Zimmerman Medical Evidence

Two new stories on medical evidence in the Zimmerman case:

ABC:

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Unsurprising, considering neighbors had reported a bandaged-up Zimmerman weeks ago.

WFTV9:

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles

SANFORD, Fla. —

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

Richard Kurtz, a black (IIRC) mortician who serves the black community, had the good sense to see nothing unusual about Martin when he prepared him for the funeral. Anyone who took that seriously is surprised by the current report. Since you ask, I expressed reservations about the mortician at the end of this old post.

MORE: The all-news WCBS 880 in New York provides this narrative-shifting coverage:

George Zimmerman's head wounds after Trayvon Martin shooting likely bolster self-defense claims

(CBS News) Medical records showing that George Zimmerman was treated for a fractured nose and cuts to the back of his head after fatally shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin will likely bolster Zimmerman's argument that Martin attacked him, CBS News legal analyst Jack Ford said on "CBS This Morning" Wednesday.

...

"This now allows the defense to show up in the courtroom, let George Zimmerman tell his story and bring in a medical expert that says, 'Black and blue under the eyes, broken nose, cut on the back of the head,'" said Ford, "and the defense can argue that's consistent with George Zimmerman being attacked by Trayvon Martin, and then the Stand Your Ground defense comes into play."

Well, Stand Your Ground doesn't apply when you are lying on the ground, but we get his drift.

They have some pushback a bit later in the story:

Ford, a former prosecutor, said that the medical report's revelations, while not good for the prosecution, don't exactly torpedo their case.

"Here's what you're going to get: I'm sure the prosecution is going to say, 'Hey, you know what this shows? This shows that Trayvon Martin was fighting for his life because he was attacked by George Zimmerman here,'" said Ford, "and the defense is going to say, 'That's not so at all, and we've got the medical testimony to show it.'"

Hmm. Just how are they going to contradict Zimmerman's story? From the Zimmerman bond hearing when O'Mara, the defense counsel, was grilling Gilbreath, the lead investigator for the state:

O'MARA: [Do you have] Any evidence that conflicts any eyewitnesses, anything that conflicts with the contention that Mr. Martin assaulted first?

GILBREATH: That contention that was given to us by him, other than filling in the figures being one following or chasing the other one, as to who threw the first blow, no.

The state can certainly speculate but at some point their story needs to explain these injuries to Zimmerman and Martin. How they establish beyond a reasonable doubt their theory of Zimmerman as a depraved aggressor without actual evidence remains a bit of a puzzle. Jeralyn Merritt offers a well-informed guess as to the state's theory but doesn't think it will fly.

Comments

[Mark Folkestad]

A dear friend, now passed on, Dr. Shin Tanaka, a graduate of Duke's med school and a urologist, shared his feelings with me about the internment. His family felt secure, because they were no longer afraid of lynch mobs coming for them. He said that rations were often short and of poor quality, but that no one would starve to death on them. When the internment reparations issue came up, Shin was vocal in his opposition. But once reparations were authorized, he said that he would have been a fool not to take his share, since his taxes helped to pay the reparations. Shin's father was a Christian pastor who served a group of congregations in Korea first, and then the family moved to Washington State in the mid-Thirties, where there were Japanese farm workers in need of a pastor. Shin's father refused repatriation when the war broke out, because he opposed the militarism back home. The Japanese government had said that they would be required to settle in the pastor's home town for the duration of the war. That happened to be Hiroshima, and Shin always said that he considered the internment camp to be a much happier residence for the war.

I brought some walleye fillets to Shin and his wife Susan (of Danish and Norwegian roots) one time. Shin was the cook in the household, and I was shocked when he cooked the walleye tempura-style. But I loved the result.

Shin's wife retained her maiden name, Hellerud (distinctly Norwegian), for professional purposes. One day the UPS man showed up and Shin opened the door. He was just out of the shower, with a magnificent embroidered silk robe on. The delivery man was in shock. He kept looking back and forth between Shin and his clipboard, finally stammering out: "Are you Mr. Hellerud?"

[Danube of Thought]

It's beginning to become evident that responding to dublindave is not doing a favor to this website. As we have seen with others before him, he is content to load up every thread with his unintelligible garbage.

[dublindave]

"If the cities were occupied (presumably by our troops or those of our allies) why would we bomb them?"

Sigh.

Eh,yeah,you're right,why bomb cities that are occupied militarily?

Could be we didn't drop an atomic bomb on Nagasaki or Hiroshima(or contemplete bombing 7 other cities).Or, it could be the usage of the word "occupation" refers to "civilian occupation"...maybe...could be.....

"And how is it I've never read the horror stories of the US bombing its own occupation troops with nuclear weapons?"

Actually,funny enough, we did accidentally fire-bomb our own Allied-forces who occupying Japanese cities.

