Before Cashing Out My Coins

Matt Yglesias is a one-man wrecking crew in an epic battle against reality. His launch point was the Trillion Dollar coin concept, and he delivers not one but two missiles of misinformation today.

His first launch:

The Platinum Coin Was Intended To Generate Seigniorage

No, not really at all. What is "seigniorage"? It is the added value that attaches to a bit of metal (or paper) when the government deems it to be legal tender. For example, a few cents worth of copper and bronze are stamped and boom - we have a quarter worth $0.25.

But platinum is part of the US bullion coin program, along with silver, gold and palladium. Using gold as an example, the Mint takes an ounce of gold worth maybe $1,600, stamps it with a face amount of $50 and boom - sells it for $50, thereby losing $1,550. NO!

They sell it for $1,600 plus a mark-up for production, marketing and administration. But that magic stamp of $50 isn't why they can sell the coin for more than $1,600 - it's the gold!

With the bullion coin program the Mint makes money by banging out their precious metal coins more cheaply than the Canadians can deliver their Maple Leafs, the Australians their Koalas, the Chinese their Pandas, and so on. How does General Motors make money? Seigniorage or great products? Yeah, this is America!

The US does make seigniorage on its circulating coins (the stuff in your pockets). Let's cut to the Mint's annual report:

The United States Mint (Mint) operates two fiscally separate programs: a circulating program and a numismatic program that includes both collectible coin products and precious metal bullion coins. The Mint enjoyed strong performance throughout fiscal year (FY) 2012 in both programs. Though revenue decreased in each program in FY 2012, as a result of our continued focus on costs, we generated positive seigniorage in our circulating program and positive net income in our bullion and collectible coin programs.

There is one bit of crossover - the Mint markets collectible editions of conventional circulating coins (such as proof sets of the new quarters.) Those coins don't circulate but they do produce seigniorage gains. However, that is not part of the bullion program.

So no, the platinum program was never intended to produce siegniorage profits.

And the next comic caper:

Fox News Doesn't Understand How Coins Work

What did those dumb bunnies say? Matt shows us a graphic in which Fox News explained that a Trillion Dollar Platinum coin would weigh 17,773.995 tons, equal to 89 blue whales or one nuclear sub. Har de har! Back to Matt:

Here's Fox News confusing the idea of a coin-shaped pile of platinum worth $1 trillion and a $1 trillion coin that happens to be made out of platinum and can be of any size. We saw earlier this week that the National Republican Campaign Committee also doesn't understand how coins work, so perhaps I can try again to explain.

You know what? Let me try to explain. The law we are looking at says that "(k) The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins..."

And what is a "bullion coin" you might ask, although Matt has not? Let's go to the Mint for a definition (my emphasis):

A bullion coin is a coin that is valued by its weight in a specific precious metal. Unlike commemorative or numismatic coins valued by limited mintage, rarity, condition and age, bullion coins are purchased by investors seeking a simple and tangible means to own and invest in the gold, silver, and platinum markets.

"Valued by its weight"? Like the way a $50 gold coin can be worth $1,600? Gee, that means a One Trillion Dollar Platinum Bullion coin would have to weigh... as much as a nuclear sub. Har de har indeed.

Hmm. Maybe the Foxies are still wrong even though they are right about bullion coins. After all, maybe the Secretary could produce a "proof platinum coin". But what is that?

The long answer is at the bottom of this earlier post. The short answer is that 'proof' coins refer to enhanced production techniques that result in great looking coins. However, as best I can tell from looking at the product offerings at the Mint or by reading the law on coins, "proof" coins always have their conventional counterpart.

[Or let me cite this handy defintion from "The Coin Site":

Proof Coins are specially made examples of regular issue coins historically used as gifts or for presentation.]

More on the history of proof coins issued in the US here. The gist - as best I can tell (but I have only paged through two books at the library and do not claim a numismatist), there are examples of conventional coins being struck without accompanying proof versions for collectors, but there are no examples of proof coins being struck for which there is no conventional circulating, commemorative or bullion counterpart. Which is consistent with the defintion provided above.]

