Checking The Fact Checkers

Truth, put your boots on! The WaPo "fact-checkers", led by Ezra Klein, Dylan Matthews and Glenn Kesler, with Usain Bolt handling the anchor leg, are racing to create a fog bank around Paul Ryan's speech. [MORE: James Downie of the WaPo joins in.]

Let's cut to Dylan Mathews, posting at Ezra Klein's blog:

FALSE

A GM plant in Ryan’s district shut down on Obama’s watch – From Ryan’s speech:

My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.”  That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year.  It is locked up and empty to this day.

The plant shut down in June 2008, when George W. Bush is president. Ryan says it had not yet shut down Obama was elected, that Janesville was “about to” lose the factory at the time of the election. This is false, as Ryan knew in 2008 when he issued a statement bemoaning the plant’s closing.

Before we address the errors and omission in Matthews' analysis, let's note some trouble in Paradise - Glenn Kessler rates this as merely "misleading", and counters with different information:

In his acceptance speech, GOP Vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan appeared to suggest that President Obama was responsible for the closing of a GM plant in Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wisc.

That’s not true. The plant was closed in December, 2008, before Obama was sworn in. But look how Ryan came close to the line in his speech:

“Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.”

Obama gave his speech in February, 2008, and he did say those words. But Ryan’s phrasing, referring to the fact the plant did not last another year, certainly suggests it closed in 2009, when Obama was president.

Getting closer! Here in Realityville, the plant closing was announced in June 2008; the last SUVs rolled off the line in December 2008, while Bush was a lame duck, and the plant was finally idled (to stand-by status) in 2009:

Green was one of 1,200 employees let go when GM ended SUV production at the southern Wisconsin plant.

...

About 50 workers will remain at the Janesville plant to complete an order of small- to medium-duty trucks for Isuzu Motors Ltd. They’re scheduled to finish by May or June, and then the plant will close down for good, GM spokesman Christopher Lee said.

Lest you wonder, GM does not close a plant by way of aerial bombardment. The plant is mothballed and wishful thinkers contined to hope (as of Sept 2011, anyway) that GM would re-open it.

So, what did Ryan actually say? He claimed, and Kessler confirms [or see Captain Ed for more], that Obama promised in Feb 2008 that a sympathetic government could save the plant. As of this writing, that promise has not been kept, even though the Obama-led goverment became the majority owner of GM after Obama's ascension in January 2009.

Presumably the economics did not work out, and the recovery has surely been weaker than expected (which was Ryan's point.) Still, nothing Ryan said is false - Obama promised to save a plant that had been in trouble for years, had the power to do so after his election, yet didn't.

Dylan Matthews didn't even mange to get the timeline right. Glenn Kessler almost nailed the timing (the bulk of the jobs were gone by Dec 2008) but doesn't seem to grasp that closed plants can be re-opened. That is some fine job being done among the self-styled "reality-based" community.

MORE: James Downie of the WaPo checks in:

Yesterday, at an ABC News panel, Mitt Romney pollster Neil Newhouse said, “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers.” Wednesday’s speech from Paul Ryan certainly took that disdain for truth to heart, as his address was filled with falsehoods from start to finish.

Let’s start with the chronologically impossible. Ryan spoke about the GM plant in his hometown of Janesville:

...

Set aside the fact that Paul Ryan, in a fit of anti-Randianism, asked for government funds to save the plant. Set aside that he voted for the big-government auto bailout. Ryan also conveniently forgot to mention that GM announced the closure of the plant in early June 2008. In fact, Ryan and then-Wisconsin Sens. Russ Feingold (D) and Herb Kohl (D) sent a letter that month to GM CEO Rick Wagoner asking him to reconsider. This was not just before Barack Obama was inaugurated or even elected; it was the same day he won his own party’s nomination. There was no way Obama could have saved that auto plant without also discovering time travel.

Well, there is no way James Downie can do fact-checking until he discovers Google; the plant was not finally and fully closed until 2009 and could have been re-opened at least until September 2011.