I can't remember the exact details of of how many casualities but we did it!

[dublindave]

sorry...why firebomb cities that are occupied by our own allied-forces...

[Ignatz]

The shithouse rat is not only crazy but toweringly and invincibly ignorant.

[centralcal]

DoT - the "others before him" were all him. It is just Professor Dana Ward of Pitzer College under a new name, but the same old garbage posts.

[sailor]

Can we just not acknowledge?

[jimmyk]

duda's been narcisolated, but did he actually claim that Japan had surrendered unconditionally before the A-bombs were dropped? Yowza!

[dublindave]

"It's beginning to become evident that responding to dublindave is not doing a favor to this website. As we have seen with others before him, he is content to load up every thread with his unintelligible garbage."

I'm sorry you feel this way.

I've actually only responded to one thread in the last few days..."Zimmerman medical evidence".

I'm aware the conversation has swayed from the original point but i'm not actually to blame for that.

I don't like people who tell other people what to do.If people find the substance of my srguement too weak to respond too that's their decision to make.

This little campaign to get rid of me is childish.Let's be friends,DOT,and try to debate each other in the spirit of the first amendment where freedom of speech is not sqaushed because you don't like what's being said.

[rse]

Rick-thanks for linking to Georgia Mom. She actually contacted me off line with more details. Last year Georgia passed a statute that includes a reference to the type of "including but not limited to" language that no lawyer would allow a client to sign. I took the point to the mat against the former interim Super and then GC at the State Dept of ED in a meeting a few months ago. I said only Congress or the state legislature can authorize psychologically intrusive practices and individual monitoring. The hullaballoo is part of what made Orrin Hatch derail Goals 2000 in Congress. The Ga legislature blissfully passes language with that inclusive definition with no knowledge that it was even controversial. When I finally got everyone recognizing what had been authorized legally as long as it was referred to as a soft skill, the State Super said he wouldn't allow such a thing. He was horrified at that reading. I had to tell him that he couldn't stop a district super or school principal.

I had no idea super and principals began pushing that crap as soon as the ink was dry. There's a woman named Anita Hoge who was the whistleblower on related emotional machinations in Pennsylvania about 20 years ago. This psychologically manipulative practices was implicated in a teen suicide by hanging in Pa. It was also implicated in Columbine.

LUN is today's post on why the emotional/psychological/ behavioral emphasis is so important.

It's not about what they teach so much as actively trying to prevent anything that would nurture the conceptual, analytical, logical abilities that make the human mind unique. They also make it far less vulnerable to manipulation.

One of the favorite sources for modern ed theory actually says "we need to prevent the human ability to create abstract mental worlds."

Holding elections means little when government's are licensing that level of intrusiveness in education.

[Devil's Advocate]

Japan was trying to negotiate terms of surrender.....with the Russians. Stalin kep' that to himself and Russia and Japan still are embroiled in a dispute over land Russia grabbed in the waning days of the war.

[Porchlight]

Great news about the Nebraska primary, Lesley! xoxoxo back atcha...

[Justice For Dublin Dave!]

Dublin Dave is shunned?
Why not just debate him?
Bring your facts and hold your mud.
Sometimes this happy little Conservonut circle jerk gets pretty boring.

[Redbrow]

Nobody here is surprised about Zimmerman's injury.

The big story is that Trayvon had very obvious injuries to his fists even though we were told several time by his Funeral Director that Trayvon had no such injuries with absolute certainty.

Crump had access to these autopsy reports the whole time, yet he perpetuated the Funeral Directors lies. These lies were reported by the MSM with vigor and played a large part in sparking outrage and racial tensions.

This funeral director and former NAACP chapter president conspired with Crump in a very obvious manner. Why isn't this blatant conspiracy and fraud bigger news?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

ChaCo-You are up late or early.

Both. Went to bed early, woke up and couldn't get back to sleep.

If you see any stories out your way on upset parents, can you link them to my attention?

You bet.

[pagar]

"I don't believe that people should be able to own guns," Obama replied.

Isn't Chicago a place where decent people have a very difficult time legally obtaining guns?

http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/

"Last year, fatal stabbings accounted for about 6 percent of the 442 homicides recorded in Chicago, according to RedEye data."

IMO, there is no way the leftists are going to take guns away from criminals. It would upset too many of their voters.

[NK]

Devil's Advocate-- That frantic few weeks Staring August 9th when the Red Army stormed into Manchuria is very unclear. Bottomline, Stalin was dragging his feet on the USSR commitment to make war on Japan (as agreed at Teheran in 1943) until japanese resistance was collapsing (Hiroshima was August 6th) and he saw the opportunity to grab Manchurian resources before the war ended and China regained sovereignty. Another bottomline, the soviet invasion was a bloodbath for the Japanese Imperial Army and it definitely helped convince the Emperor and war cabinet to surrender. Beyond those facts, is alot of revisionist history of dubious value.

