Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit Described

[Alan Dershowitz on the affidavit: "This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge”; "irresponsible"; "an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection".]

[Jeralyn Merritt: Affidavit = FAIL.  "That a judge signed off on this... is perplexing, to say the least".]

The Orlando Sentinel described the arrest affidavit for George Zimmerman [available here]; we note a lack of self-confidence from the prosecution, which switches to the passive voice at a crucial moment in the action:

In the two-page document, prosecutors offer little new information about the shooting.

However, they said in the affidavit that "Zimmerman confronted Martin," an apparent contradiction of Zimmerman's version of the events that led to the shooting.

The document says Trayvon's mother identified the screams for help heard in a 911 call as those of her son. It also reveals that investigators interviewed a "friend" of Trayvon's who was talking to him in the leadup to the shooting.

Based on the description, it appears the friend was the girl described by Martin family attorneys as his girlfriend.

"During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening," the affidavit said. "The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why."

Martin tried to run home, the affidavit says, but was followed by Zimmerman. "Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin."

The affidavit goes on to say that "Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher" who told him to stop, and "continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home."

Zimmerman, the affidavit says, "confronted Martin and a struggle ensued."

According to the affidavit: "Trayvon Martin's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin's. Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest."

That is a prosecution document and certainly represents one theory of the case. The defense will challenge many of those points, as we know.

I especially like the passive voice at the critical plot point: "...a struggle ensued".  Those pesky struggles, ensuing like that! One might have thought the prosecution would at least argue that Zimmerman initiated the struggle, in addition to the verbal confrontation.

A minor puzzle is this - from the Miami Herald:

Corey declined to discuss in detail how the investigation was carried out, but her statements shed some light on how the prosecution team reached the decision on a second-degree murder charge. She said the decision was made last week, and prosecutors used the arrest warrant an investigator had sought early in the case.

If - IF! - the affidavit described above is the arrest warrant mentioned by the Herald, then how did it come to include the details from the cellphone girlfriend? She was brought forward by Martin family attorney Ben Crump after the release of the 911 calls and was originally only going to talk to the Federal investigators [my skepticism about the circumstances of her emergence is here].

The obvious guess is that she (i.e., Mr. Crump) changed her mind and talked to the state investigators, who used her story to update the base affidavit.

Just as a reminder of how little seems to have changed, here is the Orlando Sentinel from Apr 2:

Some news agencies have reported that Sanford's lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger's office put a stop to it. The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.

Police did that night prepare an incident report that lists "manslaughter" as the possible crime being investigated, but in every case in which an officer prepares an incident report, he or she fills in that spot with some crime and statute number to allow the agency to properly report crime statistics to the FBI.

Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, [sidelined police chief] Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."

Numbers add up to nothing.

The defense counsel thinks his client has a better chance in a court of law than in the court of public opinion:

After Zimmerman exited, O'Mara asked the judge to seal documents in the court file containing other information -- including witness statements and information.

"I am seeking on my clients behalf... that we do a complete sealing of that record," O'Mara said, adding that the sealing would be temporary. The judge agreed.

After the hearing, prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda asked reporters gathered outside for patience.

"In the rule of law, we have jury trials for a purpose," De La Rionda said. O'Mara echoed that sentiment.

"It really, truly, it works," O'Mara said of the judicial system, telling reporters that in a case of this profile, if it doesn't work, "you'll tell us."

O'Mara said it made more sense to forgo a bond hearing at this point, electing to give time to allow the fervor surrounding the case to die down. He said his client is in protective custody.

If the publicity dies down the pressure on the prosecutor to showboat may diminish, if that is what is happening here.  And it might work - a Kardashian is bound to do something daft any day now, yes?

I do remember (perhaps incorrectly) that the Duke defense team scuttled the prosecution and kept the case out of court by leaking exculpatory material to the press. But I seem to recall leaks from both sides there.

THAT ALLEGED RACIAL EPITHET: Mrk Levin just read the affidavit on his radio show.  If I heard him correctly, the alleged epithet mumbled by Zimmerman on the 911 call was "Effing pukes". But the copy provided by 'TJ6' seems to say "punks".  Does Levin need glasses, or do I need a hearing aid?  Not exclusive possibilities.

