The WaPo On The Zimmerman Evidence - Are They Kidding?

The WaPo pretends to examine the newly released Zimmerman evidence. They get off to a promising start on the gunshot wound but deliver some dreadfullly incomplete information on other topics.

They lead well with the wound:

Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin from a very close range, according to documents a Florida prosecutor released Thursday that indicate a hand-to-hand struggle occurred before the teenager was killed.

A lab report, based on an examination of the two sweatshirts Martin was wearing, found holes and gunshot residue consistent with a “contact shot,” meaning the gun was pressed against Martin’s chest. An autopsy report said that the gunshot wound indicated he was shot from an “intermediate range,” which experts say is between one and 18 inches away.

MSNBC saw a contradiction between contact with the sweatshirt and intermediate range with the skin, so I am glad that some members of the media can sort this out.

However, their attempt to create drama and a sense that Zimmerman was brandishing his weapon and threatening Martin is abysmal journalism:

The documents include new details about what witnesses said they heard and saw that dark, rainy night outside their townhouse windows. One witness told police that he heard someone saying, “I’ve got a gun. I’ve got a gun.”

That is what the witness said and we will accept that is reflecting what the witness heard. However, that was *after* Zimmerman fired the fatal shot, when he had his hands up and was identifying himself to the approaching police officer. In fact (p. 41) the full quote is "I've got a gun, I've got a gun. Take my gun from me".  How did the WaPo miss that?

My understanding is that any concealed carry permit holder would endorse this approach - as a general rule, police don't like to be surprised to find a gun on someone. (Zimmerman still got cuffed, but he had to expect that.)

Comparably shameful is the mystery the WaPo creates around the question of who was heard screaming on the recorded 911 call:

Witness accounts indicate that in some cases, officers seemed to have rushed to judgment about one of the most critical questions in the case: who was screaming in the last seconds before the gunshot rang out.

One distraught witness, said she who regretted not helping the person yelling outside her window, said in her handwritten statement that an investigator tried to comfort her by saying that the cries for help “were not the person who died.”

A police report also concluded that the voice screaming in the background of a recorded 911 call placed by a resident was Zimmerman, “who was apparently yelling for help as he was being battered by Trayvon Martin.”

But an FBI audio analysis of that crucial call could not determine whether it was Martin or Zimmerman who was screaming, because of the poor quality of the recording and the “extreme emotional state” of the person screaming, an FBI report said.

Also included in the reports is an account of a meeting between an investigator and Tracy Martin two days after his son was shot. The investigator played the 911 call to Martin and asked him whether the voice calling for help was his son’s.

“Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded no,” the report said.

But in the days and weeks after the shooting, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, the teenager’s mother, said they had no doubt that the screams were those of their son. In an interview with an investigator, Zimmerman’s father said, “That is absolutely, positively George Zimmerman yelling for help.”

What the WaPo fails to report is that the Sanford PD had a witness who was thirty feet from the action and was crystal clear that the white or Hispanic guy in red was on bottom, getting beaten by a black guy, and screaming for help (p. 38). This is "John", who spoke to the local Fox station the day after the shooting and told a similar story to the police.

Ye, witnesses get confused, but the police hardly leapt to the conclusion that Zimmerman was screaming for help.

And from another perspective, Zimmerman has the injuries of a guy in trouble who might well need help. What would have prompted Martin to be screaming?

That is misleading and incomplete reporting by the WaPo.

Comments

[Buford Gooch]

The Narrative is slowly sliding out of their control. They are butt covering with a fury now, but they can't do it all at once, or they will look like the one-sided purveyors of twaddle they are.

[myiq2xu]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Redbrow]

I just listened to the Dee Dee interview. She is a bit of a mush mouth but I'm pretty sure she slipped up and admitted Trayvon went back after reaching Brandy Green's unit.

At around 8:40 she says " he loss him" 8:45 she says "he almost at his daddy house" at around 9:03 she says "he lost him" then " he started walking back again"

[torquewrench]

"That is misleading and incomplete reporting by the WaPo."

Do not mistake this for anything other than an entirely deliberate and carefully considered strategy. In service of specific political goals.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Now that I've been outed as
Karl Rove's Brain (and on the blog of an MIT economist, no less) I'm sure I can get all this cleared up;

I’ve done some extensive digging on Patrick R. Sullivan on the Internet – and it turns out he is a GOP operative that has been active in the blogosphere since 2004, and might be employed by American Crossroads (a GOP Super PAC). Here is the whale of them all: Patrick R. Sullivan is possibly directly affiliated with, or might even be, Karl Rove. Wow! Who would have thought someone like that would be trolling baselinescenario.com?

Why do I think this?

