis of the echoes in the background noise!

Sheesh, doesn't anyone watch CSI: Miami?

(How soon until they do an episode "based" on this case? How long until there's a "Law and Order: SVU" episode "based" on it? A Lifetime channel movie?

Anyone want to speculate who gets to play Zimmerman? I have my guess.)

GMax

Corey has DeDe and Trayvon's mom, at least as far as to what she has put on the table so far.

Seems like weak tea to me, for a murder charge.

Wanna bet George's mom is put on the stand and says that is her boy, she would know it anywhere? Remember all of this has to be beyond a reasonable doubt, and I still fail to see any evidence of malice.

Jim,MtnViewCA,USA

"That makes me wonder about the absence of a cash register receipt at the nearby 7-11, or possibly the presence of awkward surveillance video."
Someone earlier reported hearing the 7-11 video had been secured by police, don't remember if this was "official" or rumor.

derwill

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for?' and the man said, 'What are you doing here?'

At which point if T had said, "I'm here staying with my Dad. He lives in that house right over there," or words to that effect he would probably still be alive today.

"Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

She might think she heard a push. Doesn't prove there really was one. The sound she thought was a push could have been Trayvon's fist connecting with Z's nose. Or it could have been the wind or the rain. And even if one person did push the other one, Trayvon's head set could just as easily have fallen off if he was the pusher rather than the pushee.

If the prosecution's entire case hangs on this, it's pathetic.

Ignatz

--Unless DeeDee's testimony about TM's statements is offered for the truth of the matter, it is irrelevant.--

That's what I thought, although I must admit to being frequently left in the dust when lawyers and judges start squabbling about hearsay and its applications.

GMax

If the prosecution's entire case hangs on this, it's pathetic.

Combine that with the charge of an undefined "profiling" claim and the odor of false prosecution starts to remind us of Mike Nifong. He lost his law license for his shenanigans.

cboldt

-- If the prosecution's entire case hangs on this, it's pathetic. --


The other hook is depraved mind for "profiling," getting out of his truck, calling Martin 'these assholes' and 'fucking punks,' and disregarding dispatch suggestion to not follow. Corey also invites you to assume that Zimmerman started the fight.

Reading Corey's affidavit, I'd subpoena the dispatcher for confirmation of conclusion Corey attributes to the dispatcher, that the dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin. Dispatch question was "Are you following?"


Clarice

There's every indication IIRC that he was following to give an address to the cops , not to shoot Trayvon--and that he stopped when the dispatcher suggested that following wasn't necessary.

GMax

Angels beating the stuffing out of the Yanquis at the moment...

Bob

I've read several places that Martin's telephone girlfriend REFUSED to talk to the police. She then talked to Crump who had her talk to the cops. The question there is why unless she did not want giving info on Martin until she was coached, edited and spun by Crump.

Rick Ballard

I believe there may well be another eyewitness. Scroll down to the first 911 call and listen to the man's voice between 17:16:40 and 17:16:57. ISTM that he is observing the struggle (the shot is fired at 17:16:56. The caller refers to "Jim" rather than "John".

I'd like to read his statement. The "get in here now" by the woman may indicate that he was standing on a balcony overlooking the incident.

Beasts of England

Ok, I'm a little late to the party - did someone get shot? What's all this about?

maryrose

If the girlfriend is all the prosecution has then this case isn't going anywhere. It sounds like a good judge will just throw it out. There is compelling evidence for self-defense and TM's desire to show off for his girl friend to prove how "gangsta" he could be. First, the suspension , then this altercation with GZ. Sounds like TM had a problem with authority figures telling him what to do.

Frau Regentropfen

"deranged and perverted trolls?"

You forgot "vulgar," Iggy.

cboldt

-- I've read several places that Martin's telephone girlfriend REFUSED to talk to the police. She then talked to Crump who had her talk to the cops. --


Tracy Martin saw the phone bill, and he put DeeDee and Crump in touch. Crump records a conversation with DeeDee, and Crump goes public. He asserts that this information will not be given to SPD, because Team Martin does not trust them to properly investigate. Crump says he will give the recording to the federal investigators.


Ii believe that the first any police or government investigator heard of DeeDee was after Crump told Matt Gutman, and arranged a big press release of the revelation.


I don't think DeeDee was presented to any Florida investigators until after Corey's team had been assembled.


Corey admits to having a "cozy" relationship with Team Martin.

Gus

Alice your WHITE-HISPANIC COCKTAIL chat is really OFF PUTTING.

TOUCHE.