STILL MORE: Jon Cohn of TNR leads with the Janesville plant as one of Ryan's five "misrepresentations" in "the most dishonest convention speech ever" (with a question mark.) Obviously Ryan struck some nerves.

BRING BACK THE JOURNOLIST: I deplore this lack of coordination among the partisan "fact-checkers" of the left. Let's go back to Dylan Matthews:

Wonkblog went about sorting the true from the misleading and the downright false.

TRUE

Obama cut Medicare - Ryan blasted the cuts to Medicare reimbursements and Medicare advantage included in the Affordable Care Act. “They just took it all away from Medicare,” Ryan declared. “Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama.” That much is correct – the Affordable Care Act contained over $700 billion in cuts to Medicare reimbursement rates and Medicare advantage. The Obama administration insists the cuts will not hurt quality and are necessary to control costs, while the Romney-Ryan campaign disputes this, but the underlying claim is correct.

Well, sure, but then what do we make of Joan Walsh of Salon?

Paul Ryan gave a feisty anti-Obama speech that will have fact-checkers working for days. His most brazen lie accused President Obama of “raiding” Medicare by taking the exact same $716 billion that Ryan and the House GOP notoriously voted to slash. It was stunning.

I guess not everyone is stunned by the truth. Let's go to Paul Ryan's stunning bit on Medicare:

The president has declared that the debate over government-controlled health care is over.  That will come as news to the millions of Americans who will elect Mitt Romney so we can repeal Obamacare. 

And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly.  

You see, even with all the hidden taxes to pay for the health care takeover, even with new taxes on nearly a million small businesses, the planners in Washington still didn’t have enough money.  They needed more.  They needed hundreds of billions more.  So, they just took it all away from Medicare.  Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama.  An obligation we have to our parents and grandparents is being sacrificed, all to pay for a new entitlement we didn’t even ask for.  The greatest threat to Medicare is Obamacare, and we’re going to stop it.  

In Congress, when they take out the heavy books and wall charts about Medicare, my thoughts go back to a house on Garfield Street in Janesville.  My wonderful grandma, Janet, had Alzheimer’s and moved in with Mom and me.  Though she felt lost at times, we did all the little things that made her feel loved.  

We had help from Medicare, and it was there, just like it’s there for my Mom today.  Medicare is a promise, and we will honor it.  A Romney-Ryan administration will protect and strengthen Medicare, for my Mom’s generation, for my generation, and for my kids and yours.

So our opponents can consider themselves on notice.  In this election, on this issue, the usual posturing on the Left isn’t going to work.  Mitt Romney and I know the difference between protecting a program, and raiding it.  Ladies and gentlemen, our nation needs this debate.  We want this debate.  We will win this debate.

I think that taking money out of Medicare to reduce the projected growth in our national debt is different from taking money out of Medicare to fund yet another entitlement intended to buy votes for the Democrats and insure Obama's legacy. That, at least, is the stunning debate Paul Ryan is prepared to engage.

Comments

[narciso]

Dylan Matthews, the one with the epistemology
of 'You Didn't Build that' comedy gold.

[rse]

I just commented on the other thread that uses of terms like "brazen" to describe Ryan's speech demonstrate how damning it was.

And I just doublechecked my notes to make sure I could prove how devastating his NV remarks were.

Bingo. And it also dovetails to the Windy City school wars of late 80s where Steve Diamond always assumed Ayers and bo met if they had not met even earlier.

[Gus]

Nothing Ryan said is even remotely misleading.
Only if your lips are firmly attached to Obama's half white little member, could you possibly come to the conclusions that Kessler came to.
Obama SAID WHAT HE SAID in Janesville. And the plant is closed. As is the Solyndra plant. If you are a moron or a lying LIBTARD, you may see your job as protecting OBAMA. I am neither. Ryans point, was that Obama has made promises he cannot, nor does he have any intention of keeping.