1. Patrick R. Sullivan’s blog was started in 2004. The special prosecutor assigned to the Valerie Plame Affair on December 30, 2003, is none other than Patrick Fitzgerald. The pen name “Patrick R. Sullivan” was likely used in reference to him. The Irish last name “Sullivan” may also have been used to attack John Kerry with an Irish sounding name to gain legitimacy. “R” might even stand for “Rove.”

[Berry]

I have to say, I dont know if its the clashing colours or the bad grammar, but this blog is hideous! I mean, I dont want to sound like a know-it-all or anything, but could you have possibly put a little bit more effort into this subject. Its really interesting, but you dont represent it well at all, man.

[myiq2xu]

Fashion police and grammar nazi in one?

[Some guy]

TM did you happen notice what section of the WaPo this article appeared?

Even the WaPo couldn't put this in an actual news section of the paper. NYT would, but the WaPo has pretensions of being newspaper.

[Redbrow]

Berry | May 18, 2012 at 02:59 AM

If you are referring to the grammar in my post, I was attempting to make a transcript as accurately as possible. Dee Dee is very difficult to understand and has horrible grammar, even by American standards.

Please keep in mind that there is also no way to edit posts.

[MJW]

I asked this on the previous thread, and I'll repeat it here. Not because I necessarily thing I'm on to something; I'm just curious.

In the WFTV video, what occurs at 8:18? It looks to me like Martin puts a cigarette of some sort in his mouth. Am I seeing things?

[MJW]

...necessarily think...

[Redbrow]

I wonder why no other media sites are including the audio of the 7/11 video like the BBC did. You can hear that Trayvon has a deep voice when he answers the phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaOiLm5Lwc&feature=channel&list=UL

[Adjoran]

"misleading and incomplete reporting by the WaPo" is a given - for their more objective work. That's why they lost over $22 million in the first quarter this year, why circulation is down an aggregate 7% year-to-year, and ad revenue is down over 17%.

After Pinch Sulzberger turned the NYT into a pure propaganda organ, WaPo had the opportunity to become the "national paper of record" to succeed them. Instead, they chose to follow the path of NYT and other old media, marching hard to the left and away from accountability and accuracy.

[daddy]

Trayvon is definitely messed up in the WFTV 7/11 Video.

The first video shows that his pants are slung low like some low rider hipster, with the sort of Levi jeans tag pulled way down till it's hanging below his right ass cheek, so he has to yank his pants up again to be able to walk out of the store. Can't tell if it's his underwear or a shirt that we're seeing above the top of his lowered trousers.

In the face-on second clip, he is definitely a mess trying to get his change out of his pants, which keep sinking lower and lower as he rummages through his pockets, not like some 17 year old great athlete, but instead of like some stoned out bum.

In the last of the camera recordings you can see that the clerk acts as if Trayvon is very weird and bears watching, especially at the end when Trayvon wanders back and forth from the cash register to the exit, back inside toward the drink coolers, then back on out the exit. If that is the behavior Zimmermann observed I can certainly understand his pertinent comment to the 911 operator about Trayvon's strange behavior.

And MJW it does look like he keeps sticking something in his mouth.

As for the WaPo, I long ago lost any expectation that they have either the will or the ability to report accurately.

[Redbrow]

I think he is just moving the mic from his phone headset closer to his mouth and/or pressing a button to answer the phone.

In the youtube video from the BBC I posted, you can hear him answer the phone.

[MJW]

You're probably right Redbow. I should have realized that. It did seem to strange to be true

[MJW]

...too strange...

Darned typos!

[Sara]

Thanks daddy, I couldn't watch the video all the way through. After the first segment, I was so sad to think that this young man would be dead within the hour.

[daddy]

Absolutely Sara,

It was sad to watch knowing that. Now that I read that he was wearing a headset and taking a call, maybe that could partially explain his apparent distractedness and difficulty in accomplishing simple tasks, but regardless of the reason the tapes do show a guy distracted and having difficulty accomplishing simple tasks.

[cboldt]

-- I just listened to the Dee Dee interview. --

So, it sounds like the state's evidence is all out, except for the interviews with Zimmerman. Those are being withheld from the public and from Zimmerman on the grounds they are "confessions."

The conclusion of the Serino affidavit, that Zimmerman should be charged, is based on the novel legal theory that getting out of the truck was provocation; or that not announcing oneself as a concerned citizen is provocation. Either way, Zimmerman could have avoided the encountered by not getting out of his truck.

Other have suggested applying the same Serino lens to Martin, and now we have DeeDee's testimony to facilitate just that. According to DeeDee, Martin turned around to close distance with Zimmerman, instead of going home. Martin could have avoided the encounter by going home; or, in the alternative , announcing that he was staying in the neighborhood.

