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May 17, 2012

Comments

bgates

Teaching not to follow isn't cowardly or giving into thugs

Perhaps you could suggest a course of action that would be cowardly, for comparison. I would have thought running away in fear from suspected criminals qualified.

Jane

I'd like to ask them what prompted them to take the bio down - because if Obama didn't know about it....

Sue

cboldt,

Oh, yeah, I somehow forgot "arrested" in the length of time it took me to type that post.

Chubby

(( If it wasn't directly from Obama, then from what source?))

he apparently did not protest the bio, so that was tacit agreement, imo. but whether he was agreeing with truth or a lie, is a whole other question.

Clarice

Jane, I don't think the story is good enough to run without names and pics..When they decide to go public, let me know.

BTW they ought to engage counsel for their son to sue the social service agencies.

centralcal

The bio was up until Feb 2007 showing Kenya birthplace and rewritten by April 2007 giving Hawaii as the birthplace according to John Nolte at Breitbart.

jimmyk

Then ignored the instruction. I think 'pursuit' as well as 'followed' lack the urgency of his hot pursuit.

Really? Holy s**t! You better get this information to the authorities right away!

(h/t Jim Ryan)

cboldt
Not included: his three statements to police or the video-taped reenactment he did for detectives the day after he killed Trayvon. Under Florida law, confessions are exempt from public records laws.

Interesting characterization of the interrogations.

Bruce
If you do nothing, you will eventually be disbarred for not paying the semi-annual license fee.
Remind me never to try to practice law in your fair state - once a year dues is once too often.
Ranger

Breitbart trained them well. The first "explanation" is out, and the Breitbart crew have made it in-operative. Hot Air has an update:

Update: Fact-checking error, says agent

And the Breitbart crew have already pointed out that the "error" was still being made 16 years later.

Chubby

if Obama claims he didn't know about it, I call B.S. He would have been sent copies of the publication and he probably had his page framed.

Janet

I'd like to ask them what prompted them to take the bio down - because if Obama didn't know about it....

Great question, Jane.

Sue

I think we are now entitled to know if Obama traveled on foreign passports, listed himself as a foreign student, or did anything else proactive to declare himself a foreigner, regardless of where he was born. Release his college transcript.

Redbrow

"This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something."

Vindicated!

Not profiling, rather astute observation.

Doctor Bulldog

Tom,

Don't know if you have already seen this, but autopsy also shows Trayvon WAS on drugs:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7VqUFI5Cg7

MarkO

B. H. Obama, the source of all "birtherism."

Please, dear God, let there be someone who has the wherewithall and courage to get to the bottom of this. If he promoted himself as born in Kenya, it no longer remains the province of wild, racist speculation (no offense to TK who is not like that at all--he's a grad of the Google School of Law)

cboldt

-- I think we are now entitled to know if Obama traveled on foreign passports, listed himself as a foreign student, or did anything else proactive to declare himself a foreigner, regardless of where he was born. --

Many current and past members of Congress don't share your desire. Hell, as far as they are concerned, dual citizenship is no barrier - who cares about divided loyalties? We're only talking about the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, after all.

chas

Posted by: corn-fed conservative | May 17, 2012 at 05:14 PM

where is there any evidence Z followed skittles?

jimmyk

The simple answer is that Barry told whatever story helped advance his career in the circumstances. "Born in Kenya" was great for student fellowships, a literary bio, street cred, whatever, but obviously not so great for running for president. Who knows what the truth is. He may not even know. It's clear he doesn't care.

jolly olly

It's arrival is not good news for y'all.

"JACKSONVILLE - Never before seen evidence in the case against George Zimmerman shows that Sanford Police believed the encounter between Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was “ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement,” according to hundreds of pages of evidence in the case released this afternoon.

cboldt

Funny to watch some of the press outlets change the Martin photo, from the ubiquitous 12 year old in a red "Hollister" tee shirt. USA Toady is currently running the Martin as a child photo; ABC, in the article about Martin having THC in him, uses a more foreboding image.

jolly olly

"Really? Holy s**t! You better get this information to the authorities right away!"

No need.

chas

Posted by: jolly olly | May 17, 2012 at 05:21 PM

that means nothing. he was in an area he had a right to be in. no law requires him to relinquish that right because some seedy thug is hanging around. but even further, if skittles hadnt brutally attacked him Z would have never shot him. skittles is ultimately responsible for the incident.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

Well there you have it.

cboldt

chas - "corn fed" and a number of other posters in here are the same asshole. When you see an outrageous claim in a post, and it comes from a "new name," just ignore it.

jolly olly

It's really simple enough, even for y'all.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

chas, that last post was meant to be a comment on jollyo's 5:21. Apparently he thinks the case is all over. Rats. And here I thought I knew how to analyze evidence.

jolly olly

'asshole'(s) only produce shit, counselor.

