Gay Marriage To The Supreme Court

The Supreme Court takes up two gay marriage cases, and may or may not rule on the underlying right to gay marriage.

The Chi Trib reviews recent gay rights rulings from the Supremes.

MORE: AllahP is sagacious in trying to assess the political divides on the court:

I’m surprised. I said a few weeks ago that I thought neither wing of the Court had an incentive to grant cert on gay-marriage cases right now. The conservative wing should be worried that Kennedy, who’s written two landmark opinions supporting gay rights, will vote with the liberals. The liberal wing should be worried that a Court ruling imposing gay marriage nationwide will generate a ferocious backlash just at the moment that SSM supporters are starting to win state referendums.

It only takes four votes to grant cert. Which side decided to roll the dice?

But let me add this - Chief Justice Roberts is a young man with plans to be on the court for decades to come, and the direction of the tide on gay marriage is obvious. Is he going to write a majority opinion next summer limiting down gay marriage and then write the opinion overturning himself five, ten or twenty years from now?

Or will the seemingly legacy conscious Chief Justice vote to limit gay rights now and write the eventual, inevitable minority opinion down the road? That gives him a chance to get on the short list with 'Dred Scott' and 'Korematsu' among the worst decisions ever - at least, the short list kept by every liberal law school and historian (i.e., nearly all of them).

I don't think Roberts will stand athwart history yelling "stop". That said, I won't be surprised to see the court punt, or at most deliver a limited states rights opinion. Let me hark back to this old post on 'Virginia v. Loving', the 1967 case in which the Supreme Court struck down anti-miscegenation laws. My point was that the court followed rather than led on that issue, and this excerpt from law prof Randall Kennedy of Harvard was offered in eivdence:

The way that the Supreme Court approached the ban on interracial marriage is a revealing reminder of the cautious manner that the tribunal typically deals with volatile social controversies. It encouraged other lawgivers to lead the way. In 1948 the Supreme Court of California ruled that that state's ban on interracial marriage violated the federal constitution's Equal Protection Clause. Yet, even after having invalidated de jure segregation in public schooling in Brown v. Board of Education, the U.S. Supreme Court was afraid to touch the emotional issue of interracial familial intimacy. In 1955 the Court considered reviewing a conviction under Virginia's ban, but ultimately decided to duck the issue. During the following decade, a dozen states repealed laws prohibiting interracial marriage and the Civil Rights Movement challenged the white supremacist notions from which these prohibitions stemmed. Only near the end of that remarkable era of struggle against racism was the Supreme Court willing to rule on the (un) constitutionality of anti miscegenation laws. In Loving, the Court struck down Virginia's statute on the grounds that it represented merely an "invidious racial discrimination" and that it unjustifiably deprived the defendants of one of the "basic civil rights of man."

It took the court from 1948 to 1967 to resolve this, and a lot of heavy civil rights lifting had already been done by Congress.

Comments

[Cecil Turner]

Well, the obvious answer is that the Constitution guarantees gay marriage (henceforth called "marriage") . . . but only if it can be taxed (or something like that).

[Janet]

I wonder what they even mean by the word "marriage"? Do they know? It is meaningless now isn't it?
Gays as individuals have always been allowed to get married. A man couldn't marry a man because that wasn't marriage.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Ew. Now I've got some beefcake dude fondling the knee of some other dude in my left sidebar.
Thanks a lot, Tom.

[Frau Heirat über alles]

How about garrige?

I saw the other related item will be the payment of govt. benefits to such "spouses."

[sammy small]

Janet,

Depends on what the meaning of "man" is.

[Captain Hate]

This might be more in the identity imbecile's bathwheelhouse than economics. But I'm sure it's capable of posting something equally lacking in contact with reality.

[Frau Heirat über alles]

(probably "garriage.")

Via Meadia --via Insty

December 7, 2012 GOP Scared Stiff by Copyright Paper

About a month ago, the Republican Study Committee published a policy paper arguing for copyright law reform, only to rescind its publication almost immediately. The paper argued that current copyright law only serves the interests of big businesses, and that changing the law could encourage innovation. Needless to say, this enraged several of those big businesses who also happen to be party backers. In response, the committee issued an apology for releasing the report, explaining that the proper channels hadn’t been consulted prior to publications.

