Zimmerman And Koch

John Hinderaker of Powerline has a bad news/bad news post indicating that the insanity of our national media has taken a quantum leap upwards.

I wrote here about MSNBC’s campaign to tie the Koch brothers to George Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon Martin. That effort was, it is fair to say, insane, but it apparently inspired one or more liberals to take MSNBC’s theories a step farther. Someone wrote–I think it was on Facebook–that Koch Industries had paid for Zimmerman’s legal defense and/or put up his bail money. Other liberals happily repeated the claim, to the point where Snopes deemed it a rumor worth addressing.

The bad news is that CBS News wanted to recycle that allegation; the good news is that they troubled themselves to check with Koch Industries, leading to an email exchange reproduced by John.

His close:

Do you think that if I started an analogous, equally groundless rumor about Barack Obama on my Facebook page, CBS News would be on the phone to the White House, looking for confirmation so they can use my rumor in their broadcast? No, I don’t think so either.

That suggests an interesting question - does anyone have recent (or not-so-recent) examples of rumors that emerged from the right and eventually went mainstream?

Off-hand, the Swift-boating of Kerry percolated for months before it caught fire.  Jeremiah Wright was mentioned (by the Times!) a year before he became a national issue (at which point the Times went into the tank), and one might argue that it was only to resuscitate Team Hillary that Wright eventually got traction. Bill Ayers has received petulant, 'we're sorry to sully ourselves by reporting it and you by presenting it' coverage at best.

Is there anything from the right the media really leaped on with gusto? [A clarification - the PowerChallenge clearly speculated about "an analogous, equally groundless rumor"; the example sI suggested are hardly groundless, so I was making the gloomier point that even rumors with a good foundation get ignored.]

HOW SOON THEY FORGET!  myiq2xu and his memory is exponentially better as well - Anthony's weiner.

A CAUTIONARY TALE: Here is a minor example contradicting John - the lesson is that the media loves daffy right wing rumors it can easily debunk. Its the grounded ones that can't find traction.

Comments

[Melinda Romanoff]

I'd be willing to wager that if it happened at all, it would be sports related.

[Jane (Better a crate than a plate)]

Do you think that if I started an analogous, equally groundless rumor about Barack Obama on my Facebook page, CBS News would be on the phone to the White House, looking for confirmation so they can use my rumor in their broadcast?

Perhaps we should try: I heard that the secret service in Columbia was acting according to the president's orders in an attempt to create a diversion from the president's meeting with Hugo Chavez naked in the hot tub.

[Jane (Better a crate than a plate)]

Oh and they dined on chiwawa puppies.

[DebinNC]

They eagerly showcased the birther contingent.

[Cecil Turner]

"Quantum leap?" That's little, right?

But for industrial-strength crazy, see the twitter posse (H/T Insty).

[narciso]

The thing below the text;

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/us/politics/30swift.html

[narciso]

A curious modifier;

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/arts/television/21stan.html?ref=swiftboatveteransfortruth

[NK]

"....with gusto", no; closest thing was "e-mailgate" at CRU/EAU, when the warmistas were exposed talking amongst themselves and acknowledging that warming had stopped in 1998, and that Mann's "hockey stick" was a bunch of statistical baloney. And even then, most of the legacy media coverage was about who "stole" the emails.

[myiq2xu]

Is there anything from the right the media really leaped on with gusto?

Not since Obama became the media darling.

I say that as a Clinton Democrat.

[myiq2xu]

Oops - I forgot about Anthony's Weiner. Breitbart pushed it but it was mostly a self-immolation.

[myiq2xu]

BTW - Zimmerman got out of jail last night/early this am. He is wearing an ankle monitor.

[NK]

OK -- I'll buy Weinergate-- but Clinton Democrats have to admit, the Legacy Media had to cover that story once the NY Post made it daily fare. The Media couldn't let Murdock have that story to himself.

[NK]

OT-- Henry, are you concerned that Ann Althouse says Walker "will win by alot". My sense is that Althouse doesn't know much about the electorate, so her saying Walker will win troubles me.

[centralcal]

myiq: did you also see reported that the media published the license plate number of the vehicle he departed in?

U.S. media - public enemy #1.

[cboldt]

-- I forgot about Anthony's Weiner. --

If I understand the challenge, it's to identify a false rumor started by the right, that made it to prominence. Swifty's don't count, as their allegations are fact based; Weiner's weiner doesn't count, because he, well, did what he was alleged to have done.

