Back To The Future On Taxes!

When is a tax increase not a tax increase? When we harken back to the Reagan era and introduce a 'bubble' bracket. The NY Times describes a plan that makes Democrats happy by rasing taxes on "the rich" (as measured by income, not wealth) and placates Republicans by leaving the top bracket untouched.

The simple dodge - phase out all the lower tax brakets as income rises above some threshold. That raises the effective tax rate (and the true marginal rate) without changing the top statutory rate.

But aides involved in the negotiations said they remained confident, in part because many of the ideas that could break the impasse were fleshed out during successive but fruitless deficit negotiations between the president and Mr. Boehner and between Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Representative Eric Cantor of Virginia, the House majority leader, and during the deliberations of the Congressional “supercommittee” on deficit reduction formed during the 2011 impasse over raising the nation’s borrowing limit. One Republican aide involved in the current talks said both sides believe a deal can be reached before Christmas.

The supercommittee drafted a proposal that would have eliminated tax brackets lower than 35 percent for affluent families, taxing the first dollar of taxable earnings at the highest tax bracket. In the late 1980s, the tax code included a similar rule, which “clawed back” savings from lower tax rates for some rich families.

Under the existing tax code, the first $17,400 of adjusted gross income for a couple filing jointly is taxed at 10 percent. Above that level, up to $70,700, income is taxed at 15 percent. Income between $70,701 and $142,700 is taxed at 25 percent. Gross incomes up to $217,450 are taxed at 28 percent. The next bracket, 33 percent, ends at $388,350 for couples. The top bracket hits adjusted gross incomes only above $388,350.

All taxpayers get the advantage of the lower tax rates below the top threshold, whether they earn $40,000 or $40 million.

Taking those tax brackets as Gospel, and relying on Excel and Keurig, I infer that if the effective average rate on income of $435,800 is 35%, the marginal rate from $388,350 to 435,600 must be 100%. Ouch. If all the phase-outs are spread out from $388,350 to $1,000,000 then the marginal rate over that bracket is 40%. In that scenario, everyone with income over $1 million will have an average rate of 35%; all income over $1 million will be taxes at a marginal rate of 35%.

Back in the Reagan era, we had a bubble bracket where the maximum statutory rate was 28% but the effetive marginal rate at a lower income level was 33%, due to the phase-out of deductions.

If that 5% spread guides current thinking, the transitional phase-outs will end at $1 million. How much revenue that raises I have no idea.

And the politics of this intermediate high bracket are ludicrous for the Republicans. Obama wants to raise the top marginal rate on everyone above some threshold to 39.6% (Let's round that to 40% for purposes of this mini-tirade). The Republican counter will be to raise the top marginal rate to 40% on incomes from $400K to $1 million and then cut the rate back to 35%? That may protect large small-business owners, but only by throwing the smaller successful ones overboard.That makes no sense even if small businesses really are imperiled by higher taxes, which is a dubious claim if we can rely on this Treasury study (summarized by the lefty CBPP).

I will add that this bubble-headed thinking inspired the subsequent tax reforms of the early 90's - once the Republicans accepted the top marginal bracket if 33%, refusing to extend that to incomes above the phase-out level became politically untenable. Read Bush's lips.

Comments

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--How much revenue that raises I have no idea.--

Probably closer to zero that to what they project.

[jorod]

get rid of the income tax.

[narciso]

They don't care, they operate at the sufferance of a Mexican oligarch, as for Obama, he doesn't
care either, he's just 'lipsynching' what Unger,
Bell, et al, taught him,

[maryrose]

TM:
Would this plan be considered a full fledged tax reform?

[Danube of Thought]

What's in it for me?

[bgates]

placates Republicans by leaving the top bracket untouched

Democrats will get to go to their supporters and say, "See! We are taxing the Evil Rich more. Yet the Republicans stubbornly protect the top rate imposed on the Evil Rich. Vote your vengeance upon them!"

Meanwhile, Republicans will be able to say, "Good news, fellas, the number that is printed in the tax booklets will remain unchanged. You'll just have to pay more of your money as if it had risen."

