Zimmerman Trial - Evidence Ex Machina, Or Not?

Observers of the opening of the case against George Zimmerman routinely note that their views are based on the publicly available information. The general presumption is that the prosecutor has more, including high tech forensics reports, that may put Zimmerman's self-defense claim in a new light.

But what if this is as good as it gets?  Today's Miami Herald is, well, surprising:

Corey declined to discuss in detail how the investigation was carried out, but her statements shed some light on how the prosecution team reached the decision on a second-degree murder charge. She said the decision was made last week, and prosecutors used the arrest warrant an investigator had sought early in the case.

Her investigators made several trips to the scene of the shooting, retrieving evidence from Sanford police and re-interviewing witnesses in the neighborhood.

“A lot of the witnesses had already made statements in public even before we took over the case,” she said. “A thorough review of all of the statements was done.”

Last month, Corey told The Herald that her investigators would be looking at a wide range of evidence, including the gun used by Zimmerman and the clothes he was wearing the night of the shooting. She said 911 tapes — in which someone is heard screaming for help before the fatal gunshot — would be “critical” and would be analyzed.

The Sanford Police and Zimmerman’s former attorneys had said that when all the evidence was made public — including unedited 911 calls — the decision to release Zimmerman after the shooting would be better understood. But Corey apparently found enough evidence to believe the state’s Stand Your Ground law did not apply in this case.

“If Stand Your Ground becomes an issue, we fight it,” she said.

The case can't be this complicated.  The local police and DA weren't prepared to press charges; Ms. Corey is.  The non-exclusive explanations of that fact include:

(a) she developed new information from witnesses;

(b) she finally got back some lab work that broke Zimmerman's story;

(c) the Sanford PD and DA were incompetent or overly cautious in their charging decision.

The Miami Herald is not describing breakthrough witnesses, breakthrough lab work, or poor performance in Sanford.  So what shifted, other than the political winds?

And do my eyes deceive me, or did the Miami Herald report that the 911 tapes with background screaming were "critical" and "would be" analyzed?  "Would be"?  As in, it hasn't happened yet? 

I may be the wrong guy to ask, but I don't think any voice analysis will survive admissibility standards (Frye in Florida state trials, Daubert otherwise.) And all these experts, including two quoted in the Orlando Sentinel, will have to talk their way past their own websites to get that "analysis" in - matching screams to speech is just not standard accepted, reviewed science.

And speaking of science, the Daily Caller tackled that point with forensic audiologist Tom Oewn, who claims to be able to match the 911 screams to either Zimmerman or Martin (or, of course, the 13 year old bystander):

Reached for comment, Owen told TheDC that he has conducted his own study — “The Owen Study” — of more than 400 different pitches, screams, and voice disguises. The study is unpublished.

That is not the decisive evidence we are looking for.  But let's promote Mr. Owen's new software for him, shall we? Cui bono, and Cui LOL?

Look, if a lab report came back four weeks after the shooting demonstrating a complete absence of powder residue on Martin's clothing and insisting the two men must have been at least, say, ten feet apart to explain that result, then fine - the Sanford PD didn't have that test and Ms. Corey does.

But it sounds like what we have seen is a lot like what we are going to get.  Yike.

PROCEDURAL GAMES: The defense will be entitled to the discovery process by which they see the prosecution case.  Maybe Ms. Corey wants to delay some lab work or voice analysis, just to keep the defense guessing - does the defense take a plea deal now or gamble on a potentially decisive lab test not currently available to either side?

I don't know if that is ethical, but I also don't know if ethical concerns are at the top of Ms. Corey's list just now. But I do know the day is not long enough for a catalog of my ignorance...

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/12/v-fullstory/2744193/george-zimmerman-charged-with.html#storylink=cpy

 

Comments

[steve]

Even if the prosecution were to hold back, doesn't the defense have the right to the evidence to conduct its own tests?

Otherwise, I agree, I don't know what evidence could exist that would be sufficient to overcome Zimmerman's defense.

[JeffC]

The non-exclusive explanations of that fact include:

you left out:

d) Corey knuckled under to political pressure

[Jay]

Maybe Ms. Corey wants to delay some lab work or voice analysis, just to keep the defense guessing - does the defense take a plea deal now or gamble on a potentially decisive lab test not currently available to either side?