[henry]

Didn't GM keep a plant in Oiho (with more electoral votes than WI) instead of Janesville? It was played that way in the Milwaukee press.

Obama picking winners to keep the Gov in GovMo and the Once in the White House. Not that one old GM plant made more sense than another, heck, all the plants were struggling (bankruptcy is funny that way).

[Danube of Thought]

A worthy byproduct of this campaign has been the fact that the term "fact-checker" has become risible.

Kessler can yammer all he wants about Obama's "grammatical error" and "context." All we have to do is play the tape, beginning to end. Over and over.

[NK]

TomM say: "I think that taking money out of Medicare to reduce the projected growth in our national debt is different from taking money out of Medicare to fund yet another entitlement intended to buy votes for the Democrats and insure Obama's legacy. That, at least, is the stunning debate Paul Ryan is prepared to engage." And it's a debate Ryan will win with 'persuadable' voters. Why?-- under Obamacare-- It's ALL BORROWED money to pay for Medicaid expansion. So if you're borrowing it for Medicaid, you can't borrow it for Medicare. It's simple arithmatic -- Ryan will teach ALOT of simple arithmatic to persuadable voters. He'll win that debate-- because the only comeback Bam has is -- 'WE'LL BORROW MORE!!!" Goodbye Bam.

[Thomas Collins]

It looks as if the portion of the Obama/MSM campaign devoted to the economy has come down to this:

(i) You didn't build that business.

(ii) Obama didn't close down that business.

Quite a comedown from hope and change and the oceans receding.

[hit and run]

They're "Factiness Checkers"

[NJ Jan]

Below is a video of an abc news interview of Mia Love. It is surprisingly respectful.

http://once.unicornmedia.com/now/od/auto/98330877-5095-4ac9-9a8c-7cdcd3944274/15a750c8-e7be-4371-b5c3-dd911c0d8bb0/politics-17108975/content.once?UMADPARAMcsid=nws_smartphone_vididx&UMADPARAMcaid=news-17108975

[Janet]

Sultan Knish has another good post - A Party of Trolls A bit -

"It's hard to know what the Democratic Party stands for anymore. All we know is that it is against racism. Never before has an entire election been run around a single negative issue that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual challenges facing the country."

and

"Race is a distraction, but it's more than that. A false argument is like a mask. You can put it on, but after a while you can't take it off. The more time that the left spends immersed in the grammar of racial grievance, the less able it is to speak any other language. The Democrats aren't just cynical, they are also becoming illiterate and unable to articulate ideas that don't revolve around a great split between races, genders or two groups, one oppressed and one oppressing."

[NK]

NJ Jan-- the legacy media will never overtly attack a black conservative like Love, they'll freeze her out as best they can, but when they do a profile, they won't overtly attack her. They'll wait for a scandal and then pounce like they do on all conservatives.

[Porchlight]

I know this has been posted, but NBC has still not "curated" Gov. Susana Martinez's speech from last night:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/29/13554819-video-wednesday-nights-rnc-speeches?lite

[Danube of Thought]

Unexpected:

NEW YORK -- The number of people filing for their first week of unemployment benefits was unchanged last week, following three straight weeks of increases, the government said Thursday. The Labor Department said 374,000 people filed first-time jobless claims in the week ended Aug. 25. That was slightly more than the forecasts of economists surveyed by Briefing.com.

[Sue]

My absolute favorite line from Paul Ryan last night was: "President Obama is the kind of politician who puts promises on the record, and then calls that the record."

Fact check that, MFM!

[Melinda Romanoff]

DoT-

The 99 weekers are falling off of the unadjusted continuing benes list at a fairly good clip. The undercount at the BLS is going to get harder and harder to disguise.

[BB Key]

My favorite statement about fact checking:

An attempt by the mainstream media to reclaim the narrative

Can't remeber where I read it ,probably in the comments at JOM :)

[NK]

MelR-- I referenced earlier the pressure on BLS-- I guess they will assume those 99 week people have gone on long-term disability-- or something. The BLS reports will have the mother of all readjustments that first Friday --IN DECEMBER.

