CIA Acting Head Agnostic On Enhanced Interrogation

The acting CIA chief declared his agnosticism on the efficacy of enhanced interrogation in a letter to CIA employees discussing the new Bin Laden film:

The acting director of the C.I.A., Michael J. Morell, has criticized a new movie about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, saying it exaggerates the role of coercive interrogations in producing clues to the whereabouts of the leader of Al Qaeda.

In a message sent Friday to agency employees about the film, “Zero Dark Thirty,” Mr. Morell said it “creates the strong impression that the enhanced interrogation techniques that were part of our former detention and interrogation program were the key to finding Bin Laden. That impression is false.”

In fact, he said, “the truth is that multiple streams of intelligence led C.I.A. analysts to conclude that Bin Laden was hiding in Abbottabad,” the city in Pakistan where a Navy SEAL team killed him in May 2011. “Some came from detainees subjected to enhanced techniques,” Mr. Morell wrote, using the C.I.A.’s euphemism for harsh and sometimes brutal treatment that included waterboarding. “But there were many other sources as well.”

He said that “whether enhanced interrogation techniques were the only timely and effective way to obtain information from those detainees, as the film suggests, is a matter of debate that cannot and never will be definitively resolved.”

So there were many information sources, including some based on enhanced interrogation. And since these were not controlled experiments, we have no way of knowing how the prisoners subjected to enhanced interrogation might have responded if treated differently.

The NY Times pretends there is no news here:

The message from Mr. Morell, who is considered a top candidate for the C.I.A. director’s job, comes days after a similar statement from three senators, including Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, which will consider the confirmation of whomever President Obama selects as C.I.A. director.

"Similar statement"? Here is the statement and the Times coverage. I don't know how you read either one and come away thinking enhanced interrogation provided anything useful. Here is the Times lead:

WASHINGTON — In an unusual Congressional critique of Hollywood moviemaking, three United States senators on Wednesday lambasted “Zero Dark Thirty,” the new fictionalized film about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, calling it “grossly inaccurate and misleading in its suggestion that torture resulted in information that led to the location” of the terrorist leader.

And a bit later:

Some human rights advocates have described the film as ambiguous on the question of whether torture was useful, while others believe it implies that torture produced some early clues.

The senators take the latter view and say the movie is “factually inaccurate” and “has the potential to shape American public opinion in a disturbing and misleading manner.”

So the impression that enhanced interrogation provided "some early clues" is "factually inaccurate" and may be "misleading" to the American public.

And that is really similar to the current admission that there were many clues that led to Bin Laden, some of which came from the enhanced interrogation program? Who is zooming whom?

Comments

[Barry Dauphin]

Is he also agnostic about whether enhanced interrogation played a role in preventing acts of terrorism, disrupting their plans, forcing them to relocate or otherwise breaking down their organization. Limiting inquiry into only its role in getting UBL does not address the issue it purports to address.

[matt]

Of course! Khalifa was just dying to tell us everything he knew!They were all so proud of themselves they were will to give us Bin Laden's house keys.

What a moronic, politically correct statement. Almost as moronic as Friedman's column this morning.

[cf. 'diving reflex'.]

Waterboarding should be safe, legal, and rare.

It's a smart bomb to the Central Nervous System.
=============

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--CIA Acting Head Agnostic--

So Barry finally hired a guy who doesn't worship him?

[rse]

Kim-Unless you are US military and then it is part of your training.

The post I wrote before the LUN of Continuing Our Conversation . . . on the intentional cultivation of false belief systems is so pertinent to the IPCC report and Education for Sustainability and CAGW generally. And biodiversity once the schemers get traction.

[We've been over this before.]

If it's not legal and regulated, then it will be unregulated and used unsafely. It will be used because it is effective.
===============

[Melinda Romanoff]

That's why the game is called "Let's back up over the beaten horse, again!".

There's always someone still not paying attention in class.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

The on-going left wing fantasy world just gets weirder and weirder. "Enhanced interrogation is torture, therefore it couldn't possible be helpful. Drones are cool. It's fine for the president to use drones, and detain Americans without a trial. Spending is not a problem, the only problem is rich people. If we get rid of guns criminals won't kill people."

I feel like I live in Bizarro land.

[centralcal]

Sheesh - been busy all day prepping for tomorrow and thought I would check in on the thread. Holey Moley, there are so friggen many of them, I decided, maybe not! Just pick the most recent one - lol.

[Narratives are the plasticity of culture, but this one's overheated and running all over the place.]

rse, I've a lot of fun reminding people on the climate blogs that a warmer world will sustain more total life and more diversity of life.