THE GIST:

The map is not friendly to the notion that Zimmerman overtook an urgently fleeing Martin.  Zimmerman was behind him and his detination in front.  Martin doubling back makes a lot more sense in explaining how they met.

As to Martin being scared, let's keep in mind - when the young lady was telling this story Zimmerman was believed to be 250 pounds, based on his 2005 police report.

Now the Times has him down to 170. So the 6'3" 150 lbs Martin was fleeing from the 5'9" 170 lb. Zimmerman?  How scared was he?  So scared that doubling back makes no sense?

I can believe that Zimmerman seemed ominous when parked inside his SUV.  Once he stepped outside he became the Incredible Shrinking Threat.

THE RACE CARD, SLYLY: The affidavit claims that Zimmerman "profiled" Martin but does not describe the profiling.  Walking from patio to patio rather than sticking to the sidewalk?  Peering into windows?  Being black?  No guts at all.

If
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/12/v-fullstory/2744193/george-zimmerman-charged-with.html#storylink=cpy

 

Comments

[anonymouss]

Tom,

Ben Crump approached DeeDee around about 3/17 or later. The question arising from that: how did DeeDee remember what was said in the conversation? Also, why didn't she go to police in the first place?

[Richard Aubrey]

Was Lee "suspended"? IIRC, the reports were that he voluntarily stepped down, iirc for the duration.

[TJ6]

Affivadit

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

[MarkO]

"However, they said in the affidavit that 'Zimmerman confronted Martin,'"

Is there a witness for this fact or is it the important conclusion from the SP that would permit her to charge him? Who could be this witness? I doubt there is one.

[casualobserver]

The arrest affidavit sounds like it was written using nothing more than the arguments circulated on the blogs by the pro-Martin side starting around March 10th. It is pretty amazing to think there is no "value-added" after 3-4 weeks of "special investigation".

[Clarice]

About the affidavit:Maestro to the tune of "Sunshine Smilin' at Me"

B.S. staring at me
Nothing but B.S. do I see.
Never saw carp so handily typed
Never saw tripe packaged so tight

[Sue]

"The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn't know why."

And instead of calling 911, he stayed on the phone with his girlfriend. No point in calling daddy to step outside. Daddy wasn't home.

[cboldt]

The Serino affidavit is a separate document. It has not been freed yet.

[cboldt]

-- Is there a witness for this fact --

Much of the narrative is from DeeDee. She's recounting what she infers from hearing events through a telephone.

[jwest]

The first thing the defense council should do is ask the judge to order a clarification of the words the prosecutor used in the affidavit.

He should ask that the word “run” be defined. Does “run” mean casually stroll? Does it mean walk with purpose? Could it be that the prosecutor meant “jog”? Surely, it can’t be the common usage of to quickly move from one position to another at the limits of one’s ability. Such an esteemed team of investigators certainly could have calculated the distance and time involved and compared it to the 911 tape times.

The best defense of a politically inspired charge is public embarrassment of the prosecutor.

[Sue]

On Fox today, they were playing the 911 call from Zimmerman. The description was listen to him breathing and the wind noise on the phone. He is also talking very low. The implication being he was lying to the 911 operator about stopping his pursuit.

[JeffC]

a telephone witness ? yeah, that will hold up in court ...

[lyle]

Not bad, Clarice. Willie would be proud.

[MarkO]

From the affidavit: “Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle.” Wow. The NYT says witnesses heard nothing. But, what was the argument? What of the witnesses who saw Martin on Zimmerman bashing his head? Is it ethical to obtain an arrest by withholding pertinent evidence? Is it legal?

[Threadkiller]

Does the affidavit detail the influence Trayvon's skin color had on Big Z's decision-making?

[casualobserver]

cbolt, I'm confused....do police investigators prepare "affidavits" or do they simply prepare "reports"? The "Serino affidavit" sounds like he felt he needed to append some additional rebuttal to the official police report?

[lyle]

Except I think the song title is Blue Skies Smilin' At Me.

