Former Times Editor "Covers" Gun Owner Privacy

Former Times editor and now op-ed columnist Bill Keller ruminates about the press' right to publish and the public's right to privacy. He includes this tidbit in describing his thought process (my emphasis):

Which brings me back to The Journal News and its gun project. I sympathize with the paper’s effort to dramatize the commonplace reality of gun ownership at a time when the subject is so sadly on our minds. I don’t buy the gun owners’ assertion that the disclosure is an invitation to burglars in search of firearms; on the contrary, the publicity sends criminals the same message as those front-door notices of your home alarm system: Try next door.

He doesn't buy it? Oh, those daffy gun-owners! Of course, maybe he doesn't buy it because he limits his reading to the Times, which seems to have missed the story noted in their down-market rival Newsday:

Journal News gun permit map used by burglars to target White Plains home?

We do note the question mark.

A White Plains residence pinpointed on a controversial handgun permit database was burglarized Saturday, and the burglars' target was the homeowner's gun safe.

At least two burglars broke into a home on Davis Avenue at 9:30 p.m. Saturday but were unsuccessful in an attempt to open the safe, which contained legally owned weapons, according to a law enforcement source. One suspect was taken into custody, the source said.

The gun owner was not home when the burglary occurred, the source said. The victim, who is in his 70s, told Newsday on Sunday that he did not want to comment while the police investigation continues.

...

The homeowner's name and address were included recently on the controversial interactive map of gun permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties published on The Journal News' website.

A suspect is in custody, the matter is under investigation, and there may be no connection. After all, if Willie Sutton could figure out to rob banks becasue that is where the money is, home burglars ought to be capable of a similar leap of logic when they find a home safe.

That said, for Bil Keller to blithlely dismiss a possible connection his paper hasn't even reported strikes me as yet another example of their famous "All The New That Fits The Agenda" reporting.

To be fair, Keller eventually comes out against the gun-owner next door project:

But when you are going to make a sizable population of law-abiding citizens feel violated, you have to ask yourself, what is the offsetting gain? In this case, I think, not much. The information The Journal News provided its readers is so far from complete as to be misleading. The public records identify only legal handguns. They tell you nothing about the neighbor who has an equally legal and equally lethal rifle or shotgun, let alone an illegal weapon. The publication has not spurred a healthy debate; it has merely escalated a shouting match, and given the N.R.A. a new rallying cry. The outcry may even provoke state legislatures to withdraw gun databases from public records, so they will not be available when they might really be useful. It’s a close call, but I’d have found a different way to make the point.

A close call? Well, if we poo-pooh the fear of legal permit holders becoming targeted, it may seem close.

Comments

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

-- The outcry may even provoke state legislatures to withdraw gun databases from public records--

Why are they public to begin with?

[hit and run]

I don’t buy the gun owners’ assertion that the disclosure is an invitation to burglars in search of firearms; on the contrary, the publicity sends criminals the same message as those front-door notices of your home alarm system: Try next door.

"A burglar, even if he knows you are not home, will not attempt to burgle your house if he knows that there are guns in there because as we all know, people don't kill people, guns kill people. Thus, an unmanned gun is every bit the deterrent that an alarm system is."
--stuff Keller (basically just) said

[Captain Hate]

Keller seems like he's more concerned about criminals getting tuned up than he is about law abiding citizens.

[NK]

Ig-- historically the NYS Repub Senate has passed bills ending FOIA (FOIL) access to registration databases, and the Dem owned State Assembly never passes the bill.

For the rest of JOM readers, Bill Keller is in fact both an exemplar and reflective of the NYC Metro Area Culture-- he is a 21st Century Pauline Kael-- 300+Million guns in this country and Bill Keller doesn't know a single person who owns one. We should all revere JimmyK, he lives in the belly of the beast on the UWS with these people.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I don’t buy the gun owners’ assertion that the disclosure is an invitation to burglars in search of firearms; on the contrary, the publicity sends criminals the same message as those front-door notices of your home alarm system: Try next door.--

I'm pleased Keller admits gun ownership deters crime, now perhaps he can study the difference between voluntarily posting a sign on one's front door and having your info involuntarily spread far and wide in a newspaper.

