Saturday In Connecticut

I am going to note a few details about the horror in Newton. First, the school entrance procedures may not be the issue:

Meanwhile, police told Aiello they were looking at the strong likelihood that the gunman gained entrance to the school by shooting out a window right next to the front door.

Thus, he would have been able to get around the new security system that was put in place earlier this year, which includes a remote control lock and intercom with a video buzzer system to let visitors in.

Vance would only say Saturday morning that Lanza was not voluntarily let into the school, and forced his way in.

Secondly, although early reports mentioned a rifle, apparently the shooter was using handguns:

Authorities found at least three guns at the scene, including a Glock 9mm and a Sig Sauer 9mm — both pistols. The weapons used in the shooting were found in close proximity to the gunman’s body, Vance said.

Also found was a Bushmaster .223 assault rifle, which was discovered in a nearby car.

Maybe I am misreading that, but I am interpreting "three guns at the scene" to include the Bushmaster.

COURAGE: The school principal and school psychologist died as heroes:

Gathered in another room for a 9:30 a.m. meeting were principal Dawn Hochsprung and school therapist Diane Day along with a school psychologist, other staff members and a parent. They were meeting to discuss a second-grader.

“We were there for about five minutes chatting, and we heard Pop! Pop!, Pop!” Day told The Wall Street Journal. “I went under the table.”

But Hochsprung and the psychologist leaped out of their seats and ran out of the room, Day recalled. “They didn’t think twice about confronting or seeing what was going on,” she said. Hochsprung was killed, and the psychologist was believed to have been killed as well.

Bringing brass onions to a gun fight isn't much of a plan but I admire their courage and commitment to duty. Of course, nobody is asking, but courage, commitment, an $870 bullet proof shield and a $20 can of mace might have tipped the balance decisively.

Well. A little defensive equipment and some parent volunteers to monitor the entrances (and metal detectors?) would be steps schools could take next week. Or we could wait for unicorns to ride away with all the scary handuns, shotgus and rifles in America and the world. That would probably reduce random acts of homicidal violence but the meticulous planners (and I would put the Aurora shooter in that category) will find a way. Again, no one is asking but the worst school day in US history was May 18, 1927, the day of the Bath School disaster:

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, four other adults and the bomber himself; at least 58 people were injured. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–11 years of age^[1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in U.S. history and the third-deadliest non-military massacre in U.S. history, behind 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing.

The bomber was school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, 55, who died in a car bomb he set off after he drove up to the school as the crowd gathered to rescue survivors from the burning school.

On the morning of May 18, Kehoe murdered his wife by beating her to death, then set his farm buildings afire. As fire fighters arrived at the farm, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren. Kehoe used a detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of pyrotol which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers started gathering at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and detonated a bomb inside his fragmentation-filled vehicle with his Winchester rifle, killing himself and the school superintendent, and killing and injuring several others. During rescue efforts searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the school's south wing. Kehoe apparently had intended to blow up and destroy the whole school.

PROJECTION: This from Obama is deeply annoying:

“We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics,”

I uderstand that many or most of Obama's stated views are the result of poll reading and political calculation rather than actual conviction. And I have no doubt at all that his current reticence on gun control could 'evolve' towards stricter regulation of the bitter-clingers in a nano-second if he thought he had the votes.

However, just because Obama's positions are a matter of calculation it does not follow that most Americans, or even most Washington "leaders", have reached their view on gun control strictly on the basis of "politics". Obama may believe it or not, but plenty of people take seriously the whole Second Amendment/self defense line of reasoning. And not just because that is where the votes are.

 

Comments

[rse]

Tom-I would guess people all over Connecticut are especially in shock that something so tragic could occur in what appears to be an idyllic setting.

[Buford Gooch]

Let's see, we could blame guns and the gun culture, or we could blame the crazed psychopath and the laws from the left keeping society from dealing with the likes of him. Easy choice. The guns did it.

[narciso]

Magic eightball, would point in that dirextion, rse,

[narciso]

The Huxleyan threapeutic state, must not be questioned;

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/criminal-psychologist-on-sandy-hook-massacre-every-one-of-these-episodes-is-proceeded-by-undiagnosed-mental-illness-video/

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

How do you deal with someone harboring an evil like this when their only pre-crime symptoms are ones that millions of people display without ever going on a rampage?
The unfortunate fact is most of these people don't display behavior sufficient to lock them up prior to their crimes and certainly not sufficient to lock them up forever. Moreover their problems are usually resistant to treatment if you can even get them treated.
As DoT points out there are hundreds of millions of guns in America, so absent a totalitarian police state the nuts could not be denied them and even in the presence of a police state private rampages still occur, although they're dwarfed by the state's own crimes.
There's no solution to evil/insanity. We either acknowledge it will occasionally run amok and try to hem it in as best we can or we compound the crime by hemming in free, rational men too, in a futile attempt to stop the nuts.