How's your sphincter?

Paulo

"Don't know if you have already seen this, but autopsy also shows Trayvon WAS on drugs:"

So GZ was right when he told 911 (or 311) that "he might be on drugs". Now that is an experienced neighborhood watch guy.

The evidence released so far seems to back up GZ's claims. It sounds like TM was the paranoid one. Hmmm, a trip to 7/11 to satisfy the munchies?

If this is not a clear cut case of self defense, then I don't know what is. Many citizens are cowards and don't care about what happens to a neighbor. It appears that GZ is a hero and not a criminal.

Redbrow

jolly olly - The same police department that is on record stating they lacked evidence to arrest George Zimmerman?

cboldt

Hah. Check the broken nose.

Evidence In The Trayvon Martin Case... - Global Grind

Another fine example of press-manipulated presentation, in the mold of ABC's "grainy video" (made grainy by ABC using a camera phone to record the original).

jolly olly

"Evidence released in Trayvon Martin shooting; Photo shows George Zimmerman with bloody nose"

Heh. One for the defense. How many bloody noses did you have, as a child?

Life Threatening !!!!

Paulo

Where is the ignore "jolly olly/dana ward/lonely troll" post?

Porchlight

jolly olly is Dana Gilbert Ward of Pitzer College, whom our host has instructed us to ignore.

MarkO

chas, you got it.

AliceH

Two typical comments from cboldt's link to article with GZ broken nose pic:

I don't gve a shit what evidence they have with this case the police instructed him not to follow trayvon so everything thereafter is irrelevant! and I'm sure failure to listen to police orders is a crime in its self he needs to be locked up!
and
No, this doesn't prove anything to me...u could do this to yourself

*sigh* This sort of mulish resistance to even a semblance of rational thought makes me despair.

Porchlight

If he promoted himself as born in Kenya, it no longer remains the province of wild, racist speculation

MarkO, I think this is where birthers have a legitimate beef. They were ridiculed as being racist lunatics for even suggesting a thing. Not sounding so insane if Obama's literary agency had it on their brochures/website for 16 years.

Let's face it, if - and it's still an if for now - he told Dystel & Co that he was born in Kenya, then he told others. Probably Occidental and Columbia for starters, and maybe even HLS. It got out there. It wasn't just crazy birthers who heard about it, either.

At minimum I think birthers would be justified in demanding an apology or two, at least on the "you're racist and insane to even suggest it" angle.

jolly olly

" Trayvon Martin Shooting: Autopsy results say slain teen had defensive injuries to his knuckles"

Still arrogant about a Romney win?

Try the Rush remedy; Oxycontin.

centralcal

jolly olly (Dana Gilbert Ward of Pitzer College) will try multiple other names, no doubt, but you can recognize his writing style with the first one or two words - so just ignore.

Jane

Clarice,

I'll talk to them after they settle in...

Janet

I don't gve a shit what evidence they have with this case the police instructed him not to follow trayvon so everything thereafter is irrelevant!

Because you know leftists are big on following police instructions! This probably wasn't a popular line back in the 60s...or even in the Rodney King arrest!

MarkO

"Birther," as a term of derision, just left the dictionary.

B. H. Obama, the First Birther.

Sheriff Joe, it's a brand new day.

I want to watch the MSM tamp this down. Will it make the NYT? It is a legitimacy issue. It is no longer irrelevant and cannot be dismissed with a Rosemary Woods clerical error excuse.

Sue

Mark,

I want to watch the MSM tamp this down

They already are. It was a fact checking error by his publicist. Nothing more. Case closed. Seriously.

Sue

Not publicist, literary agent.

cboldt

18 Mb PDF set of discovery documents

Courtesy News 4 Jacksonville.

MarkO

Oh, move along. Just a typo.

Sara

Obama Made Mexican Maids Cry in College

Obama, in college, completely trashed his California dorm room and left it for “Mexican” women to clean. It was so beyond the pale, including vomit, it brought the hard-working women, who had no doubt seen messes every day, to tears—in Barack Obama’s presence—but he did nothing and let the immigrant women clean up his vandalism and destruction.
Steve

Do the discovery documents contain a transcript of Zimmerman's questioning by the police?

macphisto

i swear, life has become so bizarre that there's no way parody can keep up any more.

Chubby

((Please, dear God, let there be someone who has the wherewithall and courage to get to the bottom of this.))

we are all birthers now ;)

cboldt

I think the Serino Affidavit has been freed!

It reads a bit like Crump and Corey, assigning blame to Martin for getting out of his truck - the encounter was avoidable by Zimmerman not getting out of his truck, or if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen. That is the basis Serino had for finding probable cause to issue a Capias charging Zimmerman with manslaughter.

Pages 26 & 27 of the 183 page PDF.