The defense won't go for the Motion for Declaration of Immunity and Dismissal until there is some sort of discovery. The right to immunity from criminal prosecution afforded by Section 776.032 is to be determined by the trial court after an evidentiary proceeding in which the criminal defendant has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence.

[ECM]

She didn't sound like someone that really needed the brass knuckles put to her to file the charges.

[RattlerGator]

Tom, I read that "would be analyzed" line to mean it's a component of the factors considered -- not something to be reviewed later.

[Jay]

The defense would be crazy to plea based on what is publicly known.

[Ignatz]

There's enough threads here now to weave a comforter.
Think I'll take a nap.

[Cecil Turner]

If Zimmerman's telling the truth, an exemplar of him screaming ought to match the recording at a lot better than 48 percent. If I were him, I'd be screaming in various microphones and springing for the $5 grand software (and picking the best one).

[Thomas Collins]

Mass. AG Coakley agrees with the decision to charge Zimmerman. See LUN.

I am going to hazard an answer to TM's queries re Corey. There is no there there. Corey is an overcharging prosecutor who hopes to plea bargain. She didn't take into account the self defense evidence. There will be no breakthrough evidence. Bringing the charge and plea bargaining, Corey feels, will help her politically. She may truly be feeling she is doing right thing by standing by the Martins and praying with them. Oddly enough, the item that most convinces me that I won't have to eat crow is Corey's speech. It's not a weird speech if what Corey is doing is bringing charges to respect the feelings of the Martins and others for whom "justice for Trayvon" means hauling Zimmerman into court and clearing the way for Crump to try to extract money from Zimmerman. Reprehensible, perhaps, but not weird.

[Scott]

TM,

911 audio "would be analyzed" phrase used in a statement attributed to and interview Corey gave "Last month."

[Thomas Collins]

CT, re your 1:55 PM post, you may know more about the software than I do, but without a Martin scream sample, I don't see how 48% tells us anything.

[Forbes]

If the prosecutor is hanging her case on Stand Your Ground, she must not have a case--unless the shooting forensics are at odds with Zim's story. Given the murder charge, rather than manslaughter, perhaps the forensics do. But that wouldn't take seven weeks to bring charges. Seven weeks is formulating a trial prosecution strategy.

[narciso]

Ah, this is a fine how do you do;

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

[narciso]

Act Dan Amirault how that worked out, oh wait,
scratch that,

[Scott]

Cecil,

I'm buying Easy Voice Biometrics. Imagine how impressed the jury will be when I demonstrate there's a >48% chance that the screamer is Richard Nixon in 1960.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6vXqmxy98

[Thomas Collins]

It seems to me Stand Your Ground only has relevance if a key area of contention is whether Martin jumped Zimmerman and knocked Zimmerman to the ground without both fighting while standing up, or whether the fight started with both upright. If the latter, I could see the State of Florida arguing that Zimmerman could have retreated to avoid further confrontation, while Zimmerman might invoke SYG. As has been pointed out frequently in these threads, one need not invoke SYG when one is having one's head pounded into the pavement.

[AliceH]

I'm not seeing anyone include the biggest strategic/tactical variable here, which is what George Zimmerman may choose to do.

He's reportedly distraught, understandably frightened, has disregarded counsel by contacting the prosecutor, and has a history of stepping up/taking a stand to support others in his community. A bit of self-sacrifice on his part...

Well, he may disregard all the fine analysis and legal beagling going on here and decide that, regardless of his odds in a court of law, he is morally responsible and may just opt to take a plea as being in the best interests of his family and friends.

[Steven]

This is a circus. TM & family and members of their "community" have ratcheted up the race card the whole way and this has continued to spiral out of control. Whether or not GZ did anything wrong the activist minority groups and Chancellor Barry O have had a public lynching.

[cboldt]

Next Court hearing isn't until May 29. Whatever is happening in the way of legal proceedings will be sealed - out of view of the public. The hearing on May 29 is the formal arraignment. The motion for immunity will be filed at the same time, if it hasn't been filed before.

I don't know if the docket sheet will be sealed, as well as the contents of the filings. The legal system does not want to be watched.

[Thomas Collins]

You might be correct as to his state of mind, AliceH. However, his "stepping up" attitude could lead to the conclusion that taking a plea is giving in to the crooks. My gut feeling is that O'Mara will greatly influence him in his decisionmaking.