[narciso]

We've been through this rodeo before, and almost every candidate, has more flags, then a UN convention,

[Rob Crawford]

Ig, you forget that a totalitarian state is the goal of too many people.

For our own good, of course.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I'm figuring those creeps are on the evil/insane side of the ledger already, Rob.

It's the dopes who sincerely believe state power is benevolent and can coexist with political liberty who are prone to the totalitarian temptation without even knowing it.

[Threadkiller]

"Secretary of State Hilary Clinton Faints, Sustains Concussion"

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2012/dec/15/secretary-state-hilary-clinton-faints-sustains-con/

That's one way to get out of a hearing...

[Clarice]

http://www.michellesmirror.com/2012/12/caution-you-are-now-entering-gun-free.html

[شات عراقنا]

thanks

[rse]

One thing I have been able to document that I am willing to talk about would have had the practical effect of adding to the angst. I mentioned on an earlier thread that CT was early and aggressive in pushing OBE with its affective orientation. Apparently Public Agenda and a New Haven foundation stepped in when the publicity around OBE became great and set up a community organizing template all over CT with the schools as the focus for coming together. Made the public feel like they were being listened to and they became vested in the outcomes. Even if classically terminology used had unappreciated meanings.

PA had training for the stakeholders in participating and consensus that sounds like the Delphi Technique. Bottom line is beyond the tendency of parents to make schools a focus, there have been deliberate efforts that were piloted primarily in CT on a practice of getting everyone together on the schools. Model has now apparently moved on to Chicago.

I suspect all that community organizing through the schools then made the current area focus on the "common good" seem like the natural next step. I found some recent school board minutes in Newtown that one could not speak at a meeting unless you acknowledged that the common good was the priority.

I may know all these terms and practices have a broader meaning and intent but for the parents in that lovely area, everyone in the community has been systematically primed to see everything through the filter of the area schools. A shock anywhere but especially if you believe you are doing all the right things. Together.

[Barbara]

There's no solution to evil/insanity.

There is a way to cope with the evil that we confront, but it's been outlawed in our schools.

I watched an interesting documentary last night about the Amish that I'd seen before. It included a part on a similar shooting at an Amish school several years ago. I was amazed at the way the Amish handled everything. They waited, worried, prayed, and mourned in private. They even forgave. I don't believe that I could have ever done the last, but I couldn't help but admire a people whose faith sustained them in the face of such horrible, senseless evil.

[PaulL]

According to the breathless media and interviews of the killer's ex-classmates, he was a good bet to end the way he did. After all:

1) He wore button-down dress shirts instead of t-shirts

2) He carried his books and notes in a briefcase instead of a backpack

3) He was quiet

4) He was smart

5) His parents were divorced

6) He lived with his mother even though he was 20 years old

The thing to do is round up guys fitting this description and incarcerate them before they can cause any harm.

[PaulL]

And what's with this picture taken seven years ago of the killer?

Is this some new kind of media deal, beginning with Trayvon, of showing criminals when they were innocent youths?

[Chubby]

I remember that no one agreeing with me that the Norwegian mass murderer was an insane crazy whacko. But *everyone* admits the CT *is* a whacko. I really don't get the distinction, whatever it is, that makes one mass killer sane another one a nutjob. Anyone who murders others exept in self defense, or in a military scenario, is a nutjob,imo.

[Rob Crawford]

Is this some new kind of media deal, beginning with Trayvon, of showing criminals when they were innocent youths?

Well, they certainly aren't going to emphasize anything that takes away from their real goal for this story -- using it as a bludgeon to disarm innocent people.

[Chubby]

edited so it makes sense:

I remember no one agreeing with me that the Norwegian mass murderer was an insane crazy whacko. But *everyone* admits the CT mass murderer *is* a whacko. I really don't get the distinction, whatever it is, that makes one mass killer sane, but another one a nutjob. Anyone who kills another human being, except in self defense, or in a military scenario, is a nutjob, imo.

[Chubby]

one more scenario where killing another human being is not an insane act, is when the killing is accidental.

[Rob Crawford]

At least no one around here is blaming video games.

Yes, there are video games with content kids shouldn't see. Those games have a "Mature" rating. If your kids are playing those games, it's not the fault of the people who put "Mature content" on the fricking label. It's your fault for letting your kids play them.

What's that? Your kids play them at other kids' homes? So why do you let them go to those other kids' homes? If the other kids' parents were in the habit of "family movie hour" featuring X-rated movies, would you let your kid go over there? No? So what does that suggest you do about "Mature" video games at other kids' homes?

(And, yeah, kids will get hold of them anyway. But not when their very young, and it won't be with your approval. If you don't think your approval matters, think back -- even when you thought the least of your parents, didn't you still want to stay on their good side?)

[Chubby]

re video games, how old do you have to be to qualify for "mature" content? last I heard, the "child" was 20 years old, not exactly a young child.

