Mass Shootings

In the course of researching something else I noticed this NY Times blurb about a 1983 mass killing:

On Feb. 19, 1983, two Hong Kong immigrants, Kwan-Fai (Willie) Mak and Benjamin Ng, shot dead 13 Chinese-American businessmen and gambling dealers in a Seattle gambling club. They were found guilty on 13 murder counts in Seattle in 1983.

More at Wikipedia and Murderpedia.

I mention this not to prepare for a thirtieth anniversary observance but because the shooting is not included in the Mother Jones data base of mass shootings in the US since 1980. And why not? Well, here are their criteria:

The shootings occured in a public place. (Except in the case of a party in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle.) Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included.

So as an armed robbery this was excluded. Interesting. Does that mean they also dropped some banger-on-banger shootouts and executions from the 1990's drug wars? How many (if any?) and could that explain why overall crime has dropped but there is no obvious trend in mass shootings?

An issue here is that we are trying to grasp whether there is a trend in mass shootings, subject to the concern that it is much easier for people to recall (or Google!) the recent past.

And since my launching point was a NY Times article from 1987 recapping earlier mass shootings, let me add this from the same article:

On Sept. 25, 1982, George E. Banks, a prison guard, killed 13 people in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. He shot four girlfriends, the five children they bore him, the mother of one of his girlfriends and one of her children, a second child of another girlfriend and a man standing on the street. He was convicted on 13 murder counts on June 21, 1983.

More at Wikipedia and Murderpedia. That is not in the MJ database and I have no idea why not, since they say this about "spree" killers:

We included six so-called "spree killings"—high-profile cases that fit closely with our above criteria for mass murder, but in which the killings occurred in more than one location over a short period of time.

They have more on their criteria here:

• We excluded crimes involving armed robbery or gang violence;
• The attack must have occurred in essentially a single incident, in a public place;
• The killer, in accordance with the FBI guideline, had to have taken the lives of at least four people.

Puzzling. Was Banks excluded because he killed people in their homes rather than in public? Whatever my previous confidence in their data base, it is now lower.

MORE: Mark Hemingway of the Weekly Standard takes issue with MJ.

Comments

[Rob Crawford]

They also chose the number of victims so as to exclude cases where an armed person was on the scene at the start -- then declared that there was no evidence that having armed people there at the start made any difference.

Mother Jones is not a scientific journal. It is not even an attempt at practicing neutral journalism. It is a propaganda rag from the far, far left. Why it is not treated with the same disgust we'd treat a slick magazine produced by the "Aryan Nation" is a mystery.

[Peter]

There's a Murderpedia?

[narciso]

It's only for purposes of analysing murderology and other circumstances;

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/it-true-armed-civilians-have-never-stopped-mass-shooting_690808.html

[narciso]

And this was just four years after Dunblane, resolved the murder;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Not much point in commenting after Rob Crawford's sport on dismantling of MJ at 12:41.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

*spot* on dismantling

[narciso]

'lies, damn lies and statistics';

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/337958/gun-sales-and-background-checks-obamas-bogus-40-percent-stat-john-fund#

[fdcol63]

The Purge needs to start with the lying liars in the MFM, academia, and Hollyweird.

[Jim Eagle]

OT: From my Belgian SIL. Europe is catching up too late I believe. I wonder when we will catch up?

Translation: "Today it was so cold I saw a socialist with his hands in his own pockets."

[Jim Eagle]

BTW, were any of them Natural Born Killers?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

LOL @ 1:22, Jack.

[lyle]

Inaguration crisis: not enough porta potties.

Headline from Tepid Air. Have at it, people.

You're welcome.

[Stephanie]

so when does manti sit down with Oprah?

[Jim Eagle]

lyle,

Or barf bags.

[Janet]

Your 1:22 is wonderful,JiB.

The O administration has picked on the wrong people. Nobody knows more about guns than gun people. (I think Clarice pointed that out long ago with gun topics & military topics). The credentialed morons look more stupid than usual.

My Dad was a wildlife biologist & many years ago there was some lawsuit about protecting doves. Anyway, I remember my Dad saying something like - Boy did they pick the wrong bird. We have more data on whitewing dove populations than almost any other bird.

[lyle]

so when does manti sit down with Oprah?

I'd be more interested to hear from the girlfriend.

[lyle]

Or barf bags

We have our first entry. C'mon, people. Slow hanging curveball here.

[Jane on Ipad]

Dear Abby died. I forgot she was Ann Landers twin.

