The Paper Of Record Describes Gun Control Ideas

Here is the NY Times reacting to the NRA ideas on school shootings:

Mr. LaPierre offered no support for any of the proposals made in the last week, like banning assault rifles or limiting high-capacity ammunition...

Geez, I thought the idea was to ban high magazine clips. Well, layer upon layer of editor and fact-checker can't be wrong.

SPECIOUS AND ARGUABLY FALSE: The Times editors blast the NRA and all its works, but this argument troubles me:

In the 62 mass-murder cases over 30 years examined recently by the magazine Mother Jones, not one was stopped by an armed civilian.

Let's link to the fine effort by Mother Jones and note this point - a "mass shooting" by their definition requires four or more victims. Which is fair enough, but it means that if an incident is nipped more or less in the bud it never qualifies as a mass shooting.

Which takes us to the ambiguous circumstances in the Clackamas Mall just a few days ago. A gunman killed two people and then himself; a concealed handgun carrier eyeballed him, claims the gunman saw him and his weapon, and shot himself sortly thereater.

I haven't tracked down a report (based, for example, on mall videotapes) confirming or refuting that. But even if the concealed carrier was the hero, he wouldn't break into the Mother Jones data base since he succeeded too early for the gunman to achieve "mass killer" status.

And Mother Jones includes this, which I guessed the Times editors missed:

There was one case in our data set in which an armed civilian played a role. Back in 1982, a man opened fire at a welding shop in Miami, killing eight and wounding three others before fleeing on a bicycle. A civilian who worked nearby pursued the assailant in a car, shooting and killing him a few blocks away (in addition to ramming him with the car). Florida authorities, led by then-state attorney Janet Reno, concluded that the vigilante had used force justifiably, and speculated that he may have prevented additional killings. But even if we were to count that case as a successful armed intervention by a civilian, it would account for just 1.6 percent of the mass shootings in the last 30 years.

Again, its ambiguous. Mother Jones does cite other incidents of civilian involvement that go awry. But among their links is this from Mother Jones describing the problem with a "four dead victims" rule:

Four years ago today, Dunklin was attending a Sunday morning program at his local church when a man entered and opened fire with a shotgun, fatally wounding two people and injuring seven others.

...The violence stopped short of even worse carnage thanks to a little luck and the heroic intervention of several church goers among the crowd of about 200.

So that is counted as neither a mass shooting nor a successful civilian intervention (the shooter was tackled when his gun jammed.) I am not sure the papeer of record diligently availed themselves of the relevant research, despite citing it.

As to the merits of the NRA proposal, the Times report was that Mr. LaPierre was emphasizing retired cops and reservists as the primary source of civilian volunteers. That sounds crazy to the Times, but not to me.

Well, I am firmly muddled on this. If schools were as safe as Fort Knox, the odds are that crafty yet crazy killers would simply switch targets. If killing school kids is the goal, maybe he would take a page from "Dirty Harry" and hijack a school bus. Or he could target a mall, or a church, or an old-age home.

Then again, maybe we feel a greater societal obligation to kids in a public school than to folks headed off to a privately owned mall. All that said, the solution(s) we adopt will depend on how the problem is defined. Putting armed guards in schools might (might!) reduce school shootings, but that reduction might occur simply because crazy (but carefully planning) killers pick easier targets. I am not sure how much of a win for the good guys that really is.

Meanwhile, we continue to hope that the newspaper calling for a limitation on high capacity ammunition can help contribute to building a factual foundation for this national debate.

 

 

Comments

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

A delicious irony of all this is that the "incorporation doctrine" that lefties have loved, as it tears down federalism, has now been rammed down their throats regarding the 2nd Amendment with McDonald.

Another irony which will not be quite so delicious will be the sudden total disregard for stare decisis the left will discover it now possesses should a conservative leave the bench and Heller be revisited.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Geez, I thought the idea was to ban high magazine clips. Well, layer upon layer of editor and fact-checker can't be wrong.--

"High-capacity ammunition" is what one puts in high magazine clips, Tom.
Get with the program.

[henry]

Gee Ignatz, I thought "high capacity ammunition" was some sort of intelligent bullet that would outsmart the enemy. Now you tell me it is just stuff you put in a high capacity magazine (the New Yorker?).

