Zimmerman Case - "Contact Shot" Versus "Intermediate Range"

MSNBC has not had time to do their homework with the Zimmerman evidence dump [but the WaPo did; see UPDATE]:

But the documents give contradictory assessments of how far away Zimmerman was when he shot Martin. 

Lab tests by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Orlando operations center concluded that residue tests on Martin's sweatshirt were "consistent with a contact shot" — that is, one in which the muzzle of the weapon is physically touching the victim.

But the autopsy report from the Volusia County (Fla.) Medical Examiner's office reached a different conclusion based on examination of the wound itself, saying, "This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range."

The report doesn't define "intermediate range."

As several commenters explained to us yesterday, when a pistol or rifle is fired the projectile, gunpowder (including unburned powder) and expanding gases all exit the barrel.  If the victim is close enough to the barrel, the projectile as well as gunpowder particles and gas residue will end up on, or in, the victim. If the victim is more than a few feet away, the shot is "distant" and only the projectile will make impact [Ref 1, 2].

Intermediate Range Definition: Hot powder grains accompany bullet to wound site & are driven into skin, leaving small red marks on skin - stippling/tattooing

Short & Close Range Definition: Bullet hole, stippling & soot present

Contact Range Definition: Bullet hole, muzzle burn mark & impression of firearm present; loose fit - near contact; cornea of soot may be present where weapon not placed directly against skin

Direct contact is pretty obvious when the gun is against the skin. However, as one report explained, an "intermediate" result would occur even over a distance of an inch or two if the victim was wearing clothing or standing, for example, behind a door because most of the powder and gas would be blocked by the obstacle.

So in the current situation there is no contradiction at all - the FDLE placed the gun directly on Martin's sweatshirt (beneath which he had on a t-shirt); the medical examiner, looking just at the body, saw powder residue and stippling consistent with an intermediate range, which would be explained by the two layers of clothing.

ERRATA: Per the police report (p. 16 .pdf) the bullet casing was recovered in the grass. Someone cared, I don't recall why. I do recall Mr. Turner gloating, however, so this "Told you so" thing must be catching.

UPDATE: The WaPo lead:

Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin from a very close range, according to documents a Florida prosecutor released Thursday that indicate a hand-to-hand struggle occurred before the teenager was killed.

A lab report, based on an examination of the two sweatshirts Martin was wearing, found holes and gunshot residue consistent with a “contact shot,” meaning the gun was pressed against Martin’s chest. An autopsy report said that the gunshot wound indicated he was shot from an “intermediate range,” which experts say is between one and 18 inches away.

Comments

[PaulV]

Black Democrat KKK Lynch Mob goes after the Octoroon Hispanic

[Jd]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

This site is loaded with maps and timelines.

[Redbrow]

Could somebody please point out where in the transcript the police dispatcher mentions ANYTHING about staying in the car OR returning to the car?

Why do so many act as if he was commanded to turn tail and run as fast as he could back to his truck, lock all doors and windows, close his eyes and assume the fetal position.

The dispatcher simply suggested that George need not follow. George said 'OK' and stopped. There is no evidence he continued to follow or confront. The prosecutor has admitted, under oath, that no evidence exists which proves otherwise.

[Redbrow]

Could those of you who believe the suggestion "we don't need you to do that" is a direct command that GZ is legally bound to obey (and did obey after saying OK), explain why you completely ignore "the supreme commander's" other orders.

From the transcript: "Let me know if he does anything, OK?" and "We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else."

If you believe he is 'legally bound' to obey all of the 911 dispatcher's orders, then exactly how is he supposed to report on whether TM does anything else if he does not observe him?

[MarkO]

This might even outstrip Duke LAX.

[Danube of Thought]

Sitemeter confirms Dana Gilbert Ward of Pitzer College at 08:37.

Kudos to all JOMers for recognizing, and declining to respond to, this lonely, malevolent man.