I think that's fair.

[narciso]

The Piranha bros, would certainly agree.

[LouP]

So, when do they get around to talking about spending cuts?

[narciso]

That's what the sequester is for.

[Old Lurker]

I hate them all.

And they are going to pretend they have addressed the problem, whatever they decide.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a double post:

They tinker around with this crap while the $100 trillion in unfunded SS, Medicare and Medicaid liability grows and grows, unabated and unmentioned.

[narciso]

Left unsaid, is the 'clawbacks' didn't work, just like the reduction of deductability of real estate interest, in an environment, of real estate portfolios, bye bye S&Ls

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Maybe one of the trolls can help me with this.
Barry says we're our brother's keeper, joining the long line of people who misunderstand that verse. Be that as it may, we're told that high taxes are what Christ would endorse as a form of charity and that helping out our fellow citizens through all these costly programs is the moral and ethical thing to do.
So, if paying taxes to help our brothers out is such a gigantic privilege according to all right thinking people, why do Dems insist on denying that great honor to so many?
Shouldn't the middle class, who after all are hardly starving, be honored to receive the privilege of doing more of the right thing?
Isn't it immoral and cruel to impose that great honor only on the top 1 or 2%?
Why does the left reserve the greatest honor, helping the poor, for those they claim to detest?

[narciso]

Well as it turns out, it is so good, that neither
Red Quaw, or 'Do You know who I am' Kerry, avail themselves of the opportunity to pay additional revenue, Buffett deliberately structures his taxes that way, and still complains, I know it's
a rhetorical question,

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I think we need to start a war against class warfare. I'm so sick of this "tax the rich" stuff - and I'm not rich. But even at my old age I still want to be.

Everyone on the cruise was talking about this Charlie Cooke piece. (Charlie was on the cruise and looks about 12.) I finally got around to reading it this morning. I think it accurately describes what we are coming to.

[rse]

Screwing small business owners is a feature, not a bug of the new Industrial Policy economy these guys advocate. If Cantor and Boehner do not have staffers reading everything coming out of the National Academy of Sciences, they should. It lays out the aspirations for transforming the economy into one driven by political players.

One consistent assumption about the private sector is that businesses exist to provide jobs and training for subsequent jobs.

These guys are as hostile to the idea that consumption and individual desires drives the economy as they are to differences of knowledge and skills and rationally weighing different possibilities before making a decision.

Ultimately these ideas track back to a misguided template of job sharing in the future and lots of leisure time. Reminds me of Uncle Karl and his fishing aspirations.

Too much public policy is being established by people who have never made payroll and think command and control is in fact possible with enough data.

Bumpy. Bumpy 2013.

[maryrose]

class warfare is an Obama tactic. I want all the government cuts up front. Let's do that first and see what additional revenue we need.Close the loopholes and lower the corporate tax rate.No sequester because Obama promised in the debates that would not happen. Remind Obama of his promise that he used to get re-elected.
TK: I am still waiting for really, accurate numbers on the Hispanic vote.

[Janet]

I don't think anyone should have to give one more penny to the money addict wasters in government.

They are like a family whining that they can't pay rent...you give them money.....they waste it on expensive toys & booze....then they whine that they don't have money for rent.

We are idiots to give them any more money.

[Old Lurker]

Janet you then have to close their ability to borrow and to print too.

[AliceH]

Jane: I read the Charlie Cooke piece twice, through tears both times. It captures my take on things exactly. Lot's of battles ahead, some of which the GOP will win, and many of which will be very important, but the war is lost - big government has won.

[Rob Crawford]

One consistent assumption about the private sector is that businesses exist to provide jobs and training for subsequent jobs.

*snort*

If I waited on my employer to offer training, my skills would be consistently 10 years behind the market.

[Janet]

Janet you then have to close their ability to borrow and to print too.

okay. let's do it.

[Janet]

A re-post from the last thread -
'Death tax' a death sentence to family farms, businesses?

Here's the clip from Greta last night featuring the Bennetts. My Naomi is down there this Thanksgiving.

[rse]

Americans will soon feel entitled to its fruits.

