When You Can't Even Figure Out Who Is On Your Side...

Writing at Hot Air, 'Jazz Shaw' pretends to read Megan McArdle's evisceration of proposals to institute some sort of meaningful requirement for gun-owner's liability insurance and comes away imagining she supports the idea. Maybe he was confused by her conclusion:

The legal changes needed to use insurance to make a dent in criminal possession and use--which so often go together--would be enormous, far reaching, and subject to gimlet-eyed review by appellate court.  And the very political forces that you are trying to end run would rise up and obstruct at every turn. To put it another way: if you could get support for widespread gun registration, you probably wouldn't bother thinking up ways to use insurers as substitute regulators.

Of course, proponents might say that it doesn't have to be a full solution, only a partial solution. And fair enough.  The problem is, it's not clear to me that any law which could actually be enacted would even a partial solution to gun crime.  The people who will buy insurance will, by and large, be the people who have assets and social respect to lose by breaking the law . . . which is precisely why they're quite unlikely to commit a gun crime. The people who are most likely to use the guns to a bad end will simply do without. 

Mark Kleiman thinks individual liability has flaws but maybe liability can be pushed back to the manufacturer. I read his last paragraph as skeptical even of this:

Now go back to Megan’s piece to read about all the issues that would raise. And then think about how hard it would be for anyone living in a poor African-American neighborhood to buy a gun.

Well, Jazz Shaw probaly will call that an endorsement.

Now, for the legal eagles out there - my murky memory tells me that the trial lawyers had targeted Big Guns for the same treatment as Big Tobacco, with the notion that gun manufacturers had somehow put out a defective or misleading product (guns are dangerous, even fatal?!?). However, Congress legislated that door shut in 2005.

So, if a new Congress created manufacturer's liability, could it possibly apply to guns sold while the 2005 law was in effect? And does the 2005 law protect all guns sold prior to its enactment, or could a new law create manufacturer's liability for all guns sold before 2005 and after enactment of the new law? Depending on how much grandfathering we are talking about, manufacturer's liability may not mean much in a nation with a current stock of weapons exceeding 300 million.

SINCE YOU ASK, AND SINCE I AM LOOKING AT IT: 2012 is nearly in the books and the NY Times sneak-previews 2012 crime statistics, highlighted by a decline in homicides:

Of the 414 murders, 14 deaths from previous years were counted as homicides for the first time, like in the Patz case. In many of these cases, victims of long-ago shootings died of sepsis in hospitals, the police said.

Of the 400 murders in 2012, 223 were gunshot victims, 84 victims were stabbed to death, 43 died of blunt trauma and 11 died of asphyxiation. The majority of the 400 homicides occurred on a Saturday, followed by early Sunday morning. Most occurred at 2 a.m. People were more likely to be killed outside than in. Nearly 70 percent of the victims had prior criminal arrests, the police said.

Domestic-related homicides dropped to 68, from 94 in 2011.

The likelihood of being killed by a stranger was slight. The vast majority of the homicides, Mr. Kelly said, grew out of “disputes” between a victim and killer who knew each other.

The NYPD prepares a detailed homicide report each year. Back in 2011 the most common homicides were young black men shooting each other. Some stats:

Blacks were 23% of the NYC population but 68% of the homicide victims; 38% of all victims were black males aged 16-37; 86% of black male victims aged 16-21 were shot.

On the other side, 59% of suspects were black. 83% of black suspects had a black victim.

Among all suspects, 34% were aged 16-21; 41% were aged 22-37.

And a stat I would like to know more about: 42% of suspects and 38% of victims had prior arrests for drug sales or possession.

An arrest for drug sales is probably serious. However, an arrest for possession might be total BS (e.g., a result of a stop-and-frisk that turns up nothing else) or partial BS (the cops get a 'known' bad guy for whatever they can make stick; think of it as the street equivalent of Al Capone and tax evasion).

Without more detail (and street savvy) I can't look at these NYPD reports and come away confident that "real" criminals make up a big part of the criminal and victim pools. However, their numbers point that way, which suggests some good advice for avoiding homicide - don't get caught up in the drug trade, as either a seller or buyer.