[henry]

NK, Althouse was good for pics & vids of protestors. Her opinions reflect the Madison / Law School bubble world she lives in. Even though the two main D contenders (Falk & Barrett) are totally uninspiring and have no actual plans for the state (per the Journal Sentinal), this will be a close election as the temper tantrum plays out.

[cboldt]

OT, but an interesting piece of hindsight. LUN.

Speaking Monday on "CBS This Morning," Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, said that if he'd known the family felt the timing of the apology was wrong, it wouldn't have happened. O'Mara says Zimmerman simply wanted to reach out to the family.

[fdcol63]

"U.S. media - public enemy #1."

Yes, it is. Any effort to save America must start with correcting this problem.

[DebinNC]

Beck's exposure of Van Jones eventually became too big for the msm to ignore. At least I'd imagine the msm picked VJ's story up, since BO ejected him back in the halycon days before "green jobs/clean energy" was seen as the boondoggle it is.

[cboldt]

More detail at CBS. Quotations are attributed to O'Mara. LUN.

"My concern is, I didn't realize that the way [Martin's family] had responded to me was through a press conference where they said it was too late or not an appropriate time," O'Mara said.

"To be honest, had I known that - maybe had I seen the press conference - I'm not sure that we would have done it at the bond hearing, because the purpose of it truly was to get to the family and to respond directly to the family's request. Had I known or been told that that wasn't the time, it wouldn't have happened. So, I apologize for that.

"But certainly it wasn't necessary to get a bond. It is not usual that you have somebody get up at all in a bond hearing. We wouldn't have done it in this case." ...

"Now I'm going to leave it up to how the family wants to handle it," he told Erica Hill. "We had hoped for it to be private. It wasn't well communicated to me that this wasn't the time. I'm sure just an oversight, we're all quite busy. But certainly if [there's] something else the family believes is appropriate, I'm open to those suggestions."

Returning to the thread topic. Sorry for not fining some unsubstantiated righty rumor adopted by the press so it could sell more hot dogs and beer. Maybe "year of the shark" was a righty invention.

[DebinNC]

Oops. So we're looking for false rumors hurtful to the left and coming from the right, which the msm, at least initially, accepted and reported as true? Hmm...

[AliceH]

A good place to start would be looking at Snopes' entries for Obama. I clicked a few, but they tied back to sources I don't consider "on the right". That could be a challenge right there - deciding what sources count as right-wing equivalents to MSNBC (in raising a rumor). Anonymous email chain letters, I submit, don't qualify.

[DebinNC]

I saw that O'Mara segment this morning. He came across well. Neither anchors, Charlie Rose and female-unknown, hectored him or tried to mimic Crump's faux-outrage.

[AliceH]

DebinNC - no requirement to be reported as true - but that it was considered newsworthy enough to actually CHECK, and then report the determination.

[GMAX]

Who knew that the evil and corrupt Koch bros were so powerful? Are they omniscient as well?

[NK]

Rumors-- so far TomM came up with Swiftboat, and others came up with Van Jones, Weiner and Climategate. Those all started as 'rumors' I guess, but they all turned out to be true. Menaing, if you want a FALSE rumor to go viral in the Legacy Media, it has to hurt a conservative. That's just a fact.

[NK]

Henry-- thanks for the info on Althouse and the Wisc 'temper tantrum."

[Chubby]

afaik a lot of the malicious rumors about the character of Sarah Palin germinated with "righties", her being dumb, etc. The left would have done their part, but aided by the right, it gave the false characterizations more force.

[Clarice]

Santorum again attacks Zimmerman and takes the Crump version of events...stupid.

[Jane (Better a crate than a plate)]

O'Mara says Zimmerman simply wanted to reach out to the family.

O'Mara also said he called Crump's office twice to arrange a time in private and Crump refused to return his call.

So this is all on Crump as far as I'm concerned.

[Sue]

rse,

If you are around, here is our local paper's coverage of Sgt. Tanner Higgins. Here is a facebook page started by his classmates.

[Chubby]

I'm very glad and relieved that Santorum is not going to be the candidate, and I pray to God he is not picked to run for veep.

[Danube of Thought]

Minus 19 at Raz today.

Trails Romney by 3.