[cboldt]

-- TM did you happen notice what section of the WaPo this article appeared? --

The link is to a section titled "Politics."

Yes, that's where the WaPo put it in the online edition, under "Politics."

[narciso]

The phrase is TM; 'Shirley they can't be serious'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/romney-distances-himself-from-racially-fueled-proposal-to-attack-obama/2012/05/17/gIQAvgx6WU_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pop

Grandparent's polygamy and the previous tenets of the mormon faith, apparently in the 50 yard linel

[DebinNC]

except for the interviews with Zimmerman. Those are being withheld from the public and from Zimmerman

Huh?

[narciso]

Ah and the Friedman wannabe wants to chime in;

Ah, and http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-broken-promises-on-taxes-and-health-care/2012/05/16/gIQAXgfZUU_blog.html

[Jim Eagle]

cboldt,

A now newer version of "all politcs is local".

Agree with daddy - he is stoned in that vid. If not that then pretty drunk.

This cannot be going well for the Ben Crump camp. Every little nugget must feel like a heavy stone hitting them right between the eyes. Notice that Al and Jesse are particulary quiet.

[narciso]

I think she was hired during the 'Summarizing
Proust competition' they held some years ago;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/you-pick-metrosexual-black-abe-lincoln-jeremiah-wright-and-the-worst-attack-ad-ever-or-the-worst-attack-ad-of-all-time/2012/05/17/gIQAIyr0WU_blog.html

[narciso]

And then the 'loyal opposition' chimes in;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/wright-obsession-wrong-coverage/2012/05/17/gIQAEMCvWU_blog.html

[narciso]

An older story, that BI has glommed onto recently, with a sense of irony;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertynews/8677502/Saudi-Arabia-takes-step-to-build-worlds-tallest-tower.html

[cboldt]

-- except for the interviews with Zimmerman. ... --

If that material was provided to Zimmerman, it would also be provided to the public. The discovery rule does provide that the defendant be given "any written or recorded statements and the substance of any oral statements made by the defendant, including a copy of any statements contained in police reports or report summaries" (3.220(b)(1)(C)), but Jeralyn Merritt noted that confessions are exempt from this. I'll have to look up the rule or legal rationale for that exemption.

[cboldt]

Zimmerman Discovery Released - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime, May 17, 2012

What has not been released are George Zimmerman's statements. They are exempt from public records disclosures as "confessions."

So, from that, the state has to turn the material over to Zimmerman, but does not have a legal obligation to make it public. Zimmerman can make it public, if he wants to. Next stop would be Florida's public records law, for the section that exempts confessions from public disclosure.

Mea culpa, that all material to be turned over to defendant is also a public record.

[DebinNC]

Thanks, cboldt. It makes me think there are some obvious inconsistencies or oddities in GZ's police statements which O'Mara doesn't want potential jurors via the press to know about.

[AliceH]

Is there a go-to site with links to all these docs, recordings, videos in one place yet?

If not, how about just a link to the DeeDee interview?

[cboldt]

-- It makes me think there are some obvious inconsistencies or oddities in GZ's police statements which O'Mara doesn't want potential jurors via the press to know about. --

I don't think there are any such inconsistencies. I haven't read the public records law for the treatment of confessions, but it could be that Corey is properly following law on this point.

Gilbreath suggested the inconsistencies, as injuries not commensurate with the beating described (should have been more injury); and elsewhere there have been reports that SPD doubted Zimmerman's story because the assertion that Martin said "You're going to die" or similar seemed contrived; and that Zimmerman's account that Martin circled the truck did not appear during Zimmerman's call to police dispatch.

I think that is the extent of the inconsistencies and doubts, pertaining to Zimmerman's account.

[cboldt]

-- Is there a go-to site with links to all these docs, recordings, videos in one place yet? --

Jeralyn Merritt links to such a site, and she is also going to obtain access to the same material the press has so she can put full context to press reports. For example, Jeralyn says the public has 5 minutes of DeeDee, but the full recording is 30 minutes.

[Bruce]

The discovery rule does provide that the defendant be given "any written or recorded statements and the substance of any oral statements made by the defendant, including a copy of any statements contained in police reports or report summaries" (3.220(b)(1)(C)), but Jeralyn Merritt noted that confessions are exempt from this. I'll have to look up the rule or legal rationale for that exemption.

At a very basic level, it makes no sense whatsoever to exclude confessions from what is due the defense. These are often done without presence of counsel, and are likely to be the centerpiece of many a prosecution. Is the idea that the prosecution needs something to spring on the defense, just to keep them on their toes?

