If A Tree Falls In The Forest...

If a tree falls in the forest but no one from the liberal media is there to blame Bush, then how did the Yankees do last night?

Sorry. The WaPo has a laugh-out-loud attempt to evaluate the Zimmerman 911 'Scream' tape which includes this headscratcher:

If you can’t hear the 45 seconds, how do you hear the 45 seconds?

Nobody can really hear anything on that tape, it's too loud.  But you can observe a lot just by watching, so maybe Yogi Berra can take over the prosecution.

OK, seriously.

Legal experts say the recording could be enormously important or disastrous for either side, depending on what a jury determines it can hear.

But what happens when a potentially crucial piece of evidence in one of the most explosive court cases in recent memory is a poor-quality recording of overlapping voices and unintelligible yells, essentially a wilderness of sound?

I think that expert testimony will confirm a juror's common sense - if the background screaming on the tape is unintelligible (my experience) and we don't have samples of Zimmerman, Martin and the 13 year old dogwalker screaming (we don't) then any attempt to draw a conclusion from that tape is unreasonable speculation and should not be admissible. The FBI experts brought in by the state prosecutors couldn't draw any conclusions, and plenty of voice experts explain why at their websites.

The WaPo finds one expert who hears Martin begging for his life. No scenario leading up to that is suggested; given Zimmerman's injuries I guess the theory would be that Zimmerman let Martin beat him for a while, then drew his gun, taunted him for nearly a minute, and executed him. I don't think that timing works with what witness 'John' saw (Zimmerman on bottom getting beaten ad screaming for help, and a gunshot very shortly thereafter), but who knows?

The WaPo also talks with the former head of the FBI audio lab:

Ryan is the retired head of the FBI forensic audio, video and image analysis unit. He said even the best audio forensic expert in the world using the most sophisticated equipment available would have a difficult time determining much at all from a recording of such degraded quality.

“I think it’s hard to scientifically say anything definitive with audio like this,” Ryan said. “. . . One person will come up with one scenario, one speech, one sentence, and some other well-meaning person, trying hard, unbiased in a controlled environment with headphones, will come up with another one.”

...

Ryan also questioned the basic idea that the age of the person or persons screaming during the 45 seconds — and thus whether it was 17-year-old Martin or 28-year-old Zimmerman or both — can be determined by measuring frequency, or pitch.

“To my knowledge, there are no scientific studies of pitch as an indicator or anything else in a scream that would give someone confidence to say how old somebody was,” Ryan said.

When it comes to emotionally charged situations, especially a life-or death situation, the range of the human voice is simply too wide and varied to correlate it accurately to age, Ryan said.

A 28-year-old might scream like a 17-year old. A 17-year old might yell like a 28-year-old.

“The science doesn’t help with a recording like this,” Ryan said. “There isn’t anything to hang your hat on.”

The WaPo concludes with a bit of broadly applicable wisdom:

Ultimately, the only answer to that question that will really matter, if the case goes to trial, is the jury’s. How it hears the 45 seconds, said Stephen A. Saltzburg, a law professor at George Washington University, will depend partly on the machinations and strategies deployed during the trial.

...

“Most trial lawyers believe, and most psychologists who study the way that people process information believe, that once people interpret something in a certain way, once they begin to believe something, they become committed to that,” he said. “And if they become committed, it’s hard to change their minds.”

That certainly explains the media coverage.

Comments

[Jim Ryan]

Would being from Kenya have helped a person get accepted to Columbia or to Harvard Law twenty years ago? Would the foreign status remain on the college records?

[MarkO]

"Vicious black-on-white attack in Denver. Does it seem there's been a rash of these lately?"

It's about fairness and Tryvon and the knowledge that the Civil Rights laws don't protect white folk--or so it seems.

In some parts of Virginia, it's not even news.

[narciso]

So that toast was not nearly the stupidest thing he's said, to date;

http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/21/trent-lott-explains-support-for-treaty-he-once-said-would-create-un-on-steroids/

[narciso]

Well you need this, to get those finely crafted decisions;

http://minx.cc/?post=329461

[Captain Hate]

Lott *seemed* like a decent guy at some point. I'm not sure if that was an extreme misread or if it's an example of power corrupting one's sense of right and wrong.

[narciso]

Like with Wookies, when you're business partner is the Cuban Army, you know better than to antagonize them;

http://babalublog.com/2012/05/quote-of-the-day-193/

[Jim Ryan]

How's my freshman Congressman, Robert Hurt, doing? Club for Growth, rating all the frosh.