[narciso]

They let anyone even convicted embesslers pipe off, nowadays, in the LUN. Frank Abagnale who used to be in the identity theft business, piped up how dangerous this wasy.

[steve]

You're not seeing the big picture.

This isn't about guns per se, and their role in shootings, mass or otherwise. As clueless as they might seem, the liberal gun control side knows that banning a gun on the basis of how mean it looks is going to have no impact on crime.

No, this is just another liberal assault on conservatism and conservatives themselves. The liberals are aiming (yes, pun intended) to depict conservatives as not only being indifferent to the needs of others (why else would we oppose 'common sense' limitations on guns?) They want to depict anyone who defends gun ownership as being outside the mainstream (with mainstream defined as willing to do anything to 'protect the kids') and thus unworthy of elected office. Yes, Dorothy, this is merely the extension of their permanent campaign to bolster their election odds.

They also want to target us on account that we're conservative. They want us to suffer from whatever they can think of to do to us. Publish our names and addresses in hopes that our neighbors snicker at us or that our homes get targeted for burglary? Sure? Boycott our businesses because we don't back the same things they do? Sure. According to liberal doctrine, all is fair in love and trying to make a conservative's life as miserable as possible.

[Captain Hate]

Dear God, I just heard a clip of Jodie Foster from last night. Has she either shut up or said anything worth hearing yet? What an idiot.

[NK]

Ig@11:01-- Keller will never make that connection because of the mental illness which afflicks him. The mental illness that drives Keller to believe that the 4th/5th amendments demand an 'exclusionary rule' to protect criminals from conviction 'when the policeman blunders' and prevents the NYPD from keeping NYC from turning into ChiTown or Detroit because they can no longer 'stop and frisk' trespassers in low income housing or on the streets where drug dealers shoot each other and the innocent-- YET the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect the law abiding citizen. It is madness, a mental illness. I have to say the Left like Keller have radicalized me from 2nd Amendment agnostic to true believer -- and I'm not even a gun owner.

[Extraneus]

NY to limit magazine capacity to 7 rounds

[Clarice]

I still don't have a gun--they are too hard to get a license for here in DC..even after the Ct rulings. Maybe I should just get an NRA sticker and put it on my door.

Very funny, hit.

[marlene]

CH, I couldn't believe some of the clips I saw from the awards show last night. Self-adoration,blah,blah,blah. Bill Clinton looked awful.What is wrong with him?

[Rick Ballard]

"so they will not be available when they might really be useful"

I wonder what day Keller imagines that might be? ISTM the purpose of the current bout of histrionics is to reinforce "gun = doubleplusungood" groupthought among those amenable to the Skinnerian conditioning requisite for true progress towards a totalitarian state.

The alacrity with which the attempted burglary was solved is a little puzzling until thought is given to the great distaste displayed by the leadership of the security apparat to having members addresses disclosed. Getting the security apparat to even fill out a crime report regarding attempted theft can be a struggle. It appears that this case drew CSI White Plains into action.

[NK]

CaptH-- I like Jodie Foster-- can't say why. So she's a film actor and director who used the stage for self-indulgent speechifying about being misunderstood and lonely? In other news -- sun to rise in east tomorrow.

[Captain Hate]

marlene, chasing cooter at Slick's age can't be good for his longevity. We knew he wouldn't age gracefully (why start now?); the only question was the number and details of the scandals.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Bill Clinton looked awful.What is wrong with him?--

How much time ya got?

[NK]

Quad by-pass-- Our Boy Bill must have a hard time with cardio-vascular activity. He's not a healthy man. Hillary's not a healthy man either (no that's not a typo)

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--CH, I couldn't believe some of the clips I saw from the awards show last night.--

I'll bet they were all low capacity.

[Captain Hate]

CaptH-- I like Jodie Foster-- can't say why. So she's a film actor and director who used the stage for self-indulgent speechifying about being misunderstood and lonely?

I like Robert Duvall; if I ever heard him say something as self centered and dimwitted I might feel otherwise.

[Melinda Romanoff]

marlene,

The heart issues have altered alot of things for him.

[narciso]

He doesn't make such remarks, he has a small part in that Jack Reacher film.

[Danube of Thought]

...withdraw gun databases from public records, so they will not be available when they might really be useful

And when would that be?

