Red States Versus Blue States In The New Tax Deal (Blue Seems To Win)

The new tax deal raises rates for couples earning more than $450,000 but... it also begins the phase-out of various deductions at $250,000.

One might think that deductions are more valuable (and hence, the phase-out would hit harder) in the Blue States with high state, local taxes and property. But, as the NY Times explains, its complicated since at that income level the Alternative Minimum Tax can come into play as well.

The net effect, per the example they found an expert willing to climb a limb - for couples grossing just under the new $450,000 threshold the new deal apparently hits harder in Texas than in New York. Go, Obama and Boo, Boehner.

We thank, and the Times cites, Mark Luscombe, principal analyst with CCH, a tax information provider [link]. From the Times story comes this explanation of the chart above:

Much will depend on your own situation. CCH ran two hypothetical cases for me, which you can see in the accompanying graphic. The first examined a family of four in New York with $400,000 in adjusted gross income and $79,000 in total itemized deductions. The household pays the A.M.T. in both 2012 and under the new tax rules in 2013. They pay just $790 more in 2013, but that includes $1,350 in new Medicare taxes. (The total does not include the Social Security payroll tax that has been restored to its prerecession level.)

A family in Texas, however, might have the same income but lower property taxes and no income tax and thus lower deductions for its federal tax return. Their deductions are just $43,700, but they end up being hurt more by the new rules. They would have no A.M.T. liability in 2013 and would end up paying $3,852 more, or about $2,500 if you don’t count the $1,350 from the new Medicare tax.

Wow - setting aside the new ObamaCare tax, the New York family pays less under this new "soak the rich" reform.

Comments

[NK]

Welcome to the tax Hell of the AMT....

[Melinda Romanoff]

Tax hikes aimed at Texans? Imagine that?

[narciso]

What was the line, you get nothing, also there was something about 'revenge' I recall,

[NK]

PS: I wouldn't read too much into this; the vagaries of the AMT are such that unequal results between high income families abound-- to my untrained tax eye, they seem to be random results. That said --the Dems like Schumer had to get the threshold for the killer rate higher because so many of their reliable liberal voters are at about that $400K taxable level. This story will have legs though-- when the Obamaniacs come back for debt increase and sandy $$$-- you think the Texas/Fla House members will be happy to oblige?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

When did state taxes become deductible?
I've never understood the rationale behind it since every other Sch A deduction is either a behavior the Feds want to encourage (investment interest) or an expense that one incurs involuntarily (medical expenses).
I can only assume it was shoved through by high tax states in the past.

[Threadkiller]

Off topic.

"It's not often you hear of fears of a zombie invasion - and if you do, it's almost certainly on television. But in the event of an apocalypse brought about by an army of the undead, civil servants would co-ordinate the military's efforts to 'return England to its pre-attack glory'. The country's contingency plans for a zombie onslaught emerged in a response to an enquiry from a member of the public."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2253246/If-theres-apocalyptic-zombie-invasion-rest-assured-prepared.html

"Wonder why Zombies, Zombie Apocalypse, and Zombie Preparedness continue to live or walk dead on a CDC web site? As it turns out what first began as a tongue in cheek campaign to engage new audiences with preparedness messages has proven to be a very effective platform. We continue to reach and engage a wide variety of audiences on all hazards preparedness via Zombie Preparedness; and as our own director, Dr. Ali Khan, notes, "If you are generally well equipped to deal with a zombie apocalypse you will be prepared for a hurricane, pandemic, earthquake, or terrorist attack." So please log on, get a kit, make a plan, and be prepared!"

http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm

Why all the Zombie talk?

Oh...

Maybe if Hollywood wouldn't glorify "zombies" like they do "guns" we wouldn't have to worry so much.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2012/11/08/trailer-brad-pitt-takes-on-zombies-in-world-war-z/1692593/

Too late.