[Chubby]

((Powell is delaying his statement of support for Obama in order to give the appearance of deliberation.))

isn't that what Oprah is doing also? perhaps it is their planned October surprise?

[Rick Ballard]

CH,

I don't have any opinion at all re Facebook. I didn't have one about pet.com either.

I find the timing of the issuance somewhat interesting because I suspect the underwriters may have been working with a 'now or never' model regarding income projections. It's just a suspicion. The lawsuits to follow may clarify the matter.

[peter]

Powell is delaying his statement of support for Obama in order to give the appearance of deliberation. He'll "throw his weight" behind Obama on Meet the Press in September.

plausible scenario

[narciso]

For those without a copy of the home game, Powell's No 2, Armitage is Erdogan's man in Washington,

[Chubby]

which is why none of the above is the candidate --it was the rhetoric of losers. and anyone who uses similar rhetoric will similarly lose.

[MarkO]

Name those whose vote in November will be affected by Powell or Oprah endorsing Obama. The reverse would be news. But, those two are knowm quantities.

[NK]

JimR- since Spring 2008 I've been of the opinion that 'Bam applied to Occidental Col and Columbia U as an "International Student" and got financial aid on that basis. Until 'Bam releases the college and financial aid apps and they prove otherwise, I'll continue to believe that.

[narciso]

That would not surprise me, NK, in light of what we've seen of Warren and others, and even the Awlaki example, he knew as Barry Dunham we wasn't going anywhere.

[Chubby]

NK

when you think about it, would he have had the audicity to allow his agent's bio to stand if his colleges had it on record that he born in Hawaii? Surely someone, one of his colleagues, would have blown the whistle on him? that was when he was a nobody and there was little reason to protect him.

[war of attrition]

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/jpmorgan-banking-committee/

" The committee is preparing for two hearings with regulators, and Senator Tim Johnson (D-SD), chair of the committee, is hoping that Jamie Dimon will testify in the near future. “Our due diligence has made it clear that the Banking Committee should hear directly from JPMorgan Chase’s CEO Jamie Dimon,” Johnson said in a statement last week.

Luckily for Dimon, the professional staff in charge of managing the banking committee will be quite familiar to him and his team of lobbyists. That’s because the staff director for the Senate Banking Committee is none other than a former J.P. Morgan lobbyist, Dwight Fettig."

How convenient. The Watch Dogs always need watching.

[Chubby]

good point, MarkO.

[Neo]

‘Basketball’

[jimmyk]

Powell is delaying his statement of support for Obama in order to give the appearance of deliberation.

I'm more curious about people like Kaus and Althouse who drank the Kool-Aid in 2008 but should know better. If they still fall in line behind Barry, that's not a good sign, at least regarding the elites. I'm sure the Reagan Democrat types will see through all the class warfare and bolt.

[Extraneus]

Trayvon enters the subconscious of society...

Stolen concrete pig found in Mt. Lookout

“I know it was stolen by teenage boys or college boys with a pickup truck,” Maggie said. “I am so profiling because I’m a mom and I can.”

[Jim Ryan]

NK, I think the publisher's bio corroborates this suspicion. Obama has claimed to be from Kenya in this bio (1994-2007). So, he was disposed to make this claim. There is no reason to suppose that a university application form would incline him not to make the claim. The claim would help him gain admission if he made it. So, I suspect he made this claim on those applications.

[Ignatz]

This ones just for you narciso; real life brain slugs.
Brain tapeworms, more common than thought. Responsible for at least 5 million cases of epilepsy.

[Janet]

Would being from Kenya have helped a person get accepted to Columbia or to Harvard Law twenty years ago? Would the foreign status remain on the college records?

Jim, Bookwormroom had an interesting post on that.

"To appreciate this, you have to know that Obama, who graduated from high school in 1979, must have started looking at colleges in 1978.

When it comes to college admissions, 1978 isn’t just any year. It’s a very special year. It was the year that the Supreme Court decided Regents of the University of California v. Bakke (1978) 438 U.S. 265."..."In a deeply fragmented decision, the Supreme Court held that this race-based admission process was unconstitutional."

then she speculates - "I’m sure that a certain amount of digging will reveal that, just when the Bakke decision came down, American universities were engaged in some sort of pro-active policy involving increasing the number of African nationals on America’s college campuses."