[bunkerbuster]

um, there was this reporter named Judith Miller and these things called WMD...
Help me here, I seem to recall more than 4,000 beautiful American men and women and hundreds of thousands of beautiful Iraqis lost their lives over that rumor the press repeated as if it were fact.
Likewise the absurd notion that Saddam Hussein had some links to Al Qaeda were repeated across the press for many months and years in some quarters, before being eventually batted down by the encroachment of reality.
I suppose that's small beer next to the Red Scare myths rife in the media right up until the USSR collapsed under the weight of it's own contradictions.
The "missile gap" with the Russians was total BS propaganda lapped up by the media, as was the entire Gulf of Tonkin "incident" that start the Vietnam war, itself an occasion for extensive right-wing mythmaking hand-in-glove with the mainstream media.
The mainstream media was the last to find out when the Soviet Union couldn't even field enough military resources to keep it's own country under control. It all came as a "surprise" to our mythmaking scribes.
Likewise when the Reagan administration and its conservative allies in Congress were illegally sending suitcases stuffed with cash to Pakistan's intelligence service so that they could give it to the Islamic terrorists who eventually attacked us on 9/11, the press dutifully portrayed the fiasco as a proud victory for democracy over communism. The press even went along with the idea that the operation was "covert."
Examples abound, large and small.
Al Gore never said he invented the Internet. Jimmy Carter never used the word "malaise" when describing the state of the union or anything else about the U.S.
"Reaganomics" produced unemployment on pace to match that produced by the credit meltdown brought on by Clinton/Bush financial deregulation and Bush/Greenspan credit easing. But the lapdog press presented "Reaganomics" as a growth miracle and dubbed Reagan himself "The Great Communicator," even though he couldn't even remember what to forget about sending missiles to Iran in exchange for a hostage release.
Sorry, but the press plays right along with right-wing myths whenever and wherever it's convenient to. History abounds with examples...

[MarkO]

Bubu, which of those were Republican myths?

[Extraneus]

I didn't watch the video, but did O'Mara ever use the word "apology" for what Zimmerman told the parents?

[myiq2xu]

Sorry, but the press plays right along with right-wing myths whenever and wherever it's convenient to. History abounds with examples...

I agree. The media hated Clinton, Gore and Kerry, but somewhere between 2004 and 2008 they switched sides. The question is when will they switch back?

[Extraneus]

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

[Extraneus]

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

[Extraneus]

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

[Extraneus]

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

[Extraneus]

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

[Rob Crawford]

was the entire Gulf of Tonkin "incident" that start the Vietnam war

Damn that right-wing Republican Lyndon Johnson!

Buub, you're an idiot. That comment will go down in history as the single longest walk down your own crank ever in the history of man.

[Extraneus]

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

[NK]

Interesting news report out of Tallahassee 3 weeks ago. 64 yo woman indicted for 2d degree murder for shooting a man she had 'taken into' her home. He was beating her in her own kitchen, she grabbed a .22 handgun from the counter (does everybody in Fla have an immediately available handgun?)and shot him... twice. No witnesses. More than 3 years later, the Court grants her Immunity. The local Prosecutor indicted for Murder 2, and opposed Immunity saying:"The problem is the gun that was used was a single action revolver. In order to fire it, it's gotta be hammer cocked, pull the trigger. Hammer cocked, pull the trigger, prosecutor Jon Fuchs argued. "It takes deliberate steps." So in tallahassee the prosecutor indicts 61 year women for cocking and pulling the trigger twice to defend against a man beating he. In Jacksonville, Corey indicts for Murder2 a minor who was the subject of a premeditated attacked and shoots 3 assailants to defend himself and a seriously injured friend with a handgun he was unlawfully carrying. I have not found the Jacksonville decision from Judge Soud denying Seay Immunity; the media quoted Judge Soud as saying it was a 'razor-thin' decision -- the fact that Seay was unlawfully in possession does not automatically bar Immunity. Doesn't seem so. According to new reports, SYG Immunity is developing alot of case decisions and the case decisions seem to all be fact based; it does not seem like the appellate courts have developed 'bright line' tests instucting trial judges where Immunity
should and should not be granted. the Florida prosecutors really don't seem to care, they seem to indict and let the case proceed in court. If anybody has a case cite to a Florida appeals court Immunity ruling, I'd love to see it. here's the link to the tallahassee Immunity decision:

http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/80750267.html

[Rob Crawford]

Can anyone imagine the amount of oxygen deprivation it takes to get a brain to buub's level?

