A Note On The Gallup Gun Control Poll

Gallup has a new poll indicating that the common sense of the American people is not yet aligned with the common sense of President Obama:

To Stop Shootings, Americans Focus on Police, Mental Health

Democrats substantially more likely to see assault gun ban as effective

However, I want to flag the dismally worded question from Gallup which asked whether people thought a ban on "assault or semi-automatic guns" would be effective.

"Assault weapons" are generally considered to be rifles; scary-looking rifles with cosmetic enhancements such as flash suppressors and bayonet lugs that trouble Sen. Feinstein, really.

But "semi-automatic weapons" is a much broader category which includes semi-automatic handguns, i.e., most handguns sold in America today.

Did respondents understand they were endorsing a ban on semi-automatic handguns and calling for a return to The Great Equalizer? The design of the question surely steered people towards rifles in their answer, so I would resist interpreting this result to indicate broad support for a semi-automatic handgun ban.

For example, "Banning handguns" got 5% support in a Gallup poll after the Gabby Gifford shooting in Arizon, which involved a semi-automatic handgun.

And the text of the latest Gallup result does seem to conflate "assault weapons" and "semi-automatic weapons". For example:

The biggest differences between Democrats and Republicans are on the banning of assault weapons -- 61% of Democrats rate it as very effective vs. 26% of Republicans -- and spending more on mental health actions -- 67% of Democrats say it would be very effective vs. 35% of Republicans.

Huh? As best I can tell, there is no separate question about banning just "assault weapons". Yet that is how Gallup chose to describe their own question.

On the other hand, Chris Matthews wants to ban semi-automatics and seems to grasp that this includes handguns:

CHRIS MATTHEWS: It's not hopeless, though.  You talk about the Second Amendment.  Look, in 1934 we had Machine Gun Kelly and all the guys out in Chicago.  We had the whole Prohibition era encouraging a certain kind of crime; rum-running, etc.  Here's the question. Back then, Congress had the guts to outlaw automatic weapons, machine guns, basically they did.  Heavily regulated. Heavily regulated. Almost to the point you don't find them around.  Here's the question: why can't Congress do the same thing to semi-automatics? I know we've got millions of them, whatever.  Can't we start to regulate?  We don't have to regulate a shotgun or a regular pistol with a revolver or anything. But if you go into the semi-automatic level, why don't we say, that's like the automatic weapon.

I am not sure what Gallup thought they were asking or what respondents thought they were saying. Which is great - we are having a national debate in which most of the media and much of the public literally don't know what the words mean.

I know we all eagerly await the results of the Gallup poll on banning "high magazine clips". If Obama proposes it, I will support it, but I want to hear him say it first. On national television. With a teleprompter.

Comments

[NK]

High magazine?... hmmm....

[NK]

BTW... we are not having a "National debate", the Two Minute Hate has begun.

[Jane: Mock the Media]

High magazine?.

I here those are all over the place in Colorado based on the new law.

[NK]

BTW (take 2)-- obfuscation and deliberate misrepresentation of the facts by the Dems, Gallup et al, are all part of the Two Minute Hate.

[Rob Crawford]

Did respondents understand they were endorsing a ban on semi-automatic handguns and calling for a return to The Great Equalizer?

Revolvers are self-loaders, too.

[Jane: Mock the Media]

Here/Hear? Apparently I don't know the difference. Sheesh!

[NK]

Wiki says RobC is correct, the Colt Army Revolver "Great Equalizer" was a 'single action' revolver, no need to manually cock the hammer-- each pull of the trigger chambered the next round. Now about that 'fact based' "National Discussion".....

[Jane: Mock the Media]

TM,

Is your wife's charity doing anything for Sandy Hook victims. If so, can you provide a link? Thanks

[NK]

Before I go into Contract Language land just an editorial comment: When the Aurora massacre occurred I suggested at JOM that gun rights supporters consider restrictions on high capacity magazines for semi automatic rifles, which seemed to me to have have no value other than raising the bodycount for a mass murderer. The gun rights supporters at JOM were... ahem.. vigorous in rejecting my suggestion. At this point, I have no doubt that Tomm's "High Magazine" law will be passed and Bam and the Repubs will declare VICTORY--the victory of 'compromise' that's just the politics of the situation IMO. It will have nothing to do with facts or reason, and it will have no beneficial effect-- it will be just the politics of the narrative.