Sue

cboldt,

I was listening to Mark Furhman of OJ fame today on Fox and he said the same thing. Zimmerman's fault because he got out of the truck. He said more, but mostly he assessed blame for the entire encounter on Zimmerman.

cboldt

"Typo" in my previous, obvious I hope, assigning blame to Martin should have been assigning blame to Zimmerman.

I read that Zimmerman's statements are missing from this 183 pager. I don't know for sure, as I'm not past page 27. The list of evidence is sorta interesting, fingernail scrapings from Martin (haven't seen results of any evaluation) ...

Chubby

OT

did people know what a rat JFK was, wrt his numerous adulteries, when he was president? would it have made a difference to the Democrats? Yes, I do think the public has a right to know who they are voting for if that person is a serial adulterer.

The stories about RFK Jr.'s philandering, accompanying the stories about his wife's suicide, are disgusting. These are the types of men that Democrats exalt?

Janet

Video of Jack Cashill on the Obama bio. God bless Jack Cashill!!

Sara

Mitt Romney raised $40 million in April. This must drive Obama crazy.

Cranky Observer

"- the encounter was avoidable by Zimmerman not getting out of his truck, or if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen. That is the basis Serino had for finding probable cause to issue a Capias charging Zimmerman with manslaughter."

Is there anything you care to add, cboldt?

"That is the basis Serino had for finding probable cause to issue a Capias charging Zimmerman with manslaughter."

There it is. Sweet.

chas

"That is the basis Serino had for finding probable cause to issue a Capias charging Zimmerman with manslaughter."

There it is. Sweet.

Posted by: Cranky Observer | May 17, 2012 at 06:10 PM

but then the prosecutor, i.e. someone who knows the law, slapped him down. now, that is sweet.

cboldt
...the black male was mounted on the white or Hispanic and throwing punches "MMA (mixed martial arts style". He state he yelled out to the two individuals he was going to call the police. He then heard a "pop"> He stated after hearing the "pop", he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the black male wearing ht "hoodie") laid out on the grass. Upon inquiry, [he] stated he did not witness how the confrontation started.

But, that seems to be how it ended. Trayvon throwing punches mixed martial arts style (whatever that is) one moment, laid out dead or dying the next. That's from page 38. Some big areas of redaction, much larger than one would associate with elimination of witness name and address information.

peter

Remind me never to try to practice law in your fair state - once a year dues is once too often.

I meant to say biannual-- once every two years.

DebinNC

Serino may have recognized GZ as the ringleader of the "justice for the homeless guy beaten by Sanford police" crusade that eventually got an officer's son indicted.

MarkO

"the black male was mounted on the white or Hispanic and throwing punches "MMA (mixed martial arts style"."

Maybe, at that point, TM could have jumped up and ran away safely. No? How can anyone responsibly bring this case?

AliceH

Page 29: "No latent print(s) of value for comparison were noted on Exhibit DMS20" [the gun].

MarkO

ran? No. 'have run away." Eeekkkk.

peter

Mr. President, won't you sign the LUN?

cboldt

Heh, on page 39, Tracy Martin tells Serino that Martin didn't return from the store. Nothing about not returning from the movies.

Same page, the voice yelling for help (14 times in 38 seconds) was determined to be Zimmerman.

DebinNC

"the black male was mounted on the white or Hispanic

Doesn't sound like someone who knew George, which helps his credibility.

Thomas Collins

Time to defend in a stalwart manner our dear Baracus Husseinus Obamus Maximus. If Running Rabbit Warren can claim to be 1/32 Cherokee, why can't Obamus Maximus claim to be 1/32 born in Kenya and 31/32 born in Hawaii?

cboldt

page 40, anonymous female caller tells police that Zimmerman is a racist, and is fully capable of instigating a confrontation that could escalate to deadly force.

I bet that the ex who took out the restraining order years ago. Scorned women never forget, or forgive.

DebinNC

was determined to be Zimmerman.

By whom, Ms. Fulton? Gilbreath swore under oath the FBI tried and failed to prove that.

Chubby

((If Running Rabbit Warren can claim to be 1/32 Cherokee, why can't Obamus Maximus claim to be 1/32 born in Kenya and 31/32 born in Hawaii?))

we better hold our horses until the Bow Wow Chow cookbook is uncovered

Ignatz

If Trayvon had defensive injuries on his knuckles should we assume Zimmerman had offensive wounds on the bridge of his nose nose and back of his head?

Chubby

"Running Rabbit Warren"

genius :)

was that your's Thomas?

cboldt

Page 41 - witness reports hearing "I've got a gun, I've got a gin" and "take my gun from me"

cboldt

I could use a gin

jimmyk

why can't Obamus Maximus claim to be 1/32 born in Kenya and 31/32 born in Hawaii?

Maybe he was some kind of Schroedinger's Cat experiment gone awry.

Thomas Collins

Infinite LOLs, Chubby, on your 6:29 PM post!

jimmyk

Page 41 - witness reports hearing "I've got a gun, I've got a gin" and "take my gun from me"

Was that to the police, or during the fight? Sounds like he's talking to the police. What would be the implication of GZ telling TM "I've got a gun"? That sounds complicated.

Chubby

((I could use a gin))

I hope it's not because we're birthering a Zimmerman thread

Thomas Collins

Jimmyk, Obama was Tribe's research assistant on an article applying the curvature of constitutional space to judicial decisionmaking. Perhaps Obama has some unique way of applying quantum mechanics to his bios!

cboldt

Page 56, Tracy Martin says the voice yelling for help is not Trayvon.

Thomas Collins

As far as I know, Chubby, I didn't get it from anywhere. If someone shows it on a post before mine, I'm going full Bellesiles and claiming my notes showing attribution were destroyed!

cboldt

-- Was that to the police, or during the fight? --

I can't tell, and wondered the same thing. Either that, or "take my gun" is a fragment of Zimmerman saying "Don't take my gun," or Martin uttering some bullshit.

AliceH

Was that to the police, or during the fight?

Witness says he heard a scuffle, arguing, "ah ah", about 20 cries for help, and then a "pop". He then ran upstairs and THEN heard "I've got a gun" etc. He did not want to look out his window because he didn't want to be seen.

I'd surmise that, given the police were on scene very soon after the shooting, what he heard last was GZ making sure the cop (who it is noted elsewhere had his gun pointed at GZ) knew that he was armed.

Janet

Here is Obama mocking Trump & all who questioned his being born in Hawaii at the 2011 White House correspondents dinner. I can't say how sick this makes me.

Incoming CME

Better change your focus to productive ventures. Throw Z under the bus,(as is your routine)because his cause is not helping you insulate yourself from what's going on.

e.g. 2008----


"Like I said the other day, there is a significant segment of wingnuttia who really do think the reason McCain lost was not because of his lurching between positions like a lunatic, not because of the disaster of the Bush years, not because of the economic implosion brought on by Republican policies, and not because of his idiot Veep, but because they just didn’t go negative enough on Obama and because he was not vetted. It’s only going to get nuttier as hacks like the Breitbart stooges attempt to “vet” someone who has been in the job for four years."

http://www.balloon-juice.com/

Incoming CME

Haven't heard much from the Donald, since, eh Janet?

AliceH

page 17: (Stacie McCoy reports, on 2/27) Officer T. Smith advised over 11A that he needed assistance immediately, confirming there was a victim unresponsive and he had one at gunpoint.

Threadkiller

http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/donald-trump-say-it-is-so-sheriff-joe/

Janet

He says he heard Michele Bachmann was born in Canada & that this is how it all starts...the MFM yuks it up big time.
You know how it starts? Obama prints it on his bio, that is how.

centralcal

What about his mother being and anthropologist and his father a finance minister? How accurate are those descriptions in the publisher's brochure.

AliceH

Though it's trivial, I find the $40.15 found on/by Martin a bit odd, after seeing $20 or $22 bandied about for weeks.

I was pleased to see actual documentation of Arizona tea and skittles. Also a cell phone, key chain and flashlight, head phones, and a red 7-11 brand name lighter.

Threadkiller

Interesting comment at Hot Air regarding the lady who claims she made the fact check error on the bio:

" Miriam Goderich began working at that agency in 1995…That’s 4 years AFTER someone at the agency wrote Obama’s bio info. Check out these links to 2 short articles about Miriam Goderich and you’ll figure it out, too.

http://www.netwo.org/conference/bios-07.htm

h http://www.dystel.com/staff-e-mail/

centre on May 17, 2012 at 6:37 PM"

cboldt

Page 105, no Martin DNA on grip of gun

Page 107, Zimmerman's DNA on Martin's shirt (didn't show up as blood?)

Page 122, sweatshirt and hoodie have evidence of contact shot

cboldt

-- I find the $40.15 found on/by Martin a bit odd --

The coroner found another ten cents. No joke.

Thomas Collins
"Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life."

The above, from www.richardhornsby.com, describes the state of mind necessary to convict for second degree murder. It has been discussed before at JOM. I bring it up now to put in context the "ultimately avoidable" statement discussed in TM's post. "Ultimately avoidable" is not the standard for second degree murder. This case is not even close to second degree murder.

Sara

anthropologist

Sounds so much better than hippie or Ph.D in weaving.

cboldt

TK, do you think Goderich knew Obama from Columbia? Seems she'd not be a fellow traveler, having come to the US from Cuba herself.

Ignatz

God I hope Corey did not go ahead with charging Zimmerman based on the fact that he got out of his vehicle.

Janet

TK, I think Goderich worked there before, but became a partner in 1995.

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