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July 26, 2012



--Bob Beckel just said that Romney not stopping in Afghanistan is bad because afterall he has to fly over it anyway to get to Poland. I know I've been out of school a long long time and maps have changed, but I didn't know they'd changed this much._-

Beckel must be using the Bunkerbuster McNally Atlas.


My brother sent me this webcam link to Alaskan bears hanging out waiting for fish to come by and be eaten. (Thinking of daddy).
Relaxing to view...LUN


Bob Beckel just said that Romney not stopping in Afghanistan is bad because afterall he has to fly over it anyway to get to Poland

Sheesh, Bob. Why not just fall off the wagon again? At least it would give you an excuse to sound so monumentally stupid.


And they wonder how Mondale lost every state but his own, LOL.


Mitt intends to snark at all of his int'l hosts, to make himself distinct from that guy who bows all the time. Can't see that approach hurting him, really. Unless, God forbid, English townspeople start writing letters to Americans, urging a vote for Obama. I'll never forget how well that worked in '04, when the Brits pleaded with residents of various Ohio towns to please, please vote for John Kerry (the Brits' badgering achieved the opposite effect).


Claiming the 2nd Amendment is absolute is afactual and ahistorical.

Then suppose you make the case for banning instead of asking others to make the case for not banning.

I notice that is a habit with you, btw. You take a position and then ask others to prove you wrong. And - surprise - you never find their responses to be sufficient to change your position.

I submit that it is up to you to make a case and put it to the group.


(the Brits' badgering achieved the opposite effect).

Well, in fairness, it wasn't ALL Brits. Only the Guardian readers.


Porch@5:24 - exactly.


Ex@4:22-- sarcasm is just avoiding the subject. The 3 arguments against any limitation against 100 round mags that have been posted I would summarize as; 1. useless regulation, the standard 30 round mags are potentially more deadly; 2. slippery slope; and 3. any regulation abridges inalienable rights which are absolute and can never be regulated. Any others that I missed?

Yes; the point of the sarcasm, which was as follows: People like Bloomberg, who claim to be gathering evidence and drawing lines for the benefit of all - such as the prohibition against 16 oz. soda portions - are the same people we're most likely to need 100-round magazines to protect ourselves from. I'm not accusing you of being one of them, but your arguments are similar to theirs.

Laws requiring voters to identify themselves aren't encroaching on anyone's freedom, unlike those prohibiting certain drink sizes and magazine capacities.

Danube of Thought

The right to bear arms, and the right to vote--and even the right to life and liberty--can be and are revoked in many states for those who commit felonies (esp. murder).


DoT@500-- the 14th Amendment made voting an individual due process and equal protection right, and the SCOTUS confirmed those individual rights 140 years before the SCOTUS confirmed the 2nd Amendment was an individual right in Heller. Voting is constitutionally protected, but subject to reasonable regulation that protects the general welfare without undue burdens on the exercise of the vote. To me, Voter ID is completely constitutional for all sorts of balancing reasons. Likewise the 2nd Amendment is subject to limited regulation.


White House won't name capitol of Israel.

A comment there reminds us - "I have heard at least one White House advisor to the President refer to Jerusalem as "Al Quds" (not sure if I spelled that correctly, but it is meant to be the Arab version of the name of the city.)"

It was John Brennan.

JM Hanes


"Why does the liberty interest in possessing 100 round mags outweigh the right to a collective defense against mass murder? What are the objective reasons?"

If you're looking for objective reasons, I'm not why you'd want to take away folks' 100 round magazines, when almost everyone seems to agree that a mass murderer would be far more deadly using 30 round magazines or less. Sounds to me like you're actually dismissing the substantive argument in favor of prohibiting the magazine that just sounds more dangerous. How is that an objective reason? I'm surprised you apparently see no slippery slope attached to preempting mass murder, when the list of killing options is a long one. I can just picture the Commission tasked with determining the how deadly is deadly enough to make the cut -- it will probably consist of the usual suspects whose primary talent is coming up with scary terminology.

It's interesting that according to the F.B.I., the percentage of murders involved 5 or more victims has remained unchanged for a couple decades (or more, I believe). How many 100 round magazines would you expect to find figuring into those crimes?

"The framers frankly did not consider 100 round mags or other mass killing machines in adopting the 2nd Amendment to protect the individual liberty interest in private ownership of weapons."