Here's where I think Cooke is wrong. Everyone seems to think Obamacare will bear fruits. I cannot think of anyone who will not end up disappointed as a consumer of healthcare. The dream is that everyone will get high quality healthcare. The reality is likely to quickly be that it becomes inaccessible unless you can pay cash. We are looking at an overwhelmed system in fairly short order.

Plus I can tell you from my time reading scheming blueprints that it is not the provision of health services for the sick that is desired. As they say repeatedly, that's too much like insurance.

The aspiration and it is part of what MO has been up to is to use it as the premise for telling all of us how to live. That physical, moral, and emotional Well-being is the proper responsibility of govt bureaucrats who need to intervene and make the decisions about how we ought to be living.

The Dems see these initiatives as totalizing schemes. The Reps have an opening if they recognize these aspirations and call a spade a spade. Romney tried to run out the clock without bringing what is at risk front and center. Reps have to do their homework and see how this all fits together and then remind voters what the vision adds up to.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

How cool Janet - and how uncool the subject matter is.

[Jim Eagle]

From Jane's 1:28pm link to Charlie Cooke's NR piece:

"There will be little virtue in America if it becomes a larger version of Britain, but with free speech and the right to bear arms."

The key here "right to bear arms". It makes us different than today's Britain but you can bet that it is on the Obama map of change. It is also our shield against total authoritarianism that the Obama regime would love to initiate. When he has to replace a Supreme, forget the abortion litmus test but focus on "the right to bear arms". That is what the Regime wants is a stacked SCOTUS that will reinterpret the 2nd Amendment to their own liking.

To me that is the "Great Game" Obama is chasing and without it we still have a chance of keeping the Republic as we know it for our kids and their kids.

[derwill]

--The reality is likely to quickly be that it becomes inaccessible unless you can pay cash. We are looking at an overwhelmed system in fairly short order.--

I agree with this. The law seems to be so badly written, that it is in effect unworkable. So what they have succeeded in doing is breaking the old system and replacing it with a system that can never be realistically implemented, even at its worst. I don't think it will take long at all for our health care system to deteriorate into an unmitigated disaster--worse than we can even imagine yet--especially if even a fraction of the drs. leave as have threatened to do. By 2016 the GOP should run on "reforming" our health care system, since by then it will probably be so bad everybody will hate it--even those who are getting it for "free," since getting something shitty for free is still getting something shitty.

[AliceH]

Everyone seems to think Obamacare will bear fruits. I cannot think of anyone who will not end up disappointed as a consumer of healthcare.

No, that's not it. It will be awful, all the bad parts will be blamed on Republicans even as most of the Dem energy will be focused on selling the public on it just needs some 'tweaking'.... More taxes, maybe shuffle with the exchanges, and in due order we'll be at Single payer. No doubt it will still be awful - maybe worse still. No problem! More tweaking! Perhaps a VAT will fund it better.

All they need to do is play up blame-the-evil-GOP even while biting off more and more for about 20 or 25 years, and there won't BE enough people of voting age around to remember how it used to be better.

[AliceH]

derwell - unless you can convince me that a majority of the electorate will suddenly have sufficient awareness, or even moderate interest, in grasping simple cause and effect, I don't see why evidence of disastrous effects of Obamacare is going to in fact be blamed on the disaster that is Obamacare.

The evidence exists now. Arguments and explanations are everywhere. THEY DO NOT CARE TO LISTEN. It's a) Bush's fault and b) Republican's fault. Vote Democrat! They CARE!

[Mark Folkestad]

Happy Recovery from Over-indulging Day! I just got back online after a week. I'll never catch up here. Moving down the hall on the same floor of the same building should not have resulted in such a long service outage/outrage. Thanks, Comcast!

[Janet]

I agree, AliceH. The evidence exists now. :(

[Jim Eagle]

BTW, since we ate out yesterday, I am roasting a young turkey with chestnut stuffing for dinner tonight. Mrs. JiB asked me why I was doing this the day after Thanksgiving. And my reply was that by eating out we don't have any leftovers for Turkey sandwiches or turkey hash or turkey soup, etc. So, we are having Thanksgiving redux this evening along with fresh cranberries from Wisconsin (top producing state not Mass), Sweet Potato mash and copious amounts of Pinot Noir.