[Captain Hate]

Tammy Bruce: When did Tom Brokaw become such a decrepit old man?

[narciso]

There's not enough scolopamine, out there;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2013/01/17/sally-quinn-waxes-philosophical-about-our-need-inaugural-ceremony-2005

[Stephanie]

Celebrity Ghosthunters? or John Edwards?

[rse]

CH & henry and anyone involved with IT or computers will want to read what the feds have in mind with cyberlearning.

http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/the-need-to-know-as-we-understand-it-today-may-be-a-lethal-cultural-sport/

Acute cronyism, shutting down of ability to think AND trying to pretend we can plan the future.

Especially with millions of tax dollars or new debt.

And it must be writing in the afternoon instead of the planned morning. Snarky all the way through.

[daddy]

OT.

Yesterday local Talk Radio had an interesting discussion that mentioned the Law Of The Sea (LOST) Treaty. The discussion was why were some of the big multi-national Oil Companies supporting the passage of the Treaty.

The plain language answer tossed out was that in the States, the current costs and roadblocks placed in front of the Oil Companies by the EPA, the Salazar's, the Enviro's and the Courts, are so restrictive and costly, that it would be in their best economic self interest to be under a structure like the LOST Treaty which would apparently obviate these US costs and roadblocks that our currently system imposes on them.

Don't know if that's true, but I binged a search for confirmation and found the following: U.S. Leaders Support Law of the Sea Treaty

It's probably a propaganda site, but this part made sense to me explaining Big Oil:

The agreement also oversees an international tribunal to settle fishing, pollution, and property rights disputes, as well as the International Seabed Authority, a body formed to assign mining rights beyond the EEZs ("exclusive economic zones.")

If the United States approves the treaty, the agreement would include the country with the largest EEZ in the world, while also potentially clearing the way for U.S. oil companies to mine the Arctic Ocean.

Maybe you guys all knew that but I didn't. It did not previously make sense to me why Oil Companies would want to be tied in to a treaty mandating a UN style regulating body until I heard the argument that it would probably be more flexible and easier to deal with than what they are faced with up here currently.

If true, sad.

[lyle]

Burning question: Everytime I check back with JOM, there's an ad with a particularly fetching young lass leaning forward in a low cut top. Does she have back problems?

[henry]

rse, Wiener and his closed systems feedback loops. A lovely proof, yet dangerous when applied to open systems (i.e. anything that occurs in the real / natural world) instead of engineered machines. Funny that these people take the simplification used to get some handle on real world processes -- simple by defining one set of inputs and closing the model to all else -- use classic non-deterministic open systems like evolution and ecology to beat up their straw man cartoon of conservatives.

[Neo]

One of those “unintended consequences,” of the “limited” magazine laws, will be to have gun totting persons use more lethal ammunition.

We had the story recently about the woman who defended herself and her children, pumping 5 shots into an intruder … and he lived.

Next time, he won’t.

[Jane on Ipad]

Daddy,

That UN stuff is very scary.

[Rob Crawford]

Well, so much for my renaissance of reloading in New York idea. Apparently they've declared that the components are the same as the assembled thing -- or at least some vendors have decided to err on the safe side. Have heard that a major Internet retailer of shooting supplies has canceled backorders of reloading supplies for NY customers.

[rse]

henry-funny you should say that. Hubby is an IT sort who writes languages and software and whatever it takes for computers to do what he wants them to do. I showed him the graphic this morning that is being used to run the performance assessments via computer.

He said that's a flow chart. I said yes but it implies people and how we think is a closed system instead of an open one.

So we are all having a similar reaction.

And the truth is that all this spending on behavioral sciences and education now is an attempt to get people to function more or less as closed systems. Quit doing unexpected things that would be creative destruction or disregarding the story line the media or the politicians feed us.

The systems thinking that now permeates education and the EPA for starters was grounded in trying to change what people believed and thus were likely to do as a means to further nuclear disarmament. Then it got perverted into trying to control behavior generally.

[daddy]

Captain Hate on a previous thread compared ND favorably to Duke re: ND standing up for their student as opposed to Duke (via Brodhead) immediately damning the LaCrosse boys.