Almost as much fun as reminding them that a colder world is a Hell of a lot more catastrophic than a warmer one.
=================

[Elliott]

Posted by: Narratives are the plasticity of culture, but this one's overheated and running all over the place.

It does have a Morrell, though.

[Jim Eagle]

Elliott:) Touche.

[narciso]

Sorry I posted this, on the Norwegian Blue thread;

Actually Bowden gave up the last part of the puzzle, in the Finish, pointing out Slahi, was the first to give up the courier, his lawyer Couch complained,but the Schmidt/Furlow report basically poored cold water on the claim. Slahi had been with the Hamburg cell that included Jarrah, who was on United 93, the plane that Quahtani was supposed to complete the hijacker complement for, so it's logical they would know of the Courier.

[Extraneus]

It's much more humane to simply kill terrorists, even if it's a single shot to the belly that leaves them suffering for days.

Logic is a great thing, in moderation.

[Extraneus]

Btw, how many terrorists have been killed since this interrogation fetish, who would have otherwise been taken alive?

They're not that big on eggs, but they do love their omelets.

Libs weren't too exercised about the Cambodians or Vietnamese who were murdered after their media victory in that war either, now that I think of it.

[narciso]

Well it's like the only facility that gets any scrutiny in Cuba, is Gitmo, not Villa Marista
(Military Intelligence) Rancho Boyeros, Cuban Airforce, et al

[Extraneus]

David Gregory Violates DC Gun Law On National TV

D.C. Official Code 7-2506.01

(b) No person in the District shall possess, sell, or transfer any large capacity ammunition feeding device regardless of whether the device is attached to a firearm.

Surely he'll be arrested.

(Just look at that doofus. Is there any better argument for secession than that we're being beaten by these people?)

[narciso]

I posted that link on the other thread, in other jackanapes news, some no latent 'wise Latina' Alisaa Valdez, in the Post, does a gratuitous slam at Sarah, subsequently we find out her new husband, has stepped out on her.

[fdcol63]

If we're being beaten by these idiots, what does that say about us?

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"what does that say about us?"

Decline of the West.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

fdcol63, it means we are getting what we deserve.

http://www.art2superpac.com/issues.html

[narciso]

Well, no as Kim points out, they create narratives of the imminent arrival of the tidal wave, that will wash out the coasts, of innocent goat herders sent to Devil's Islands, I mean Gitmo,

[narciso]

The reality is often quite different;

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2012/12/die_welt_al_qaeda_emirs_hand_i.php

[h]

Imagine the carnage, had Jeffery Dahmer owned a high capacity magazine!!!!

[h]

I have a great idea!! We should have Planned Parenthood *the Death Hut* waterboard babies, and then we could use the scissors or forcepts to stab Terrorists in the skull.

[Jim Ryan]

If we're being beaten by these idiots, what does that say about us? If we're being beaten by these idiots, what does that say about us?

That we have a tough time appealing to a vicious and ignorant electorate?

[narciso]

What vicious animals we are, we pointed out his stupid votes, and his errors in judgement

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2012/12/behind-the-ugly-attacks-on-hagel.html

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Quite the opposite, Jim.

[h]

Narciso, the Amy Davidson piece is CONTENT FREE. ZIP ZILCH NADA.
It had zero facts. Not a one.

[Gus]

I've posted 3 times, under "h". Why and how, I don't know.

[narciso]

No, she's proven she's preternally both vicious and ignorant, a powerful combination,

[Gus]

If you do not agree with a LIBARD, you are a hater, or you are vicious. Libtards are the most hateful vicious people on earth.

[Captain Hate]

Libs weren't too exercised about the Cambodians or Vietnamese who were murdered after their media victory in that war either, now that I think of it.

I've never heard Ayers, or any of his butt boys in the MFM, mention this when he's bragging about how he ended the war. Amazing none of those dumbasses bring that up; it's like they have an agenda...

[Gus]

Both Billy Boom boom Ayers and his lovely wife Bernadine Dohrn were VIOLENT TERRORISTS. Boom Booms girlfriend Diana Oughton got blown to SMITHEREEEEEEEENS manufacturing a bomb a la Ayers.

LIBTARDS LOVE THEM.