[LouP]

I'm somewhat surprised that no one has mentioned a really sick culture as a possible causation of these recent shootings. Consider:

We are being constantly bombarded by more and more realistic video games whose sole objective
is to shoot, or kill, as many people as possible. Hollywood, of course, dishes out its own version of this madness, but there the participation is strictly limited to passive observation. What kind of society and culture condones the virtual killing of people as fun?

And consider who the "gamers" tend to be. Adolescent or young adult males, who are often introverted (otherwise known as "geeks"). Consider the rise of these mass killings with the availability of video games - coincidental?

Add in some other factors, like anti-social phsychological tendencies, etc., and I'll contend you have all the ingredients that might explain quite a few of the recent rash of mass killings (which are not all correlated with guns, as the killing mechanisms in video games are not either.)

Whether video games had anything to do with Adam Lanza's deeds I cannot say. But they certainly do not contribute to deterring such things. We live in a very sick society and culture if many of our young males spend so much time with such games, and nobody sees anything wrong with it.

[LouP]

RobC: interesting that we hit on the same subject at the same time, though I'm not sure exactly what your message was; we seem to be on opposite sides of this issue.

You don't even have to play the games - however they are marked - to get the message; the recent spate of pre-Christmas advertisements on TV provides all the gore that exemplifies the "virtue" of the game.

[jorod]

Most gun crimes occur in socialist countries.... by governments...against their own citizens...

[Clarice]

http://news.investors.com/121412-637171-26-states-decline-obamacare-exchange-administrative-nightmare-seen.aspx?p=full

More headaches for the administration.

[bgates]

At least no one around here is blaming video games.

4 minutes early.

I wonder if there would be a market for a game in which the player has the point of view of a principal or mall security guard, and must maneuver through scenes of carnage to confront the ugly, friendless, sniveling joke of a loser who the game makes clear is not some powerful terrifying monster but just a pathetic, ineffectual little excuse for a man incapable of doing anything beyond emulating the lethality of certain strains of bacteria. If there's anything to the idea that these psychos are getting the idea from games that killing sprees make them heroes, use the games to teach them it won't work.

[Janet]

A bit on Hillary not testifying -

"The Senate Foreign Relations Committee said it won't hear from Ms. Clinton as planned at a Thursday morning hearing into the Sept. 11 attack against a U.S. diplomatic outpost in Benghazi, Libya, that killed four Americans, including the U.S. ambassador. She also was scheduled to testify that afternoon before the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Ms. Clinton's aides on Saturday informed the Senate committee chairman, Senator John Kerry, about her health, and the Massachusetts Democrat “insisted that given her condition, she could not and should not appear” as planned,..."

How sketchy is THIS!

[NJ Jan]

The young kids who play video games casually with their friends are one thing. However, there is another group. Young men in their 20's who are serious gamers. A friend has a son who fits in this category. He is a loner and is socially awkward and doesn't really have friends. When the recent storm hit, he was upset and mad that all the attention was on people losing their homes and/or lives when the important story was gamers had no power and were cut off from their games. These games become real life to these guys. He scares the carp out of me.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

At least no one around here is blaming video games.

I actually heard someone say last night that the guy never shot a gun except in video games - and out of 28 people shot, only one wasn't killed.

The guy doesn't sound like an apparent risk to me. He sounds like and hyper-intense asperger's guy who had no social skills and was undoubtedly left in his own world because he couldn't make it in the real world.

I know a kid like that. He's the son of some friends who have been dealing with these issues since his birth. He's been in therapy since he could walk. His parents have done absolutely everything possible to help. He's been mainstreamed. He has a college education; he is a nice kid. He is also an alcoholic (like both grandparents) who has been in rehab several times, but because of his other issues can't quite make it work. He is obsessive about conservative issues, wants to have a gun because it is his second amendment right and thinks Obama is destroying the country.

His parents are liberals.

He is now pushing 30, still living at home, and pretty much unable to work. I've spent the last 10 years wondering if his parents will ever get any relief because it is an amazing burden. Since he is over 18, no one can put him in an institution, and frankly he is too sane to be institutionalized.

I bet Adam and he had a lot in common.

[Rob Crawford]

Consider the rise of these mass killings with the availability of video games - coincidental?

Consider the rise of these mass killings with the availability of iPhones -- coincidental?

Consider the rise of these mass killings with your increasing age -- coincidental?

Consider the rise of these mass killings with the fall of the Soviet Union -- coincidental?

Consider the rise of these mass killings with the number of police procedurals on TV -- coincidental?

Consider the rise of these mass killings with the popularity of organic diets -- coincidental?

Previous generations played violent games, and used a tool more powerful than any computer -- their imaginations. Heck, this guy's old enough that he could have served in combat in the military -- seen and experienced violence in reality, not through a poorly rendered image on a screen. And there are teenagers who hunt and help slaughter livestock and part out game; that's more blood and practical experience in taking apart a living being than this guy would ever have from a video game.

