Gay Marriage To The Supreme Court

The Supreme Court takes up two gay marriage cases, and may or may not rule on the underlying right to gay marriage.

The Chi Trib reviews recent gay rights rulings from the Supremes.

MORE: AllahP is sagacious in trying to assess the political divides on the court:

I’m surprised. I said a few weeks ago that I thought neither wing of the Court had an incentive to grant cert on gay-marriage cases right now. The conservative wing should be worried that Kennedy, who’s written two landmark opinions supporting gay rights, will vote with the liberals. The liberal wing should be worried that a Court ruling imposing gay marriage nationwide will generate a ferocious backlash just at the moment that SSM supporters are starting to win state referendums.

It only takes four votes to grant cert. Which side decided to roll the dice?

But let me add this - Chief Justice Roberts is a young man with plans to be on the court for decades to come, and the direction of the tide on gay marriage is obvious. Is he going to write a majority opinion next summer limiting down gay marriage and then write the opinion overturning himself five, ten or twenty years from now?

Or will the seemingly legacy conscious Chief Justice vote to limit gay rights now and write the eventual, inevitable minority opinion down the road? That gives him a chance to get on the short list with 'Dred Scott' and 'Korematsu' among the worst decisions ever - at least, the short list kept by every liberal law school and historian (i.e., nearly all of them).

I don't think Roberts will stand athwart history yelling "stop". That said, I won't be surprised to see the court punt, or at most deliver a limited states rights opinion. Let me hark back to this old post on 'Virginia v. Loving', the 1967 case in which the Supreme Court struck down anti-miscegenation laws. My point was that the court followed rather than led on that issue, and this excerpt from law prof Randall Kennedy of Harvard was offered in eivdence:

The way that the Supreme Court approached the ban on interracial marriage is a revealing reminder of the cautious manner that the tribunal typically deals with volatile social controversies. It encouraged other lawgivers to lead the way. In 1948 the Supreme Court of California ruled that that state's ban on interracial marriage violated the federal constitution's Equal Protection Clause. Yet, even after having invalidated de jure segregation in public schooling in Brown v. Board of Education, the U.S. Supreme Court was afraid to touch the emotional issue of interracial familial intimacy. In 1955 the Court considered reviewing a conviction under Virginia's ban, but ultimately decided to duck the issue. During the following decade, a dozen states repealed laws prohibiting interracial marriage and the Civil Rights Movement challenged the white supremacist notions from which these prohibitions stemmed. Only near the end of that remarkable era of struggle against racism was the Supreme Court willing to rule on the (un) constitutionality of anti miscegenation laws. In Loving, the Court struck down Virginia's statute on the grounds that it represented merely an "invidious racial discrimination" and that it unjustifiably deprived the defendants of one of the "basic civil rights of man."

It took the court from 1948 to 1967 to resolve this, and a lot of heavy civil rights lifting had already been done by Congress.

Comments

[BR]

Dear Kat, I've been much pleased by your presence. I experienced the same feeling as you did for about a day shortly after November 6th, looking at passersby and wondering if they were Obama voters till everyone around me could be an Obama voter and then you wrote what you were experiencing in San Francisco.

Then came Veterans' Day and my Operation Return of Decency when the decent Americans of the 30s, 40s, 50s realized they didn't have to wait in the wings anymore and could knock these degraded beings out of their skulls :)

Today I went shopping and I decided to silently greet the light in people, and saw the beauty. An old black lady bent over the canned fruits, shyly telling me how she was going to make peach cobbler. A lady in Indian dress suddenly looking at me as I thought the thought, her eyes full of awareness. The tiny old Chinese gentleman standing in line in front of me, looking at the crumpled dollar and change in his hand as he placed a children's coloring book and crayons. I was thinking it's probably his savings for a present for his grandchild and was about to offer another dollar when suddenly another dollar appeared in his hand.

So, tonight, thinking of you I wanted to say, let's silently welcome the new arrivals :)

[jimmyk]

Ok, it's only 8:30 Sunday morning and I'm already lost at sea. Robin, what's the reference to Brad [DeLong?], Goldin, and Katz? Jane, who's hanging out the with the President and calling for death and torture of troops? Also, I must insist on the finder's fee for the Hitler cats.