[Rob Crawford]

The key here "right to bear arms". It makes us different than today's Britain but you can bet that it is on the Obama map of change. It is also our shield against total authoritarianism that the Obama regime would love to initiate.

You do realize that the constant drive to declare guns a "public health problem" is to leverage the powers given to the government by Obamacare and the like and (try) to use them for disarmament, right?

Chicago's "gun owner's tax" is just the beginning. They'll come out with some study, as mathematically sound as anything from The Lancet, saying that every firearm costs the country $100,000 in medical care costs, then demand gun owners repay or forfeit.

Enough people will prefer the promise of free stuff (or, really, labor stolen from other people) to liberty.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I believe there would probably be a civil war in the USA if they attempt to confiscate or outlaw guns in the next several decades.
It's possible they'll be able to boil the frog slowly but not for some time.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

WND's Joseph Farah: Vote Was Stolen; I Believe Obama Won The Election Through Fraud

http://youtu.be/GwPoTudyjUk

[JM Hanes]

Ignatz:

"I believe there would probably be a civil war in the USA if they attempt to confiscate or outlaw guns in the next several decades."

Who are you going to shoot?

[bio mom]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/23/photo-romneys-laid-back-thanksgiving/

The lefty commenters at this site are disgusting, small minded people. They cannot even win gracefully. And the Romneys do not use help inside their home. Ann does her own cooking.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Who are you going to shoot?

Posted by: JM Hanes | November 23, 2012 at 03:08 PM--

Who you got?

[Rob Crawford]

The lefty commenters at this site are disgusting, small minded people. They cannot even win gracefully.

Dave "Gaptoothed Freak" Letterman had a skit this week making fun of Romney. It's not a healthy sign when it's not enough to defeat a political opponent in an election, but must continue to abuse them.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Assuming Romney spent Thanksgiving in NH, I ate turkey a few miles from him.

[narciso]

But it is typical of them, 'Gap Toothed Moron' is actually richer then Romney, btw, And with the likes of Chambliss, who nreally needs to be slapped with a mackerel, for him to see sense.

[narciso]

Yes, recall that was part of Obama's gig, at the Joyce Foundation, that he also chaired with Ayers,

[matt]

There is a very unhealthy obsession on the Left that causes them to tear down their opponents even long after defeating them; Sarah Palin, Condi Rice, and now Romney.

It is the sick, twisted response of a dysfunctional human being.

I truly believe there will be a black swan sometime in the near future. The corrupt cesspool that is Washington requires a shock to the system. I believe that it will be an economic shock.

All of the issues that have been out there are still out there and have not been resolved.

Now with the fiscal cliff kabuki they will still be killing the geese that lay the golden eggs simply because we are tottering on the edge of recession anyway and higher taxes are going to dis-incentivize economic activity.Throw in the convolutions of Obamacare and the trend towards conservative economic activity in times of uncertainty, and the picture is bleak.

Logically, investors are going to be profit taking until year end because with the virtual certainty of significantly higher taxes next year they stand to get hammered financially.

[Chubby]

one thing that some libertarians like Ron Paul share with sharia is that they want to return to a gold standard. Sharia finance wants that as well.

[narciso]

Well there's a psychological term for it, but a totalitarian conception of politics, as Orwell so ably described is the practical application of this, matt, 'Unpersonning' and the 'two minute' hate, which has now expanded to at least
four years.

[narciso]

Even if you were a master alchemist, there's not enough gold in the world, Chubby,

[Chubby]

((And the Romneys do not use help inside their home.))

not even to clean and vacuum? keeping a large house like theirs polished and dusted must be a huge job.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Chubby,
Many less than libertarian, classical and supply side economists advocate a return to some form of gold standard in place of fiat money.

Sharia's insistence on hard money has nothing in common with classical economics advocacy of one.

[derwill]

I agree with Matt.