Wetting yourself over video games is no different than wetting yourself over kids playing cowboys and Indians, or cops and robbers, or the equally idiotic panic over Dungeons and Dragons from the 80s.

There are some people who are sick, and some who are evil, and some who are sick and evil. In a country with 300 million people, where we've given up on trying to quarantine the sick and evil people, this is going to happen. The tools and toys of the sane and law-abiding are not to blame.

[Rob Crawford]

I actually heard someone say last night that the guy never shot a gun except in video games - and out of 28 people shot, only one wasn't killed.

I'd bet that has more to do with the fragility of his targets than any skills he picked up in video games.

The mechanical skills needed to play a video game are completely distinct from those needed to shoot a gun. Sitting on your behind twiddling your fingers will not turn you into a marksman, and most video games make it much easier to hit than it is in reality.

[Janet]

I agree with LouP....although I would say it's video games, movies, TV, books, music, the internet...
so much of it is super violent & sexual. It HAS to have an effect.
...and I gotta say that there is no way a parent can guard against ALL of that(& I was a stay at home mom that looked into things & was fairly strict)....unless you totally withdraw from society.
You can't read every book before they do (the tween books are REALLY terrible). The advertising around them on even ad signs in the malls are super sexual. With parental guards on the computer a kid can still see all kinds of trash just on Google images.....or friends can forward pics & videos (we had that happen). There is NO WAY a parent can totally guard their kid if society is drowning in this violent sexual crap. It is everywhere.

[LouP]

RobC: Then what is the answer? We've had access to killing mechanisms, and we've had mentally impaired people since mankind first walked the earth. But it has been only in fairly recent times that we've had a spate of young males that for reasons we refuse to ponder who go into schools and malls and theaters, etc., and initiate senseless mass murders of people they don't even know. I contend that there's a causation that has only arisen in the last 20 years or so that can explain it.

[gmax]

Actually I think its pretty obvious that most of these mass killing evildoers, fully intend to kill themselves before its all over, so its all about becoming infamous. So if we want to be effective, starve the fire of oxygen. No coverage of these evil events. If we are going to intrude on our liberties, I vote to intrude on the media's right to publish this stuff not my right to carry.

Years ago, deeply troubled individuals were institutionalized to protect society and them from themselves. Its damn near impossible to do today, and again if we are going to intrude on liberties, how about locking up the dark brooding loner with an explosive temper types and leaving me the hell alone.

[pagar]

"and the laws from the left keeping society from dealing with the likes of him."

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/12/14/michelle-suggests-republicans-liars/

http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-moving-to-criminalize-criticism-of-islam/

Based on their prior actions I would not want to give leftists any additional ability to lock up any Americans.

Here are actions taken by bureaucrats that might endanger freedom.

Thirty-one percent of claims filed with the Veterans Affairs Department are likely to be denied — and 60 percent of those denials will be erroneous.
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2012/12/a-horrifying-preview-of-obamacare-6-in.html

[boris]

"No coverage of these evil events"

We know the MSM can desensationalize certain events. This type of event, like Abu Ghraib, advances their agenda, and will be sensationalized instead.

[Rob Crawford]

It HAS to have an effect.

It "HAS" to? Who says?

But it has been only in fairly recent times that we've had a spate of young males that for reasons we refuse to ponder who go into schools and malls and theaters, etc., and initiate senseless mass murders of people they don't even know.

Fallacy of misleading vividness. These events are rare; in a country of 300 million the tails of the bell curve go WAY WAY out before the odds of a monster disappears. With increasing population they'll occur more frequently, and with increasing news saturation not a single one of them will escape notice.

Pre-industrial life was nastier, more violent, more gore-soaked than any of us can appreciate. Yet the exposure to all that in reality did not create generations of monsters that you believe exposure to it in fantasy will.

Where were the waves of mass murders after WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, as the veterans who were exposed to horrors we cannot imagine came home?

Why haven't we seen spates of killings by those who develop these games? They're exposed to much, much, much more of the material than any player ever will be.

And if your argument is based on "well, there are certain sensitive individuals", then why not focus on dealing with those individuals than on people who have done nothing to harm anyone?

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

But it has been only in fairly recent times that we've had a spate of young males that for reasons we refuse to ponder who go into schools and malls and theaters, etc., and initiate senseless mass murders of people they don't even know

I suspect one begets the next. Timothy MCVeigh, the Colombine shooters, Gabby Giffords,the Aurora movie guy, the Oregon Mall. I'd not be the least bit surprised if there is one more before the year is over.

Every time it happens the outrage diminishes a little. We get more used to it - less shocked. The world doesn't end. And then they happen more and more frequently.

I'd blame bad parenting - but my friends are wonderful parents, their daughter is proof, and they have done everything humanly possible to raise their son well.