[BumperStickerist]

the math,
it burns.
_________

[Threadkiller]

My pick for Speaker of The House:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wl2sfeeqfM

Text only:
http://mcclintock.house.gov/2013/01/fiscal-cliff-deal.shtml

No wonder the GOP keeps him hidden.

[NK]

IG-- Reagan did try to eliminate the State Tax deduction in '86, but his partner in Tax Reform Bill Bradley couldn't possibly get that done with the Dem controlled Congress.

[Threadkiller]

"Affidavit: Retired Resident Agent in Charge/Special Agent from the Department of Homeland Security and Retired Coast Guard Investigative Service Chief Investigator, Jeffery Stephen Coffman; Obama's Forged Selective Service

Affidavit Signed January 2, 2013

# 18 from the Affidavit: Based on my observations, research, experience and training, it is my belief that the Selective Service registration card I received under the Freedom Of Information Act request under Barack Obama has been altered."

http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/01/dhs-special-agent-obama-forged-selective-service.html

[NK]

I know I'm flogging the dead horse here, but HRH BarryI signing the tax bill by 'autopen' is just further proof of his disgraceful petulance and conceit. He's no man, he's a spoiled little brat.

[centralcal]

He's no man, he's a spoiled little brat.

NK, you left out "evil."

[Clarice]

I
agree, NK.

As for the unfairness of blue state deductions, consider that they carry a disproportionate burden of the old, sick, unemployables and destitute immigrants. I pay more taxes in DC than my Va neighbors do. In part because of profligate spending here but ALSO because those who need assistance congregate here as they do in big cities throughout the US.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--As for the unfairness of blue state deductions, consider that they carry a disproportionate burden of the old, sick, unemployables and destitute immigrants. I pay more taxes in DC than my Va neighbors do.-

OK, but why are any of them deductible?
I got to deduct almost $12,000 in timber yield tax in 2011. Why?

There are seven categories of Sch A deductions and one of those things is not like the others.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

BTW, how did I miss the news that ManBearPig sold Current TV (sounds like the fruit canning channel) to Al Jazeera?
When did that happen?

[Rob Crawford]

In part because of profligate spending here but ALSO because those who need assistance congregate here as they do in big cities throughout the US.

Um, one of those causes the other. You get more of what you subsidize.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Rob-

Fed dollars and Congressional districts are allocated by the number of PEOPLE, not citizens, also.

[narciso]

Would this face mislead us;

http://www.jammiewf.com/2013/nyc-occu-bomb-suspect-hey-im-just-a-sportsman-or-something/

[narciso]

Yes, and he was trying to sell it under the wire;

http://news.yahoo.com/glenn-beck-tried-buy-current-tv-rejected-032853589--finance.html

[Clarice]

It might be a good idea if we didn't subsidize so heavily the poor in cities, but we lack the power to move them out and in rural areas they are less visible and the urgency of subsidies seems less obvious.

On another note--good grief. gay marines protest women grunts: http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/07/gay-infantry-marines-protest-female-grunts/

[narciso]

You know there is a point, when ignorance has reached critical mass;

http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-soars-palin-plummets-most-143025450.html

[Janet]

Clarice, I think that duffelblog site is a parody site...The Onion with a military theme.

[NK]

Narc-- thanks for the JWF link to the Manhattan Bombadier Aaron Greene. I note that Rob Crawford commented there. Another commenter observed that according to the NY Post any rifle in Manhattan is an 'assault rifle'. Well that might acyually be factually accurate-- while we could use a good pigeon cull in Manhattan, not much other game about for sportsmen to hunt- so the rifle owners in Manhattan have other uses in mind....

[narciso]

Right, NK, using HTMD in an enclosed urban space,
why not go for TATP, it could have been worse he could have transfats and a 32 oz soda, then the penalties are really severe.

[glasater]

From the last thread 'cause I'm not all the way through it -

I don't think Cantor will be better as Speaker at all. He'll be targeted worse than Boehner already is.