But do let me add: Mayor Bloomberg manages to leaf through these reports and come away convinced that the solution to gun violence is to impose more rules on middle-aged, middle-class gun owners in suburbia and rural America.

Comments

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Mark Kleiman thinks individual liability has flaws but maybe liability can be pushed back to the manufacturer.--

Gunmakers are currently shielded by Federal statute from liability.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

This statement by Kleiman indicates a thorough misapprehension of the issue;

That system would give the gun industry a strong incentive to be careful about not selling to people who might misuse the weapon or re-transfer it to someone who would.

No manufacturer sells to the public. Very few if any even sell to retail dealers. Firearms are distributed to a large network of wholesalers who in turn distribute to FFL dealers who then retail to the public.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I might add that selling a firearm to a disallowed person, sometimes even if unknowingly, already subjects a dealer to a huge federal criminal liability including lengthy prison sentences and large fines the incentive of which would far exceed some tortious liability.
Not sure if Kleiman's this useless on other issues but he might as well have saved the pixels on this one.

[narciso]

Well the category error starts there, and like with a Noonan column, 'it's turtles all the way down,

[Rob Crawford]

ISTR there's a self-defense right advocacy group that offers legal insurance if you're Zimmerman'd, and I'd be shocked (shocked!) if normal liability insurance didn't cover accidents.

Nothing, except for the public defender's office, covers you for purposeful misuse of a firearm.

As always, the control freaks are focusing their efforts on making more people criminals rather than punishing those who have already broken the laws. I guess they think it's easier to disarm law-abiding middle-class white hunters and target shooters than ghetto gang-bangers.

Which, as with their attitude towards blasphemous speech, shows that the secret to keeping the tyrants off your back is to keep them terrified of you.

[lyle]

Bloomie: the biggest little fascist. Or maybe the littlest big fascist.

[squaredance]

Kleinman is not guilty of "thorough misapprehension of the issue" as the issue is not one of reducing criminal misuse but rather one of using the excuse of criminal use to further restrict, by hook or by crook, the 2nd amendment rights of the decent and law abiding.

It is you, Ignatz, that appears to miss the point (though one doubts that you are actually this obtuse).

What he is guilty of, mercifully, is using outrageously fallacious arguments--and for once we cannot even call these arguments specious--to weave his propaganda. Here we have guilt by association being the only top of the list; quickly following is the conflation of the criminality with insanity. It is a veritable Forest of fallacies, most to obvious for even the dullest eye. What is curious--and the most idiotic--is the notion that equipment manufacturers are somehow responsible for the use of their equipment. Better let Silicon Valley and the Telecom people know about this--they could be in big trouble.

This last bit is deeply revealing about the Left: not once is the individual actor held responsible for their actions. Immorality must reside in some foggy change of causality connecting the enabling tools of the act and not in the actually act of the perpetrators.

We should be thankful that in their power lust and intoxication for this issue that they move in sloppy haste and let the mask slip a bit. One can hope that they manage to toss away whatever "political capital" they manged to work up last Nov. in this ideological freak show surrounding Newton.

That being said, when people like this viper speak thus it is really a case the Left talking to their base and attendant useful idiots rather than a case of "public dialog". They are just whipping up the rabble. Though a public response is necessary, it is hardly sufficient. If the last election proves anything it is that these propaganda campaigns are not targeted at the general public public at all. The right must learn to counter attack in kind.

As an aside, what vexes is that fact that so many of these anti-gun advocates are Jews. Have they learn nothing from history?

One can talk about Soros and various other Jewish socialist zillionares, and carp aobut Jewish media and academic cabals all one wants, but the truth of the matter is that once the collectivists gain a ultimate ascendancy the Jews are one of the first groups that will be targeted. They are in fact one of the most obvious targets. They may think that this time around they can maintain the upper hand, but this is the most foolish sort of wishful thinking imaginable.

