Zimmerman Case - Evidence Released, But Where?

[MSNBC has 183 pages of documents]

[UPDATE: ABC News has quite a headline:

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting

MSNBC:

Court docs: Trayvon Martin shooting 'ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman']

The Orlando Sentinel has a story on the new Zimmerman evidence dump but I can't find the raw material at the court website yet. [MSNBC has 183 pages here.]

JACKSONVILLE - Never before seen evidence in the case against George Zimmerman shows that Sanford Police believed the encounter between Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was "ultimately avoidable," if Zimmerman had "remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement," according to hundreds of pages of evidence in the case released this afternoon.

Direct TV prepared the arrest affidavit: "Don't get out of your car.  If you get out of your car...".

Somehow, an even more helpful societal message - don't punch strangers in the face - seems to have been lost.

There is a cryptic tox result:

The autopsy report says there was THC — the active chemical found in marijuana — in Trayvon's blood and urine.

Before I say "I told you so", let me ask this - would this result indicate recent drug use, as in, Martin went out for a smoke to prime himself for the NBA All-Star game, or would it mean he had smoked in the previous weeks or month (Martin was on suspension for having an empty marijuana baggie, after all)? I know the normal employment test can pick up deferred use, but maybe this was a more time-sensitive blood test or some such. [In UPDATES I am currently concluding the drug use was probably *not* recent, but I am hardly an expert.]

Zimmerman did say on the 911 call that Martin looked like he was "on drugs or something".  The defense will find this to be very interesting.

The report by Serino said Martin had $40.15, Skittles candy, a red lighter, headphones and a photo pin in his pocket.

A lighter but nothing to light. He smoked 'em, he ditched 'em, he never had 'em. Pick one.

MORE: CNN posts the autopsy and has a story on the drug result:

(CNN) -- Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system when he was fatally shot earlier this year by George Zimmerman in Sanford, Florida, according to autopsy results released Thursday.

Martin's blood contained THC, which is the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, according to an autopsy conducted February 27 -- the day after the teenager was shot dead.

Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) -- according to the medical examiner's report. There was also a presumed positive test of cannabinoids in Martin's urine. It was not immediately clear how significant these amounts were.

Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website.

While some states have zero-tolerance policies for any drug traces for driving while impaired, others set certain benchmarks, the website of California's Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs notes. In Nevada, that equates to 2 ng/ml for THC and 5 ng/ml for THC-COOH -- also known as marijuana metabolite. The cutoff level in Ohio is 2 ng/ml for THC and 50 ng/ml for THC-COOH.

If I am following along, this means that Martin exceeded one impairment threshold but not the other in Nevada and was below both thresholds in Ohio. And the obvious caveat is that the autopsy was a day later; I have no idea whether death would halt the breakdown of those drugs, but I bet we will find out.

From the California branch of NORML:

Blood tests are a better detector of recent use, since they measure the actual presence of THC in the system. Because they are invasive and difficult to administer, blood tests are used less frequently. They are typically used in investigations of accidents, injuries and DUIs, where they can give a useful indication of whether the subject was actually under the influence.

We also learn that as THC is metabolized it forms

THC-COOH, which can linger in the body for days and weeks with no impairing effects.

And pressing on: 

Blood Tests

Unlike urine tests, blood tests detect the active presence of THC in the bloodstream. In the case of smoked marijuana, THC peaks rapidly in the first few minutes after inhaling, often to levels above 100 ng/ml in blood plasma. It then declines quickly to single-digit levels within an hour. High THC levels are therefore a good indication that the subject has smoked marijuana recently. THC can remain at low but detectable levels of 1- 2 ng/ml for 8 hours or more without any measurable signs of impairment. Chronic users have been found to show residual blood THC levels of 1.5 (+/- 0.5) ng/ml for a full week after ceasing use [Karschner].

Note: THC blood levels above are recorded in terms of concentration in serum or plasma. Most U.S. labs report levels based on whole blood instead. Concentrations in whole blood are about half as high. Therefore 1 - 2 ng/ml in plasma is equal to 0.5 - 1.0 ng/ml in whole blood.

Unlike urine, blood test results can give a useful indicator of whether one is impaired by marijuana. Studies have shown that high THC blood levels are correlated with impaired driving. An expert panel review of scientific studies on driving under the influence of cannabis concluded that THC levels above 7 - 10 ng/ml in plasma or 3.5 - 5 ng/ml in blood indicate likely impairment [Grotenhermen].