[Theo]

Red --

IF you start with the premise that GZ must be at fault -- the young black male is dead, so the other guy must be at fault -- then the "he left the truck" is about all there is. It is true that if GZ had not left his SUV, TM would be alive. It is too inconvenient to have to deal with anything else, like who struck who first or who was on top pounding whose head into the sidewalk. If GZ stays in the truck, this does not happen.

Of course, if you do not have a need to find GZ at fault without regard to the facts, this seems a bit odd. All sorts of things, by both GZ and TM, could have prevented this.

[MarkO]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[MarkO]

LeBron misses free throw.

[Cecil Turner]

This is interesting (p. 27):

At 1916 hours, a 911 call, placed by [redacted] was received where Zimmerman can be heard can be heard in the background frantically yelling for help.

So basically the police are accepting as a given that the man yelling is Zimmerman. A little later there's this bit:

The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern. There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.

You mean before he went all MMA on Zimmerman, right?

[Danube of Thought]

From Hot Air:

"Update (Allahpundit): Miriam Goderich, who helped represent Obama at the same literary agency, issued this statement to Political Wire:

“'You’re undoubtedly aware of the brouhaha stirred up by Breitbart about the erroneous statement in a client list Acton & Dystel published in 1991 (for circulation within the publishing industry only) that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time. There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.'"

The issue is not really where he was born. The issue is how he can run for president, get elected, and serve for 3 1/2 without a single Watchdog of the Fourth Estate ever surfacing and questioning this public-domain document.

[Jay]

The report doesn't define "intermediate range."

An oversight?

"Both holes [in sweatshirt and hoodie] display residues and physical effects consistent with a contact shot"

Says the report...

[Thomas Collins]

Goderich is in line for a nice payoff from Axelplouffe. Better than whatever Composite Julia is getting.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

Bingo, DOT. The bio in the brochure was unchanged for a very long time. Crickets from the fourth estate.

[Rick Ballard]

"was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle"

1. Stayed in bed that morning
2. Worked overtime until 9PM
3. Waited another hour before going to the store
4. Worn a blindfold
5. Taken the back exit

As I mentioned, we have a rather amazing range of possibilities regarding application of a rudimentary logical fallacy. The actions of Officer T. A. Smith and the dispatcher have a lot of potential.

NOTE: No post hoc ergo propter hoc suppositions should be made concerning Martin's assault upon Zimmerman. That would be rank racism.

[Walter]

DoT, prickly though you may be, you set a good example for us all.

What is bugging me the most about these results is that it harms the argument that Mary J is safer because it leads to fewer aggressive incidents than alcohol. Probably still true on average, though.

[Cecil Turner]

Again on page 39:

I reviewed the 911 calls, specifically 20120571669, placed by [redacted] In the background I could clearly hear a male's voice yelling either "Help" or "Help Me", fourteen (14) times in an approximately 38 second time span. This voice was determined to be that of George Zimmerman, who was apparently yelling for help as he was being battered by Trayvon Martin. [emphasis added]

I'm having a very hard time seeing how the prosecutor could even suggest the yelling was by Martin.

[rse]

Walter-did she see that hiking guide I posted for you this morning?

[Rmoney Voter]

Was not direct contact, or powder would be in chest cavity. Probably w/i arms reach.

[bgates]

This whole thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman had simply not given a damn if his neighbors were being robbed.

[Ranger]

The issue is not really where he was born. The issue is how he can run for president, get elected, and serve for 3 1/2 without a single Watchdog of the Fourth Estate ever surfacing and questioning this public-domain document.

Add to that, how amaturish and arrogant was Team Hillary to not catch that in their Oppo research during the primaries?

[narciso]

Well take a closer look, at Goderich's blurb, and you see the 'compression' problem
later present in his memoirs,

'born in Kenya, and the son of the Finance Minister (the last would seem more appropriate
to Abdulmutalab) it's fluffing up, to explain why you would give a book contract, to a thirty year old HLS of limited distinction

[cboldt]

-- This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me ... --

How the hell was that fact supposed to be checked, and where did that fact come from in the first place?