But now we’re learning that the story didn’t end there. The Washington Examiner reports that the staffer responsible for publishing the memo on the RSC website has been fired.

This is unfortunate. We were impressed by the original paper; it seemed like a sign that the Republican Party was sticking to its guns on innovation and free markets, even as it was courting new support from young voters. Firing the staffer who wrote the policy paper is an unforced error. The GOP should be doing everything in its power to convince voters that it is the party of innovators and dreamers, not the party of big corporations and crony capitalist lobbies.

[Captain Hate]

Frau, Duke and Duke usually waits much longer than this before the self-destruction begins. Top Men must all be involved on this disaster.

[Frau Heirat über alles]

Patterico on the topic:
"I’ll wait to make a prediction until I hear the oral arguments. Then I’ll make a prediction that will probably be wrong. That’s how it worked with the ObamaCare decision."

We weren't alone.

[Jim Ryan]

...but the Court went further in recognizing sweeping marriage rights to polygamists and bestialists in the decision. In addition, the 7-2 decision also recognized broad rights of those groups to perform their respective sex acts in public, while at the same time ironically keeping in place the right of local governments to prohibit monogamous heterosexualists from same. While many legal scholars have since then argued that....

[Clarice]

Very funny, Jim. I have to go read the links but I distinctly recall in her confirmation hearings the wise latina said marriage was not a "right" in her opinion.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

Stephen Reinhardt is as dishonest and cement-headed as any federal appellate jurist the nation has ever had.

[narciso]

Remember that Reinhardt was for whom that WH counsel, gottlieb clerked for, around the time of one of the loopier detainee decisions, before moving on to Justice Stevens, he was the contact
with CENTCOM, to Jill Khawam,

[narciso]

Now Randall Kennedy is really cuckoo, is heterosexual marriage in an invidious distinction,

http://washingtonexaminer.com/judge-mocks-obamas-accommodation-proposal-on-contraception-mandate/article/2515340?custom_click=rss#.UMObn3cmIsy

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I know nothing about the law, but I think the Court should rule that marriage of any kind is not a "right" and this is a state's issue.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I know nothing about the law...--

Is this a trick?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

This may be along the lines of 'who was least monstrous, Hitler, Stalin or Mao?' but I still suspect Sotomayor will be less awful than Kagan.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Iggy<

I understand the fight but I don't know anything about the legal issues in this case - and I really fear another Roe v Wade like decision that we will be fighting about for the next 40 years.

I do however know that marriage is not a right - for anyone. IIRC correctly most of the govt benefits for marriage were aimed at encouraging couples to have kids. These days it seems like we are encouraging single moms to have kids. It's time to stop all of it.

[narciso]

Jane, the law as well as thousands of years of precedent are sort of beside the point, the objective is to tear down at least one intermediary institution, between the people and the government,

[Clarice]

I suspect --since even Ginsburg has acknowledged it--that the Ct knows that Roe v Wade was mistakenly decided and will try hard not to repeat that mistake.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Jane,
I was just being a smart ass. No need to explain.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

I've often thought the same, Clarice. Public attitudes toward abortion were already changung in 1973, and most states would have legalized it--each on its own terms--by now. And the nation would have been spared the horrible division that arises when people are denied the right to vote on issues of importance to them.

[Jim Eagle]

Isn't "culture" one of the reasons we lost this time? The world we grew up in and valued has passed us by at warp speed. We may abhor it and disagree vehemently but it seems to me that outside of my own church's teachings and the network of family and friends we have there is a much larger liberal social nucleus out there. The gay population may only be 3 to 7% but it has become culturally acceptable because of the sympathetic exposure it gets in the media.

It is part of the DOOM algorithm.

[narciso]

They decide upon an objective, if it takes a false cry of rape, to expedite Roe, a bogus public relations campaign that white washes terrorists deeds, et al, or the editing of audio, video and print transcripts they do it,

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Bob Costas is now going to have to call for the banning of Mercedes since Dallas football player Jerry Brent is under arrest for drunk driving and killing fellow player Jerry Brown.

[maryrose]

JIB;
I feel the way you do. On this gay marriage decision, I haven't a clue as to how the SC will decide it. I know that gay marriage is not a big deal to younger folks.