This is such a specious form of argument. State militias would doubtless have been thrilled to have modern weapons, the more rounds the better. The Framers were certainly capable of articulating a "right to a collective defense against mass murder," but your ex post facto claim seem pretty odd in such close juxtaposition with your endorsement of the 2nd Amendment as an individual right, not a collective one.

Danube of Thought

Heard a guy earlier on Cavuto offering some Gallup data: at this point in their campaigns, Carter had the approval of 24% of Republicans; Bush 41 was at 22% among Dems.

Obama is at 10% among Republicans.

Signs that look like omens, folks.


Seriously Rog, you really know how to pick them;

The journal Campaigns & Elections described the incident this way: "Bob Beckel, manager of Walter Mondale's?1984 landslide presidential campaign loss, resigned from his consulting job?in the wake of a scandal involving a prostitute who allegedly tried to extort $50,000 from him. Beckel told Maryland’s Montgomery County Police Department he had paid the Fairfax County, Virginia, woman $1,900 for sexual liaisons at his Maryland home in late June, and that days later he found a note on his car and a message on his answering machine demanding money and threatening to release evidence of the woman’s visits to his family and the media. Three people from Alexandria, Fairfax County, and Washington, D.C. were arrested and charged with extortion and conspiracy to commit extortion."


LUN to a discussion on the difference between "inalienable" (implying something that *can* be transferred with consent) versus "unalienable" (something which is incapable of being transferred)


The right to bear arms, and the right to vote--and even the right to life and liberty--can be and are revoked in many states for those who commit felonies (esp. murder).

True and just... as those who break teh immutable laws should be subject to punishment. Each instance you cited is an escalating punishment for escalating crimes. The most heinous being murder should be the most severely punished.

An absolutist would find that no punishment should be exacted by man but left to the universe. The founders understood the role of government is to insure that the universe's laws are protecting each individual against the other's failures.


Good Morning.

Dennis Miller sez this hour he will have on Dr Jerome Corsi to discuss his new book, "I investigated myself and discovered I was an Alien:)

Should be a fun hour. They get on well. Apparently it is TAFKAP (Prince) bumper music day.

And on FOX was surprised to just see an ad for the NRO Cruise. Nice to see where Jane, Caro, and (A)B, hang out when crusiing.

Catch up begins.


"""NK: What type of rifle did Holmes have, and what capacity magazine? Are there any 'sportsman' or self-defense uses for that type of gear?""

Obama uses drones with hellfire missiles and 500 lb bombs to kill Americans...he says its self defense.

According to Obamas' standards, this guy was under gunned .


Obama is at 10% among Republicans.

I know it's a nice low number compared to incumbent losers like Carter and Bush '41 but doesn't it just chap your hide that he's even that high?

Danube of Thought

"Mitt Romney at London fundraiser: 'I'm looking forward to the bust of Winston Churchill being in the Oval Office again.',

--Weekly Standard


but doesn't it just chap your hide that he's even that high

We can't help it that the David Frum types putatively side with us.


I thought it was the bullet that was the instrument for killing. Is a bullet more lethal fired from a larger magazine than as a single shot or from a smaller magazine, everything else being equal?


frankly I could give a sh*t about British or German or French opinion. the political start points in those countries are somewhere to the left of Tom Harkin.

Throw in the residual anti- Americanism that is at the heart of the quasi-fascist aristos and a lot of progs over there, and you have a populace that would have let the Soviets roll over Europe if Maggie and Ronnie didn't have the heart to stick to their ideals and plans.

I was there. I saw it and it made me sick because it then infected our own prog populace. It was a bunch of young Americans and Brits for the most part who held the line and now most of that Britain is long gone, replaced with the casbah and a bunch of drunken yahoos. It has become the UK of A Clockwork Orange.

Bob Beckel, Bill Press and the rest of the sewer dwellers really need to get a clue that their histories are readily available on the interwebs and that the attitude of Breitbart is still alive.


This is such a specious form of argument. State militias would doubtless have been thrilled to have modern weapons, the more rounds the better.

IIRC, the redcoats were irked that the militias didn't subscribe to British ways of fighting (lining up the cavalry with the cannon fodder at the front) and instead frequently opted for the more barbaric tactics of the "indians" of ambush and concealment.

War should not be fought by first leveling the playing field even as liberals try to make it so.