More here:

Marijuana and Impairment
In A Primer of Drug Action, pharmacologist Robert Julian, MD, PhD, wrote, “ . . . absorption of inhaled drugs is rapid and complete. The onset of behavioral effects of THC in smoked marijuana occurs almost immediately after smoking begins and corresponds with the rapid attainment of peak concentrations in plasma. Unless more is smoked, the effects seldom last longer than 3 to 4 hours.”

In the Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics, Franjo Grotenhermen, MD, wrote, ”Pulmonary [lung] assimilation of inhaled THC causes a maximum plasma concentration within minutes, while psychotropic effects [the “high”] start within seconds to a few minutes, reach a maximum after 15 to 30 minutes, and taper off within 2 or 3 hours.”

In summary, any mental or motor “impairment” is associated with the psychotropic effects (the “high”), and these effects are equally associated with pain relief. When the plasma THC levels return to low-levels at 3 hours and baseline around 4 hours after smoking marijuana, the high resolves, and so too does any impairment. This is important: no impairment after 3 or 4 hours from taking THC.

Nevada talked about raising the level to 15.

And this chart (from a marijuana advocacy group) shows THC and THC-COOH levels after one joint. If we work with that, it is hard to see how Martin could have smoked a joint in the previous hour.

IF I CAN GET OFF DRUGS FOR A MOMENT: The Orlando Sentinel is continually updating their story, which now includes this on the screaming:

Two FBI audio specialists tried to identify who was screaming in the background of one 911 call and concluded it was impossible, according to the documents. The quality of the recording was not good enough and the screams didn't last long enough, they wrote.

We gleaned this from the bond hearing, but I will take another "Told you so". And while I indulge my dark side, let me wonder about this - does "Dolt" mean "Dances on lefty tools"?

The FBI report audio report starts on p. 146. The FBI took a listen to the "Effing Punks/Phones/C**ns/Pukes" mystery but came up empty; the FDLE took a stand in their arrest affidavit, apparently on their own initiative.

As to the screaming (p. 147-8):

"ULTIMATELY AVOIDABLE": Several news outlets are keying on the notion that the tragedy was "ultimately aviodble" if Zimmerman had stayed in his car. The complete passage includes a second scenario - Zimmerman identifies himself as a concerned citizen:

It is not clear at all as to how their encounter unfolded, so how do we know this did not happen? And in any case, both Jeralyn Merritt and Bill Jacobson explain that this "Butterfly Effect" theory of the crime is not how the law works.

THE CHALLENGE OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY: Two people (the 13 year old and a woman) saw someone lying on the ground calling for help, but no assailant.  That's on p. 42.

ID'ING The SCREAM: Mr. Martin's statement (p. 56) that the screaming heard on a 911 call was not from Trayvon was not helpful to an arrest:

DOES ANYBODY REALLY KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS?

This 7-Eleven video seems to have a timeatamp in the upper left corner. One set of numbers is fixed at 18:9:9, which woul dbe one second short of 7PM.

However, the numbers that actually change as the 'action' unfolds run from 23:44 to 24:14 (roughly half a minute), with the lead numbers apparently cut from the picture. Presumably the missing hour number does not correspond to 7PM, so I infer that either (a) Martin left the 7-Eleven at 6:24 and took a slow walk home, or (b) that timestamp means something else entirely, or is erroneous.

Presumably the police have pinned this down, but I don't see it in the reports.

 

Comments

[Cranky Observer]

"- the encounter was avoidable by Zimmerman not getting out of his truck, or if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen. That is the basis Serino had for finding probable cause to issue a Capias charging Zimmerman with manslaughter."

Tanks ceebie. Now, you and TM are synchronized with Crump.

[MarkO]

Heads should roll.

[Paul]

The witness statement that TM had GZ pinned and was battering him "MMA style" exactly when the shot occurred is the most damaging to the prosecution.

[Captain Hate]

would this result indicate recent drug use, as in, Martin went out for a smoke to prime himself for the NBA All-Star game

But THC is detectable in the blood for a short time, usually a few hours, because it is rapidly metabolized into molecules known as metabolites. At least 80 different metabolites are formed from THC. These metabolites are stored in body fat and are gradually eliminated from the body through feces and urine.

[Uncle BigBad]

Just saw ABC news about new Zimmerman evidence. No mention of Martin's injured knuckles, nor THC in his blood.

[Jay]

I look forward to doof-doof now asserting it is impossible to throw a punch when you're high on marijuana...