[Clarice]

It's off topic a bit but you know J Edgar Hoover always believed that the Japanese Americans posed no threat of disloyalty,It was Earl Warren who was for it and FDR's Solicitor general who lied to the Sup Ct to get an ok for the internment.

Japanese regard it as a point of honor to be loyal to their country. I regularly visit my grand daughter's dojo--judo school. It is one of the oldest if not the oldest --in the country. It was started by Japanese American farmers in what is now Los Angeles. It is the center of the Japanese American community and it would bring tears to your eyes to see how the children are brought up to love this country, their families and their community. How much pride they take in academic and athletic competition and how much time they spend on character development.To think that this people were so mistreated during the war largely because of avarice for the farms they'd built up with such hard work and prejudice still stings me.

[NK]

Dana-- I think you need medical help.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I will never understand the overwhelming need to prevent people from negotiating the terms of their employment.

Thereby revealing significant personal insight ("I will never understand") while offering a marvelous example of a straw man ("need to prevent people from negotiating the terms of their employment.")

When you grasp why the second is a straw man, you'll resolve the first.

[sailor]

I think you know why, Redbrow--doesn't fit the narrative.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

When I am in Japan, or talking with Japanese clients or Japanese-Americans, that's the way I refer to them.

An d when you leave the room, they refer to you as "that asshole."

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Japan was trying to negotiate terms of surrender.....with the Russians. Stalin kep' that to himself and Russia and Japan still are embroiled in a dispute over land Russia grabbed in the waning days of the war.

Yeah. One of those things that doesn't make the histories much, but my dad was flying missions against the Russians in 1945-1946 over the far north of Japan.

[Justice For Dublin Dave!]

Charlie, what kind of missions?

[Clarice]

The Japanese American father of a friend of mine served as an intelligence officer for the US Army during WWII. He said when Eleanor Roosevelt came to visit his base in the states, all the Japanese American soldiers were forced into the stockade until she left.

Imagine.

And imagine what such outrages were never reported.

[Matthew Butch]

Actually i'm looking forward to the medical explanation that shows us how a broken nose and two black eyes can magically appear on a persons face 12 hours after that person was apparently assaulted.
Seriously? I know YOU won't understand- since you're a poster child for cognitive dissidence- but again, for others on the fence I'm responding.

It can be hard to tell a broken nose from a bruised one with an x-ray. And since GZ didn't go to the doctors until the next day, that's easy. Bruises and black eyes can take up to 24 hours to show due to how long it take blood to seem into the surrounding tissues. Haven't you ever run into a doorframe and seen no sign of injury until the next day when a bruise appears?

So even if you can't see that on a grainy security footage, that doesn't mean its there. I like how you also ignore the lacerations on the back of the head- which CAN be seen on the footage.

you'll see alot of NRA scum who helped draft these SYG laws scurrying out from under the rocks we lift in an effort to understand how this tragedy was allowed to happen.

What's wrong with SYG laws? Which, BTW, don't even apply in this case, and which are supported by a majority of the public.

This tragedy happened because a kid thought he was tough, and wanted to prove it. It happened because black culture eschews education and responsibility. Its sad, but that is what needs to change.

[NK]

Clarice-- couldn't agree more, the wholesale internment of Japanese was shameful, and had more to do with california election politics than national security. An East Coast general advocated wholesale german-american internment on the east coast-- hell in january 1942 German U-Boats were doing alot of damage in the Gulf of Mexico and off North carolina meanwhile the Imperial Japanese Navy was in the Phillipines and Singapore. Roosevelt said no-- again election politics, alot of german votes in NY and Pa. Disgraceful period. same goes for the Supreme Court in the habeas cases.

[dublindave]

"When you grasp why the second is a straw man, you'll resolve the first."

Roflmao..there's a rebuttal for the ages.....'you're wrong but I wont tell you why you're wrong, you figure it out on your own and when you've done it tell me so I can safely declare victory'....

Jesus christ, i'm typing while laughing my ass off at the sheer mental laziness of that........it's like slacker debate.....

[Ignatz]

--This little campaign to get rid of me is childish.--

I believe the shithouse rat volunteered numerous times to leave if anyone asked him to and in fact said he was leaving.
Stupid and a liar?.

[Ignatz]

--An d when you leave the room, they refer to you as "that asshole."--

I believe he was saying he referred to them as Japanese or Japanese American not Jap.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

To think that this people were so mistreated during the war largely because of avarice for the farms they'd built up with such hard work and prejudice still stings me.

Yeah. There aren't many of them left, but I've been attending the Buddhist Church (yes, yes, they call it a temple now, but us old-timers still remember when it was the Tri-State Buddhist Church and met in what was once Mattie Silk's whorehouse) for damn near 40 years and when I was a kid and the only gaijin there, there were a lot of little old men and little old ladies who were interned. Oddly, I don't recall any of them ever having much good to say about it.