The militias would indeed have been ecstatic to have our weapons and an advantage. The cause was that just - Inalienable Rights.

Definition of INALIENABLE
: incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred - Webster.


I've seen a couple of those ads Daddy. I was surprised to learn it is a Holland America cruise. I get a 50% discount with Holland America, so maybe I'll consider going one of these times.


a 100 round magazine is not a mass killing machine, really. It's the asshole behind the trigger. 100 round mags are for Schwarzenegger wannabes.


It's probably Meghan McCain and Reagan's useless kids voting lots of times.

Jack is Back!

Roger, Roger everything posted here by Iggy, CT, DoT and Soylent. As long as its legal and I the buyer is legitimate (no disqualifications for owning or buying armament or ordinance) then its no body's damn business "why" i need a particular product. If I like it then I have every right to own and use it legally. These uptight, hand wringing, sky-is-falling, moon bats who see carnage everywhere except in planned parenthood offices just piss the hell out of me.

In fact, it caused me to drink not one but two damn good, really damn good Caipirinha's today at the Family pool at our hotel in Key Biscayne.

On another note, I see a lot of consternation, even over at The Telly, about Mitt's comments on the readiness of the Olympic. He has ever reason to be concerned and it may be considered a gaffe but what it was was an experienced local olympic organizer and manager voicing that considerable experience - more than Boris Johnson and David Cameron have ever had. And BTW, this will not the be the first time a "newbie" decided that using the military in a "security and access control position" would save his ass and then live to regret it.

I agree, with some, that at times Mitt looks like he is the greeter at a funeral home but believe me when he talks about managing Olympics - people in the know listen. We worked with him at SLC after he called us in and he was a great leader, manager and no nonsense executive. They mad money which, except for LA, no other Olympics venue has ever done. Ask Montreal how that worked out for them.


The Rough Draft reads "[inherent &] inalienable." There is no indication that Congress changed "inalienable" to "unalienable"; but the latter form appears in the text in the rough Journal, in the corrected Journal, and in the parchment copy. John Adams, in making his copy of the Rough Draft, wrote " unalienable." Adams was one of the committee which supervised the printing of the text adopted by Congress, and it may have been at his suggestion that the change was made in printing. "Unalienable" may have been the more customary form in the eighteenth century.

To each his own, I guess. I learned 'in.'


As for our young Prince of Hegel who went batshit crazy, I have to wonder if we have another version of the Penn State University syndrome playing out at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.

What of our growing national crises with malignant administration in Academe?

If the reports are to be believed, the California wunderkind documented in shockingly articulate detail his morbid grandiose obsession that was acted out in that movie theater. It was as if he was doing this in revenge to return the shame and ridicule upon an administration and professorate whom he sought to challenge.

Grandiose, morbid delusion. And he gave the University full warning, apparently. And did he also guess it would be ignored? And did he also intend that if it was ignored and his information unfaithfully mistreated (as he perhaps believed he was) that he would fulfill his act of morbid and grandiose obsession as a final act of revenge ensnaring his tormentors in the sloth of their own doing?

Did he? Who knows. But this will play out.

From the usurious student loan predations to the near-serial instances of academic fraud and paid forays of university sycophants engaged the corruption or contract manufacturing of modern draft legislation, the Hegelian corporate society we call "education" is leaking out upon productive society like a sepsis.

What a tragedy this shooting was. University culture supports the criminalization of concealed and open carry, and would likely praise the movie theater and the City of Aurora for making such illegal. And, because of this vanity, many more were shot and many more died that would have were there one armed honest and decent citizen. But no. That citizen was made the criminal first, and even if dozens were there that evening, they were unarmed, or worse... carried cryptically and dared not draw to stop the shooting for fear they would certainly be made a criminal too.

It's all quite exceptionally sad. Let us watch where the remaining inquiry into the School of Medicine and the role of its faculty may take this investigation.

After all, we need to know. This is the parlor society that wants to run our health care system. They are the doctors who believe they should be allowed to tell our attending physicians what is medically necessary for you and me, though they themselves would never allow themselves to be so academically or personally dirtied as to attend us themselves as their patient.

This new emulation of the Roman Senate sees itself as so superior, they can perfect society by remote control. Yet, it appears they may be unable to reliably deliver something as simple as the daily mail.