Boehner appears to be a bumbling along fellow but I believe that is a ruse.

[NK]

Narc-- my personal suspicion is that the NYPD busted in on the Greene-Gleidman Armory on a tip they were hoarding 20 OZ bottles of sugared beverages...

[Rob Crawford]

we lack the power to move them out and in rural areas they are less visible and the urgency of subsidies seems less obvious.

*snort*

My father spent ten years fighting the slum lord who ran the trailer park built next to our farm. The occupants -- responsible for the majority of our township's crimes -- were on various forms of federal assistance. Neither the operator nor the occupants had a concept of "not your property", with the construction of the place starting with the bulldozing of one of our fence lines, proceeding to the dumping of raw sewage into one of our ponds, and settling down to years of crop damage.

The only solution to the chronically "poor" is to cut them off. If they can work, they must.

[narciso]

They don't care who they have to pay off, or slander, that's why they keep Pelosi, Rangel,
McMillan in the leadership. Our side, is hesitant to point out the truth, and they stick a chiv in those who do,

I don't know if Cantor will be more success than Boehner, but it is unlikely he will be less,

[Rob Crawford]

Well that might acyually be factually accurate-- while we could use a good pigeon cull in Manhattan, not much other game about for sportsmen to hunt- so the rifle owners in Manhattan have other uses in mind....

Like travelling to other places to hunt?

[JeffC]

one small detail omitted from this evaluation ...

the NY couple would pay $34,000 in state and local taxes (assume they are NYC residents)

kind of makes up for the minor difference in federal taxes ...

[centralcal]

Good morning - long holiday is over and I am back at work, but wanted everyone at JOM (or the JOMO Tribe as JiB calls us) to know a beautiful bouquet will be delivered to Sue mid-morning (Texas time) today from all of us.

I tried really hard to get the colors of the US Navy Seal insignia (about half of the insignias are blue and yellow) replicated in yellow and blue flowers. Alas, blue flowers are extremely rare and none are in season right now.

[narciso]

That's a wonderful thing to do central.

[Clarice]

You know, Janet, you're right and shame on me --that's the second time they caught me out. They are damned good at it.

[narciso]

Well some of the links, on the sidebar would suggest they weren't on the level, but like Phillip Roth said in the mid 80s, he stopped writing fiction, for a time, because reality
kept topping him,

[Captain Hate]

That's ok, Clarice; look at the White House and it's like we're living in a parody.

[Clarice]

cc, has taken charge and done a wonderful job.

[NK]

I know it's shocking, but there's no real hunting or sport shooting rifle culture in Manhattan. No doubt that some of the super-rich go to the weekend house and shoot skeet on the range, or go at targets with their 9mms, but it's a small subculture. Gone are the days when sunday evenings on the southbound NYS ThruWay would bring stationwagons with the weekend deer trophy strapped to the roof and/or fender-- that was the outer borough and near suburb working man's sport back in the day. That's been gone for almost 40 years. Now the deer live in the boroughs and near suburbs, and they sneer at us humans, because they know none of us have rifles next to our daughters' field hockey sticks in the basement.

[narciso]

Yes, and I know which film in particular;

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/americathon/

[narciso]

It's like that really annoying Geico commercial,
with the two pitchmen and the lion (it used to be they were economical, but wasting so much money on bogus advertising) among other things, made them two expensive.

[Threadkiller]

"Before lawmakers get back to the business of arguing about taxes, deficits and other issues, there was just a nice moment outside the Capitol.

Sen. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., who suffered a stroke last Jan. 21, came to the Capitol for the first time since then. And as C-SPAN cameras watched, he made a very public return — slowly walking up the steps of the Capitol with assistance from Vice President Biden and Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W. Va."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/03/168539786/nice-moment-sen-mark-kirk-returns-to-capitol-one-year-after-stroke

After a stroke? Hil can't make it up those steps before a stroke.

Maybe The Two Joes can help her up to the top...