[Cecil Turner]

On page 56, Mr Martin denies the voice yelling is Trayvon's. I'm having a real hard time believing Mr Gilbreath reviewed the evidence and wasn't aware of this.

[narciso]

Well consider who Hillary's head of research was, Mr. Legum, who has provided us, hundreds of hour, of amusement, I mean thickets of ill informed narrative,

[cboldt]

-- I'm having a very hard time seeing how the prosecutor could even suggest the yelling was by Martin. --

Corey uses Sybrina for that. She also has Tracy changing his mind, on hearing a "cleaned up" recording.

Ask how Serino and others reached the conclusion that Zimmerman was the one screaming for help. They did it by eyewitnesses who have the person on the bottom yelling "help," the person on the bottom being described as wearing read clothing, and Zimmerman wearing read plus having a wetback.

[Thomas Collins]

Good thing the fact checker who happened to review the bio two months after Obama declared for the Presidency was more careful than Goderich.

[narciso]

Of course, the problem is years later, they had to backtrack from these Tommy Flanagan level exaggerations, so the question whether
they were lying then or no, is up for debate.

[Ranger]

where did that fact come from in the first place?

That is, preciesely, the question.

If she just wrote it down from memory, she heard it somewhere before.

If she transcribed it from written notes, someone was told it by someone else.

[cboldt]

-- Add to that, how amaturish and arrogant was Team Hillary to not catch that in their Oppo research during the primaries? --

Just because they don't show it doesn't mean they don't have it. I figure Obama has the goods on the Clinton crime syndicate too, and mutually assured destruction certainly operates between our elected crooks.

[cboldt]

FWIW, my bio appears in trade publications to sell my services, and guess who wrote the bio?

[rse]

OT but important-most days I bounce around the world a bit pretending to be Education's Miss Marple. I think about what I know and how to share it so that it can be heard in time.

LUN is from powerline on the UK. PLease listen. I have said fairly consistently UK is about 5 years or so ahead of us. But I had a reminder today that the pedal is all the way down and you can make up time in the curves if you don't care about the consequences of accelerating.

They do mean to rule.

[narciso]

Allah is not surprisingly too naive,

The alternative, that the media was so uninterested in O’s background that they never checked his professional listings, is grimly possible, but I’m skeptical. I think this is a case where someone probably heard about the booklet and ignored it in order to play gatekeeper so that the Birthers couldn’t exploit the information.

Why wouldn't they have put it out, as one of the blind allies, as with the birth certificate brouhaha.

[centralcal]

...and guess who wrote the bio?

Exactly, cboldt - something millions of working, professional (or semi-professional) Americans know all about!

Well, except for "professionals" in the MFM (are you listening Tapper)!

And, I just love DoT. Doing yeoman's work (mightily successfully, too)!

[Danube of Thought]

"where did that fact come from in the first place?"

Rest assured we'll never know. What will be interesting to see is who, if anyone, even tries to find out.

[Threadkiller]

Ranger, you may want to rethink that.

" I. Obama: The Muslim ‘Caricature’

Rumors associating Obama tying with Islam first circulated when he announced his Senate run in 2003. But speculation went viral in e-mail campaigns following the announcement of his presidential run in 2006. The first phase of the Muslim ‘caricature’ broke when conservative Insight magazine published an article detailing Obama’s youth in Indonesia, the most populous Muslim-majority nation. The article speculated whether Obama’s childhood education resembled that of the strict Islamic disciplinary madrasas of Pakistan. Obama responded first by rejecting the accusations, then admitting they were true but clarifying that his education was not religious in orientation. Dozens of reports verified his correction, and CNN sent a reporter to investigate the school in question. He concluded that the school, in fact, “had nothing in common with the Pakistani incubators for jihadists,” [1] However, the point of interest is the story did not disappear once the allegations were debunked. Rather, insinuations ran rampant through the blogosphere, and a Muslim “caricature” of Obama was constructed. Later the caricature was revived when the Clinton campaign leaked to the conservative media a photograph of Obama wrapped in Kenyan dress—the insinuation that the dress was “Muslim attire.”"
http://sites.maxwell.syr.edu/luce/holland.html

Clinton even sent a one of her minions to CNN where the claim was made that Obama was wearing garb from his birth country.(I am looking for this video again)

A photo of him in Muslim garb? Where did she get that??