And thus, we return to the administrative culture and questions of apparent sloth and hubris having spit the California wunderkind onto the streets of Aurora; grant checks long cashed, of course.

Danube of Thought

"the 14th Amendment made voting an individual due process and equal protection right"

Not for women. And due process and equal protection only guarantee the right to vote against abridgement by a suspect classification.


Ace has this rather porcine pic of Frum, illustrating because he didn't link it, a particularly fulsome column, to Obama,

(Another) Barbara

I get a 50% discount with Holland America, so maybe I'll consider going one of these times.

How do you get that, Sara?





Johnson, I rate slightly higher, because he's kept Livingstone, Quaradawi's pen pal, out of the Mayor's office, but as I learned from Steyn's columns, he was quite eager to deride
us, for our efforts on the front of the last
front, that the Commonwealth 'cut and run' from, Iraq,


As usual free wheeling comments start to lose the plot- for instance the definition of 'Absolute' rights and inalienable rights seem to be moving around. So let me use the terms 'limited' rights and regulation. The Second Amendment is unquestionably subject to such limitations-- In Heller, where for the first time SCOTUS concluded --rightfully -- that the 2nd amendment is an individual right, and not a collective state militia right, SCOTUS ruled that the scope of the 2nd Amendment is not unlimited saying: "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152-153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489-490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students' Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms." So anyone claiming that the 2nd is unlimited-- that is simply afactual and frankly wrong. As Heller holds unequivocally, the 2nd"like most" constitutional rights is "limited" and subject to some regulation -- but no outright ban is permitted. Does anybody here still claim that the amount and type of firepower guaranteed by the 2nd is an UNlimited right, not subject to any stautory regulation?

Captain Hate

I love that pic of Frumsie that ace uses, narc.

[David "John Pinette" Frum]"Does this image make me look fat?"[/David "Tons of" Frum]


It Worked

A few nights ago at a fundraiser, President Obama proudly proclaimed that his economic plan had "worked." Tell that to the millions of Americans now on food stamps. Tell that to the millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet. No Mr. President, it did not work.


Jim Geraghty

When Mr. Romney arrived, the Games were running $387 million short of reaching their planned budget of $1.45 billion. His proposed cuts included a planned $2 million youth camp, an IOC pet project. Cindy Gillespie, who led the committee’s lobbying for federal funding, said Mr. Romney believed “it’s a distraction having to take care of a lot of 12-year-olds during the Games.”

Mr. Romney also cut wetlands restoration, and a decorations budget was whittled to $6 million from more than $20 million, said Fraser Bullock, a Bain Capital executive brought in by Mr. Romney to be the committee’s chief operating officer.

Rather than treating the committee board to their customary lunches, Mr. Romney sold them Domino’s pizza at $1 a slice, Mr. Bullock recalled. Games sponsor Coca-Cola supplied unlimited free soda, but Mr. Romney sold the drinks at 25 cents a can.

“Every line item in the budget was classified as ‘must’ or ‘nice to have,’ ” Mr. Bullock said, and “nice to have” was chopped.


Captain Hate

Have any of you guys seen the ad where the JEF accuses Romney of twisting his words? I'm sensing that the severity of the self-inflicted adventure away from Prompter Room has entered his empty head.


How do you get that, Sara?

It is one of their perks for having cruised with them in the past.


I believe there was a "made for TV" movie made about the situation in Athens, Tennessee.
See LUN.
It is pretty gripping. I wonder if I would have the courage to stand up like those guys did. It's a situation that has occurred countless times in history.
Sometimes survival depends on their being one honest person somewhere in the chain of command leading up from the government thugs.


So, NK make the case for banning 100-round magazines. Not the 'is it legal' case - the objective reasons for one. I don't think it is possible.


This item, from when the author of the piece, that anchors this thread, albeit loosely, makes one feel very verklempt;

Since 2005, Miller has served in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ending his tour as Deputy Director of the Analysis Division. John worked across the Intelligence Community with the CIA, NSA, FBI, and other agencies.

Before joining the FBI, he served from 2003 to 2005 as head of the Counterterrorism and Criminal Intelligence Bureau and the Major Crimes Division of the Los Angeles Police Department, overseeing both the LAPD’s Major Crimes Division, Hazardous Materials Unit and its Bomb Squad.