[Captain Hate]

Duvall has worked with Cruise before in the movie about NASCAR racing; I've watched it multiple times on tv just to watch Robert make the role come alive.

[narciso]

And I saw, that Nick Searcy, Raylan's supervisor on 'Justified' got his start in that film.

[Captain Hate]

Yes DoT, the only reason that list would become "useful" would either be to confiscate or tax them.

[Clarice]

I viewed a video of her speech, CH. I didn't have a problem with it. It seemed to me she was justifying herself to the critics who had insisted she come out of the closet; she was heartfelt in her praise for others and her comments about Gibson surely must have caused a short circuit in the brains of those Hollywood types who only see people in stick figure stereotypes.

[marlene]

Ha,Ignatz,speaking of clips.I mentioned we had an day long session of handgun training on Saturday.We trained with Sig Sauer 9mm. I fumbled with those magazines like a dumb girl. :) So it is probably better that my husband purchased a revolver for me.
The instructors were very patient.It was quite an experience.

[Jim Eagle]

Jodie Foster reminds me that there are instances of Hollywood inciting gun violence and on a sitting President. DeNiro and Keitel were also part of that Scorese classic Taxi Driver.

Wonder why Uncle Joe hasn't called them in to give some sound advice?

[NK]

CBS News claims new autopsy results show Natalie Wood beaten BEFORE she drowned. OK who did it? Robert Wagner? Christopher Walken? Both? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2262234/Natalie-Wood-New-coroners-report-questions-finding-original-autopsy-actress-1981-death.html

[narciso]

They probably were all signatories to that foolish petition, and yet they all have bodyguards,

[NK]

Keitel's coke dealer acting in "Taxi Driver" was unbelievably true to life.

[Melinda Romanoff]

JiB-

A seance with Peckinpah might be more productive.

[Captain Hate]

Ok C; I'll defer to you having endured the whole thing which obviously contained some things I didn't hear. I still don't like her and will now just shut up about it; unless hectored to respond to a direct question.

[Captain Hate]

Keitel's coke dealer acting in "Taxi Driver" was unbelievably true to life.

For Harvey or coke dealers?

[narciso]

And some wardrobe choices, are a little too daring, you think in the LUN

[NK]

OT-- "Bullitt" with Steve McQueen was on Classic Movies. I was never a fan of the 60s "Dark Hero" genre. But Bullitt is always watchable because of the McQueen cool factor, which hit its peak in Mag Seven, Great Escape, and then Bullitt -- in Bullitt he went all in -- he had the 'Tude, the Turtleneck, the desert boots (Daniel Craig grabbed those for his 007 character) and the '68 Mustang 325. All of us aspire to be McQueen, only Ig achieves that level of cool.

[Captain Hate]

The children of the cornhole on debt strategery: http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111864/obama-no-platinum-coin-treasury-republican-debt-ceiling-hostage-extortion?utm_source=The+New+Republic&utm_campaign=b4091b52b9-TNR_Daily_011413_Non-NYC&utm_medium=email#

[AliceH]

Way to go, Marlene! I'm envious.

[Danube of Thought]

I don't know anyone who hasn't been aware for at least ten years that Jodie Foster is gay.

[Captain Hate]

And some wardrobe choices, are a little too daring, you think

Sydney Bristow looks oddly mashed in and up.

[NK]

CaptH be nice to Harvey, before his acting and coke habit (I know same thing) he was a US Marine-- enlisted at 17 or so and served in Eisenhower's Police Action in Lebanon. He is a proud retired marine and when I was doing my Navy league volunteer stuff in the 80s-90s-- he was a generous supporter with time and money. I believe he sincerely loves the grunts.

[narciso]

Yes, plus he also had a part in 'Road to 9/11' as FBI agent O'Neil, I'm sure that will be on DVD any decade now, snarc;

[NK]

OT-- persistent helo activity and NYPD sirens in the UN area-- any Internet news of -- umm-- activity around the UN? The Muzzies say thy are unhappy with Les Frogs.

[Dave (in MA)]

Path.