[myiq2xu]

There couldn't have been much running. The shooting took place 70 yards from where Trayvon was staying. It was about 25 yards from Zimmerman's truck.

[cboldt]

The affidavit is thin (cough cough) on what had to be Zimmerman's account while he was on the ground. Even if all the stuff in this affidavit is true, Z still has a claim of self defense if M has Z immobilized and is beating on him.

In fact, the question of self defense turns on the last 15-60 seconds of M's life; not on the 3 minutes that preceded Z being on his back.

[Clarice]

Interesting the Serino affidavit is still undisclosed but unless he lied or the newspaper TM quoted above did, there is no contrary evidence the SP found that undermines Serino's belief there is no probable cause to prosecute GZ for 2d degree murder.Nothing that Corey has said suggests she turned up a single piece of new, dispositive evidence to support the charge.

[Porchlight]

One might have thought the prosecution would at least argue that Zimmerman initiated the struggle, in addition to the verbal confrontation.

Maybe they didn't argue it because they knew it wasn't true - so adopted the passive "a struggle ensued" instead.

Obvious, I know - as is the rest of this railroad job.

[Porchlight]

The arrest affidavit sounds like it was written using nothing more than the arguments circulated on the blogs by the pro-Martin side starting around March 10th.

It does, and Corey in her presser sounded like that's exactly where she got her information, too. Plus a little NBC watching for flavor.

[jim]

Trayvon was hiding in the back yard common area for at least three minutes when Zimmerman appears.(based on The call to the dispatcher.) The fight took place near the entrance to the back yard area. Trayvon approached Zimmerman. How else could the happen there? The girlfriend is lying and has probably been coached. She must have heard most of the verbal altercation. (If you take into account the time of her last call to TM and the accounts of the neighbors hearing two angry voices.)

[cboldt]

-- The "Serino affidavit" sounds like he felt he needed to append some additional rebuttal to the official police report? --

The Serino affidavit appears in a report by Matt Gutman of ABC. Gutman reports that Serino wanted to charge and arrest Z the night of Feb 26; and documented his rationale in a filing with the state attorney. We don;t know if the Serino affidavit is a perfunctory "could be manslaughter, here are the sworn facts" cover letter; or if Serino had substantive doubts about what parts of Z's account were false, and documented those details.

The news reports are contradictory as Mcguire points out. Serino characterized Z as the best witness, and none of the other evidence contradicted Z's account.

[Clarice]

lyle, you're right. Once again my memory failed me.

[lyle]

The only missing aspect of this sordid tragedy is if Zimmerman had been cheating on his wife. Oh, wait. That's never an issue if he's a Dem.

[Rob Crawford]

In fact, the question of self defense turns on the last 15-60 seconds of M's life; not on the 3 minutes that preceded Z being on his back.

It did in other Florida cases, but this is a special case, for a special prosecutor who has a special relationship with the parents of a special child.

[narciso]

I've seen more impressive guesswork from Sean Spencer on Psych, the forensic exam proved he shot him, well stipulated your honor, But I somehow expected more, too much CSI and NCIS
I guess.

[derwill]

Something tells me that when a judge hears the motion to dismiss on the grounds of self-defense, a whole lot of attention is going to focus on "a struggle ensued."

Especially in light of that other Florida case where a judge found that pursuing someone doesn't negate a claim of self-defense, if the one being pursued turns around and physically attacks the one doing the pursuing.

[lyle]

No problem, Clarice. Your parody lyrics still reveal lively sense of humor. And rhythm.

[cboldt]

-- do police investigators prepare "affidavits" or do they simply prepare "reports"? --

Both. An affidavit could be a sworn statements of what they heard a witness say, or that they obtained a statement from a witness, etc. A report could be like the initial police report , or pages with photos, or an analysis of forensic evidence, etc.

[boris]

A contrarian possibility is that the charges reflect what the TrayM community is sure really happened and brought by the top gun friendly advocate of their POV. They are getting exactly what they "say" they want.

Unless the public information available so far is completely bogus these fantasy facts will be knocked down by the system in the most credible fashion possible under the circumstances.

[Rob Crawford]

So, wait, is "a struggle ensued" step 2 in the Underpants Gnomes' plan for world domination?