I believe she had all the oppo she needed, but was convinced not to go against a Chicago thugs.

[Porchlight]

Sometime between the time that bio was first written and the time it was corrected, the following things happened: Dreams was a moderate hit, Obama ran and was elected tot he state senate, keynoted the 2004 Democratic Convention to great acclaim, and was elected to the U.S. Senate. Later he wrote another book, and then he decided to run for President.

So no one at Dystel in all that time was curious to look at what they had on their website about him and make sure it looked good, was up to date, had a recent photo, etc? Not once? No curious reporter stumbled across it and wondered about the Kenya thing? No one called up Jane Dystel and asked her about this foregn-born author she represented who was suddenly famous?

So curious.

[Ignatz]

--the person on the bottom being described as wearing read clothing, and Zimmerman wearing read plus having a wetback--

I'm pretty sure Zimmerman's here legally, right?

[cboldt]

-- IF you start with the premise that GZ must be at fault -- the young black male is dead, so the other guy must be at fault -- then the "he left the truck" is about all there is. --

I've been trying to look at it from that direction too. You have a pack of evidence, and your job is to make the best case you can against Zimmerman. What does that case look like?

You can see coordination between SPD and Crump, in that both cite the same pivot point, leaving the truck to follow Trayvon. But I'm not sure that is the best pivot point if you are advocating against Zimmerman; and it certainly isn't the only possible one.

It's not the best one because Zimmerman loses sight of Martin, and eventually heads back to his truck, apparently having abandoned following Martin. So, having left his truck is inconsequential. He's just a dude wandering the neighborhood, at that point.

Serino offers an alternative way for Zimmerman to avoid being decked; and that is upon confrontation, Zimmerman volunteers that he is a concerned citizen, which suggests the first words should come from Zimmerman, not from Martin, and that Zimmerman can defuse the situation by somehow being reassuring.

I think that alternative sucks, as an argument against Zimmerman.

Anyway, it is usually a worthwhile mental activity, to transpose yourself into your opponents shoes and develop the best argument you can. I haven't spent much time on that, but I'm not impressed with Serino's offering.

[cboldt]

-- I'm pretty sure Zimmerman's here legally, right? --

Yep. And I really can spell the color "red" without using an "a." Mighty glad you folks are good about deciphering typos without remark ;-)

[Threadkiller]

Thug...

[narciso]

I don'r know where they got that notion;

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080402133931AA4YsQ6

But as with one of his mentors, Edward Said, they were not against Salafism, in so far as they reflected an Anti Western bias

Said, along with Friedman, Pillar, and of course, Scheuer ,show up as sideshows or worse in Widlanski's 'Battle for the Minds

[Cecil Turner]

The FBI voice report is on page 146-148. Money graf:

Voice comparison is not possible for the designated voices due to extreme stress and unsuitable audio quality.

There's a shocker.

[Janet]

Good thing the fact checker who happened to review the bio two months after Obama declared for the Presidency was more careful than Goderich.

Yeah...that is something.

[cboldt]

-- Dozens of reports verified his correction, and CNN sent a reporter to investigate the school in question. --

There is an enrollment card or similar for Obama, in a (IIRC) Catholic school in Indonesia, and his religion is noted as Islam. I don;t know if that card has been debunked, but it stands to reason that the child would be enrolled under the religion of Soetoro, the man who adopted him.

Separately, to the question of reason for Obama giving up his bar card, there is speculation the cause is his failure to note his various names on his application.