As in the USSR, a great many of the left's useful idiots are in for the grimmest of surprises--one that at this late date there is no excuse not to see coming.

[Rob Crawford]

As an aside, what vexes is that fact that so many of these anti-gun advocates are Jews. Have they learn nothing from history?

I think if you poke these particular clowns, you'll find their only religion is Power. That they had ancestors who were Jewish is an accident of history.

[narciso]

Well we focus on Soros, because like a more successful Blofeld, he has all the accoutrements of a successful villain, including probably a volcano layer with 'sharks with laser beams'

Now the earlier scheme that some have considered is pricing ammunition, out of most people's reach, they haven't thought that through as well.

[Extraneus]

Excellent post, squaredance.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Kleinman is not guilty of "thorough misapprehension of the issue" as the issue is not one of reducing criminal misuse but rather one of using the excuse of criminal use to further restrict, by hook or by crook, the 2nd amendment rights of the decent and law abiding--

The issue being discussed by Kleiman was how guns are distributed to retail customers and how strict liability might affect that system. His description of it shows him to be ignorant of how it occurs. If his only interest was advancing gun control it's hard to see how intentionally misrepresenting the gun distribution network furthers his argument; in fact it under mines it, indicating the issue I was addressing was one of ignorance on his part regardless of his ultimate intentions.

Thanks for the lecture though. I've only been a dealer for 30+ years and could really use the help.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Byron York on the latest cliff deal;
A likely tax hike on those above $4-500,000 and the sequestration cuts go forward.

[narciso]

That's like Lando's deal with Vader, don't see the point in it,

[Jack is Back (on Firefox)]

If Boehner could not get his collegues in the GoP to vote on those making over $1mil, what makes us think they will go along with those making half as much? Sequestration cuts are a mere drop in the ocean.

[maryrose]

Iggy:
I'll believe a deal when I see it. The picture of Oblammy scrambling does warm my heart. Even Reid has to wake up and pretend to do his job.

[narciso]

Kleinman is part of the Journolist, wasn't that established, McArdle 'bless her heart' has long since made her unreliable for advice, since she endorsed Obama, who is against everything she says she believes in,

A slightly more jaundiced perspective on the matter;

[daddy]

Yay! Heels beat somebody. In basketball. At home. By like 3 points. But what the hell, at least we didn't lose.

Anyhow, off with the dogs. FWIW, I have been doing dog walking duty from my Tax Attorney buddy up the street. He has been in the office constantly till way late at night (7 PM on Christmas) due to having to do all this estate taxes work prior to 1 Jan and the new Tax structure.

I pity our Tax attorney friends here at JOM, but at least I get to take out his sweet puppy dog Bella.

[hoyden]

Tyrannical gun laws further the Liberal cause by deterring folks from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, thus maximizing the number of people who rely on the state exclusively for protection. When innocent gun owners transgress these laws then they can be counted as bonus casualties who further reduce the lawful gun owning population. Liberal gun control doesn't focus on criminals because they are not concerned with whether you die from criminal violence or end up in prison; you are out of the game in either case and the gun control laws live on.

[narciso]

That's the gist of the previously LUNed piece,

[Gus]

Gosh, what happens when Baracksucker Obama and Eric the Black Hack Holder sell 2000 ASSAULT RIFLES to MEXICAN DRUG LORDS??

Liability?
Anything?
Beuhler??

[Janet]

Yeah...& that paper printing the names & locations of gun owners...is sorta like the Joe the Plumber treatment. Make anyone contemplating buying a gun think twice.

[Gus]

Good post Squaredance. Let me synopsize if I might.

LIBTARD MARXISTS do not want you to have your SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
They want full GOVERMENT (READ:THEM) Control of your life and choices.
I say FUCK YOU to them.

[Janet]

On FB - Eric Holder: We Need To “Brainwash” People To Be Anti-Gun [VIDEO]

...except Mexican drug lords, like Gus points out.

[Gus]

Oh my!! Look look looooooooooook look what your filthy SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS have caused. MEXICANS ARE DYING IN THE STREETS because of the SECOND AMENDMENT.