[DebinNC]

So, from that, the state has to turn the material over to Zimmerman, but does not have a legal obligation to make it public

Thanks. That makes sense then. That O'Mara would choose not to receive GZ's statements didn't.

[Captain Hate]

Ah and the Friedman wannabe wants to chime in

Orwell would be amused by the use of the term "fact checking"

[cboldt]

(e) Any information revealing the substance of a confession of a person arrested is exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution, until such time as the criminal case is finally determined by adjudication, dismissal, or other final disposition.

FS 119.071 - General exemptions from inspection or copying of public records.

I suspect the purpose of this exemption is to protect defendant from public disclosure of confessions that may be later suppressed, as public disclosure may prejudice a jury. I don't find that purpose to be at play, here, and actually object to Zimmerman's responses to interrogation to be in the nature of a "confession." He is describing why he felt justified in taking the actions he did, not confessing to doing something illegal.

[Bruce]

Gilbreath suggested the inconsistencies, as injuries not commensurate with the beating described (should have been more injury); and elsewhere there have been reports that SPD doubted Zimmerman's story because the assertion that Martin said "You're going to die" or similar seemed contrived; and that Zimmerman's account that Martin circled the truck did not appear during Zimmerman's call to police dispatch.

I have wondered whether this claim was a remnant of Zimmerman's concealed carry class - that if you are involved in a shooting, that it is advantageous under the FL self-defense statutes to show fear of imminent major bodily injury or death, and that a death threat is often sufficient.

This is mere conjecture, of course. And, I don't think that if it turned out that Martin didn't verbally threaten Zimmerman for his life, that it would really diminish that much the latter's self-defense claim, except maybe make immunity a bit harder.

[cboldt]

Jeralyn doesn't link to a comprehensive site. She notes that she has paid to get access to the site the state has established for the media.

She does, however, provide links to newspaper resources for the 183 page pdf, photos, and 5 minutes of DeeDee.

[Captain Hate]

In case anybody thought Jeopardy was just an off night: http://weaselzippers.us/2012/05/17/tingles-romney-trashing-obamas-race-by-bringing-up-jeremiah-wright-mocking-black-history-month/

[DebinNC]

Jeralyn Merritt's GZ section

[cboldt]

-- I don't think that if it turned out that Martin didn't verbally threaten Zimmerman for his life, that it would really diminish that much the latter's self-defense claim, except maybe make immunity a bit harder. --

From either his father or brother, we get Zimmerman saying that the gun was revealed when Zimmerman shifted so head blows would land on the grass; and that Martin was trying to smother him. I assume these two actions are both near the end of the fight, and Zimmerman's account likely doesn't distinguish, between the two, puts him in fear. It's all happening at once, and he fears for his life or brain injury.

There is no evidence to contradict the death threat. The evidence that supposedly contradicts the smothering is screaming heard right up to or nearly up to the sound of the gun going off. That's been discussed, in that anybody not being effectively smothered can be screaming, for example, maybe Martin is making attack or victory sounds.

Zimmerman's account does the most to describe the entire sequence of events. I think we'll see it within a week or two. Maybe some suggestions at the GZLegalDefense site will be met with favor.

[AliceH]

Okay. I gather that my preferred structure for organizing data is not currently available and that if I want a "go to" link that meets my "requirements", I'll just have to make one. Not something I can do today, though. The links provided thus far are a great start - thanks.

[DebinNC]

Miami Herald: "Telecommunications records were not released because they were considered exempt from the public records law. In a court filing earlier this week, prosecutors said they plan to present as part of their case Zimmerman's cell phone text messages, photos and videos from the weeks after Trayvon's controversial death."
...........................................
It also says DeeDee told police Trayvon was sheltering from the rain at the clubhouse. GZ probably couldn't see TM's headset and was unaware he was on the phone, which I bet partially explains why he found TM's behavior suspicious. He may have been walking to and fro hands-free, gesturing and talking animatedly to DeeDee, and GZ, not realizing TM was on the phone, thought he was a nut.

[cboldt]

-- In a court filing earlier this week, prosecutors said they plan to present as part of their case Zimmerman's cell phone text messages, photos and videos from the weeks after Trayvon's controversial death. --

That's the Miami Herald making things up. The state disclosed what it had as potential trial evidence, not that it planned to use all of it at trial. For all we know, the texts, videos, and photos are utterly inconsequential, or, more likely, exculpatory in nature.

[jimmyk]

GZ, not realizing TM was on the phone, thought he was a nut.

Possible, but in the realm of speculation. What's not speculation is that TM had THC in his bloodstream, so he was "on drugs or something."