[GMax]

And a cellphone photo taken at the scene. Obvious blood in Zimmerman moustache, and OBVIOUS swelling of his nose ( I await doubledumb walking back his dismissal of the Doctor's report now, how big does the conspiracy get ?).

Corey should be fired.

[Bob]

"I look forward to doof-doof now asserting it is impossible to throw a punch when you're high on marijuana..."
Like Nick Diaz did against Carlos Condit at Ufc 143.

[Bob]

If Trayvon had been grounded as a result of his school suspension he would be alive today. If Trayvon had not been left alone unsupervised he would be alive today.
If Trayvon had not gone outside to smoke a fattie he would be alive today.
If Trayvon had not cold cocked a resident of the community in which he was a visitor he would be alive today.
If Trayvon had enough sense to get out of the rain he would be alive today.

This would make a great board game.

[Jim Eagle]

Angela was kissing Mitt's ass today at the yacht club in Jax. She is in trouble with the victimized black community of northeast Florida, her main constituency, and now she has to worry about the onion losing all its peels?

We are going to watch the Mother of all ass bites.

[Enlightened]

Well, since Martin had a lighter and no cigarettes on him, I suspect he did indeed leave his home to smoke a joint, got paranoid when GZ spotted him, at first probably thought GZ could be a cop, then when he got closer he thought he could take him, and tried to kick the shit out of GZ.

Why did Martin feel he had to kick the shit out of GZ? Did GZ call him a N---er? Did GZ call him a "f--king punk or coon"? Was the fact GZ was on his phone and watching Martin enough to push Martin into a violent act against GZ? Since no witnesses heard or saw the encounter how can anyone dispute GZ's word?

Something must have been said, or GZ acted in some way that was a catalyst for a stoned and paranoid Martin teeing off on GZ. And sadly Martin did not know GZ was armed.

[GMax]

Do all Kenyans eat dog as a delicacy, or just the one in the White House?

[Steve]

What Zimmerman said to the police is key. If he lied to the police then a case can be made he was covering something up.

[myiq2xu]

"Avoidable" is not an element of the crime.

[Cecil Turner]

Well, let me just say "heh" on the firearm section:

Recovered at the scene were;
Kel-Tec PF-9
6 live rounds in the magazine
1 loose live round when cleared that had been in the chamber
1 spent casing

[emphasis added, transcribed from original]

Toldja that "failure to feed" stuff was probably misreporting.

[Enlightened]

Hah - ABC not describing GZ as "multi-racial Hispanic"

Unbelievable.

[Steve]

"... Something must have been said, or GZ acted in some way that was a catalyst for a stoned and paranoid Martin teeing off on GZ ..."

why would Zimmerman provoke Martin when Zimmerman knew the police would be arriving at any moment? As a law enforcement wannbe, Zimmerman was probably wanting to double back to his vehicle as quickly as he could so he could talk to the police when they arrived.

[GMax]

I am still earnestly and diligently turning over rocks and looking high and low for the fabled "Blue Tide". So we heard today that Intrade was support for the contention. Well I giggled for awhile, but once I regained my composure ( Intrade tells you what compulsive internet gambler think is a good bet, nothing more ). But lets roll with it.

INTRADE

Odds of democrats controlling the Senate after the election 29%

Odds of democrats controlling the House after the election 29%

Tidal wave is nonevident! Can we get better trolls?

[Incoming CME]

Gobmax, you can look in your underwear for nuggets of wisdom, if that's your pleasure, but don't try to predict the future.

It's not even possible for cboldt.

[Steve]

Shouldn't Zimmerman be more bloody if his head had been bashed into the concrete and received repeated punches to his face?

[Paulo]

If Corey wasn't so sexy, I'd prosecute her.

From the ABC link...

""He witnesses a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches 'MMA (mixed martial arts) style,'" the police report of the witness said. "He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass."

A second witness described a person on the ground with another straddling him and throwing punches. The man on the bottom was yelling for help, the witness told police.

The documents state that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.

The lead investigator on the case, Officer Christopher Serino, wrote that Zimmerman could be heard "yelling for help as he was being battered by Trayvon Martin." "

[Paulo]

"Shouldn't Zimmerman be more bloody if his head had been bashed into the concrete and received repeated punches to his face?"

Nice try.

[Sara]

"Shouldn't Zimmerman be more bloody if his head had been bashed into the concrete and received repeated punches to his face?"

How many times does this question have to be asked and answered?