JANET, that was supposed to be the result of FAST and FURIOUS. Both Baracksucker and Holder are on record as blaming US/U.S. for the gun proliferation and deaths in Mexico, then VOILA!!!! A gun running operation a la self fulfilled LIBTARD WET DREAM prophecy!!! The MEXICANS ARE ALL DYING BECAUSE OF US!!

Didn't work out as they planned, but the MFM is too CORRUPT to report this, and let the truth come out.

[Manuel Transmission]

Iggy, check your email.

[cathyf]

As my mom said this morning: you don't need a gun to kill people.

CHICAGO (CBS) — Police are investigating an early-morning fire that [left] a woman dead and five others, including two children, hurt, as a possible case of arson. A witness claims a woman doused herself and two children with liquor and then set the house on fire. It happened at about 4:30 a.m. Saturday morning on the 4200 block of West 21st Place in the Lawndale neighborhood.

link

[narciso]

Of course, the flipside of this, is the Elian matter, when the unarmed residents in one Little Havana hamlet, were subject to more military force, than the whole compliment in Abbotabad.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Check yours MT. :)

[moxieman]

I might add that selling a firearm to a disallowed person, sometimes even if unknowingly, already subjects a dealer to a huge federal criminal liability including lengthy prison sentences and large fines the incentive of which would far exceed some tortious liability.
Not sure if Kleiman's this useless on other issues but he might as well have saved the pixels on this one.
-----------------------

Very true.

[Old Lurker]

JiB the deal will have the support of most Dems so not that many Reps will be required in the House. And more than a few Reps will vote for it anyway.

Boehner COULD prevent the bill from coming to the floor at all if he invoked House precedent about any bill getting a vote having to have the support of the majority party...but he does not have the balls to do that in general and particularly not before his election to the Speakership Jan 3.

So all we await is the fine print at this point seems to me.

[Captain Hate]

Yay! Heels beat somebody. In basketball. At home. By like 3 points. But what the hell, at least we didn't lose.

I was gonna mention this earlier but then got busy doing some painting and other Honeydew things around the house. It was a good OOC win which they were previously lacking. This is a Hole team that doesn't have the usual Hole level of talent. I'm not sure if Roy whiffed on a few blue chippers or what but I'm sure it will be rectified in short order.

[Danube of Thought]

Suppose congress not only repealed the 2005 Act, but passed a new one saying manufacturers could be sued in federal court for damages arising out of the use of their products?

I dunno....

[Danube of Thought]

Hadn't seen this before:

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.

(see the writeup at Drudge.)

[boatbuilder]

Based on those murder stats in NYC it would appear that if the city outlawed the sale or posession of illegal drugs that would prevent a lot of murders. The illegal drug lobby must be very powerful. How about taxing illegal drug sellers! If it prevents just one murder and makes us all feel safer...

[boatbuilder]

I got it! Make the illegal drug dealers, and their buyers, buy insurance.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Suppose congress not only repealed the 2005 Act, but passed a new one saying manufacturers could be sued in federal court for damages arising out of the [mis]use of their products?--

Why not? Sets a nice precedent for the auto and chemical industries, among many thousands of others. Think of all the free phones that would fund.

[boatbuilder]

If we could find a way to tax idiotic public policy, then we'd be on to something.

[Danube of Thought]

"Why not?"

The only reason I can see at this point is that a lot of congressman would lose their jobs, so it's unlikely to happen. The mere fact that it would be atrocious public policy never deters them from anything.

But my larger point is, I can't think of a constitutional impediment to such a move.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

Is the NFA an infringement, as specified in the 2nd Amendment?

Has it ever been challenged in the courts?

I ask because it seems to me that if the idea is to allow the people to keep and bear arms in order to provide for a well regulated militia then why restrict those arms (i.e. the NFA)?

[boatbuilder]

If only we could find a way to make legislators buy insurance against the "unanticipated" consequences of their legislation. Imagine the premiums in California!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I would think equal protection might rear its head if one industry is singled out for one form of legal liability and other industries which kill many more every year are not.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

BB,

Lets license and regulate legislators.