[narciso]

This is what we wanted to do in this country, re Prairie Fire, and Grathwold's testimony, Captain,
if you saw from the early morning thread, the Slate columnists doing an extra round of Vizzini, describing Ellie Goulding's voice as 'Cyborgian' that's just full of epic fail,

[Captain Hate]

No, she's proven she's preternally both vicious and ignorant, a powerful combination

I see that she writes on sports for the New Yorker, which must be some great parody material. Maybe she, Selena Roberts and Jemele Hill should have a contest to prove which of them is the most ignorant bint when it comes to sports knowledge.

[fdcol63]

IMO, we lost the country when we allowed anti-American Marxist "liberals" to infiltrate and dominate the MFM, academia, Hollywood/entertainment, and government bureaucracies.

We failed to stop them when we could, before they controlled the major institutions which indoctrinate, brainwash, and spread their propaganda, values, and version of history to generations of American children and immigrants.

Until we're ready to change that, nothing will change for the better in this country and we'll continue to march toward the Left's dystopian utopia.

[Gus]

See!! There is our problem. fdcol63 is a hater. He doesn't love the children.

[Captain Hate]

@NFLhistory: Peyton Manning now has 9 12-win reg seasons, most of any starting QB in @NFL history. Brady & Favre tie for 2nd w/6

In fairness to some of the old timers (Unitas and Otto Graham come to mind) the 16 game schedule didn't begin until 1978 and Goodell is still spanking his tiny monkey to increase it to 18. That said, it's an incredible accomplishment by Manning.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"she's proven she's preternally both vicious and ignorant, a powerful combination,"

How are we supposed to know who "she" is?

[Captain Hate]

if you saw from the early morning thread, the Slate columnists doing an extra round of Vizzini, describing Ellie Goulding's voice as 'Cyborgian' that's just full of epic fail,

I'm not sure what that clown's area of expertise is supposed to be, but writing a comprehensible, if not insightful, sentence about music is mission highly improbable.

[narciso]

Amy Davidson, the New Yorker's answer to Keith Olbermann, it was a silly question,

[jimmyk]

We failed to stop them when we could, before they controlled the major institutions which indoctrinate, brainwash, and spread their propaganda, values, and version of history to generations of American children and immigrants.

Other than the government bureaucracies, I'm not sure how we could have prevented it. How could we have prevented the leftist takeover of academia, the MSM, and Hollywood?

What can we do now? We can hope SCOTUS does a number on affirmative action. We're stuck with the Dept of Education for at least four years, but presumably more, ditto for the Civil Rights Commission, Labor Department, the now federalized student loan industry, and all the other bureaucracies that push academia to the left. This will be a 100 year war.

[Gus]

True Jimmy, the right to vote, creates a problem. Dumbfux can vote to tax you and give to them.

[Gus]

Jimmyk. E.....P.......A......

Obama uses the CZAR to the MAX.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

42-6 Seahawks in the 4th. What I yearn to see now is another Seattle TD, after which Carroll goes for two in an effort to reach 50. That's exactly what Harbaugh tried against him in Stanford-USC.

[narciso]

Ouch, did they have any hope at the outset,

[Captain Hate]

Some true hatred between Harbaugh and Carroll. Btw the Skins/Girls game has been flexed to next Sunday night.

[fdcol63]

"This will be a 100 year war."

I don't think we have that long before the Left's vision is realized.

I'm not sure what we could have done before to prevent the Left's take-over of these institutions, but if we really don't want to let them take the country there, and if, as I do, you don't have the time - and even if you did, you no longer have any confidence in the electoral system - then something more drastic than simply "hoping" that the SCOTUS will do "something" will be necessary.

[narciso]

the way they failed on Obamacare and SB 1070,

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/medics-poisonous-gas-sprayed-in-homs-syria-video/

[Melinda Romanoff]

It will stop. Unless they can figure out how to steal the natural gas beneath our feet, they're going to run out of cash. Of course , at that point, they will show their true colors and try and steal what they need.

That will be the test.

[Gus]

Green Bay is #2 seed, exactly where they should have been.
Harbaugh and Carroll would sell their MOTHER for $$$$$$ or wins.

[narciso]

Well 'from the folks that brought you BCCI' Abu Dhabi, we have that wonderful character sketch, I mean propaganda piece 'Promised Land'

[Gus]

Melinda, I had a woman in my business the other day, that told me she was afraid of "fracking".
I asked her "why?"

She had no response.

[RichatUF]

fdcol63-

I don't think we have that long before the Left's vision is realized.