[Have Blue]

The lady who stopped the church shooting? I saw it reported that she was a "security guard" hired by the church but then saw the notion floated that she was either a off duty professional who happened to be carrying or an informal volunteer, and the notion that she was hired by the church officially was created by the press for the purpose of denying the notion that an armed citizen was responsible.

[Have Blue]

The school shooting that was stopped by a professor who retrieved a handgun from his vehicle?

[Pops]

Coulter

Gun control laws were originally promulgated by Democrats to keep guns out of the hands of blacks. This allowed the Democratic policy of slavery to proceed with fewer bumps and, after the Civil War, allowed the Democratic Ku Klux Klan to menace and murder black Americans with little resistance.

(Contrary to what illiterates believe, the KKK was an outgrowth of the Democratic Party, with overlapping membership rolls. The Klan was to the Democrats what the American Civil Liberties Union is today: Not every Democrat is an ACLU'er, but every ACLU'er is a Democrat. Same with the Klan.)

In 1640, the very first gun control law ever enacted on these shores was passed in Virginia. It provided that blacks -- even freemen -- could not own guns.

Chief Justice Roger Taney's infamous opinion in Dred Scott v. Sandford circularly argued that blacks could not be citizens because if they were citizens, they would have the right to own guns: "[I]t would give them the full liberty," he said, "to keep and carry arms wherever they went."

With logic like that, Republicans eventually had to fight a Civil War to get the Democrats to give up slavery.

Alas, they were Democrats, so they cheated.

After the war, Democratic legislatures enacted "Black Codes," denying black Americans the right of citizenship -- such as the rather crucial one of bearing arms -- while other Democrats (sometimes the same Democrats) founded the Ku Klux Klan.

For more than a hundred years, Republicans have aggressively supported arming blacks, so they could defend themselves against Democrats.

[Have Blue]

The guy in the clock tower on a university campus. Of the two men who went up the tower after him, one was law enforcement and the other was a civilian.

[Have Blue]

Does Mother Jones point out that of all the mass shootings in the last (howevermany) years all but one were committed in designated "gunfree" zones. Such designation being made either by government or by private concerns.

[Pops]

Read Coulter piece:

Mother Jones and NYT are LIARS!

http://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2012/12/19/we-know-how-to-stop-school-shootings-n1470804

Particularly second page

[Pops]

So if we have the 'assault weapons' ban and the magazine clip ban, then we can remove all armed security from all network offices, all government facilities, etc. etc.

[Have Blue]

TomM - Agree on the Clackamas Mall shooting. Would like to see a report from the LLEO that confirms the story. But either the story is true, the shooter had a major change of heart for some reason, or the motive was more personal and he had achieved his aim in killing the one or the other of the two victims he did kill.

[Pops]

What should be pointed out to these so called journalists:

When a drunk driver kills someone, I never hear the left call for an alcohol ban.

When someone runs somebody over, I never hear of a car ban.

I never here them ask AAA to come on air and defend the continued private right to have cars.

I never hear them ask GM to defend their killing products.

In fact, illegal aliens kill far more Americans and far more children then guns, yet the same liberals argue that we should celebrate them being in the country.

[Pops]

La Pierre' should have called for a 10 dollar tax on all first person shooter video games and a 10 tax on all r-rated moves to fund local police manpower to monitor local schools.

And I just love the people who claim movies and videos have no affect on behavior; these are the same people who were just idiotically dancing Gangnuam style and saying 'I'll be back" after seeing an Arnold movie, etc. etc. If you claim the video culture doesn't change behaviors, you are a walking moron.

[Rob Crawford]

Average casualties when a mass murder spree is stopped by a civilian is 2.5; Mother Jones chose their cut-off to exclude them. Remember, that's a far-left party organ; they are not interested in a nation of free people.

[Pops]

Its also funny to hear people say they have watch horror movies for 25 years and its had no affect on them.

I would argue if you are today sitting through movies like Saw I II III IV V and Hostel I II III, etc. you have been greatly affected. The fact you can sit through such bilge is proof enough

[peter]

I can't believe Mother Jones' resurrection to popularity. That's a rag that people stopped reading 40 years ago. Then again, we are living in Communist times.

[narciso]

Remember they employ Kevin Drum, and was one of the propagators of the 'St. Travyon' meme,

[Extraneus]

How many of Mother Jones's mass shootings occurred in gun free zones or cities with heavy restrictions on armed citizens?

All the school shootings, for one thing.

There wasn't anyone legally armed who could have stoped those shootings, so what's the purpose of saying that no one did?