[Rick Ballard]

So, the Pinhead Troika picked up the Bain strategy from the losers of the race for the GOP nomination? What page of the ACME Political Strategery Manual did that come from?

[NK]

Posted by: Jim Ryan | May 22, 2012 at 11:44 AM -- Completely agree (plus the financial aid angle for foreign students)
'Bam may have been born in Hawaii, but he is a habitual liar about himself and his upbringing. He's not a man, he's a pathetic narrative.

[Rob Crawford]

Per a fellow moron: In the Department of Who Gives a Rat's Ass, Colin Powell will not be supporting the JEF's re-election bid.

Well, Powell's like the metal rooster on top the barn...

[Bruce]

Janet - down in AZ right now, and have been following the birth certificate thing a bit more closely as a result. Sheriff Joe is a loose cannon, but keeps his job because he does an impossible job better than anyone else probably can. And, he is entertaining.

But, Sec. of State Bennett is a much more serious, non-controversial political figure. He went into this birth certificate thing unwillingly. He was pushed by thousands of people reacting to Arpaio's posse claiming that the BC on the WH site being a fake. And, there is some evidence that it is - for example, one caller (on the talk show mentioned in the article) told of having a white on black BC from the same hospital as the President's supposedly came from, a couple of years later. The released one is, I think, black on green.

The Secretary of State seems to be trying to give the Obama campaign and the State of Hawaii every chance to satisfy him, and not setting the hurdle very high at all - not requiring a BC, but rather just the state of Hawaii to state in email that they have one. And, in response, the state of Hawaii has been playing hardball - for example, forcing the AZ Sec. of State to prove that he had a legal need and had the legal authority required. Apparently responded with citations to the AZ statutes, etc., to no avail - Hawaii is still stonewalling, two months after first being asked. As the article (Hawaii Five-O: Sheriff Joe sends detectives to Honolulu) ended (and I heard on the talk show): "“I believe the president was born in Hawaii – or at least I hope he was,” Bennett said."

Think about the legal issues if it turns out that Barack Hussein Obama II was not eligible to be President. What about all the laws that he signed? All the agency actions under his watch, approved by his appointees? All the actions of the judges nominated? Etc.

[Janet]

I would love to own that concrete pig!

[tony]

Gitsum;

That was a campaign. The don't really have those opinions.

We live in the future not past.

[Sue]

How far back do you think this "born in Kenya" meme started? He went to a pricey private school before college. And didn't someone mention he had a scholarship to help pay for it? Maybe one for international students which began his use of that in order to gain access to colleges he otherwise wouldn't have been able to attend?

[Mark Folkestad]

Clarice, in a previous thread, we had a discussion about the claims that Columbus and/or his crew were Jewish. Do you watch Professor Gates' celebrity genealogy show on PBS? In the most recent episode, Linda Chavez turned out to have solid Spanish Jewish roots, and the DNA test showed that she was around 20% Middle Eastern. Because of the presence of Moriscos in the early Spanish settlement of the New World, that genetic heritage calculation may be partly Moor/Muslim, not just Jewish. It was a fascinating show.

[Jim Ryan]

Don't want a president who in order to "save" a company goes in and arbitrarily fires thousands of its employees and then pretends he's done something good and respectable? Then don't vote for Obama.

[narciso]

It's interesting how those that were presumably at the top of the information chain were not

http://www.cfr.org/yemen/al-qaeda-arabian-peninsula-aqap/p9369

[jimmyk]

"I’m sure that a certain amount of digging will reveal that, just when the Bakke decision came down, American universities were engaged in some sort of pro-active policy involving increasing the number of African nationals on America’s college campuses."

I'm guessing the fellowship angle is more important. That plus the "cool factor." I don't think AA considerations would give much of an advantage to a black African vs. a black American--if anything the opposite. But my experience is with arts & sciences, maybe professional schools are different.

[NK]

OT-- the future of energy. From Bloomberg News (of all places), the evolution of heavy/Medium trucks from Diesel to NatGas. The US economy does have a bright future. For real. 'Bam is booted, national bankruptcy is averted, and the 'next wave' comes from reduced energy costs and national wealth created from USA/Canadian energy production. Nat gas, off shore oil, clean coal, micro nuke reactors will reduce US energy costs and help balance of trade. Averting national bankruptcy (Ryan Plan) will reflate the Dollar further reducing energy and food costs for American consumers. And of course repealing Obamacare and fixing the obscene tax code (all through reconcilation) will encourage job creators. The future is coming very soon: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-21/shale-glut-means-1-a-gallon-savings-at-the-pump.html

[Janet]

Yeah Bruce. I bet the long form Birth Certificate is a cut-n-paste forgery. The first released short form Birth Certification & the newspaper announcements were all generated from some testimonies that are on file in Hawaii....like this old Freeper post explains.