[pagar]

Here is a government agency making a decision now.

http://www.allamericanblogger.com/24712/tsa-refuses-to-let-mother-comfort-crying-wheel-chair-bound-daughter-video/

What happens when the leftists decide who should be moving around freely and who should be held for further questioning.

In the LUN is detailed the following TSA -American citizen exchange in another incident.

"Pretty standard, and mirrored by my experience last evening upon returning to the U.S. and rechecking in at the Fort Lauderdale security. It was more exciting this time, after I made it known that I could not see my purse for a full ten minutes while I waited for the TSA to decide to provide a “female assist.” After overhearing other TSA agents ridiculing me, I attempted to point out where this was going on to the supervisor who had, by this point, been sent over to further enforce TSA separation-from-property-procedures. When asked which TSA agents were ridiculing me, I attempted to indicate this to the Fort Lauderdale TSA supervisor."

"At which point, the TSA supervisor told me I was not allowed to point".

American citizens told by their own government--You are not allowed to point"

This is insane.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

This is interesting: CT tried to pass this law recently and civil liberty groups got it killed. It's unclear if it would have applied.

Assisted Outpatient Treatment Laws
Print

SUMMARY: Forty-four states permit the use of assisted outpatient treatment (AOT), also called outpatient commitment. AOT is court-ordered treatment (including medication) for individuals who have a history of medication noncompliance, as a condition of their remaining in the community. Studies and data from states using AOT prove that it is effective in reducing the incidence and duration of hospitalization, homelessness, arrests and incarcerations, victimization, and violent episodes. AOT also increases treatment compliance and promotes long-term voluntary compliance, while reducing caregiver stress. The six states that do not have AOT are Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Nevada, and Tennessee.

[Chubby]

((I actually heard someone say last night that the guy never shot a gun except in video games - and out of 28 people shot, only one wasn't killed.))

I read today that his mom was an avid gun collector and for recreation she took her kids to target practice, so apparently he did have some real life experience with firearms.

[Janet]

Yet the exposure to all that in reality did not create generations of monsters that you believe exposure to it in fantasy will.

That might prove my point. Reality shows that the violence & deviant sex isn't "cool" at all. It is sad, full of disease, broken lives, finality. Fantasy violence & sexual behavior is presented as "cool" & edgy. You get redos. They don't get STDs on Friends. Rachel doesn't have AIDS. They don't show the the Charlie Sheen character in 3 1/2 Men waking up from a drunken stupor covered in feces & urine. You try level 3 in the game AGAIN.

[narciso]

So, that fellow, Ethan Chorin, who JM brought to our attention, and I linked on my blog's , has his own tome 'Exit the Colonel' and there are some interesting statements, in it, from Bin Qummu, who issued a statement condemning the Americans, he does mention Bel Hadj who is the big fish, in the network, but both are almost oversights.

[Clarice]

AOT looks like the wisconsin plan I posted about last night. Looks like since I last looked at the issue, it's caught on. Good!

[narciso]

It's curious that they are always dismantling the system;

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/far-left-groups-defeated-connecticut-mental-health-protection-laws-just-months-before-shooting/

[narciso]

Sorry, I missed that Jane, there is only one 'narrative' that is permitted;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/15/Media-Sets-Gun-control-narrative

[jimmyk]

Unfortunately these kinds of horrific acts have occurred in a wide range of cultures and eras. Since they are fortunately rare (except in the Muslim world), it's almost impossible to pinpoint cause and effect. Just the last few years have seen attacks in Norway, China, and the US. The Bath school murderer in 1927 didn't have legal abortion or video games, which isn't to say that those things don't matter, just that there aren't easily identifiable cultural markers. The best we can do is to try to protect ourselves by identifying and isolating dangerous people, and and having enough armed people around to catch the rest who slip through.

[jimmyk]

Incidentally, has anyone read this?

The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker. I don't know about his analysis, but as a factual matter he claims there has been a huge downward trend in violence over millenia. I'm not sure how well the claim holds up over the past 1000 years or so. I think McNeill argued otherwise, though he may have been looking only at wars.

This WSJ piece sums it up, though I'm not sure it's available through the paywall:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html

[Pops]

Lets be very clear about one thing, if these children had been killed in the womb six years ago, the media and left would be defending their deaths. Even if the same killer shot 22 women in the abdomen killing their children, the left would argue that that wasn't murder of a child.
When 122 children are killed each moth in Conneticutt through abortion, the media and the left don't call for planned parenthood to account and justify the mass slaughter. Abortion kills more children then any other act of mankind, and it is celebrated by the media.

[Pops]

To be further clear, these school shootings have lower numbers of death and wounded when a bystander has a gun and uses it.

[AliceN]

Well, the culture is sick. We've eradicated shame. We've eradicated any way to remove fringe Individuals from society, and have dismantled the guardrails that kept the marginal on the straight and narrow.