As to Dr Shin who was glad he avoided the lynch mobs, I'd say that usually, we protect American citizens from lynch mobs with police, not by taking their property and then them to internment camps where they suffered privation at best and often died from inadequate medical care.

[Clarice]

I had an office adjoining Joe Rauh's when the Japanese Americans came to beg him to take up the case for reparations for them. What they were seeking was more for honor than for money because the amount each would receive never compensated for their losses. He thought they couldn't win and told them so , but they wanted to try for it anyway. I cannot tell you how much joy there was in the office when they won.

Year's later my d-i-l whose family suffered mightily as a direct consequence of the internment was able to use her family's share to pay her portion of her Harvard tuition, Joe was dead when I learned of that, but his widow said he'd have been overjoyed to hear that.

[dublindave]

When I am in Japan, or talking with Japanese clients or Japanese-Americans, that's the way I refer to them.An d when you leave the room, they refer to you as "that asshole."

Why would a group of Japanese business men refer to me as "that asshole"?

Why would I be in a room full of Japs?????

Their slanty eyes freak me out!

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Charlie, what kind of missions?

He was a B-24 pilot and then navigator (after he was wounded and couldn't get an okay to pilot from the flight surgeon) and my understanding is that they involved dropping big bang-y things, as well as recon.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I believe he was saying he referred to them as Japanese or Japanese American not Jap.

If that's what he meant, then I apologize, but on re-reading, since he's defending using the word "Jap", it didn't seem so.

[dublindave]

"I believe the shithouse rat volunteered numerous times to leave if anyone asked him to and in fact said he was leaving.
Stupid and a liar"

I'm secondary to the subjects being discussed(and anyway I said i'd leave if Tom asked me-he hasn't-vote of confidence right there!!!!)

Are you feeling the Danube of thought pressure?You can think for yourself and don't need to ask me to leave just because Danube is unhappy his edict was ignored by everyone except Clarice.

As I said,i'm not important..the subjects being discussed are.

[Clarice]

I didn't read it as a defense of "Jap" either.

[Jim,MtnView,Ca,USA]

MButch: "...you're a poster child for cognitive dissidence.."

I'm staking out the position that 'cognitive dissidence' is perfectly cromulent. In this instance of its use.

[Danube of Thought]

"An d when you leave the room, they refer to you as 'that asshole.'"

How the fuck would you know?

[dublindave]

Time for lunch!!!!!!!

Later girls!!!

[NK]

Honestly FWIW- I think DoT and Charlie had a miscommunication about "Jap". They can go back and read the comments, it was a misunderstanding IMO.

[Danube of Thought]

"I believe he was saying he referred to them as Japanese or Japanese American not Jap."

You are correct.

[Danube of Thought]

I apologize too, Charlie--I posted at 12:30 without seeing your 12:26.

[Ignatz]

--Are you feeling the Danube of thought pressure?--

He's got psychic powers? Who knew?
You should leave because for me your entertainment value has now been eclipsed by the tedium of your repeating weeks old idiocies in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary.
At least buub has the decency to try and cover his ass [unsuccessfully] when new evidence emerges.

[Rob Crawford]

So despite evidence of Zimmerman BEING assaulted, and of St. Trayvon COMMITTING assault, the 'tards are still pushing their line of BS?

Fundamental truth: they will not be happy unless we are all subject to the whims of whoever can gather up the biggest mob.

[Mark Folkestad]

Charlie, police are, as the saying goes, only minutes away, when seconds count. I am NOT justifying the quasi-legal theft of real estate and personal property. I was repeating the strongly-held opinion of a highly-intelligent professional who WAS an internee. Shin's family had no significant assets to lose in this country. After the war, Shin was able to get family treasures held by relatives in Japan. By the way, history buffs may remember the name Tanaka. But Dr. Shin Tanaka had no kinship with Baron Tanaka, the famed militarist. Shin, however, was second-cousin to the current emperor, Akihito.

[Clarice]

For fun, I was looking at the Sawtelle dojo website and found my granddaughter's picture on several of the headers and on their video--she's the little girl with blonde hair--hard to miss..heh.

[Rob Crawford]

At least buub has the decency to try and cover his ass [unsuccessfully] when new evidence emerges.

All buub is good for is hearing what the identity left considers the current pravda.

[Rob Crawford]

I'd say that usually, we protect American citizens from lynch mobs with police

Actually, the traditional defense is a counter-mob exercising its 2nd Amendment rights.

The police are, sadly, too often part of the mob or too frightened to stand up to it.

[Justice For Dublin Dave!]

Actually, the traditional defense is a counter-mob exercising its 2nd Amendment rights.

Like Harlan County?

[Justice For Dublin Dave!]