[Jane]

Gitsum,

To a large degree, those comments are why I came around to support Romney. I'm in favor of capitalism.

Re: Jury duty - after OJ went free people were enraged at the jury. I reminded everyone I know to think about that the next time they ducked their responsibility.

[Janet]

How far back do you think this "born in Kenya" meme started? He went to a pricey private school before college. And didn't someone mention he had a scholarship to help pay for it?

Yeah, Sue. Maybe the family lied to get him in Punahou.

[Clarice]

Rick, I notice today that Don Surber and Jennifer rubin are comparing the Obama campaign to a Wile E Coyote operation--see how far the analogy I stole from you is going!

[Gus]

Obama is hiding his records. WHY??
We know Obama is a habitual liar.

[Jim,MtnView,Ca,USA]

"why did they take it [Facebook] public"
I wonder if they sense there is a non-zero chance of the window-of-opportunity closing. Economic trends have been bad for a long time but governments have been able to paper over a lot of problems.

[cboldt]

-- Think about the legal issues if it turns out that Barack Hussein Obama II was not eligible to be President. What about all the laws that he signed? All the agency actions under his watch, approved by his appointees? All the actions of the judges nominated? Etc. --

There is a legal principle that applies in cases like this, based on "reliance" and "unnecessary disruption if it was otherwise," that upholds all the legislation signed into law, agency decisions (which the president doesn't make directly anyway), treaties (endorsed by the Senate), etc.

Unfortunately, I don't recall the name of the legal principle, nor do I have a cite that describes its application in a case where an elected official is later found to have been ineligible. Just the same, the courts are not going to mess things up worse, compounding Congress's error.

[Clarice]

Jimmyk, Almost all of the black male students in my son's class at Harvard came from abroad--mostly the Caribbean.

[NK]

RickB-- congrats if you were the first "Wile-Y Coyote-- SuperGenius" metaphor user here. I use that metaphor alot to help make points about Obama incompetence to my liberal acquaintances of a certain age.

[Captain Hate]

So, the Pinhead Troika picked up the Bain strategy from the losers of the race for the GOP nomination? What page of the ACME Political Strategery Manual did that come from?

Plus putting it into effect by flooding the airwaves with an ad where some grizzled unemployable deadbeat, who looks like he smells bad, whines about what Bain did to his already miserable life. Obviously the economic genius of the JEF hasn't provided any relief.

[Janet]

I don't think AA considerations would give much of an advantage to a black African vs. a black American--if anything the opposite.

I think the point was that Universities started thinking of ways to bring racial diversity another way.
Here in Arlington one of the schools got sued for choosing because of race...so they changed the system to chose certain numbers of kids from different areas in Arlington. They didn't want just a blind lottery.

[Clarice]

Obama is now the butt of undiplomatic behavior by foreign leaders, a trend he started.What goes around , comes around.
http://www.michellesmirror.com/2012/05/bad-hare-day.html

[Gus]

Remember back when the REALLY REALLY REALLY DUMB George W Bush and his Evil Genius side kick Dick Cheney brought down the WORLD TRADE CENTER in their FALSE FLAG operation.

Obama's records are going bye bye. There will be no financial aid records. None.

[Rob Crawford]

I think it's hilarious that the Retard From Pisser U thinks Marxist BS will gain converts.

[cboldt]

de facto officer doctrine

Ryder v. United States, 515 U.S. 177 (1995)

The de facto officer doctrine confers validity upon acts performed by a person acting under the color of official title even though it is later discovered that the legality of that person's appointment or election to office is deficient. Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 440 (1886). "The de facto doctrine springs from the fear of the chaos that would result from multiple and repetitious suits challenging every action taken by every official whose claim to office could be open to question, and seeks to protect the public by insuring the orderly functioning of the government despite technical defects in title to office."

[Chubby]

if he did claim to be Kenyan, wouldn't his guardians have had to be in on the scam? or at least have had to provide proof of his birthplace?

[Sue]

I have always thought Obama was born in Hawaii. I have also always thought something was hinky about the whole birth certificate ordeal. What I never considered, and I considered most everything I could think of, was someone, either Obama, his mother or his grandparents, listed him as born in Kenya for financial benefits, i.e., scholarships, loans available to foreign students, etc.