[narciso]

They all got their piece of the action;

http://moonbattery.com/?p=23403

[pagar]

"When did that happen?"

Most of the reports I have read say that it was hurried up to happen in 2012, because Gore wanted to save on taxes.

http://twitchy.com/2013/01/03/al-gore-cashes-in-on-sweet-sweet-big-oil-money-avoids-paying-fair-share-twitter-cashes-in-on-laughs/?utm_source=autotweet&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter

The reason that he went with the Al Jazeera offer:

http://www.therightscoop.com/says-it-all-current-tv-rejected-glenn-beck-purchase-offer-over-ideology-accepted-al-jazeera-offer/

[NK]

Narc-- thanks for the Buffett tax payoff link. BTW-- I have made a fair degree of headway with persuadable Libs recently that the mutual enemy of all working stiffs is the DC culture of corruption-- all legal of course. I explain to them how the DC Dems are in league with the super rich to sell special tax breaks to the highest bidder, and the target of these special deals is the rest of us working stiff taxpayers. Then the DC Dems take our tax money and spend it on the nonworking poor to bribe their votes with entitlement spending. A lib B-I-L of mine bought in and said-- well we'll just have to cut spending to the level of tax revenue. After I finished laughing, I told him to take a look at his boy Barry's last 3 spending budgets and get back to me on that. Small steps-- but I think alot of soft Libs will have their eyes openned by their payroll and medicaid taxes kicking back in, and Debt limit fight. I know-- I'm a hopeless optimist.

[narciso]

it's like a cage match, who do you root for;

http://twitchy.com/2013/01/02/thats-rich-piers-morgan-calls-andrew-sullivans-subscription-venture-a-deluded-vanity-flight/

[RichatUF]

but I think alot of soft Libs will have their eyes openned by their payroll and medicaid taxes kicking back in, and Debt limit fight. I know-- I'm a hopeless optimist.

DOOM! Afternoon folks. Back to civilization in less than 24 hours.

[Clarice]

I feel the same wayNK/ Toss us in with Nellie Forbush in the cockeyed optimists club.

[Threadkiller]

"It's been documented that Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage was the source of the so called "leak" of Valarie Plame's identity as a CIA employee to the press. And, that the FBI and the Attorney General's office was well aware that Armitage was the "leaker" before appointing Patrick Fitzgerald "Special Counsel" to look for an answer they already knew. The lingering essential question is. Why was Patrick Fitzgerald appointed Special Counsel? And, why would a prosecutor tell the known guilty party not to tell anyone of his confession?..."

http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2013/01/03/the-valerie-plame-case-why-was-patrick-fitzgerald-appointed-special-counsel/

[NK]

Narc-- don't discount Piers Morgan's take on this-- if anyone knows anything about deluded vanity flights of fancy... it's our boy Piers. Of course Andi-Pandi won't make any real dough off of the Andi-Pandi site, but what makes you think that sharp clawed corporate catfighter Tina Brown would continue to pay his outsized salary? Andy's getting outta Tina's farm before he was culled IMO.

[narciso]

The man to see there, is Comey, corporate counsel to Lockheed, just like the fellow who
railroaded that guy, who Clarice successfully defended, counsel to UT, Armitage ended up Erdogan's public face in the States, Fitz should be as nervous as a twin tailed cat, but he's sitting pretty at I forget which firm.

[Threadkiller]

Ten minutes that will never make it to the inside of a courtroom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFCs8vaZ2s4

Sad

[NK]

Fitz went to Jenner-Block, no?
BTW-- this Comey/Fitz tale that they KNEW Armitage was the leaker and ordered him to tell no one, is astonishing. I'll listen to any conspiracy TK comes up with on this one.

[narciso]

You know we're in a Bizarro world, when Russia is more sensible then France, on this score.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/03/us-russia-depardieu-idUSBRE90206G20130103

[NK]

So Gerard became a subject of Csar VladI, even though the Franch Constitutional Court struck the 75% rate as 'Unfair'?