[NJ Jan]

NK,
I agree but thought that this video showed her to great advantage and is good to circulate. I posted on my facebook page and people who are not politically well informed were surprised and reacted positively. That it is from a non "conservative " source helps the less aware voter to at least take a look. Its not right, but it is reality around here.

[dublindave]

Ryan gave an electrifying speech but the guy was knee deep in sophistry and so is a TM ( some dudes stayed on to clean up the plant in 2009-so technically...give me a f*** break).

Ryan's a rock star and should be at the top of the ticket with Christie the playing attack dog VP.

On tonights speech; I think Rombot will knock it out of the park, he's quite a brilliant orator.

If not; R Y A N / C H R I S T I E 2 0 1 6

[DebinNC]

AP:
France's unemployment rate is 10 percent, but 22.8 percent for those under 25. French employers are especially reluctant to hire young people because restrictive labor laws make it very hard for companies to lay off new employees. Under the plan, unveiled at a Cabinet meeting Wednesday, companies that hire people between 16 and 25 for at least a year will only have to pay 25 percent of their salary

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear this and similar targeted bribing from BOzo in Charlotte.

[NK]

Andy Pandy-- the link below is a re-post of Andy pandy's 2004 Kerry endorsement. it was shortly after that that our email chats became far less frequent -- ended by Christmas 2005. Andy Pandy's post is even more vomitous today. Whatever the cause, HIV drugs, gay marriage, Andy does not have the intellectual faculties -- at least on display-- he had 10-20 years ago.

[Melinda Romanoff]

NK-

The revision comes the first week of April, like clockwork. Last year's was a doozy.

[NK]

the link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1177886/posts

[centralcal]

I found this interesting and thought some of you might also. It is a promo on the upcoming 60 Minutes interview with the SEAL who wrote the book on the Bin Laden mission.

Who you see in the interview is not what he really looks like - all thanks to Hollywood magic makeup, etc. Or so, they claim!

[dublindave]

The editor of politifact is destroying Ryan's speech on MSNBC.

It's a pity that the speech will be remembered for it's fabrications and not it's power.

[Some guy]

"First it was Math and now Basic English? I was told that there wouldn't be anything hard in this election..."

-- Fact Check Barbie (with the matching tinfoil hat and pumps)

[jimmyk]

Who you see in the interview is not what he really looks like - all thanks to Hollywood magic makeup, etc.

Sorry, I've been a bit out of the loop, but I though his identity had been leaked to (and, of course, published by) the media?

[Captain Hate]

More "fact checking" which I initially posted on the prior thread http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/106730/ryan-most-dishonest-convention-speech-five-lies-gm-medicare-deficit-medicaid?utm_source=The+New+Republic&utm_campaign=c0743606fc-TNR_Daily_083012_AB&utm_medium=email

[NK]

The 'readjustment' regarding the Household Survey of labor participation I think starts in the very first monthly report after the election. Just a guess.

[Some guy]

The editor of politifact is destroying Ryan's speech on MSNBC.

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, is it still full of crap?

[GMAX]

MSNBC? So all 10 people will see it. I am very afraid. Lets roll the tape of what Obama said, at Janesville, and then the You didnt build that speech. Play as much context as you like I am good with clips or the whole miserable rancid thing.

Then it will be obvious that Obama is a pandering unserious mook and his minions and lickspittles are liars and water carriers for a pandering and unserious mook.

[Danube of Thought]

Per Althouse, Joan Walsh maintains that the following passage reveals Ryan's "Randian roots":

“When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life... I was on my own path, my own journey, an American journey where I could think for myself, decide for myself, define happiness for myself. That’s what we do in this country. That’s the American Dream. That’s freedom, and I’ll take it any day over the supervision and sanctimony of the central planners.”