For example, in addition to conventional circulating quarters like the ones jinggling in your pocket the Mint makes proof quarters of conventional metal for collectors (very pretty!) and Silver Proof quarters that will knock your eyes out. The Silver Proof quarters are worth about $8 each based on the silver content, but have a face value of $0.25. No seigniorage there.

Or here is an example of how "proof" is used elsewhere in the law:

(6) Quality of coins.—The bullion coins minted under this Act shall be issued in both proof and uncirculated qualities.

There are many similar examples, and please note the pairing of "proof" with a conventional counterpart (in this example, uncirculated).

The point being, under the one-sentence law governing platinum coins, the normal meaning of "proof platinum coin" would simply be the proof version of a platinum bullion coin or the proof platinum version of some circulating coin (e.g., a platinum proof dollar).

In either case, however, we are talking about a Trillion Dollar coin that can't exist - we don't have 18,000 tons of platinum for a bullion coin, proof version or no, and we don't have a circulating trillion dollar coin we can spruce up in platinum.

In principal, the phrase "proof platinum coin" has a fairly clear meaning distinct from "platinum coin"; it is also pretty clear that Matt has no idea what that meaning might be, and I am not fully pounding the table myself. But Laurence Tribe had this to say in endorsing the Trillion Dollar coin:

Using the statute this way doesn’t entail exploiting a loophole; it entails just reading the plain language that Congress used.

"Plain language"?

...

Of course, Congress probably didn’t have trillion-dollar coins in mind, but there’s no textual or other legal basis for importing this probable intention into the statute. What 535 people might have had in their collective “mind” just can’t control the meaning of a law this clear.

How clear is it? "Proof platinum coin" surely means something different from "platinum coin". "Bullion coin" certainly does. So how do the Coiners propose that we glean the meaning of that phrase? I think history, common practice, and legislative intent would be sensible places to start if we really can't agree that proof sets of coins don't exist except alongside conventional counterparts.

AND SPEAKING OF CLEAR LANGUAGE: Elsewhere in the law there are fairly specific definitions the shape of a coin as to weight, diameter and edging. Yet in the one sentence on platinum coins we are told that the Secretary has full discretion to issue coins

"...with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion, may prescribe from time to time."

So can the Secretary exert his discretion to authorize issuance of a six-side cube with graphics of the American landscape? I say no, because even though it is not defined here, a "coin" is not a die, and we all know it. As to what the Coiners would say, I am not so sure.

CHIPS, PLEASE... We are moving on - it is all about IOUs now. But Ann Althouse thumps Matt on the eay out the door.

Comments

[Sue]

Try following this while taking pain meds. How clear is it then dear leader?

[Manuel Transmission]

Hey, Sue. Clear as mud without the pain killers.

[peter]

So Tribe is now a plain language constructionist? Does that apply to Constitutional interpretation as well?

[Sue]

I'm just glad I reread at the end of a pain pill cycle. I thought we were discussing plutonium.

[marlene]

Good Morning! We're leaving early for NH.Tomorrow we go to gun school. Have a great week-end everyone! Sue,feel better soon!

[Sue]

Marlene

Thanks. I'm getting there.

[James D.]

Sue, I'm with MT. It's probably MORE clear under the influence of meds. I think being under the influence is the only way to read Yglesias and not develop a headache anyway.

It's a good thing you don't live in NYC, because Mayor Bloomberg doesn't think you should be allowed to have the meds at all (see LUN).

[Extraneus]

The $1T Wooden Nickel

[sbw]

Darnit, Tom, here Matt Yglesias is fully engaged doing nothing that matters and you would distract him?

Napoleon would let the lemmings march on.

[narciso]

Morning Sue, hope you're feeling better. Yes, Yglesias is as dense as 'depleted uranium', so you're not far off.