[Csnyder]

A legal question - does the defense get the opportunity to depose the telephone witness, Dee Dee, before the affirmative defense hearing?

And what a waste of all TM's hard work trying to nail down the audio forensics. All the prosecutor has to do is call Trayvon's mother to the stand as an expert witness.

[Fenderdeluxe]

Love the blog, yoo're all very entertaining, informative and clever. Am a long time reader. I normally agree with jist of things around here but in this case I do have a question. I get that the case is thin... about the political winds, etc. Having siad that, here's the thing - are we as a society really going to allow something like this to happen where a neighborhood watch member is out with a gun, he sees something, follows up on it, somebody ends up dead and he's ultimately just sent home? Are we really going to not enforece rule sets to that degree?

[cboldt]

-- Interesting the Serino affidavit is still undisclosed but unless he lied or the newspaper TM quoted above did, there is no contrary evidence the SP found that undermines Serino's belief there is no probable cause to prosecute GZ for 2d degree murder.Nothing that Corey has said suggests she turned up a single piece of new, dispositive evidence to support the charge. --

Oh, contraire. Corey has picked up two new witnesses. DeeDee, and Trayvon's mother. These witnesses are not part of Serino's analysis. DeeDee was unknown to the police until after Crump announced her.

All Corey has to do is substitute DeeDee's testimony for that of eyewitnesses who saw Z taking a beating, assert that Z acted in contravention of dispatch suggestions, and voila - reversal of fate.

[Fenderdeluxe]

Sorry about the typos! Long day...

[DebinNC]

Today's courtroom pic is rather interesting as GZ looks to be standing between his sheriff's deputy twin brother and the TM-sized O'Mara.

[chas]

@Fenderdeluxe

its much better to let a man get his brains beat out on the sidewalk because he was looking out for his neighbors in an area taht has experienced a rash of burglaries.

go away little concern troll.

[cboldt]

-- does the defense get the opportunity to depose the telephone witness, Dee Dee, before the affirmative defense hearing? --

Yes. DeeDee is going to be put under the spotlight.

She first articulated her testimony AFTER the 911 calls were made public by the town of Sanford.

[MarkO]

"Are we really going to not enforece rule sets to that degree?" What rule are we supposedly waiving by questioning this set of "facts."

[myiq2xu]

There is a difference between pursuing and following.

Was GZ trying to catch/confront TM or merely keep him in sight until the police arrived?

There is another question as to the confrontation:

If GZ saw TM and asked him "What are you doing here?" that alone would not justify TM hitting GZ.

[Appalled]

They have phone records to verify that Trayvon Martin was calling the girlfriend, and I guess they can coordinate some of what Zimmerman said to the call to the girlfriend.

The idea that Zimmerman is stalking Martin gives credence to the idea that he initiated the conflict, or engaged in conduct that a reasonable person would have seen would result in death.

[chas]

deedee first came forward w/ her "version" about 20 days after it happened. her credibility will be for crap. and wouldnt there be a hearsay issue w/ it also?

[Fenderdeluxe]

@chas - Geeze, thanks for the troll comment. Come on, I'm not trolling. No, I don't think you can get your head caved in either, looking our for your neighbors. I get it. I'm just asking an honest question about how we can expect something like this to happen and there be no consequences. How can that sit well?

[cboldt]

-- are we as a society really going to allow something like this to happen where a neighborhood watch member is out with a gun, he sees something, follows up on it, somebody ends up dead and he's ultimately just sent home? --

That's one of those "it depends" things. Not that it happened here, but if 5 eyewitnesses all see the watchman get jumped, and only when it appears he's done for does he defend himself, what do think? Jail the watchman for a few months to sort things out?

And so what if he's in his own neighborhood - what if it's a jogger in somebody else's neighborhood who gets jumped?

What it it's just a homeowner who hears something outside his door, but ventures two doors down to further investigate, knowing your house next door is inhabited only by your two children and a babysitter, while you are out at dinner and a movie?

[MarkO]

Florida permits the deposition of all witnesses in a criminal proceeding. Shouldn't the Feds do the same? They and most states do not.