[NK]

Jane -- living about 8 miles from Sandy Hook Elementary, I see and hear many solicitations for "Sandy Hook Relief". What purpose supposedly is being served? I know I'm way too cynical about the 'nonprofit' industry, but honestly, the money will do .. what?.. exactly.

[Jane: Mock the Media]

WEll, let's see - can they all afford funerals? Do they need a new school? Did some of the adults leave children? Would a scholarship be appropriate? I can think of others.

[NK]

Jane -- Fair enough-- end of year giving time is upon us. I've given my bit to the Salvation Army, youth sports groups, plus my one leftwing beneficiary, so I'll check into AmeriCares in Stamford, they are a very reliable good works group, and see if they are providing services in Newtown. Based on the Sandy debacle, I will never ever give to any Red Cross organization-- they are the new United Way as far as I'm concerned.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

One man's definition of "assault

"A standard military rifle, capable of controlled, fully-automatic fire from the shoulder, with an effective range of at least 300 metres".

I know that as of forty years ago the authoritative Jane's All the World's Small Arms defined it precisely that way. I don't know what Jane's says today.

And while we're at it, a weapon that looks exactly like an AK 47 but is not capable of fully automatic fire is not an AK 47, any more than an AR 15 is an M 16. But for practical purposes these battles over terminology have been lost.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

A single-action revolver must be manually cocked before firing. A double- action may also be cocked, or it may be fired by a single pull of the trigger, which brings the hammer back and releases it all in one motion.

[NK]

I give up... I can't even get the gun facts right when I wiki them.. back to that fact based national discussion....

[NK]

I did lookup AmeriCares website, they send condolences but they are not soliciting for Newtown Ct. Their website still claims a 98% giving record, only 2% to admin costs-- they are a great institution to contribute to.

[Threadkiller]

Again, I post a video that should put revolvers into perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsLx5ISBXw4

What limit will they impose on Jerry Miculik? Will he no longer be allowed to shoot and reload at a rate of 240 rounds per minute?

[Captain Hate]

Per Tammy Bruce, 8,000 people per day have joined the NRA, since the school tragedy I guess.

[fdcol63]

We all need to be organizing ourselves into "militias" that will provide for our mutual defense against a despotic and tyrannical Federal government hell-bent on invalidating our 2nd Amendment rights.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

My 2:02 should have read "assault *weapon*"

[Threadkiller]

An off topic quote, with some bolding from me, a picture, a link that contains more info and a comment from me:

Yesterday, Sibley filed an Emergency Second Motion for Order to Release Privacy Act Protected Records. That motion presented photographic evidence to Judge Bates that someone has tampered with the evidence related to Obama’s putative birth in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. Sibley had subpoena from the National Archives the “Arrival Records” for August 1 through August 10, 1961, of all passengers arriving in Honolulu, Hawaii to see if records existed that Obama and his mother arrived in Hawaii during that time frame.

What NARA produced were two microfilm spools of the arrival records for July 28 through August 1, 1961 and August 8 through August 12, 1961. As detailed in the Emergency Motion, the original date on the box of “August 7” has been altered by “white-out” and a new date of “August 1” had been written on the box. Proof of that alteration comes from a photograph of the same box taken nine months earlier which reveals the date was originally “August 7”. Thus, indisputably the box has been tampered with – a criminal offense – to hide the fact that the microfilm for the August 2 through August 7, 1961 arrivals is now missing.

http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/12/national-archives-caught-altering-hawaii-records.html

I think there is something wrong with tampering but YMMV.

[GMax]

I asked 2nd Lt TMax about the M 4s his troops and he are issued. In semi automatic mode they will release a three round burst. You would use such a mode if you were under assault and seriously in danger of being overrun by a superior number. Otherwise, they would engage in single round for a single pull. He indicated absolutely no one in his platoon has an automatic weapon.