[sbw]

[OT but On topic]

Pass it on:

Everyone in the world needs a large capacity AR15 magazine, even if they don’t own a gun.

[narciso]

I was pointing out, the Troy McClure like nature, of that former Top Man, Kleinbard,
here is his misunderstanding or deliberate
representation of Cain's plan;

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1941800

[narciso]

They keep playing these 'Vizzini like' games about transparency;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/01/anonymous-style-threat-to-expose-more-journalists-personal-information/#comments

[bgates]

Try following this while taking pain meds.

Do you honestly think the people who came up with this scheme were taking smaller doses of narcotics than you are?

Using the statute this way doesn’t entail exploiting a loophole; it entails just reading the plain language that Congress used.

I had thought that's what a loophole was. Merriam-Webster says we're both right:
a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded

-but I don't see how an ambiguity can be relied upon to provide a means of escape. It might, but it might not. It's ambiguous!

[Janet]

I can hardly look at the news. It's like the political class & the "news" media have gone insane. Spoiled children...screaming & writhing on the floor...throwing a tantrum... while normal Americans calmly go on with life.
Theater of the absurd comes to mind....

[henry]

Janet, I feel your pain. At least Walker is talking about a substantial income tax cut (we'll see details soon) and Jindal is talking about eliminating the income tax. They say its darkest before the dawn, its certainly dark right now.

[Janet]

Both the federal govt. & my city govt. seem to be caught up in RULING - implementing ideas that their citizens don't even want or didn't ask for.
My neighborhood wants one lousy stop sign (for years there have been meetings about it)...but it never happens. But Arlington is gonna get a trolley. Where did THAT idea come from?
These politicians need to go home. The 24-7-365 wild ass scheme generators (that we pay for) need to be shut down.

[narciso]

Except I trust the gators in the bayou, more than the Louisiana legislature, they were the ones who 'accidentally' voted for the stimulus, because they flipped the wrong switch, all of them,

[narciso]

A trolley, what is this Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, now, scratch that they would have more sense over there.

[henry]

Milwaukee Mayor Barrett is also fixated on a trolley from/to nowhere -- it's all part of the porkulus giveaways and needed lubricant for local Dem machines. That the trolley will carry no passengers, clog Milwaukee main streets, force relaying phone and electric lines, and require an operating budget the city can't afford has no meaning -- Barrett needs his legacy and graft is the only path for him to get one.

[pagar]

Janet I agree with your assessment of the political class and news media. However I disagree on some of the normal Americans.
Here are some of the organizations and people who are helping the Obama regime grab guns from decent law abiding people.

http://noisyroom.net/blog/2013/01/08/nra-releases-list-of-celebrities-organizations-that-support-gun-control/

If you believe in a free America, do not support the listed groups.

As near as I can tell gun control means disarming decent law abiding people while doing nothing about people who do not obey the law. Illinois has apparently decided to issue drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

[narciso]

Colonel O'Neil, and his boss at StarGate command,
shame, Rebecca De Mornay hasn't been relevant in a long time,

[narciso]

'Chip Dillard' I guess I'm not surprised, that's Kevin Bacon, whose doing that series about serial killers, and Andy Garcia, how reliable is this list,

[Thomas Collins]

Sue, I hope the pain meds aren't preventing you from following the really important stuff, such as the Red Sox/Mike Napoli saga. Red Sox GM Ben Cherington was on sports talk radio yesterday. It is clear that Napoli's supposed supposed signing with the Sox is far from a done deal. There was no speculation on where Napoli would go if the negotiations with the Sox fell through.

[narciso]

Btw, they fired Malarkey of the Jaguars, although I think they sent the message by carrier pigeon,

[rse]

Add Atlanta to the cities determined to bring back trolleys. Here I know it is tied to the Greening/ICLEI movement.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Everyone in the world needs a large capacity AR15 magazine, even if they don’t own a gun.

Don't try it in NY, sb. They never sunsetted the 1994 "Assault" Weapons ban. 10's the max.