You know, you just know, that Obama knew his literary agent thought he was born in Kenya. He inserts himself into others presidents' bios and didn't read one of his own? Pshhhtttt...not likely.

[rse]

On facebook, the second I heard they were going public I said their business model is peaking and they want to lock in wealth gains from a liquid stock.

They didn't need the money to expand and construct capital intensive assets.

They didn't need to restore depleted institutional liquidity.

They didn't need to create a raiding fund to go after other entities.

They wanted to cash out with their large name recognition just like AOL did when it bought Time Warner.

I have as counsel many years ago walked away from deals because the risks were too high to adequately describe in a prospectus. No matter how hot stocks in that particular sector were. But I have always tended to try to master the dynamics of the underlying business whether I was Co counsel or U counsel. That tendency made clients happy but frequently made counsel on the other side very angry. After all I was a 3rd year associate and they were a partner.

I guess one of the things I am saying is that it is entirely possible to have big name law on both sides and have No One think to ask how do we write a prospectus around the fact that we may have defend why they sold and we priced it like this.

I suspect this will not be the FUN closing dinner some where hoping for.

[Porchlight]

To be sure, from an AA standpoint, Obama's schools (including Punahou) would have been interested in his Indonesian upbringing and exotic parental lineage even if he truthfully reported being born in Hawaii.

So that gets him in. Does it get him substantial financial aid, though?

[Sue]

Chubby,

I think his guardians probably started it with Ponahou and Obama carried it over to college.

Either that or he decided to use it at Occidental. There is an early story about Barry going home at Christmas from Occidental his first year of college and telling his grandparents and mother he was no longer going to be Barry but Barack. They were upset about him using the name his mother gave him at birth, according to the story. And continued to call him Barry, even though he requested they not do so. The story always made little sense to me. Why were they upset about him using his actual name and not the nickname they had given him?

There is always something about Obama that doesn't add up just right.

[Gus]

I guess an Indonesian passport would go a long way in helping Barry Soetor Dunham Hussein Obama, getting financial aid and preferential treatment.

[Sue]

When Barry Became Barack

The way his half sister, Maya, remembers it, Obama returned home at Christmas in 1980, and there he told his mother and grandparents: no more Barry.

[bgates]

I don't understand how Facebook is supposed to be worth so much. Then again, a few years ago I didn't understand how houses were supposed to be worth so much. I could just be slow.

At the same time, another thing I don't understand is one of that Forbes piece's complaints:
Facebook left nothing for the common investor. The insider pig pile of PE firms and celebrity Silicon Valley angels took it all.

I thought an opening day "pop" meant that an IPO was underpriced, and the i-banks and early investors were able to profit at the expense of the company. If there's no pop, then by definition the IPO was fairly priced, right? And since when does a public company have a duty to leave money on the table for the common investor anyway?

[Danube of Thought]

"What about all the laws that he signed? All the agency actions under his watch, approved by his appointees? All the actions of the judges nominated? Etc."

They won't be affected. The Supreme Court would invent anything it was necessary to invent in order to leave them undisturbed--e.g., holding that both the Congress and the Electors, with notice of questions about his eligibility, nevertheless ratified that eligibility by placing him in the office without objection.

[Danube of Thought]

When I started writing the previous post, cboldt hadn't yet posted re the de facto officer doctrine, which sure looks like it would be applied.

[DrJ]

bgates, I agree. I don't understand the wailing an gnashing of teeth on this one. The company's goal, or in this case, the investors, was to get the best price possible. They did.

I made no effort to get in on the IPO, because I figured it was overpriced. Way overpriced for my blood, but what do I know?

[Manuel Transmission]

Re last night's conversation about Wisconsin and GMax's bucket list, I had a flash about the Tea Party and OWS.

If you wanted the perfect model of what a week long occupation of the National Mall by the Tea Party would look like, go to Oshkosh on any last week in July. Every year about a half million people completely indistinguishable from TPers camp, stroll, hang out, and listen to speakers. The entire thing is run by a loose group of volunteers who come from their local chapters and even coordinate tractors pulling wagons to get folks around that can't do it on foot.

When it's all over, like 9/12/09, not a gum wrapper, not a blade of grass is out of place.