[Captain Hate]

NK, I like Harvey (being part of the execrable The Piano notwithstanding) and thought his role of John O'Neill in "The Path to 9/11" was a nice thumb in the eye to the group think of Hollywood. The Bad Lieutenant was pretty brutal though. I particularly liked him in "Smoke" although he's very good in just about every role I've seen.

[narciso]

Yes, 'this is just getting, better and better'

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/14/islamists-vow-to-strike-at-the-heart-of-france-after-mali-intervention/

[Captain Hate]

I'm sure that will be on DVD any decade now, snarc

http://www.amazon.com/Blocking-The-Path-To-11/dp/B001GLLNNA

[matt]

Foster is intensely private, so I respect that. It must be tough to be alone the way she is now. Top of the world, and yet no one to share it with. To open oneself up like that takes guts.

As to magazines, Mr. Browning decided 7 was okay in .45 cal, and 13-14 in 9mm is the standard, also influenced by Mr. Browning, I believe. The NY kabuki will probably get settled in court, hopefully upstate.

[glenda]

Oh, mercy........
When will anyone have courage to act like a free press/public right to know now Pravda media ask this Dictator how he can subvert the 2nd amendment by executive order? How he can call out "certain members of Republicans", i.e.
true conservatives--many voted in by Tea Party patriots on his spending spree that is the ANSWER to resolving budget? He never will be reasonable--his budgets are beyond extreme. He takes our tax money (not his rich benefactors whom his party exempts) and spends spends spends.
Please someone in Congress have the spine and courage and patriotism to shut down this hypocritical enemy of our independence.
Won the argument, he says; because the people agreed....buddy you won because DC agreed and the sheep you keep in cellphones and unemployment were herded to the polls. The heart and soul of America either held their nose and voted for another
RINO or they stayed home--opting to work for a true conservative, maybe someone from a new party to be formed--to be elected in '16.
History will remember this era as the Dark Ages of our Republic..when no term-limit congressmen exempted themselves from what we, the peons; pay. All for a special interest government of greed, me, me, me but not THEE!

[bgates]

Journalism School Admission Test

Q1) Complete the following sentence:
When you are going to make a sizable population of law-abiding citizens feel violated, you have to

A) "realize you're about to make a mistake, and choose a different course of action."
B) "ask yourself, what is the offsetting gain?"

Q2) When reporting on a subject which has stirred powerful emotions, as in the aftermath of a horrible tragedy or crime, the responsible journalist seeks to:

A) Inform in a dispassionate, sober manner.
B) Dramatize the commonplace reality.

Q3) What (if anything is wrong) with making a sizable population of law-abiding citizens feel violated by publishing a database of legally owned handguns?

A) It fails to make law-abiding owners of rifles and shotguns feel violated
B) It can be used to win support for the ideological opponents of your neutral and nonpartisan news organization
C) It could lead to the government making it impossible to make a sizable population of law-abiding citizens of legal handguns feel violated in the future
D) It assists criminals in targeting those who follow the advice of your nonideological news organization to renounce gun ownership
E) All of the above

[NK]

CaptH-- "The Piano" I had forgotten about that-- the full frontal mooment was just not a good idea for harvey.

Matt-- I do like Foster, she's no great actor or director, so I guess I like because of her very high intelligence level, her demand for privacy about her sexuality, and the whole straight guy intrigued by attractive lesbian thing.

[Danube of Thought]

Harvey Keitel, USMC:

[NK]

bgates-- it's like you are our own private IowaHawk. You're the best.

[NK]

DoT-- was that photo in some kind of USMC hair regulation lax period? Those sides are not quite high or tight enough...

[rse]

glenda-I don't think spen, spend, spend is the right term. That would suggest something govt has to show for it when everything is said and done.

I think a more accurate way to describe this trillion dollar budgets is transfer, transfer, transfer. much of it for the benefit of reliable constituent groups or for corrupting individuals and sectors as in education and climate change. It offers non-market compensation to people where there is not even a real market for what they actually know or can do.