Isn't that odd. Depose everyone in a civil suit, rely on the prosecutor to give you some drab of "disclosure" in a murder or perjury case? Shameful.

[lyle]

I don't think Fenderdeluxe (great nom de net, BTW) is a troll. Many of the regulars here have posed the same question re the larger societal issues of concealed carry, self-defense, and the various state statutes regarding when/if one can legally use violent force against another citizen.

[cboldt]

-- They have phone records to verify that Trayvon Martin was calling the girlfriend --

The phone records show that DeeDee called M.\ at 7:12. Not that who originated the call matters any, that I can figure.

[Clarice]

Dee Dee has no first hand knowledge of what happened in the critical last minutes. GZ said he had iven up following Trayvon and was trying to get an address to give the copes. Trayvon's mother's voice i.d. will neer make t to a jury in a real court.

That's the only "new evidence" in Cory's quiver.

[Rob Crawford]

Having siad that, here's the thing - are we as a society really going to allow something like this to happen where a neighborhood watch member is out with a gun, he sees something, follows up on it, somebody ends up dead and he's ultimately just sent home?

Sure, why not, when the evidence backs up his claim it was self defense, that he was attacked and had to protect himself?

And you really need to keep up -- he was on the way to the store, not on patrol.

[narciso]

So they include testimony in the affidavit that would inadmissible in court, and then
they leak it, hence poisoning the jury pool
a little more,

[Joan]

About the screaming on the tape...wonder if the noise on the tape is "screaming"? Or are there words?

This case is troubling.

[Appalled]

cboldt:

What matters is that there is evidence independent of her word that they were talking. I hiope to heaven they also have indications thst she is relating the conversation truthfully.

[NO_LIMIT_NIGGA]

Having siad that, here's the thing - are we as a society really going to allow something like this to happen where a neighborhood watch member is out with a gun, he sees something, follows up on it, someone assaults him while he's returning to his vehicle to wait for police to arrive, he's knocked him to the ground, a bystander witnesses his attacker repeatedly slamming his head into the ground and calls 911 for help, the attacker tries to grab the neighborhood watch guy's weapon, somebody ends up dead and he's ultimately just sent home?

The comment system here can be a little tricky sometimes, fenderdeluxe. Looks like it ate the bolded portion of your rhetorical question.

[derwill]

Fenderdeluxe.

I don't think Z "was just sent home". He was questioned at the scene, then put in handcuffs and brought to the police station and interviewed. They also conducted a police investigation at the scene to determine what had happened. Witnesses were interviewed, probably photographs were taken, although I don't know that for a fact. At one point during the investigation, apparently one of the police suggested to the DA that a charge of manslaughter should be filed, but the DA declined, presumably because he didn't believe he could make a case for that in a court of law.

Isn't that how it should work? A lot of time the cops are pretty certain they know who done it, and the DA thinks the cops are probably right, but they don't take the case to trial unless they're pretty confident they can win it, because double jeopardy attaches if they lose.

[Rob Crawford]

Are we really going to not enforece rule sets to that degree?

Fenderdeluxe, do you know what the rules are for using lethal force to defend yourself?

There's no publicly available evidence that Zimmerman broke any rules; the prosecutor is purposefully ignoring some laws and half the evidence available to gin up a case.

[MarkO]

narc, you are rapidly grasping the malevolence of the criminal "justice" system. Add a dash of overwhelming force.

[Clarice]

(Sorry about the excessive typos even for me--A new medicine for a pinched nerve is making it even harder for me to type accurately and proofread--Bear with me please until my body adjusts or I throw the stuff out and just live in agony.)

[Rob Crawford]

She first articulated her testimony AFTER the 911 calls were made public by the town of Sanford.

As I recall, her statement bolstered much of what Zimmerman said.

[cboldt]

-- deedee first came forward w/ her "version" about 20 days after it happened. her credibility will be for crap. and wouldnt there be a hearsay issue w/ it also? --

DeeDee can testify as to what she heard.

Inferences can be struck as speculation.

E.g., she can testify, "I heard Z say 'I'm going to hit you'," that is not hearsay. But, she cannot testify that Z hit M, because she did not see that.