[Melinda Romanoff]

10% of Class B stock was offered to the public on Friday. The HFTs attacked the launch, a la, BATS months earlier. One of the few times you could see trades occur before they were quoted.

Level of computer theft? I don't have enough zeroes for that scale.

Oh, and CH, that Forbes article was monkey flung art.

[MarkO]

It was the fall of 1971 when a friend from New York first mentioned that he had been taught in Hebrew School that Christopher Columbus was a Sephardic Jew. But, he said, according to his school, every famous person was Jewish.

I feel certain similar ideas were suggested in many other religious schools. I know I heard them.

[Gerry]

What explains your obsession with this non-issue?

[daddy]

"wapo-hack-capeheart-admits-the-occupy-movement-is-going-nowhere/"

Personally I think the Occupy Movement is going to jail.

BTW,

Anybody know what to make of this former domestic bomb-making murderer just caught driving around Chicago with $800,000 in unexplained cash in his motorhome?

[Mark Folkestad]

Gerry, each thread involves many people and, often, several issues or nuances of a basic one. To whom are you addressing your question, and what exactly is the "non-issue" that has fired up your wrath? AND, who are you, a legitimate participant or a troll?

[Janet]

I always though Christopher Columbus was a Lutheran from Germany? weird...

[Neo]

I've worked on speech compression for cell phones for 16 years now. I've contributed improvements to many different standards.

What this folks are asking these audio experts is virtually impossible.

First, you have to understand that in order to accommodate as many cell phones as possible in the system, the speech is compressed. Original telephonic speech is sampled at 8kHz in 13-bits (that's 104kbits/s). For land-lines this would logarithmically compress the 13-bits down to 8-bits (using aLaw/uLaw, that's 64kbits/s), but for a mobile cell phone application, it is compressed down to a stream of 8kbits/s (in most cases, but some times 12.2kbits/s) which means it's 1/13th (or an 1/8th) the original rate to roughly 1.0 to 1.5 bits/sample.

To accomplish this compression, the codec (coder/decoder) is designed to look for the characteristics of speech, which means it only accommodates one speaker at a time and usually makes "mush" of music. Background noises are simulated with shaped noise. It isn't trying to reproduce the original speech, but rather simulate for the listener's ear, the original speech.

The recording described relative to the Trayvon Martin case, is probably the worst case (except there is no music) for a speech codec used in a cell phone.

[daddy]

Jane,

The 2 blue-collar boys blabbing about not voting for Obama this time around were in Alaska.

And as I thought about it later, I realized that they were quite loud and not afraid of anybody listening in to them. Thinking back to 2008, I can't think of anyone in a public place very loudly going on and on about not voting for Obama. Back then it was a very open "Yay Obama," from his vocal supporters, or else quietly saying nothing by those opposed to Obama.

Not any more, if last night was any indication.

[daddy]

"Would being from Kenya have helped a person get accepted to Columbia or to Harvard Law twenty years ago?"

I don't know the answer to that, but it is probably worth while to consider what if any benefits Aunt Zeituni and the Drunk driving illegal alien Uncle have received from American Society by the fact of their foreign births. Don't know if that would have transferred to help getting accepted into college.

[jimmyk]

I think the "Columbus was Jewish" theory was debunked, but there may have been Jews on his ships. I think the theory came from the coincidence that his ships sailed almost exactly on day the Jews were expelled from Spain (more precisely, their deadline to leave). But I don't think there was ever anything to it.

[jimmyk]

I don't understand the wailing an gnashing of teeth on this one. The company's goal, or in this case, the investors, was to get the best price possible. They did.

I think the concern in general with these IPOs is that there's some quid pro quo for the insiders who get first crack at the underpriced shares. Especially if they're politically connected. The fact that they messed this one up doesn't mean they didn't try.

There's no reason in principle you can't have P/Es of 80 or 100. It just means the buyers think earnings are going to grow by a factor of 4 or 5 fairly soon, or even higher but more slowly. Of course, who knows what those expectations are based on.

[Jane]

"Would being from Kenya have helped a person get accepted to Columbia or to Harvard Law twenty years ago?"

I dunno know Columbia, but if Harvard Law was like BC Law at the time, it certainly would.

[daddy]

Re: Columbus the ocean crossing Jew:

Just for info, If I understand it correctly, every Mormon who believes the Book of Mormon, believes that Jews sailed across the Ocean to discover the America's 2,000 years ago. Columbus then, if a Jew, was just following in the wake of his "Lost Tribe of Israel" predecessors.