That reminded me to see if KC Johnson of the Durham in Wonderland Blog has had anything up lately. By coinkydink, he does:

Updates: 14 Jan 2013

We learn

(a) Attorneys for the three falsely accused players have indicated they plan to appeal to the Supreme Court the 4th Circuit’s ruling dismissing—before discovery even had begun—their federal civil rights claims against Durham and Durham employees.

and

(b) The latest from the annals of non-accountability: the Mellon Foundation has appointed none other than Richard Brodhead as a trustee, with his position to take effect in March 2013.

and

(c) That the meme that the 3 Duke boys raped what's her name repeatedly is alive and well in the common culture.

[henry]

rse- please note that my software flowcharts always include a place for humans to deal with exceptions. If it is fully closed and the computer says you are holding a dog when it is obviously a cold six pack, you must report that you are holding a dog or nothing. (The consume some of the six pack as you laugh at the stupid computer). Errors are thus forced into the information flow via the hubris of systems designers. The real world is not closed, man made systems are closed at own risk. Hand you hubby a six pack before sharing this with him. ; )

[Captain Hate]

CH & henry and anyone involved with IT or computers will want to read what the feds have in mind with cyberlearning.

It's all about control to those turds. Amazing how the "free thinkers" of the 60s were anything but that.

[daddy]

Inaguration crisis: not enough porta potties.

Well if they can't find a porta pottie perhaps they can use a Mailbox. This guy did:

Journal News gun permit map: Fecal matter mailed to editor CynDee Royle

[clarice feldman]

That Broadhead story is distressing. Time to close down these foundations.,

[rse]

henry-you sound like him on the rare occasions when he talks about how he does what he does.

He also had each of the kids build a computer from motherboard up so they would get it.

The cybernetics quote was on same page as the hierarchy of mediation. No wonder some of those NRC reports have taken to referring to humans as "socio-technical systems."

CH-yes it is control and papers say so. It is also the mother of all Crony Capitalist schemes as you create an oligarchy of lucratively compensated providers who also get to try to displace anyone's ability to create a better product.

And I always keep the bar stocked. Especially with junior away. A part of me stays numb waiting to hear next.

[Neo]

New York apparently has removed itself from future consideration for the Winter Olympics.

Biathlon, a Winter Olympics sport held and trained for in Lake Placid, New York, uses a specialized rifle with a unique eight-round magazine, now affected under Cuomo’s idiotic “rush to be first” lawmaking. The magazine in question holds five conventionally fed shells, plus three spares in the base of the magazine.

[daddy]

Well, so much for my renaissance of reloading in New York idea.

Good gracious Rob,

Before you know it rifles up there will be considered as dangerous as Kinder Eggs.

[Jim Eagle]

Wonder how long before Remington pulls the plug on their facility in Ilion, NY? Not much left there but it is symbolic. They moved a long time ago to NC.

In fact, every gun or ammo or even accessory manufacturer should pull out of Calififornia, New York and all the other restrictive gun states as a protest. Its the industry who is silent leaving it all up to the NRA, GOOA, and individuals. I even heard interviews with some FFL dealers today and not one was outspoken fearing the Feds, I guess.

[Stephanie]

All you Atlanta area JOMers done your running to Kroger for storm supplies?

[lyle]

Journal News gun permit map: Fecal matter mailed to editor CynDee Royle

Despite my LOL, I find it fascinating that such pranks have evolved from the previous iteration of putting the fecal matter in a paper bag and lighting it on her doorstep.

[lyle]

That Broadhead story is distressing. Time to close down these foundations.

Standing. Clapping. Cheering.

At the minimum their non-profit status should be revoked. I wish I could remember who coined the dictum that all charities/non-profits that aren't explicitly and irrevocably conservative will, in time, inexorably drift prog-ward.

[narciso]

I don't see anything reassuring in that Worldwatch piece, daddy, then again I don't think I'm supposed to

[lyle]

Let the indoctrination continue apace:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/17/pro-obamacare-group-sponsoring-symposium-to-train-journalists-how-to-report-on-obamacare/

[narciso]

John O' Sullivan, Thatcher's adviser,

[Jim Eagle]

WTF?

Watching Golf Channel - the old Bob Hope Classic - now sponsored by Humana and......drum roll......The Clinton Foundation. The fawning, heart-throb adoring chatter from the crew is pretty much over the top considering it was only a few years back that this guy and his wife were doing there best to ruin Humana. But strange bedfellows they do make.

I have emailed the GC that its probably the first time in my memory that a golf channel has been sponsored by a misygonist rapist and world class golf cheat. I doubt I'll get a shout out by Sir Nick Faldo.