All of these post-mortems on the election are presuming that the world will be the same four years from now, whereas there are probably a half a dozen black swans looming on the horizon--from a collapse of the derivatives market, to multiple blue hell state bankruptcies, to Iran launching a nuke against Israel--that have the potential to fundamentally change the world in ways we can only begin to imagine. What are the odds we can safely avoid them all, esp. with a narcissistic, red diaper baby and economic illiterate in the White House?

[Chubby]

how many kinds of gold standards are there?

[narciso]

I know this was so 'unexpected' like rain falling down, 'heck of a job, Mark'

https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=abuaardvark

[Jim Eagle]

matt,

Spot on.

But who's going to report it when it happens? Fox? All by itself and the muddle will just whistle past the graveyard.

Even record gas prices didn't seem to switch one vote. The drop in real income, inflated food prices, record unemployment, record debt, the devalued dollar, none of it bothered the Obama voter so it seems.

I know this theory about low-information voters but it is something else. Its almost as if we have voters with low-emotive cognizance who should be mad as hell instead of lemmings running, smiling, toward the cliff.

If the last 4 years weren't enough by its individual components and cumulatively to sway the voter then I can't imagine what your Black Swan event will be and how it will be accepted. DOOM!

[Chubby]

I learned today that those vintage foil reflectors that went behind the old fashioned Christmas tree lights, are a very hot item, and very pricey, on ebay, etsy etc. They cannot be found anywhere else. I wish I'd known that when I was cleaning up my mom's stuff after she passed on. I got rid of a very large number of them.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Chubby,
Nathan Lewis at Forbes is the most clear proponent of a gold standard going IMO.
If you click on his name at the link it should take you to his archives where he should have quite a few more columns on the subject.

[daddy]

Uh Oh! .

100-vehicle wreck near Beaumont Texas

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I hope none of those absolutely, positively had to get there overnight.

[maryrose]

matt:
I believe you are correct. We have to sink a little lower for the uninformed voter to realize how bad off we really are. I am encouraged that somehow this HHealthcare law will be changed and its revenue put on the table in negotiations.I love how Sebelius just assumed all the states would happily set up exchanges. What did she think the Supreme Court lawsuit was about. If the Supremes had ruled against Bammycare, would he have been re=elected?

[narciso]

In the firm, 'the Social Network, there;s a dailogue bwtween rhe Vinklevoss's and this fellow, it;s hard to day, who comes off worse:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2012/11/23/larry-summers-its-time-to-tax-carbon-and-treats/

[jimmyk]

"We have to sink a little lower for the uninformed voter to realize how bad off we really are."

I look at Europe and S. America and see no evidence that when things get really bad, the masses wake up and see the light. Maybe the UK and Thatcher, but they are still left with the NHS and a massive welfare state. E. Europe doesn't count because they had communism forced on them. I know of no geat examples of democracies righting the ship once they've begun to list.

[sailor]

I agree with you, jimmyk.

[Jim Ryan]

Plus, we are information-age, welfare-state people, not farmers and mechanics. Severe pain will cause SHTF: panic, looting, and rioting, followed by the permanent cessation of trucking lines when truckers stay home to take care of their families, followed by power plant staff staying home to take care of their families. No food, lighting or HVAC.

Have a nice day.

[Skoot]

The debt ceiling is 16.394T. Debt clock today is 16.284T. The way Obama spends, that's about 3 weeks. He already got us downgraded, so screw him. Let him run the government for the next 4 years with what he's got. He wanted the job. heh.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I look at Europe and S. America and see no evidence that when things get really bad, the masses wake up and see the light.--

Chile?
Besides things haven't gotten really bad for the welfare state in Europe yet.
It's only the opening act.

[pagar]

Estate taxes on family farms and small businessed-- Nothing but legalized theft.
The entire aim of the Obama regime, IMO,
is to put family farms and small businesses out of business.

Here's how much Iowa farm land is selling for:

http://cd1077fm.com/Record-High-Paid-For-Iowa-Farmland/14629550

" Unidentified buyers, described as local farmers, paid $21,900 per acre for the 80 acre parcel near Sanborn in Sioux County. That topped the old record high of $20,000 per acre paid last year, also in Sioux County."