Dot-- please see my 6:09. The 2nd and 14th constituional rights are both limited rights, subject to some level of regulation. In the case of voting, the States can impose regulations on voting, subject to 14th Amendment due process and equal protection clause guarantees (and of course the dubious 19th Amendment). The 2nd Amendment is subject to limited eligibility and general welfare restrictions. The question is whether it is wise to restrict the size of commercially available magazines, so that a mass killer would have to reload or change weapons sooner-- and would that interruption of the shooting save lives? And would the lives saved justify the limited restriction of lawful gun owners' 2nd amendment rights?


I love this:

Brian Williams, the sonorous news anchor for NBC News, was reading from a script when he asked Romney, the Republican Party’s presumptive presidential nominee, if it’s true he’s seeking an “incredibly boring white guy” for a running mate.

“You told me you were not available,” Romney replied, laughing.


Who has the right to VOTE libtads?

Prove you are that person.



AliceH--limiting commercially available magazine size would force a mass killer to stop and use a new loaded weapon or reload the first with the spent magazine. That interruption could allow the people being shot at, and or cops, to overpower the shooter and end the mass murder. A inventive mass killer could circumvent the commercial ban by fabricating a large custom magazine, but it would take more work. This is sort of the balancng I think needs to be done. How is the lawful owner harmed by this type of magazine limit? So far the response as I understand it is 'because'.


Here's the Steyn piece I refer;


Actually, no, the 2nd is not such a limited right, otherwise it wouldn't be listed right
after the First, of course in 1934, every right was up for grabs, otherwise the Federal Communications Act, would have been barred by' 'Congress shall not abridge'

Captain Hate

NBC doing its damnedest to create controversy about something Romney said about the security of the Olympics, the difficulty of which isn't exactly a well kept secret.


--So far the response as I understand it is 'because'.--

No, my response was if it is an effective magazine for mayhem it is equally effective for self defense or for militia type use against foreign or domestic usurpers.


Who will rid me of this fool?

O’REILLY: Then of course that’s true. But it also makes sense for Congress to pass a new law that requires the sale of all heavy weapons to be reported to the FBI. In this age of terrorism, that law is badly needed.

Joining us now from Washington, Congressman Jason Chaffetz who disagrees. Where am I going wrong here, Congressman?

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R) UTAH: Bill, giving the FBI a master list of everybody who owns weapons in this country is not the right direction.

O’REILLY: Now do you think you just categorize what I said accurately everybody who owns weapons. That’s not what I said and you know it?

I said, heavy weapons, all right. Mortars, howitzer’s machine guns. In this age of terrorism, if you do a flight school, the FBI is alerted. But you can buy a machine gun and the FBI doesn’t know. And you think that’s responsible?

CHAFFETZ: No that — well, first of all, I don’t think that’s absolutely not true. If you buy a fully automatic weapon, you have to go get a tax certificate from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in order to do that. You have to pass a fingerprint background check.

O’REILLY: Have you ever been to a gun show, Congressman? Have you ever been in a gun show?

CHAFFETZ: Yes, I have.

O’REILLY: You know, you can buy any weapon you want there and there’s no reporting anyway; you can walk right out there.

[ ... ]

O’REILLY: You can buy an AK-47 in this country and no federal agency will know you by it. And as the guy in Colorado proved, you can buy a mass amount of ammunition on the net, ok, and nobody is reported.

Seriously, how does this idiot still have a show on Fox? Does he sometimes say things that make sense?


According to Greta's blog, she is off to London to meet up with Romney - in time to tag along to Israel where she will interview him, and then along with him to Poland. Gotta give Greta credit, she is a real go-getter.


Narc-- sorry, SCOTUS in issuing Heller, the broadest 2nd Amendment decision ever, plainly ruled that it is a 'limited' right. I'll go with that; the closest to absolute right is of course the 1st Amendment, and as you point out, even that is subject to limited time and place regulation.


Thanks for the Brennan link, TK.


So far the response as I understand it is 'because'.

The responses as I understand them seem to be more along the line of "fuck you, you fascist, gun-grabbing weasel, for trying to use a tragedy as a pretense to violate the Constitutional rights of millions of Americans."

Captain Hate

In this age of terrorism, if you do a flight school, the FBI is alerted.

Brilliant example for O'Dumbass to use after it was revealed how some illegals had been enrolled at a flight school.