Robbie,
Or Archbishop Hughes threatening to turn Philly into "another Moscow"?

[NK]

Ig-- I've engaged Dana in 2-3 polite comment conversations that amazingly were productive (i.e. private education for children, his only problem with GWB was flawed Iraq strategy). But at this point I've seen enough to conclude that Dana suffers from some clinical condition. DoT has been right about not engaging him.

[Ignatz]

--Ig-- I've engaged Dana in 2-3 polite comment conversations that amazingly were productive (i.e. private education for children, his only problem with GWB was flawed Iraq strategy).--

Not sure what that's in reference to NK.
I don't believe the Inchworm is Dana, and weedumbassdavey and buub are the only two people I have referred to in this thread.

[NK]

OK - DD is not Dana, my mistake, apologies all around. That said, recent BenF postings have been bizarre, so no more Dana engaging for me.

[dublindave]

Not sure what that's in reference to NK.
I don't believe the Inchworm is Dana, and weedumbassdavey and buub are the only two people I have referred to in this thread.

Well Danube of thought has been telling lots of people who they should and shouldn't respond too so it's easy to get confused about who is on his list.

Dana for some people,Dublindave for others,Ben franklin etc.

Now ignatz just asked me to leave because he'd just received a communication from Danube of thought pushing this.

Danube doesn't like someone they've got to go..........

[Danube of Thought]

Intrade has Walker at .82 now.

[dublindave]

OK - DD is not Dana, my mistake, apologies all around. That said, recent BenF postings have been bizarre, so no more Dana engaging for me.

Danube of thought will be happy.

I'm also on the list so you might not want to not me anymore either.

You are a dutiful soldier and anyway,it's all for the preservation and the good of the group.

[dublindave]

sorry....i'm also on the list so you might not want to talk to me anymore......

[Ignatz]

--Now ignatz just asked me to leave because he'd just received a communication from Danube of thought pushing this.--

Yes, weeDavey we all talk about you behind your back with our mind rays.
I want to say just one word to you Benjamin Davey; Tinfoil.

[jimmyk]

Intrade has Walker at .82 now.

Even Barry is starting to inch down now, down to 58 from 60 a couple weeks ago. Still a great short opportunity.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Shin Tanaka

Damn, I don't know how I managed to confuse "Shin" with a family name.

But yeah, I can imagine if the Tanakas didn't have their home, farm, or business taken from them and didn't lose family members to the endemic tuberculosis, dysentery, and pneumonia, and didn't have any trouble establishing themselves after they were released, they might not take it as hard as all the people I've known who were interned.

"Tanaka", by the way, is one of the most common Japanese surnames.

[dublindave]

"Yes, weeDavey we all talk about you behind your back...."

Ssssssssshhhhh!!!!Dude,he's reading this post what the hell are you doing?

You're breaking ranks,man,i'm not worth it,save yourself.

[matt]

When I was a kid a friend of my dad's was a leader of the LA Japanese community and had been interned. He was an attorney and didn't talk much about it.

But as I grew older and read about how Asians were treated in this country, specifically in the West, I could not but be ashamed. The discrimination was unbelievable, whether you were Irish, Italian, Bohemian, or especially Asian. They were all untermenschen.My mother remembered the NINA signs on the East Coast in the 30's and 40's. And the discrimination against Jews on the West Coast was legendary.

When the war broke out, people were afraid, but it was Warren who really lit the fuse. The Japanese who migrated here were the ones who saw no future in Japan for the most part. Migration was antithetical to their culture. And yet these people who so wanted to be American were the ones most discriminated against.

The camps were awful.Usually in windswept deserts, there was no food, no heat, and no space for thousands of American citizens. Thousands died from the conditions in the camps. And yet they began to thrive again. Some of the stories are amazing. And the young men, all they wanted to do was volunteer to prove their worth.

There is a monument to the 442nd Regiment in Little Tokyo I've visited a number of times. Usually there is some old timer there to tell the story. Every time, I try to make sure whoever I'm with hears the story. Those kids came out of the camps for the most part and gave their lives for a country that really didn't want their kind.

This country has grown tremendously since the war, and that really was the dividing point. When the blacks came home and the Japanese came home and the GI Bill broke open academia and the professions, that was the time when discrimination began to die, finally.

MLK did more than anyone to open the door and yet now we find a whole new generation of race baiters and grievance pushers. This is one reason I get so upset with the Left.

[Clarice]

Me, too, matt.

[NK]

Matt-- thanks for that heartfelt summary @1:23. For the reasons you layout, this son of an Immigrant loves America. America has given more freedom to more individual people than the rest of mankind's history combined, and Americans reform the faults in our republic better than any other society in history. And yes, for those reasons the current race hustlers, including the Once and Fauxcahontas, are detestible.