[Extraneus]

We don't have to regulate a shotgun or a regular pistol with a revolver or anything.

There are no pistols with revolvers. A pistol and a revolver are two different things. One uses the gases released by a fired round to chamber the next one. The other is a revolver, which - if's a double-action revolver - is functionally similar to a semi-automatic pistol: it fires the next round with another pull of the trigger.

[fdcol63]

TK, interesting. I think the altered date - instead of hiding the fact that the week of Aug. 2 - Aug. 7 is missing - actually PROVES that there has been tampering, because of the number sequence of 184-185.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Except for very rare semi auto handguns like the Auto Mag, revolvers are capable of firing much more powerful rounds than semi autos. If the gun grabbers were somehow successful in eliminating semi autos wouldn't we soon need to ban revolvers?

But moxieman informs us no liberal wants to ban guns so it probably doesn't matter.

[Peter]

TK, sounds like the Massachusetts DMV in 1970 covering up Teddy Kennedy's priors so he wouldn't face jail time if he pled to vehicular homicide. Of course, there was no internet in those days.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

The gun rights supporters at JOM were... ahem.. vigorous in rejecting my suggestion.

And correctly so. Observe that the Sandy Hook kid shot 26 people, all of them apparently many times. He had 30 round magazines. It follows therefore that he reloaded. Several times.

Eliminating high-capacity magazines, beyond actually not being possible, would be mere security theater.

[NK]

Re-loading interrupts firing the rifle does it not? thus it follows that emptying a 10 round magazine will require reloading twice before being able to fire 30 rounds-- If 30 round magazines were not lawfully available (Lanza used a lawfully owned and registered rifle) in a mass murder shooting, wouldn't those 2 interuptions give more opportunities for armed or unarmed bystanders to intervene and stop the massacare?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

That is an argument for only allowing single shots and eliminating magazines all together.
It is also an argument for placing law abiding gun owners at something of a disadvantage vs criminals in the event of an altercation.

[Rob Crawford]

Charlie -- the madman had 20 minutes; anyone who has practiced can reload small magazines multiple times given that much time.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

NK, please watch the video at 2:36.

[Tom Maguire]

Wiki says RobC is correct, the Colt Army Revolver "Great Equalizer" was a 'single action' revolver, no need to manually cock the hammer--

I think that relies on a functional definition of "semi-automatic" that is not widely shared. Wiki for "Automatic revolver" says that:

An automatic revolver (more correctly, a semi-automatic revolver) is a revolver that uses the energy of firing for cocking the hammer and revolving the cylinder, rather than using manual operations to perform these actions. Examples of genuine semi-automatic revolvers are rare, and the term is more often applied to break-open revolvers with automatic systems for ejecting spent casings on opening.

My very strong impression is that by semi-automatic people mean that some of the energy of the gunpowder explosion is directed towards reloading the gun. Revolvers do reload, but the force is mechanical, or so Wiki tells me:

Compared to autoloading handguns, a revolver is often much simpler to operate and may have greater reliability. For example, should a semiautomatic pistol fail to fire, clearing the chamber requires manually cycling the action to remove the errant round, as cycling the action normally depends on the energy of a cartridge firing. With a revolver, this is not necessary as none of the energy for cycling the revolver comes from the firing of the cartridge, but is supplied by the user either through cocking the hammer or, in a double action design, by just squeezing the trigger.

Well. If someone can guide me to a website where revolvers are discussed in the same class with semi-automatics, fine. But my impression (also strong) is that even in the Guns and Ammo world there is a clear break between the two categories.

And for purposes of this post, the odds that well-informed Gallup poll respondents believe the widespread nomenclature for a Colt Revolver is "semi-automatic" have to be tiny.

[boris]

"unarmed bystanders to intervene"

Sure ... the 1st graders could have gang tackeled him and smothered him with a plastic bag.

[NK]

Ig, your second statement is only true to a point. If 10 round magazines were the lawful limit, yes a criminal could build an unlawful 30 round magazine and use it in the commission of a crime, like mass murder. But in the case of a mass murder, the bystander would need only to stop (i.e. KILL) the lone mass murderer, high volume of rounds isn't the point for the defender, the high volume facilitates the mass murder. Single shot rifles would make mass murder far more difficult -- no doubt. But there are unrebuttable reasons that that sportsmen and home defenders have need for a semi-automatic weapon magazine containing more than one shot.