[OldTimer]

daddy, the Heritage Org and Cato Institute have written extensively on the Law of the Sea treaty litigation pitfalls. Cato's take is LUN

[Jim Eagle]

golf channel = golf tournament. Grrrrr.

[narciso]

Just a coincidence, i'm sure;

http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/journal-news-map-listed-guns-permits-stolen-from-new-city-home-cops-say-1.4463741

[Donald]

I was about 2 blocks away from the Seattle thing when it happened.

I was also in the San Ysidro McDonald's about 5 minutes before that slaughter happened after the most debauched night of my entire life.

For whatever its worth.

[Jim Eagle]

For all the ex or current military out there - did you know you get a discount on this year's Inaugural Ball tickets? Only Chuck Hagel and Colin Powell have taken advantage so far.

[Porchlight]

Wow, Donald.

[Donald]

I'm a publix/Costco guy Steph.

But yeah! We're all gonna die or whatever.

[lyle]

Thanks for the assist, narc.

[Stephanie]

Come on Jack we're in the era of Hope and dopes not Hope and jokes . Get with the times .

I moved my tee time from 10:30 to 1:30 thanks to the winter storm watch . Sure to be cart path only, too . Yuck .

Rory looked awful in Dubai last night . Had golf on the tv and the Aussie Open on the kindle mobile ESPN app. Much better than the picture in picture on the Samsung .

[narciso]

You're welcome, Lyle, Pew is the obvious example,
the Sun Oil founder, was very far to the right,
supporting the John Birch society, and now it's totally blanc mange

[Rob Crawford]

I'm a publix/Costco guy Steph.

You are, huh? Noted...

[Stephanie]

Donald! LTNS . Yep . We're all gonna die from either falling limbs, black ice, lack of heat or carbon monoxide poisoning. They haven't missed a trick on the news today .

[fecal transplants save lives!]

The un & American 'laws' are designed to steal more resources from the owners. Water rights are land rights.

[Jim Eagle]

In Re: Algeria.

My old employer built the NG/ LNG industry in Algeria to the point we got pissed off because we weren't getting paid. But that is not the story here.

In Amenas is a true isolated desert locale and BP and Statoil had security. [are you kidding, in the Mahgreb?] but this was a real fully armed to the teeth raid and well done. Even in the 70's and 80's we anticipated this kind of stuff because of the Algerian and French uncomfotable intersection. But never like this. But BP and Statoil should have.

My first pipeline was built under the professor/dictatorship of one the greats in the business. He was kicked out of Algeria after we built the Hassi el-Mar facility and pipeline by calling out the Minster of Finance for not paying us. He said BS right to the guys face in front of the American ambassador at the time. Brilliant. But we kept him because he was numero uno when it came to big diameter long distance lines. Think Keystone on steroids.

So, ever time I hear of Algeria and gas production and terrorists (like FM who won't pay their bills) I think of John. He died last year RIP buddy.

[rse]

I'm assuming nothing will happen because ground has been warm for so long.

Today is 2nd round of high school all state so I have to go out and get her and some friends whose parents are out of town. Bad weather is when hubby takes out the SUV and plays with the 4WD.

[Jim Eagle]

Rob,

As someone who has had to shop in a Kroger and now have the same angst of shopping in a Publix, believe me there is a huge difference and Publix wins out big time.

I believe the Queen of the JOM Kingdom even agrees with me.

Clarice?

[daddy]

My favorite part of the 1863 New York City riots is the part where the NYTimes mounted Gatling Guns in their entrance to keep the mob at bay. According to contemporaneous reports, one of the Gatling guns was manned by Henry Raymond, owner and editor of the New York Times:

At Newspaper Row, across from City Hall, Henry Raymond, owner and editor of The New York Times, averted the rioters with Gatling guns, one of which he manned. The mob, instead, attacked the headquarters of abolitionist Horace Greeley's New York Tribune until forced to flee by the Brooklyn Police.

[rse]

jib-when publix opened in atlanta the unions picketed the stores because they were not unionized to call attention to the fact. They quit when it became clear they were helping publix's image.

I have never had any cashier at publix eat while running the register. Happens regularly at kroger.

Rather disgusting but kroger is easier to get to at rush hour. Still at least a 10 to 1 difference in use.

[daddy]

Old Timer, your 04:19 is a bit scary.

If I read it correctly, some of the hire up Enviro's are intentionally launching lawsuits to squelch our drilling up here, in order to force the Oil Companies to be in favor of the supposedly less burdensome LOST Treaty, yet the Enviro's think the LOST Treaty is their ultimate power tool so it's a Trojan Horse scheme.