If so, I guess we are all Randians now. At least, those of us who are not at the public trough.

[narciso]

fRom the earlier thread, they did mention thee Ryan and Rubio speeches, but in a McClatchy link, not highlighted from the main section,

In real news, Fekrazedeh, the nuclear weapons chief in 'that small country' Iran, is back in business according to Jay Solomon in the Journal.

[Thomas Collins]

GMAX, something tells me that Team Obama/MSM is not going to be focusing on this too long. Quibbling about timing of plant closings is not going to override the fact that Obumbles has been a failure at promoting policies that set a framework for economic growth. If Team Obama/MSM keeps harping on this, there are plenty of plants shuttered in 2010 and 2011 and 2012 that would provide a visual backdrop for a Romney/Ryan response ad. In fact, I wonder whether the way Ryan presented the Janesville situation set an intentional trap for Team Obama/MSM. The last thing Obumbles wants this campaign to be about is the timing of closing of shuttered plants (which I prefer to call "Solyndraed" plants).

[Extraneus]

I detect a whiff of panic coming from the direction of the MSM.

Remember when they had the day-after-election-day disease in 2004? What was is called again? Oh yeah...

PESTS

Their therapists ain't seen nothing yet.

[narciso]

You noticed how Kessler, so aggressively avoided the actual words of the speech,

[Janet]

Wow...look at this at Weasel Zippers -
Video: Al-Qaeda In Yemen Crucifies Alleged CIA “Spy”…

Will any Dems be asked about this? Isn't their jihadi prayer service this Friday? Could one lousy MFMer ask any Dems about their alliance with Islam? Arab Spring?....what Arab Spring?
Is this on any news over here?

[Thomas Collins]

No worries, narciso. As sublime intellects of the Share Our Pails in the Sandbox School of International Relations keep telling us, Khamenei and Putin and the Red Chinese princelings and the NoKos and Chavez and Castro's Commies will behave if only we make nice.

[Danube of Thought]

Looting in New Orleans; Bush at fault.

[Jim Ryan]

Ha! sixty-eight-year-old WF customer service rep fired for putting cardboard dime in laundromat machine when he was 18. Damn straight! Firing's too good for a contemptible miscreant like that!

I'm glad the new gummint banking regs are doin' their stuff! This guy was the kind of rat fink who destroyed our economy in 2008.

[Jim Ryan]

What Isaac has been doing: moving slowly. Absolutely horrible down there.

[Extraneus]

Meanwhile, no bank executives were indicted.

[DrJ]

JimR,

I posted that yesterday. It is fallout from Dodd-Frank.

[narciso]

Even more mendacious behavior;

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-08-30/paul-ryan-fact-check-republican-convention/57432326/1

[Jim Ryan]

Oops, DrJ. I gotta try to keep up.

[dublindave]

The editor of politifact is destroying Ryan's speech on MSNBC.

"If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, is it still full of crap?"

Lol....could be.

Time to add the NEW Republican War, "The Republican war on Facts" with the wars on women,science,Latinos,homosexuals,the media,regulation,planned parenthood,sesame street etc etc etc...

[NK]

Maybe DD really is a RR plant?

[narciso]

It's not new, it's just distributed hackery.

[Rick Ballard]

Wasn't Ryan's promise to put Leviathan on a 20%-GDP diet more important than this minutiae mining exercise? As much as I enjoy a spirited debate over whether sunrise was at 5:26 or 5:27, it's very difficult to determine the net impact at the end of the day.

I'm for letting the prog circle jerk continue without rebuttal until they weary. I'd rather make bets on whether the unemployment rate went up faster than gas prices in the past month (based upon next weeks employment report and the IEA national average). I'm going with gas prices at the moment but the betting window doesn't close until after BOzo's speech next week.

[belfastdave]

"Maybe DD really is a RR plant?"
That has been a persistent theory.

[James D.]