The Oregon guy had tons of friends, had recently had a job, a going away party by his boss. He apparently was embarrassed to admit his plans had fallen apart, or spent weeks deliberately deceiving everyone. His moral development was the issue: he didn't try to kill friends and loved ones, only anonymous strangers. That means he wasn't crazy, just immoral.

Was Lanza crazy? Or just morally stunted? Unknown for now. But the morally stunted need to be shown a level of wrath that would Affect those they do care about, a shame and taboo so great they would not subject their family to it. The crazy must be removed from society.

[maryrose]

Pops:
I agree with you.
I have been unable to post on this topic until now because it is so upsetting to me.
School security must be of prime importance.
Mace and protective gear must now be standard equipment as TM has suggested.
Lock down must occur immediately.
Mentally ill people need to be institutionalized for as long as necessary. I speak from experience as my mother was in the hospital on 2 occasions while I was growing up for extended periods of time. I am also familiar with the type of young man Jane is referring to and will note that a young woman can also suffer from this illness.
WRT Hillary. I knew she wouldn't testify.
I will continue to pray for the remaining family members of the victims whose lives have been ruined irrevocably. My tears are for them and their tremendous loss.

[Kevin B]

"Amok originated from the Malay word mengamuk,[4] which roughly defined means “to make a furious and desperate charge”"

"Amok typically takes place in a well populated or crowded area. Amok episodes of this kind normally end with the attacker being killed by bystanders or committing suicide"

"An early Western description of the practice appears in the journals of Captain James Cook, a British explorer, who encountered amok firsthand in 1770 during a voyage around the world. Cook writes of individuals behaving in a reckless, violent manner, without cause and "indiscriminately killing and maiming villagers and animals in a frenzied attack.""

From Wiki on running amok, which has been happening for ever.

[maryrose]

AliceH
I agree that the emotion of shame has gone the way of the horse and buggy. An incident reflecting badly on your family is not even considered. Lying and cheating are for getting ahead and if you don't you are sucker or a loser .

[narciso]

It goes to the matter of the soul, or if you wish, the superego, this emphasis on spirituality that rse has pointed out, somehow doesn't approach this main issue,

[Jim Eagle]

A little OT, but Mrs. JiB, Frederick and I went to see The Hobbit this afternoon. Everyone should!

Peter Jackson has to be the most imaginative director on the planet. Spielberg and Lucas can take a back seat as far as I am concerned. His portfolio of works with the Lord of the Rings trilogy and now The Hobbit are Impressive. No one does it as expansive, so scenic, so intense and so actionable has he does. The scenery, the cinematography, the settings, the makeup and creative costuming, the CGI, and the music merge in a mind blowing way to give you the impression you are part of the fantasy, the chase, the fights, the treks and the moments of pure adventure.

In the words of Frederick "it was great". Go see it.

There are scenes and acts that are so special I will not expose them but you must go see this movie.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Hillary won't testify, they will refuse to release the whole report and any talk of Benghazi will be sacrilegious because we should be talking about guns - well unless the guns are transported to killers by the Attorney General - which apparently we are also not allowed to talk about - and apparently there is a subpoena which no judge has acted on.

I swear my first thought this morning about the school shooting was the administration arranged it to divert attention. Then I remembered with the liberal media is there so the administration doesn't need to divert attention. The media will make sure important things will never be addressed.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I don't know about his analysis, but as a factual matter he claims there has been a huge downward trend in violence over millenia.--

I'll stack the 20th century up against whatever he's got.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Can you imagine if Jane said the Administration killed OBL to cover up a phony birth cert from four days earlier and divert media attention from a 9th Circuit eligibility hearing the next day?

Murder of schoolchildren to hide Clinton is easier to believe, I guess.

[Cue unrelated remark followed by the remarker hiding behind a skirt]

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

TK,

I'm glad you are back but I insist you stop whining.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Is whining about perceived whining considered ironic?

[matt]

Jane; let's talk about the guns used to kill Ambassador Stevens. Let's talk about the 2,700 guns ATF facilitated to the drug cartels through Fast & Furious.

But seriously, some of us here talk of a lack of shame, but in reality it is the replacement of a 5,000 year old moral system with...nothing.

Nietzsche was a sham. Sartre and existentialism have led us here. Peggy Lee sung back in the early 70's "is that all there is?" For many people this is their day to day reality. The rest of us deal with their sins when they go over the line.

The reasons for these shooters and stabbers and runners amok range from social rejection to mental disease to a complete lack of an ethical anchor.We create Frankenstein's monsters and then wonder why they are monsters.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"Can you imagine if Jane said the Administration killed OBL to cover up a phony birth cert from four days earlier and divert media attention from a 9th Circuit eligibility hearing the next day?"

The killing of OBL had a very valid purpose all its own.

The hearing was recorded and can be viewed by any and all who are interested in it.