[Andrew Sullivan]

Ewwww. Gotta go.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Don't try it in NY, sb.--

Good thing the guys at Lexington didn't think that way.

[Clarice]

Maybe instead of Platinum they could fashion the coins out of something else--say encapsulated cocaine.That stuff's worth a grand a kilo. Fight bankruptcy an the war on drugs at the same time.

[Tom Maguire]

Try following this while taking pain meds.

You mean there is another way?

Good luck.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Rockefeller will not seek a 6th term.

[AliceH]

--Posted by: pagar | January 11, 2013 at 09:07 AM--

Wow. For some reason, there is an inordinately large percentage of KC and STL MO companies in the corporation section of that list. That surprised me.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

They must be wingnuts:

"The Obama administration is considering funding many more police officers in public schools to secure campuses, a leading Democratic senator said, part of a broad gun violence agenda that is likely to include a ban on high-capacity ammunition clips and universal background checks."

[narciso]

If Yglesias made sense, then Soros wouldn't pay him,

[Melinda Romanoff]

More unionized government employees, locally financed?

Never saw that coming....

[Janet]

Milwaukee Mayor Barrett is also fixated on a trolley from/to nowhere

henry & rse - It was uncovered that one of our County Board members got a consulting job with AECOM...I wrote on FB - "Zimmerman's consulting job with AECOM is very sketchy - "AECOM is a global company that has worked with Arlington County on numerous projects, including some involved with the Columbia Pike streetcar — of which Zimmerman is a chief proponent — and was one of the companies to brief the board on best practices regarding public-private partnerships last month"

Are all the same companies getting the city contracts for the ICLEI ideas? I see the same orange bikes in all the cities (with the subsidized bike share idea).

City governments & their spouses, children, relatives & friends should be checked if they are getting "consulting" jobs with these companies. What are the conflict of interest tie-ins with "green", sustainable development big business?

[narciso]

But I thought that was 'doubleunplusgood'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-considers-funding-for-police-in-schools-after-newtown/2013/01/10/e0044e58-5b3f-11e2-9fa9-5fbdc9530eb9_story.html

[Captain Hate]

Don't worry; Top Men are all over this: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/11/Steele-s-Competitive-Bidding-Resolution-Was-Ignored-at-RNC-in-2011-12-Cycle?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BreitbartFeed+%28Breitbart+Feed%29

[Melinda Romanoff]

Janet-

Now you see how the crony system finances itself. One nice, big circle.

[narciso]

Duke and Duke, couldn't get their piece of the action, Captain, and that was the important thing.

[Captain Hate]

It's a good thing you don't live in NYC, because Mayor Bloomberg doesn't think you should be allowed to have the meds at all

Nanny knows best

[Captain Hate]

But the results were so good, narc. Oh wait...

[Rick Ballard]

AliceH,

Duke & Duke took a hit in Missouri with the election of Martin as state GOP chair. The super majority control of the legislature is going to be interesting to watch over the next year or two.

[jimmyk]

Maybe instead of Platinum they could fashion the coins out of something else--say encapsulated cocaine.That stuff's worth a grand a kilo.

According to this site, antimatter is the most expensive substance. Plus, if the government produced a large enough antimatter coin, perhaps it would result in smaller government via physics.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-valuable-substances-by-weight-2011-11?op=1

[jimmyk]

This guy suggests the Treasury can just keep writing checks, and the Fed can honor them, effectively letting the Treasury print money.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43899646/Can_The_Treasury_Department_Really_Run_Out_of_Money

That's basically what the Fed's been doing anyway with the debt.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

What are harder to dislodge on a national level gangsters or True Believers?

Seems to me there are very few Dems who actually believe any of the claptrap vomited on to the stage by geniuses like Krugman or Friedman anymore and that the transformation of the Dem party into a national Tammany Hall from the ideologically driven party of FDR, Humphrey and McGovern is nearly complete.