Jim Ryan, at the end of that absurd Wells Fargo article, I noticed this:

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. provides a waiver process employees can follow to show they're still fit to work at a bank despite a past criminal conviction, but it usually takes six months to a year to be approved.

How many hours of federal employee work time do you think are involved in the "six months to a year" waiver approval process to decide whether a guy who stuck a fake coin in a vending machine 49 years ago is an unacceptable threat to our financial system or not?

How much does that approval process cost the taxpayers?

And is it a bug or a feature of the process?

[Jim Ryan]

Anyone catch the bio of Colonel Sanders that Glen Beck read on the radio this morning. Good night nurse!

Yeah, Harland Sanders built that. Twice. From diddly squat and a bad childhood. What a story.

Meanwhile, the Dem convention will tell people with two cars and A/C that they need more government handouts or they can't achieve the American dream.

[Some guy]

Maybe DD really is a RR plant?

Maybe he's just a plant.

Phil O'Dendron?

[dublindave]

Apparently Romney will talk in detail about his Mormon faith in tonights speech -and about his role as a Mormon Bishop. If he becomes President, the LDS will be the most powerful religion in the United States of America and Romney will assure Evangelicals and Baptists tonight that their faith will not be in danger.

President Obama, a practicing Evangelical, has often talked about the love he has for his religon.

[Jim Ryan]

a bug or a feature

James, at this point, I think we're beyond that. It's just noise. It's like a zombie. He doesn't mean anything by it, but he just wants to eat your brain.

[Janet]

Here is a wonderful little ad by HumaneWatch.org

"The Humane Society of the United States, which is the wealthiest animal rights organization in the world, gives less than 1% of their funds to pet shelters. Instead, they work to pass laws that are against farmers and ranchers who feed you, me, and the world. I wish it was a joke, but sadly it's not."

...for just $19.00 a month you can join HSUS in our fight to hire more lawyers...

[Melinda Romanoff]

JammieWearingFool twits that the WaPo's factchecking Romney's speech a little early, as in now.

[Danube of Thought]

Federal Appeals Court strikes down Texas voter ID law.

[furious_a]

To be fair, the President promised "...that this *plant* will be here for another hundred years." -- he didn't explicitly promise that anyone would be working in it.

[Thomas Collins]

Dublindave, are you intravenously taking extra caffeinated Red Bull with BALCO supplied steroids? You're on a roll tweaking everybody and everything today!

[Extraneus]

Ace: We have this possibility now. And we have it because the media has overreached. They've made the last 12 hours non-stop Janesville partisan "fact-checking" coverage, and they themselves have set the stage for a beatdown of epic magnitude.

[Janet]

Federal Appeals Court strikes down Texas voter ID law.

The federal government has become the enemy of the people.

[dublindave]

Dublindave, are you intravenously taking extra caffeinated Red Bull with BALCO supplied steroids? You're on a roll tweaking everybody and everything today

It's my busy time.

[NK]

TC@12:52-- nah it's just cheap whiskey...

[NK]

"It's my busy time." absolute 14K Comedy Gold from DD...

[Dave (in MA)]

GMAX, where'd you hear confirmation on your theory about the phantom nut flingers being Ronulans?

[James D.]

Janet, "has become"?

I think it's been that way for a long time now.

[narciso]

And the talking point thanks to Ailes hiring one of Soros's drones referenced here'

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/30/the-saga-of-the-janesville-plant/

[rse]

Janet-the State against its People was the phrase used to describe the USSR.

And that is precisely where we are. We were to be turned into subjects and not even notice.

We have noticed and are not OK with it. Now we appear to have a ticket ready to make it an issue before the chains have been welded shut. Right now they are just padlocked and Ryan knows where the keys are kept. And Romney is listening to him on how to take them off.

DOT-my titles making reference to communitarianism are an understatement if anything. The group and its emotionally driven consensus was to have officially trumped the primacy of the individual.