Btw, I noticed today that both the NY Daily News and the NY Post had front pages calling Wayne LaPierre a "nut." Someting about an unhinged rant, etc., etc.

The NY Post. (They changed the front page at the site.)

Seems like the unhinged rant didn't come from LaPierre, but he's certainly in the cross-hairs these days.

[Pops]

The Natural Born Killers movie can be directly traced to over half a dozen crimes to include:

1. Sarah Edmonson and Benjamin Darrus: the killers dropped LSD and watched the film several times before shooting two victims soon after,

2. Natural Born Killers was also an influence for the perpetrators of the Columbine massacre, with the phrase “going NBK” in the journal entries of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold signaling the start of their rampage.

3. Jeremy Steinke claimed on an audio tape that the slaughter of his girlfriend’s parents and brother was his love legacy a la Natural Born Killers.

4. The decapitation of a 13 year old Texan girl by a 14 year old boy who wanted “to be famous like the Natural Born Killers”.

5. Nathan Martinez murdering his mother and sister after becoming obsessed with the film.

6. Angus Wallan and Kara Winn murdering their roommate crimes they mimicked after they watched the movie Natural Born Killers.

7. Eric Tavulares murdering Lauren Aljubouri halfway through watching the film.

---------------------------------------

The facts show these murders were directly related to people watching the movie or the movie was referenced by the killers as being what they were following and yet the media totally ignores these connections
.

These killers weren't being egged on by the NRA, they were being cajolled by innocent gun owners or the 'gun culture', it was the Hollywood violence culture that ledt to all these deaths.

[narciso]

Yes, I saw that Ext, the' Oliver Twist' like Tobin column seems to be the anchor there, To react to that yutz, is as insane as it was with Colin Ferguson, the psycho that drove the last
gun ban,

[narciso]

And he know who wrote the script for Natural Born Killer don't you, moonbat in good standing.
Jane Hamsher.

[matt]

One of the things that depresses the hell out of me is driving by some of the schools these days. High fences; the signs saying no access. Since when did we as a nation decide to go all medieval on this?

Our duty as the strong is to protect the weak. Instead, these bureaucrats have us living like Adolph and Eva down in the bunker. Their response is to take something, usually a freedom, away instead of giving us the tools to respond responsibly.

An assault weapon is anything you assault someone with. The term has no meaning. "High magazine clip" is a non sequitur. They are speaking Martian.

We know the demographic that is most at risk of committing such acts just as we know the demographic of those who find terrorism attractive. Increased engagement,supervision, surveillance, and counseling would go much further in reducing the incidence of mass violence than any other tool.

[narciso]

Well she coproduced, along with that paen to good behavior, Apt Pupil, about a kid learning to kill from a Nazi war criminal, and From Hell,
about Jack the Ripper, another role model,

[narciso]

add Mia Farrow, joins the doublethink cadres, of Joyce Carol Oates, and Marj Helgenberger, who may have been taken back by the 'Tommy Knockers'

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

Pops,

Progs have always had a problem with Logic. By that I mean that, yes, where a CCW was used in a shooting to stop the shooter it did so where only a few got killed including the crazy.

The reason we have high body counts in the "gun free zone" mass murders is that there was no one there to limit the damage. So, as a result, where there was a single digit result, its not counted as a red ribbon moment for CCW but rather a statistical anomaly.

Ain't it great to live in such an intelligent society?

[narciso]

Of course, these are often the same jackalopes, who are against proactive units like the Condor unit in NY, and similar elements down South, they have pushed to abolish the presence of law enforcement, stigmatize those who would cooperate with them,

[Extraneus]

They're not crazy and they're not fools. We're being defeated by these people.

[narciso]

Well Soros certainly does, as does Arianna, among other underwriters of this garbage,

[Extraneus]

Did they create gun free zones in order to encourage mass shootings, knowing that this is the most likely route to a gun ban, or is it just a coincidence?

[Pops]

Here are few gun laws the Republicans can get behind and demand liberals follow:

Illegal Alien gun ban: If you are in the country illegally and found to possess a gun, mandatory deportation and life time ban on immigration.

Use gun in commission of a crime and someone dies, mandatory life sentence.

Use gun in any crime, mandatory ten year sentence.

[narciso]

One does wonder Ext,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

Look how good Drug Free Zones have worked out.

Can you imagine a Pedophile Free Zone and how that may make one of them consider that idea and smile?

