Sloppy (But Scary!) Gun Reporting At NY Times

[The Times has subsequently appended a correction.]

The NY Times misoverestimates the possible impact of Obama's proposal to limit ammunition magazines to ten rounds:

The officials said the president will call for a new and tougher ban on military style assault weapons and to limit the number of rounds that can be in a magazine to 10. That would eliminate the 30-round magazines that were used in Newtown as well as other mass shootings at Virginia Tech, a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., and a congresswoman’s public event in Tucson, Ariz.

The Virginia Tech shooter, as documented by the commission which studied it, had two handguns and used ten and fiteen round magazines, not thirty rounders. And the panel's thoughts on smaller magazines?

The panel also considered whether the previous federal Assault Weapons Act of 1994 that banned 15-round magazines would have made a difference in the April 16 incidents. The law lapsed after 10 years, in October 2004, and had banned clips or magazines with over 10 rounds. The panel concluded that 10-round magazines that were legal would have not made much difference in the incident. Even pistols with rapid loaders could have been about as deadly in this situation.

So regardless of what the Paper of Record is telling us, the VaTech shooter had some magazines in compliance with the current proposed ban and would not, in the opinion of those who studied it, have been slowed or stopped by the continuation of that ban.

We eagerly await the Times' contributions to a calm, reality-based debate.

TO BE FAIR: Even the Times seemed to grasp that silliness of the "assault weapons" definition when they ran this grapic explaining what turns a hum-drum rifle into a scary "ASSAULT WEAPON". Grenade launcher mounts? Bayonet lugs? Are we having a crisis of mass bayonet charges, or homicidal maniacs getting ahold of grenades?

BY WAY OF EXAMPLE: Here is the Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle with a 20 round magazine; here is what is fundamentally the same rifle dressed up as the Ruger tactical rifle. Obama and Biden seem to think that one of these is terrifying and the other no big deal, but I can't see why. I would agree that the folding stock on the tactical rifle could aid in concealment (and the overall weapon is a bit shorter) but the flash suppressor, pistol grip, and bayonet lug won't make the bullets come out faster or hit harder. (Actually, correct me if I am wrong but the shorter barrel should reduce the power and accuracy slightly, for the same ammo.)

FWIW, the ranch rifle is not legal in California, presumably because the magazine is detachable and holds more than ten rounds.

A picture being worth a thousand words, let's check out the calm, Sunday afternoon shooting with the family rifle:

And the SCARY one we need to ban right now because children's lives are in danger:

Later we hope our President will address the incidence of traffic fatalities in this country and talk about a possible ban on rear spoilers, flame decals, and anything else suggesting it is appropriate or acceptable to drive cars in excess of the speed limit. The children!

MORE: More myths here.

NOT PROVEN: The WHite House package explaining their gun control measures includes this:

Limit ammunition magazines to 10 rounds: The case for prohibiting high-capacity magazines has been proven over and over; the shooters at Virginia Tech, Tucson, Aurora, Oak Creek, and Newtown all used magazines holding more than 10 rounds, which would have been prohibited under the 1994 law.

Virginia Tech doesn't make their case. I think Tucson, where the shooter was stopped while reloading, does. And Newtown? The shooter had a semiautomatic rifle, two semiautomatic pistols, and enough time to put three to eleven bullets in each victim. I think that because the school lockdown was mostly effective he ran out of targets and eventually, time.

Comments

[Rob Crawford]

That graphic's a hoot. It's like one of those Highlights for Children "how many differences can you spot" puzzles.

Notice that the "legal" and "illegal" versions have different uppers. And that both have the "grenade launcher mount", the collapsible stock, and the detachable magazine.

So their "legal" gun isn't really "legal".

[NK]

RobC@2:30-- there ya go again-- dinging the NYT on the facts. To the NYT, there are no facts-- just the narative. They are part of TeamDem -- that is the team motto.

[matt]

If anything, a folding stock typically makes a rifle less accurate. Folding stocks were manufactured for paratroopers jumping out of airplanes. Folding stocks are flimsier and do not fit the body as well.

As to bayonet charges, even the President himself said that the military doesn't do those any more.