[Extraneus]

Imagine if Bush had it in him to shove those quotes down their throats, or someplace more appropriate? (There are many more, as we all know, but I'll try to resist posting them.)

[Chubby]

poor bubu doesn't realize that the very press that he says ran with those "rumors" is the very same press that fed him all his objections to those "rumors".

[rse]

Oh sue. Now I have teared up again. And a brother about to start RASP which is what RIP is now called. I am sure his memories of his brother will get him through that awful 2nd week when they average about 5 hours sleep over the course of a week.

On topic-anytime I read what are in essence blueprints for political or economic or social change, there is virtually always a part where the authors candidly describe what their strategy is to make sure the media pushes their desired point of view and themes.

Yesterday I learned UNESCO has established a Model Curricula for Journalism Education. Charming, huh?

[Threadkiller]

"They eagerly showcased the birther contingent."

Wrong. The birther narrative started with the left (Hillary Clinton in 2007) and continued to get traction from the left. No high level conservative initiated the topic for years.

Leftist reporters would ask for their opinions on the certificate all the time, on hopes of making it look like it was a topic of the right. Palin, Pawlenty, Perry, Bachmann, and even Trump were led to the subject. That is fact.

The first prominent conservative to touch the subject is Joe Arpaio. That has received a media blackout, not a showcase.

Well, not a positive showcase. Glenn Beck trashed Arpaio, O'reilly says Arpaio is wrong and he bases it off of his gut feeling. Townhall scrubbed a column that shed a neutral light on the subject. Forbes did the same type of scrubbing. And the effeminate NRO decided to call Arpaio names and make the claim that the online cert is valid. Obama's own lawyer recently refused to make that same claim in court.

Here is NRO's gay version of research.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/292780/conspiracy-again-editors

The only thing I get from their version of "viral" is sick, while at the same time, the MFM gets a perfect hard-on.

[bunkerbuster]

Indeed, many Democrats bought into the myth of WMD and many of them even voted with Republicans to go to war over it, catastrophically.
But that doesn't change the fact that it was a myth and the media lapped it right up.
As for Johnson, he was responding directly to conservatives who were demanding U.S. militarism as a response to Soviet militarism. If Rob knew anything about the history of that era, he would understand that. As it is, he somehow suggests that the decision to go to war in Vietnam was the work of liberals. lol...

[bunkerbuster]

it's hilarious that some wingnuts are apparently convinced that comments by Democrats saying Saddam had WMD somehow change the fact that Bush lied to sell Americans on invading Iraq.
Sure, Democrats went along with him, but they didn't do the lying and, surely, wouldn't have were it not for the conservative bloodlust for an invasion...

[DebinNC]

Ex, I don't remember O'Mara characterizing GZ's statement other than generally, as a sincere effort to speak to "the family". I don't remember hearing him use specifics like "Trayvon" "Martin" "Fulton" "apology" "sorry" "GZ regrets" or "condolences".

[rse]

NK-as someone who kept a .22 pistol in her nightstand drawer for years while I was single and living alone, I was told by my dad that it was not a high enough calibre to stop someone necessarily and to only use as a last resort.

First was to make it to the shotgun in the closet as soon as I heard something odd so I could simply point it and suggest leaving immediately.

Really? A .22? You have to be lucky for it to be lethal. Of course she shot twice. Once was unlikely to stop him.

[NK]

Two Things- "Birthers" that story only went viral in the Legacy Media to MOCK the right, not to question 'Bam's eligibility. That is standard anti-right stuff from the media, does not answer TM's question.

Clinton Admin WMD-- c'mon everybody knows Clinton never really believed the WMD, he just went on and on about the WMD to 'wag the dog' and distract from the impeachment vote by bombing Iraq in Op Desert Fox.... wait!?

[Chubby]

((the fact that Bush lied to sell Americans on invading Iraq.))

hahahahaha! that is something you would not be regurgitating were you not a automaton programmed by the left wing media to spout their journolist memes

[Extraneus]

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

[Extraneus]

Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

[NK]

rse-- don't look at me. The quote about cocking and pulling the trigger twice was Prosecutor Fuchs' explanation of why she was indicted for Murder 2 and why the State opposed Immunity. If these news reports are accurate, SYG is not having the effect of creating prompt consistent Immunity rulings.