I'll never forget riding in my first Cell Phone Free car on the British railways and how I could not concentrate on the book I was reading because of all the calls coming in to the other passengers and them, instead of refusing them, just accept them and begin talking for 20 or so minutes.

Want to know how "limitations" work? Drive 55MPH on the interstate.

[narciso]

Yesterday, NYC, tomorrow Hebron, same narrative obtains,

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/rorschach-in-hebron-grainy-footage-fails-to-end-arguments-over-fatal-shooting/

[Extraneus]

They should be accused of it. They're not well-meaning fools. Their motives should be questioned.

[Extraneus]

.

[narciso]

It's sort of an odd take on Ghost Busters, I don't know who plays Bill Murray's part;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/21/Gov-Christie-and-Michael-Steele-Join-Mayor-Bloomberg-In-Criticizing-The-NRA

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

narciso,

The syllogism is this:

Guns are deadly
If you own a gun you kill
If you don't own a gun you are won't kill

See how simple this is?

[jimmyk]

Tim Blair had a post a few days ago covering some of the cases where an armed person stopped a shooting spree.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/clear_thinking/

Mother Jones also limited their focus to the US, thereby omitting the Mercaz Harav Yeshiva Massacre in which 8 were killed before an armed student was able to shoot the gunman.

[pagar]

"Here are few gun laws the Republicans can get behind and demand liberals follow:"

Leftists never seem to want killers to pay.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/progressives-want-obama-to-release-killer-of-two-fbi-agents/

"But Moore’s opposition to bloody murder in Newtown, Connecticut, was shocking for another reason. It turns out that, on the very day of the massacre, he was appearing in New York City at a concert seeking President Obama’s release of convicted killer Leonard Peltier from prison. Peltier is serving two consecutive life sentences for the execution-style murders of FBI Special Agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams in 1975".

No leftist seems offended by the leftist support for killers.

[jimmyk]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but Yahoo lists the top 10 scandals of 2012. Where do you think Benghazi and Fast and Furious rate?

Nowhere to be found.

Of course most of them are gossipy stuff, so the Petraeus affair made the list. The only one that didn't involve celebrities or sex was the "London Whale" trading fiasco, which I don't even think involved a crime.

http://news.yahoo.com/year-in-review-2012-scandals-kate-middleton-photos-013158248.html

[narciso]

The rule apparently is, if something is known to work, don't do it, this applies as well to the minder work that Morell is doing re; EIT, and that report that Feinstein was touting last week,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Doesn't a sensible person read a story about how few of these murderers are confronted by armed resistance and conclude there aren't enough armed people in our country?

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Because the laws don't matter....

Former Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) confirmed to the AP that his brother, Ted Kennedy Jr., is considering running for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts if Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) is confirmed as the next secretary of state.

While Kennedy now lives in Connecticut, he's felt obligated to contemplate running in Massachusetts, where the Kennedy name is revered.

Please Ted, spare us. Connecticut needs you more than we do.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Check out this site for perhaps the goofiest conspiracy theories I've ever heard of or read.
The same actor portrays Jerry Brown and Noam Chom[p]sky.
Jay Carney is actually Kevin Bacon.
More hilarity ensues.

[jimmyk]

Our own AliceH retweeted this blog post that pretty much says it all:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

First off, why do gun owners want magazines that hold more rounds? Because sometimes you miss. Because usually—contrary to the movies—you have to hit an opponent multiple times in order to make them stop. Because sometimes you may have multiple assailants. We don’t have more rounds in the magazine so we can shoot more, we have more rounds in the magazine so we are forced to manipulate our gun less if we have to shoot more.

Read the whole thing, and show it to people who might be persuadable.

[Manuel Transmission]

Given the Newtown massacre being somewhat like the the fact-free nature of the St. Trevon fiasco in that many weeks may pass by before critical facts emerge, I will repeat my request:

Has anyone seen confirmed evidence as to what weapons were actually used to kill the 26 innocents? We seem to be very far along the road to ban hign magazine clips, .223 assault rifles, etc. to find out that the Sig or Glock was used.

For all the utterly incomprehensible anti-facts that were spewed in the first day or so, I never heard any counter to the story that the Bushmaster was found in the trunk of the car. How in the hell are we having this logical meltdown, if that is true?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Ig-

I learned that someone spends far too much time online and needs a visit to any ophthalmologist.