Otherwise, what I am seeing on many levels is a Leftist putsch. They are charging ahead with all of their agenda, so the republicans had better grow a frigging spine or we are going to lose the country for good and forever.

[matt]

Doctor Oz: So, Mrs. Maloney, do you have any guns in your home?

Mrs. Maloney: Oh, yes, Doctor. We have vermin, you see.

Doctor: Here. Can you fill out this form for me. It's nothing really. Just a report to the Department of Homeland Security. They'll just be keeping it on file.

It is looking pretty damned ominous.

I wonder if there is a reason DHS ordered those hundreds of millions of rounds?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

One of the points of the flash suppressor, etc details, supposedly is to distinguish between a rifle with a detachable magazine and scary military antecedents and one with a detachable magazine used for sporting purposes such as a Mannlicher Schoenauer.
Of course the Mannlicher was originally a military rifle as well (as was the ubiquitous Mauser 98) but no use confusing the issue with facts.

It is worth noting that the vast majority of sniper rifles used by the military to shoot innumerable people very efficiently and at very long ranges are in fact bolt action rifles without detachable magazines, grenade launchers pistol grips or collapsible stocks. Think they're going to be put on the list eventually?

[NK]

Ruger-- a proud Connecticut Company headquartered 1/2 mile from my dogs' Vet. The Ruger Ranch v. the Tactical -- the NYT anf the Obamaniacs right -- they are fundementally different, just... well... LOOK at them! I can't understand why Ca bans both of them.. just LOOK at them.

[rse]

matt-whatever your concern on ed, triple it to get at the putsch level. I have been using that noun in my head for several days.

Also in the end it all tracks back to UN and its determination to take down free markets and individualism wherever they once flourished. All while living as taxpaid mandarins.

We have a global nomenklatura.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I counsel calm.
The 23 skidoo EOs are a feckless joke and reveal the weakness of their position.
The boogie man gun lobby really is as powerful as creeps like DuDu are afraid of at the federal level and nothing meaningful will get through congress. There will be new laws at the state level but only in the blue hells which are already...well...hells.

The spending catastrophe will remain after this stupidity dies down.

My one recommendation is the rest of conservative and libertarian organizations study and model themselves on the gun rights movement and organizations. If they did the left would be in freefall.

[daddy]

For those confused with all the terms slung around in all this gun discussion, the first few minutes of this Video are worthwhile watching for a bit of very basic clarity:

A demonstration of what "caliber" is all about.

[Clarice]

Iggy,I just sent in Sunday's column and that's what I say--study the NRA.

[NK]

IG@2:56/Clarice-- here here.

That said-- I still wish Wayne L had not made Policy Proposals (armed guards in schools) at his december presser. It was too close to the Newtown massacre. If he stuck to the traditional NRA line at that time, the organization is made up of millions of law abiding citizens dedicated to responsible ownership, and then dumped on Obama/Biden today for this useless list of "23", and their hypocrisy (armed guards for my kids-- NONE for yours) the NRA would have come out better.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

But NK, seems to me Wayne L has been vindicated by Barry pressing for money for armed guards for schools after WL was derided by the left for saying just that.

[matt]

I think the Preznit picked "23" because it was his hero Michael Jordan's number.

[NK]

Daddy-- thanks for the primer. My only knowledge of "caliber" up until now related to Naval Guns, i.e. 16 Inch/50 Caliber Iowa Class guns had an 800 inch barrel length.

[Rob Crawford]

If you can conceal ANY rifle, regardless of stock design or barrel length, you're likely wearing a full-length duster and attracting attention because of it.

[NK]

'Vindicated' the merits are fine, it was just too raw in December. You know the rules, only the Left is entitled to exploit madness, the Right is not entitled to address the madness on the merits.
PS: I'm not a fan for more gov't spending, even for worthy ideas.

[Melinda Romanoff]

A-Rod out for 6 months with hip surgery.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

This whole administration proposal is a nothingburger worthy of sneering derision.

[Dave (in MA)]

Here's Google, literally doing what the Republicans figuratively failed to do 2 months ago.

[Dave (in MA)]

Government irony as described by QandO on Facebook:

"The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud that it distributes the greatest amount of free meals and food stamps ever.

"Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because the animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.

[lyle]

A-Rod out for 6 months with hip surgery.