[lyle]

NK, in the handgun training I've done, you're taught how reload very quickly. Once trained, a shooter can go through as many loaded clips as he or she has around. I have seven 15 round clips for my 9mm. If I'm particularly in need of releasing frustration I'll load all of them up and shoot them in very quick succession. It's quite therapeutic.

[boris]

"But in the case of a mass murder, the bystander would need only to stop (i.e. KILL) the lone mass murderer, high volume of rounds isn't the point for the defender"

Seems to me that is a short sighted speculation. A high capacity magazine would be an advantage in pinning down an assailant until backup arrives.

[NK]

TK - we went through this months ago, there is a vast difference between the extraordinary physical ability and skill of one man and making the rest of us potentially like him using the mechanical technology of a modern semi-automatic pistol or rifle.
Boris-- even in elementary schools there are adults, and I'd go as far as saying right now almost every elementary school in this country probably has a police officer in it.

TomM-- after Ex and DoT schooled me about pistol/revolver mechanisms and operation I hereby renounce anything I ever said about them, because there is a level of expertise needed which I have none of.

[NK]

Boris@350-- you may want to consider that scenario in a crowded movie theater or small classroom. That whole 'collateral damage' concept.

[boris]

"Boris-- even in elementary schools there are adults"

NK -- with a Bushwacker (sic) and a handgun any unarmed adult is deadbeef no matter if it's a 10 or 30 round magazine.

An adult shows up just when the BW runs out, shoot the adult with the handgun.

[boris]

"Boris@350-- you may want to consider that scenario in a crowded movie theater or small classroom. That whole 'collateral damage' concept."

I'll risk it. Pretty sure the next batch of victims would choose pin down fire directed at the perp over murder fire directed at them. YMMV of course.

[lyle]

You need to come out west, NK. Sportsman shooter's paradise. If you want to get into long conversations out here, talk guns.

[Rob Crawford]

Well. If someone can guide me to a website where revolvers are discussed in the same class with semi-automatics, fine.

They are self-loading, which is what I said. The quality of loading the next round without the operator having to handle the ammunition is the salient feature.

If you broaden your terminology to "handgun", then you'll find shooters discussing pistols and revolvers in the "same class". The practical advice is "use which ever you're comfortable with" -- because either is as effective as the other.

Given the hysteria shown by a portion of our population, I don't see any reason to presume they won't try to ban anything capable of two or more shots without a forty-minute reloading ritual between each one.

[hit and run]

NK:
I'd go as far as saying right now almost every elementary school in this country probably has a police officer in it.

Based on what?

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

NK, the point I am making is what rule will help if the one man of extraordinary skill decides to go on a spree?

[NK]

RobC-- has the final word here I think. He actually understands the firing operation details, and second he rightly points out the Lefties' "national discussion" will in fact be a combination of 'hysteria' and Orwellian Two Minute Hate. This interesting fact based discussion at JOM regarding magazine capacity, will never take place in the Left's national discussion, because the anti-gun Left will scream that every argument gun supporters make is an admission that anything but 40 minute reload ceremonial weapons should be banned, and they re being 'reasonable' by only proposing to ban "assault weapons". See the smarmy Schumer yesterday. I have no optimism that reason will prevail in the near future.

[Extraneus]

I read that the shooter had a Glock and a Sig pistol, in addition to the AR-15. We've already read that in CT the restrictions of the 1994 federal "assault weapons" ban are still in effect, meaning that the maximum legal magazine capacity is 10 rounds, even for AR-15s.

Is there any credible reporting on the guns and magazines actually used in the shooting? Did the shooter have and use 30-round clips?

[Adam Fiddywon]

"the madman had 20 minutes"

When seconds count, the police are only 20 minutes away.
Not blaming the police at all, they can't be everywhere at once. The police play less of a "protect" role and more of a clean up role most of the time. To clean up and serve.

[lyle]

Police carry guns to protect...themselves not you.