Great "Pieces," Clarice, though together with the Daley piece may cause me some sleeplessness tonight. I really hope that judge cracks down on the fraud perpetrated by GM and Barry, but I have my doubts. Any judge who says

"When I approved the sale agreement and entered the sale approval order I mistakenly thought that I was merely saving GM, the supply chain, and about a million jobs."

doesn't give the impression of caring that much about the rule of law.

[jimmyk]

Ok, it's only 8:30 Sunday morning and I'm already lost at sea. Robin, what's the reference to Brad [DeLong?], Goldin, and Katz? Jane, who's hanging out the with the President and calling for death and torture of troops? Also, I must insist on the finder's fee for the Hitler cats.

Great "Pieces," Clarice, though together with the Daley piece may cause me some sleeplessness tonight. I really hope that judge cracks down on the fraud perpetrated by GM and Barry, but I have my doubts. Any judge who says

"When I approved the sale agreement and entered the sale approval order I mistakenly thought that I was merely saving GM, the supply chain, and about a million jobs."

doesn't give the impression of caring that much about the rule of law.

[narciso]

As you pointed out here, rse, these policies 'don't make sense, from a certain point of view'

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/egyptian-constitutional-referendum-to-go-forward-in-a-week-morsi-withdraws-controversial-decree/

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

Its on!

Jodi Kantor and the Times are pimping Hillary for 2016, ugly and all.

[Janet]

who's hanging out the with the President and calling for death and torture of troops?

That is the Korean singer, PSY.

[narciso]

Well if Delong is the naswer to anything, then it's a stupid question, as to the other point we're talking about that pot bellied joker, of the gamgnam style, Psy, invited to the White House,

[sbw]

Beautifully clear, Clarice. Well done. I may quote a graf or three about Gramsci's Detroit.

About I think Americans as a general rule, and this administration in particular, vastly underestimate the preconditions necessary for successful democracy

For this administration, the absence of preconditions for successful democracy is a feature, not a bug. When overthrowing government, lemmings are the power behind the thrown.

[sbw]

hanging out the with the President and calling for death and torture of troops?

I forget, what did Lurch call for?

[narciso]

Well he just compared them, to Genghis Khan, and sat in on meetings, where they contemplated the murder of pro military Senators, later in his Senate career, he abetted the notion that the CIA was deliberately fostering the crack epidemic

[narciso]

As to the 'Three Stooges' in Particular;

http://scholar.harvard.edu/goldin/cgoldin/publications/sustaining-us-economic-growth

[Clarice]

Thanks all.

[peter]

Great pieces, Clarice, and quite a bit to digest there. Your point about the preconditions to democracy, namely, " [t]hese are, as Matthew R.J. Brodsky writes

'a vibrant civil society, state institutions, a strong middle class, respect for the rule of law, concepts of individual liberty, and an independent judiciary.'"

ought to be applied to this country. Do we have a strong middle class, respect for the rule of law, individual liberty or an independent judiciary in the US anymore?

[Clarice]

Jimmyk, I think this non disclosure may be the Judge's way out of the mess he created.

[narciso]

This piece by only two of them, suggests their overall template, just by the abstract;

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9958

[Janet]

a thought at Instapundit -
I suggest, instead, that we abolish withholding entirely so as to ensure that people appreciate just how much they’re paying.

How bout we do this & move tax time to October...just before elections.

[Jim Ryan]

Brilliant, Janet. Very American suggestion.

[jimmyk]

Thanks for the clarifications. It's so hard to keep up with all the craziness, though maybe it's best (for one's own sanity) not to.

[Clarice]

Well, narciso, it's probably because I'm old and cranky but what exactly are the virtues of the present and what distinguishes them from "the virtues of the past"?

[narciso]

Well it is that supreme nonjudgementalism that only doesn't apply with regards to 'bitter clingers, to guns and their religion'

[Chubby]

((the virtues of the present and what distinguishes them from "the virtues of the past))

as one example, in the past homosexuality was not viewed as a moral virtue, today it is, and to call it a vice today is a thought crime

[Robin]

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/12/brad-delong-education-as-a-road-to-greater-equality.html is the blog post that was cited. I went back and read the entire transcript which is worse with constant references to our being in a Gilded Age.