Not to be pollyannish about it but it comes down to "something that can't continue won't". Media for the most part is on the fast track to bankruptcy and higher education is going to come to a reckoning as well as student loans can't be funded (because of budget pressure at the federal, state, and local level) and all those fake degree programs and bloated administrations have to be scuttled. It won't take what is happening in Greece or Spain (both with 20%+ unemployment) either. We still have alot of advantages in this country, and at this point, everything else (higher taxes, more regulation, more government) has been tried and found lacking. The only solution that hasn't been tried is real smaller governmemnt and real tax cuts.

[RichatUF]

Mel-

Happy Anniversary to you and your better half.

In re: stealing the nat gas. I'm sure the government would like to try, but couldn't they just put a federal tax on it. It'd be easier than trying to push through a breathing tax.

[Gus]

Rich, we are so FUXED that NOTHING will be funded. Medicare and S.S. are so bankrupt that we are in deep trouble. That is what makes me despise Obama. He doesn't care. He wants our collapse. No matter HOW MUCH we STOLE from the RICH, it could not be enough, and that confiscation WILL HARM the economy. HE DOESN'T CARE. Or rather, that is what HE WANTS.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Rich-

Don't forget, there's a real affinity to avoid any governmental involvement in any business transaction, from the large to the farmer's market.

The grey economy is just minutes away, where ever you are. It's a fascinating subject that I've followed for years. The Romantic countries are masters of it, at lower levels. No wonder, they've been trained to avoid taxation for thousands of years. It's growing here.

And with that I sign off. G'night all.

[Gus]

Goodnight Melinda!! Did you got GINO'S EAST for that ANNIVERSARY??? Classy!! I would have.
All the best friend. And Merry Christmas.

[fdcol63]

RichatUF,

I hope you're right ... I certainly hope things will change peacefully and relatively civilly.

However, I think there's a danger that we may underestimate the cultural impact of the Left's 30-40 years of indoctrination and brainwashing here in the US. I do worry that we will experience some of the same violence and upheaval that Greece and Spain are experiencing, though I know they have had more extreme Leftist governments and instability than we have experienced yet, thankfully. I just don't think we can take it for granted that it won't happen here because it never has before.

And because of the indoctrination and brainwashing, where the Left has proven successful in ridiculing Republicans and conservatives and blaming us and our philosphy of smaller government, lower taxes, and fiscal restraint for the state of the economy now, I don't really share your belief that people will actually embrace our policies to get out of this mess.

I used to have more faith and confidence in the American people, but that was before 2008 and 2012. LOL

[Gus]

Mel. Of course you are correct, BUT, THE COMMIE/MARXIST LEFT, and the MFM...(SAME THING), have no honesty, nor concept of what choking the GOLDEN GOOSE causes.

[fdcol63]

Goodnight, all! Bedtime for Bonzo.

And if I don't get a chance to get back on JOM before then, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

[narciso]

Yes, we've already seen the Occupy forces step toward 'direct action' in a number of instances,
a more protracted crisis, will move then farther along that path,

[RichatUF]

fdcol63-

I just don't think we can take it for granted that it won't happen here because it never has before.

It has happened here before. The Civil War, the Civil Rights movement, and even the destructive crime wave of the late 70's and 80's, which didn't burn itself out until the early 90's.

I think the years ahead are going to be difficult, possibly destructive, but I'm also optimistic that it will turn around, even with my shaken faith because of '08 and '12.

[RichatUF]

Gus-

Rich, we are so FUXED that NOTHING will be funded.

Even at the depths of WW1 and WW2 things were funded at both the federal and state level (granted government was much smaller then). The deal that will get passed as we go over the "fiscal cliff" will be an IMF-lite structural adjustment program, which unfortunately, will make things worse. The problem I see is that with such weakness at home, countries and groups around the world are going to take advantage turning a financial crisis into a national security crisis.

[Porchlight]

Absolute required reading on gun control - read and bookmark, you may need it later.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

Now for the pleasant OT stuff - finally got most of the Christmas decorations up. Don't know why I'm so late this year - usually it's decorations first, then tree, but this year it was the reverse.

Made my first batch of gingersnaps. Santa must be bored of these. I don't care - they were my Nana's recipe and my grandmother (her DIL) called them (affectionately) "sh*tballs." We thought Nana brought them from Sweden, but turns out it's just the recipe from the Brer Rabbit bottle.

Thanks so much to our Janet for the sweet Chick Fil-A ornament. You really know how to brighten a gal's outlook, Janet. xoxo

Shaping up to be a nice, if quiet, Christmas with just the immediate family and no guests.

[jimmyk]

it comes down to "something that can't continue won't".