[Jim Eagle]

DoT,

Did you see my YouTube link on the prior post to the history of Navy football? Frederick know wants to go to Philly next year:) Plus I see my old QB made an appearance with the CBS guys during the first quarter. Tight game this year.

Go Navy Beat Army. Go Army Beat Navy.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Speaking of not knowing the law, I saw a car at the grocery store today with a bumper sticker that said:

"I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one".

I had to leave quickly lest I get the urge to key it.

[Jim Eagle]

Osteen makes the FG and Army v. Navy tied at 10.

Closet game in years. Finally!

[DrJ]

Jane, ask them about Arthur Andersen, though it was the Feds that killed them.

[centralcal]

Happy Saturday to most of you and Happy Hanukah to Clarice.

Enjoyed the nude picture of Pelosi on the other thread. You could put any liberal face with that body - Boxer, DWS, Hillary, Fauxcahontas - they would all work!

[sbw]

they would all work

No they wouldn't. They'd take the job but never work.

[Frau Gewerkschaft]

"I'll believe corporations unions are people when Texas executes one."

FIFY

[Clarice]

well, I'm in one of those dangerous moods that overtake me every decade or so--the urge to bring order out of the chaos in my home,

Yesterday I organized all my teas--and noticed I still had some of the lovely "Garden View" variety SBW once sent me. Very delicious!

Got a massala dabba box to --one day-- set up my Indian spices in and bought some rustoleum chalkboard paint to paint labels on all my storage containers.The cat and my husband have gone into hiding. For good reason, I'd say.

[(Another) Bub]

OT to Holly: The "Pig" I recommended is the one by James Villas, one of my favorite cookbook authors. I mistakenly told you it was just published, but now I see it came out in 2010. Tempus fugit.

[Janet]

I must say that Clarice's cat is one of the prettiest cats I have ever seen. What kind is she again?

[Clarice]

Thanks, Janet. She's a bengal. The woman who bred her is about to give birth herself and is selling some of her queens for very reasonable amounts as she's cutting back for a bit. Jungletime Bengals in Upperco, Md.

____

Kids1--Michelle and USDA 0

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Agriculture Department is responding to criticism over new school lunch rules by allowing more grains and meat in kids' meals.

Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack told members of Congress in a letter Friday that the department will do away with daily and weekly maximums of meats and grains. Several lawmakers wrote the department after the new rules went into effect in September saying kids aren't getting enough to eat.

School administrators also complained, saying set maximums on grains and meats are too limiting as they try to plan daily meals.
.

[DrJ]

Here's some cute kitten pictures of snow bengals, which are colored differently than Clarice's cat:

http://www.silverstormbengals.co.uk/gallery.asp

[Clarice]

Dr J, they are gorgeous. The first time I saw a picture of a bengal I knew I had to have one.

[Clarice]

How's the grandson, Dr?

[jorod]

Do people have a legal right to violate the laws of nature concerning sex? Is marriage nothing more than a contractual relationship? Can society survive the undermining of a basic principal of societal organizing?

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

Missed that link KiB but will look for it.

God I feel sorry for Steelmen.

[DrJ]

Clarice, a friend here has a Bengal -- wonderful animal. He lives where there are coyotes, so he keeps it inside. Shame, because they love to run.

Here they simply show up and and demand to stay. Or they are cast-offs, who otherwise would succumb to the needle. So our crew is rather motley -- two tabbies (one a huge polydactyl), two gingers (long and short hair) and a Siamese -- but they all get on rather well.

That's not to mention the time shares.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

I remember deciding that the internet had really arrived when I found a site called Cats that Look Like Hitler.

[Clarice]

Dr J, I have to keep mine inside, too--but she's lots of room to room and when i can I let her out in a mesh tent or a netted carriage so she can get the air and stimulation.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

JiB...

[DrJ]

Clarice,

The grandson is fine. He likes to sleep in gramma's arms, which is much appreciated since he has been fussy so far.

[DrJ]

jimmyk,

Our long-haired ginger was from a litter that also was half tuxedos (two sires, it seems). One had the Hitler look, and was name 'stache. Charming lass.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Is marriage nothing more than a contractual relationship?

As far as the state is concerned that is exactly what it should be. The other parts of marriage belong to the church I think.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Clarice,

Can we have a sneak peak?