[bgates]

the NY couple would pay $34,000 in state and local taxes...kind of makes up for the minor difference in federal taxes

So because they chose to live in a state and locality which extracts higher taxes for the ostensible benefit of that state and locality they shouldn't have to pay as much for the ostensible benefit of the nation as a whole?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Somebody just cast a vote for Allen West for Speaker.

Heh.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Wonderful job, Ccal. By the way, it's blue and gold.

I have a nephew who lives in Manhattan and has five or six rifles, including an H&H .375 Mag elephant gun, with which he hunts in places like Texas.

[daddy]

Good Morning from Hawthorne, California.

It was exactly 50 years ago (in 2 days) that Hawthorne's Bryan Wilson, along with his 2 brothers, cousin Mike, and David what's his name who later quit, recorded Surfin USA.

As I look out the window of my cheesy Motel (The Ayers) overlooking some SoCal boulevard, and a Mall with a CostCo, a Staples, a Bed Bath and Beyond, and a big McDonalds, I dream about gettin' bugged driving up and down this same old strip
I gotta find'a new place where the kids are hip.

Yes. I get a round.

I'm a real cool head

I'm makin' real good bread

Wah wa ooo
Wah wa ooo
Wah wa ooo

So what'll it be today in the next few hours, before deadheading west? I think I still have time to go
buy some baggies
Huarachi sandals, too

Then maybe then I'll catch 'em surfin at Del Mar
Ventura County line
Santa Cruz and Tressels,
Australia's Narabine,
All over Manhattan,
And down Doheny way

Everybody's gone surfin'
Surfin U.S.A.

Oh fer sure!

[narciso]

Right but he had offers from Skadden Arps, I explained why certain people are deemed not worthy of scrutiny much less prosecution, and others are,

[Extraneus]

Good article about how the Feds rig the game to win criminal cases, linked by Insty.

How the Feds Disable Criminal Defense

[narciso]

They chose not to go after Whitey for racketeering or murder, that's kind of remarkable,

[NK]

I'm with Bgates-- my wife and I unfortunately pay those kinds of NY/NJ/Ct State income taxes, and we dutifly declare those deuctions from federal taxable income. It's ridiculous-- RR's capped total federal deductions is the way to go. Let every taxpayer have a hard cap on deuctions, and they can choose how they want to live their lives within those deductions, and the rest is taxable-- AT A LOWER RATE of course. Never happen-- because it would take away the role of the DC whores as middlemen-- every criminal knows that the secret to a successful criminal life is being a good middleman. The DC and EU crooks know that all too well.

[RichatUF]

this Comey/Fitz tale that they KNEW Armitage was the leaker and ordered him to tell no one, is astonishing. I'll listen to any conspiracy TK comes up with on this one.

Look in the archives here. I came up with all sorts of conspiracy theories on that. This place was Plame central for a while. Still can't be;ieve that Libby got convicted and Fitz was able to use as evidence on the the WaPo article "not for its truth value, but for state of mind".

Great job centralcal and Sue, I'm praying for a Texas sized recovery for you. Kick its ass like a Texan!

[NK]

RichatUF-- I do remember, I started reading JOM b/c of the Libby trial. I just don't remember the angle that Comey/Fitz told Armitage not to speak to anyone about him being the leaker-- BEFORE Fitz was ever appointed.

[RichatUF]

Yikes...need more coffee...

Fitz was able to use as evidence on the the WaPo article

Fitz was able to use as evidence a WaPo article...

it still looks like gibberish...more coffee...

[daddy]

Well narciso,

Aaron Greene did found the NEON UNDERPANTIES student Protest group at Art School, so there's that in his favor when a Judge is considering leniency for a bomb making heroin addict. And the Beach Boys recorded a tune by Charlie Manson, "Never Learn Not to Love," (Flip side of Bluebirds over the Mountain) so all things being equal...