[DebinNC]

Here's a full-body pic of GZ at the station that night. He looks less like he'd been in a fight for his life than I expected. Perhaps Serino's initial impression was that GZ was never in mortal danger, even though he thought he was, and he didn't deserve to walk away with no charges at all. I don't agree with that, but I can see how a veteran detective who'd seen a lot of combatants in much worse shape than GZ might see it that way.

[matt]

powder burns/significant residue on the sweatshirt = contact shot. The distance can often be determined by the amount of residue on the victim's clothing. In addition the exit would would help determine the circumstances as well.

[cboldt]

That fact checker excuse is such obvious bullshit. Obama wrote his own bio, and the fact checker would just ask Obama if what he wrote was true.

Even if he didn't write it, it is inconceivable that it was published without his personal fact checking it. Obama IS the fact checker on his own bio, That's SOP. The editor doesn't fact check the vanity bio, the author does!

[MarkO]

"The issue is not really where he was born."

Considering the labor Obama has put into his other fables and compositions and the endless dissembling about everything about him, I now refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt about anything that requires it. It would not have been impossible for his mother to have taken pains to secure citizenship for her boy, especially after her “husband” absented himself.

I realize that by now all right thinking people have concluded exactly the opposite of what Obama’s agent asserted to sell his books, but with that revelation, I’m just not so certain.

Open the records. This is not a matter of character or even scandal. It is a matter of Constitutional eligibility. Voter ID pales in comparison.

Anyway, it took me nearly 50 years to give up on a JFK multiple shooter conspiracy, but I still hold out hope that the Cubans engineered it.

[torquewrench]

Dear Advice Columnist:

I live in a small townhouse community which has been plagued by burglaries. In the overwhelming majority of cases where a suspect can be described by witnesses, that suspect is African-American. I am myself not African-American. How do you suggest I proceed?

Signed, "Scared in Sanford".

Dear "Scared in Sanford":

I will present you with two different schools of thought as to how to best address your present difficulties.

The first suggestion is from Mr. George Zimmerman. The Zimmerman approach would be for you to become a neighborhood watch volunteer in an attempt to reduce the crime rate where you live.

The second suggestion is from Mr. John Derbyshire. The Derbyshire recommendation is to immediately move. You cannot, Derbyshire would tell you, fix this problem, and you would be foolish to try. Your only option is to get out at once and relocate to a more favorable surrounding, taking losses if necessary on the sale of your home.

I recommend that you think through these two different methods quite carefully, "Scared in Sanford".

It is especially worth contemplating the different fates of the two recommenders as you choose which of them to emulate.

Mr. Derbyshire has lost his job and has been publicly denounced for his temerity in making such direct suggestions.

But Mr. Zimmerman is currently on trial for murder. And depending on the breaks, may yet be sued civilly for every penny in his pockets even if he is not sent to prison. Nothing so bad has happened to Derbyshire, nor is likely to.

Best of luck in your decision, "Scared".

[MarkO]

Where did the factchecker get any of the information? Not from the Internet.

Come on, man. It's like selling your hair to a wig shop. Don't sell your hair to a wig shop.

[Janet]

That fact checker excuse is such obvious bullshit. Obama wrote his own bio, and the fact checker would just ask Obama if what he wrote was true.

Even if he didn't write it, it is inconceivable that it was published without his personal fact checking it.

That is exactly what Roger Simon & Jack Cashill say in this video.

[Rob Crawford]

There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.

So marijuana is legal in Florida?!

[MarkO]

The sad fact of American life today is that around half of the public will believe anything Obama says.

That's a Doom.

[Rob Crawford]

The report doesn't define "intermediate range."

An oversight?

More likely it's a well-known definition in the field.

[Threadkiller]

In 2004 Orin Hatch desperately tried to change the eligibility criteria for POTUS. He wanted to include naturalized citizens. Dick Durbin was at the hearing trying to nail down the problems with dual citizenship and how they could be avoided.