[GMax]

I guess Bubu is brooding? Tell him his story needs to be "its all a big conspiracy, the Sanford PD is in on it, so is Zimmerman's Physician." Its not a good story, but hey stick with it and ride that pony...

[Sara]

I saw on the other thread that the concentration was on blood from Z's nose, but look at his nose in that pic. It is all out of whack, all misshapen. There is no question that nose is broken.

[GMax]

Is there still a prog @sshole looking for an exit wound? That was a major malfunction. And quite public. Maybe someone can find it and display the idiocy for rest of us' delight...

[daddy]

Listening on the headsets to the Talk Radio News snippets of this at the top of the hour. They mention that TM had marijuana in his system and that he was shot from no further away than 18 inches, but then bizarrely say this is the evidence Prosecutors will use to try to convict GZ of a hate crime and of 2nd Degree Murder. Huh? How does that follow?

It makes zero sense whatever, but then as you wonder if you heard those non-sequitors correctly, they are off instead talking about the latest from the Kardashians. etc.

[Rob Crawford]

Administrative Contact:
   Kyle Butts
   Assistant Director of IT
   Pitzer College
   Information Technology Office
   1050 N. Mills Ave
   Claremont, CA 91711
   UNITED STATES
   (909) 607-2879
   kyle_butts@pitzer.edu

FYI.

[AliceH]

I lost my place, skipped ahead to the FBI Audio analysis, page 147.

I laughed at this: "The specific request to identify the word following "fucking" ... could not be done due to weak signal level and poor recording quality."

But this strikes me as horrifying: "...the designated screaming voice is audible for approximately 18.82 seconds".

Holy moly, that's a long time when you're screaming for help. (Elsewhere mentioned they counted 14 occurences of "HELP")

[Danube of Thought]

"Shouldn't Zimmerman be more bloody if his head had been bashed into the concrete and received repeated punches to his face?"

Wahat a beauty that one is. OK, so the fact that he was less bloody than...something...means his head hadn't been bashed into the concrete and he hadn't received repeated punches to the face.

So how did he get a broken nose and two black eyes? How did he get lacerations on the back of his head? What activity did the eyewitness mistake for MMA?

[Sara]

Didn't bunker post a few nights ago that once the doctor's injury report was made public, he was willing to concede? I don't think he has been back since.

[GMax]

Steve = moron squared

[GMax]

Zimmerman leaves the courthouse a free man with a shield of immunity, and Crump goes back to filing suit on behalf of inmates who have been deprived of their right to an ashtray. Too bad I cant predict a just reward for Corey but two out of three aint bad as Meatloaf told us...

[narciso]

Oh, I hadn't noticed this detail before.

http://www.therightscoop.com/trayvon-martin-autopsy-reveals-marijuana-in-blood-and-urine/#disqus_thread

[Jay]

Shouldn't Zimmerman be more bloody if his head had been bashed into the concrete and received repeated punches to his face?

Posted by: Steve

Um, considering he was treated by EMT's prior to those pictures being taken, no.

[narciso]

Sorry, I didn't see that part of the post,

[Enlightened]

I also noticed (I believe in one of the medical reports) that the stippling on both sides of the GS hole in the sweatshirt indicated a "contact shot"

As for the THC in Martin's system - I am convinced he bounced out of Dad's place to fire up. Maybe he only had a roach left...you don't have to smoke a whole joint to get high, impaired or paranoid on weed.

Dee Dee know he was getting high.

[GMax]

Still on my search but I am not able to find a ripple let alone a "blue tide". But I do note this:

In the first Rasmussen Reports survey since their primary wins last week, Republican Pat McCrory reaches the 50% level of support against Lieutenant Governor Walter Dalton in North Carolina’s 2012 gubernatorial contest.

The former Charlotte mayor now leads Dalton 50% to 41% in a telephone survey of Likely Voters in North Carolina. One percent (1%) prefers some other candidate, and eight percent (8%) are undecided.

[GMax]

Dalton is the sitting Lt Gov. McCrory just a mayor. But this one looks over.

[Ignatz]

--I guess Bubu is brooding? Tell him his story needs to be "its all a big conspiracy, the Sanford PD is in on it, so is Zimmerman's Physician." Its not a good story, but hey stick with it and ride that pony...--

No. He already indicated his stance all along has been that there should just be a full airing of the facts, blah, blah, blah.
Doesn't quite explain his repeated assertions that Zim lynched Martin.
Memory holes; the fashion accessory no lefty can leave home without.