A WHITE HISPANIC is ICED TEA WITH SKITTLES IN IT.

derwill

"The other hook is depraved mind for "profiling," getting out of his truck, calling Martin 'these assholes' and 'fucking punks,' and disregarding dispatch suggestion to not follow. Corey also invites you to assume that Zimmerman started the fight."

Good point.

But even if you were to concede (and I'm not saying one should) that Z was profiling and pursuing, eventually the two men came face to face. And thanks to Dee Dee, we have an earwitness:

T: Why are you following me?
Z: What are you doing here?

At which point T has the opportunity to defuse the situation by simply answering the question. Yeah, I can see being pissed at the question, maybe even answering with a, "None of your effing business." But if your answer is to punch the guy in the face, and then follow that up by beating his head into the sidewalk, wouldn't that change you from being the victim of the "crime" of profiling and pursuing, to the perpetrator of an assault and battery?

All the affidavit says is that a "struggle ensues." But at some point won't the State have to prove that Z threw the first punch? Or, er, "push". With all due respect to young Dee Dee, if all they've got is "somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell," they should be laughed out of court.

Porchlight

"Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

Is she even allowed to say she heard somebody pushing, or that the head set fell? She wasn't there - she can't say for certain whether someone was pushed or the head set fell. She only heard sounds.

On the stand can she her interpretations of the sounds, or can she only testify to the nature of the sounds?

Frau Kegelclub

Great idea, Chubby. I'm not offended.
Perhaps JiB can come up with the White Hispanic cocktail. You think it might be a rum drink but then again maybe not. This is where drinking genius comes in.
The Dude made certainly made White Russians popular again.

Gus

I've got tapes of Bigfoot wrestling the Loch Ness Monster.

cboldt

-- But if your answer is to punch the guy in the face, and then follow that up by beating his head into the sidewalk, wouldn't that change you from being the victim of the "crime" of profiling and pursuing, to the perpetrator of an assault and battery? --

Yes, it would.


Another scenario that some have postulated is that Martin knew Zimmerman was armed, or Zimmerman was brandishing. But if Zimmerman was brandishing, either defensively or offensively, one would expect the verbal exchange to include mention of that.


I don't believe Zimmerman was brandishing.

Beasts of England

As I've been assigned a crappy Spirograph thingy and no one responded to my extraordinarily lame attempt at humor, I'm holding my breath and vigorously stomping my feet. Can you, via the sound, tell which foot I first stomped and if I've yet to exhale?

Gus

"" disregarding dispatch suggestion to not follow ""

Care to cite any proof of this??

cboldt

-- On the stand can she her interpretations of the sounds, or can she only testify to the nature of the sounds? --


Only the sounds. She's a fact witness, and is not allowed to opine. Opining and weighing evidence is for the finder of fact (the jury); and for technical issues, an expert witness is allowed to render an opinion - but it is not binding on a jury.

Gus

Imagine TRAYVON going through the TSA GROPE DOWN at Orlando Airport. Oh dear, it would have been ugly.

Porchlight

He sure did, Frau.

Nye's Polonaise in Minneapolis is famous for their White Russians served up with a couple of hazelnuts floating on top. Yum. That was one fun bar back when it was slightly dingy and before it got ridiculously popular.

Comedy Gold

LUN is a youtube clip of
1: news crew interviewing witness "john" (red shirt guy on bottom during fight then on top after fight)
2: news summary of police feedback...including
- TMs dad said not his sons voice on tape

from macsmind

cboldt

-- Care to cite any proof of [" disregarding dispatch suggestion to not follow "] --


That's one of Corey's problem's. She making allegations that are not supported by evidence; and in this case, she's making an allegation that appears to be contradicted by the evidence.


However, just finished reading the wagist piece that has Zimmerman make it back to his truck, Martin paying a visit at the truck, running away a second time, and Zimmerman following a second time. If Zimmerman's statement includes that, and it might, then Zimmerman is following after dispatch says "We don't need you to do that" and after Zimmerman says "OK" in response.

narciso

If they were less blatant, it would be a 'Cuba Libre' or as we sardonically dubbed it,
'una mentirita' the little lie.

MarkO

Coached? I'm shocked, shocked to hear the witness might be coached. "What are you doing here?" is innocuous. "Stay here." "Don't move." "Hey, where are you going?" "Don't leave, you little punk." Those are not. Will her memory be refreshed?

Porchlight

Only the sounds. She's a fact witness, and is not allowed to opine.

Thanks cboldt, that's what I thought. I assume she can say she heard "a sound like someone being pushed" or is that also a no-no?


If she tells the truth, her peer group will kill her.