I wonder what they had in mind.

[Porchlight]

The editor doesn't fact check the vanity bio, the author does!

Of course. Even if someone at the agency wrote it, which I doubt, it would at minimum be given back to Obama for his approval.

There are no "facts" to be "checked" that wouldn't have come directly from Obama in the first place.

[Janet]

I linked this before too, but look at this 2011 White House Correspondents Dinner where Obama is making fun of Trump & anyone that questioned his birth narrative. He had just finally released the supposed long form BC. There sit the useless MFM laughing it up with him about the idiot Americans that have questions. It is SO sickening.

[MarkO]

TK, that assumes a fact not in evidence: that either of them has a mind.

[Rob Crawford]

Serino offers an alternative way for Zimmerman to avoid being decked; and that is upon confrontation, Zimmerman volunteers that he is a concerned citizen, which suggests the first words should come from Zimmerman, not from Martin, and that Zimmerman can defuse the situation by somehow being reassuring.

Didn't Zimmerman say he asked St. Skittles what he was doing there? Are the words "I'm a concerned citizen" required, or is an inquiry into the other person's activities sufficient to establish that?

And requiring that he speak first? How's that supposed to work?

It's a BS case, full of contortionist-grade stretching.

[MarkO]

There are no "facts" to be "checked" that wouldn't have come directly from Obama in the first place.

This has to be so. From what other source would these "facts" have come? Hmmm. What about Obama's college applications.

[Threadkiller]

Good point MarkO.

[Rob Crawford]

There sit the useless MFM laughing it up with him about the idiot Americans that have questions.

Well, the press certainly had no questions. I suspect the biggest motivation for their lack of questions was that they thought they knew the answer, liked it, but didn't want the Bubbas to hear it.

[MarkO]

What were the magic words uttered by the bus driver TM beat up? Something like "What are you doing here?"

[MarkO]

TK, you have my permission to repeat that post at will.

[PaulV]

Maybe Ayers wrote the bio?

[Rob Crawford]

There are no "facts" to be "checked" that wouldn't have come directly from Obama in the first place.

Precisely -- Obama had that blurb in his hands at least twice. Once when the outline (or the wording) was prepared, once when it was shown to him for checking and approval.

[cboldt]

-- From what other source would these "facts" have come? --

It's nothing more than a brief vanity bio, designed to entice the reader to invest in the book, services, whatever. Publishers ask their talent to draft their own bio. Heck, how long is it, 200 words? There is no "fact checking," in the sense that the editor makes sure the author isn't a lying sack of shit. The editor publishes the facts that the author provides.

If the author is a prick about writing his own vanity bio, the editor might ask a few questions (which brings up another point, my vanity bio says nothing about where I was born - I picked what facts went in, in the first place) and then write a draft for the author's approval. Do you think Steven King doesn't have veto rights on his vanity bios? Bill Clinton? Hillary!?

This Godebert, or whatever her name is, is now exposed as a liar herself.

[Rmoney Voter]

I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night night, but did spend a few hours skimming the Forensics Handbook twenty years ago...

Even then, taking swabs for chemical analysis from a 'shooter' could tell you what type of firearm was shot (pistol vs longarm, bolt vs. semi auto vs. revolver, etc., ...), as well as distance from the muzzle to the target based upon powder residue patterns. Pretty well established scientifically.

Here, based on context, you would have muzzle contact, longer range w/o powder burns/residue, and intermediate where powder burns would appear.

A shirt could be in contact withe the barrel of the gun, and a few inches between the shirt and flesh showing 'intermediate' range of a few inches between the shirt and chest.

i.e.: inside of CQB range, the arm's reach, the 'quit bouncing your head off the pavement and trying to hurt my pinky finger range'.