My oldest brother has started from nothing, worked day and night for 75 years to own a little bit of Iowa farm land that he and his 2 sons farm today. Both sons also work full time jobs just as my brother did for yrs. From what they have told me, they expect to lose so much to estate taxes that the sons do not expect to be able to continue to farm. Pure theft!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--From what they have told me, they expect to lose so much to estate taxes that the sons do not expect to be able to continue to farm.--

Kulakism with a human face.

[jimmyk]

geat=great

To clarify, Reagan and Thatcher seem to have been, with hindsight, just brief pauses in the capsizing process. We threw a few containers overboard, plugged a couple leaks, but soon we were taking on water again. We can try to get to the lifeboats, but where will we go?

I hope Iggy is right that the fact that we are armed is what will make us different.

[Extraneus]

JimmyK from the previous thread:

The FFs were well aware of the limits of democracy and the danger of the "47 percent" and did their best at least to put some obstacles on "the ignorance and stupidity of Man" attaining power. But it seems that there's something like the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics that comes into play over time.

When the Constitution was ratified in 1788, only white male property owners could vote, with some religious exceptions. In 1810, the last religious prerequisite for voting was eliminated. Property ownership and tax requirements were eliminated by 1850. In 1870, the 15th Amendment was passed, protecting the voting rights of adult male citizens of any race. In 1915, literacy tests were outlawed for federal elections. In 1920, the 19th Amendment was ratified, giving women the right to vote.

The 2nd Law analogy is an excellent one, and Jimmy also noted in another comment that 230 years is a good run for a nation or empire, but I think the pooch was screwed by 1850.

Imagine what kind of government - and country - we'd have if only property owners, or even taxpayers - of any race, sex or religion - could vote?

[Extraneus]

Btw, JimmyK has been on fire the past couple of days. (Not that he isn't always.)

[jimmyk]

Chile is an ok example, but it's hardly a free marketer's dream, more like Europe, though better than before. It's also a tiny country, like 10 million people.

[jimmyk]

Thanks, ext, and that's a good list. I might add the change in the way we elect senators. And other amendments like allowing the income tax.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

"Let him run the government for the next 4 years with what he's got. He wanted the job. heh."

He is doing exactly what he wants to do, the "heh" is on us.

"Imagine what kind of government - and country - we'd have if only property owners, or even taxpayers - of any race, sex or religion -could vote?"

Imagine what kind of government and country we would have if the founders ruled out dual citizens from being Commander in Chief.

[narciso]

Ah, Steyn still has it, what is it, I'm not sure anymore;

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/333928/failures-intelligence-mark-steyn

[matt]

You can't argue with a collapse. Once it happens it has a life of its own. Large sections of society; those same sections that are the 47%, will be devastated and want your stuff.

At that point the rule of law is in greatest jeopardy. So it's the rule of law or the rule of the lawless. That's one reason the more conservative side of our society is significantly more heavily armed, very frankly. The fear of lawlessness.

If Obama gets a redistribution of the Supreme Court the way he hopes, at that point the social compact is in its most dire jeopardy because they will throw out the Constitution without a care.

He won through incredibly detailed computer work; precinct by precinct stuff; an unimagineable amount of money; a press in the bag, and a little bit of cheating here and there. But he won by only 2.5%.

jimmyk is right in some respects, but we have always been exceptional. I hate to say it but some form of earning the right to vote may be necessary in a crisis. Pure democracy would be the path to dictatorship.

Today the oligarchy simply does not give a damn and will move to safe havens which will always exist with enough gold and commodities for exchange.

But you can't move land, and to a great extent natural resources.

I have faith in the heartland. Look at the blue on the map and it would be easy enough to quarantine the rot. Leftism is a cancer.Treat it as such and we are on the way to a middle path again.

Remember:

#1 - RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. We can find the money and people.

#5 - “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions." - If the Left isn't ridiculous, no one is.

#8 - “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.

#12- “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

Use their own tools against them. Hold to your core values. Pray for success but prepare for failure. Never, ever give up.