[narciso]

It's not supposed to make sense, Rich, that's the point, Yes Libby was foolish to deny to Bush he had spoken to Miller and Cooper, but that doesn't justify 'this travesty of a mockery of a sham;

[narciso]

You're right, daddy, as Bender told Fry, 'Sir you forget yourself' or things of that nature.

[NK]

The sad epilogue of the tale; Libby was foolish; Bush was lied to; the real liars and scoundrels were Wilson/Plame and they got themselves a big payday and live off Plame's pension; Fitz now makes a fortune on the billable hour-- but was he as big a scoundrel as Wilson/Plame? Did he fabricate the whole investigation like some kind of Captain Queeg looking for the IceBox duplicate key? Is there a definitive answer to that?

[narciso]

No, Fitz was told which targets were safe, and
which weren't to be touched, and people who examined his record, like Peter Lance, who I admit is a little crazy, they get the third degree, meanwhile that bucket of tripe, that James Stewart put together gets approval.

[NK]

Told by?

[pagar]

If you like touching pictures of babies, I just put a link up on the "Law of Intended Consequences" thread.

[narciso]

Think about it, they flip Rezko to go after some beat punk like Blago, but they don't touch Obama
or any of Daley's inner circle, because they are so much more circumspect,

[NK]

But in january 2004 when he was appointed.. who 'told' Fitz what to do in the leak case?

[RichatUF]

Wasn't it Comey?

Yeah, Boehner was reelected speaker and the reptilian Pelosi is speaking.

[matt]

how many more hours in town, daddy? Can come and buy you a beer.E mail me if you can make it.

[RichatUF]

NK-

If I recall, it was at the time Ashcroft was sick and in the hospital and there was some inside baseball stuff going on with different policies the Bush Admin wanted to persue and Justice was pushing back. IIRC, it was Fitz who told Armitage not to talk and since he was a "special prosecutor" he was abe to roam free of any sort of accountability. The lead FBI agent in the case also seemed to make a quick retirement, even before the trial.

In other news, Obama made a hostage vid saying "the wealthiest Americans still aren’t paying their “fair share” of taxes", so thanks suckers for voting him. I was thinking that a good show for the debt fight would be to take a line-by-line budget of federal government spending and a few boxes of highlighters and tell the president now that he got his tax increase he can go ahead and start highlighting what to cut, since the modest tax hikes were all we needed.

[RichatUF]

And is that captch thing getting harder? It took me 3 times to get the stupid thing right.

[narciso]

But that wasn't till March of that year, as I recall, and that had to do with the TSP reauthorization. Comey is better known, if at all for being the 'slayer' of that fearsome beast, Martha Stewart.

[centralcal]

Ah yes, DoT, but there are really no "gold" fresh flowers - only different shades of yellow, some of which might be called golden. *wink*

[RichatUF]

I'll defer to your memory narciso.

[narciso]

FWIW, a cup of coffee, perhaps;

In early January 2006, The New York Times, as part of their investigation into alleged domestic surveillance by the National Security Agency, reported that Comey, who was Acting Attorney General during the March 2004 surgical hospitalization of John Ashcroft, refused to "certify" the legality of central aspects of the NSA program at that time. The certification was required under existing White House procedures to continue the program. After Comey's refusal, the newspaper reported, Andrew H. Card Jr., White House Chief of Staff, and Alberto R. Gonzales, then White House counsel and future Attorney General, made an emergency visit to the George Washington University Hospital [4], to attempt to win approval directly from Ashcroft for the program.[6]

[RichatUF]

Coffee isn't helping. Finished a 2 week, 12hr/shift rotation. Next week I have appointments, advising, and orientation for school and most likely rotating to my new work schedule.

I'm beat.