I realize there have always been gangsters and the there are still True Believers. I'm referring to who dominates the Dem asylum nationally.

[Threadkiller]

--"we don't have 18,000 tons of platinum for a bullion coin..."--

[Platinum] is used (30%) as a catalyst in the catalytic converter, an optional component of the gasoline-fuelled automobile exhaust system. The largest use (50%) of platinum is for jewellery.

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/pt.htm#ixzz2HgEV0Uqt

Women, catalytic converters, and the environment hardest hit...

[Clarice]

jimmyk, that is sheer genius. Matched only by the international gangsters idea of taxing air.

[narciso]

The Germans didn't run out of reich marks, either, they just lost all value,

[pagar]

"More unionized government employees, locally financed?"

I've seen several suggestions talking about volunteers from retired military etc. IMO, it is an idea that needs to be explored. The leftists will always want to create more government employees, but government employees suck money out of taxpayers. We need to find ways of doing things without more government employees.

[narciso]

Yes, but they will go the TSA route,

[Melinda Romanoff]

TK-

Not so fast on the Converter. Check out Clean Diesel Technology, Inc. Not there yet, but getting close. No platinum need apply.

[Melinda Romanoff]

TK-

Free linkie to some data.

[narciso]

This is not a one off for him, either;

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100370451

[narciso]

Yes, it's intentional;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/11/so-what-is-an-assault-rifle-really-we-look-at-the-definitions-and-how-the-term-is-demonized/

[rse]

Janet-Conflict of interest is the primary driver. Living at expense of taxpayer at rates of compensation markets would never create.

Just this week had to deal with a former school deputy super who had started her own ed consulting company. She had also made herself the head of the school's Governing Council. She caught my attention with lying at a public meeting which is when I found out she had left district. She continued her shenanigans until the see no evil types had no choice. She went from insisting there was no conflict in her eyes to everyone knew that she did business with the district so there was no conflict. Next attempt was to declare on Monday the school district had waived any conflict. That left me to explain the district could not waive the conflict because it was a charter and they were not the only stakeholder.

She is actually digging a very large beneficial hole for me because it so perfectly illustrates that the conflicts come from insisting on pushing cutting edge grab power reforms that harm teachers and students.

I personally think the motto "we are the parasite class that gets to live well at public expense" should be used to describe all these arrangements.

[narciso]

That only applies with private military contractors, rse, which are evil by nature,
or at least that is their thinking;

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/01/11/richard-grenell-tweets-better-anti-violence-ideas-than-anything-sheriff-biden-is-likely-to-come-up-with/

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Not so fast on the Converter. Check out Clean Diesel Technology, Inc. Not there yet, but getting close. No platinum need apply.--

Several of their technologies still seem to use platinum.
They do however also provide the handy tank for those long trips where your diesel's urea needs coincide with your own bodies need to excrete some.
Some day will it be a common sight along the highways to see guys standing behind their vehicles, only facing them rather than with their back to them?

[narciso]

They really act as if this were something new, but someone forgot the 'first rule of fight club':

http://freebeacon.com/a-conspiracy-so-immense/

[Melinda Romanoff]

Ig-

Check out the link I provided. Been following them for a bit.

[narciso]

Some of the specifics of the Feinstein bill, maybe;

http://thejacksonpress.org/?p=1252

It is as arbitrary as Carolyn McCarthy's musings

[Clarice]

Not all the news is gri today, Jay Rockefeller announced he's not running for re-election next year. If the Reps don't run a bozo--that should be a pick up seat.

[Melinda Romanoff]

narciso-

Isn't that an interesting bit at The Free Beacon.

[Clarice]

It's not all good news either. As Hot Air notes, now that he doesn't have to worry about re-election he can vote without care for Obama's agenda.

[Sue]

Thanks dear leader.

TC,

I'm about to google. Didn't realize there was a Napoli saga going on.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Ig-

Check out the link I provided.--

I did, Mel. That's where I got the info several of their technologies still seem to use platinum.