[Jim,MtnView,Ca,USA]

re: "blue tide"
GMax, surely there is a surge of blue in those states where extreme Tea Party candidates won primaries?
I'm thinking, oh, IN and NE for starters.

What, no surge? Nothing? Well don't that beat all....

[GMax]

Jim

You dont see it either? Oh thank god, cuz our prog troll said there was one, and I could not detect it. I have been looking everywhere...

[Carol Herman]

Doesn't the Edwards trial have to have a jury verdict, before you can predict how jurors react to prosecutions?

In other words, what if the Edwards prosecutor fails? (After the Anthony prosecution failed.)

Could it be that the media is not respected?

[AliceH]

Enlightened: Yup. Page 122, Lab test by Amy Siewart, Crime Lab Analyst, Firearms Section.

"Both holes [in sweatshirt and hoodie] display residues and physical effects consistent with a contact shot"

[cboldt]

Host Tom Maguire: AFAIK, the material will never show up at the court website; at least not in this form. This is public records disclosure by the state.

183 pages of discovery documents, thanks to News 4, Jacksonville. This is about 18 Mb, pdf file.

[Thomas Collins]

TM had pot in his system? Now we know what TM is doing during those triple and quadruple digit threads.

[willem]

I yet to see reported where the site of the shooting was in relationship to his Daddy's GF apartment. Nor have I seen anything reported on where GF was at the time of the shooting, or where Daddy was at that moment.

Further, has anyone seen the event properly mapped; showing the location of GF's apartment relative to the first siting of TM by GZ showing the movement of TM relative to GF's apartment between the time GZ first sited TM until the beating which ended in a shooting?

Also, anyway know how long GF had lived there? How long GF was Daddy's GF? The dates and times TM had stayed there over the prior 12 months. It would also be interesting to know if a pattern could be observed between the incidents or increases in burglaries on association grounds and the times TM was present in the complex with Daddy, GF or both. Did Daddy and GF leave TM alone at GF's apartment?

Not sayin' the shooting isn't a freak one-off, but there may be facts to yet be learned about the patterns and time of TM's presence in the neighborhood and the surge in burglaries still unaccounted for. I haven't seen such facts or such questions in play.

Somewhere between inquiring minds and best laid mice, I suppose...

[Enlightened]

Ok - so a "contact shot" means the gun was in contact with the sweatshort correct? That eliminates anything farther than 1-2 inches - give or take if the sweatshirt was baggy or loose....yes?

So thats that - the shot was fired at really close range.

[narciso]

OT, Looking at this, we can see the strong motivation behind the GID operation, note the names involved,

[Danube of Thought]

Factoid: the voice on those DirecTv commercials is that of Peter Thomas. He also narrates Forensic Files.

Just thought we oughta get that out in the open.

[Sara]

Willem:

Tom had an early Zimmerman thread with all kinds of maps of the complex.

I don't think Martin ever stayed there. He lived in South Florida, stayed with Daddy who had his own place.

[Ignatz]

Factoid: the voice on those DirecTv commercials is that of Peter Thomas. He also narrates Forensic Files.

Just thought we oughta get that out in the open-

And he's your second cousin or he's married to a niece or something, right?

[willem]

How tempting it was to recharacterize TM with the acronym of his highly preferred and carefully chosen Facebook handle "NLN".

Every time I use the initials TM, I can't help but think of our gracious and brilliant host.

TM and NLN broadly differentiate the outer limits of modern dudeness. How different a web is woven when contemplating the royal prowl of NLN though the pregnant darkness of a frequently burgled community.

Or maybe that's just a side-effect of watching Sacha Baron Cohen's new movie last night.

Aladeen jurisprudence does seem to explain the prosecution's reasoning in this case.

[cboldt]

-- I don't think Martin ever stayed there. He lived in South Florida, stayed with Daddy who had his own place. --

Trayvon had been at Retreat on Twin Lakes before. Some of the younger kids who live there would play football with him.

[GMax]

Some of the younger kids who live there would play football with him.

Did he show them that amazing trick he could do with the screwdriver?

[narciso]

So some of the same behavior that brought him, north, may have been responsible for his fate,

[Redbrow]

Why is everybody making light of the fact that there was THC confrimed in the BLOOD STREAM which indicates recent use. Nevermind it illegal to smoke pot in florida and he is a minor.

This fact proves Zimmerman was nor arbitrarily 'profiling'.
Zimmerman clearly stated one of main reasons for his suspicion of Trayvon.