[Extraneus]

It's dismaying that the most seasoned lawyers commenting here are jaded about the motives and ethics of the prosecutor.

[cboldt]

-- It's dismaying that the most seasoned lawyers commenting here are jaded about the motives and ethics of the prosecutor. --

That just the way reality rolls sometime.

[Thomas Collins]

Extraneus, it's not just this prosecutor. I served over two years on a special federal grand jury. I came in contact with a lot of prosecutors. Overall, I think they are fine people. But they are people, subject to the same pressures as all of us. Plus, many are ambitious. It's all too easy to conclude that what furthers one's ambitions is the right thing to do.

[Janet]

from Jack Cashill -

"In a similar vein, Trayvon Martin will remain in the minds of many Americans an elfin 12-year-old on a Skittles mission. If his evolution into a 6′ 3″ wannabe gangster can be discussed in court, the media will try to ignore it."

[Extraneus]

George Zimmerman makes brief court appearance

[lyle]

to respect the feelings of the Martins and others for whom "justice for Trayvon" means hauling Zimmerman into court and clearing the way for Crump to try to extract money from Zimmerman.

Yeah, I'll bet those are some reeeeallly deep pockets.

[fdcol63]

" ... for Crump to try to extract money from Zimmerman. ..."

I think the deep pockets Crump was aiming for was the City of Sanford's.

[Rob Crawford]

I don't know if the docket sheet will be sealed, as well as the contents of the filings. The legal system does not want to be watched.

Turning a man into sausage is hard enough without witnesses, eh?

[Rob Crawford]

I think the deep pockets Crump was aiming for was the City of Sanford's.

Really?

I'm thinking he has dreams of getting a cut of the "urban redevelopment" Danegeld after the riots.

Made a few people rich here in Cincy.

[Jay]

It's dismaying that the most seasoned lawyers commenting here are jaded about the motives and ethics of the prosecutor.

Well, given that:

1. She's up for election this year
2. She was preachy & giddy yesterday
3. She admitted to praying with the Martin's

Um, yeah.

[fdcol63]

Rob, could be. Sounds like a win-win for him.

[AliceH]

Had another thought, which may have been covered on one of the prior hundreds of threads....

What if the Prosecutor is doubling down on a greater charge because it would be harder for a jury to let that charge stand than manslaughter? That is, a jury may give more careful consideration to all the evidence when the stakes are 25-to-life vs. if they were told to choose whether it's manslaughter or nothing.

That wasn't clear, but hoping you can grasp the point.

[bgates]

"I believe it was an accident," [Trayvon's mother] told Ann Curry in the initial interview. "I believe that it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back."
"George Zimmerman stalked my son and murdered him in cold blood," she told MSNBC in a separate interview.

[Cole Sear]

I see your favorite racist and murderer Zimmerman is indigent. Will the rubes here take up a collection and save the Florida taxpayers from having to pay for this loser's defense?

Put your money where your mouths are, rubes.

[Chubby]

((My gut feeling is that O'Mara will greatly influence him in his decisionmaking.))

and all the pieces will fall into place into a design designed by Corey?

[Jay]

Cole Sear,

Please point to Zimmerman's history of racism.

Thanks in advance.

[Adjoran]

Crump was definitely looking at suing the SPD and the City, where the big bucks are. Maybe the Homeowners Association of the gated community, but it turns out the whole place is pretty much underwater after the bubble burst, of course Crump might not have realized that when he rushed in.

Zimmerman really needs to listen to his attorney. This is one more example of the FACT that speaking with the authorities just cannot help you at all, even if you are innocent, even if you only tell them what they already know.

For example, any exculpatory information GZ gave the cops during his five hour interrogation without an attorney present is inadmissible hearsay: what you say to the cops can be used AGAINST you, but never FOR you. If you didn't know that, shut up and lawyer up!

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc

[fdcol63]

bgates, sounds like she's been going through the 5 stages of grief:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

[Thomas Collins]

I'm sure Crump is looking for pockets to pick in addition to Zimmerman's. But every little bit helps.

[Rob Crawford]

Jay, "racism" doesn't actually have anything to do with bigotry or supremacism or discrimination anymore. It just means "a leftist doesn't like this".

[narciso]

I think that will difficult this time, because it's a different fact pattern than the Andersen case, it's arguable that Bay Cty was negligent in their duties, that's not really clear with Sanford PD. In 46 calls there hadn't been one single incident,

[Brian]

I saw Z's attorney this morning on the Today show. He seemed competent and up to speed on whats publicly known, but obviously hasn't seen anything from the prosecutors yet.