[pagar]

"Yes, but they will go the TSA route,"

Only if the American voters let them.

[Jim Eagle]

GOP alive, well and raising money in Florida.

GOP Florida raised over $2.5 million last quarter. The Dems? Not much - only $400K+ . Florida House Speaker Will Wetherford raised more than the whole Dem party in Florida.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Ah, I've been watching some of their non-platinum approaches. Got a little too focused. Thanks for the heads up.

[Threadkiller]

Very interesting Mel. Here is their flyer that they submitted to CARB:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/diesel/showcase/files/products/23-cdt-platinum-plus-purifier-filter.pdf

A glorified piss-bottle that uses proprietary tinkle.

[Threadkiller]

Oops. That is a platinum model.

[Threadkiller]

Here is a Platinum based converter:

It takes piss too.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Heh.

[Jim Eagle]

We have a trillion dollar plant called Savannah River Nuclear Complex that produces lots of Tritium as Nuclear weapon triggers. We could skim off 10% of the production and start making a Tritium coin. Would save a lot of weight.

The problem with anti-matter is the same with lots of exotic technology. It costs more to produce it than what it is worth.

[Thomas Collins]

Sue, see LUN for a report on Cherington's interview yesterday on the WEEI Radio Hot Stove Show.

[sbw]

email just received:

When hurricane Sandy struck the East Coast, even houses of worship were not spared.

A local television station interviewed a black woman from New Jersey and asked how the loss of churches in the area would affected their lives.

Without hesitation, the woman replied, "I don't know 'bout ‘dem other people, but we ain't gone to Churches in years. We gets our chicken from Popeye's."

The look on the interviewer's face was priceless.

They live among us, and they vote ... Now, do you understand how we got our president

[AliceH]

sbw - I don't believe it.

[Melinda Romanoff]

JiB-

I'll let you hold onto that coin for me.

Especially the anti-matter one.

Thanks.

[Threadkiller]

http://youtu.be/84t2XuBHXT4

[NK]

MelR/JimmyK et al-- this platinum coin nonsense doesn't happen in a vacuum. More stories-- in the NYT and now Bloomberg News for God's sake-- that Fed Presidents acknowledge the QE bond purchases are risky and could backfire with massive inflation. So the Fed is rightly nervous that the maniacs in Congress and the Obamaniacs could make things worse, much worse, on the debt front. BTW-- if you read the link, there is a Bloomberg News video about the USS Zumwalt class of destroyer, hey let's kill 2 birds, by making the USS Zumwalt out of 8,000 TONs of platinum! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-11/fed-s-plosser-says-stimulus-may-backfire-fuel-inflation.html

[narciso]

Well as long as you keep in a magnetic field, it should be 'relatively same,' of course when the field runs down. . .

[Rocco]

We should start a campaign to solicit money for gift memberships to the NRA for our most vocal anti gun politicians.

https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/gift.asp

[James D.]

Plus, if the government produced a large enough antimatter coin, perhaps it would result in smaller government via physics.

I've got a slightly more practical idea, and I'd even support the government doing it, with one slight condition:

Mint the coin out of plutonium.

The condition? The President or a Cabinet Secretary must carry the coin on their person at all times...

[narciso]

Compare and contrast;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/01/miles-apart-walker-to-cut-income-tax-rahm-to-ban-guns/#comments

[James D.]

By the way, I think I might actually loathe Nanny Bloomberg even more than Zero and his crowd. There's more about his new plan to prevent doctors from doing their jobs, and keep patients suffering, at the LUN. My favorite bit:

“Number one, there’s no evidence of that. Number two, supposing it is really true so you didn’t get enough painkillers and you did have to suffer a little bit. The other side of the coin is people are dying and there’s nothing perfect….There’s nothing that you can possibly do where somebody isn’t going to suffer and it’s always the same group [claiming], ‘Everybody is heartless.’ Come on, this is a very big problem.”