[Gus]

I'm a little confused here. This GM PLANT in JANESVILLE,WISCONSIN is it OPEN or CLOSED.
I'm not clear on that. I mean with all of the MILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIONS of jobs saved OR created, it's hard to keep track.
Obama has been President for nearly 4 years. Do we have MORE or LESS people working??

anyone know???

[narciso]

My grandfather, somehow picked up on that, rse, without knowledge of BEST or other practices. but he had an Axemaker's mind;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/rusty-weiss/2012/08/30/chris-matthews-and-msnbc-now-claim-word-chicago-racist

[NK]

Janesville-- The Lesson? the Legacy media is so lousy now, that they don't understand that when Axelrod feeds them talking points, the points are pure BS. The Legacy Media are a disgrace on so many levels.

[Threadkiller]

http://datechguyblog.com/2012/08/29/oh-those-akin-poll-internals/

He's not quite dead...

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/29/video-mccaskill-runs-away-from-obama-at-light-speed/

Brave, brave Claire McCaskill...

[hrtshpdbox]

The plant kept making medium-duty trucks right through April '09:
http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/feb/19/gm-plant-last-day-finalized/

The bail-out didn't save them, nor did Obama's pronouncement at the site that it might "stay open a hundred years".

[Robert Bell]

Tom: Thanks for your post. You said:

"So, what did Ryan actually say? He claimed, and Kessler confirms [or see Captain Ed for more], that Obama promised in Feb 2008 that a sympathetic government could save the plant. "

Comparing this to Politifact:(http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/aug/29/paul-ryan/did-barack-obama-break-promise-keep-gm-plant-open/)

Obama apparently said:
"And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. "

That seems more like a statement of belief than a promise. Sort of like "I think this stock will go up 20% next year" versus a guaranteed income certificate with a 20% return. What do you think?

[Ranger]

President Obama, a practicing Evangelical, despite the fact that he has only been to church about 3 times since assuming office, has often talked about the love he has for his religon, especially how it clarifies that "this is a world where white mens' greed... runs a world in need."

There, fixed that for you.

[NK]

RobertBell@1:12-- splitting hairs and making angels dance on pinheads doesn't save Bam here. he went to Janesville at a time of great economic distress after 25 GOOD economic years (starting with Reagan), and said time for change -- go my GREEN way and you'll have 100 good years!! Bam's "statement of belief" as you put it was a bunch of Unicorn Farts then, and the last 4 years has proven it to be worse than phony wishful thinking because of the DEBT, and-business regulation and cronyism Bam has layered on US society. Bam/Biden will NEVER mention Janesville in the campaign -- book it.This was just an Axelrod/Media drive-by to try to smear Ryan.

[Janet]

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/08/kulaks-raising-their-banners-high/

Like Instapundit has been highlighting too -
A REMINDER FROM ANDREW BREITBART: “Once our voices are heard, then Democracy will happen.”

I've still got some "Don't Tread On Me" car magnets if anyone wants one. My treat. Just send an email with address & I'll mail you one - theshagamsatgmaildotcom.

[Gus]

Robert Bell. How is unemployment under Obama? Up or down?
Spending? Up or down?

If Obama promised to be a Marxist hack he'd probably fug that up too. He's a douchebag.

Btw. The Janesville Plant is still closed. Not just 20% of it.

[Jane - Get off the couch your country needs you!]

Here's today's podcast/

[Jim Ryan]

Robert Bell has corrected the record. Obama was only engaging in speculation and nothing more. No promises, no attempt to garner support for government intervention. It was just a thought. He was thinking out loud, that's all.

[Janet]

President Obama's inauguration prayer by Rev. Lowery -

"Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around -- (laughter) -- when yellow will be mellow -- (laughter) -- when the red man can get ahead, man -- (laughter) -- and when white will embrace what is right.
Let all those who do justice and love mercy say amen."

"a practicing Evangelical"....yeah right. Unless the left is changing the meaning of that word too...which is possible.

[matt]

Thank you, TM, for putting it so well. Scanning stocks on the Yahoo Finance page the same leftist propaganda is repeated.