Soon.

Just by visiting one little web page. Isn't the internet amazing?

[Extraneus]

From Jimmy's link:

Over the last fifty years, with only one single exception (Gabby Giffords), every single mass shooting event with more than four casualties has taken place in a place where guns were supposedly not allowed.

That should be quite relevant to the Mother Jones writer, no?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Ig-

I learned that someone spends far too much time online and needs a visit to any ophthalmologist.--

Some looney broad posted that at another site I visit occasionally. Crazy, but also unspeakably vile in how it demeans and diminishes real tragedies.

[Pops]

Can you imagine how quickly the media would change their tunes if a video game was produced like Postal, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto III, Mortal Kombat, etc., but had leading figures in the Democratic party and leading liberal commentators from the news and hollywood as the targets for slaughter?
And each person was identified, there addresses, etc.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Man Tran,
This CNN article and many others say definitively he used the AR 15 to shoot others and one of the pistols to shoot himself. Apparently what was left in the trunk was a shotgun.

[Extraneus]

Libs aren't dumb. They know that their 1994 assault weapons ban only restricted cosmetic accessories that had no effect on the functionality of the guns they banned. They were ridiculed for it, just as they're ridiculed today for saying stupid stuff about automatic weapons and high magazine ammunition or whatever they call it, and surely that hurts their feelings.

So what are they going to propose this time? Something even more restrictive, most likely. Magazine capacity, for sure. Hollow points, maybe as a bargaining chip? Registration of existing semi-automatic rifles?

It's a good thing the holidays and "fiscal cliff" are upon us. More time for some other shiny object to take over the news. But they'll be back. Just like with health care, we can be sure they'll have a comprehensive bill queued up as soon as they get a majority again.

[Extraneus]

I'd dust off the old Xbox and buy that game, Pops. But surely the producers would change the names slightly. Cathy Courick. Charlie Gilson. Earnest Klein. Slim Matthews. Senator Charles Slimer. Like that.

[Extraneus]

In a radio interview on Thursday with Albany’s WGDJ-AM, New York governor Andrew Cuomo said that he plans to work with state legislators next month to submit a proposal for new gun-control laws; in particular, Cuomo said, “our focus is assault weapons,” because current state laws regulating the weapons “have more holes that Swiss cheese.”

“I don’t think legitimate sportsmen are going to say, ‘I need an assault weapon to go hunting,’” he said.

Cuomo continued, “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

Surely sportsmen could get by with double-barreled shotguns.

[Extraneus]

New CA gun control law:

Beginning next year, it will be illegal to carry long guns in California cities and public places. The gun control measure was signed by Governor Jerry Brown and goes into effect on January 1st. The legislation prohibits anyone from being able to open carry unloaded rifles and shotguns in cities and public places in the state. Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck and Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca supported the measure. They believe that officers responding to calls from citizens might have trouble distinguishing peaceful demonstrators from criminals armed with long guns. There are exceptions to the new law for anyone at a target range, and military employees in parades. The measure was opposed by The California Rifle & Pistol Association.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Yeah, that one seems to fly directly in the face of "keeping and bearing arms".
But then again something had to be done about the epidemic of crime being committed by law abiding citizens carrying unloaded weapons and the hundreds of honest citizens gunned down every year because the cops couldn't tell them from criminals committing crimes.

[Threadkiller]

The bad news is that I will be posting a long off topic quote.

The good news is that I have no intention of debating the content of the quote.

Just when I thought I’d seen almost everything among the judiciary, along comes Judge Kevin J. Carroll of the Circuit Court in and for Leon County, Fla., the venue in Tallahassee where my client, a Democrat, Michael Voeltz, again challenged Barack Hussein Obama’s eligibility to be president following the Nov. 6 elections. Voeltz’s previous challenges were effectively held to have been premature by two colleagues of Judge Carroll. While Voeltz and I strongly disagree with these decisions and have them on appeal, out of abundance of caution and to squarely contest Obama’s re-election, we decided to file yet a third challenge after the election. Under Florida law, Voeltz has a clear-cut, unbridled right to challenge both Obama’s fraudulent representations that he was born in the United States and is thus a natural born citizen eligible to be president, as well as the simple issue of whether he is eligible even in the absence of fraud. Florida Statutes Section 102.168 Contest of Election provides in relevant part:

(1) … the certification of election or nomination of any person to office, or of the result of any question submitted by referendum, may be contested in the circuit court by an unsuccessful candidate for such office or nomination thereto or by any elector (i.e. Voeltz) qualified to vote in the election related to such candidacy, or by any taxpayer (i.e. Voeltz), respectively (for): …

(3) (a) Misconduct, fraud or corruption …

(4) (b) Ineligibility of the successful candidate for the nomination or office in dispute.