Even worse it's gone. When each dollar going into education or climate change is designed to weaken the individual or the economy we end up even worse off beyond the loss of tax money to public sector. We are pushing expensive public policies that will make it that much harder to raise that dollar of public revenue in future. When education becomes determined to destroy the division of labor and you are borrowing the money to do that, the abyss is coming even faster than the awful aggregate debt shows.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Bullitt was cool because of the black 68 Charger R/T.
BTW, just to tweak any Ford fans out there I read an interview with the famous stunt driver in the Charger one time who said he had to keep it at 3/4 throttle through the whole shoot to let McQueen's Mustang keep up. :)

--All of us aspire to be McQueen, only Ig achieves that level of cool.--

I'd rather be dead in a ditch than wear a turtleneck but I did have a neighbor for years who knew McQueen fairly well. He had a whole building full of old Indians and a few Harley's he rebuilt and restored and sold a few to McQueen and rode with him a few times. Said he was actually pretty laid back, enjoyable company, at least when he was around.
I redid the stock on the old guy's Winchester Model 21. One of the nicest guys ever.

[Danube of Thought]

her demand for privacy about her sexuality

So she talks about it on national TV?

[Captain Hate]

just to tweak any Ford fans out there

Found On Roadside Dead
Fast Oxidation Rapid Depreciation

That Charger was a beast; I had doubts about the Mustang's ability to outperform it in anything except cornering.

[narciso]

Well they didn't take the administration's pelf, I think that is the right word, among the big 3 automakers.

[Extraneus]

Anyone up for the Python Challenge?

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and its partners are launching the 2013 Python Challenge™ to enlist both the general public and python permit holders in a month-long harvest of Burmese pythons.

[NK]

Is someone referring to an auto model made by that Italo-Co named Fix It Again Tony?

[maryrose]

rse:
You are absolutely correct. We have nothing to show for the stimulus except payoff to election backers and bankrupt solar energy companies.
glenda: You are superb in your analysis of what is wrong with Obama.
bgates: You are the best.
I caught 30 seconds of Obama while switching channels and immediately felt like I had to hurl.

[NK]

DoT-- I thought my comment made clear that my appreciation for Foster was based mostly on the third criterion.

[Captain Hate]

Yes narc, they were alone at the top on that.

The first new car I bought was a Mustang II (boredom zero). Right after the warranty ran out the overhead cam got a notch worn into it that made a nice irritating valve tapping sound. After that I bought a Plymouth Voyager, which was great for hauling things around when you have children. I had to replace a head gasket because of the electrolysis produced when you put an aluminum head on an iron engine block (you'd think somebody could've taken that basic fact into account). It's been Toyotas ever since.

[Soylent Red]

I don’t buy the gun owners’ assertion that the disclosure is an invitation to burglars in search of firearms

Here, here!

I, for one, don't buy the assertion that publishing detailed information about journalists, their spouses and children, locations of their homes, workplaces, schools, gyms, etc, detailed route maps of how they all travel to these locations and when, is an invitation for trouble. First Amendment!1!!11Eleventy!1!!!1

Because real journalism means never having to say you're sorry.

All of us aspire to be McQueen
I aspire to an amalgam of all of his movie characters, plus motorcycle and racing car enthusiast. He was a pretty iconic cool dude/man's man in general, but he had some serious moonbat tendencies later on in his life.

But, I have a nicely framed poster of Steve navigating his Bonneville through NYC traffic on my office wall. When I find it, there's another photo of Clint on his Bonneville, with some fawning 60s dish on the back, that I'd like to have a similar treatment made to hang next to it. As cool dudes go, you can't beat those two guys.

And I saw, that Nick Searcy, Raylan's supervisor on 'Justified' got his start in that film.
For those who don't know already, Searcy is an admitted AoS Moron. He has a pretty amusing website and YouTube channel as well, mocking actors and the Hollywood lifestyle.

[narciso]

Just an aside re the audience, which should be against the Geneva and Vienna conventions

@DLoesch: After talking gun control, Prez refers to debt ceiling as “holding a gun to the head of the American people.”

[maryrose]

I love Jodie Foster as an actress and was pleased Mel Gibson was at her table when she was honored. The fact that Robert Downey Jr. introduced her also intrigued me. She doesn't fit into the usual hollywood stereotype because she is smart.I was still surprised at her candor and you can't beat her body of work. If she wants privacy,let her have it. Her two boys looked proud and pleased. Real people like Sally Field should embrace her and bring her in. Anne Hathaway had a fabukous speech with a shout out to sally Field starting out as the flying nun. I loved Jennifer from "Hunger Games" saying"I beat Meryl!"
Tina Fey and Amy Poehler are laugh out loud funny to me but I am quirky that way. Glenn Close pretending to be wasted-also quite fun.