Like lawyers, doctors, engineers, vets, barbers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, exterminators and porn stars you need to be certified by the state in order to practice. The test for legislators would be two parts: Part 1 is the US Constitution and applicable State ones, Part 2 would be all Math especially heavy on econometrics and cost-risk analysis as well as budgeting and cost control.

[Janet]

Yeah, Ignatz. I think you pointed out that Schwinn was a big killer.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Is the NFA an infringement, as specified in the 2nd Amendment?

Has it ever been challenged in the courts?--

Miller was a direct challenge which yielded a peculiar decision. Miller was convicted of violating the NFA with a short barrelled shotgun. The lower court decision was appealed but no defense of Miller's position was presented to SCOTUS.
The peculiarity arose when the Miller court recognized the right of people to keep and bear arms for militia purposes and specifically those that would aid the militia and were used by the military, but since no evidence was presented affirming that short barreled shotguns were in fact commonly used by the armed forces they affirmed his conviction.
The decision leaves the impression that had evidence been presented to that court that short barreled shotguns were used by the military and possible fully automatic personal arms, as opposed to a quad fifty for instance, they might have found in Miller's favor and gutted the NFA.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Yeah, Ignatz. I think you pointed out that Schwinn was a big killer.--

Along with Ford, Government motors, Budweiser, pee wee football, Jack Daniels, all of the food industry, the entire healthcare system and pharmacological industries. Let your imagination run wild; the list is nearly endless.

[narciso]

There really is no end to it, that stupid check list of insurance factors, had dogs, swimming pools, and tranpolines, ahead of guns,

[narciso]

And then there's the jackwagon referred here;

http://www.popehat.com/2012/12/19/professor-loomis-and-the-nra-a-story-in-which-everyone-annoys-me/

[AliceH]

I've been browsing around the web, looking at handguns and oh my goodness - firearms are expensive! I am suffering from severe sticker shock. How do people afford them?

[jimmyk]

Oy, the Hispanic woman arrested for pushing the Indian man in front of the subway said she did it because she hates Muslims and Hindus. Get ready for some PC hectoring by Bloomie and the media. Never mind that this woman is undoubtedly unhinged.

[Danube of Thought]

I don't think an Equal Protection challenge would succeed: all the US would have to show is a "rational basis" for the law, since there is no suspect classification (e.g. race) requiring closer scrutiny.

The manufacturer would at the very least be entitled to a trial by jury--I think (the congress could provide for bench trials only, these being civil actions)--and under common-law tort analysis there would have to be a showing that the particular injurious event was foreseeable by the manufacturer.

But once a sympathetic plaintiff with a good lawyer can get to a jury--or the right judge, and they are legion--you're in a real crapshoot.

I doubt any of this will happen. I'm just daydreaming about worst-case scenarios.

[narciso]

So how does that her different from Bloomberg?

[Extraneus]

A lot of lawyers are surely daydreaming about the same thing as a best-case scenario.

[jimmyk]

Bloomberg is unhinged and loves Muslims, even the ones who want to murder us?

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

If only we could find a way to make legislators buy insurance against the "unanticipated" consequences of their legislation.

Now you're talking. The combined malpractice that represents us is almost beyond belief.

But once a sympathetic plaintiff with a good lawyer can get to a jury--or the right judge, and they are legion--you're in a real crapshoot.

I have always believed that there is absolutely not a lick of difference between going to trial and playing roulette in Vegas for the exact reasons you have stated. However that calculation applies equally to a sympathetic defendant.

[Thomas Collins]

At the very least, the gun confiscation Congresscritters could attempt to increase the Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax, and dedicate a portion of the revenues from that tax to support for federal "violence awareness" programs (that is, anti-gun propaganda programs) in elementary and high schools. I believe the current revenues from that tax are required to go to support hunting programs. I don't think such legislation would pass. However, I think progs will introduce an array of burdensome regulatory and tax legislative proposals.

[AliceH]

Besides the sale price, and sales tax, what other charges are added when purchasing a firearm? How much do they typically run?