I get the impression that he was anxious to get that information. In the meantime he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

This will die down until the preliminary hearing at which time we'll see what evidence is there. If the prosecution doesn't have some sort of slam dunk new evidence I expect we'll hear about that when its released to Z. Leaked or otherwise.

My guess is that there isn't any evidence other than what we have already. No super duper forensic or blood spatter analysis.

I think Corey based murder 2 on the fact that Z followed Martin (stalked in the word of the mother). In the eyes of the prosecutor that makes him the aggressor, and SYG doesn't apply.

Personally, I think that's a wrong finding based on what we know so far. There's no requirement to stay in your car in your own neighborhood.

But that's the "aggravating factor". Unfortunately, it looks like it will be up to a judge to decide.

The local prosecutor and police chief looked at the case and saw that they'd never be able to prove that it wasn't self defense, so decided not to prosecute.

But Special prosecutors, they prosecute! She took a look at the same evidence and decided that Z getting out of his car "upped" the ante and therefore its murder 2.

It's amazing how much the narrative has changed from the initial story that went national.

As a CCW holder I'm trying to think about how I would have handled the situation. Probably tried to be on guard a little better and not let the suspicious person get that close to me. Might have left the gun in the car, but then under at least one interpretation of the incident I'd be dead on the sidewalk.

Question for the lawyer types? During Voire Dire do you want CCW holders on your jury or not? On one hand they might sympathize with Z, on the other they may think he didn't follow training properly.

[AliceH]

I should have added to my 2:48... this is a(plausible? I don't know) scenario whereby the prosecutor raises the bar on the prosecution more than it raises the stakes on the defense.

[Jay]

Jay, "racism" doesn't actually have anything to do with bigotry or supremacism or discrimination anymore.

That's what I figured, thanks!

[Rob Crawford]

I think Corey based murder 2 on the fact that Z followed Martin (stalked in the word of the mother). In the eyes of the prosecutor that makes him the aggressor, and SYG doesn't apply.

Doesn't work that way in Florida. I cited multiple examples in another thread. The persecutor has to purposefully ignore the law to come to that "conclusion".

[NK]

Crump/Race Hustlers? they are going after the State of Florida's pockets. How? A federal 'civil rights' lawsuit -- Florida's CC and SYG laws have violated the civil rights of young black men by disproportionate violence. The plan is to sue, make enough noise, and the State quietly settles by paying for 'youth programs' and 'public awareness' and --of course-- paying for the plaintiffs' attys fees. To them GZ is nothing but way to payday-- so he's the 'racist shooter'. It was inconvenient for the for Mrs Martin to tell the truth on television this morning.

[macphisto]

when self-defense is judged "racist," racism will inevitably become a means of self-defense.

[Dave (in MA)]

favorite racist and murderer Zimmerman

Yep, another Instalanche.

[Some guy]

"I see your [sic] favorite racist and murderer Zimmerman is indigent."

Well, he is a democrat, so taxpayers footing the bill… kismet.

[Donald]

Now she tells us. After all that arrest just opened the lock box(s).

[Brian]

Doesn't work that way in Florida. I cited multiple examples in another thread. The persecutor has to purposefully ignore the law to come to that "conclusion".

Agreed, but it wouldn't be the first prosecutor to read the law differently in order to fit the desire to prosecute.

[NK]

TomM-- I don't think it's a worry that Corey witholds any discovery info from the defense-- the last thing Corey wants is dismissal based on prosecutorial misconduct. IMO-- things slowdown from here; GZ's lawyer makes his immunity motion and discovery demands-- then he'll move to dismiss the murder charge, and Corey asks for the court to permit a lower charge if murder is not sustainable. She'll come to a meeting of the minds with GZ's lawyer about a plea, but GZ will demand no federal charges. Then it gets ugly with that prick Holder.

[GMAX]

I take CCW holders and gong every admitted democrat, claiming that mentally ill cant serve on a jury.