I agree.

Hey, maybe that's why she didn't come forward right after the shooting.

Frau Kegelclub

"This is where drinking genius comes in."

Thy name is windandsea!
I should have read to the end before posting

narciso

Tomato, tomatoe, this is what is being done to law and language;


http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2012/04/12/teaching-as-a-subversive-activity-the-theory-of-political-indoctrination/

PaulL

For me, there is only one TM, and he is Tom Maguire.

Porchlight

Hey, maybe that's why she didn't come forward right after the shooting.

Sorry, responding to myself here -

Maybe it was *DeeDee's* account of hearing Trayvon beating the carp out of George that spread around Trayvon's high school right after the shooting and inspired that tweet from a fellow student congratulating Trayvon for managing to administer a beating before getting shot. IIRC the details on that.

GMax

The practicality is she can say anything that is not objected to by the defense. Once its said, the jury can be instructed to ignor, but will they?

cboldt

-- I assume she can say she heard "a sound like someone being pushed" or is that also a no-no? --


What is the sound of being pushed? I think that sort of "observation" is more in the nature of speculation than just observation. If she got that out, there would surely be an objection - she'd be asked to just describe the sound, and the jury would be told that DeeDee's testimony about what caused the sound is to be disregarded.

derwill

"Will her memory be refreshed?"

Trouble is, the Defense will be able to impeach her testimony if it defers too much from what she said on the tape of that conversation with Crump. Then it will be up to the jury to decide which of her stories they want to believe. They can also chose not give too much weight to either one. It's not like she's an impartial witness.

chas

where's the 7-11 security video? i want to see the last images of sweet sweet trayvon before he went to be w/ Jesus. moreover i want proof that he was actually out to buy stuff and not roaming around looking for opportunities. everyone keeps talking about skittles and iced tea but what happened to them?

GMax

So because of that if she goes off on a flight of fancy, the defense will need to destroy her credibility with the jury. Make her look confused or worse.

The prosecutor will be needing some maalox, look what happened with Mama when they trotted her out on tv. She nearly blew up their whole case by opining it was an accident. The jury will no doubt hear her have to admit she said that on national tv.

Gus

Cboldt, if Martin and Zimmerman met at the truck, that changes everything. If Martin approached Zimmerman after their initial meet up, I think Zimmerman would have been wise to keep an eye on SLIMMM.

THERE WILL BE NO CONVICTION ON MURDER 2.

none.

Comedy Gold

"The jury will no doubt hear her have to admit she said that on national tv."

And then they will ask her who she spoke to between the "accident" claim and the "cold blooded murder" claim. Maybe a Mr. Crump. Oh the same person coaching DD.

GMax

Seems like the classic situation for a defense atty. Ms Fulton were you lying then or lying now...

Frau Kegelclub

Gus, your tea and skittles drink should be a Trayvon Shot, but his name has been trade-marked.
Seriously, however, if Zimmerman comes to harm at the hands of others, other than legal hands, it will be celebrated. That's not good for our post-racial president country, is it?

Frau Kegelclub

Isn't it a myth that Zimmerman was on patrol with his gun at the ready? I thought he was on the way to Target when he spotted the hoodied figure in the dark and rainy complex.

Bob

Maybe it was *DeeDee's* account of hearing Trayvon beating the carp out of George that spread around Trayvon's high school right after the shooting and inspired that tweet from a fellow student congratulating Trayvon for managing to administer a beating before getting shot. IIRC the details on that.

That is why DeeDee's tweets, Facebook, etc as well as Martin's should be part of the examination to cross examine Deedee. When did she know he was dead? What was she disseminating on her preferred social media before she knew he was dead? What were Martin's social media buds saying before they knew he was dead? After briefly looking at the tweets supposedly on Martin's twitter account there was one glaringly obvious conclusion and that is that he and his twitter friends had no discretion of any kind and directly tapped out whatever popped into their heads. If Corey did not consider or investigate this she will appear as clueless as I think she is. Some of this kids announce every time they take a dump.

Redbrow

A minor point but it illustrates intentional media manipulation:

"Trayvon was getting skittles for his little brother"
-cue photo of 11 year old Tray holding a toddler.

Trays brother was not there but Green's 14 year old son *may* have been - not even a half brother or step brother.

Frau Kegelclub

Gus, I once had your convictions about the outcome of a trial. I would not bet on this one at all.

cboldt

-- Cboldt, if Martin and Zimmerman met at the truck, that changes everything. If Martin approached Zimmerman after their initial meet up, I think Zimmerman would have been wise to keep an eye on SLIMMM. --


Well, it at least changes Martin from "scared" to "not scared," and maybe to "angry" or "annoyed." It also has Martin initiating contact - although, technically, maybe not initiating that final contact.