[Janet]

from the last thread...
MJW posted this - "Regarding the Obama bio blurb. In Dreams From My Father, Obama mentions going past the Hawaiian hospital he was born in, which is at odds with him claiming Kenyan birth. I only have access to the second edition, but I assume that's also in the original edition. (If not, it would be, in the words of our vice-president, a big f'ing deal.)"

Here is the bit on page 100 in Dreams -
"...during the day on drives around the island or on short walks past the private landmarks of a family: the lot where my father's apartment had once stood; the remodeled hospital where I had been born; my grandparents' first house in Hawaii,..."

Did anyone read Dreams? Apparently not him or his literary agent!

[cboldt]

-- At a very basic level, it makes no sense whatsoever to exclude confessions from what is due the defense. --

My mistake saying they were. Sorry for the confusion. Defendant gets them, the public doesn't. I also find that calling the interrogations "confessions" strikes me as "wrong" in this case, but technically, it may be that everything a defendant says to police is put in that pigeonhole to make administration simpler.

[Jimmy]

I would yell to the cops "I've got a gun"....You should say,"I have a license to carry concealed"........

[Clarice]

"Notice that Al and Jesse are particulary quiet."

Also duda, kaka and the others...

Oh, to bring back the halcyon days of the kid in the hoodie fable.

[cboldt]

I see the source of confusion .. my "this" following the discovery rule was meant to mean exempt from public records disclosure, not exempt from turnover to defendant.

[Mike]

I have no doubt Zimmerman will be charged by the so called "Dept of Justice" with murder. The racist Eric Holder has said his job is to take care of "his people". That includes any non-black that has the racist audacity to defend himself against a black persons assault.

[Rickroberts]

Buford, your comment about the narrative sliding out of control is spot on. What a beauty it is to behold. It’s like Christmas!

[Janet]

OT -
An interesting post from Tito Munoz on Facebook about his attending the 11th District Convention here in VA this Sat.-

"...I took another Saturday off last month to participate in the PWC convention, which also cost my business and there are other business owners like me who share this problem. We are supposed to be a Party that understands the needs of small businesses, believers in limited government and reduced red tape. We need to simplify the rules and make the conventions shorter and easier to attend. Do we want to grow the Republican Party and try to motivate and include as many hard working people as possible? Or do we want a system that is complicated and exclusive?"

bold mine.

[Specter]

The local news here covered this story a bit. While they told us about the evidence that shows Zimmerman had a broken nose and cuts on the back of his head, the visual they had up most of the time was Zimmerman sometime after his arrest and Martin's picture as a 12 yo - the angelic one.

[xyz]

Zimmerman: "This Will All Work Out For Me"
MAY 17--Days before bonding out of a Florida jail, George Zimmerman wrote that he believed “this will all work out for me in the future,” adding, “I have given my burden to the Lord and he has blessed me with tremendous patience!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/george-zimmerman-jail-letter-354759

[NK]

I've been a notorious skeptic around here about the self-defense claim until the evidence was out. Well it's out now. What are the pretty obvious inferences:
1. TMartin was a dealin' stoner, he was a bit high, he doubled back and punched GZ in the face, then jumped on him and beat him; 2. GZ shot him from close range, 1-4 feet, just the distance you'd expect from a man on his back; 3. The cops have a lot of slightly inconsistent statements from GZ (that's a logical guess)4. Det. Serino wanted to nail GZ from the beginning, so he strung him along that night, kept him talking to create a record of inconsistent statements5. The only probable cause the cops have ever had is that GZ "got out of his truck" in the first place. That's it. 6. Serino used leaks to the Martin family to undermine Chief Lee and State prosecutor Wolfinger because they disagreed with him about charging. That's what we've been bickering about, a 17yo low level stoner, a good guy who made a mistake and got too involved, an obnoxious cop who would not take no for an answer, and the worst of all, a petty tyrant arrogant prosecutor who is currying favor with a new voting block. That's the odd case of Trayvon Martin.

[Stephuf]

Alice, go here and read the updates, it's all there, tons of research. Should shorten your time by sticking with updates.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

[matt]

about to spend the day in the swamps of Louisiana reviewing some of our fine warriors. Could they have done this in early April for goodness sake? It's 90+ at 0800.

Sounds like the case for the prosecution is becoming a bit of a sieve. Trayvon with a little reefer in his system; Zimmerman banged up; discussion of MMA beatdowns. Hmmmmm...

Paging Al Sharpton to the white courtesy phone....

[NK]

Mike@836 is right: IF GZ wins immunity (the inconsistent statements probably will make that difficult) Holder will immediately indict GZ in Federal Court. Holder will use the nonsense that Corey started in the Arrest Affidavit that GZ violated TM's civil rights by racially 'profiling him' and "leaving the truck' to follow and stalk a young black man. Holder is disgusting enough to happily do that.