[MarkO]

First, I’m on record that the current drama is not about “justice” in the ordinary sense. It might lead to a fair result, but it is part of a maneuver to place ultimate blame (whatever the outcome) on a jury that will disband after a trial and disappear into the wilderness like the original scapegoat. In this, the SP is far from unique. It makes unlikely the possibility that any single judge will dismiss the case based on SYG or SD.
Now, as to the existence of additional evidence, I fully believe there will be such evidence. But, I doubt that there will be new or different “material” evidence. We’ve heard from the girlfriend, from the 911 tape, from the percipient ear witnesses, from the percipient eye witnesses, from the preliminary police reports, from the parents of Shep’s “dead child” (a locution that has gained currency among the race baiters), from Zimmerman, and from a vast population of incompetent witnesses whose opinions seemed to matter in a way that can’t be fully ascertained. At least not yet.
Even the nature of the event itself seemingly precludes surprise evidence. I reasonably suspect that TM died in the middle of a struggle with the gun firing up against his body. Otherwise, I believe there would have been a murder 1 charge. I fully expect the forensics to confirm that. We are left with the fact that only Zimmerman knows exactly the sequence of events. Apparently, he sang like a sparrow that night and we know his story.
I doubt there is much left to learn.

[Papa Whskey]

So what shifted, other than the political winds?

This:

"There would've been a riot if they hadn't arrested him."

-- black leader Linda Dayson, of "Hurting Families With Children In Crime," in today's Wall Street Journal

That's why they'll convict him, too -- because otherwise we'll have a repeat of L.A. '92, nationwide.

[NK]

Brian- the 'multiple examples' reference in the quote you lifted involved cases where the shooter was charged-- just like GZ-- and the shooter's motion for immunity (after being charged) based on self-defense was granted by the Court. GZ has that same opportunity. I see no evidence -- yet-- that Corey is 'reading the law differently' from prior cases.

[Rob Crawford]

Agreed, but it wouldn't be the first prosecutor to read the law differently in order to fit the desire to prosecute.

This is beyond a different interpretation.

[Brian]

Rob, the "stalked" factor has been the families talking point for some time now. Based on yesterday's presser it looks like Corey is on board with the family narrative in at least some way.

Some here have tried to make the case that the fact that there was a gun involved escalated the issue (shouldn't have been armed on neighborhood watch).

In reality, that's all baloney (he wasn't on neighborhood watch he was going to the store) and if you believe his story if he hadn't had the gun he'd be dead on the sidewalk right now.

But it does explain how she would hope to get a conviction on murder 2 with the information WE have in hand. Convince a jury that leaving the car with your gun is stalking your prey and it's smooth sailing from there to conviction.

I'm of the impression that if there were more damning evidence (other witnesses, etc) it would have already come out. How much "fake" evidence has come out against Zimmerman that has been proven untrue already (he said coon, he said black guys look suspcious, he wasn't injured, etc.) If you had a witness saying he shot TM in cold blood someone would have leaked it by now.

[Rob Crawford]

NK, you're not making an accurate statement at 3:15.

Brian, this page lists eleven other cases the Tampa Bay Times felt were "similar" to this one. Three are pending; SEVEN of the others had the result "granted immunity" or "not charged". ONE went to trial, and ended in an acquittal.

Again, Corey is not treating Zimmerman the same as others are treated according to Florida law.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for an article on today's proceedings, and on Crump's cleanup of Martin's mom "accident" remark. I'll bet noone is surprised to learn it's no longer an accident.

[Rob Crawford]

But it does explain how she would hope to get a conviction on murder 2 with the information WE have in hand. Convince a jury that leaving the car with your gun is stalking your prey and it's smooth sailing from there to conviction.

In which case there are going to be a hell of a lot of cases reopened, because the prosecutors have picked self defense in cases more questionable than this.

[GMAX]

White House visitor logs indicate that “Hilary Rosen” visited the White House 35 times.

Gen. David Petraeus, head of our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the current CIA director, nine times.

Says it all, dont it.

[Some guy]

"Again, Corey is not treating Zimmerman the same as others are treated according to Florida law."

That was never in the cards. The minute a "special" prosecutor is appointed, standard procedures and precedent tend to be irrelevant. That's what makes them so special.

[Brian]

Rob, again, I agree with you. I'm just trying to figure out how she gets to where she has. how does she expect to get a conviction on murder 2?

I'm assuming that shes not completely evil ala Sharpton (formenting potential race riots for personal gain).

I think shes going to hang her hat that leaving the car escalated the situation and try to convince first a judge and then a jury that by leaving his car with a gun Z's a bad man.