It's a long road and Jim Ryan has a point. But it's much more difficult to grab something tangible from someone if they have a Colt M 1911 or a shotgun in their hand.

[narciso]

Chile, introduced under Pinochet, a more Hayekian system, I recall I wrote a paper on it,but after he '82 downturn they introduced less monetarism and more demand side elements, they had the Christian Democrats Alwyn and co, and Lagos and Bachelet, which kept most of the elements of the current system, Pinera hasn't had much success in restoring what was lost,

Similarly with Argentina, they went from strict
monetarism to wild abandon, even under the Process, Alfonsin, really was much more irresponsible, leading to the Hyperinflation that Menem eventually suppressed for a time,

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"...if the founders ruled out dual citizens from being Commander in Chief."

Too bad they didn't. That would have prevented Chester Arthur from taking office.

A good way to have kept Obama out of office would have been to persuade 60 million or so voters not to vote for him. But why rely on the democratic process when the distortions of Leo Donofrio can help you reach your goal?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

There is a potential for dual allegiances causing a problem but what points to Barry's supposed subservience to Britain or Kenya being the problem?
The peril from Barry comes from ideas which are wholly separate from his allegiance to where his pappy was born.

It's his ideological allegiance to a 19th century German philosopher that is the problem.

[Extraneus]

Thanksgiving Celebrates Our 'Original Sin,' 'Views Virtually Identical To Nazis,' Journalism Prof Preaches

Forget all that turkey, stuffing and pumpkin pie, today should be a day of fasting and atonement for American “sin.” That’s according to Robert Jensen, a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin. Jensen, known for his hard-left politics, also calls Thanksgiving a “white-supremacist holiday.”

Jensen’s opinion piece “No Thanks for Thanksgiving,” appeared on the far-left, Soros-connected website Alternet on Thanksgiving eve. In it, he wrote how Native Americans suffered because of the “European invasion of the Americas.” He went on to compare the Founding Fathers to Nazi Germany. “How does a country deal with the fact that some of its most revered historical figures had certain moral values and political views virtually identical to Nazis?” he asked.

Just another member of the American majority.

[Janet]

I got a "shout out" at Instapundit! & an "Indeed". Hah!

[narciso]

Another interesting commonality, was back then in the 70s, the South American left, much like the SDS, really believed in the Marighela urban guerilla strategy, now you wonder, considering
every single time, they tried it, they were crushed from Brazil to Argentina, it would not seem optimal, but they define reality differently,

[Janet]

Okay, it was just an update...& I just passed on a bit of Federalist #62....but I'll take what I can get.

[MarkO]

Janet rocks.

[Extraneus]

Indeed!

[MarkO]

Let's go over the current cliff, not the one they are now working on. There will be no real cuts to "free stuff." It wins elections.

[narciso]

I couldn't agree more;

http://twitchy.com/2012/11/23/iowahawk-says-he-might-write-a-book-yes-please/

Having read Georgianna, the basis for the film, the Dutchess, one can see what inspired the likes of Federalist 62,

[Rick Ballard]

"Look at the blue on the map and it would be easy enough to quarantine the rot."

I would think you would want to drive as many locusts as possible into the Blue Hells prior to quarantine. Wisconsin aid recipients should receive packets explaining how much better off they would be by crossing the bridge to Illinois. Same for Pennsylvania (go north for better freebies), Virginia (the living is easy in DC) and Michigan (Chicago beats Detroit, hands down). Offering help with moving costs wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

"That would have prevented Chester Arthur from taking office."

This must mean that 4 years later you have finally found evidence that it was known, during Chester Arthur's campaign, that he was a dual citizen. Do you have such evidence?

Ig, nothing has to point to his subservience to another nation as being relative to how he governs. A son of an alcoholic is not allowed to drive if he doesn't have a licence, not if he has a risk of being a drunk driver.

[Janet]

Extraneus, That post sounds like the WaPo editorial that narciso pointed out.