[Ignatz]

--The camps were awful.Usually in windswept deserts, there was no food, no heat, and no space for thousands of American citizens.--

Yeah, I often drive by the site of the Manzanar camp on the east side of the Sierras between Lone Pine and Bishop. That is one cold place in the winter and just as hot in the summer. Just a small monument there now.

[Mark Folkestad]

Yeah, Charlie, I know that Tanaka is a common name. But few do know that, and one of Shin's pet peeves was that most Americans and Europeans who had heard the name seemed to assume he had to be related to the militarist. And I never said the conditions in the camps were perfect, or that the thefts before and during the internment were in any way justified, or that the internees generally didn't have a major struggle after release. What I said was that one individual's experience was, on the whole, positive, and that because of his experience, HE didn't feel that a blanket reparation payment was justified. Shin DID vigorously support specific restitution for theft or loss of farmland, homes, businesses and personal effects.

During the few years that we lived in Moorhead, across the river from Fargo, Mom befriended a younger woman in our church. She was nominally Norwegian, but most of her background was Sami/Lapp. Because of her high cheekbones and slanted eyes, and despite her Norwegian name, light brown hair, blue eyes and pale skin, other kids in her small NW Minnesota town made life miserable for her during WWII, calling her many names, the least offensive of which was "dirty Jap". I like to think that we have grown, as a society, beyond that cruelty and crudity.

[dublindave]

MLK did more than anyone to open the door and yet now we find a whole new generation of race baiters and grievance pushers. This is one reason I get so upset with the Left.

I'm not sure I agree with your characterization,Matt.

The Bush Administration used the fears surrounding 9/11 to push through some pretty awful legislation and even raised the terror alert from time to time for nefarious reasons.

We can through example after example of the how political institutions incite and use fear to acheive a political aim,it's been done since time immemorial.

Now,inciting a fear doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.Al qaeda were foiled on several occasions and racism,even though it's gotten better for alot for African-Americans,is alive and well.

What's really worrying is that you think these kinds of political games are a characterisitic of only one political group.
That truly saddens me man.

Even though i'm a democrat I can recognise every single awful thing about my party and find myself having to stomach their constant cowardice and other unsavoury traits.

I'd hate to be in a party where I couldn't see what exactly was wrong with that party.I'd hate to have to defend the indefensible just because it was"my team".

This is where I believe the Republican party is going wrong.It doesn't have the capacity to marshall itself or the ideas of some of it's more extreme members.

[Ignatz]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I don't think you know how to spell it either.

[Cecil Turner]

Well, I have a couple politically incorrect observations. First, the idea that there was no security threat from the Japanese (non-citizens comprised approximately 1/3 of those interned) and Japanese-American population is risible. Of course there was. The indefensible part of the internment program is the broad-brush approach that didn't even attempt to identify the security threats. The contention that it was all about politics, and racism, and hence demonstrates the moral equivalence of the US and the Axis (since Hitler's real sin was that he was a bigot, as all modern leftists know), is similarly risible.

And however indefensible, there is a stark contrast to the treatment of disparate populations in certain other countries (or Japan's treatment of their occupied territories). By comparison . . . well, actually, there is no comparison.

[dublindave]

"I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I don't think you know how to spell it either."

I feel like i'm in an underground garage talking to deepthroat.

Are you talking to me,ignatz?

If so blink twice.

If you were talking to me what word do you believe I don't know the meaning of?

You can also email me your reply to avoid detection.

[Danube of Thought]

We go by Manzanar on Route 395 on the way to and from Mammoth mountain, where we had a ski condo for a while. A very forbidding place. The camp was well memorialized by Ansel Adams, who I believe published an entire book of photos from there.

It is a truly shameful chapter in American history.

Daniel Inouye was seriously wounded in the 442nd, and lost the use of his arm.

[Ignatz]

Look up marshal, Inchworm.

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I generally can tell a DuDa post by its disjointed presentation and faux british locution, lousy grammar, etc., etc. When I spot that stuff, I scroll through.

DuDa's 1:28 post fooled me and I read it. I think DuDa's usual persona here is as phony as some of his arguments.

[dublindave]

"generally can tell a DuDa post by its disjointed presentation and faux british locution, lousy grammar, etc., etc. When I spot that stuff, I scroll through.

DuDa's 1:28 post fooled me and I read it. I think DuDa's usual persona here is as phony as some of his arguments."

I didn't have a post at 1.28.

Maybe the problem is your eyes not my writing style.

Booom! nother shot of credibility courtesy of the local idiots.

[pagar]

"I like to think that we have grown, as a society, beyond that cruelty and crudity."

I don't see how anyone can look at how Sarah Palin and other Christians are treated in the USA today and believe that.

"World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population. The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count of human losses."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

54,559,615 total US Abortions since 1973!

http://www.nrlc.org/Factsheets/FS03_AbortionInTheUS.pdf

Any one want to guess what day the number of inconvenient American kids killed by Americans exceeds the number of all WWII casualties?