[Jim Eagle]

Oh, please enough of the murders in CT as a jolt to American consciousness of guns and violence.

I give you Chicago: "The city is statistically more lethal to Americans than war-torn Afghanistan, where 271 Americans have died this year."

You want to talk about gun control and why so many black men kill other black men? Then turn off your TV's and idiots like Andrea Mitchell and consider Chicago has tougher gun laws than CT. has. But not a tear has been shed by the first Black President over that particular form of racial violence.

[Threadkiller (Get off your couch and leave the GOP!)]

Since DoT still misses the point I will continue my break.

[Chubby]

((But seriously, some of us here talk of a lack of shame, but in reality it is the replacement of a 5,000 year old moral system with ... nothing.))

that's it in a nutshell

people see morality as restraint instead of protection

[jimmyk]

I'm not sure we create them, Matt. But we don't do enough to quarantine them and defend ourselves.

[gmax]

Chicago has tougher gun laws than CT. has.

Chicago until very recently was violating the Constitutional rights of its citizenry to bear arms. So one does wonder how all those young black kids end up with guns, doesn't one? What was accomplished except to assuage some liberal do gooders self image as having done something about all the violence?

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Jimmy, Are/were you in Oz? I want to hear all about it. I love that place. Where did you go?

[jimmyk]

Still in Oz, Jane. Returning Monday morning. Just Sydney--beach, downtown, right now at the zoo. One of my fav cities, but very pricey these days. Aroud $4 for a cup of coffee.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"Since DoT still misses the point I will continue my break."

The point I take--very strongly--is that there is far, far less public interest in hearing another Orly Taitz birther argument than a few people seem to believe.

[rse]

Red is back from college finishing finals quickly. She said yesterday was a very dogmatic day on campus with some seeing gun control as the clear answer and brooking no discussion. Vs those with more of a history background with a not the solution attitude.

I imagine at many schools with less diversity ideologically this may have been a slam dunk.

I am being good but I am having a real hard time with the level of active misleading going on in ed schools on the background of what they are being naively led to push. I have enough of the blueprints and declarations to know a whole lot of people know they have been deliberately playing with fire for a long time.

And they are ramping it up and taking off the governor. If we cannot bear to consider that some of this is intentional psychologizing of the classroom because it is too awful to contemplate, there is no stopping it.

[Steve Diamond]

The Bath incident was apparently motivated by a move to raise property taxes.

There is no "individual" right to "bear arms" protected by the Constitution. That is urban myth a result of slipshod scholarship by some of my colleagues in academia. And an interpretation of quite recent vintage that appears a result of the massive influx of money into academia and politics by the gun industry.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Jimmy,

That's my favorite zoo in the world. (Not that I have been to too many) I have the best picture of a tiger I took there. Did you go to Bondi Beach?

When I was there in 2002 the exchange rate was 2 to 1. What is it now.

[narciso]

The reaction just to the word, 'gun' is like the Eloi's to the air raid sirens of thousands of years earlier, in the Time Machine, that Herald
piece, by my paisan Fabiola Santiago, is a case in point,

[Janet]

Today is Saturday. Why can't Hillary testify on Thursday?
What the hell is going on with our government?

Congress should say it is NOT A REQUEST, it is a DEMAND. Get over here & testify.
She has hidden behind Susan Rice already. Hillary Clinton should have been on all those "news" shows after Benghazi.

"She is being monitored by doctors and is recovering at home. She was never hospitalized, Reines said."

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

There is no "individual" right to "bear arms" protected by the Constitution. That is urban myth a result of slipshod scholarship

IIRC you are arguing about the placement of a comma - which IMO is the slipshod in the argument.

[Porchlight]

NewTOWN not NewTON.

Come on, TM, it's only a few miles north and east of you. The poor town has gone through enough without being misspelled - by other Nutmeggers, yet.

[Porchlight]

Anyone who kills another human being, except in self defense, or in a military scenario, is a nutjob, imo.

This seems sensible on its face but is highly problematic. By this definition no killer can be sane. Do you really think that is true? Is a gangbanger that gets pissed off and pulls the trigger on his drug dealer competition actually clinically insane? Should he be able to claim insanity and get off? Is the angry husband who plots to kill his cheating wife and her lover, and does so, in all cases, insane?

No. There is evil in the world. It cannot all be mental illness.

[boris]

'There is no "individual" right to "bear arms" protected by the Constitution. That is urban myth a result of slipshod scholarship by some of my colleagues in academia.'

The words of the 2nd in plain English seem clear enough to me. If academics and careful scholarship are required to see the emperor's interpretation then the text of the constitution is irrelevant. Funny which side that benefits.

[narciso]

Phillip 'Reset' Reines, the most hacktacular of all hacks, not working for Chuckie Schumer, As to the main point, from the 'Usual Suspects, 'the greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was
convincing those he doesn't exist,'

[matt]

We just had an incident less than a mile from my home. Some guy who lost his job went into the parking lot of the local Macy's and fired shots in the air. Massive police response and they have him, but the mall was/is locked down. there are 3-4 helo's hovering in the neighborhood.