Again, I don't agree with that take. You should be able to leave your car in your own frickin neighborhood. Even to "pursue" someone suspicious.

[Thomas Collins]

See LUN for an article on the applicability of Florida's SYG law to the Martin/Zimmerman matter. The article clarifies for me the importance of SYG. It makes it extremely difficult for the State of Florida to second guess Zimmerman's actions before Martin attacked him.

[Rob Crawford]

So the "special" prosecutor can ignore the law as it's written, some guy?

[Cole Sear]

So, in other words, none of you rubes will pony up for the racist indigent.

All talk, no action. Typical cowards and losers.

I will have to make sure none of my federal tax dollars flow to Florida to (1) defend the murder and (2) incarcerate him for the rest of his miserable life.

Back to your wanking on Zimmerman's picture now...

[GMAX]

Where is there any evidence of malice in any of the known evidence, well besides the evidence tampered with by NBC I mean? I see none?

[derwill]

"That's why they'll convict him, too -- because otherwise we'll have a repeat of L.A. '92, nationwide."

I'm not so sure about that. Having served on the jury in a 2nd degree murder case, I think a decent human being would find it very hard to send a man that they truly believe to be innocent to prison for life. (Actually they'd be sending him to his death, since Z wouldn't last a week in the general pop). YOu've got to live with yourself afterward, and the average American can be surprisingly brave when it comes to doing the right thing.

That's why I think it will be a hung jury . . . With the caveat that the preponderance of the evidence really doesn't prove Z's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Some guy]

You mean racist indigent democrat. And don't forget Latino.

You're welcome.

[Brian]

Again, Corey is not treating Zimmerman the same as others are treated according to Florida law.

Agreed. As evidenced by the local prosecutors decision not to prosecute.

Two prosecutors looked at the same evidence and came to two different conclusions.

The only difference is that there was intense political pressure on the second prosecutor to 'get it right'.

It's all speculation on my part as to the inner workings of Corey's mind. She hasn't told us why she didn't discuss exculpatory evidence.

She's said SYG doesn't apply and if its argued she'll "fight it". My guess is that is a reference to leaving the car. It matches the mother's narrative as well (he stalked, he pursued).

I hope she has more evidence. I wish there were a video camera of the whole event showing every angle and audio to match up what was said.

But if there were it would have been out already, and the first prosecutor would have decided to prosecute.

I suppose Corey could be basing murder 2 because she doesn't believe Z's story about the fight and being on his back, but there's physical evidence to match that story so in that case she's just ignoring exculpatory evidence.

[narciso]

Not much one can find out about him;

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2000-08-13/news/0008120577_1_mark-herr-county-judge-deen

[Some guy]

"So the "special" prosecutor can ignore the law as it's written, some guy?"

Pretty much. Once one is appointed, there is very little to restrain them. The old saying, 'a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich' is almost the same with a special prosecutor. Just change "can" to "will"...

[Mike]

I am looking forward to contributing to Z's legal fund once there is an official site set up (I was a little leery of the site from a few days ago). Once the family sets something up I will definitely donate.

[Brian]

In which case there are going to be a hell of a lot of cases reopened, because the prosecutors have picked self defense in cases more questionable than this.

I'm more worried about SYG efforts in other states stalling and in Florida being repealed.

We'll know at some point. It all has to be argued in court and it will all be public since Florida is such an open records sort of state.

I hope she has some super-dooper evidence, but I have no evidence she does. Hence all the emotional baggage in yesterday's presser.

[Thomas Collins]

All Corey needs is enough evidence to get a plea bargain, which would be good for her political career. JOMers have thought through the facts and law re 2nd degree murder in Florida to a far greater extent than Corey has. As I reflect on Corey's speech yesterday, I have to hand it to her on one point: she basically told us that this was all about making the Martins feel right, not about the law of second degree murder.

[Baladas]

According to the timeline of record, the State Atty in Seminole county did not find probable cause to charge G.Z. right away.

"By Florida Statute, law
enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and
circumstances they had at the time."

But Sanford PD. CONTINUED the investigation and as of March 12th claimed to be finalizing details in order to turn the case over to the state atty.

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

Ben Crump was either ignorant as to the burden the law placed on Sanford PD and the prosecutor, or disinterested, because by his own account, just days after hearing of the incident he "expected" an arrest.