[NK]

Hit- concern for an immediate copycat madman- it's happening in the NY metro area-- that's 23M people: http://www.onenewspage.com/n/US/74rki173i/schools-police-work-together-on-security.htm

[chemman]

NK,
How far can you run in 2 to 3 seconds under the conditions of live fire. In my prime on an open track I could run 60 feet in 2 seconds which would allow me to tackle a shooter while changing clips. However during the brain haze of live fire I doubt I would get much more than 20 feet in the same time frame because of the decision making process that needs to occur. So limiting clips to 10 rounds really won't change the trajectory of mass shootings.

[Clarice]

Boehner says he has the votes for his Plan B; Reid says he won't schedule a vote on anything.
Game. Set. match.

[Rob Crawford]

Also remember that the "assault weapons" banned had only cosmetic differences from those not banned. And that the term "assault weapon" has been so broadly used in recent reporting that I suspect my 10/22 qualifies.

The sad reality is that we really cannot effectively stop this kind of tragedy, and that even steps to mitigate it could have tragic side effects. I think the most effective thing we could do is find stronger ways to deal with the violently mentally ill -- and, yeah, that has dangers, too.

[NK]

chemman-- obviously depends on the circumstances. For instance, a younger chemman 20-60 feet from a madman having to replace an empty 10 round magazine may stop the death and injury that would have been caused by 20 more rounds before the madman had to reload.

[Tom Maguire]

Eliminating high-capacity magazines, beyond actually not being possible, would be mere security theater.

And you think there is only a limited market for security theatre? The last time I flew I saw grandmothers taking off their shoes (and felt much safer).

I agree that a high magazine clip ban won't mean anything (and I can't WAIT to learn what it is!) but so what? Obama very much needs to be seen as Doing Something; doing something effective is entirely secondary.

Well, unless you think he is going to be giving an eloquent speech to his liberal base explaining why an assault weapons ban is a pointless, cosmetic feel-good waste of time. I am not holding my breath.

Which leaves me wondering - Obama needs this win, but can the NRA afford to take on this fight and lose? Obviously, if they fight and win its a big win. But if they fight and lose, that could really hurt their street cred down the road. This Gallup poll gives them a lot to work with, but they really do need to emphasize their desire to make a contribution and be part of the solution (perhaps by helping Obama change some of HIS ideas. As if.)

On a related note, one of the more interesting factoids I noticed in the coverage was this: the NRA spent $17 million last year on political efforts.

Mike Bloomberg, a highly visible anti-gun nut, has a net worth of maybe $20 billion. He could come up with $20 million a year to oppose the NRA just by checking under his sofa cushions.

[henry]

NK, Rob C's idea of 45 minute reloads does not even work for black powder muzzle loaders (or bow & arrow either). With practice, black powder can reload 3 times per minute (ref US Civil War) and some individuals will be faster. The magazine argument leads to disarmament, period.

[NK]

TomM@4:24-- that is a very fair summary of the politics of where we are. I think that means a 'grand bargain' ban on "military style" .223 rifles (whatever the devil THAT means), and high capacity 'military style' magazines.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--high volume of rounds isn't the point for the defender--

On what is that contention based?
It can take a remarkably large number of rounds to both hit and disable a single attacker.

[Extraneus]

In 1993, Colin Ferguson used two 15-round clips to kill 6 and wound 19 on an LI Railroad train. This led to the ban on "high capacity" clips, limiting them to 10 rounds.

As if he couldn't have changed clips twice instead of once.

No one on the train besides Ferguson was armed.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I think that means a 'grand bargain' ban on "military style" .223 rifles (whatever the devil THAT means), and high capacity 'military style' magazines.

Posted by: NK | December 20, 2012 at 04:27 PM--

1. AK 47s and many other military style semi autos are not .223 caliber.
2. Such a "bargain" will never pass the present house.

[Rob Crawford]

Mike Bloomberg, a highly visible anti-gun nut, has a net worth of maybe $20 billion. He could come up with $20 million a year to oppose the NRA just by checking under his sofa cushions.

Perhaps. But he can't come up with as many people.