[Some guy]

Neo,

Thanks, I've been wondering about that exact issue.

Not only the compression from some of the 911 calls, but also if Martin's phone had active noise cancelling via a second microphone (such as an iphone4 or droid) -- that might make it improbable for DeeDee to have heard all that she claims to have heard.

Has Martin's phone model been disclosed?

[DrJ]

I think the concern in general with these IPOs is that there's some quid pro quo for the insiders who get first crack at the underpriced shares.

That's certainly true, but that is the case for all IPOs.

No, I see all sorts of stories on how the Facebook IPO failed. It didn't. Or that employees geto screwed. They didn't. And they got investors to fill the underwriter's book in spite of the growth necessary to make the IPO valuation work out.

Count me as skeptical, but I don't get the whole social media thing anyway.

On thing it does do is suck venture monies out of areas (like mine!) where the payback is not as rich and slower to happen. I'd really hate to have all the smart money run to the next Facebook and its clones and away from pharmaceuticals, devices and life sciences tools.

Needless to say, Obamacare will amke this even worse.

[Jim Eagle]

MT,

The other discriminating factor between EAA/Oshkosh & Tea Party versus OWS is the fact that those 500K of people who don't leave a gum wrapper are either employed or retired from full, productive employment. No free-loaders, no lazy, unambitious anthropology or political philosophy majors, living in Mom and Dad's basement, listening to punk rock and sucking on a diet coke.

Big difference.

[Jim Eagle]

DrJ,

The other day, Rush mentioned that GM is dropping advertising on Facebook. They say it doesn't work for them in terms of increased sales or market share. He also mentioned that FB has over 900 million members. Now what if Rush had 900 million listners? His show sells and is a market force for his advertisers and his audience is only 25 million tops.

Again, how many of those FB users can even afford a GM car much less be prepared to consider buying one? Is the bell curve apex of FB users in the 14 to 18 year old dynamic? That could be the real problem with its valuation.

[DrJ]

JiB,

I agree. My opinion is that Facebook will pursue data mining that is resold to interested parties. Yes, that is advertising, but it is quite different from the style Google uses.

While many users are young, I know many in their 20s and 30s who are heavy users too. I'm just not that interested.

It reminds me of the time I returned to campus for a sabbatical. All the undergrads walked around with cell phones glued to their ears. The conversations, mostly, were "where are you?" "what are you doing?" and the like. I don't get that either.

But then I'm a crusty old fart trying to run a business when I'm not pecking away here.

[Clarice]

Jimmyk, There's a new scholarly book out on Christopher Columbia with more "evidence". Given the fact that in 1492 almost all the literate Spaniards were clergy or Jews (required by their beliefs to teach their sons to read) it is very likely that his ships and those of our explorers of the time carried secret jews--especially as navigators and translators and provisioners.

[jimmyk]

While many users are young, I know many in their 20s and 30s who are heavy users too. I'm just not that interested.

Same here, in part because I don't want my "data" mined, and more generally because it's annoying. But I'm just another crusty old fart.

I agree the IPO didn't "fail," but they did evidently overprice it, so if they were trying to grease some palms with the pre-IPO allocations, that didn't work so well. I think the GM announcement must have played a role.

[Melinda Romanoff]

jimmyk-

It was worse than that. It was just like the BATS launch. HFTs crushed that one because of the potential competition. This was just looking for a little retail cash to lift. I'll send you the Nanex data. Later.

[Jim,MtnView,Ca,USA]

Keep in mind that when you start a FB account, you can't delete it. It is apparently the property of FaceBook.
I started one to follow our kids, and have gradually removed items about myself. Recently, as an experiment, I changed my birth-year to be 11 years old. A friend said that might make them delete the account due to being underaged.
Nope.
Instead it wouldn't let me do it and I got an email saying that if I persisted in lying to them they would suspend my profile (not delete it, just make it inaccessible to me). :)

[DrJ]

Jim,

It *is* possible to delete a facebook account, but it is a lot of work. My son-in-law deleted his, and he recounted what he had to go through. Unbelievable.

[MJW]

What I find quite amazing in the police interview with DeeDee is when she says Martin was near his house, then says that a couple of minutes later, Martin saw the man again. Somehow it never occurs to the interviewer, de la Rionda, to ask her to go back and describe what occurred during those couple of minutes. Just as it apparently didn't occur to him to ask DeeDee why, if she just heard a terrified friend attacked by a crazy man, she didn't call the police.