** Two days after the shooting, the high-profile civil rights attorney started getting calls about the case. "My phone was buzzing," Crump says.

But Crump, whose firm's motto is "We Help David Fight Goliath," initially didn't think there would be any reason to take the case. When he heard Trayvon Martin was unarmed, he assumed the Sanford Police Department would make an arrest.

"A neighborhood watch volunteer with a 9 mm gun? And he kills your son, who's an unarmed teenager? They're going to arrest him," he recalls telling those who approached him about the case.

"If they're trying to sweep it under the rug ... don't let 'em.

- Benjamin Crump, attorney for Trayvon Martin's family

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/05/150068233/how-lawyer-got-nation-talking-about-trayvon-martin
------------------------

Ben went on to put on a show, inflame the media, and get Sharpton involved, without any respect or regard for due process.

HE started the war.

[JJ]

Per CBS/OrlandoSeninel (LUN):

The affidavit of probable cause prepared by prosecutors shed some light on why they chose to charge Zimmerman. The Orlando Sentinel said it had obtained a copy before it was expected to be filed with the courthouse.

The newspaper says that Martin’s mother identified screams heard in the background of a 911 call as her son’s. There had been some question as to whether Martin or Zimmerman was the one calling for help.

Prosecutors also interviewed a friend of Martin’s who was talking to him just before the shooting. The affidavit says Martin told the witness he was being followed and was scared.

Martin tried to run home, the affidavit says, but was followed by Zimmerman: “Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin.”

The affidavit says that “Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher” who told him to stop, and “continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.”

[Ignatz]

--I will have to make sure none of my federal tax dollars flow to Florida...--

Suggest you get to work on that post haste, Cole. Let us know how you come out on it, kay?

[jwest]

All the arguments about what can or cannot happen in this case are great as an intellectual exercise, but as we witnessed in the Libby case, laws and facts don’t matter.

The result will be whatever is politically expedient at the time. If there is irrefutable evidence of his innocence but the media and loudest voices in the racism industry determine he should be guilty, he will be found guilty. Laughable “evidence” like the two clowns doing audio analysis will be taken seriously while credible witnesses will be ignored.

Zimmerman is toast and our country is in serious trouble.

[Rick Ballard]

"So the "special" prosecutor can ignore the law as it's written"

Even not so special prosecutors do it frequently enough so that there should be absolutely no surprise when it happens. It's rather nice that Corey can be sent to spend more time with her family by an electorate which finds that she has exceeded the bounds of even impropriety in this instance.

She has cast the die and will discover her reward in November. Her target is the Fuddle and she has read them accurately to date, so I wouldn't bet against her. Is she really a far, far worse emo prosecutor than Giuliani or Spitzer or Fitzgerald?

[Some guy]

"The newspaper says that Martin’s mother identified screams heard in the background of a 911 call as her son’s."

Interesting. Has Corey ever heard of confirmation bias?

[JJ]

So per the affidavit above, Corey's great case is based on:

1) Treyvon's mom saying that is Treyvon screaming for help in the backgroud (this is the same women who said it was an accident this morning and they said it was cold blooded murder a couple of hours later).

2) The call with Treyvon girlfriend (when did she come forward again?)

3) Zimmerman follwed Martin (but Zimmerman has grass stains on his back and skull wounds)

4) The 911 dispatchers said to retreat and he didn't (even though he said "ok").

So no new detials. What else is Corey going to add? That Z pumped 2 shots? That Z said "he is black"? That Z said "f'n coons"?

Oh boy.

[Jim Ryan]

Yes, the girlfriend will say that TM told her that he was fleeing from a scary man. Why not? And the mother with the trademark says she can tell it was her son screaming on the tape. Why not? They want Zimmerman to pay and their claims can't be disproven, so why not?

[anon]

The second I heard Angela Corey had been appointed to this case, I knew Zimmerman would prosecuted. My own experience with her goes back to when she was trying to build support in her bid to be governor of the state of Florida.

For all I know Zimmerman could be as guilty as possible, but what I do know with 100% confidence is that Corey will use this case to further her political ambitions. I know this all too well.

That’s her MO in its entirety.

The following is totally unrelated to my experience, but it is indicative.

http://www.change.org/petitions/remove-state-attorney-angela-corey

[JJ]

The defense team should include a black guy that is 6'2" and around 175lbs in a hoodie to stand next to Z throughout the trial.