[lyle]

So, narc. Does this mean she's continuing to try the case in the media? Wait, I think I know...

[Clarice]

Appalled, for a long time I'e been trying to figure out how your thinking process works, and today I confess it's a mystery I cannot hope to crack.

[Sue]

cboldt,

Can she testify she heard someone being hit?

[Rob Crawford]

I'm just asking an honest question about how we can expect something like this to happen and there be no consequences. How can that sit well?

You really think there would be no consequences, even if there were no prosecution?

[Clarice]

She said he dropped the phone or some such and she heard nothing after he said he was walking not running away.

[Csnyder]

Thank you, cbolt. I thought so, but just wasn't sure if that had to wait until it was definitely going to trial.

I'm interested in hearing her explaination of why she waited almost three weeks to come forward with information of the phone call. I think the attorney said she was distraught, and had to be hospitalized. Which of course then begs the question - shouldn't her parents, or the physician who admitted her to the hospital have informed the police about this evidence?

[JeremyR]

While it's obvious that this was a political driven prosecution, reading that does really explain why our jails are full of people (many innocent).

Rather than trying to find the truth, prosecutors simply try to convict someone, regardless of the evidence.

[cboldt]

-- As I recall, her statement bolstered much of what Zimmerman said. --

DeeDee's statement corresponded with Z's that M asked the first question, that M initiated verbal contact. The words exchanged were radically different, but in all accounts, M initiated the verbal contact.

-- Can she testify she heard someone being hit? --

Yes, she is a first hand witness to what she heard.

[lyle]

I'm just asking an honest question about how we can expect something like this to happen and there be no consequences.

No consequences? Would like to rephrase your question?

[Sue]

If Dee Dee is who the prosecution is hanging its hat on, it might be a short trial. This is the person who was so distraught she couldn't attend her boyfriend's funeral and apparently told no one she was on the phone with him moments before he died. It's just weird.

[lyle]

That would be: Would *you* like to rephrase the question?

[chas]

-- Can she testify she heard someone being hit? --

Yes, she is a first hand witness to what she heard.

taht can be impeached pretty easily though. what does a punch sound like over a phone? how can she be certain it was a punch and how can she know who punched who?

[narciso]

If you're sending someone up for 25 to life, there better be some real evidence, Corey trying to remove the primary sources from the record, also sets my spidey sense tingling.

[Appalled]

Clarice:

Appalled, for a long time I'e been trying to figure out how your thinking process works, and today I confess it's a mystery I cannot hope to crack.

You and my wife have something in common, then.

In this case, my thought process is to look for what information is missing, and whether it is too substantial to make a judgement one way or the other. Like NK, I am also looking for inconsistancies. I am slos trying to figure out, in this case, why the prosecutor thinks certain information is impportant, and proves their case.

I agree with folks that the affadavit is thin. I do not know whether this is standard or not.

[cboldt]

-- I'm interested in hearing her explaination of why she waited almost three weeks to come forward with information of the phone call. I think the attorney said she was distraught, and had to be hospitalized. Which of course then begs the question - shouldn't her parents, or the physician who admitted her to the hospital have informed the police about this evidence? --

Crump and DeeDee's mom both reported that DeeDee had to be hospitalized over the incident. DeeDee did not go to M's funeral. The treating physician probably had no clue that DeeDee was any sort of witness, nor would he have any reason to think or assume that she hadn't been forthcoming already. His job is to treat the patient's medical condition.

DeeDee's failure to present herself is troublesome for DeeDee. Especially if she heard an account of things going down that is unfavorable to M. There is that twitter message from somebody else (cousin?) high-5'ing M for giving Z a beat down before getting shot, and the cousin had to hear about the beat down from somewhere.

Same sort of question with DeeDee's parents, good point. Keep in mind they are in Miami, and the killing took place a couple hours away - but still, it would be proper to let the authorities know.

I have a feeling DeeDee is going to find herself in uncomfortable water, and that she'll eventually sink the state's case.