[Danube of Thought]

Dershowitz has a column in today's Daily News calling for the murder charge to be dropped.

[Jim Eagle]

cboldt,

In an Immunity Hearing will GZ have to testify? Or can the defense present the evidence of self-defense meeting the requirements of SYG and let that evidence speak for itself?

[NK]

What does Judge Lester do? I sincerely hope he slow walks this case so the Immunity decision comes after elections, or even after 'Bam is out of office.

[Jim Eagle]

NK,

Regarding your penultimate sentance in your 8:51. Corey has already lost her "new voting block" in her own jurisdiction. By Marissa Alexander getting the 20, the black population is up in arms led by Congressidiot Corinne Brown (D-Stupidville). No other voting block in central Florida or the Miami-Dade metrople matters for Corey unless she thinks this is a stepping stone to running for AG. Which I see her having no chance of even winning a primary. She has become the new Charlie Crist to the right thinking folks of Florida as well as the black voting block.

[GMAX]

This is exactly what I have been thinking for days, that our tax policy is driving our most productive members to think about other places to live ( simply due to the obnoxius tax environment ). Why should there be places that have lower taxation than the wealthy country on the planet. One reason I can think of Socialists who sometimes use the term Democrat. Here:

“It is the foolish and counter-productive tax policies of the left that are chasing Eduardo Saverin to another country, just as they are chasing companies away in increasing numbers. It is even more foolish to punish those people for leaving — what we should do is stop punishing them with high taxes so that they stay. We need to compete against the likes of Singapore. Singapore doesn’t make enemies of its most dynamic entrepreneurs and instead adopts pro-growth policies rationally aimed at improving everyone’s living standards. Naturally, when other countries adopt rational tax regimes, those countries with irrational ones (likes us) are put at a terrible disadvantage, but it’s our own fault. In particular it’s the fault of those who now propose the ‘Eduardo Law.’”

[NK]

Florida Immunity motions are the 'opposite' of the criminal trial. To win Immunity the defendant has to affirmatively prove SD by a preponderance of the evidence (51%), to deny Immunity the State has to only poke enough holes in the defendant's claim to convince the judge the defendant did not prove SD. Obviously, the LESS evidence the defendant puts in, the harder is it to prove SD by 51%. But there's no formula here, the only question is how does GZ prove SD to Judge Lester. He'll be the most important guy in the Courtroom on Immunity-- he decides.

[NK]

JiB-- thanks for the local political knowledge. That means Corey is arrogant, tyrannical and an idiot. BTW-- anybody down there writing that Serino undermined Lee and Wolfinger with leaks to the Martins and Crump? That's one of my inferences - but I think it's pretty clear.

[centralcal]

Congrats again to Hit - His photo of Obama editing Rutherford B. Hayes' bio made it to Geraghty's Campaign Spot.

[Ignatz]

--2. GZ shot him from close range, 1-4 feet, just the distance you'd expect from a man on his back;--

I think that supposition is likely incorrect, NK.
As Tom and others pointed out earlier Martin's clothing and skin evidence, taken together, indicate a point blank or 'contact' shot is more likely, with his layers of clothing absorbing the 'contact' burns, causing the skin evidence to suggest a more 'intermediate' range.

[GMAX]

Anyone expect an apology for being called all sorts of names including racist, by the likes of bubu, duda or kaka? Please dont hold your breath, there is not an EMT working JOM at the moment...

[Danube of Thought]

I don't think DeeDee can testify about Trayvon's movements (hearsay).

[Jay]

NK,

There is no evidence Serino wanted to charge Zimmerman. That account of events was categorically denied by the police department and Serino refused to comment.

[Rick Ballard]

I'd like to see an endless loop of Trayvon Martin at the 7-11 with a voiceover of the President's adoption. He really does look as if he could be the President's son.

[Jim Eagle]

Is that you, BuBu?

[Cecil Turner]

What's not speculation is that TM had THC in his bloodstream, so he was "on drugs or something."

My son said: "that's because Zimmerman injected drugs into him after he shot him." I'm raising a snark.

[Ignatz]

--Anyone expect an apology for being called all sorts of names including racist, by the likes of bubu, duda or kaka? Please dont hold your breath, there is not an EMT working JOM at the moment...--

Are you effing kidding?
Go look at the Zimmerman Case-Evidence Released But Where thread.
Kumquat and buub both make appearances with buub's entry particularly risible.

[NK]

Ig-- I'm sure your right about the forensic details. I'm not an expert in firearms forensics, I'm just drawing inferences from the press acounts. As a firearms layman, to me, close range is inches, a few feet, ARMS LENGTH i.e. during the onesided fight with GZ on his back and TM on top. The forensics completely corroborate GZ's story-- that's my inference.