[NK]

RobC-- thanks for your 322 link. Assuming the media has that right, in 11 self defense cases 6 of the 11 times the shooter was charged (just like GZ). One went to trial resulting in acquittal, 2 motions were granted dismissing the charge based on self-defense, 3 cases still pending. 5 of the cases were no charge. Of those 5, the first 2 were a 'trespass' (I assume that means home or business breakin) and the second a carjack. So no charges in a home defense and carjack-- that's very different from GZ's case. 3 other cases where no charge was filed are similiar-- arguments/fights excalating. Can you argue GZ is being singled out where according to the Tampa media, in 6 of 9 self-defense cases ( that didn't involve a home or car breakin)the shooter was charged just like GZ-- I don't see it.

[Cole Sear]

Ignatz misses my point, refusing to say whether he or she will pony up. Typical coward.

Mike at least gets it and says he will contribute to the racist's defense, which is great for all the racists out there who can't wait to hunt down another law-abiding teenage African-American. Unfortunately, Mike is likely on the dole, so he is only passing along my tax dollars.

And to think the GOP used to be the party of personal responsibility! Now it is ruled by rubes like the host of this blog who pukes out one illogical and lunatic "analysis" after another of the "evidence" in this case so the lesser rubes can lap it all up.

[Mike]

Cole, why so angry? You got what you wanted...an innocent latino democrat facing a long jail sentence.

Turn that frown upside down!

[jwest]

Anyone have a link to the unsealed document MSNBC is talking about that details what evidence Corey relied on to bring the Murder 2 charge?

[Jay]

for all the racists out there who can't wait to hunt down another law-abiding teenage African-American.

You are a bad parody of the modern left.

[Some guy]

But Cole, he's *your* racist indigent.

It's time for you to step up to the plate and demand that the government do something. Your racist indigent is being pursued by a GOP prosecutor.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

Hmm, I don't get Cole Sear's point.
Dem on Dem violence. Black on Hispanic violence. There's something here for a racist NOT to like?
Puzzled.

[Jim,MtnViewCA,USA]

"white identity" racist.
as opposed to the other kinds....

[derwill]

What evidence do we have that the Hispanic democrat Zimmerman was a racist?

The "fucking coons" on the 911 call that turned out to be "fucking punks" once the audio was enchanced? The infamous NBC tape that turned out to have been maliciously edited to give the impression that Z is a racist? Because the unedited tape proves that in point of fact Z wasn't even sure of the race of the man he'd seen acting suspiciously. The dispatcher asked, "Is he white, black or hispanic?" And Z answered, "He looks black." Not "He is black." That tells me that while Z thought M was black, he wasn't absolutely certain of that in his own mind.

So where exactly is the racism?

[Jim Ryan]

Poor parody, Cole. Good parody amplifies the stupidity of its object only slightly. That's what makes it "dry." Here you've played it so broad and buffoonish that it just falls flat. In other words, most liberals aren't nearly as stupid as your character. It's back to the drawing board, I'm afraid!

[Ignatz]

--Ignatz misses my point, refusing to say whether he or she will pony up. Typical coward.--

From the facts as I know them he appears not guilty. If new facts emerge indicating his guilt I'd hate to have ponied up for a murderer.

You on the OTOH already know he is guilty of murder and want his life taken from him.
Hmm, a Dem wants to string up a non white apparently defending himself in the South. Stop me if you've heard this one.

[NK]

The Affidavit-- does anyone have a link to it? if that CBS Orlando report accurately describes the affidavit, that's a pretty emabarassing summary of facts by the State to justify the arrest.

[lyle]

Now it is ruled by rubes like the host of this blog who pukes out one illogical and lunatic "analysis" after another of the "evidence" in this case so the lesser rubes can lap it all up.

Anyone but me get the feeling that Cole has never fully read a single post by our host (hey!). But I give him some props: we haven't seen a concern troll in quite some time.

[cboldt]

-- As a CCW holder I'm trying to think about how I would have handled the situation. --

That's easy. No good deed goes unpunished. Don't be helpful. Every man for himself, etc. I'm dead serious. I would not intervene in a life or death situation to save any innocent person except myself or my immediate family. The law makes helpful intervention costly and painful. I'd scoot my butt to safety.

Even if you save your own life, and are in the right, you risk incarceration and serious financial costs. The only exception to this is being in your own home.