"Could it be, as members of the Congressional Black Caucus are charging, that the signatories of the letter are targeting Ms. Rice because she is an African American woman? The signatories deny that, and we can’t know their hearts. What we do know is that more than 80 of the signatories are white males, and nearly half are from states of the former Confederacy...."

[Extraneus]

Speaking of Instapundit...

Man Escapes Death After Wife Tried To Suffocate Him By Motorboating His Face With Her 38DD Breasts

[Skoot]

I think the 2nd term is going to be an unmitigated disaster. Roberts effectively killed Obamacare with Medicaid section, and I still think it falls at the Supreme Ct the next time around with either the Liberty or Hobby Lobby cases.

After the election my 12 year old daughter said, "Total destruction is the key to success," and I think we're going to find out. Exciting times,"The sun'll come out tomorrow, bet your bottom..." Well, you know the rest TK :)

[narciso]

The problem is with Scott and Weatherford going all splunge on the exchanges, giving no clear signal, with the likes of Chambliss 'speaking truth to power' against Grover Norquist, forgetting who put him back in the Senate, we'll
make sure he knows, and 'things of that nature'

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

"A good way to have kept Obama out of office would have been to persuade 60 million or so voters not to vote for him."

Here is a group they could have worked on to get those votes:

http://today.yougov.com/news/2012/10/01/birthers-arent-going-anywhere-update

73% of Republicans?? 40% of all Americans???

Nah, who would want to woo them when the object is total vote count.

[Extraneus]

Those Southerners should be ashamed for criticizing a black woman, Janet.

No more Southern critics allowed! Only Northerners can criticize blacks in the 21st century!

Just one thing to remember. They already have the black vote. Just about every last one of them. They can't possibly do any better with the black vote than they did this month. Any further racist b.s. has to be crafted in a way to attract more white people than it repels. I don't see how dissing Southerners can accomplish this, but they should try their best. Surely that's what Martin Luther King would have advised.

[Extraneus]

Restaurant settles over 'carcass removal' listing

HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- A phone book company has settled a lawsuit over its placement of a Montana restaurant in the "Animal Carcass Removal" section of its yellow pages, a listing the restaurant owner says cost him customers and made him the butt of a Jay Leno joke.

The terms of the Nov. 16 deal between Dex Media Inc. and Big Sky Beverage Inc., the parent company of Bar 3 Bar-B-Q, were not disclosed. A tentative agreement proposed in September said a deal would include a payment to the restaurant owner.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"who would want to woo them when the object is total vote count."

Who says they weren't wooed?

[Extraneus]

NFL will review rule that resulted in Texans' TD

The NFL will consider changing the rule that kept officials from reviewing the long touchdown run Thursday in Houston's overtime win over Detroit.

Game officials were unable to review Justin Forsett's 81-yard score in the third quarter when Lions coach Jim Schwartz immediately threw the red challenge flag on a play that, in this case a touchdown, was automatically reviewable. SI.com reported that an NFL source said the rule likely will be overturned in the future.

The league official called the rule "too onerous," according to SI.com.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"you have finally found evidence that it was known, during Chester Arthur's campaign, that he was a dual citizen. Do you have such evidence?"

I have no evidence that it was not known, nor any reason to believe that it was not known. I have not seen it asserted by anyone other than Leo Donofrio that it was not known. I conclude that it was very likely known.

I know that dual citizenship at birth does not render one ineligible, and that from and after the age of nineteen Obama was not a dual citizen. So far as I am aware, Arthur was a dual citizen at the time of his election.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

You go girl! (Janet) Congrats on the Instalaunche - which it is, even if it is an update.

I gotta read the Federalist Papers again.

[narciso]

This is what I was referring to;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/23/Chambliss-Refusal-To-Abide-By-Anti-Tax-Pledge-Could-Be-Sign-Republicans-May-Cave-On-Tax-Hikes

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

The only way I have heard that rule described is "you can't benefit from a penalty" I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I don't see how it applies in this instance. How could they be said to benefit from it, if the officials review the play as prescribed and then, having ruled, assess the penalty?

[narciso]

Why couldn't they review the play, honestly what are they there for, plus when do they bench Suh,