Thus, Voeltz as an elector and taxpayer under Florida law, has an absolute right to file an election contest over Obama’s eligibility to qualify for the office of the president. Florida’s law is the strongest in the nation on this issue. # When this latest case was assigned to Judge Carroll – a Republican appointed by a “Republican” governor, Rick Scott, coincidentally to fill the judicial vacancy in Leon County that occurred when one of the few truly great judges in the nation, Judge Sanders Sauls, retired (Sauls was the Florida judge who presided over and decided the famous Gore v. Bush case in 2000, a trial I participated in while head of Judicial Watch) – I held out some hope that the rule of law might now prevail. I was wrong.

Without even permitting Voeltz to have a hearing on his complaint, after Judge Carroll had ruled that we could request one – which we did timely – Carroll panicked when he saw that we meant business and were prepared to bring witnesses, such as Sheriff Joe Arpaio, private investigator Mike Zullo and renowned investigative reporter and award-winning author Jerome Corsi to the hearing to testify, under oath, with hard evidence, that Obama’s claimed birth certificate is fraudulent (as well as many of his other identifying documents), and he was thus not born in the United States or its territories and thus not eligible to be president.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/the-judicial-grinch-who-stole-due-process/print

Ho-Ho-Hum...

[Threadkiller]

I forgot to included the solid reasoning the Judge used:

“We are now presented with Voeltz III. This Court notes that President Obama lives in the White House. He flies on Air Force One. He has appeared before Congress, delivered State of the Union addresses, and meets with Congressional leaders on a regular basis. He has appointed countless ambassadors to represent the interests of the United States throughout the world. President Obama’s recent appointment of The Honorable Mark Walker, formerly a member of this Court, has been confirmed by the United States Senate. Judge Walker has been sworn in as a United States District Court Judge and currently works at the Federal Courthouse down the street. The Electoral College has recently done its work and elected Mr. Obama to be president once again. [This is wrong!] As this matter has come before the Court at this time of the year it seems only appropriate to paraphrase the ruling rendered by the fictional Judge Henry X. Harper from New York in open court in the classic holiday film ‘Miracle on 34th St.’ ‘Since the United States Government declares this man to be President, this Court will not dispute it. Case dismissed.’”

Translation:

If it looks like a Prez, smells like a Prez, feels like a Prez, and tastes like a Prez, it must be a Prez.

Glad I didn't step in it...

[Threadkiller]

...injcluded...

[JoyO]

To really understand why the media will do all they can to push for gun control, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrf2R3UHhKo and watch the entire video if you can find the time. If I remember correctly, the various roles played by the media to get gun control passed begins about 30 minutes in.

I found it really scary that there is a group (Committee on Foreign Relations ) of the super rich that has been striving for a one-world government since JP Morgan's time! It is in NY and shows the collusion of big media industry and the political elite in our government. The media presents the news to slant the public's views to the goals of the collectivists.

[Jack is Back (Again)!]

joyO

The only thing keeping us from being a member of the new world order is our gun rights and that is why every event like Newtown is used to diminished those rights.

[narciso]

Well my autodidact grandfather, who was an iconoclast in many things, used to speak what
the called 'the dark powers' the string pullers in industry and government, I didn't think much of it, until I came across in not one but two of
Ignatius's novels, the second time I read 'Agents of Influence' and 'Firing Offense'

It seems counterintuitive, that one who arose to wealth and prominence would not want to preserve the system that made it possible, But sadly that is not the case, Just considering among the revolutionary, all the bigs, Marx
(by proxy) Lenin, Mao (of the Mandarin class)
Ho Chi Minh, Fidel,Guevara, Fonseca, were all middle or upper middle class, One of the few counterexamples was the late Efraim Bamaca, who came from working class roots,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Yeah, lots of rich people are creeps who would slit their nana's throat for a nickel but do we really have to take a drive down the Bilderberger-Rockefeller-Rothschild Trilateral Commission highway to crazytown?