AliceH--limiting commercially available magazine size would force a mass killer to stop and use a new loaded weapon or reload the first with the spent magazine. That interruption could allow the people being shot at, and or cops, to overpower the shooter and end the mass murder. A inventive mass killer could circumvent the commercial ban by fabricating a large custom magazine, but it would take more work.

Someone hellbent to be a mass murderer isn't going to be stopped because of magazine size. It is preposterous to even advance such an argument. Grenades, Molotov cocktails, homemade pipe bombs, truckloads of fertilizer, IEDs, etc.


Cannot stand Piers Morgan, so I was a bit surprised to see this at Mediaite (a recap of a CNN clip):

Baldwin asked Morgan for his thought on Romney saying that he found London’s lack of security preparation for the Olympics “disconcerting.” Morgan said he thought Romney was correct.

“It’s no secret over here that for the last three weeks the security around the Olympics has been a shambles,” said Morgan. “The outside firm they got in to run it has been all over the place – they didn’t have enough people and the army had to be drafted in. So, Mitt Romney was only saying exactly what has been happening.”

“He’s run an Olympics, so I thought he was perfectly entitled to be critical,” Morgan continued. He said that the English press jumped on him because they wanted Romney to “talk us up a bit,” but the substance of Romney’s critique was on point.

“I thought it was a bit of a fuss about nothing,” said Morgan. “He was just speaking the truth which can sometimes be rather unpalatable.”


If the USN, USMC, AUSA, USAF, USCG,FBI, Natl Guards, State Police all fail to repell a foreign usurper, a citizen's militia will fail as well. The 10th Amendment sovereign people right is a strong one I personally cherish, and if the Fed Gov't ever became tyrannically oppressive, a well armed citizenry may be needed against domestic usurpers. But that is a 'what if' that has to be balanced against the existential threat of the madman mass murdering with commercially available weaponry.


NK, I don't mean to pick on you, but you seem to think that it was up to the Supreme Court to "confirm" that the 2nd Amendment involves an individual right, as if it didn't before Heller. Do you think that this confirmation, if it had gone the other way, would mean that the right to keep and bear arms isn't an individual right?


Jerry Willis on FOX News reporting that "Dianne Feinstein is proposing National standards for hen houses."


If one reads the Webster report, and I recommend it probably only makes sense after
a sufficient quantity of adult beverages, there emerges a certain self satisfaction, about having filed all the TPS reports, while
the virus (in this case Awlaki's contacts with Hasan) remain unaddressed.


Sara-- your first sentence is rebutted by the Holmes madness. IF accurate, media reports claim he stopped firing and killing people when his rifle magazine jammed short of 100 rounds. So his mag limit -- from a jam -- stopped the carnage and the killing that night. Your second sentence is a strawman argument.


Just for fun lets change roles for a second. You say:

Signs that look like omens, folks.

Then I reply:



Krauthammer really gets on my nerves. I've lost alot of respect for both him and Steyn during this election cycle.




Sorry NK, you and I will never see eye to eye on self-defense. You have made it clear that you think individuals should not try to defend themselves but wait for your sainted cops to rescue them. Since I prefer to trust to myself and those I know will protect me and not rely on the gov't goons, I find all your arguments to be of the straw variety.

Using the Colorado massacre as an excuse to change the laws is a perfect example of how bad law is made.


As a California resident, I really wish our representatives cared more about me than about the silly goose or the crazy chicken.


Ex-- I don't feel picked on at all. Heller answered for the FIRST TIME whether the 2nd Amendment an individual right as opposed to a collective State Militia right. It was an open question up until Heller; Justice Scalia taught us that the Militia clause is subordinated into the no abridgement clause. What is still left open, because Heller involved DC and NOT a State is the Incorporation Doctrine. Is the individual right incorporated as a protection against State gun control laws through the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment?


If I were a Romney advisor I would issue a statement reminding folks that 12 Israeli athletes were murdered by terrorist at the Olympic Village. Highlight both the extreme seriousness this needs to be given, and of course raising his profile with Jewish voters.

Cameron better hope nothing happens now. Otherwise he will get clobbered, and folks will remember that Mitt told him so in advance.


Sara-- atleast you admit your mind is closed on the subject. And that's fine; that's your right, but it doesn't persuade anyone thinking about mass murder and what response, if any, is appropriate.


Dont think terrorists would not love to repeat the act, and include Americans in the carnage.