"This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]"

Not because he was black or wearing a hoodie.

Because his behavior was consistent with someone on drugs.

AND HE WAS RIGHT.

[Redbrow]

Will somone, PLEASE tell Redbrow that THC is not water soluble and lodges in the soft tissue for 30-60 days?

sheesh.

BUT NOT IN THE BLOODSTREAM, DOLT.

[MarkO]

If I had a son who smoked weed, he would have been even higher than Trayvon.

[Enlightened]

Ok - something is niggling away at me - why do GZ's clothes look so - clean? Maybe I can't see it in the pictures, but I don't even see any blood drops on him from his own bloody nose, he doesn't appear "disheveled" such as after a fight might suggest. He doesn't even look wrinkled, or grass stained - nothing?

Hmmm-Curious

[AliceH]

What pictures are you referring to, Enlightened? So many links...

His wife brought clothes to the Police Station for him to change into that night - he turned over his clothes to the police as evidence (shoes, socks, etc).

[daddy]

Hewlett Packard to lay off 30,000 workers

I blame Bush.

[Clarice]

People here had speculated that the reason TM left the complex was not for snacks but to get and smoke weed.Such suspicious minds.

[narciso]

We were speaking of mind arson, or 'unknowledge' which is a rather large category that much of the MSM has indulged;

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/05/17/how-the-history-channel-transformed-into-conspiracy-theory-central/?singlepage=true

[Redbrow]

When I think of disheveled, I think of messed up hair. George has very little hair but the hair around the cuts is all matted together with clotting blood. As for the nose, he was sporting a goatee and again, the facial hair absorbed a lot of blood and is matted with clotted blood.

[Janet]

If I had a son who smoked weed, he would have been even higher than Trayvon.

Hah!

[Sara]

I have known lots of pot smokers and paranoia wasn't a symptom I've seen displayed, that's cocaine. I've also never seen pot make someone become violent. If he was acting strangely, it may have been because he didn't want to get caught smoking, but I seriously doubt it was because he was smoking.

[Ignatz]

--I have known lots of pot smokers and paranoia wasn't a symptom I've seen displayed--

Perhaps anecdotal evidence isn't that useful, sometimes.

[Campesino]

I am beginning to think this should be ruled death by testosterone poisoning.

Zimmerman was maybe too high T - followed Martin a little more than was needed, and could have gotten back to his truck a little sooner with confrontation avoided. But sounds like his heart was in the right place trying to protect his neighbors

Martin was probably too high T - not to mention judgement impaired by being high. Saw a squatty, out-of-shape Hispanic dude and thought he could take him. Maybe egged on by macho talk to his GF on the phone. Didn't know Zimmerman was packing and that was his fatal mistake

[Rob Crawford]

I've also never seen pot make someone become violent.

How about a combination of pot and Thug Culture?

[mrt]

"Before I say "I told you so", let me ask this - would this result indicate recent drug use...."

Dude.
He was at 7-11 buying Arizona Iced Tea.
And Skittles.

[fred teerick]

Well, it's obvious to me that the bullet was filled with THC, which when shot into the heart put THC in the blood. (Offered only in order to give the NYT something to headline tomorrow.)

[Redbrow]

You can bet that if the autopsy showed no trace of THC present, the prosecutor would take Zimmerman's statement "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something." and use it as evidence that Zimmerman was baselessly profiling Martin.

[Sara]

Yep!

[Sara]

Even if the person who spelled Mormon wrong is a bit of a moron.

[Melinda Romanoff]

As I have said before.

In Illinois, an attorney relinquishes his or her license only when the loaded bag over his or her thread is SO loaded that the crime time and fine is far worse than the license.

They both ran from the bar.

This is common knowledge here.

G'Night all.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Shouldn't Zimmerman be more bloody if his head had been bashed into the concrete and received repeated punches to his face?"

Good question, and one that occurred to me as well. I'm also wondering why the scratches on the back of his head did not show the copious blood seen in the other photo released by ABC News -- the one they got from some anonymous source.

[Ralph L]

Yesterday's paper had the plea bargain of a Greensboro man (Hit, where are you?) who smoked some adulterated pot in December, drove his Lincoln upto 135 mph on the interstate NAKED, crashed, ran into a housing development, and broke into a house by jumping through the front window. House belonged to a cop!, who tasered him into submission. Somehow, he only got a long suspended sentence and lost his license.