[NK]

OK-- but according to today's report in October 2003, Armitage told State Flunkie Marc Grossman and Powell that Armitage was the the leaker, then keep his mouth shut and told no one else, until the January 2004 Fitz appointment, then he told Fitz and Fitz told him to keep his mouth shut. Yet, Fitz knowing all this, prosecutes Libby for lying to the FBI (which Libby did). WTF?

[narciso]

I already explained the reason, and we only have Eickenrode's account that suggest he lied, and his notes went missing, they needed to 'Watergate' this administration, and Libby was the vehicle,

[RichatUF]

WTF?

Pretty much.

[narciso]

So, Buffett and Immelt and the Goldman factotum, all got their 'piece of the action' along with Spielperg and Weinstein, et al, and they are still cheering it like some great victory,

[RichatUF]

NK-

Armitage brought it to State GC Taft(?) and Powell and then State called Gonzoles, who at the time, was White House General Counsel. Gonzo didn't want to know and for reasons know only to Powell and Armitage, they didn't gossip about to their friends in the media. So your "WTF" about the whole thing stands. I'm still hopelessly confused about the whole thing.

[narciso]

Yes William Howard Taft the 4th, relative of the twit in Ahia, that helped crash the party, all these people were against going to war in Iraq, and Gitmo, and the TSP, this was the trifecta to deal with it, nothing else makes more sense,

[NK]

Narc-- I understand the motive completely anti-Iraq guys punishing Libby the neocon, Libby-- Cheney's BFF. I just can't wrap my head around Armitage, Powell, Gonzales, no one telling Ashcroft/Bush that Armitage was the leaker and he told the truth about it. How can that happen-- or not happen. This is captain Queeg and the second key investigation stuff, but this really happened.

[boris]

"Fitz knowing all this, prosecutes Libby for lying to the FBI (which Libby did)."

It is very unlikely Libby deliberately misled the GJ. About six months after the events following Joe Wilson's op ed (falsely claiming Cheney behested him to Africa) and Novak's report (revealing Joe likely behested by his wife in the CIA), Libby's recollection of the events were different than several other individuals.

To me those 2 dramatic public revelations seem like the type of events that jumble people's recollections months later.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Colonel Mustard, in the clubroom, with the wrench.

What'd I win?

[boris]

You mispelled wench.

[narciso]

Why did Serino recommend Zimmerman be arrested, even though there was no evidence, why did Soufan insist we got no information out of Zubeydah, why did Harry Reid say Romney didn't pay taxes, it's in their nature.

[RichatUF]

A gold star and free posting privilages to JOM for all of 2013!

[NK]

Of course Libby wilfully and deliberately lied to the FBI. Bush had ordered no contact with the media-- Libby was was spinning to the media-- off the record of course. Unfortunately for Libby, Armitage was also spinning-- different things-- to the media. Libby didn't want to lose his job and authority, so he lied to Bush and lied to the FBI. Sorry-- that's the simple truth. Now, the prosecution was a sham of a fraud, but that doesn't change facts.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Thanks, Rich! That's great! I've been getting tired of the bitcoin charges.

[daddy]

Obama made a hostage vid saying "the wealthiest Americans still aren’t paying their “fair share” of taxes",

Can somebody in power please respond that the problem is not American's not paying their fair share of taxes but Congress spending more than their fair share of Taxes.

Can anyone up there please go on offense? Please.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

If I had been the leaker and Fitz told me not to tell anyone, I hope I would have had the courage to call a news conference immediately and tell everything I knew, including what Fitz had told me not to do. Obviously Armitage did not have that courage.

Fitz could always have cried "obstruction of justice," but imagine trying to prosecute such a charge in those circumstances.

Scum.

[NK]

DoT-- I guess you have the best explanation. Fitz had a conviction for lying to the FBI-- so he abused power and told Armitage to shut up. If Libby burned it was no biggie to Armitage.

[boris]

"Sorry-- that's the simple truth"

Pretty much everything you wrote there was inaccurate. Simple and sorry, but not the way you mean.