[sbw]

Happy to have sent the Gardenview, Clarice. It's my just-got-home-from-work tea.

[Janet]

West Point Cadet Quits; Alleges Christian Taliban on Campus

What???? There was just a lesbian wedding at West Point!

The supposed "Christian Taliban" seem pretty weak & useless.
If Bible believing Christians were half as evil & mean as the gay organizations say...it's a wonder there are so many successful, well-to-do gay people in our country. Apparently they weren't so downtrodden as to not succeed & own second homes at Rehoboth.

[Janet]

Here is the Sexiest Man Alive poll again.
24 votes & 14 comments....
Serious stuff.

[narciso]

Well one could look at it, as devout 'students' that is what it means in Arabic, but I imagine that's not the notion, they are trying to impart, of course there is no 'separation of mosque and state' I've noticed,

[RichatUF]

"Christian Taliban" wasn't that the slur that the Kozkiddies cooked up to describe evangelicals?

Evening all. Back to civilization, and Monday, back to day shift. For a while anyway.

[Clarice]

Jane, it's about how Detroit, the UAW , GM and the Middle East are all collapsing and tries to establish a theme--a lot of bad ideas coming to a predictable end/

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Janet,

I know a lot of gays. I'm pretty sure most if not all of them are Christians.

I just skimmed that article, but it didn't seem to be referring to gays.

[Janet]

More on Pigford.
So sad. I am sorry that this is NOT a sauerkraut link. :(

[Janet]

You're right, Jane. His complaint was as an Atheist.

[RichatUF]

Janet-

Ha. How did Iggy get nominated for sexiest man alive? Why am I even typing that?

[narciso]

Ah, yes, but thinking of Markos Moulitsas, Rich,
'gives me gas' this is the same doublestandard that prevented 'Mumbles' and Daley the Younger from allowing Chic a Fil affiliates, yet the gladly take the call of Quaradawi, the one behind
the Islamic Center of Boston, who preaches stoning of gays, and back in the day, issued a fatwa on Sadat.

[Janet]

I think hit set it up, Rich.

[RichatUF]

narciso-

Thought it curious that the cadet would use that term, but it isn't unusual for a cadet or two a year to resign, and point to religion as the reason, and then be cheered by the standard lefty groups for doing so.

[RichatUF]

Detroit, the UAW , GM and the Middle East

The winners of life's lottery. Powerball winners.

[RichatUF]

Whoa Iggy is up 23-2 and damn I hope his heart is in good shape when Sandy Fluke comes his way...

[Clarice]

A question: Just by chance is the monitor preventing multiple votes disabled?

[Gus]

If the Supreme Court marries, will Charlie Crist come out of the closet?? Again???

[Gus]

Wow, what a way to start the evening!

If the Supreme Court approves gay marriage....will Charlie Crist come out of the closet again??

[Ignatz]

Clarice sent me a self portrait. Not bad for her age!

[Clarice]

Good grief, Iggy--You said that was a private sharing to prove my trust in you.

On FB, porch is proving once again that the young girls of America are formidable. Her 9 y. o. wants a ew doll so she tpld her that she's "having bonding issues" with the one porch gve her.

HEH

[Gus]

Ignatz. That pictures is ALL CAPS.

[sbw]

Definitely not Nancy Pelosi.

[Ignatz]

I hear the surgeons in SF have some expertise in that area. If she pulls the right 'levers' maybe Nancy could get a decent referral?

[Gus]

Ignatz, imagine that picture in Pelosi wrinkles.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[Jim Ryan]

Oh, clarice. I knew I loved you.

But seriously, I see in the Constitution and the Declaration a penumbra whereby I have the right to [REDACTED], to [REDACTED], to [REDACTED], and even, if I feel like it, to [REDACTED] and not only that but also to have the value of these activities of mine recognized by the state as valuable activities which the state has an interest in promoting and in requiring other Americans to recognize as so valuable.

[daddy]

I distinctly recall in her confirmation hearings the wise latina said marriage was not a "right" in her opinion.

Take my "right"...Please.

[Clarice]

Jim, you certainly have a future in political speech writing.

Nytol.

[daddy]

Cats that Look Like Hitler?

Jawohl!