[bunkerbuster]

Ig: lynching refers to an extrajudicial execution. The insistence that Martin's murder wasn't worth a trial because the unarmed teenager was suspected of crimes, including assault, is therefore support for a lynching. Saint George absolutely deserves his day in court to force the state to prove his intent in the murder, but without that trial, the murder varies only in a few details from the typical lynching.
As for me "bugging out,'' I can assure you, I've neither lost interest in the case, nor feel in any way disproven by evidence that has emerged. Quite the opposite.
Remember, my point all along was that probably cause was apparent. The white-power choir hymn was that there was no probable cause. The latest evidence shows that Serino, the lead investigator, believed there was probable cause for an arrest.
My other contention was the police investigation was woefully inadequate, a fact that has been shown to be true as well in lavish detail.
And gain, for the umpteenth time, the racism on display in this killing isn't as simple as Zimmerman wanting to kill an Afro-American. The evidence for that is only circumstantial. The salient racism is that the police department believed it didn't have to perform a complete investigation. That could have been just laziness, but who can believe that if Martin had been the one using lethal force to defend himself in a chance encounter involving no crime, the police would not have understood from the start that a complete investigation was absolutely necessary and an arrest unavoidable.
Another point I have made all along is that a trial is good for Zimmerman, if he's innocent. Without one, reasonable people could conclude he'd lynched Martin, or simply killed him in cold blood. Now that evidence is being made public that supports Zimmerman's account, it seems that's true as well.
Since I've been right on point after point, I'll go ahead and make another prediction about where the white-power narrative is wildly off base. Should Zimmerman be acquitted or charges reduced or even dropped, there will be no riots.
Sure, there will be a few fringe characters calling for violence, just as there always is on both sides, but few will be listening to them. What ordinary Afro-Americans have called for from the outset is a fair trial. Now that they're getting one, the best bet is they'll accept it's conclusions…

[Kathy Kattenburg]

I'll take the Mormon over the moron.

Are you talking about the moron who said, “I’m not familiar with precisely what I said, but I stand by what I said, whatever it was. I’ll go back and take a look at what was said there.”

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"The insistence that Martin's murder wasn't worth a trial because the unarmed teenager was suspected of crimes, including assault, is therefore support for a lynching."

That's a great point, bb.

[Ralph L]

So bb and KK are in favor of lynching, or do you just never trust the police to gather and evaluate evidence and witnesses?

[Buford Gooch]

We have BuBu, KaKa, and now all we need is DuDa. All in agreement. Left hand sock puppet agrees with right hand sock puppet. Now we just need a puppet on each foot.

[new era pas cher]

Gute Frage, und eine, die mir eingefallen, als auch. Ich bin auch gefragt, warum die Kratzer auf der Rückseite seines Kopfes nicht zeigte die reichlich Blut in dem anderen Foto von ABC News veröffentlicht sehen - der, den sie von einem anonymen Quelle erhielt.

[mbt chaussures]

Also BB und KK sind für Lynchjustiz, oder willst du einfach nie Vertrauen in die Polizei zu sammeln und auszuwerten Beweise und Zeugen.

[Chubby]

Sara, it looks to me like the "Mor-Man" spelling was intended as punning word play.

[Ignatz]

--Ig: lynching refers to an extrajudicial execution. The insistence that Martin's murder wasn't worth a trial because the unarmed teenager was suspected of crimes, including assault, is therefore support for a lynching.--

Thanks for the clarification, buub.
So when you say Zimmerman lynched Martin you weren't accusing him of anyhting wrong or making a value judgment about his actions or character, you were magically condemning us, the people who saw the plain evidence for Zimmerman's act as self defense. Wow. What an amazing rhetorical trick.
Presumably, similarly when you've spoken of Matthew Shepard's lynching or James Byrd or the many lynchings of innocent blacks in the South you weren't casting any aspersions on the characters of the murderers themselves, because they weren't really the ones doing the lynching.
How large minded and tolerant of you.
Just proves what a resourceful and talented adolescent you are buub, you chicken shit liar.

[Justice For Dublin Dave!]

I'm still wondering how in 2012, no audio or video exists of one Trayvon Martin.

I don't think he's the ref in that "Fight club" video. He's standing next to the kid who is filming the bout, though a tall kid does cross through the shot at the end of the video. You can only see the back of his head. He might be Trayvon. Obviously Crump and the PR gang conspired to lose all audio of TM so as to continue the farce of a kid who is whuppin' up on GZ but still is the voice yelling for help. (or maybe TM wasn't winning.)