[RichatUF]

do we really have to take a drive down the Bilderberger-Rockefeller-Rothschild Trilateral Commission highway to crazytown?

Darn it, you got to it first.

Evening all. Catching up on the threads.

[narciso]

Of course the likes of Murdoch, who has been an imperfect sponsor of liberty interests, as was
Scaife, the predecessor to Koch, in the Left's
Necronomicon, as opposed to Soros and our own version of Ed Rooney, Warren Buffett, the avuncular Sage of Omaha, who leveraged Benjamin
Graham's investing theories, to great advantage,

[narciso]

The usual suspects pipe in here, but there was at least an attempt at balance, sort of;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/history-of-gun-control-is-cautionary-tale-for-those-who-want-more-regulations/2012/12/22/73a07294-4afc-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_print.html

[Manuel Transmission]

Iggy, thanks for the CNN link.

[Pops]

We can't ban real guns, but we can certainly ban video based guns, and guns in movies. Why not mandate any guns show in movies must look like a breast?

Better yet, we can tax the heck out of them. I am sure Tarantino and his ilk won't mind forking over millions for the damage they cause to society. And we can certainly ban guns from appearing on broadcast television. We own those airwaves, and you don't get a license if your going to show guns.
Or pay a license fee of 10 thousand every time you want to show a gun.

Man, this legislating behavior sure is fun.

[Pops]

Better yet, talk of banning guns violates the second amendment and should be considered hate speech, punishable the same as yelling fire Ina crowded theater.
No reason we can't fine and jail those who want to take a away the rights of minorities and women!

[narciso]

What I as illustrating earlier;

http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=781734&affid=100055

[narciso]

And you see, where bgates some of his inspiration;

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/os-beth-kassab-school-safety-122312-20121222,0,2306093.column

[Frau Weihnachten]

Merry Christmas, Pops; you are on a roll.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

Pops,

You are one of the people here who I feel like I know the least, but you make my day everytime you show up.

[narciso]

It is rare, that they are ever this open;

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/12/22/Bill-Ayers-On-Liberal-Indoctrination-the-left-must-utilize-its-absolute-access-to-classrooms

[hit and run]

We brought Santa to our neighborhood on a fire truck this year.

Poor mrs hit and run has organized the Luminaries in our neighborhood for the past two years. She's amazing. Neighbors have no idea the work that goes into it -- and the bastidges try to take advantage of someone doing all they can to make the neighborhood beautiful.

They can kiss my mistletoe.

This year no one stepped up to throw candy out of a truck following Santa. So she had to do it.

We love our neighborhood. We do.

But sometimes the lack of a willingness to step up sucks.

Santa don't care. He loves what we do.

[fdcol63]

Bill Ayers is a parasite on the American body politic that needs to be eradicated.

[narciso]

'That's how you roll' hit, and that's wonderful,

Jacobsen takes the apocryphal yet eerily plausible comments from that Ace thread earlier, as a jumping off to a wider point;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/you-get-nothing-i-get-that-for-free/#more

I remember there was a scene in Andy Garcia's 'the Lost City' where the title characterm had to give up everything, including the watch that had been a family heirloom, for generations, before they would let him leave,

[Tully]

One thing I would point out about the Giffords shooting. It was primarily an attempted assassination, with Giffords as the target, and only secondarily a mass shooting.

[rse]

Thanks for that link narciso. Yes Ayers knows they have everything in place. Unfortunately I do too and where the vast majority has been placed.

MT-yes they will use any excuse to push gun control but you would have to know what I do about what went on in CO prior to Columbine and how there was no slowdown afterwards. Except Spady became notorious enough that South Africa and OZ became his predominant places of business for quite a few years. Nothing would deter from the transformative goals.

Just new names. I had forgotten the Springfield, Oregon shooting but so much of this came out of the Far West ed lab in Oregon. In fact Spady bragged that Oregon never slowed down no matter the level of controversy.

[Fen]

Pops: "We can't ban real guns, but -"

- but we can ban imaginary ones.

There's a rich opportunity here. We could write letters imploring the NYTs to ban the "Excalibur 450". An "assault weapon" with "high capacity ammunition" and the oh so deadly "flash suppressor". The Founders never envisioned a weapon like the Excalibur 450 ...no one needs a weapon that dangerous to defend themselves. Its time to have a "common sense" discussion about banning the Excalibur 450.