One can only roll their eyes and stifle a gag. Tomorrow, Romney will be in Israel and Obama?

Mark Knoller ‏@markknoller
Tomorrow at the WH: Pres Obama signs the US-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act. It expands US military assistance to Israel


JiB-- as usual you're right that Romney has alot more right to talk about Olympic security and preparations than either of those muppets Boris Johnson or Cameron. Romney carried off a safe Olympics 5 months after 9/11-- an amazing feat. And as for those Muppets in the UK, google Muslim steals torch-- last week a muslim punk ran into the street and stole the Olympic flame from the torch bearer. he was overpowered by cops/military escorts for the torch bearer. I have bad feelings about Londonstan during the next 3 weeks. All that said-- mildly questioning London 2012 was impolitic from Romeny's POV. He was right to walk back --quickly-- this morning.


Plus, GMax, FLOTUS is also there Moving her Big Behind and flouncing about in her most stylish outfits (not too stylish, of course, it being campaign season) - even with S.S. protection, the Brits sure don't want an "event" during her visit.


--But that is a 'what if' that has to be balanced against the existential threat of the madman mass murdering with commercially available weaponry.--

Well, at least one report said he was not in fact using the 100 round magazine so, since I am unaware of anyone else committing mass murder with a 100 round magazine but I am aware of a militia defeating an oppressive government on our shores seems to me the 'what if' shoe is most probably on your foot not mine.


Oh, and Knoller adds on Twitter that Obama is giving a press photo op tomorrow when he signs the fake very important Israel Enhanced Security Act.

Jane - talk is cheap!


That webcam is the coolest thing!


I didn't recognize one person in that ad. I wonder if Caro did.


Heller answered for the FIRST TIME whether the 2nd Amendment an individual right

Thanks for your response. I knew I fundamentally disagreed with you. I think the Founders and their contemporaneous writings did that, and that the "answer" you cite was proposed by a political group of presidential appointees who could just as easily have been 5-4 the other way, depending on modern day politics, some of whom care nothing for original intent and in fact despise it.


How many of the bullets passed through one person into another for example.And some folks that got injured had been in the next theater when bullets came through the wall and hit them.Does anyone take CBS serious anymore ??


And that's fine; that's your right, but it doesn't persuade anyone thinking about mass murder and what response, if any, is appropriate.

Limiting magazine size does not dissuade anyone thing about mass murder. As I said, if a person is hellbent on mass murder, there are lots and lots of choices out there even if 100 round mags are not available.


Chicago bans any magazines over 12 rounds. Chicago bans semi auto shotguns with more than 5 rounds capacity. Chicago bans semi auto rifles with pistol grips or collapsible stocks. No laser sites of any kind.

No internet sites will ship any firearms or ammo to Chicago residents.

To own a gun in Chicago you need a state firearms ID, a Chicago gun permit and you need to register each gun (and re-register every year). You can not take you gun out of your home (even to your garage). To transport gun to allowed area (from gun shop or to gun range) you need to disassemble gun and put in a case and not have gun immediately accessible. You need to have your firearms cards and permits with you when you have your guns.

Chicago murders 2012 YTD: 300
Chicago shootings 2012 YTD: 1000+

Those gun restrictions are paying off. I guess killings aren't as bad if they are spread of a week instead of an evening.

Danube of Thought

"would that interruption of the shooting save lives?"

I seriously doubt it--the time needed to replace a spent magazine is less than that of pauses that frequently occur in the course of firing. And I can't think of any lives that can be shown to have been lost because of a high-capacity magazine that would not have been lost otherwise.

In any event, if a determined mass killer feels he needs a high-capacity magazine and he is deprived of it, there are innumerable alternatives available to him.

Far, far more effective to seek to identify such people and restrict them.


"but I am aware of a militia defeating an oppressive government on our shores seems to me the 'what if' shoe is most probably on your foot not mine." George Washington was Commanding General of the Continental Army, not a militia, no? Beyond that, the rebellious colonists saw GeorgeIII and his parliament as a foreign power. his usurpations had broken the bonds of their being lawful subjects of the crown.
Rebellion today against the federal government would be by citizens who revoked the authority of the government to rule, because they withdraw their consent. A very different thing than 1776. Not sure where that shoe winds up.

Danube of Thought

"Just for fun lets change roles for a second."