Yes, but it can go on for longer than you might think, and end more badly. The longer the entitlement fiasco is kicked down the road, the worse it will be, either by slow deterioration or by a big meltdown. Western Europe has been teetering down the road to destruction for the better part of 80 years, whether by war, fascism, or socialism.

I guess my point is this: Something that can't continue won't, but what will take its place? I wish I could be optimistic.

[RichatUF]

Porchlight-

Merry Christmas. Wanted to let you know (I posted it on the other thread too), I got into George Mason for EE. Thanks, one of your comments got me to clean up my application and sit down with the admission's officer. Got my acceptance letter on Friday (my dad read it to me over the phone). Hope your Christmas is enjoyable and quiet.

jimmyk-

Something that can't continue won't, but what will take its place? I wish I could be optimistic.

Can't think of anything either.

[daddy]

Clever pic posted at Instapundit:

[Gus]

9-11 is not a COEXIST DATING SITE.

Black on black gun violence is MORE THAN EPIDEMIC.... BRIAN WILLIAMS is LIBTARDED. NARY A WORD IS SPOKEN as "AFRICAN-AMERICAN DEMOCRATS SHOOT EACH OTHER, EACH AND EVERY DAY"

Why is that LIBTARDS???

[Gus]

Congratulations Rich. You are a good dude. Do it up...friend. God Bless.

[RichatUF]

Gus-

Thanks.

[RichatUF]

Saw this posted up at Powerline.

The promises that governments are making to their electorates are not just misleading: they are unforgivably dishonest. It will not be possible to go on as we are, or to return to the expectations that we once had. The immediate emergency created by the crash of 2008 was not some temporary blip in the infinitely expanding growth of the beneficent state. It was, in fact, almost irrelevant to the larger truth which it happened, by coincidence, to bring into view. Government on the scale established in most modern western countries is simply unaffordable. In Britain, the disagreement between Labour and the Conservatives over how to reduce the deficit (cut spending or increase borrowing?) is ridiculously insignificant and out of touch with the actual proportions of the problem. In the UK, the US, and (above all) the countries of the EU, democratic politics is being conducted on false premises.

The whole article is great.

[Elliott]

Congrats, Rich!

[Engineers are hidden magicians.]

Good on ya, Rich.
========

[daddy]

Had a very fun time last night going out with old friends for dinner at the outdoor Night Market in Hong Kong. Was quite chilly, and todays South China Morning Post says that tonight will be the coldest Christmas Eve in 12 years.

At the Night Market, as with everywhere in Hong Kong, it is simply masses of people you have to weave through, (for instance here's Nathan Road at Christmas) but finally we found an empty street-side outdoor table, and you sit on little plastic blue stools and order wonderful little dishes like garlic bokchoys and spicy prawns, etc. .

It is fascinating to see how so much of the rest of the world enjoys extravagantly decorating for Christmas. Many of the Paris restaurants were very Christmasy, and even in Dubai there were Trees and decorations in the Hotel Lobby and at the Irish Village outdoor Sports/Restaurant complex. Bangalore was decorated as well, especially the hotel, but that is not so surprising as the local legend is that Bangalore is Saint Thomas Territory (the Apostle Doubting Thomas).

But the coastal cities of China are where Xmas Decorations really are done proper. Hong Kong is completely lit up at night like a Christmas tree, with large Plastic trees all over
and snowflake decals on almost all the shop windows.
And choirs like these were passed as we did the 20 block hike down Nathan Road to then turn left to the Night Market.

In a hour or two we are off to Shanghai which likewise is usually decorated to the 9's with Santa stuff, so I'll hopefully enjoy a Christmas lunch at the Blarney Stone, then zip home to Alaska, and because of the Date Line change, I''ll arrive about noon there for Christmas Dinner as well. Momma says she will immediately stuff me with Turkey on arrival, then send me to bed, so I can wake up and take the dogs out at night. Merry Christmas.

[Janet]

Where are VA Dem. Senators Webb & Warner on this gun control frenzy?

If every Republican politician must answer for the pro-life Republicans in their party...shouldn't every Dem. politician have to answer for the anti-second amendment Dems. in their party?

[Janet]

...I guess Dem politicians don't even have to show up anymore. The MFM fight their battles. Our SoS Clinton doesn't even show up.

Stephanopolis (sp?)launched the war on women meme. I guess it's almost totally the Republicans vs. the media now.

[narciso]

Apparently they seem to have found this tamale is too hot, who knows;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/Obama-chucks-Hagel

[Jim Eagle]

daddy,

Tom Clancy's latest "Threat Vector" takes place in part in HK along Nathan Road. See any spooks while there?