[Danube of Thought]

Best attack on such legislation might be as a Bill of Attainder.

[Gus]

If they tax guns and ammo, how will poor black people protect themselves? And won't these poor black folks need an I.D. as in proper identification to obtain access to their second amendment rights??? I smell disenfranchisement.
I'm sure Jesse Jacksoff will weigh in soon.

[Jimmyk]

DoT, not sure which legislation you mean, but all sorts of things are singled out for punitive taxation--cigarettes, gasoline, alcohol. A bill of attainder claim wouldn't seem to be much help.

[Frau Schiessgewehr]

As part of my personal protest, we showed our younger granddaughter--sixteen-- our rifle and shotgun. I've been telling her about Project Appleseed.
LUN

[Gus]

Frau, guns kill. Didn't you hear?

[richatuf]

Evening all. Great reading catching up with all the threads.

[daddy]

Oy, the Hispanic woman arrested for pushing the Indian man in front of the subway

Wonder if she's a White Hispanic like George Zimmerman?

[richatuf]

A bill of attainder claim wouldn't seem to be much help.

In re: product liability? Isn't intentional misuse a defense as well?

What a mess, the admin wanted to step into the Zimmerman shooting to scale back people's right to defend themselves and now they want to also take the tools people can use to defend themselves away.

[Gus]

Great Question, if Obama had a son, he might be Muslim or something too!!

[Danube of Thought]

I wasn't talking about tax legislation, jimmy, only my own hypothetical about congress creating a private right of action for firearm victims against manufacturers. The bill-of-attainder attack worked in the case of Teddy Kennedy's bill that singled out Rupert Murdoch; no idea if it would work here.

I'm not sure that intentional misuse would be available as a defense against a third-party victim of the misuse.

[Agent J]

Yesterday with the trigger locked, the weapon unloaded, I allowed those that wish to handle my new "Judge".. All were impressed..Some wish to explore further..They were instructed to come visit when we did not have more then a house full..Two or three young adults at a time is great.

I was so proud when my one daughter, who in the past had been involved with two armed robbery's while working for McDonald's. Requested to handle the pistol..that is a major accomplishment,for someone had been pistol whipped to the floor once, the other time the robber was standing over her, an shot beside her head while laying on the floor..A sigh of full recovery, IMO.. Her two kids have been deprived of never going into a Mc'Ds..only drive through.

Along that line of thinking, how many of you have received a phone call at 1:00 AM from the manager of Mc'Ds, informing you that they had been robbed, an your daughter had been taken to the hospital..No condition report, nothing. You do wake up fast, that was the longest 40 miles that I ever drove the speed limit..She was kept over night..

[narciso]

Well that was just a bonus, Rich, the wider point was to 'rub raw the sources of discontent' as Alinsky recommended, in order to do so, the actual facts regarding the event, which took me a few weeks to really get, had to be made unrecognizable from the template that was George Zimmerman.

[Gus]

Narciso, the biggest problem with the whole ALYNSKI thing, is that IT IS REAL and OBAMA and his ILK follow it.
But. The MORONS that inhabit this country WITH US, have no idea what or who ALYNSKITES are. Furthermore, most would NEVER BELIEVE that CHOCOLATE JESUS could possibly be MARXIST.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Geebus, Agent J!

I'm ecstatic to hear of the survival of your daughter through such a horror. Does your state allow concealed carry, unlike mine for the next 170+ days?

I wish you luck and would like to rub the forehead of that lucky daughter just for some of that luck to rub off on me.

[Danube of Thought]

I'd like a brief moment with the forehead of the son of a bitch who attacked her.

Bless her brave heart, AgentJ.

[Gus]

Mel, as you know, WE now have concealed carry, but I don't think assault on a mailbox is reason enough to draw!!!

[richatuf]

Agent J-

Wow AgentJ glad she recovered. Was it in WY?

[daddy]

Horrendous events Agent J.

Have no idea how to respond except to share your great relief she is alive and well. Bless your whole bunch.