Wish my old Brit BP Oil buddy was here to offer some clarity, but he's been off in Africa (hopefully not Algeria) for the last several years and we've lost touch.

[daddy]

Just for interest, here's a map of Occupy Wall Street--circa 1863

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

As an adjunct to Steph's weather reports I can say that thankfully we emerged from highs in the mid thirties for the first time in a week or more yesterday.
Supposed to be sixty today.

[lyle]

Why do any of you gun nuts think you need a Gatling gun? Huh?

[lyle]

Supposed to be sixty today.

Yer killin' me. High for the last two and half weeks in my neck o' the woods? 22F. Lows 2-8F.

[Stephanie]

Love publix bakery, meats and produce . But they are definitely more expensive than Kroger and their store brands are way inferior to Krogers which is strange as most store brands are produced in the same facilities as the named brands they mimic . When I was consulting at Pillsbury, their line ran two days of Pillsbury brand pie crusts and the rest of the week it was all the different store brands that were run .

[daddy]

Just watched an excellent discussion on FOX Business (Host-Melissa Francis) with Todd Curtiss, Former Boeing Safety Engineer, about the 787's problems. Very controlled and sensible comments. Sorry I can't link it.

[rse]

But far less than WF Steph that has conveniently been on the way home from at least one kid's school for more than 10 years now. "I just spent how much on baking potatoes?" prompted a big bag yesterday while picking up red's new glasses at costco. Plus osso buco that I just put in not knowing how late tryouts will be.

[Stephanie]

Our high last Saturday was 73. This Saturday it will maybe break 50, maybe. Definitely not gonna be sporting a golf skirt again tomorrow or this weekend . Thank heaven for cart heaters and covers . Unfortunately the heater sits in a drink holder so my partner is gonna have to find somewhere else for her beer . ;)

[Porchlight]

I love Publix, especially their house brand of liquid dish soap. I even brought some home from FL in my suitcase.

[rse]

Steph-Red texted me earlier that they are getting hail and thunder up on the mtn top in advance of the system.

I reminded her of the angry Greek gods scene in fantasia.

[Stephanie]

True rse, but I like H Mart and some of the Asian farmers markets that have popped up for produce and some meats . Cat tastes just like chicken . / snark

[daddy]

Why do any of you gun nuts think you need a Gatling gun?

I'm with you Lyle,

It is interesting reading the accounts. Apparently the Police were unable to quell the riots, and relief had to wait until the arrival of Federal Troops 3 days later:

From wiki: the New York City Police Department was the only force to try to suppress the riots. The police superintendent, John A. Kennedy, arrived at the site on Monday to check on the situation. Although not in uniform, he was recognized by people in the mob who attacked him. Kennedy was left nearly unconscious, having had his face bruised and cut, his eye injured, lips swollen, and his hand cut with a knife; he was beaten to a mass of bruises and blood all over his body. Police drew their clubs and revolvers, and charged the crowd, but were overpowered. The police forces were badly outnumbered and unable to quell the riots;...

The most reliable estimates indicate that at least 2,000 people were injured. Herbert Asbury, the author of the 1928 book Gangs of New York, upon which the 2002 film was based, puts the figure much higher, at 2,000 killed and 8,000 wounded,[22] but this figure is not widely accepted and is considered myth.[23] Total property damage was about $1–5 million ($15 – $75 million in 2011, adjusted for inflation).

[Stephanie]

Did you see where there was a major slide at Newfound Gap last weekend and Cherokee is now cut off from Gatlinburg? Yikes.

thundersnow is creepy .

[Porchlight]

But far less than WF Steph that has conveniently been on the way home from at least one kid's school for more than 10 years now.

The Whole Foods HQ and flagship store is on my commute. Or as we like to call it, "Whole Paycheck."

[narciso]

Well we only shop for certain items, like coffee substitute, the occasional crab bisque ala Seinfeld, over there.

[rse]

Porch-wait until friends prefer riding with you from carpool line rather than bus and then climb in and ask about WF gelato.

I really like things like the frozen fish or bell and evans chicken that get us by on days when I am driving everywhere.

The diva likes the mini pizza bagels. And all the kids learned to love real parm reggiano when they were infants.

But the organic produce just does not last well.

[lyle]

The police superintendent, John A. Kennedy

Oh, dear...

[daddy]

If a Teacher can successfully sue over her Phobia of kids, makes me wonder what else we could sue for.