[Jack is Back!]

NK,

Yep, most everyone I know, in my little community, has a firearm, either in the house or carries.

How about this case where the Florida Court of Appeals ordered an Immunity hearing. This case got wide attention in Florida for a while.

[jwest]

Bubu, Don’t you realize that your idol, Barack, is headed towards the same situation Bush faced in Iraq with the nuclear situation in Iran?

In a few months his CIA director is going to tell him it’s a “slam dunk” that Iran is on the verge of having enough highly enriched material to make a bomb. He’ll confirm it with British, Israeli, French and German intelligence and then have to make a decision to either allow an Israeli strike or join in on the fun.

As a U.S. President, sworn to protect the country, he would need to err on the side of caution and pull the trigger.

[Jack is Back!]

BuBu,

Indeed, many Democrats bought into the myth of WMD

It wasn't a myth to the Kurds in the north and Iranians on the southern front.

Now go change your diaper, put on some Tanda Zap and stay away from the Pepsi.

[Rob Crawford]

poor bubu doesn't realize that the very press that he says ran with those "rumors" is the very same press that fed him all his objections to those "rumors".

You wonder what he would do if he realized he's just a sock-puppet for far-left talking points and not a conscious, thinking person.

[NK]

JiB--Many thanks for that link. It appears from that article that the only guidance from the Fla Sup Court thus far is that SYG Immunity can be invoked in a pre-trial motion, so the defendant does not have to wait until trial to raise SYG (that wasn't clear in the Statute?) The Fort Lauderdale area prosecutor has only declined to prosecute 3 times based on the SYG Immunity statute,and the Prosecutor's office acknowledges that prosecutors and Judges are working through the law. I thought this quote from your link was interesting: "The State Attorney's Office did not comment on the specifics of the Wonder case. Office spokesman Ron Ishoy said prosecutors have declined to prosecute three homicide suspects based on the Stand Your Ground argument.
"It's too soon to judge the entire impact of the law until it's been applied over several years," Ishoy said. "As of now, it's just another mixed question of law and fact that has to be decided."

'mixed question of law and fact" sounds like the prosecutors and courts treat it case by case. Isn't SYG designed to give law abiding citizens consistent expectations of when they can defend themselves and avoid case by case vagueries?

[Captain Hate]

afaik a lot of the malicious rumors about the character of Sarah Palin germinated with "righties", her being dumb, etc. The left would have done their part, but aided by the right, it gave the false characterizations more force.

I'm glad you put "righties" in quotes because that's all on Rove and his ilk.

[iqvoice]

Bubu, did you miss the date-stamps on all those prominent Dem quotes? Follow the timeline! The Dems lied to Bush! Bush was led to war by the lies of the Democrats!

Hahah. Admit it, that would be your talking point if it had been Bush '96 and Clinton 2000.

[Rob Crawford]

Really? A .22? You have to be lucky for it to be lethal. Of course she shot twice. Once was unlikely to stop him.

Lucky or just place the shot well, and a .22 is easier to place the shot well, because there's nearly no recoil.

And, heck, with a Ruger Mark III, if you can't take them down in 10 shots, you can beat them to death with it. The barrel's a 1" thick solid bar with a .22" hole in the middle...

[Rob Crawford]

It wasn't a myth to the Kurds in the north and Iranians on the southern front.

As if a lefty gives a rat's ass about them.

[El Bango]

"she grabbed a .22 handgun from the counter (does everybody in Fla have an immediately available handgun?)"

That's funny. But it would make me think twice before robbing someone in FL. I'd think I'd move to where is it safer for criminals...e.g. NYC, Chicago. I wouldn't want to worry about victims having the ability to defend themselves.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

instapundit posts comments from a fellow who asks why there is no media frenzy over Obama-bundler J Corzine.

how bout we all chip in and buy him a bumper sticker :)
http://www.cafepress.com/+the_media_not_even_pretending_to_be_unbiased_anymo,315329078

[bgates]

Hey iq0.5xme -

The media hated Clinton, Gore and Kerry

For more on the media's hatred of Clinton/Gore, tune in to "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" on ABC, hear Paul Begala and James Carville on CNN, endure Chelsea Clinton on NBC, or join the other person who watches CurrentTV.

[Jane (Better a crate than a plate)]

The media hated Clinton, Gore and Kerry

I disagree. The media loved Clinton and Gore and tolerated Kerry. The difference was that in those days the media still thought they had a duty to report stuff. They actually thought it was their job.