[Extraneus]

But if they fight and lose, that could really hurt their street cred down the road.

The NRA couldn't possibly lay down for a magazine ban. Members would lynch La Pierre, for one thing.

Besides, it ain't gonna happen.

[Rob Crawford]

The only way more restrictions get put on guns is if it's all done without going through Congress.

[Annoying Old Guy]

I think the NRA should just delay. The Obama Administration has repeatedly demonstrated its inability to focus on actual policy (as opposed to campaigning) for 4 years. Give it a month or two and it'll be going on about some other bright shiny object. I mean, I am sure it will have a "laser like focus" on this, especially with the special quality of leadership "Slow" Joe Biden brings to all of his endeavors.

[Tom Maguire]

Is there any credible reporting on the guns and magazines actually used in the shooting? Did the shooter have and use 30-round clips?

Credible? Hmm...

CT has an assault weapons ban that mirrors the old Fed legislation but they never adopted (and rejected a few years back) a large capacity magazine law. So thirty in the clip would have been legal.

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

TM,

Its not the money NRA spends its the people they have as members who are a hellva lot more motivated than the Brady Bunch or Bloomie Nanny Squad. You know all those Union guys who we see as thugs? They hunt and own lots of guns. Believe me - every able body man in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin who is not a sissy, owns a gun. Not all of them are right-wing extremists.

This is not a fight that The Won wants to really get into and that is why he handed it over to Joe "Two Gun" Biden. What a joke.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

FYI to any non gun-nuts; saying 'clip' is generally adjudged to be weenie, saying 'magazine' isn't.

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

Rob is right. There are already rumors that Obama will do what he wants to do through executive action. Good. We can then challenge in the courts and delay for the time it takes to impeach him (yeah, I know):)

[centralcal]

Busy at work - don't know if this posted yet - but Jake Tapper is leaving ABC and going to CNN.

That seems a strange career move.

[Extraneus]

saying 'clip' is generally adjudged to be weenie, saying 'magazine' isn't

I use them interchangeably, but I'm not a nut. (At least I don't think I am, but I'm not sure I'd know it if I was. Hmm...)

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

I agree with the nomenclature used by Wiki in Tom M's 3:39. That's been my understanding for my entire life, and I don't think I've ever encountered anyone using different terminology.

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

CC,

Zucker needs to buy top talent to re-invent CNN. Sort of like using free agency to help your NFL team that has fallen on hard times. I call it the George Allen strategy. Sometimes it works but Tapper is still a lefty and that is not the direction CNN needs to go.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

The only semi-automatic weapon I can think of that uses a clip is the M-1 Garand. All the others use magazines. Hearing a magazine referred to as a clip is like nails on a blackboard to me, but that's just another battle lost. Among many.

[centralcal]

I agree Tapper is a lefty, JiB - no argument there, but frankly viewer-wise ABC News is much higher on the ratings scale than CNN, which is the lowest of even the cable channels.

Not exactly "upwardly" mobile for Jake.

[narciso]

Well they are switching out Burnett for O'Brien,
exiling Vanderbilt to Mordor, late night, CNN is the blanc mange left wing network, MS mines the deep vein of crazy,

[Extraneus]

Learn something every day.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"every able bodied man in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin who is not a sissy, owns a gun"

Think Pennsylvania on the opening day of deer season. Or, say, Wyoming, where a standard salutation among gentlemen is "got your elk yet?"

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Where is Burnett going? I think she deserves better.

[narciso]

To fill Soledad O'Brien's morning slot, I agree, it's an 'abandon all hope, ye who enter here' moment for her, I don't know where they would put Tapper, then again I haven't heard much of
Peter Boyer lately, at Fox.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I agree with the nomenclature used by Wiki in Tom M's 3:39. That's been my understanding for my entire life, and I don't think I've ever encountered anyone using different terminology.

Posted by: Danube of Thought on IPad | December 20, 2012 at 05:19 PM--

I've never even heard of a 'semi automatic revolver' that uses energy from the fired round to rotate the cylinder or cock the hammer.