[Jim Ryan]

Good night nurse! Daddy that's the spittin' image. Poor kitty!

[narciso]

This might as well come from the 'Scary Door'

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_a4jxDnqKPqg/S5UxLebSOhI/AAAAAAAAAkY/pigkMeLTRdk/s320/TigerSquirrel.jpg

[daddy]

Further proof that cats are evil:

[daddy]

QED.

[daddy]

I can quit anytime.

[Carol Herman]

Maybe, it's time to do what France does?

There are civil unions. Just as here in the USA, if you've lived together for seven years, you can declare yourselves married under the law. (At least this was true in New York. Because that's how an aunt and uncle became man and wife.)

As to "terminology" ... you're still stuck with "man and wife."

Maybe, the Supreme's will find that churches provide religious marriages; while States provide "civil unions?"

Sure. Men can be "lustful." But women used to marry because men went out to work, and brought home paychecks. It was this way before reliable birth control was invented. A 'good wife" wasn't even supposed to display passion.

Sure, customs change. But to depend on lust to provide the controlling factor?

Of course, if you want to provide lots of business for lawyers, combine people together, until they want to kill each other. And, then? You provide lawyers who represent both sides. Which equates "marriage" to "fees." Will prostitution still be illegal?

[daddy]

Having proved that Cats are evil, I now provide proof that Dogliness is next to Godliness!

And that Bats, are the spawn of Satan:

[Jim Ryan]

Daddy, I have no words for how ugly that one is.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

That bat is pretty ugly too.

[henry]

Dog? Bat? I can't tell the difference, but the one on the left needs to be put out of its misery pronto!

[Gus]

henry, I have tickets for the Packers game tomorrow. If you are interested, You know where to find me!!!

[daddy]

A sobering good read from Janet Daley at the UK Telegraph:

The West is signing its own death sentence

[bgates]

In defense of Iggy's 10:15, Jane @7:35 did ask for a sneak peek of Clarice's pussy.

[Jim Eagle]

Ah, Sundays with Clarice.

[Janet]

What a thread...

I wanted to say again that my 8:03 post is WRONG. The guy using the term "Christian Taliban" was NOT gay. His complaint was as an atheist. Jane is exactly right.

I go on & on about the slander by the CBC about the Tea Party so I want to clear that up.

[Clarice]

Thanks, JiB, but your link isn't working:http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/slouching_toward_damascus.html

[pagar]

Clarice, Great Pieces! Always make Sundays better.

[Robin]

I recommend that Janet Daley piece daddy linked. I was taken aback when one of the ed sites I occasionally check in on had concluded quoting Berkeley prof Brad DeLong that US economic growth had stopped about 1980 because of increasing levels of inequality.

I am tired of well-intentioned people latching on to plausible arguments intended to lull them when the profs that wrote them Brad, Claudia Golden, and Larry Katz know they have created an illusion. But not one the typical person can see through.

Clarice-I think it is so hard for Americans to appreciate how dangerous and dysfunctional an Islamist North Africa is. And all the while the West is unilaterally disarming:militarily, mentally, its economic uniqueness. And the Pres wants to hit the accelerator to prove he is Transformational enough to destroy anything that has ever worked.

[Spending cuts first!--jimmyk]

I wanted to say again that my 8:03 post is WRONG. The guy using the term "Christian Taliban" was NOT gay. His complaint was as an atheist.

Janet, I took your point to be not that the guy was gay, but that just that if the "Christian Taliban" was so oppressive, how could a lesbian wedding take place without any beheadings?

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Geez I woke up deciding that I am going to find things to smile about today and I must say Hitler cats, and Waxmen bats have me started in the right direction. Thanks Daddy

BGates simply stunned me - nothing new (or wrong) with that.

Clarice, great Pieces - altho it did undermine the smile objective a bit.

I see calling for the death and torture of our troops is not a disqualifyer for hanging out with the Pres. I am so not surprised.

[Janet]

I stand by that point, jimmyk.

[narciso]

Great pieces, Clarice, Egypt is in Kronstadt phaze, whereas Tunisia and Libya, are in that Kerensky/Bani Sadr transition period, of course,
the administration's fecklessness since September has likely weakened their standing that they had to bring in a new regime with that CAIR apologist Aujali,