Somewhere in the democrat primary of 2008 those boys from Chicago convinced them that only a racist would think his job was to report actual facts. And it's only gotten worse since then.

These days the media doesn't even pretend that it cares about facts.

[NK]

Well I have never planned a robbery, so I can't say if it is more risky in Orlando or Chicago. But that reminds of something Judge Lester said at the Bond hearing when he was about to recite his ruling: he referred to the benefit of there being alot of criminal cases in Fla and thus there is a developed custom and practice on things like Bond rulings in Murder 2 cases. JiB and other Floridians, is violent crime a major issue in Florida at this point?

[bgates]

And if you want to know how the media felt about Kerry, use the term "swiftboating" to describe their own stories, and try to explain that you meant it as a compliment.

[Captain Hate]

hundreds of thousands of beautiful Iraqis lost their lives

Who knew that only beauty seeking bullets and bombs were used? Military technology: Destroying troll minds one tiny cell at a time.

[Rick Ballard]

RSE,

It will be interesting to see which NGO's succumb in the Great OPM Famine. The Bundesbank is firing warning shots over the heads of the French electorate at the moment. If the French are dumb enough to fire Sarkozy and hire Hollande, then the end of EUtopia will be close enough to touch. They are well beyond the last exit now and there isn't room to turn around.

[NK]

Back in the day when I started becoming a Rightwinger thanks to the increasing Leftwing bias of the MSM, the MSM was about 80% Dem and 20% Repub. That was 22 years ago; what is it now? 98% Dem-0% Repub, 2% DK?

[Chubby]

((Isn't SYG designed to give law abiding citizens consistent expectations of when they can defend themselves and avoid case by case vagueries?))

I've been wondering if the prosecutors could use SYG as justification for T's attack on Z.

[NK]

RickB-- if France kicks Sarkozy to the curb, the new socialists would push for more ECB QE, more Euro printing, less 'austerity'. does frau Merkel then announce the "New Mark" and say goodbye to the Euro?

[bgates]

Hey busty, why no comment about George Zimmerman? Did you read about that bond hearing?

Would you like to change your opinion on the case to "A Republican governor appointed a Republican special prosecutor to overrule local PD and try to railroad a Hispanic man despite the fact the State had no case"?

[babygiraffes]

I can think of one: the rumor that John Edwards was having an affair. Oh wait, that was the NYT story that John McCain was having an affair. They spiked the Edwards storyand went with the thinly sourced McCain story. I wonder what the difference in those 2 stories was? Besides that one was true and the other was false.

[JeffC]

if "Swift-boating" means telling the truth then you should continue to use the term ...

otherwise you should refrain from it as it is intened to imply a smear by the MSM ... it wasn't a smear ...

[El Bango]

"Well I have never planned a robbery, so I can't say if it is more risky in Orlando or Chicago."

The risk of a robber getting shot by a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry weapon in Chicago is 0.

[Rob Crawford]

Can anyone explain to me the presence of Dave Swindle on PJMedia? He's an early-twenties journalism degree holder; he's accomplished nothing of note, yet they've given him a permanent presence on their site.

And all he does is clutch his pearls at the "violence" in video games, like a latter-day Tipper Gore, and then deny that's what he's doing.

[Chubby]

((Only Democrats))

you do know that Z is a Democrat, right? and conservatives are saying: innocent till proven guilty

[Extraneus]

Click for full size.

[Rob Crawford]

Dana, you really shouldn't talk -- you've called for the reimposition of slavery.

And called the people who disagreed with you "heartless" and "greedy".

[cboldt]

-- If these news reports are accurate, SYG is not having the effect of creating prompt consistent Immunity rulings. --

A complete accounting will include the homicides ruled justified by the police, where the police determination (no probable cause) was upheld by the prosecutor (no charge).

In a different category, recall the case of the Armenian, arrested by police, not charged by Corey.

The Seay case was "razor thin" because three eyewitnesses testified that the victim was retreating when shot, and the shooter's statement has him claiming to have shot into the air, that is, not shooting at an attacker. The shooter's statement cuts against his having fear of imminent serious harm; and the eyewitnesses accounts likewise cut against the shooter being at risk.

[Danube of Thought]

Hey buubmeister! Welcome back! Been feeling a little ill since the bond hearing, have we?