I would like to see him meet the same end as Mussolini, and I'm allowed to say that because I'm possibly distantly related to Mussolini's mistress, who did share his fate.

[Gus]

Maybe after we pay our debts with PRETEND MONEY, we can mint Gold Plated Cadillacs for everyone!!
Who would have thunk that LIBTARDS could get us out of debt so easily!!!

[Janet]

Wow, rse.
It's like if a big evil drug company made up a disease...got the MFM to write articles on the horrible made up disease...got cities to write laws about stopping the made up disease....& then the drug company sold high priced sugar pills to cure the made up disease.

Big Green, Big Sustainable Development, & Big Education can get away with this crap. :(

[NK]

This is the NYC I grew up in as far as poiticians are concerned-- liberal, conservative, socialist ar nativist, they tended to be blunt and personalize the politics-- Ed Koch at 88 in the link. In 1974 StuyvesantHS did a week of "mini courses" during Spring Break week-- informally organized by teachers, but mainly students. One of the ones I attended was NYC Politics, the speaker-- Silk Stocking District Congressman Ed Koch. In Q&A one kid asked "are all politicians corrupt" Koch put up his hand in stop pose and said NO!!-- 90% are honest, the other 10% are REAL CROOKS-- they tend to be Southern Democrats." Never forgot that: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/11/ed-koch-at-88-new-york-s-still-outspoken-ex-mayor-holds-no-grudges.html

[cathyf]

Asked this on the other thread before I realized everybody moved over here:

If the Trustees redeem Trust Fund assets and the Treasury pays then back by selling debt to the public then (a) debt held by the Trust Fund falls; (b) debt held by the public rises; and (c) total debt remains unchanged.

Question for you legal beagles as to how the SS Trust Fund is constructed: suppose this happens -- the Trustees redeem Trust Fund assets and the Treasury pays them back by selling debt to the public -- do the proceeds of that process have to be used to pay social security (or medicare) benefits? Or can Barry I give the money to his friends in the solar panel, wind, electric car, etc. industry?

(I mean assuming that we still have some semblance of the rule of law.)

[pagar]

"The Dems? Not much - only $400K+ "

Why would any American donate to a Democrat?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Number two, supposing it is really true so you didn’t get enough painkillers and you did have to suffer a little bit.--

Like James D, my loathing of a prig like Bloomberg is essentially boundless.
You can bet that not only does the sawed off little shit have a half dozen guys with guns guarding his worthless hide at any one time but that when his number comes up he'll be sure and indulge as many painkillers and life extending technologies as money can buy.

[Threadkiller]

Future Nelly-möller:

"...then they came for my platinum grillz and there was nobody left to rap for me..."

[Soylent Red]

The condition? The President or a Cabinet Secretary must carry the coin on their person at all times...

The President. Clenched between his teeth.

That eliminates the lesser problem of having to listen to him talk as well.

[NK]

Ig@12:00-- you left out one thing-- when current life extension technology fails-- Bloomie will have his brain/body cryogenically froze until such time technology to cure him exists and he can be revived-- because Mayor Mikey knows THE WORLD cannot go on without him.

[GMax]

Making fun of Iglesias? What sport is there in that? I mean I bet you like to make fun of the retarded too...

[NK]

Gmax@12:03-- functional equivalents in Iglesias' case...

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Cathy, if there is any semblance of law I don't see how those special bonds could be used for anything other than SS.
If they can then SS is orders of magnitude more broken (and broke) than their calculations describe.

[Free State Paul]

In all seriousness, the fact that this "platinum coin" idea was even spoken aloud, much less taken seriously by anyone of any consequence, just goes to prove what an Idiocracy our nation has become. Our leaders are idiots. Our journalists are idiots. Even our law professors are idiots.

I'm glad I'm old enough (55) to remember when the United States of America wasn't a total, pathetic joke.

[narciso]

'Blue Steel, Le Tigre, it's the same face, am I the only one not on crazy pills' The absurdity
that we keep getting inundated with, is a little overwhelming,