Take all of that, and you still have to deal with "altercation ensued." Given what we know about Zimmerman, and his adopted role, his age, that he's called and is expecting the police, etc.; and what we know about Martin - which one would have thrown the first punch? Is there any evidence that Zimmerman was punched?


Doubting that Trayvon threw the first punch is not reasonable.

Beasts of England

Puerile no more. Mea culpa.

Tangentially a media myth, but closely playing out as right versus left, instead of right versus wrong. A reach across the chasm by Prof. Dershowitz is reassuring, yet not unsurprising.

I'm particularly vexed by the derision that anyone concerned with the actual jurisprudence is eventually adjudged politically right-wing and then followed occasionally (when wrapped around the accuser's own non sequiturs) by a banal, and often broad, accusation of racism.

Wonderful blog Mr. Maguire, with a tremendous and incisive commentariat. I shall do my best to earn a seat at the table...

rse

**Important Propaganda ALERT on this case**

Red just texted me from work that a customer just came in wearing a hoodie.

Front says "My hoodie does not make me a criminal" with TM's picture. I asked and it's that 7th grade looking one that's so popular with the media.

Back of hoodie then says "I am Trayvon Martin".

It's also a bit too warm for a hoodie today so it's a clear out and about statement.

Talk about tainting a jury pool if the hustlers acn make these common.

Gus

Sounds like Trayvon was of "depraved mind" when he punched Zimmerman de la Peru.

cboldt

If Fulton can come in for voice recognition, then so can Zimmerman's relatives.


Since they cancel each other out, you have the eyewitness who saw and heard at the same time.


Problem solved.

cboldt

Italians off, off off

jimmyk

250 pound brute hunting down innocent elfin infant should be on the list.

That one was so pervasive that even one of the so-called "witnesses" (Mary Cutcher, the one KK and bubu love to cite) bought into it, describing TM in a TV interview as a "little boy" and "half the size" of GZ. She obviously never saw a damn thing and will be laughed off the stand if it ever gets that far.

cboldt

Maybe I have to turn them on then off off off

yeah that will happen

A thought about why DeeDee did not come forward with the news that she was talking to TM.
Would she know that TM was killed? It was a local case and they let GZ go. When did she find out that TM was dead. Could she have heard TM mouthing off to GZ, and heard the fight ensue and figured that TM nailed GZ. And as far as not hearing back from TM, could she have thought that maybe he was arrested and put in jail?
This could explain why she didn't say anything, She maybe heard the fight but not the gunshot. I would seriously be looking at her facebook or any other emails or texts or phone calls made in the next several days (weeks?)

jimmyk

italiacto!

yeah that will happen

Bob,
That was my thought, I was typing while you had already posted.

AliceH

Beasts of England@3:36 - well, leaving the italics tag on is one way to get attention, BoE! Welcome to the commentariat.

scott

I saw an interview with a former homicide detective who didn't feel it unusual for it to take several weeks to process the phone and numbers. It would be entered into evidence then they need a warrant for the billing to get the numbers then they have to tie the numbers to people. They wouldn't just pick up the phone, call the last number and say "This is homicide. Who's this?" which makes sense to me, they don't know who they're talking to. So I think Crump got to her while they were still going through the process.

cboldt

-- Would she know that TM was killed? It was a local case and they let GZ go. When did she find out that TM was dead. --


Well, she was too sick to go to the funeral, so she found out pretty soon after the incident.


-- Could she have heard TM mouthing off to GZ, and heard the fight ensue and figured that TM nailed GZ. --


I assume, if she was on the phone, she knows Martin was the aggressor. But she did know the ultimate outcome, if not that night, within a few days. I don't know if Tracy martin would have told her, etc., and I think that's a good line of inquiry. Did Fulton or Tracy reach out to DeeDee for mutual comfort purposes? Was she "part of the family?"


If I'm Corey, I'm not real hot on making DeeDee my star witness in a murder case.

Campesino

That's not good for our post-racial president country, is it?

=====================

At least now we know we have a White African American president!

But I really think a White Hispanic has to be some kind of rum drink

DrJ

off

chas

did the phone really go dead or did martin tell deedee "i gotta go beat down a cracker" and hang up?? i've dropped my HTC evo a time or three and its never dropped the call. a phone falling doesnt mean the call is disconnected.