I do not understand how any American can support this. I do not understand how any American can support any of the leftist beliefs.

[fdcol63]

Just to clarify - my comment at 11:21 AM was not intended to mean that I cavalierly use the term "Jap" myself, or that I use such terms without worrying about offending anyone - especially loyal, patriotic and hardworking American citizens who happen to be of Japanese descent, or that I agree with the US's atrocious policy of internment during WW2.

However, I really don't care if I offend the easily-offended hypocrites who chafe at the use of such terms while thinking nothing of using the term "Yank" or "Anglo" or "round-eye" or "long face" or whatever to describe people like me who are of European descent.

[dublindave]

"Look up marshal, Inchworm"

From Cambridge online dictionary;

"to bring together or organize people or things in order to achieve a particular aim"

Boehners lack of leadership and his inability to control the far right wing members of his house is a testament to this fact.This constant pull between the far far right and the centre is costing you dearly.

And now after being one of the most ineefective houses of congress in history you're about to pay for it at the polls.

Thank you,ignatz,for another shot of credibility.

DublinDave,back on top again.

[dublindave]

You know,maybe people are being asked to ignore me because of the ease to which i'm destroying their arguements.

Sure,I stumble here and there,my grammar and spelling suck apples but the majority of people i've dealt with have come off the worse for wear.

True,there are some posts I ignore,like Rob crawfords moronic answer to Afghans being a viable fighting force or the Japanese Emperor NOT attempting to negotiate a peace treaty prior to dropping the Atomic bombs but they're so weak on substance there's no need to bother.

[NK]

DD is truly mentally ill.....

[dublindave]

sprry....prior to THE dropping of the atomic bombs...

[daddy]

I kid you not, on Megyn's show an anti-Zimmerman Lawyer is saying he would challenge the Medical findings re: Zimm's injuries, because the next morning Zimm went to his family doctor for care.

The Lawyer sez Zimmerman should instead have gone to an Ear Nose Throat specialist with such an injury, therefore since he went instead to his family doctor, that proves Zimm's injuries were not near as substantial he has advertised, and therefore his actions were suspect from the git-go and his family doctor's observations should be considered unreliable.

Pretzel logic much?

[dublindave]

DD is truly mentally ill.....

Let's see if Ignatz can come back with a decent rebuttal.

My guess is he can't because I know what the word 'Marshal' means of I understand it's use within a political context.

[Redbrow]

Why isn't the court web page being updated with discovery or indication that the discovery is officially being withheld for the time being?

Why do some privileged reporters already have access to Corey's list and/or some of the discovery?

Are the leaks illegal? Will the leakers be investigated and prosecuted?

[daddy]

I love the Japanese and Japanese culture, and probably spend more time over there than most. That said, was interesting while browsing for a different topic a few days back, to come upon a US Army publication from 1942, drawn by Milton Caniff, cartoontist for Terry and The Pirates and Steve Canyon. The publication was titled How To Spot A Jap.

So not to offend, but just to indicate the sign of the times shortly after Pearl Harbor.

Also of interest, a link to US WarTime Comic Book covers, to show their racial stereotypes cut all across the spectrum.

Somewhere in a box I still have Batman Number 18, with Batman pounding Hitler, Hirohito and Musolini.

[Clarice]

Well, yes, Cecil, it is the broad brush we are talking about and not the possibiity of some danger--a danger even Hoover did not regard as warranting the broad brush internment--nor even a comparison of treatment between how we treated civilians and how others did.

The Japanese behavior toward civilians in places they occupied and toward soldiers they captured was far worse.

Still, these were law abiding, citizens who were treated extra constitutionally and suffered greatly as a result.

[Rob Crawford]

The Lawyer sez Zimmerman should instead have gone to an Ear Nose Throat specialist with such an injury, therefore since he went instead to his family doctor, that proves Zimm's injuries were not near as substantial he has advertised, and therefore his actions were suspect from the git-go and his family doctor's observations should be considered unreliable.

Except you're usually required to go to your primary physician before any specialists, and I suspect common fight injuries are ones every physician sees during their internship, so...

[charly]

"there are some posts I ignore,like Rob crawfords moronic answer"

You could've stopped there.

I love all the indian lore and japanese hugging.

Rum-butter frosting on road-apple cake.

[lyle]

Still, these were law abiding, citizens who were treated extra constitutionally and suffered greatly as a result.

Agreed. I live about 90 miles from one of the largest internment camps in the country outside of Jerome, ID. It's an eerie place.

[Ignatz]

--Let's see if Ignatz can come back with a decent rebuttal.--

Inchworm said;

"It doesn't have the capacity to marshall itself or the ideas of some of it's more extreme members."