Pilots suing because they're afraid of flying?
Math-teachers suing because they're afraid of the number 13?
Maybe an Islamic chick could get hired as a stripper, then sue because of a phobia of taking off her Bhurka.

Where does it end?

[Rob Crawford]

Why do any of you gun nuts think you need a Gatling gun? Huh?

'Cause they're neat.

And legal.

[Rob Crawford]

Maybe an Islamic chick could get hired as a stripper, then sue because of a phobia of taking off her Bhurka.

Muslims have gotten jobs as cashiers then refused to handle pork and alcohol. And then there was the one who worked at Disneyland and refused to abide by their dress code.

And the cabbies in Minneapolis who wouldn't pick up blind people with seeing-eye dogs.

[Gus]

I don't like Mondays. I don't like Mondays.

Lovely song by....Sir Bob Geldoff.

[daddy]

Well I'm out of here with Fry and Scout now to verify once again if my phobia about cleaning up their dog-poop still exists.

Maybe I can sue our Homeowners Association?

[clarice feldman]

They just rebuilt the Publix here on Longboat Key and woo woo, it's really fine. Found a lot of specialty things that are hard to find at the brand new Safeway near home and almost as attractively laid out as WH but less $$$$

[Frau Süßigkeiten]

daddy - how about a WH petition for Kinder Surprises? Then Jane,you and unnamed others won't have to break the law.

Between Donal's debauchery and (A) Bub's moral terpitude, there are more JOM stories to be heard but probably not seen on line.

[daddy]

Geez,

Now they're saying SubWay's sandwiches aren't as long as advertised due to "shrinkage". I thought that excuse only worked for George Costanza?

[Captain Hate]

I have emailed the GC that its probably the first time in my memory that a golf channel has been sponsored by a misygonist rapist and world class golf cheat.

Am I remembering correctly that once the Golden Bear was infuriated at all the stroke shaving that Slick was doing?

[Gus]

The Obama-o-rama Subway Sub. It's less, but you pay more.

[clarice feldman]

"WH" should be "WF"

[Rob Crawford]

Now they're saying SubWay's sandwiches aren't as long as advertised due to "shrinkage".

And the answer to that will be to leave them in the proofer longer, so the bread has more air in it but hits the measurement again.

[NJJan]

When visiting Texas, I fell in love with Central Market, especially their muffins. I think the WF daughter started them and they try to use mainly Texas produce. Went to the one in Southlake. Here in Jersey, I'm fickle. Sometimes Shoprite, sometimes Stop 'N Shop, sometimes Trader Joes. Had to come out of lurking for this important topic. Guns and finance aren't exactly my strongpoints, although I'm learning!

[clarice feldman]

JiB , there are no Kroger's near me and I haven't been in one in years, before supermarkets became high calss food emporia. Too far for me to commute, there's a big Wegman's which I understand is the king of supermarkets.

[NJJan]

My daughter has a Wegmans in her jersey area. They are pricey, but have every food known to mankind. The thing is huge.

[Stephanie]

My mom swears by Sam's Club meats but I refuse to join a club as I spend more in the junk aisles than I save. That 36 bar pack of Mars bars...it calls to me . Then K has to have kitkats and the hubby can't be left out and poof it's cheaper to eat out .

the nearest trader Joe's isn't near enough and traffic sucks . We do have an Aldi near here, but I've never tried them .

I do make a run occasionally to the Dekalb farmers market, but I always get more than we ever eat and end up throwing stuff away . Thirty varieties of apples and of course you have to get some of the new ones to try.

[anonamom]

When we were in Ann Arbor we had the "ghetto" Krogers around the corner from our student apartment, but on special occasions would head out Geddes Road to the "suburban" Krogers that was clean(!) and had decent produce.

Now I live in Harris Teeter land. WF, Earth Fare and Trader Joe's all nearby. Costo for staples--and great big bags of avacados!

[clarice feldman]

I love Costco. Steph, here's the trick to buying in big box stores and saving money:Buy one of those vacuum sealers for your food. Thhese days they are not that expensive. Repackage everything into sizes you can use and freeze what you won't be eating soon. About 2 weeks ago, the big deal was pork crown roasts..they were divine and about $3 a lb. You could cut them into individual chops or a few small roasts if you didn't need a whole one.
Also they have many thins in packages where the product is individually wrapped. Costco has first rate wild salmon filets and tune,

[clarice feldman]

*thinGs* (I am worse than usual when using unfamiliar computers. Sorry.