[hit and run]

Ralph: Hit, where are you? It was a long walk into work today.

[richard40]

Kudos to ABC news for finally doing some honest reporting on this case. As usual MSNBC is completely disgusting with their "ultimately avoidable" headline.

If a woman takes a walk in her own neighborhood, and gets attacked and raped, will the press say the attack would have been "ultimately avoidable" if she had not left the house. What complete drivel. Putting yourself in a situation where you might be a potential victim of an attack may be unwise, but it is definitely not criminal, and even worse definitely not 2nd degree murder if you then defend yourself against that attack.

Following a stranger in your own neighborhood is not a criminal offense, whether you have incorrectly profiled them or not (and btw it appears zimmermans profile of "high on drugs" might be true). And if somebody follows you, even if you had done nothing wrong until that point, and they confront you and ask you what you are doing there, does not give you the right to attack them, pin them to the ground, and beat them MMA style. Martin criminally attacked zimmerman, and attempted to severely injure and possibly killed him, and paid the price because his potential victim, zimmerman, had a gun to defend himself.

Charging 2nd degree murder here was a gross abuse by the prosecutor. Even a manslaughter charge would have been an overeach, unless they had some proof that zimmerman either started the fight, or it started mutually. And following somebody is not starting a fight, throwing a punch is starting a fight.

[Trochilus]

Responding to richard40 | May 18, 2012 at 11:59 AM:

I agree with much of what you have said.

The curious behavior by the prosecutor does not seen to rise to the Nifong level of abuse -- i.e., there is no allegation of anything like his willfully withholding exculpatory evidence -- but one really does have to wonder what the deuce was going on in Corey's head when she made the decision to personally proffer the "second degree murder" charge all on her own, rather than seeking a grand jury indictment!

By doing so, she risked being seen as having turned this whole thing into a personal quest. That is never good!

Given the virtual trove of exculpatory evidence that is emerging (and which she had fully in her possession prior to making that decision to charge) about the nicest way to put it is that she may well be woefully lacking in sound judgment!

Maybe I am missing something, or perhaps we haven't seen or heard of some compelling piece of evidence, or listened to some particularly persuasive testimony . . . something that can magically overwhelm what they have so far! Of course, that would be improperly withholding evidence, wouldn't it? Discovery requires that everything be disclosed.

But what every lawyer, and law enforcement person knows well, is that criminal cases -- particularly high profile cases with a competent defense team in place -- are ultimately not about what happened.

They are about what the prosecution can prove happened, each and every element of which, must be established beyond a reasonable doubt.

So, where's the beef? What supports this case? Or this "second degree murder" charge?

The "getting out of the car" business is just so much media-spinning crap. As you correctly pointed out, getting out of your car does not constitute an action that "initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself" . . . to reference the specific the language of the statute. And since when would that, even coupled with failing to say anything to fully identify yourself as a "neighborhood watch" person, give rise to a legal justification for being physically attacked -- as if by getting out of his car, he somehow earned himself a sucker punch in the nose, delivered by someone several inches taller than himself . . . followed up by a severe beating while he was on the ground?!!

I have got to think we're soon going to be witnessing a motion to dismiss, perhaps along with a few other motions, and seeing a very red-faced prosecutor who is completely on the defensive, trying to justify her actions.

Without coming up with something more, she is going to be widely perceived as a lady who has very quickly used up her 15 minutes of fame!

[Dana O' Pitzer College]

I disagree. Zimmie's ultimate aquittal will be seen as a miscarriage of justice by many.

[Dana O' Pitzer College]

Campesino,
Death by Testosterone. That's a good'n.

[Beasts of England]

Enlightened@6:48 - He had a lighter in his possession so as to light a lady's cigarette. Chivalry is not dead, you know...

[Beasts of England]

Sara@11:00 - Maybe the artist meant to type 'MoreMan'?

[Beasts of England]

Sara@9:11 - I've witnessed both marijuana and cocaine make folks really paranoid - especially some boutique strains (e.g., Alabama High-Test) which they've cloned. I concur that those two substances do not make folks prone to fighting. The opposite, in fact...

[HerbM]

Zimmerman has an fairly simple case of self-defense, but don't make too much of the AMOUNTS of THC until Toxicology report is returned.

According to at least one Dr. Wexler the analyzed blood was from the chest -- free blood -- no amount nor concentration is valid that way.

[The Dude]

Bring back the true dime bag of of Primo Bud!