Normally, I try to go by the old saw, "never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence"; but in this case I think there is malice behind the willful incompetence. I think they knew DeeDee's story wouldn't hold up under careful examination, but they needed it to justify the second-degree murder charge.

[Threadkiller]

"Would being from Kenya have helped a person get accepted to Columbia or to Harvard Law twenty years ago?"

He probably claimed he was Barack Obama Sr. and he was returning to complete his degree.

[Chubby]

((It was the fall of 1971 when a friend from New York first mentioned that he had been taught in Hebrew School that Christopher Columbus was a Sephardic Jew. ))

If so, he was a Jew who had accepted that Jesus Christ was Messiah? in CC's Book of Prophecies he laid down a list of conditions for the Second Coming:

((This journal [The Book of Prophecies] ... conveys the medieval notion that in order for the end of the world or the second coming of Jesus Christ to occur, certain events must first be enacted:

1. Christianity must be spread throughout the world.

2. The Garden of Eden must be found - It was the common belief in the Middle Ages that the biblical Garden of Eden must have been on the top of a crag or mountaintop so that it would not have been affected by the first destruction of the world by flood. Upon arriving in Venezuela in 1498, Columbus may have thought that the verdant crags of Venezuela bore the garden of the Old Testament of the Bible.

etc.))

source: wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Prophecies

[narciso]

Well consider that our EPA director, Lisa Jackson was the national merit semifinalist in 1979, so what does that tell you.

[AliceH]

--Lisa Jackson was the national merit semifinalist in 1979--

Couple of things.

First, that's not included in her wikipedia bio - wonder why?

Second, I don't think this is how it worked in '79, but currently an NMSP Semi-Finalist status is awarded to the top third (weighted by state) of the top 50,000 students - one of approximately 16,000 in other words.

That's nothing to sneeze at, but "one of the top 16,000 scholars" is hardly the same as saying "THE" semi-finalist.

[jimmyk]

If so, he was a Jew who had accepted that Jesus Christ was Messiah?

Chubby, the idea, as far as I'm aware, was only that CC was one of thousands in Spain who had (or whose family had) converted, willingly or unwillingly (that is, with the threat of death or expulsion), from Judaism to Christianity. Many of the forced converts continued to practice Judaism in secret. Again, I don't think there's any evidence for this idea, but CC's public professions of Christian faith don't contradict it.

[pagar]

"I'd really hate to have all the smart money run to the next Facebook and its clones and away from pharmaceuticals, devices and life sciences tools."

I am still completely amazed that a belief exists that justifies 6.5+ million shares of LNKD (LinkedIn Corp) changing hands today alone at prices between $96.85 and $105.88. If my .99cent calculator is correct that is somewhere in the 60 million dollar range changing hands today.
Yahoo (I know is not always the best source but it says the P/E is 694.04 and the 1 year estimated price is $128.76.

I'd love to hear someone explain how that works. Any one remember what the p/e on Enron was at it's peak.

[Rick Ballard]

"I'd love to hear someone explain how that works."

The stock is followed by 19 optimistic analysts who are projecting an annual growth rate of 70% for the next five years.

It might happen.

[DrJ]

LinkedIn at least has a user base where the data mining is worth something. The issue is always how to monetize it, and they are exploring options.

I agree with Rick: it might happen. Maybe.

[Jim Eagle]

Everyone I know on LinkedIn is a bored retiree:) Independent [blank] Professional followed by a CV of 30 to 40 years experience but still retiree'd. Which only proves that travel, golf and being home full time with the wife is not what the hell you thought it would be like:)

[DrJ]

Everyone I know on LinkedIn is a bored retiree:)

Perhaps that's the demographic group into which you fall? :)

My wife the recruiter has found a lot of people on LinkedIn. Recruiters are of course a focus (as are job seekers) but most everyone I know professionally is on it. And that's a lot of people.

[Chubby]

((When even hard lefties dont want to hear a word you have to say))

that was clearly a deliberate snub. is there anything particular that Obama has done to tee off France?

[Chubby]

((Again, I don't think there's any evidence for this idea, but CC's public professions of Christian faith don't contradict it.))

I can see that. The only thing that I would question is why he wrote his Book of Prophecies near the end of of his life if he was practicing Judaism. That effort seems to be a rather extraneus public profession.

[Chubby]

((Yahoo (I know is not always the best source ))

I don't know about that but I am very fond of Yahoo's portfolio tracking software.