There also a difficulty for many people o recognize what is real versus their fantasies. After all the fastest growing belief set in the UK now is Jedi, which as far as I know has no belief set. It is truly reductio ad absurdem.

Where have all the grown ups gone?

[Rocco]

And here I thought the bill of rights was designed to prevent government from invading the rights of the individual. Does the bill of rights grant power to the government or to the individual?

[Janet]

from the CNN link -
""Secretary Clinton's team contacted Senator Kerry this morning to inform them of the Secretary's concussion. Senator Kerry was relieved to hear that the Secretary is on the mend, but he insisted that given her condition, she could not and should not appear on Thursday as previously planned, and that the nation's best interests are served by the report and hearings proceeding as scheduled with senior officials appearing in her place," "

John F'n Kerry is a traitor AND a Dr.. Who knew?

[Steve Diamond]

Well, Boris, Scalia and others would disagree with you about the ease of interpreting "plain English" but unless you think the Constitution is a "living" document then in fact it is necessary to analyze terms like "keep and bear arms" carefully in their proper historical context. An excellent example of careful scholarship in this regard can be found at LUN (by Garry Wills).

[Rick Ballard]

Porchlight,

The use of homicide as one tactic in resolution of territorial disputes between tribes of savages in Chicago is coldly rational. Both victims and assailants have very low value to the tribal chieftains and arrest and conviction rates are precisely what one would expect in the prog run sewer from which Obama emerged. There is no 'madness' involved whatsoever - just rational evaluation of risk and reward with the street value of a young black life only slightly higher than the bounty Planned Parenthood pays for killing black babies in the womb.

[Clarice]

Steve, take it up with the Supreme Ct and Posner and the US Ct of Appeals for the Dist of Columbia. It's a lost argument. The Second Amendment is as likely to be repealed or amended as contraceptive sales are to be banned ad Roe v Wade to be overturned.

[narciso]

Should we quarter troops in our homes, as well Steve, hasn't happened in more than 200 hundred years,

[Clarice]

If you believe the Hillary story, SCAM, Ltd, Inc, et Cie would love to talk to yo. Please transmit to us your name, address, phone number and your credit card no. so we can verify you are who you say you are.

[narciso]

Evil is predictable, circumstances that show a person's character under these conditions, is more valuable,

http://twitchy.com/2012/12/15/sandy-hook-principal-dawn-hochsprung-died-trying-to-overtake-shooter/

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Dot,

Are you planning to oppose Kerry's nomination? In writing? You do that as well as anyone.

Clarice,

What can we look forward to tomorrow? I am hoping you wrote it before Ct.

[narciso]

Yet another example, like that Rumanian professor who was the hero at VT,

http://twitchy.com/2012/12/15/hero-vicki-soto-27-saved-first-graders-from-shooter-grieving-sisters-honor-her-sacrifice/

[Steve Diamond]

It was only "decided" quite recently to end our longstanding view of the 2d amendment as militia based (in the misguided Heller decision).

The Supreme Court has made mistakes in the past that have been corrected and that can and should happen again.

In fact, some conservatives used to agree with the "militia" view and formed independent militias in order to claim second amendment protection. Of course, we have a legitimate militia - the National Guard. Any gun ownership outside of the Guard is not protected by the 2d amendment and is instead subject to state police powers to protect health and safety.

[Janet]

Well...if our federal government tries to ban guns from American citizens while arming the damn nutcases of the arab spring....that'll be the limit.
Rocco has it just right. And here I thought the bill of rights was designed to prevent government from invading the rights of the individual.

[narciso]

that is what is known as a 'negative liberty' janet, what the government cannot do to you,

[Porchlight]

Exactly, Rick.

Steve Diamond - whose longstanding view of the 2nd amendment as militia-based?

Does the bill of rights grant power to the government or to the individual?

Neither. The power rests with the people. That is God-given; the Bill of Rights does not grant that power. The Bill of Rights is a list of specific things the government cannot do to the people.

The rest of the Constitution is a grant of power from the people to the government.

[narciso]

Funny how 'there shall make no law, abridging the freedom of speech' went by the wayside in the 30s, with the FCA, same with Wilson and the Sedition Act, seems to be a bug with progressives,

[Steve Diamond]

Porchlight: see the LUN above and the dissent in Heller v. DC LUN

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

Steve, your argument was presented in the Supreme Court and rejected. Deal with it however you must, but don't show up here and tell us that the law is not what the Court has said it is.

Try to lick your wounds with a little more dignity.

[Frau Steingehirn]

“We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics,”

I'm waiting for the president to say this about what he's done to the country and especially the debt-tragedy that's being placed on future American adults.