[c'mon and play - I put even odds that NYTs gives us an op-ed decrying the Exaclibur 450]

[narciso]

Oh, frabjous joy, I picked up that expression from Demolition Man, and it seems quite apt;

http://www.leaderscausingleaders.com/wordpress/2010/05/william-spady/

[Pettifogger]

Mother Jones' technique for assessing effectiveness of armed civilians in mass shootings is like assessing effectiveness of fire departments by looking only at buildings that burned to the ground.

[Skoot]

They can ban "Excalibur 450" all day, but please don't ban the M982 Excalibur! That thing's awesome:)

[narciso]

Well there's also this countermeme data point;

Armed civilians attempting to intervene are actually more likely to increase the bloodshed, says Hargarten, "given that civilian shooters are less likely to hit their targets than police in these circumstances." A chaotic scene in August at the Empire State Building put this starkly into perspective when New York City police officers confronting a gunman wounded nine innocent bystanders.

Come again, must have slipped through editing;

[Gus]

If there have been few in any citizens that stopped these killings, it only stands to reason. Law abiding citizens do not carry concealed weapons, where it is prohibited.
Maybe someone could check the PREMISIS of MAMA JONES RAGAZINE, and see if carrying is permitted there.

[Janet]

Great links, narciso. LI & Ayers. God bless William Jacobson.

[Gus]

Narciso, seems the perps don't have such bad aim. I guess we should just let the perps shoot us,because we have such bad aim!!

[narciso]

You're welcome Janet, doing a little extra googling (non Keurig coffee, TM,) one comes across this piece, which indicates where the good doctor Hargaten's funding came from, in the comments;

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Doctors-target-gun-violence-as-a-social-disease-165848466.html

'Would you believe' the Joyce Foundation,

[Gus]

When we have 8000 or so black on black murders each year. How come we hear nothing about that SPECIFIC EPIDEMIC??
800,000 babies killed in abortion "clinics", and we fund PLANNED PARENTHOOD. Then a few nuts kill in bunches and LIBRARDS all of a sudden care about the CHILDREN.
PUPPYCOCK.

[narciso]

His C.V, shows an almost exclusive dependency on Joyce Foundation funding, after 1996, with some imput from the Sarah Diamond Foundation, which if there was a similar preponderance by Koch or Scaife we wouldn't here anything but that.

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

"Translation:

"'If it looks like a Prez, smells like a Prez, feels like a Prez, and tastes like a Prez, it must be a Prez.'"

Corrected translation:

"These lunatics are dumber than homemade soap. Get them the hell out of this court, and tell them to seek honest work."

The good news is that I won't explain why what they are doing and saying is almost supernaturally stupid. I will content myself with watching them lose, over and over again, as lose they must under the law. If they cannot understand that law, my joy at their certain continued frustration will only increase.

[narciso]

Ah, Media Matters appears in this account of disbursements, from Joyce;

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-joyce-foundation-anti-gunrights.html

[Melinda Romanoff]

Pettifogger-

I believe that's more commonly known as the "Save The Basement" fire fighting technique.

More at the link, and no beverages allowed near those headlines.

[h]

Danube, you want STUPID?? http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-gop-policies-led-fiscal-cliff-blowup-222503056--politics.html
The Big Eared Prick spends TRILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIONS and TRILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIONS, and we are to believe that TAXING THE RICH is some solution to THAT. What the fux are these dickwads thinking??

[Danube of Thought on IPad]

P.S.--

What has happened with the cement-headed dolt who asked a District Court judge to issue an injunction against the Congress?

Not having read any of his moving papers, I'd love to hear his theory about where the judiciary gets the power to enjoin the U.S. Congress from acting, when that power has been exercised, and how it was enforced.

Perhaps Sheriff Joe Arpaio could enlighten us. Or get his posse to work on the question.

[Melinda Romanoff]

narciso-

Nothing says moving like a mob action. Or Joyce Bros.

Just sayin'.

[h]

Melinda, do the Joyce Boys have gubmint contracts in Alynski town??

[Melinda Romanoff]

The largest single employer in Chicago is the Federal Government, the second is The State Of Illinois.

Therefore, I have no idea what you talking about.

[hit and run]

Happy Anniversary to Mr. and Mrs. Melinda.

I'm a few minutes early on east cost time. And hour and so for central.

I'd like to apologize for that, but I won't. That's just how I roll.

[hit and run]

That was supposed to be in all bold...

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY MRS AND MR MELINDA!!!