[NK]

A very happy and merry Christmas to all--

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Congrats RIch, that's a great Christmas present.

[centralcal]

Good morning all and Happy Christmas Eve.

Looks like our Clarice is a winner! Doug Ross posted his Fab50 Blog Winners for 2012 and Clarice won in Most Valuable Blogger category! Congratulations to Clarice.

[centralcal]

Oh, and trying to catch up - congrats as well to Rich!

[henry]

CC, nice news on Clarice! Will she hear about it on the islands?

The nieces are setting up martinis on the beach, Merry Christmas JOM!!

[NK]

Congrats Clarice

[centralcal]

Don't know Henry - but I sent a quick email to her with a link should she be able to check her email in Hawaii.

[centralcal]

I am so looking forward to Christmas Eve tonight. Having most, if not all, of my family here (18 of them) for dinner: Prime Rib (w/au jus and horseradish condiment); Baked Potato Bar (butter, sour cream, bacon crisps, chives, grated parmesan); Haricot Vert (w/sliced almonds and a drizzle of lime butter); Mixed Green Salad w/Balsamic Vinagrette; Pumpkin Spice Cake w/whipped cream and COCKTAILS, WINE, BEER, KIDDIE CHAMPAGNE - the best part. lol.

[narciso]

Congrats, clarice, that's quite a feast you got there, central.

[narciso]

Is it Christmas eve or thanksgiving, because I see a lot of Turkeys;

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/24/senators-suggest-fiscal-deal-still-possible-but-appear-locked-in-same-standoff/

[James D.]

Merry Christmas to all here at JOM!

[rse]

Merry Christmas everyone.

What a feast CC!

Having my parents and inlaws over for Pasta Bolognese tonight. Have to triple the recipe so there should be more tomorrow.

Have a bottle of Duval Leroy chilled for whenever hubby and Red get done working. We love that on New Years and had a bottle Thanksgiving. Completely ruins anything served on campus as being something Red will touch. Which of course is part of the calculation.

And Red just called me to remind me what she wanted under the tree. I reminded her that never again can she come home on fall break and under the words "I need it now and it can be my Christmas present" and have me believe her.

Clearly my elf duty is not yet over.

[rse]

Utter, not under.

[Extraneus]

Traditional 7-fishes here. Scungilli fra diavolo w/ linguini, fried shrimp, stuffed clams, mussels marinara with some more linguini, stuffed calamari, a secret scallop recipe & crab-stuffed mushrooms.

[NK]

MelR-- happy belated anniversary!

[centralcal]

Oh Ext, we always wanted to try the Feast of 7 Fishes and even planned it a few years ago. Cioppino was to account for some of the 7 fishies. But, alas, there was some shortage of crab that year right on the cusp of Christmas Eve, so back we went to our traditional Prime Rib.

My Italian in-laws back in the day always prepared Baccala, so we always had fish represented. Alas, that is one recipe none of us thought to write down!

[narciso]

That sounds delicious, Ext, we go for the 'other white meat' for the holidays, but seafood and pasta, would be my second choice,

[Jim Eagle]

CC,

What? No Yorkshire pudding?

The JiB clan (all 3 of us) will be spending Christmas like we have as a family since Victorian times. A short Christmas eve, watching The Nativity Story (a break from Dickens:), enjoying a glass (or two) of Champagne then to bed. Wake up to Santa's deliverance, open presents, go to 10 O'Clock Mass and then walk the course for a little Christmas golf. For dinner its a "joint" aka Roast Beef with Yorkshire pudding, roast potatoes, parsnips and Brussels sprouts, Pumpkin and Mince meat pie. (No pudding this year as I forgot to start it back in the summer).

On the 26th we do Boxing Day and open the house up to friends and neighbors for a little Christmas cheer, some poached salmon, jumbo shrimp and clam dip with home made chips. Yummy. Can't wait.

On the 27th we are off to Southampton with a side visit to The Big Apple on January 2nd to the 4th. Back to Florida on the 6th.

Following Santa on NORAD's Santa Tracker. He is now in China and there over 1 billion gifts delivered so far. Busy guy.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

CC, Your feast sounds spectacular, but I think I'm with Henry with 8:14 AM.

My family doesn't arrive until tomorrow so it's dinner at Amy's and then back there at the crack of dawn to watch the kids open their gifts.

And then I start cooking.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I'm with Henry with 8:14 AM.

AT 8:14 -

Proofread Jane, proofread.