[maryrose]

I loved Jennifer Garner's dress-it is supposed to look mashed in and Lucy Liu's gown was stunning.

[James D.]

I was out at lunch and saw on the TVs that Zero was on. I had to avert my eyes in order not to spoil my appetite, but did he say anything of any value whatsoever?

Were there any questions that were not fawning or transparently designed to advance Dem/MSM causes?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I liked Jodie Foster when she did those kid roles as a youngster.
Since then? Meh.
Attractive? Double, meh.

[maryrose]

narciso:
That comment is what the bottom of the screen ticker feed had posted. His argumentative and aggressive tone is what is so abhorent to me. He really is a nasty, LITTLE man with nothing worthwhile to say. I can't wait to be shot of him.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--did he say anything of any value whatsoever--

Might as well close down the laugh-line-of-the-week contest; James D FTW.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I can't wait to be shot of him.--

Let us know how the Secret Service interview goes Maryrose. :)

[narciso]

It's more like a bar tab, which is in collections;

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/obama-we-cant-go-to-restaurant-and-eat-and-not-pay-your-bill-video/

[maryrose]

DOT:
I think Foster brought it up on TV because she doesn't want to be defined by it. The media really fixates on dumbass stuff instead of realizing what a tremendous range of ability in acting that she possesses. Many are jealous of her talent and like to diminish her by focusing on unimportant details. Sounds like I am talking about Obama.
I also think Clinton looks worse than I have ever seen him and that's with the help of a Hollywood make-up artist.
I have to admit, I do love the fashion part of the awards night.

[Cecil Turner]

I remember gun control advocates arguing that gun ownership made burglary more likely (and hence was another reason not to own guns). The recent foofraw interferes with googling on the subject, but it was fairly easy to come up with an example:

One reason may be that guns, like cash and jewelry, are attractive loot for burglars, and burglars may target houses with many guns.

I'd wager Mr Keller would use that argument if he thought it'd help his case.

[henry]

Paul Ryan spoke at a Tea Party event yesterday. He attacked Obamacare, the Senate failure to pass a budget, and too much government spending in general.

[Soylent Red]

“holding a gun to the head of the American people.”

If you think that particular turn of phrase was accidental, I have some shares in a green energy startup you might be interested in...

[NK]

“holding a gun to the head of the American people.”

HRH Barry I is just an obnoxious punk.

[Jim Eagle]

This is why I do not allow my wife to give me directions when driving.

Well, she is a Walloon and Mrs. JiB thinks its onset dementia but mostly she is a Walloon:)

[Frau Geheimnis]

DoT - we may have known Foster was a lesbian but we didn't know-know** it. That has been true of David Dreier who is reviled by my straight liberal neighbors who feel he is obligated to support same sex marriage. Dreier has also remained private about his sexuality. Bravo!

** Whoopi Goldberg.

[hit and run]

holding a gun to the head of the American people

The "gun to the head" line was also a favorite of Obama's in 2011 regarding the debt ceiling.

Note that he also makes a pretend gun with his fingers (double barreled!), a move which has gotten at least one youngster suspended from school.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Hilarious, JiB.

[Clarice]

Stab in the back was Schumer's right?

[squaredance]

Oh for Pete's sake. Foster used to come into my bar on the UES of Manhattan years ago when she was just coming up in the industry. I had ample time to see her at close range (and yes, she brought her girl friends in). She was a pompous, ill-educated, not very bright and self-important b!tch. I am sure that she is even worse now. She is typical of the Hollywood branch on the Democrat's Nomenklatura, and deserves nothing but contempt and scorn.

It is just amazing the comments about her here:

Smart? A "private person"? A good and versatile actress? (she has continuously (and woodenly) played the same role over and over again.) What nonsense. Goes to show just how gullible and silly JOMers are.

Can't you people get even the simplest and most obvious things right? Can't you see what is right before your eyes?

She has contempt for absolutely everything that you here profess to hold dear. She is not an "artist", nor is she "smart". She is another Hollywood hack--as superficial, shallow and callow as the rest of them.