Does the regular season count as time served?

[Melinda Romanoff]

Dave-

Well grabbed!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--'Vindicated' the merits are fine, it was just too raw in December.--

The NRA has prospered precisely because they do not apologize or cringe when the lefties try to play that game. Backing down begets backing down.
Shoving it in their face unapologetically begets strength.

[Clarice]

I don't see how the NRA could have come out better. The president strained and produced something meaningless that will appeal only to the sort if LIV like soccer moms and gormless shoe clerks.

[NK]

While I disagree with the opinion-- this is one fabulous phrase from Clarice-- "...like soccer moms and gormless shoe clerks."

[lyle]

I'm just grateful that Bruno, head of DHS, is standing ready to enforce these EOs.

[jimmyk]

something meaningless that will appeal only to the sort if LIV like soccer moms and gormless shoe clerks.

Who unfortunately apparently represent 52 percent of the population.

[Clarice]

Not when they see the NRA's new ad pointing out that Obama clearly thinks his kids are more worthy of armed protection than theirs, jimmyk. To beat a SOB like Barack you have to fight with a clenched fist.

[centralcal]

Did you all see that Dennis Kucinich has been hired as a Fox News contributor? I think I would actually prefer him over Alan Colmes, not that AC appears to be leaving.

[Dave (in MA)]

centralcal, how about neither, but they send their wives along in their place?

[Dave (in MA)]

Apparently the Don't Be Evil™ bunch didn't run over a donkey after all. They drive on the left side of the road in Botswana, which I found out by, er, Googling. Hmm.

[centralcal]

Listening to a news report on the drive back to work (lunch break), a local reporter spoke to an owner of the largest gun store in our fair city and asked about Obama's edicts announced today. His reply was he didn't think they would make much of an impact on him as they were already down to only 10% of available stock in their store.

In Blue Hell California! LOL!

[Rob Crawford]

Apparently the Don't Be Evil™ bunch didn't run over a donkey after all.

If you step through the images, you can see it stand back up and run towards them.

[Rick Ballard]

Which Free State will offer to pay for a bit of tactical and marksmanship training for school personnel willing to carry? Is there any particular rationale for not deputizing a janitor or secretary who has received proper training?

[Rob Crawford]

Rick, from what I've heard, Texas, Utah, and Ohio(!) have been training teachers for CCW, mostly through volunteer efforts.

[Dave (in MA)]

Rob, but people were assuming that the Google truck was driving on the right as in the US, in which case it appears to run over the blue state mascot.

[narciso]

But this fellow is a misunderstood idealist, or something.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/16/Leftist-Idle-No-More-Supporter-Busted-for-Molotov-Threat-at-Wisc-Capitol

[maryrose]

RB:
An excellent suggestion. Everyone would feel safer as well.
JIB: Good for you finding out what Frederick's school is doing about security. Every parent has a stake in this.
I love it that Bammy adopted one of WayneL's suggestions.
Take that, liberal media. It's really simple common sense.

[Rick Ballard]

Rob,

I've seen a little of the news regarding encouraging CCW among teachers but I was thinking of a slightly more formalized response. I have no objection to the CCW/teacher proposals but a teacher can't (or shouldn't) leave class to respond. Administrative and maintenance personnel would be more effective. It would also be helpful to publicize the percentage of schools within a district having at least one qualified responder. Just percentages - let the nutter guess which ones they might be.

The incidence rate doesn't justify much more response than taking the idiotic "Free Fire Zone" notifications away. There are over 130K K-12 schools in the US.

[centralcal]

I just joined the NRA. Easy peasy and quite affordable. Look forward to getting the decal to put on one of my windows. ;)

Wasn't sure which magazine to subscribe to and I selected the knife for the "free gift."

So there you go, maryrose and Jane - you both can join too!

[Jim Eagle]

Hasn't Hollywood been doing this for years? Demonizing those who have guns, religion and individual liberty while pesonification of them in the movies?

Really, I have no respect for people who make millions of dollars doing make believe. Incredible that we as a intelligent socieity have allowed them to get away with this so long.

[Extraneus]

Notice that the "legal" and "illegal" versions have different uppers. And that both have the "grenade launcher mount", the collapsible stock, and the detachable magazine.