I don't think you've been paying much attention.


Of course, the slayer, has no been struck with 'jailhouse amnesia' too bad he outlined
his plans, before he went through with it,


"Dianne Feinstein is proposing National standards for hen houses."

Chicken coops & Styrofoam cups...those Dems are on top of the important issues of our times.:(


Sara/DoT-- agreed that the mass murder (who by my definition is mad BTW) won't be stopped by any laws. And DoT is quite right the best deterence is information and database management to identify risks and restrict their access to weapons. But does limiting mag size mitigate the damage a mass murderer can do if he uses a semi-automatic rifle?


" But does limiting mag size mitigate the damage a mass murderer can do if he uses a semi-automatic rifle? "

Groundhog day.


Ex-- Marbury v Madison is good law, the SCOTUS is the final arbiter of the Constitution and statutes, until it's amended by the People or statutes by Congress.


What size magazine was Maj. Hassan using? He killed more people than were killed in Aurora.


Since this seems to be the active thread...

Someone on the other thread said, "I'm no geneticist, but wouldn't the gay gene have been removed via natural selection?"

In one of Richard Dawkin's books he suggests the following as a possible genetic explanation for homosexuality via Natural Selection.

He starts (as is his wont) from his standard position, which is that the driver of evolution is the smallest unit that can reproduce and send copies of itself into the future ie (genes). In simple terms, he believes that us (our bodies) are actually taxi-cabs that have been constructed by our genes in order to carry our genes into the future).

He suggests that if in a given human lineage a gene for large female breasts or other overtly feminine characteristics enhances that gene's reproductive chances at being pushed into the future when it appears as big breasts in a female body, then via Natural Selection it would succeed and be reproduced. He suggests that regardless of the body type it appears in, male or female, it would result in feminine traits (perhaps like Barney Frank's repulsive man-boobs, etc.

Dawkin's point is that the gene has no idea whether it is going to wind up in a male or a female body, but if it achieves enough reproductive success when it appears in the female body to be positively selected and passed on to the future, (in competition with some other female genes in other humans that it is competing against) it will be successfully selected and passed on. And when it appears in a male body as a feminizing sort of homosexual trait, (which will probably not reproduce) that overall is not enough of a Natural Selection deterrent to stop the feminizing gene from continuing to thrive due to it's reproductive advantage when it appears in the female.

Dawkin's then runs the reproductive math in the same way as geneticists run the math to explain the strategy of why a colony of bee's (sexless drones and worker's etc) give their lives for the colony with zero possibility of their own personal genes ever being passed on into the future, but their cousin hive genes being passed on as a result of their efforts. The overall math explains why the strategy, which looks nutty from an individual insect viewpoint, works when you consider the strategy of the gene to push copies of itself into the future.

Don't know if it is true but that at least is a possible explanation for why in some instances Natural Selection might select for and not delete a gene that would seem to promote homosexuality. If this view is true, it is not hard to then understand why very often among Lesbians you often see very masculine traits (butch) and why in Homosexuals you frequently see the man boobs and other Feminine sort of traits associated with the Gay stereotype.


Let the record show that I was almost an island in a sea of dispair, and it was mostly lead by you. DOOM rang out at least daily. When I pointed out the same things you now point out as if they are revelations, you dismissed them out of hand.

Sir I have been paying attention, longer and way better than you. QED


jpt-- why the sarcasm? it took a while for people to understand that the 2nd Amendment is a limited individual right ( and whether it's an individual right barring State laws is being litigated now)subject to some regulation. Now that's established, isn't it necessary to consider if regulation would save lives in the future? gather and sort information, and make reasoned judgments? No? we all believe what we believe and that's that. OK


--George Washington was Commanding General of the Continental Army, not a militia, no?--

The battles of Lexington and Concord were fought entirely by militias and throughout the war militias continued to participte in battles. Moreover individual states had the responsibility of funding and arming individual units within the army [and some units and individuals armed themselves with their own weapons] so the whole thing functioned essentially as state militias united under a national leadership.


"But does limiting mag size mitigate the damage a mass murderer can do if he uses a semi-automatic rifle?"

Not if he owns more that one "limited" mag.



sheesh I am going to become an accomplished typist any day now how long has it been since 8th grade typing class? LOL


Prior thread just featured at HotAir.

Why didn’t women try to shield men in that Aurora movie theater?

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