Regardless of nomenclature, the practical use of a double action revolver is identical to a semi automatic pistol; you pull the trigger once, a round is fired and another unfired round is under the firing pin awaiting firing.
It could be argued a double action revolver is more "semi automatic" than a single action semi auto since you've got to cock the hammer manually on the first round on the latter.

[jimmyk]

Well they are switching out Burnett for O'Brien

Seriously? Burnett isn't sufficiently stupid and leftist for them? Or not black enough?

(Yes, Soledad considers herself "black," a good career move.)

[narciso]

OT, I didn't see the show, but honestly does it matter, in the LUN

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I took it to be O'Brien getting the boot, to be replaced by Burnett.

[narciso]

That's plausible, then again it's CNN, that would be too logical for them,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

A couple of hours of John Boehner's regimen and Caspar the Ghost would be blacker than Soledad.

[Captain Hate]

(Yes, Soledad considers herself "black," a good career move.)

Did the blacks get to weigh in on that?

[Extraneus]

Ethics panel says New York's Rep. Gregory Meeks failed to report loan

Washington – The House Ethics Committee has found that Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-NY, failed to disclose a loan on his financial disclosure reports. But the panel says there's no credible evidence that the errors were knowing or willful.

The committee declined Thursday to take any action against the eight-term Democrat, noting that he corrected the errors and omissions.

Meeks was obligated to report the loan from a Queens real estate broker, Edul Ahmad, on his 2007, 2008 and 2009 disclosure statements. He amended the reports in June 2010.

The committee also said the evidence did not establish that the Ahmad loan was an impermissible gift.

Meeks has contended the loan terms were in writing but has been unable to produce the loan document, saying he misplaced it.

Apparently they didn't ask Ahmad, the guy who made the loan.

[maryrose]

I like Erin Burnett.
I think the gun debate is a red herring. We should be discussing the Benghazi hearing.
Tapper asked Carney if 1 resignation and 3 removal of current duties are enough as a consequence of Benghazi. Carney with a straight face answered the President is pleased with the report and the consequences. I am sure the parents of the fallen Americans are cheered by that comment{sarc}
Words cannot describe my diappointment that no one will be held accountable for this debacle. Hillary is off the hook . Her testimony in January will be an afterthought. I like the idea of no new confirmation hearings for Kerry until Hildebeast testifies. Obama put these people in positions of power and then we watch helplessly as they screw it all up
I guess I expected more people to be outraged by this. Now they are hiding the real damning parts of the report. Everyone is involved with Christmas and could care less. Of course that was Obammy's plan all along.Now a part of me thinks Romney should have gone for broke and accused Bammy in the last debate of standing by and doing NOTHING while our brave Americans perished. There is no evidence Bumbo did eveything he could.None at all.

[Extraneus]

Did the blacks get to weigh in on that?

Perhaps some did, but the High Council on Blackness is still considering the question.

[maryrose]

Ext:
Does every dem rep who happens to be black{no I'm not racist,I've done diversity training have a problem with taxes, paying what they owe, filling out forms regular people do or trying to hide income?

[narciso]

Well it's been a more interesting and infuriating topic for me, too, maryrose,
that report is 'travesty of two mockeries of a sham' So much of the story, is underwater like an iceberg,

[jimmyk]

Burnett is a big improvement over O'Brien (though so would a moldy sponge). But in my limited viewing of her she's been a disappointment--a bit of lightweight. She's attractive, I must say, and is probably smart in the IQ sense. She just doesn't come off that well when discussing current events.

[Extraneus]

They're underserved, maryrose. That's the bottom line.

(Just got my annual diversity certification this week, so I know about this stuff.)

[narciso]

Well she was a banker for Goldman, before she went into journalism, when you're at CNN, you're required to wear the Harrison Bergeron helmet, and that can lead to severe diminishment of faculties, (re; Rich Sanchez, who became a drooling idiot,) yet apparently not enough to be rehired at Fox Latino.

[Captain Hate]

I think the gun debate is a red herring. We should be discussing the Benghazi hearing.

I'm really amazed at how the left is willing to overlook the death of an ambassador and 3 former SEALS after all the conniptions they threw at the outing of some whorish desk bound paper pusher and didn't even punish the real leaker. Somehow using Sandy Hook in the same argument as Benghazi raises my contempt level to eleven.