So their "legal" gun isn't really "legal".

Is this true for the "Ranch" version, or is it just that the standard 20-round magazine isn't legal in CA?

Would it be legal in NY with a 10-round magazine?

[Robbo]

The real thing that gun rights supporters need to focus on is that these proposed new laws will do more harm than good. To wit:

AWB: The Australian buy-back only had a 20% success rate. Even taking registration in lieu of buy-back, what % of US gun owners will comply? 10%? So then we have 90% of 3 million "assault weapon" owners who are now felons.

Mags: How many owners of of "high-capacity" mags will be prosecuted even thought they pose no harm but are not David Gregory?

Background checks: if I, say, lend a family member my firearms, or ask him to hold them while I'm stationed overseas (or in NY), will I be charged with not doing a background check?

Mental health: more veterans are dying now from suicide than from combat; how many will not seek help because the government can then confiscate their guns?

Hey, Barack, the question is not 'if one life can be saved'; it's how many lives will your stupid ass laws cost?

[Jim Eagle]

This is so f**king screwy and disturbing I will leave it up to all of you including my Golden Domer friends to believe it.

Manti' teo has an imaginary girlfriend he euolgized and played hard for

[Janet]

Here is the link to the 23 executive actions & the transcript, that Alice linked earlier.

this part gets me -
"This is the land of the free, and it always will be. As Americans, we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights that no man or government can take away from us. But we’ve also long recognized, as our Founders recognized, that with rights come responsibilities. Along with our freedom to live our lives as we will comes an obligation to allow others to do the same. We don’t live in isolation. We live in a society, a government of, and by, and for the people. We are responsible for each other.

The right to worship freely and safely, that right was denied to Sikhs in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. The right to assemble peaceably, that right was denied shoppers in Clackamas, Oregon, and moviegoers in Aurora, Colorado. That most fundamental set of rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness — fundamental rights that were denied to college students at Virginia Tech, and high school students at Columbine, and elementary school students in Newtown, and kids on street corners in Chicago on too frequent a basis to tolerate, and all the families who’ve never imagined that they’d lose a loved one to a bullet — those rights are at stake. We’re responsible."

We are responsible?

[anonamom]

My very plugged in ND alum son says it appears to be true.
Sad, sad, sad.
I'm wondering if he knew it was coming down the pike, and explains his miserable performance in Miami.

[Extraneus]

We are responsible?

Yes, and therefore no knives or baseball bats will be allowed. Cars will no longer be allowed, because they too have the potential to deprive someone of their right to life, or even happiness. How happy would you be if you were stabbed, even with a pin or a thumbtack, for heaven's sake?

If even one child can be saved from sitting on a thumbtack, we at least have to try.

Liberty is more of a living thing, and changes with the times. Illogic, on the other hand, is timeless.

[rse]

Or the NYT selling the EO's as proposals for legislation.

No. That was a we are doing this whatever Congress says and find a court to stop me.

The advantage of all those weak courses.

[Jim Eagle]

anonamom,

It will never take away from the fact that ND had a great year and performed beyond expectations. Forget the championship game. Plus they had the best band by far:)

[narciso]

Very 'winning the future' JiB, what was the excuse for the rest of the team, though;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/01/16/Bob-Schieffer-compares-NRA-to-Nazis

[Jim Eagle]

Hey, Barack, while we are it, lets get those bastards at Boening and ground all their 787's.

Good idea, Joe. My NLRB are tired of fighting them. let the FAA take over for the hit.

[anonamom]

Yes, jib, the band is the best!

[Captain Hate]

Vitale must be despondent; between ND taking major pipe twice in a week and Duke losing, the one-eyed troll should be on suicide watch.

[Extraneus]

Good question.

What does the Department of “Homeland Security” suddenly need 1.4 billion more rounds of ammunition at the very point the same government is making it harder for citizens to arm themselves?

[Jim Eagle]

CH,

I once met Dickie V in a Southwest Airlines line up (A natch). He is just a great Italian-American grandfather who is a little off his rocker from time to time. But he was a fun guy to talk to a the time. We only talked about Orlando and why people go there - no basketball.. Good guy believe me.

[Gus]

Maybe we can outlaw some of the more nasty abortions by KING BAMSTER FIAT too!!!