Campesino

Also don't forget that red hot story about the armed white supremecists patrolling the streets of Sanford. That the police never saw

derwill

Actually, I wouldn't expect Dee Dee's testimony at trial to differ too much from what is already out there. One would hope that Corey would have enough integrity not to suborn perjury, but her character aside, she would be disbarred if she got caught at it. Dee Dee does not strike me as the brightest bulb in the box. Too much risk that she gets all twisted up on the stand and blurts out that she's changed her story because Miz Corey or Mr. Crump told her to.

Frau Richterangst

It's becoming more blatantly obvious that the left wants to yank Justitia's blindfold from her eyes and dispose of it. The Wise Latina (who can know more than a learned white man) and Patrick Bell's CRT editor are determined for two hundred years of accumulated judicial debt to be paid. Who is next in line for Obama to nominate?

Adjoran

Skittles and iced tea is a good place to start. There was no evidence of either at the scene, no wrapper, no receipt, no bag. The closest convenience store is just over a mile from Trayvon's Daddy's GF's house; an early report said they had no evidence of such a purchase in the time frame. The next closest is 2 miles away. It was raining and Trayvon is away from home, if he went to any store you would think it would be the closest.

It's either what Trayvon gave as his excuse for leaving the house, or just made up by Crump to make him seem more like a kid than a thug casing houses for his burglary business.

Contrary to Bubu, we do have evidence that Martin started the fight: Zimmerman's statement that he did. All the other evidence so far tends to confirm his account and none contradicts it in any way (the idiot woman who came out AFTER it was all over is not a witness to anything but her own hysteria).

Trayvon's Facebook page was taken down just after the first Crump presser, but before it was it was filled with post-mortem messages from friends. ALL of them expressed sorrow - "Miss you so much," and "can't believe you're gone" - and NONE expressed ANY sense of outrage or injustice in the least.

All the Facebook and Twitter posts by Trayvon, DeDe, and other of Trayvon's friends will be useful to the defense.

This is a manufactured charge which should be dismissed, if they can find a judge with enough courage. The mob is scary, and apparently unchecked by the authorities. How is it the NBPP leaders aren't in jail?

chas

White Hispanic:

2 oz gold rum
1 oz coffee liquer
light cream
optional: dash of pepper.

Bob

yeah that will happen,

Great minds and all. I am forever telling young people to watch what they put out on social media. It will bite you in the ass.

Beasts of England

Glad I have another 'mea culpa' handy. Off to an inauspicious start. In Italics, no less...

Threadkiller

Is DeeDee an identity Afro-American?

This may explain her reluctance to dial the police when she heard the beginnings of the altercation.

My understanding is that identify Afro-Americans perceive phone calls to the police as a threat. She probably thought TM would give her a savage beatdown, in self defense of course, had she made that call.

If only she knew he had met his "limit".

Comedy Gold

Based on that earlier video it looks like the incident occurred between a line of townhomes with a large area of grass between them and a side walk down the middle. So DD is saying the short hispanic "cornered" 6'3" TM in the middle of this large rectangular field of grass and her football hero did not know what to do to get away.

yeah that will happen

cbolt,
Yes she was too sick to go to the funeral. What if she had been spouting off about TM beating someone up and then finds out days later that TM was actually killed in this skuffle. That would certainly send a young girl over the top. I think she had no idea for at least a couple of days and was spreading the word that TM was a super macho gangsta.
I would really be checking her computer. I hope someone is

Belarus Bytes

I think it's significant that DeeDee was too sick to attend the funeral. I believe it is likely that when Trayvon told her about Zimmerman, she put the thought into his mind to confront him. Now she's feeling very guilty because she knows that her comments contributed to his death. That would explain why she was too emotionally distraught to attend the funeral and also why she said nothing for several weeks.

Beasts of England

AliceH@3:43 - Grazie!

derwill

I'm vexed by the same thing, Beasts of England. It's like if you want to see those hoary old principles of due process, habaes corpus, probable cause for an arrest, innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, preponderance of the evidence, the right to self-defense etc. adhered to by the State while it investigates the death of a black teen-ager, then that makes you a racist.

What I don't get is how they can't see that if you corrupt those principles in this one case simply in order to get "justice for Trayvon," then you have corrupted them for us all in the future. If the State gets away with lynching Zimmerman, today, then it can lynch Bubu and Dublindave and Sylvia tomorrow.

And the final kicker--even if it were that utter idiot Sylvia getting lynched tomorrow, we would be out there defending her from the mob. (Although we should also be forgiven for gloating just a little.)

Frau Richterangst

Be glad it was italics and not bold! Avoid downwind from the trolls, BoE.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame