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May 23, 2012

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GMAX

Well its a University poll, that is your first clue. The link says cross tabs available at 11 AM but Suffolk has never distinguished itself as a particularly discerning pollster and that split if Rick has it right, is laughable for a supposedly likely voter poll.

Extraneus

So all of a sudden, Gallup is featuring Biden's statistically insignificant negative favorability. (Check out the chart. His unfavorable percentage is up two points since 2009, and his favoribility is identical.)

Now why would they do that?

PDinDetroit

How can anyone defend themselves from a tyrannical govt with handguns against drones armed with bullets, tear gas, tasers or lasers.

A handgun is only there to fight my way to my rifle or as a last resort.

Made by people? Can be taken out by people!

narciso

Ah 24 points, does seem like 'dialing up to 11'

Rick Ballard

GMax,

The Suffolk sample is also 20% union while Massachusetts has a 14.5% membership rate. That's not really such a big deal in a year where 45% of union members are trying on their Romneycrat ball caps but it is indicative of a certain lack of QC in sampling.

sailor

Well, EX, if the Dems want Hilary to replace Biden, they need to get her to a plastic surgeon and a spa and AA soon!

GMAX

Has anyone caught even the faintest glimmer, anywhere in the USA, of this often quoted to us, BLUE TIDE? I have seen big waves, small waves but this looks like an eddy to me.

Extraneus

Ooops. Biden's unfavorability is up 5 points since 2009. Still, what's the significance of him being 2% favorable over unfavorable in 2009 and now 2% unfavorable over favorable? Except to help convince him to bow out, I mean.

Ignatz

--How can anyone defend themselves from a tyrannical govt with handguns against drones armed with bullets, tear gas, tasers or lasers.--

The Afghanis seem to be doing OK at it.

AliceH

Thanks, cboldt. It appears the MO Statute of Limitations for auto theft is 3 years, clock starting from the date of the theft.

I did find myself snickering when I kept running into the use of "SOL", not having encountered the legal usage of that particular acronym before.

AliceH

Ex: My first thought re: Biden poll numbers was this was simply more narrative prep work to explain how the (imminent) loss in the election is not Obama's fault.

Janet

It is a good thing it wasn't Herman Cain photographed with porn stars....now THAT would be news.

Extraneus

Could be, Alice. That's quite a stretch, though, blaming Slow Joe for a bunch of racists voting against Obama.

AliceH

They're designing an a la carte menu of rationalizations, Extraneous, and making sure there are enough side dishes and condiments, as well as the entrees, to satisfy all their disappointed customers.

jimmyk

I find that astonishing. Looking it over, there are almost no breaks from the phone

I'm sure he was just trying to keep up with his math homework while on suspension.

DebinNC

Seaking of Biden, yesterday Insty featured a story that may indicate Mrs. Biden's charity was using his publicly funded Del. office to lower their admin costs and look better on the "best to worse" charity lists.

Commisar Gus

What if the police arrived thirty seconds earlier and broke up the fight? Would Trayvon have been charged with A&B?
Brandi and GZ are renters. Could a townhouse association break leases for misbehavior?

DebinNC

Dedicated Dad over at The Conservative Treehouse has a lengthy and intriguing piece suggesting Trayvon was both a drug user and seller. DeeDee told Bernie she's known TM since kindergarden. I wonder if she attends his previous school close to Ms. Fulton's address, Miami Carol City HS, or Michael Krop HS, 8 mi. away, where he apparently seldom showed up on time or at all?

And I just learned that Tracy Martin was married to another lady when TM died, even though he's reportedly been seeing Brandi for several years. Was Tracy Martin a local truck driver of was he away all week? If so, who was overseeing Trayvon's coming and goings, because no one was making sure Trayvon was at school, despite what had to be numerous calls to the parents from the school about his chronic tardiness/truancy?

Clarice

The great Jay Cost on the perils of statistical modeling.http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/perils-statistical-modeling_645825.html


Use your common sense..

Ignatius J Donnely

Deb,
Tracy lives in Miami but visits Brandi every weekend. Trayvon had been to Sanford before.
You can tell he knew exactly where the watermelon cooler and Skittles were located
at Chez 7-11.

DebinNC

Tracy lives in Miami but visits Brandi every weekend

But reportedly Tracy was still married to someone he married in 2005, while reportedly dating Brandi for two years. Both Tracy and Sybrina reportedly live in Miami Gardens, which is a township or incorporated part of northern Miami. I don't know where the current Mrs. Martin lives, but whoever was supposed to be overseeing Trayvon was failing at the job. I think he was raising himself.

DebinNC

Orlando Sentinel May 5:

"Alicia Stanley, whom Martin married in 2005, said it was always apparent to her that Martin and Trayvon "were the best of friends." "He is a very good father," Stanley told the Sentinel. She said she and Martin split up just weeks before Trayvon's death.

So where and with whom was Trayvon living this year at the time he earned the two previous long suspensions and the final weedy baggie one?

DebinNC

From the Miami Herald 3-6 piece re TM's multiple school suspensions this year:

"In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.”

I hope O'Mara interviews that officer and that he's black.

Ignatius J Donnely

With his Mother

Sue

"He is a very good father,"

No he isn't. His son is with him because he is suspended from school and he leaves him alone to do whatever while he and his new lady friend go out? He doesn't bother to locate him when he finally decides to come home? I guess compared to some he is a very good father. But I wouldn't call him a very good father.

DebinNC

With his Mother

She transferred him from the "ghetto" Carol City HS to the better Krop HS miles away. That was wise, but how did he get to Krop on the limited days he actually showed up? Did he have a car available to drive himself? Did Sybrina drive him to Krop HS busstop and leave him there? Did she drop him at Tracy's wife Alicia's house to catch the Krop school bus? What, if anthing, did Sybrina do about the school's repeated calls to her about Trayvon's chronic tardiness/truancy? Each incident required parental notification, so there must have been lots of them.

Bruce
Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.”
Wait a minute. Thought that it meant "Winning The Future", which was supposedly the Obama campaign slogan this time around, until they came up with "Forward", unless the later is just the campaign "word", which allows WTF to remain the campaign slogan.
Bruce
Dedicated Dad over at The Conservative Treehouse has a lengthy and intriguing piece suggesting Trayvon was both a drug user and seller.
Unless they were fakes, Martin had a gold grill and tats. Don't know what the autopsy showed there, but the former is unlikely to have been cheap.

Which gets to the question of how a high schooler paid for such, as well as that cell bill, his pot use, etc. Haven't heard anything about a recent job, so that likely leaves a bit of crime. Mentioned above was selling drugs - likely I think the pot that he smoked (as evidenced, at least, by the residue in his bloodstream). But, the other alternative might be the burglaries that Zimmerman thought that he might have been involved in. Oh, and didn't he have some jewelry at some point that wasn't his?

That is one of the things that has bugged me a bit about Martin's supporters is their repeated assertion that he was not, in fact, casing the townhouses there in preparation for burglary. I think that the reality is that we just don't know, and never will. The only witness who knew, died in March, but I think that there is some evidence that he may have been involved in some property crimes in the past.

Bruce
What if the police arrived thirty seconds earlier and broke up the fight? Would Trayvon have been charged with A&B?
I have always suspected that to be the case. And, it would have been another unremarkable Black on White crime, so no mention in the national press, and likely little locally.
Ignatius J Donnely

http://images.digitalmedianet.com/apexchange/2012/20/image-2aee69c791aa4bb0abd79260c3b4f933.jpg

When was this pic taken and who took it?
His nose looks much flatter and you can see blood. It looks like GZ is in a car.

Neo

Ultimately, Trayvon Martin was killed by a pitbull.

(Reuters) - A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.

The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.

jimmyk

I looked at the evidence dump linked in TM's post, and it seems that the tox report (p. 132 or so) is blacked out, or at least not really readable. Anyone know where the info is about the THC, and why the report is blacked out?

Ignatius J Donnely

Has anyone seen pics of the 13 year old witness' dawg? I have. I wonder if he is Big Boi.

DebinNC

3-25 Tampa Bay Times:

"Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before."

Either Sybrina felt she could no longer handle Trayvon and sent him to Tracy, or "lived with his dad" was a ruse enabling TM to attend Krop HS, while he still lived 8 mi. away with his mom. The biggest hoddie marches were immediately after Obama announced Trayvon looked like his composite son. Trayvon's old high school, Carol City, empied to go march, but at Krop HS they carried on and announced they'd produce a banner in remembrance. I don't think Trayvon was even in school this year in a meaningful sense. He just occasionally showed up, usually late. The Crump money caravan featuring Sybrina's tearful claim that Trayvon was looking forward to college is bs or a sad delusion.

DebinNC

The Brown family's dog a boxer named Sake.

cboldt

-- What if the police arrived thirty seconds earlier and broke up the fight? Would Trayvon have been charged with A&B? --

The prosecutor could, on the facts. Whether or not the prosecutor would is open to question. If Martin is beating on Zimmerman, as Zimmerman and eyewitnesses say, Martin is committing battery, at the least. The charge of aggravated assault (a felony) if you find he threatened to take Zimmerman's pistol and kill him with it.

cboldt

-- I looked at the evidence dump linked in TM's post, and it seems that the tox report (p. 132 or so) is blacked out, or at least not really readable. --

Page 137, in a box right around mid page.

Gus

Sorry troll Donnelly has 2 L's.

Captain Hate

Bill has become pathetic hasn't he? I always thought Bill would die when some dude shoots him in flagrante dilecto with the dude's wife/girl friend. I thought that was invalidated by the triple by-pass, but no, Bill's back to being as low rent as ever.

Slick's always been low rent; his "gift" is making people think he isn't. If you asked "what ex President would be pictured with 2 porn stars" there's only one person you'd think of. Even Adultery of the Heart would probably know better than that although he's pretty sketchy about sex in his own weird way. I hope those girls were wearing protection because Clenis probably has so many untreated STDs that they possibly can be transmitted through osmosis by skin contact.

Ignatius J Donnelly

Gus,
Where have ya been?
Was there a sale on XXL Dale Jr Shirts at Wal Mart?

narciso

From an earlier watercarrier for the template;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/george-zimmerman-sanford-police_n_1541250.html?show_comment_id=156694506#comment_156694506

Mark Folkestad

Bruce brings up an important point about the possibility that Trayvon was doing property crimes to support his habits and phone use. When he was found with all the women's jewelry in school, there were no consequences because the cops checked the burglary reports and found no matches. BUT the cops in his home county wouldn't have been checking for stolen property lists in Sanford's county. I wonder if a match could still be made, if photos were taken of the suspected stolen goods? When my home was burglarized and trashed about eight or nine years ago, the deputy told me that they only checked recovered property and pawn shops in our county, and that it was MY responsibility to contact LE agencies outside of our county and to visit pawn shops within the region with flyers giving exact descriptions of the stolen goods.

Ignatius J Donnelly

His Dad paid the phone bills. I hope it was an unlimited plan. I'm guessing Tracy gave him money too. TM probably had enough cash for a blunt now and then but (and I don't know what Reef goes for these days)I'm guessing price alone would make dealing out of his league.

Ignatius J Donnelly

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00215/A4S_trayvon032512a_215872c.jpg

What are those concrete slabs in the back yards? GZ could have hit his head on the slab in John's back yard. It would certainly feel like asidewalk. One problem with Z's account is that TM lay with his head facing the house and his feet facing the sidewalk.
This the cops thought made Z's account questionable.

jimmyk

Page 137, in a box right around mid page.

Thanks. Is that a full tox report? It doesn't say what they checked for. Can we infer there was no codeine, for example?

cboldt

-- Thanks. Is that a full tox report? It doesn't say what they checked for. Can we infer there was no codeine, for example? --

The way I read it, the urine was tested, came back positive, so blood analysis was done. I would not assume the results in that box represent a full tox test - nothing looking to alcohol, for example. IOW, I would not infer no codeine, etc., as there is no test result with -zero- or whatever is functionally the same.

I found it weird that the tox test is cannabis-related, only. Nothing for morphine/oxycodone like substances either.

Paula

According to two witnesses who spoke directly to me by phone today told me that FDLE investigators used strong armed tactics to get witnesses to change testimony.

It’s a investigator tactic. During my time it these kinds of tactics occurred a lot. In the vernacular it’s called “guidance”. Witnesses told me that investigators used such guidance and in one case actually threatened the witness with charges for “obstruction” if they didn’t “cooperate fully” with the investigation.

“I really felt that no matter what I told them I saw and heard, they had a story in mind that they wanted me to articulate, not what I witnessed”

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/

daddy

"Dedicated Dad over at The Conservative Treehouse has a lengthy and intriguing piece suggesting Trayvon was both a drug user and seller."

Obama was right. The more we learn about Trayvon, the more he looks like Obama's kid.

tjking

I have seen numbers listing Trayvon listed variously as 6'3" and 190 and as said above looking about 20. Also after seeing him in the convenience store video with hoodie towering over the cashier, he appears to be very big and athletic.

Seeing Zimmerman in his red jacket in the custody video, he appears to be small and skinny, but initially he was listed variously as being 5'7 and 250. This would make him clinically obese.

I looked at some numbers for comparison. Miami Heat's Dwayne Wade is listed 6'4" and some times 6'3". Jack Black is 5'7" and 196. John Belushi was 230. "Newman" from Seinfeld has fluctuated around 260, but as high as 290. Chris Farley was of similar stature. These men are generally referred to as fat actors. Spud Webb and Justin Bieber, although not fat are also 5'7"

Try to picture a pushing match between Dwayne Wade and Justin Bieber. Imagine a fight between Dwayne Wade and Jack Black.

Using the initial news reports numbers on GZ and the reality of Trayvon, this plays out as a rumble between a 17 year old, buffed, High School Varsity Football Athlete and an older, short, sedentary, and obese office worker who was noticeably out of breath for nothing more than a brisk walk.

Who is going to win that?

In the end, they probably weighed about the same and the athleticism, fighting experience(MMA style), aggression, and youth won out over what was probably a retreating, non-agressive, out of shape older man.

Ignatz

--Try to picture a pushing match between Dwayne Wade and Justin Bieber. Imagine a fight between Dwayne Wade and Jack Black.--

Not only am I imagining them I'm enjoying the results considerably.
Can I imagine Robin Williams getting a world class beat down as well?

MJW

The state's motion to seal evidence is here.

It offers no reason why Martin's and DeeDee's cellphone records couldn't be released, with the actual names and phone numbers redacted.

cboldt

Both the state's motion, and O'Mara's, are available at 18th Circuit Collection of Documents. Both motions filed yesterday, O'Mara basically "joining" the state.

O'Mara notes thousand or more e-mails to SPD, which are part of discovery. Not witnesses, just opinions of townfolk.

Dela Rionda wants to withhold "The 911 recording of the murder."

MJW

Dela Rionda wants to withhold "The 911 recording of the murder."

I mentioned that odd item on TalkLeft. Is it usual for the prosecutor to call it "the murder," instead of "the alleged murder" prior to the trial. I know the state must believe a murder took place to charge it, but I would think they should at at least pay lip service to the presumption of innocence.

Also, I assume they are referring to the well-known, oft heard, scream 911 call. What's the point in trying to supress it now?

cboldt

-- I mentioned that odd item on TalkLeft. Is it usual for the prosecutor to call it "the murder," instead of "the alleged murder" prior to the trial. --

I think it's a deliberately inflammatory choice of word. The statute he refers to, F.S. 406.136(2) refers to the confidentiality of material relating to a "killing."

-- I assume they are referring to the well-known, oft heard, scream 911 call. What's the point in trying to supress it now? --

I think it's just a matter of creating an appearance of adhering to the law. The state isn't honestly interested in seeking the truth, certainly not in "truth" being available to the public as a whole. It is aiming for every advantage it can obtain, and it is aiming to protect its narrative.

Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet

O'Mara's brief makes it pretty clear that he wants to have time to file appropriate motions to suppress without first having the potentially suppressed evidence broadcast worldwide.

Examples are Z's statements to the police.

cboldt

The state on wanting to withhold W9, roughly describes what it is asking to be withheld - an allegation that Zimmerman is racially biased against blacks. Okay, there is the state repeating the sense of the allegation, so what harm can come from reading the allegation directly from the witness? The witness might discredit herself if her statement is hyperbolic or otherwise incredible.

The state on wanting to prevent the voice stress test from being public because it is not admissible. "Admissibility at trial" is an irrelevant consideration!

The state on wanting to prevent the cell phone records from being public, in part because it would identify "the victim's parents." You have got to be kidding me. Corey did her presser with Tracy and Sybrina, etc. I can understand not wanting to publish DeeDee's number, and other phone numbers, and it is my understanding that address and phone info is routinely redacted from garden variety cases. But the state wants to stifle the sort of phone record analysis that you've been doing.

I think we've seen the state's best evidence. Now they are working to suppress public awareness of defendant's evidence.

MJW

Cboldt, the statute's word, "killing," is much better than my "alleged murder," and the fact that the prosecutor chose not to use the completely applicable language of the statute proves the malice behind the choice of "murder."

I really think it's counterproductive. I'm sure the judge notices the use of that kind of cheap trick.

cboldt

-- O'Mara's brief makes it pretty clear that he wants to have time to file appropriate motions to suppress without first having the potentially suppressed evidence broadcast worldwide. --

Indeed. And he makes a superior request in that he gives more specific limitations on release (IOW, only "parts" of the material should be withheld). I think his request as to Zimmerman's statements to police is based on an abundance of caution, in case Zimmerman said something inculpatory or in the nature of admitting a criminal act. Confessions can be suppressed from trial, and O'Mara does not want a suppressible confession being front page news.

Bruce
The prosecutor could, on the facts. Whether or not the prosecutor would is open to question. If Martin is beating on Zimmerman, as Zimmerman and eyewitnesses say, Martin is committing battery, at the least. The charge of aggravated assault (a felony) if you find he threatened to take Zimmerman's pistol and kill him with it.
I think that you may need to get to either the lunging for the gun or the threats to kill Zimmerman before you get to aggravated assault.

Went though this the other day, seeing if I could get to use of lethal force in self-defense from the last alternative - starting with: 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.:

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
So, while it isn't exactly clear what a "forcible felony" was, I assumed that a felonious assault and/or battery would likely qualify. The problem was that most of those crimes that Martin could have been charged with, would apparently been misdemeanors. Aggravated Assault is a 3rd degree felony, but:
(1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault:
(a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.
(2) Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
The felony part is circular, since that was what I was looking for in the first place.

I think that the best bet might be attempted 3rd Degree Murder or Manslaughter, both 2nd degree felonies, and the failed attempt would downgrade them to 3rd degree felonies. Maybe even 2nd Degree Murder, which would downgrade to a 2nd Degree felony.

Otherwise both assault and battery are misdemeanors.

cboldt

-- I think that you may need to get to either the lunging for the gun or the threats to kill Zimmerman before you get to aggravated assault. --

Agreed, I think you need to find both. Just tossing out an example of a possible charge if Martin's attack had been interrupted.

-- So, while it isn't exactly clear what a "forcible felony" was, I assumed that a felonious assault and/or battery would likely qualify. --

F.S. 776.08 - Forcible felony

None of these fit the Zimmerman case, but you can shoot somebody for an attempted sexual battery (which is short of rape, FWIW); or carjacking; or for trying to throw, place or set off a bomb; or arson; or pirating an aircraft.

In the case of reasonable fear of death, the person justified in using deadly force is trying to stop a murder or a manslaughter. In the case of reasonable fear of serious injury, the person is trying to stop a felony battery or an aggravated assault. IOW, the "reasonable fear of serious injury or death" is a restatement and duplication of several of the grounds for "or to prevent a forcible felony."

cboldt

Just to add, the reasonable use of deadly force might be by a third party, not a person who is in reasonable fear of serious injury or death. In that case, the "or prevent a forcible felony (e.g., of manslaughter)" becomes the ONLY operative justification.

Redbrow

Does Florida consider bashing someone's head into the sidewalk aggravated assault?

Pounding someone's head against a slab of concrete, in most states, would constitute an aggravated assault, justifying the use of deadly force.
http://utahgunowners.com/james-d-'mitch'-vilos-attorney-at-law/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-and-florida's-'stand-your-ground-'/

Attorney Vilos is the co-author of the book Self-Defense Defense Laws of All 50 States available on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Plain-Talk-Summaries-Limited-Edition/dp/0984505806

Beasts of England

Today, in our local paper, there was a ~500-word article about GZ's protest of the SPD in re: the homeless black man's beat-down. A solidly left leaning paper - must have slipped by the Editor somehow. Or, they're crawfishin' a little - hoping to avoid an O'Mara/GZ libel suit in the coming years.

Bruce

I assume that you have been through this before, but...

Just to add, the reasonable use of deadly force might be by a third party, not a person who is in reasonable fear of serious injury or death. In that case, the "or prevent a forcible felony (e.g., of manslaughter)" becomes the ONLY operative justification.
There seem to be three different statutes that bear on this subject.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
776.031 Use of force in defense of others.
A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
The first two statutes would seem to allow deadly force in the protection of others, whereas the third seems limited to the defense of property - and presumably one of the first two would apply if there were a "reasonably [belief] that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another".

Not quite sure what I am trying to say here, or where I differ from you here, except that it appears to me that someone who is not acting illegally is typically justified in using deadly force to protect his own life or that of another, and in some cases, to prevent certain crimes (e.g. "forcible felonies").

MJW

According to Bay News 9:
A hearing is set for Friday, June 1 at 1:30 p.m. on the State's Motion for Protective Order.

MJW

That was meant to be a block quote, not bold. At least I didn't drop a tag.

gorra new era

Første Ting, jeg er attraktion i din blog, hvad du skriver og stil og gennemprøvede. Tak. Mine bedste ønsker til dig.

Ignatius J Donnelly

Today, in our local paper, there was a ~500-word article about GZ's protest of the SPD in re: the homeless black man's beat-down. A solidly left leaning paper - must have slipped by the Editor somehow. Or, they're crawfishin' a little - hoping to avoid an O'Mara/GZ libel suit in the coming years.

The New York Daily News ran a similar story three days ago. Robert Z Jr. mentioned the incident almost two months ago. Crusading reporters have just discovered it.
CBS Sunday morning talked about it a few weeks ago with no mention of Z's protest.

Ignatius J Donnelly

Someone here mentioned that GZ's holster was located almost at his back. Anyone know if that was true?

Ignatz

--Someone here mentioned that GZ's holster was located almost at his back. Anyone know if that was true?--

I believe it was merely speculation, a commodity for which there seems an endless supply, which is probably why it's free.

cboldt

I'll speculate that Zimmerman was wearing the holster and firearm at somewhere between the 4 and 5 o'clock positions, but it could have been close to the 6 o'clock position. Most people don't carry there, though, as it is uncomfortable when seated, creates a non-trivial risk of spine injury on a fall, and makes the weapon more difficult to reach.

DebinNC

I read, who knows where, the gun was in the 4-5 o'clock position, and didn't become visible to Trayvon until GZ began wriggling to get his head off the cement and onto the grass.

Ignatius J Donnelly

When the the police arrived at the scene TM's feet were facing the sidewalk, his head was facing "John's" house. I would assume GZ head and feet were in the same positions.
The police found GZ's sidewalk claim suspicious
John originally said TM and GZ were almost on his patio. Later, John says they were on the sidewalk and TM was basically just pinning GZ down. The going for the gun claim and the being smothered claim were both greeted with skepticism by the police.
I'll be interested to hear testimony and or read any transcript of Z's description of the events

Tom Maguire
I read, who knows where, the gun was in the 4-5 o'clock position...

Bob Owen of PJ Media left that thought in a comment here a few days ago; I don't know if he also published it elsewhere.

I am sure we have some concealed carry experts here (I am not an expert. In fact, I still struggle carrying a darn cell phone), but it is the sort of thing Bob ought to know and it sounded quite plausible.

Tom Maguire
Confessions can be suppressed from trial, and O'Mara does not want a suppressible confession being front page news.

In the spirit of 'No Dead Horse Left Behind, Unbeaten" - my understanding from the motion is that O'Mara has not reviewed Zimmerman's statements himself yet (I have the rebuttable impression he has not even received them). He would have to be insane to let Crump get a look at that material before he did. Even knowing cboldt would be reading it too.

AliceH

Ignatius, where did you see this --> "When the the police arrived at the scene TM's feet were facing the sidewalk, his head was facing "John's" house."

I'm going through the 130pg pdf now, but if you have a pg#, I'd appreciate it.

This image is via Conservative Tree House. The orientation is we are facing WEST, with John's house to the left/SOUTH. Note there are both E-W and N-S sidewalks -- it's a corner.

AliceH

Oh - I meant to add that I did find on pg 16 statement by Ofcr Anthony Raimondo that he found TM "with his head oriented in the general direction of North".

This is inconsistent with your remark that TMs head facing "John's house".

ADHD

Thanks Alice, I stand corrected. I remember in March seeing on the telly that the police questioned Z about what they saw as the inconsistancy in the position of TM's body and Z's story of sidewalk head pounding.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/charles_m_blow/index.html
Don't laugh. This is late March. I had become fascinated with MsNBC the liberal FOX!
For many reasons I don't have cable. Blow was my source. :(

ADHD

I tired of MSNBC perty darn quick

Ignatius J Donnelly

But Treehouse doesn't give the orientation of the body, just the location. I believe Z told the Detectives that he shifted his body off the sidewalk, aand at least once Z tried to scurry away but TM pounced on him again.
I will search for the info we seek.

Ignatius J Donnelly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCE1TpvH_-E&feature=related
Wow! I'll post this without even watching it first

The video with the 13 year old witness is still up as well

AliceH

Ignatius - I think Z's story was actually the story as conveyed to reporters by his father / brother. I don't think we've seen or heard anything directly from Z, have we? Just something to keep in mind.

Treehouse just provides the map (North is --> in that image) with some markers to key elements, but the statement by Ofcr Anthony Raimondo (pg 16 of the pdf) gives us the orientation -- that he found TM "with his head oriented in the general direction of North".

Are you also commenting as ADHD? Or is that someone else?

Ignatius J Donnelly

That was me. I'll stick to iggy from now on.

The position story was one I heard on a talk show in March

Ignatius J Donnelly

http://cdn2.dailycaller.com/2012/05/eab2d3ba8f5d4f2e937969185a2fe257.jpg


Crime Scene photo

cboldt

-- But Treehouse doesn't give the orientation of the body, just the location. --

The treehouse annotated photo puts Martin's body too close to the tee intersection. I think he ended up 40 feet or so south of the position marked on that photo.

AliceH

So... I'll keep looking. Probably. Most of the maps and links and commentary surrounding the what-happened-when/who-was-where stuff go back to early days before I was paying much attention.

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Wilson/Plame