I have never thought much of the Katz/Golden thesis on technology and education but it seems to be seized upon by Dems who care profoundly about education but cannot bear to stare the reality in the face that Dem sabotage is intentional. (With plenty of Reps on board as well unfortunately).

It can be hard to get people to appreciate that having a Harvard degree and a Berkeley professorate does not make what you say correct. It may be profoundly ideological and intended to be the theory you want someone else to implement. With effects they are not likely to foresee.

[Neo]

I knew this guy who worked as a contractor for the Social Security Administration back in the 80's.

He told me that at the end of the year, it they can get their books to close within a few hundred million dollars that they think they are doing just great.

But the better story was about how they would go out to find out what happens when checks aren’t cashed. In one case, they sought out the man and found him at a trailer camp. They knocked on his door and introduced themselves. After talking a bit they asked him if he had received SSA checks for the last few years and he replied “yes.” The asked why he didn’t cash them, he replied that he had “gotten back as much as he had put into the the system and stopped.” Then then said ” no, no,no, you can cash them .. they are yours,” he replied “no, he had gotten back what he put in.” They asked why he kept them then, he replied that he figured eventually that “the SSA would figure it out and come for them.” They then asked what had happened to the checks, he opened a drawer and there they were.

[narciso]

Oh, it's just rife with category error, which apparently Delong imparts to his students, quantity and content never do meet in his world.

[pagar]

Taking more than Madoff did.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2012/12/a-public-service-message-for-americas.html

"Unless you like being ripped off every week, I'd recommend you get involved in returning government to its rightful and proper role, which includes having Washington spend within its means -- like all of us must do to survive."

It's hard to believe someone needs to tell people this.

[Janet]

It's so hard to keep up with all the craziness,

Glasater & my friend on FB said ~

"I'd better get an Obama Phone so I can stay in touch with this madness........."

Hah!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--In defense of Iggy's 10:15, Jane @7:35 did ask for a sneak peek of Clarice's pussy.

Posted by: bgates | December 09, 2012 at 04:06 AM--

In my further defense I didn't post that 10:15 pic. A little to risque for me.
Clarice must be sending her pics around to several guys named Ignatz.
****************************

And to Rich who asked how this got started; I made the facetious comment that 'I will be voted sexiest man alive before Barry is impeached'.
Good ol Hit and Run then took it upon himself to create a poll apparently to determine the likelihood of Barry's impeachment. All I can say is Barry better lawyer up.

The poll of course is a total joke and no one should take it seriously, but if I do ever find the two clowns who voted for 'someone else' you can bet there will be some serious head stompin. :)

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I TOOK IT very seriously Iggy, and was shocked that I couldn't vote more than once!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

That's sweet, Jane. (Ha, a little Velvet Underground allusion there)

If some "Ignatz" posts a randy picture of you like the one last night of clarice it will definitely not be me posting any of those you sent me.
Probably.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Speaking of clarice, excellent Pieces.

Can't remember if you break the ol pistolas out for guys who point out typos but in the paragraph right before your blockquote about Tunisia you mention how things got started in towns in "Libya". I think you meant to say "Tunisia" there.

If I'm mistaken I'd prefer a quick painless shot to the head.

[narciso]

Well it's not a typo, perchance, I think events in Libya, actually began earlier at Ali Salem prison, prior to the Bouazzi event, but the editors didn't spot the error,

[Captain Hate]

Chris Wallace just ended FNS with a tribute to his golden lab, Winston, whom he put down a week ago at the age of 10. I'm a real sap for those types of weepers.

[Ralph L]

There must be more to the atheist cadet story. I believe resigning in his senior year means he has to pay for 3.5 years of tuition or serve 4 years as enlisted. It does sound like he's too much of an agitator for the Army--they may have forgiven the debt to get rid of him.

[narciso]

Ah, I'm sentimental about those stories too, one could make an argument about where events began;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathi_Terbil

[fdcol63]

More proof that Oliver Stone is nothing more than a Communist propagandist:

Oliver Stone’s Ahistorical History Tarnishes Showtime and CBS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRtgjRhTdUw&feature=youtu.be

[narciso]

And from the previous thread, another break in the cave wall;

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/06/monckton-gets-evicted-fro0m-doha-conference/

[narciso]

Well it's in keeping with his other dezinformatiya JFK, that Martin Sheen narrated,
the 9/11 denialism exhibited by Sheen fils, isn't that far of a stretch;

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

I wept too Capn'.