[MarkO]

In large measure, the criminal system processes defendants. It is designed to dispose of the matters efficiently but not necessarily fairly. In the Federal system, the US Attorney almost never tries a case that is not a slam dunk. He is able so to do because of the vast wealth and power of the government arrayed against an individual.

[cboldt]

-- taht can be impeached pretty easily though. what does a punch sound like over a phone? how can she be certain it was a punch and how can she know who punched who? --

I agree, the testimony of "I heard a punch" is probably worthless as to who started it, but it could be useful to establish timing (if timing is an issue to corroborate or impeach another witness's testimony).

[Clarice]

Me, too, cboldt.

[cboldt]

-- Corey trying to remove the primary sources from the record, also sets my spidey sense tingling. --

Those are in the file that was sealed today. The affidavit is a sort of "cover letter" from the prosecutor to the judge.

[Fenderdeluxe]

I hear you all, I really do. There's just something about this that just isn't... right. And I admit that I am not up on this to the degree that many of the rest of you are - especially Tom.

@lyle - thanks!
@derwil - I see it that way as well, re: the process.
@NO LIMIT - perhaps, but I'm not quite certain that it happened exactly like that... but again I'm not the expert on this.
@lyle - legal, have-to-defend-yourself consequences
@Rob Crawford - very well may be ginned up as you described. It's just that when he follows Martin... at night...

[cboldt]

-- She said he dropped the phone or some such and she heard nothing after he said he was walking not running away. --

DeeDee's recorded affidavit, as reported by Crump, has her hearing "Are you following me" and Z's response, followed by what sounds like a shove then the line goes dead (earpiece leaves M's ear - speculates DeeDee). The inference being that DeeDee is an earwitness to the start of the final altercation, about 60-80 seconds before the firearm is discharged.

[East Bay Jay]

I don't think the gf's testimony helps for all the reasons cited in other comments. Anything she says that incriminates GZ can be dismissed with the simple question: if you heard this and later found out that GZ was let go, why didn't you speak up at that point? Witnesses that came to the party after Sharpton came to town are similarly diminished.

I don't see how this goes to trial. The Martin family will not want to go through discovery. I don't know if TM was slipping away or just sowing some youthful oats and had a bright future. The former will be easier to believe however.

[PDinDetroit]

The barely containable giddiness of the Special Prosecutor is really bugging me today...

[Rick Ballard]

"Corey trying to remove the primary sources from the record"

Narciso,

She's gonna have to censor the Wiki. The PD calls are there as are the Responding Officers' Initial Reports.

Corey, IMO, is standing firmly on a steaming pile of horseshit wrt the affidavit. If she thinks the possible timeline conflicts are sufficient to go after Zimmerman she has to present Martin as a scared cripple, unable to cover 50 yards in 10 minutes as he fled from the ravenous racist pursuer coming after him with a rope in one hand and a smoking pistol in the other.

She needs a jury as dumb as the voters who have allowed her to retain office.

[DebinNC]

One facet I haven't seen reported is how dangerous a place is Marvin Gardens where Trayvon was raised, and how his experience growing up there may have influenced TM's perception of GZ's pursuit of him.

[cboldt]

-- The barely containable giddiness of the Special Prosecutor is really bugging me today... --

She has a good track record of success. The judges give prosecutors every benefit of the doubt, etc. BUT, she's got a capable adversary, and she probably has some huge blind spots. This is her day in the sun.

[Rob Crawford]

It's just that when he follows Martin... at night...

Where's the crime there? What felony am I committing if I walk the same path someone walked previously? What, in particular, have I done that makes it acceptable for them to attack me?

There's no evidence (that we know) that Zimmerman ran after Martin or grabbed him. The affidavit doesn't sound like there's any evidence available to the prosecutors that disagrees with that -- "a struggle ensued" is meaningless.

Could Martin have been afraid? Sure -- so he should have either called 911, or made his way home. He could have dealt calmly and respectfully with Zimmerman. Instead he chose to attack, and he ended up putting an armed man in fear for his life -- with predictable results.

And why should there be "legal, have-to-defend-yourself consequences" when you've broken no laws?

[Clarice]

cboldt, surely, that says nothing..surely she cannot tell from that who shoved whom..