[Gus]

Hey Capn. Sadly, I predicted the Packers score correctly!!! 31. I got the second part wrong.

[Captain Hate]

JiB, despite how Vitale may irk me, his passion for the game of basketball is genuine. I'm sure you're right that he's a good guy but he goes sooooooo over the top sometimes (a situation with which I'm not completely unfamiliar...).

[Captain Hate]

Gus, I did think of that when I saw the score.

[narciso]

And it seems almost counterintuitive, when Anderson Vanderbilt is on a story, it's a fair
bet he's got it wrong, somehow;

http://minx.cc/?post=336646

[Danube of Thought iPad]

"The right to worship freely and safely, that right was denied to Sikhs in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. The right to assemble peaceably, that right was denied shoppers in Clackamas, Oregon, and moviegoers in Aurora, Colorado. That most fundamental set of rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness — fundamental rights that were denied to college students at Virginia Tech, and high school students at Columbine..."

Good God in heaven. Does this man understand that we hold those rights not against one another but against the government? And he studied Con Law under Tribe?

[narciso]

Is he really that stupid, or pandering to the muddle, Danube, one would think the latter, since the circumstances at Klackamas.

[Clarice]

Why do you end that with a question mark, DoT? Say it loud and proud--Obama studied Con Law under Tribe!

[Skoot]

I think the dumb NY law will be in the courts for years. Parts of it seem to be in direct conflict with McDonald v. Chicago for starters.

[narciso]

And Roberto Unger, and Derrick Bell, sort of ecumenical idiocy,

[Jim Miller]

Rob Crawford - Well, there is always the traditional way to conceal long guns, violin cases. Which would draw attention in some neighborhoods, but not others.

Your general point is right, though. The smaller the gun, the easier it is to conceal.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

So...Te'o is as loony as the guy in Fargo. Is he a first-round pick?

[boatbuilder]

Obama doesn't care whether his "EO" has any legal impact whatsoever. As far as the public he is directing this to is concerned, he has done what needs to be done, and bad people doing bad things with bad guns is no longer allowed, despite Republican opposition.

[narciso]

It seems so, then again, who knows

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/08/manti-teo-will-be-a-first-round-pick-but-some-question-his-speed/

[boatbuilder]

"Would it be legal in New York with a 10 round magazine."

Only if you paint it pink and put a smiley face on the stock.

[boatbuilder]

And since the odds of a mass killing of first graders are about the same as they were before Newtown happened, he gets to say that his executive order prevented another Newtown. Win-Win!

[daddy]

Not when they see the NRA's new ad pointing out that Obama clearly thinks his kids are more worthy of armed protection than theirs, jimmyk.

Clarice,

All 3 of the panel on Brett Baire's show today thought the NRA Ad was way out of line. The 3 were Steve Hayes, Juan William's, and Dr K. I just do not understand what they smoke back there inside of the Beltway.

[daddy]

while we are it, lets get those bastards at Boening and ground all their 787's.

I hope and expect that the Boeing 787 will eventually come out of this just fine, but this jibes with my longtime opinion that I do not want to be the 1st Launch Customer for a new transport Airplane. Let somebody else be the guinea pig and work out the initial kinks.

[rse]

DOT-that reflects systems thinking and interdependencies and we are all one community whether we like it or not and we just do not know it yet.

BO has drank so deeply in the who you are is nothing inherent in you but rather the social interactions and physical environment you were born into. Since those priviliges are just luck and have nothing to do with you, all levelling is warranted to get all back on an even keel.

Cliff nOtes for Critical Thinking Schemers on route to community organizing. This is no longer a variance at a few places.

We have numerous schools actually teaching Kohlberg;s Theory of Moral Devt and the Universal Love Principle.

Something I was reading today explained graphically why Erik Erikson mattered so much and it was a true beleiver. I kept thinking ValJar and his mom believed this deeply and it is how he explains any limitation. Not him. Just environmetal differences.

[sailor]

daddy, I saw that on Brett's show also. I must admit I was amazed. I thought the NRA ad was perfect. But, what do I know? I am the 47%!

[Jimmyk]

"And since the odds of a mass killing of first graders are about the same as they were before Newtown happened, he gets to say that his executive order prevented another Newtown. Win-Win!"