Btoken nose...bloody scalp...broken nose...bloody scalp...broken nose...bloody scalp...broken nose...bloody scalp...

[Danube of Thought]

"As for Johnson, he was responding directly to conservatives..."

Right. Those conservatives had all the leverage after the '64 election.

Broken nose...bloody scalp...

[iconoclast]

And, heck, with a Ruger Mark III, if you can't take them down in 10 shots, you can beat them to death with it.

I would rather beat an intruder to death with a Mark III than shoot the $&*^# thing. If you ever cleaned one of those beasts, you will know what I mean...

[cboldt]

-- Isn't SYG designed to give law abiding citizens consistent expectations of when they can defend themselves and avoid case by case vagueries? --

Yes, it is. But it cannot guard against a rouge prosecutor. The law is pretty clear, and other that extending the right to stand ground outside one's home and vehicle, and granting statutory immunity, is the same as common law and criminal law self defense. If you are reasonably in fear of serious injury, you are allowed to use deadly force in self defense. The pre-trial standards of proof are probable cause at the stage of arrest, and preponderance of the evidence if the defendant is charged.

[Rob Crawford]

You're a fickle bunch. so as soon as he
makes a public statement you find offensive, he'll be persona non grata.

We won't lynch him or send him to work camps, though.

Which puts us far ahead of the left.

[Rob Crawford]

I would rather beat an intruder to death with a Mark III than shoot the $&*^# thing. If you ever cleaned one of those beasts, you will know what I mean...

Yep.

I have a dowel and a rawhide hammer in my cleaning kit just for that purpose.

[DebinNC]

Traveling over the weekend and missed the post-bond hearing news. Did any outlet show or report Judge Lester's question to Gilbreath re how close the gun was to TM when fired? Unless I missed it or it happened during a commercial break, that pivotal moment was absent from the CNN transcript I read. I'd like to know if any msm outlet reported that Judge Lester posed the question, not simply the news that Gilbreath admitted on the stand it was close range and left gs residue and stippling. IIRC, that's the only question to a witness Judge Lester asked, and it was a doozy, so the msm's failure to include Lester's question in the news account would be another example of bias imo.

[Thomas Collins]

The falseness of the charges against the Duke lacrosse players was something gradually and tepidly addressed by MSM. However, this involved not only "right" leaning bloggers, but also proudly left leaning bloggers at TalkLeft and Durham in Wonderland.

[cboldt]

-- Did any outlet show or report Judge Lester's question to Gilbreath re how close the gun was to TM when fired? --

Not that I am aware of. Are you sure the Judge posed the question, and not O'Mara? How/where did you come across an account of Judge Lester asking how close the gun was to TM when it was fired?

[NK]

cboldt-- I don't know for a fact why Judge Soud described his ruling as 'razor thin.' Someone yesterday said I didn't know what I was talking about because Immunity was forfeited by Seay because he had an unlawful handgun, and thus he used deadly force during a criminal act (unlawful possession). apparently, there is no appellate decision automatically barring SYG if possession of the gun was unlawful, but the shooter was otherwise in a lawful place behaving lawfully. Hence Judge Soud had to agonize over the facts in Seay's case (he shot 3 guys, kind of in the back? Seay wants immunity?). So the more people at JOM bring up news reports of Immunity cases in Fla, it seems the law has wound up right back at the 'case by case' totality of the circumstances 'self-defense' common law and statutes that STY was supposed to organize and make consistent. Some law enforcement think tank will go through all the data someday and decide if SYD made a diference in exonerating lawful self-defense, but as of now Fla. Prosecutors still have wide latitude and proceed in charging almost as if Immunity does not exist. Just my opinion from reading news accounts.

[Janet]

(("U.S. media - public enemy #1."))

Amen, amen, & amen....

[bgates]

is violent crime a major issue in Florida at this point?

I used to call Orlando "The City of Lights", because the odds of seeing a cop car lit up when I left the house were about one in three. Census data from 2006 has us ranked 4th for violent crimes (murder, rape, robbery, assault) with 712 per 100,000 population vs a national average of 474.

It feels higher to me at the moment because of those two high school kids whose bodies were set on fire after they were killed last week. Still no word on whether the President reached out to the family of the victim who shared his skin color. He probably wants to do this one by the book, and make sure they arrest a suspect of impeccably European ancestry.