[narciso]

Most of the paradigms, that we are forced to operate in, are in part or wholy untrue, Tom Friedman, the Idiot Savant of the Times, well
the preeminent one in the Middle East section, made his reputation on a story, he got substantially wrong, the tragic Sabra and Shatila massacre, he subsequently ignored the abduction of reporters like Krn Timmerman for a time,

Similarly the oracle regarding WMD programs in two countries, so much so, that Daniel Silva, made him part of the inspiration for
his conscientous CIA honcho, Adrian Carter,
Paul Pillar got either the 2002 NIE on Iraq,
and/or the 2007 NIE on Iran, wrong,

[Clarice]

I trained them in that, cboldt, just for you.''Listen, if you care to write an article on the evidence in this case and get it on AT let me know. You have it all at your fingertips and no one could do a better job cutting thru the media/Crump/corey carp....

[Neo]

So Trayvon's dad said the guy in the 911 call who was screaming for help wasn't Trayvon.

[Rob Crawford]

If the author is a prick about writing his own vanity bio...

Long ago, when I worked at an ad agency, I heard tales from one of the copy editors about the time she worked with J. Michael Straczynski and Harlan Ellison.

[narciso]

Widlanski doesn't deal with this directly, but
the emeritus editor of the Atlantic, stationed in Japan, in the 80s, missed the bubble, while cheering the MITI created miracle.

[Sara]

It is true that if GZ had not left his SUV, TM would be alive.

It is neither true nor not true. Martin was out of control and he could have just as easily hauled GZ out of the truck or some other such nonsense.

I'm tired of that excuse.

Trayvon would be alive if HE HAD NOT ATTACKED GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WITH THE INTENT OF CAUSING HIM GRAVE BODILY INJURY.

I don't get the laws in Florida. Out here, you put your hands on someone, you are going down for assault and battery, even if the other person was the provocateur. My business partner years ago came within a millimeter of getting arrested for shoving a skid row bum out the door of our offices downtown when he was trying to get in to urinate on our floor. They had the cuffs out and the only thing that saved him was a radio call of a robbery on progress, so they gave him a warning.

[Rob Crawford]

Even then, taking swabs for chemical analysis from a 'shooter' could tell you what type of firearm was shot (pistol vs longarm, bolt vs. semi auto vs. revolver, etc., ...)

Really? They could tell that I fired either a Springfield XD-45, a 45 ACP Taurus Tracker, a De Lisle Commando, or a KRISS Super V Vector Rifle .45 ACP? By chemistry or pattern of the residue?

[narciso]

On this case, Alvarez and Robles, took the point, and turned out narratives that Pravda
would have been embarassed to publish, of course, Blow, Ni Coates, at the Atlantic, I forgot who was the designated drone at the Washington Post, all were willing recipients
of Julison's template.

[Rob Crawford]

I don't get the laws in Florida.

Sara, the laws in Florida are pretty clear -- Zimmerman should never have been arrested, and the prosecutor is violating the clear letter of the law in this case. I think they could tighten up their self-defense laws a bit (I prefer the requirement that you did not initiate or escalate the confrontation), but even if they had done so, Zimmerman was still acting in self defense.

(Before NK chimes in -- following someone is not initiating a confrontation. If it were, then you could face assault charges for walking through a crowded store.)

The reason Zimmerman was arrested was to mollify the mob, not to obey Florida's laws.

[East Bay Jay]

Surely the Obama story was discovered by the MSM and later leaked to Breitbart (or his team after his passing). This seems cousin to Monica and Bill (both in process and 'crime'). It's a lie, one way or the other (surely playing dumb will not come out well, if there's a leaker, Deep Goat, there's likely more instances to be leaked, surely Breitbart is smiling now).

No perjury, but pretty sleazy and refutes his only asset now - he's a good guy?!? I'm sure the MSM predicted that the prols would over-react to such a minor deception so FOR THEIR OWN DAMN GOOD they hid it. Without overlords protecting us from ourselves the oceans would be over our heads by now. Surely.