SO is all this Hillary for president talk happening to try and tamp down her Benghazi testimony?

Iggy, All the pix I sent you were fully clothed and from the front, so the world will know if you are making it up.

[narciso]

'Brawndo, electrolytes' lord love a duck;

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/08/married-detroit-judge-allegedly-slept-with-child-support-plaintiff-let-her-pick-ex-husbands-sentence-video/#ixzz2EZFxhqgb

[narciso]

As you see, he hit his Weiner level of stupidity, and kept going right off the cliff;

Now of Corker and Coburn's actions, that's a whole 'nother 'hovercraft full of eels'

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

Bravo Zulu, Clarice. "Gramsci Park" it is.

It certainly seems to me that the non-disclosure in the GM bankruptcy case is actionable, disbarment-level fraud. But no one will be held accountable.

[sbw]

Gosh, DoT, I would think you had standing for a civil suit against the attorneys in the GM case.

[RichatUF]

Clarice-

Great Pieces this morning.

[Clarice]

Thanks.

I bet the seer are already starting to overrun Detroit. Can the elk be far behind?

Oh, give me a home
Where GM used to roam
Where the goons and the crooks now hold sway

[Clarice]

Oh, thank you, Iggy--I am the worst proofreader of my own stuff and the editor missed it, too. I'll notify them pronto. No pistolas for pointing out the error--just XOXO

[narciso]

I missed it the first time, as well, apparently so did many of the commenters, at the AT. I guess since you had Benghazi in mind, although it doesn't detract from Roger Cohen's idiocy.

[narciso]

Well the template was set by that junior Watergate prosecutor, that one of your first clients endured, and Judge John Sirica,

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/jim-letten-new-orleans-us-attorney-resigns.html?_r=0

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

That Detroit judge story is unbelievable. Throw the guy in jail and pave over the city.

[Clarice]

Isn't it. I expect the parties will settle rather than face him again but if he'd only followed hundreds of years of legal precedent instead of some nonsensical "public interest" this would not have happened.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

You're welcome clarice.
One of the few advantages of being confused all the time is that you learn to recognize the few occasions when it's from an external rather an internal cause.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

One of the few advantages of being confused all the time is that you learn to recognize the few occasions when it's from an external rather an internal cause

Now that's brilliant (which tells you a lot about me.)

[maryrose]

Drudge has a post up about Bammy not attending Sunday services anymore. Like we really fell for him being the religious sort. "Snort".

[daddy]

How bout we do this & move tax time to October...just before elections.

Great idea Janet,

But I think in retaliation the other side would send out Welfare bonus checks on Halloween.

[daddy]

So Judge Gerber is saying that the road to Chapter-11 was paved with good intentions.

[moxieman]

Do people have a legal right to violate the laws of nature concerning sex? Is marriage nothing more than a contractual relationship? Can society survive the undermining of a basic principal of societal organizing?
---------------------------
People said the same thing about blacks marrying whites back in the day. You are not harmed by they same-sex marriage, you have not been harmed by same-sex marriage, and you will not be harmed by same-sex marriage.

Now get your government out of the bedrooms of consenting adults who are not asking for the creation of novel societal institutions, only the extension of existing ones -- just like allowing blacks marrying whites.

[boris]

Some have expressed dismay that a constitutional amendment fixing marriage as one man one woman (as in California's proposition 8) would take something of value from same sex couples who have married. Such couples would (implausibly) have the title of their certificate changed from "marriage" to "civil union".

Is their emotional investment in the topic because they "hate" heterosexuals?

Judge Reinhardt wrote "Proposition 8 served no purpose, and had no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gays and lesbians in California".

Okay ... so no then. On that side the emotional investment is not about hate or bigotry or phobia, it's about "status and human dignity".

What about any emotional investment in the natural meaning of marriage? Having that changed to the definition of civil union. What about that value?

If the state should only be concerned with a contractual arrangement, then let the state call that arrangement "civil union" for everybody, and let's vote on that.

[narciso]

Of course, they want public acceptance and if necessary public funding, it's not about private action, we really don't want to know about that!

[Sylvain]

So do i Janet.