DD then provided this definition;

"to bring together or organize people or things in order to achieve a particular aim"

How could the Republican party bring together or organize the ideas of some of its extreme members in order to achieve its aims?
Had you said 'police', 'control', 'weed out', 'disown', 'suppress', etc, it would have made some sense.

[Redbrow]

ER visits, ambulance trips and unexpected hospital stays are the leading cause of bankruptcy in America these days. Even if you have insurance you can expect to pay tens of thousands out of your own pocket.

It seems Zimmerman can be considered part of the 'working poor.'
Working Americans who don't have very good insurance benefits but they are not poor enough to qualify for free government paid health care like some illegal alien who visits the ER with a mild cold.

[NK]

DD is mentally ill... and illiterate...

[daddy]

Rob,

Under ObamaCare which doctor should a nice White Hispanic with a broken nose have gone to first?

[Jim Rhoads a/k/a vjnjagvet]

I think most people here understood that my 2:20 referred to DuDa's 1:48 post, lest my silence be construed as an admission.

[MarkO]

daddy, I think you meant the Martin Family lawyer. I saw him. Pathetic. The more he speaks, the clearer it is that the case should never have been filed.

I love his glottal stop when he says "Mar-un."

[NK]

I've been a skeptic of the GZ story pending evidence and testimony. The fact that he went to his primary physician first doesn't bother me at all. 3 years ago I brilliantly managed to break 4 ribs playing soccer with college kids on a saturday evening-- the kid who nailed me in the ribs with his studs was a new Harvard grad-- figures. Anyways, I did not go to the hospital straight away. As a typical middle aged moron, I decided to tough it out. when the pain got bad saturday night, I called my PriCare hotline as required by my insurance carrier; at 200am they told me to go to the Emergency Room, and they called ahead. If my PriCare was open they would have seen me first. So GZ going to his own physician first is logical as far as I'm concerned.

[cboldt]

-- Why isn't the court web page being updated with discovery or indication that the discovery is officially being withheld for the time being? --

I guess a mixed bag of reasons. Seems the clerk/court practice is to keep all traces of things filed under seal from appearing on the docket, pending a ruling from the judge. So, assuming both redacted and unredacted versions of evidence are submitted, but under a Motion to make only the redacted version public, all items (redacted version and the motion included), the clerk withholds public notification of the submission until after the judge rules.

-- Why do some privileged reporters already have access to Corey's list and/or some of the discovery? --

Given that the medical report came out via Matt Gutman, it's a good bet that the path of communication involves Corey's office and Crump. This group has been cooperating to advocate against Zimmerman for some time.

I'm not so sure about the source for the 8 page redacted witness/statement/evidence list; or the coroner's report.

-- Are the leaks illegal? Will the leakers be investigated and prosecuted? --

The leaks are legal. The information is supposed to be public record, and the holdup in release is to obtain agreement from a court to withhold public release of witness names until such time as testimony is given. The state could release all of the information if it wanted to - the reason it typically holds back is to protect its own interest in confidential informants and ongoing investigations. Neither of those factors is at play in this case.

[Jim,MtnView,Ca,USA]

"ER visits, ambulance trips and unexpected hospital stays are the leading cause of bankruptcy in America these days."

I sometimes walk past a bus stop which has a poster claiming 30% of US children go to bed hungry at night.
(I've read the Thomas Sowell analysis of that claim, enlightening).
I've also seen a billboard that said 17,853 Californians die of second hand smoke each year (I wrote to ask for a list of their names, but no response. "To date not a single death certificate can be found in the world to which a doctor or mortician has concluded that a person's death was caused by SHS or even contributed to the death.")
I wonder if the bankruptcy due to medical expenses meme holds up under scrutiny. Elizabeth "Cheekbones" Warren was a major propagandist. A good starting point is the LUN. It points out some of the intellectual shortcomings of the proponent's case.

[Rob Crawford]

Under ObamaCare which doctor should a nice White Hispanic with a broken nose have gone to first?

The euthanasiast, obviously.

[AliceH]

ER visits, ambulance trips and unexpected hospital stays are the leading cause of bankruptcy in America these days.

Redbrow - tangential to your point but...not sure what your source is. A popular one for that contention is Elizabeth Warren's study from 2005. Read this WSJ commentary for more. Here's a taste:

"the study provided an implausibly broad definition of "medical bankruptcy"—including any filer who reported uncontrolled gambling, drug or alcohol addiction, or the birth or adoption of a child.

"Equally dubious, the authors classified a bankruptcy as having a "major medical cause" if the individual had accumulated more than $1,000 in out-of-pocket medical expenses (uncovered by insurance) over the course of two years prior to filing—regardless of income, and even if the debtor did not cite illness or injury among the reasons for bankruptcy."

That last bit was especially egregious, given AVERAGE out of pocket medical expenses are greater than the study threshold for considering them a principle cause of bankruptcy. It get's even better, though.