[Enlightened]

Unfortunately the Martins as coached by their mouthpiece Crump have played their hand -

We have heard more than once that they just want an "arrest", they don't need a "conviction" but now they do want it to "go all the way", and then it was just an "accident" but now it was an "accident" that the two men met up...

Gawd. I feel their pain, I really do - coming from someone that has lost a few family members within the last year - it hurts and hurts bad. But I'm even sadder to see them being handled.

[Clarice]

Appalled, I don't think these affidavits necessarily are very detailed, but given Fla law and the attention given this case and its history one would have expected something in it disposing of the Self Defense claim and evidence.Instead we have only a one sided document with no indication the SP ever considered the conflicting evidence.

[Rob Crawford]

Enlightened -- they volunteered for this circus by contact a lawyer known to be a ringmaster.

And the trademark filing killed any sympathy I had for them beyond "yes, it's sad your son is dead".

[cboldt]

-- The affidavit doesn't sound like there's any evidence available to the prosecutors that disagrees with that ... --

The affidavit has Z follow M, Z confront M, struggle ensue. Then, within the struggle, eyewitnesses to struggle, call for help by M (per M's mother interpretation of 911 call), Z shoots M in the chest.

[cboldt]

-- cboldt, surely, that says nothing..surely she cannot tell from that who shoved whom.. --

Agreed. I was just placing the time of the call at the start of the last fight, rather than wherever it was that you'd put it (I forget already ... ROTFL)

[cboldt]

-- Instead we have only a one sided document with no indication the SP ever considered the conflicting evidence. --

We don't have any analysis of why Corey chose one account over the other, but she had to have seen all the accounts. She's dismissed Zimmerman's as false, a lie.

[derwill]

I think Z made a mistake that night following M, especially after the dispatcher warned him not to and told him that the police were on the way. I don't think that mistake alone warrants going to prison for life for 2nd degree murder. Maybe some lessor charge perhaps, I don't know . . . but 2nd degree seems way too extreme, and I think that charge was brought for purely political reasons, to placate the mob, and I find that sickening.

I think M. made a mistake typical of many 17 year olds, especially ones seeped in gangsta culture thinking that he was a tough dude who could take down the man following him. That mistake had tragic consequences for him and for his family and loved ones, because the man turned out to have a gun.

[Rob Crawford]

cboldt -- the affidavit doesn't cite any evidence to support that recounting of events; it's clearly just a fever-dream version of Zimmerman's statement. Corey intentionally ignored all evidence that argues for self-defense.

Yeah, she's a prosecutor, but ISTR that the original prosecutor DID look at all the evidence, and didn't think there was enough to over come the claim of self defense.

[daddy]

BBC News just reported on TV on the Zimmerman booking. It played GZ responding to the Judge booking him with a "Yes Sir", then said that that was the first time we had heard from George Zimmerman since hearing the tapes. Then BBC played the audio tapes of Zimmerman saying "He’s got his hands in his waist band. And he’s a black male."

No Impression given to the listener that GZ had previously been asked by the dispatcher about TM's race. At least the BBC did not doctor the tape like NBC etc, but the same impression was left by deciding to play a later portion of the tape, without the earlier queries by the Dispatcher.

[Rob Crawford]

She's dismissed Zimmerman's as false, a lie.

And at this point, we have not seen evidence to support her conclusion. Sure, she doesn't *have* to provide it yet -- but I think she's playing with a different fire by playing to the lynch mob.

[bunkerbuster]

What's the prosecution going to do with the hair and blood samples the cops collected from the sidewalk?
What? No samples??
Wait. The wingonarrative is that the cops carefully paced through what happened with Zim explaining it all to them. When they get to the part where his head is being beaten on the sidewalk, they ask him, exactly where was your head being beaten against the sidewalk. Then they test that part of the sidewalk for hair and blood.
What? No such test?
No hair? No blood?
What about pieces of sidewalk on Zim's head?
If this evidence doesn't exist, I'll be fascinated to learn why it doesn't.
Meanwhile, I note the commenters here are still in denial of the eyewitness who saw Zimmerman on top of Martin. Sad...