I don't know if anyone noticed, bt Ryan also
stated that the mess has many authors on both sides, but now we must get on with fixing the damage. I really liked that.

I thought it was a brilliant, highly principled, factually accurate speech. The Left uses the tactics of a defense counsel every time they parse a Republican statement. Even factually accurate statements are challenged word by word, put in the word-o-matic and regurgitated as propaganda.

$715 Billion was removed from Medicare and the Dems want us to believe that services will magically remain the same. This is Magical Realism. Perhaps their prism is that of Garcia Marquez, but more likely it is through that of a pot smoking sophomore at Swarthmore.

[NK]

Janet-- that's not a real lowery quote-- is it?

[narciso]

Unfortunately, NK, it is,

[NK]

Matt-- agree with your 1:27 entirely.

[narciso]

Unperson Ogilvy reporting for. . .never mind;

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/whitewash-latino-speakers-ignored-on-nbc-politics-site/

[NK]

Lowery quote-- jeez this whole ObamaCrew douchebaggery was worse than I remembered it.

[Captain Hate]

Am I being too critical about this? I'm listening to Dennis Miller, whom I always enjoy, on the car radio and he's talking about last night's speakers and he mentions "That governor Hernandez". I roll my eyes, sigh, and say "No it's Martinez, you effing idiot" because he can hear me through the radio and values my feedback. Except my radio's obviously not functioning properly because he repeats it about 3 times before a listener calls up and corrects him, which he laughs off as no big whoop. My reaction is that he should've done his homework and some potential hispanic supporter might be put off be this. I'm firmly opposed to any Jeb Bush level pandering to any group but taking the time to having your facts correct is not pandering imo, and falls under the category of being professional.

[Danube of Thought]

"That seems more like a statement of belief than a promise. "

A distinction without a difference. The point is that his vision was dead wrong.

[Some guy]

That seems more like a statement of belief than a promise.

So the ONE was just thinking out loud?

In a campaign speech.

In Janesville Wisconsin.

In February of 2008, before the plant closed.

Alright then, are you saying that the government under the ONE has failed "to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition"?

Or are you saying he was completely insincere and duplicitous at the time he actually stated the above?

How does either make it better?

[NK]

"The point is that his vision was dead wrong." DoT-- and not only wrong, but Obama lied through his teeth about that 'vision' he left out the $5Trillion in debt, the Obamacare socialized medicene and individual mandate, the rampant cronyism. Obama is both a failure and a liar.

[Janet]

Yeah NK - Here is a link to the whole "prayer".

[narciso]

No, they are still lying,

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/barack-obama-thrice-mentioned-janesville-gm-plant

[Threadkiller]

Janet, you have mail.

[Captain Hate]

Janet-- that's not a real lowery quote-- is it?

I listened to the entire sub-literate doggerel live and was amazed that anybody took it as anything other than embarrassing. I figured the rest of the spectacle was just as disgusting and stopped watching.

[Sue]

Janet

I had forgotten that "prayer".

[Jim Eagle]

Sally Kohn is Fox's version of Rachel Maddow (in more ways than one). The only things missing when she gives her opinion is a red nose and clown shoes.

Wait until the Repuglians start their war on fake irishmen and their bathroom stills.

OT: SoCal may be rated No. 1 preseason but not at the finish. Not as long as Lane Kiffin is the head coach. He couldn't carry Nick Saban's jock strap much less win the BCS.

[Some guy]

The ONE: "As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

Yep, just thinking out loud not making any promises or nuthin.

[Janet]

from the post Everything Is Fake Now -

"The purveyors of fakeness have demonstrated their ability to transform the unreal into the real through manufactured consensus. By insisting that something unpopular was popular often enough, they made it popular. And by insisting that something popular is really unpopular, they did the opposite."

blah, blah, blah,....repeated lies become "common knowledge". Ryan lied in his speech, Bush lied us into Iraq, Plame was a secret agent, ....