[Captain Hate]

Harlan Ellison

Dear God, what an egomaniacal prick he is. How many decades has it been since he wrote anything of interest yet he likes to think of himself as an edgy version of Arthur C Clarke. Being the size of a wedding cake figurine probably plays into the attitude.

[sammy small]

The only "first" that will ultimately frame the JEF's legacy is the fact that he was the first affirmative action president. When you have that going for you, nothing you can dig up from the past matters. That's why the MFM never bothered to look.

[Captain Hate]

narc, enough action for you in the season ending Person of Interest? Looks like they're set for next season.

[cboldt]

Video of Martin in the 7-11 BBC

Not much to see. Hoodie up, no face showing, I can't judge the height, seems average build, not acting in any way that I'd consider alarming.

[narciso]

Strazynski on the other hand, is someone of genuine talent, although results have been spotty since Babylon 5 went off the air,

[Threadkiller]

Miriam Goderich should produce other bios that she screwed up in the same time period. That would go a long way for her story.

[narciso]

No, that was quite an ending, although the rule of thumb, whenever Amy Acker is involved, it's not likely to end in 'sunshine and lolipops' I don't get what Paula's fixer character did with the computer at the end, did she take out the backdoor into the machine?

[Rob Crawford]

Strazynski on the other hand, is someone of genuine talent

But equally inflated ego.

[cboldt]

-- Miriam Goderich should produce other bios that she screwed up in the same time period. --

How about ONE, ever. And get the author on the line too.

[cboldt]

Couple of Zimmerman photos

The prosecutor released more than that 183 page PDF. I haven't found a place that offers the complete collection.

[Ignatz]

Harlan Ellison has long been on my list of guys I'd dearly love to spend a couple of rounds with in the squared circle.

[Captain Hate]

Yes Amy Acker made life difficult for doll baby Sydney Bristow. The action at the end was confusing to me because my daughter called at one of her typically inopportune times and my wife got to it before I could unplug it. One consolation in dying will be that I'll finally be away from telephones; assuming I don't go to Hell where they'll be all over the place.

[Danube of Thought]

"I wonder what they had in mind."

No mystery there. They wanted to ensure that at some point some person who, at the instant of his birth, felt an allegiance to a foreign sovereign, could become president.

[narciso]

I knew of him because of his part in 'City on the Edge of Forever' and another controversy,
re the earlier Twilight Zone revamp, but what I saw of him on a weekly Scifi talkshow was unpleasant,

[narciso]

This is one of his ongoing project, strazynski
not Ellison;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shattered_Union

[scott]

Somebody called him when he was at the counter. DeeDee?

Hello?...Hello?

You want a bag?

Aight.

Thanks.

No problem.

That's my crack transcription.

If he had only gone for the Mentos instead of Skittles, he may still be alive. He could have offered one to George with a friendly "Howdy, neighbor!" Skittles make a man ornery.

[cboldt]

-- They wanted to ensure that at some point some person who, at the instant of his birth, felt an allegiance to a foreign sovereign, could become president. --

The goal is to eliminate the notions of national sovereignty and patriotism. Hatch is advocating that "any good man or woman" is capable of being a good president.

I'll give him one thing, the US isn't "special" the way it used to be, with the likes of Hatch and his contemporaries viewing the US as just another facet of a world plantation, managed by politicians.

[cboldt]

-- If he had only gone for the Mentos instead of Skittles, he may still be alive. --

Did you see how ling it took the clerk to make change? Get rid of that delay, and Martin walks home before Zimmerman gets his shoes on.

[narciso]

I think that was considered 'the Schwarzenegger amendment, at the time,

[narciso]

Jacobsen succinctly summarize Proust;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/05/evidence-and-ultimately-avoidable-legal-irrelevancy-released-in-trayvon-martin-case/

[Danube of Thought]

"The goal is to eliminate the notions of national sovereignty and patriotism."

It's hard for me to see how that goal can be inferred.

"Hatch is advocating that 'any good man or woman' is capable of being a good president."

Who wouldn't advocate that, and why?