[Agent J]

Yes we have CC in Missouri..I have not resorted to that yet.. I tell the kids that it is far more exciting to just carry with out the permit..Actually I do not carry at any time, since I am traveling all over this country, I never know what the other states rules are..

Those instances of robbery happened about 8- 10 years ago, an she was under medical care for a period of time..It happened in "gang" week in Kansas City an both individuals were apprehended. I was much relieved when in both cases they plea bargained an she did not have to testify, but it was an education for me to escort her into the city an set through the preliminary's..I do believe in selective abortions, or in later stages of life just shoot the bastards..

[Melinda Romanoff]

Gus-

Your mailbox will never see it coming. It's far better than the "Three Teens And A Long Steel Pipe" type of assault that might have haunted you in the past.

Of course, I have no knowledge of how that might have worked in a sturdy 1977 Suburban.

[Gus]

Who told you about my parents Suburban?

[daddy]

One of Narciso's links led me to a weird story on a new discovery about Magnetism: Researchers discover a new kind of magnetism.

I thought there was only good old magnetism, but apparently there are now 3 types of Magnetism we know about;

1) Ferromagnetism: The old Compass Needle type
2) Anti-Ferromagnetism: Only operates below certain temps and useful in computer hard drives,
and now a 3rd Type:
3) (QSL) quantum spin liquid magnetism.

I have no idea what the heck it does. And are there more types? Beats me, but I think the general properties of the Universe seem to come in more than 3's, so I'm betting there's a Magnetism Number 4.

[richatuf]

The French high court struck down the 75% tax rate!

[narciso]

Apophis, why have you forsaken us, with that long orbit,

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=46291

[Melinda Romanoff]

Linkie please, daddy. This is what I've been dreaming about.

[daddy]

Melinda,

If that story doesn't work try this one: MIT researchers discover existence of new state of magnetism

[Danube of Thought]

Don't get too excited, Rich. If you read the fine print, they can and will tweak the bill so as to re-impose the 75% rate.

[Melinda Romanoff]

daddy-

Did my own search. It's stunning. I need to sleep on it to grasp it (it's the only way I finger out new things). Wow!

Thanks! This is going to change some things for me.

[Melinda Romanoff]

G'night all.

[Gus]

Danube. Although, I think the French are White Flag freaks, the power to tax and legislate IN OUR COUNTRY, does not include the COURTS (theoretically) interfering.

[richatuf]

Darn it. Just when I was going to think of something nice to say about the French.

Maybe they'll break the flaming Citroen record this year.

Stumbled upon this quote from Judge Hand...

―Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.-

[Gus]

Judge Hand HATE CHILDREN and he made Jeff Spiccoli share his Pizza with the class at Ridgemont High.

[Dave (in MA)]

--
David Burge
‏@iowahawkblog
Guy makes crappy YouTube video, Hillary Clinton ends up drinking away a concussion in the tropics. #ButterflyEffect
--

[clarice]

http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/about.php

You, too, can write Tom Friedman columns,

[richatuf]

Still in Hawaii?

[Elliott]

You, too, can write Tom Friedman columns,

I am unable to resist the SSP impulse.

[Elliott]

And should the aforementioned New York Times Pulitzer Prize winning columnist find himself between sixes and sevens regarding the subject of inquiry for his next weighty tome, perhaps he could ponder the rather arresting phrase that hit and run set down in an ancient thread. Per usual, bgates' contributions on that page are not too be missed, though one of them is particularly piquant at the moment.

[richatuf]

Very clever Elliott.

[henry]

Daddy, number 4 is "animal magnetism". You are more familiar with it than scientists would be.

[Jim Eagle]

My contribution

[Jane on Ipad]

We have a foot of new snow, and bitter cold this morning. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[marlene]

Jane,the weather girl on Fox just said Maine will get a few more inches.My husband said,"she's full of (delete)." He's been shoveling a few more inches since 5AM.

[Melinda Romanoff]

16 and clear. Short pup walks today.

[henry]

10... not much snow in the forecast. It was warmer at the beach.