[Jim Ryan]

Rick, by Barry's own account, he was always in a stupor of cocaine and marijuana when he was Trayvon's age. So, the comparison is apt. However, Trayvon, in contrast, only had the wherewithal to oppress a single individual and his strategy was cruder than Barry's.

[GMAX]

Professor Jacobsen of Cornel Law School in his own words, unfiltered:

It’s legally irrelevant that the encounter could have been avoided if Zimmerman stayed in his car. The Stand Your Ground law talks about initiating physical contact in a very specific way (emphasis mine):

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Getting out of the car, in itself, is not provoking the use of force. The prosecution would have to show Zimmerman started the fight, not merely that he was in a place he has a right to be.

Even so, Zimmerman would have had legal protection even if he initiated contact if the counter-force were deadly or threatened serious bodily harm and there was no way to escape. There would be a fact issue if, as some reports say, Zimmerman were on the ground being beaten.

These nuances will be lost in the media blitz, and you will hear how Zimmerman must be guilty because he got out of the car.

Any questions?

[jimmyk]

That's the odd case of Trayvon Martin.

You left out

7. A lying and duplicitous mainstream media that abandoned any pretense of objectivity to prejudge Zimmerman and to incite racial conflict.

The discussion of the case itself is becoming tedious, I must say, because almost everything has been said multiple times on both sides. I do wish someone would document the hundreds of instances of outright lies by the media, beyond the obvious ones like NBC's famous edit. I'm talking about statements of "fact" that have no basis, such as "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin despite being told not to." Every single instance goes against Zimmerman, a textbook example of bias if there ever was one.

[Rob Crawford]

I've been a notorious skeptic around here about the self-defense claim until the evidence was out.

No, you've assumed Zimmerman was guilty and that all the lawyers were as innocent of political influence as a newborn babe.

[Rob Crawford]

I sincerely hope he slow walks this case so the Immunity decision comes after elections, or even after 'Bam is out of office.

I hope he throws out the case and refers Corey and Crump to the state bar.

[GMAX]

Is it even remotely possible that Hawaiian goverment officials conspired to present a valid birth certificate for Zero? My head says NO, that the number of folks that would have to be in on the conspiracy would be way too large for someone not to spill the beans, but then I would not have believed a massive conspiracy to lie to us all about Global Warming without having hundreds of e-mails documenting just that. Still this one cant be correct, can it?

[NK]

Jay-- Serino's conduct is my inference; he is the major crimes detective in SPD, there was some controversey in SPD that night about whether to charge, somebody gave the Martins and Crump SPD info-- I don't think Lee or Wolfinger did, so my inference is the lead detective did. Can't prove that, it's just an inference I draw from the circumstances.
JimmyK-- goes without saying that the media and racialists are the bad guys in this. But it's what they do. Corey's worse IMO, she's suppposedly a responsible public official.

[chas]

I've been a notorious skeptic around here about the self-defense claim until the evidence was out.
Posted by: NK | May 18, 2012 at 08:51 AM

still stand by calling me a moron yesterday? i noticed when challenged you tucked tail and ran. if you wont retract i still defy you to show how anything i said was moronic or even wrong.

[Mark Folkestad]

Why is it so difficult for reporters to keep things straight? On Fox News, just now, Phil Keating, in summing up the released evidence, said that George Zimmerman's father at first said that the screaming was not his son, and then changed his mind. Dammit! The senior Zimmerman always said the screamer was his son. It was Tracy Martin who changed his opinion on whether or not Trayvon was the screamer.

[Rick Ballard]

"that all the lawyers were as innocent of political influence"

Not true, RC. NK pegged Corey's political decision to prosecute while I, among others, held out some hope that the law might enter into her decision making process. IMO - she's as low as Crump and Rick Scott's appointment of her in this case should preclude any political support for him. I'll be rooting for a successful primary challenge in a couple of years and if he hopes that fading memory will save his sorry ass he's going to be disappointed.

[GMAX]

Rob Crawford at 9:28 X 2. You dont get to rewrite weeks of history here with a few pixels...

[dublindave]

The saddest part is the conclusion drawn by the Sandford police that Trayvon's death was "ultimately unavoidable".George followed a 16 year old-sorry 16 year old who had just turn 17-at night and things got out of control,thus giving him a chance to use his gun(something I suspect he'd wanted to do for a long time).

And this is why I ask the question;if George walks away from yet another violent attack charge,will he continue following 16 year old boys at night while carrying a loaded gun?

If he does then bad things will continue to happen.

[cas127]

The MSM has gone from decades long political bias to active and energetic *evil*.