Beyond belief.

[matt]

McQueen used to ride dirt bikes a lot and was the narrator of Bruce Brown's classic film "On Any Sunday". Brown lived a few miles away when I was a kid, and we were surfrat dirt bikers who knew his kids from our break, which is now right below a 5 star hotel.

McQueen used to come down and ride the hills with Bruce where that hotel now stands and we were pretty much told to get lost and not be pests. We thought it was the coolest thing that he was "over there" and would watch his every move.

McQueen was the man who inspired at least two generations of motor freaks, whether it was cars or bikes.

There was something of a symbiosis at the time; Riverside Raceway, Dana Point, guys like Mark Donahue and Roger Penske and the Mears and Mario Andretti who got guys like McQueen and Newman interested in racing and especially off road racing. Newman was too east coast for off road. You'd usually break either your bike (or truck/car)or yourself at some point, though.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Not all of us have the insights that come from running a gay bar on the UES.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Bill for the new keyboard is on its way, Ig.

[Captain Hate]

And there was the scene in "The Great Escape" when McQueen jumped the fence with his bike.

Tammy Bruce is blasting Slick for leaving Clot to attend the Golden Globe awards and the hive for giving him a standing ovation.

[maryrose]

Iggy: Thank you. I could not have said it better.
squaredance: What actors do you like?
I hate Sean Penn's politics but he is a great actor.
All these Hollywood types{ with a few exceptions} are Liberal. The discussion here is are they good actors entitiled to their privacy?

[Jim Eagle]

Iggy,

I have driving much of that route from Belgium to Ljbuljana when we would go skiiing at Krasny Gora. How the hell anyone didn't know they were outside the foothills of the Ardennes and now in the Tyrol with maximum powder ski conditions, mountainous passes in January and huge road tunnels, I have no idea except dementia.

Or it could be a "bucket list" stunt to get into the Guinness Book of World Records for the dumbest person alive.

[maryrose]

CH:
I love that scene in "The Great Escape" He and Ali MacGraw were great in movies together. I especially loved him with Dustin Hoffmann.

[maryrose]

JIB:
My grandmother was from Ljbuljana> What's it like there? My mother could speak Slovenian her whole life but we never learned.

[maryrose]

squaredance:
She did graduate from Princeton afterall.

[glenda]

rse,maryrose ...
yes, bravo, I agree..I think in run-on sentences and write what I'm thinking---when I see, hear, read; such arrogant ignorance of people whom given the power of a fatted-calf audience and microphone foster lies, hate and the destruction of "We the people" and our liberty.
I volunteer, with my loud voice..to warn the citizens.."The British , ooops; the ________ are coming! ooops; They're here:<(

[glenda]

rse,maryrose ...
yes, bravo, I agree..I think in run-on sentences and write what I'm thinking---when I see, hear, read; such arrogant ignorance of people whom given the power of a fatted-calf audience and microphone foster lies, hate and the destruction of "We the people" and our liberty.
I volunteer, with my loud voice..to warn the citizens.."The British , ooops; the ________ are coming! ooops; They're here:<(

[Manuel Transmission]

narc, And I saw, that Nick Searcy, Raylan's supervisor on 'Justified' got his start in that film.

Heard from a buddy that "Boyd" played a jaw dropping tranny (the other kind) recently. Have you seen/heard of that?

[henry]

maryrose, I think you confused Brooke Shields (Princeton) with Jody Foster (Yale). Not a big difference.

[Jim Eagle]

maryrose,

Very nice now but back in the Tito days of pseudo-Communism it was a little gray. Lovely old medieval city with these three famous bridges that fan out over the river Tmovo. Great theater and museums and terrific restaurants and bistros along the winding street up to the Castle. I like the city a lot.

Has a terrific university with one of the top engineering and architecture schools in all of central Europe.

Another nice place nearby is Lake Bled with a little island in the lake that holds a small church or chapel. Lot of weddings there as you can imagine.

BTW, Slovenia was always the thorn in the side of Tito and the Socialists. It was very independent and western democracy oriented.

[narciso]

I don't think so, he was in the last DieHard, the Hitman film, Deadwood was his break through role, now this is an example one 'unnecessarily bending over backwards, in the LUN