[narciso]

Ext, I don't think they haven't been in contact with Ahmed, therein lies the rub;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rep-gregory-meeks-investigated_n_919928.html

As I pointed out, then, the real leaker was too well connected with the right people, and Libby was with 'the wrong' people. And 'what toads the wet sprocket' is when Armitage was in deep kimche, because Perot and 'the saucer people'were accusing him of furthering drug trafficking, who did he hire, Scooyer Libby.

[centralcal]

Ouch, ouch, ouch. Free Beacon has some fun congratulating Jake Tapper on his new gig!

Former Dem Spokesman Joins Third Place Network

Heh.

[matt]

WTF is a high clip magazine? High capacity magazines, yes.

Outlaw the .223/5.56mm (AR type) firearms, and maybe even the 7.62 x 39mm (AK's) and the manufacturers will simply switch to other calibers. The nation is awash in M-1's, M-1 carbines (nasty little short range things), M-1A's, AR's, AK's, SKS's and all sorts of military look/feel firearms. Virtually all of them are semi-automatic, meaning 1 trigger pull, one bullet. Automatic weapons are illegal without a hard to get license and are very expensive, unless you are a peace officer. Then you can buy whatever you want.

Semi-automatic weapons use the gas from the bullet as it discharges to push back the bolt to allow the empty shell to remove itself and the new shell to load. Semi-auto pistols, shotguns and rifles work pretty much the same.

Changing a magazine takes 3-8 seconds for most shooters with minimal experience. You push a button. the old magazine drops out, you put a new magazine in place, and you cock the weapon to place a round in the chamber. Firearms are typically lowest common denominator designs. Not much to screw up.

The Newtown shooter was a gamer, so knew a lot about the point & shoot capabilities and must have had some familiarity with the real thing through his mom's use of firearms and his introduction to them. Owning five firearms as was reported by the way, is entry level gun ownership in most of the country.

There are people I know with 60-80 Colt 1911's, all variations of the same firearm, but all slightly different. and that may be just one of the firearms collected. Most all of them remain unfired or they might lose value.

It's sort of like boats in a marina. 95% of those boats sit at the dock 99% of the time. Maybe 1% of all firearms get fired in America. people keep them for home defense or maybe hunt a little or maybe shoot a little at the range or maybe even competitively.

Where they do get used for mayhem is in the inner cities, the drug trade, an occasional marital homicide, and robbery.

There is an internal switch in firing a firearm as well. Most people take firearms courses these days because they are required, so they have safety drilled into them. Never point a firearm at someone, etc.....

But a deranged individual, or even once say a soldier enters the "on" mode, using that firearm can become automatic. In a sane situation sane rules apply, but not for the insane.

Soldiers are trained to turn it on and turn it off. Cops for the most part by the way, are not.Thus the 130+ rounds fired at a pair of reckless/stolen car drivers back east the other day, killing both. Police adrenaline issues are a very big problem as far as I am concerned.

Whatever the tool is, once someone decides to use it, it is their obligation to use it responsibly. The net result with any firearm is the same. A very large and dangerous amount of kinetic energy is released suddenly. Revolver, muzzle loader, semi automatic pistol or rifle or arquebus.

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

CH, its actually Sandy squared, right? The first distraction was Sandy the storm and the second was Sandy Hook (may God rest their souls). Next will be a Sand storm in Iran. [Oh wait that was so 1988].

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"you pull the trigger once, a round is fired and another unfired round is under the firing pin awaiting firing"

That's true with a semi-automatic pistol, but not with a double-action revolver. With the latter, you pull the trigger and the next unfired round rotates simultaneously into alignment with the barrel as the hammer comes backl. As you continue the pull, the hammer comes forward and fires the round. At the end of this process the firing pin is resting on the primer of the just-discharged cartridge. No further movement occurs until you begin the next trigger pull.

[NK]

So DoT-- aside from the lower capacity of rounds, it sounds like the double action revolver has by definition a slower rate of fire than a semi-automatic pistol because of the longer mechanical trigger pull. correct?