(Remember, FL is a swing state that the O Administration desperately needs - and therefore needs a huge black turnout in).

[NK]

RobC-- I think you know I haven't assumed guilt, but I'll leave it to you to honestly look at the comment record here. Judge Lester's timing?-- if he quickly grants Immunity, say in September, Holder will bring Federal charges immediately, and this circus continues-- I hope this all slows down, and in January, Lester quitely grants immunity. The State then brings a weak appeal, and sometime in 2013, GZ is free to live his life as best he can. That's what I hope.

[Jay]

This Serino investigator was either smeared by ABC news or flip-flopped on the case:

Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."

[Clarice]

Marijuana may not induce paranoia as Sara says but it can certainly impair judgment which is why it is included in DUI laws. I suspect TM was not thinking too clearly on the night he was killed.

[cboldt]

-- In an Immunity Hearing will GZ have to testify? Or can the defense present the evidence of self-defense meeting the requirements of SYG and let that evidence speak for itself? --

I believe the defendant is allowed to make a sworn statement of facts in his motion to dismiss, and that there is no obligation for the defendant to take the stand.

The defendant can also call witnesses, and those are subject to direct and cross examination. Same with the state, as it works to rebut the claim of justified use of force in self defense.

[Chubby]

((Is it even remotely possible that Hawaiian goverment officials conspired to present a valid birth certificate for Zero? ))

GMAX, I don't think there needs to be a vast conspiracy of fraud because I think Hawaii around the time Obama was born could officially grant Hawaiian birth certificates to persons born elsewhere. It is an odd loophole that the birthers claim, and I don't know if Hawaii can still do that.

[Jim Eagle]

According to local (Jax) sources, Corey has a reputation for "over-charging" and using the power of her office to get convictions. For example, in the Marissa Alexander case, she had 9 State's attorney's assembled to try the case against one public defender. She can overwhelm where as the defendant's are usually income challenged and subject to public defenders and limited resources. That is my understanding from hearing 2 Duval County resident defense lawyers yacking on the radio. IOW, she will throw the kitchen sink at the defense and leave it up to the judge and jury after the full barrage.

[cboldt]

-- There is no evidence Serino wanted to charge Zimmerman. --

I think Serino's report can be read that way, as he asserts Zimmerman could have avoided the incident by staying in his truck or by informing Martin that he was a concerned citizen.

But I agree this evidence doesn't establish Serino's state of mind. He may have been directed to put that in, or more generally directed to put something in sounded like a basis for finding the elements of the suggested manslaughter charge.

[Threadkiller]

Pick-A-Conspiracy

" Abercrombie has since backed off his boast that he would prove Obama's birth this week, since Hawaii law prevents personal information such as birth records to be released.

Evans went on to tell KQRS that he talked "with Neil's office, Neil says that he's searched everywhere using his power as governor" at the two hospitals Obama was likely born at in 1961 - Kapiolani Medical Center and Queens Medical Center - only to come up empty.

"There is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii," Evans claimed he was told by the governor's office. "Absolutely no proof that he was born in Hawaii... now [Abercrombie] admits, publically, that there is no birth certificate."

Evans now says it was all a big misunderstanding.

"This I can you tell you is 100% fact," he told Fox News. "Neil never told me there was no birth certificate... I never talked to him."

Evans told the Daily News in an e-mail that he was "STUNNED!" when his statements appeared in headlines nationwide.

"I NEVER knew I said it until I heard it," he wrote, adding that he feels "embarrassed" by the entire incident. "NO MORE POLITICS FOR ME!!" the entertainment journalist said. "For now on, I'm sticking with Lindsay Lohan and Snookie stuff."

Evans told the News it was an online article with a misleading headline that had caused him to even call Abercrombie's office.

The article cited an interview the governor had done with the Honolulu Star-Advertiser, during which he mentioned Obama's birth certificate.

However, while the article "suggests" the governor said he could not find the birth certificate, he never makes any such statement in the Star-Advertiser interview. In fact, he indicates that a record of Obama's birth does exist.

"It actually exists in the archives, written down," he said, although it is unclear what kind of record he is referring to."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-01-27/news/27738132_1_barack-obama-president-obama-birth-certificate

1. Abercrombie was told to back off

2. Evans was told to back off

3. Sheridan was told to back off

One thing is consistent, a claim of seeing Obama's "vital records" has always been made. Although all birth certificates are vital records, not all vital records are birth certificates.

[Chubby]

GMAX, if he was born in Kenya, the likely scenario would be, as soon as the mother returned to the U.S. she filed for the Hawaiian birth certificate. Another interesting detail is that classifed ads automatically went into the newspapers on issuance of all birth certicates. And there has always been confusion about what Hawaiian hospital he was born in.