Ah, the old 'jobs created or saved' gambit, in this case 'mass killings prevented.' Make up any number you like.

[daddy]

I'm with you sailor. I fail to see the outrageousness of a factual ad, factually calling the President an "Elitist Hypocrite." I think we need a hell of a lot more such ads pointing out this President's elitist hypocrisy.

[narciso]

Well this has really worked out well'

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/al-qaeda-aqim-emir-mokhtar-belmokhtar-behind-algerian-gas-field-raid/

[Danube of Thought iPad]

I'd like to see the NRA attack the armed guards of morbidly obese propagandist Michael Moore, or david Brock, or the morbidly obese Roseanne Barr. (Or was it the morbidly obese Rosie O'Donnell?)

[glasater]

Kudlow thought the NRA ad was terrible along with his guest Joe Scarborough on his show The Kudlow Report today.

The two were basically talking trash about 'extremist elements' in the R party, i.e. Tea Party and how they could take the party back.

[narciso]

well, Brock is relatively wraithlike, much like the nazguls he acts like;

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/01/al_qaeda_commander_c.php

[sbw]

I used to belong to the NRA as a teenager.

I rejoined today.

[narciso]

Honestly, we need more words in other languages, to describe this trainwreck;

http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2013/01/republocrats_an.html

[Clarice]

If anyone has a spare NRA sticker, send it to me, please. I'm too lazy to spend months getting a license in DC but the sticker might help.

[narciso]

And the Post says, O'Malley's budget is just copacetic, with the tax increases, I don't think even D.C. can pull the state out of it's morass.

[Captain Hate]

Kudlow thought the NRA ad was terrible along with his guest Joe Scarborough on his show The Kudlow Report today.

The two were basically talking trash about 'extremist elements' in the R party, i.e. Tea Party and how they could take the party back.

Kudlow made more sense when he was on the sauce. Getting off it probably saved his life but it turned him into a sap of a pundit.

[Danube of Thought iPad]

Very reliably informed that ol' Larry had an extremely serious coke problem.

[narciso]

Well any interaction, that doesn't involves slapping Scarborough senseless, I know how could you tell, is a wasted exercise,

[Melinda Romanoff]

DoT-

It was a massive, and financially debilitating, blow habit. Decades ago. We had "mutual friends", in an earlier life.

[Captain Hate]

Yeah he seemed twitchy enough for a blow head. I wish he'd do something else with his life now that he has it at least somewhat in order. His commentary is more the "I'm ok you're ok" nonsense infesting television.

[Captain Hate]

So...Te'o is as loony as the guy in Fargo. Is he a first-round pick?

Hard to say. By all reasonable measures he should've dropped like a rock in the last week but the enneffell has plenty of "bigger fools" capable of generating head scratchers.

[jorod]

So why are people in Democrat controlled Chicago where the welfare state is strongest killing each other? Nobody seems to have an answer for that. Will we ever get to the truth of the matter?

[Danube of Thought iPad]

"We had 'mutual friends', in an earlier life."

Ditto.

[Lightwave]

What gets me is the number of folks looking at this list and saying "that's all he's going to do?"

Yes, idiots. That's all he's going to do, because the rest of this legislation will never pass the Senate, and never get a vote in the House.

[narciso]

So what bizarre tropical concoction, is Cramer, on, some mash of ibogaine and tapioca.

[Clarice]

Wikipedia reports that addiction as fact. He also started out as a left wing SDS supporter. Kudlow's covered he track.

[narciso]

And it occasioned his conversion to Catholicism, fair enough, interestingly I read about Kudlow's
SDS status, in a Sid Blumenthal book, based on his reporting at the post, as if this somehow discredited his own analysis,

[Melinda Romanoff]

narciso-

I really don't want to revisit the habits of GSer's of that era. Let's just say they were in charge of the neon.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

But the improved database for conducting background checks, which is part of the plan Obama announced today, *would* have prevented the VaTech massacre:

http://current.com/shows/the-young-turks/videos/obamas-executive-order-improving-background-check-database-definitely-would-have-prevented-virginia-tech-says-victims-brother

[narciso]

No, I don't care about then, he seems insane now.