Imminent, Immediate, And Rand Paul Droning On

Rand Paul stepped in it yesterday with an aggressive modification to what people thought was his No Drones Over America policy:

Earlier today Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) made a remark about drones on Fox News Business that suggested his position had changed. “If there is a killer on the loose in a neighborhood, I’m not against drones being used to search them," Paul said.

"If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him, but it’s different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities.”

Wow. What about having the police arrest him, wonders Patterico?

Paul issued a clarification:

Armed drones should not be used in normal crime situations. They only may only be considered in extraordinary, lethal situations where there is an ongoing, imminent threat. I described that scenario previously during my Senate filibuster.

“Additionally, surveillance drones should only be used with warrants and specific targets.

And so he did. Links to hour-by-hour unoffical transcripts of his filibuster are available at his website. This is from hour 3:

Well, you know, to my thinking, only a bunch of government lawyers could come up with a definition for imminent that says it isn't immediate. So that's the first problem with it. Is that going to be the standard that's used in America? That has to be an imminent threat but it doesn't have to be immediate, because then my next question, what does that mean? Does that mean noncombatants who you think might someday be combatants are an imminent threat? I mean, it is a pretty important question, what is imminent? No, there is no question what is imminent lethal force. Someone aiming a gun at you, a missile, a bomb, any of these things is imminent, and no one questions that. No one questions using lethal force to stop any kind of imminent attack. But we become a little bit worried when the President says imminent doesn't have to mean immediate. And when that happens and then when you see, from what we can tell from the unclassified portion of the drone attacks overseas, many of these people are not involved in combat.

Well. A drone stike to kill al-Awlaki while he is riding in a car and posing an imminent threat of proselytizing on behalf of militant Islam is one thing. A guy waving a gun may be something else.

Now, in the normal course of business I would favor a conventional arrest. However, I hark back to the famous North Hollywood shootout in LA where two men with full body armor stood off the LAPD. A drone strike might have been helpful, or at least, would have ocurred in the context imagined by Rand Paul. OK, it also might have been crazy, since it was downtown LA, but the cops were a bit outgunned. Eventually a SWAT armored truck (and heavier weaponry) helped turn the tide.

Upon further reflection, I am having a hard time imagining a scenario where a domestic drone strike would make sense. If it is a crowded urban setting with many lives at risk, a drone missile explosion seems problematic. On the other hand, if it is more of a rural, or at least isolated setting (maybe the LA docks or some such) then what is the hurry and why can't we wait for conventional law enforcement?

All that said, Paul does seem to have noted the imminent lethal threat exception back during the filibuster, so we count that in his favor.

Comments

[Threadkiller]

Where is Blue Thunder when you need it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHvSjaHU7c

[Melinda Romanoff]

The LA Shooters also exposed how underpowered the LAPD actually was at the time.

[daddy]

How does this work again?

Last week: WaPo: 90 percent of Americans want expanded background checks on guns. Why isn’t this a political slam dunk?

Today: CNN Poll: Poll: Less than half of Americans upset about Senate gun vote

Either 140 Million Americans changed their opinions in just one week, or somebody was lying to us.

[Rick Ballard]

I understand the concern about collateral damage from drone strikes but it has to be weighed against the potential damage from the rounds expended by security forces as they force perpetrators to commit or attempt suicide with near misses.

Maybe a Heckfire missile could be developed with a kill radius no larger than a fishing boat?

[NK]

Rand Paul (the clarified lethal exception one) is being consistent here.

[NK]

Now speaking of REAL hypocrits-- back in the day HildaBeast was a NY Post fan and arch Senate Oversight champion: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/05/18/wh.hillary/

[NK]

Wait.. I thought it was the boxing: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/23/boston-mosque-radicals/2101411/

[rse]

Janet-thanks for the Sultan Knish link on the earlier thread. I like how he phrased the conflict over political systems. I am dealing with that aspiration and am still stewing over the Common Core nominal sponsor referring to the "historical forces that have shaped the current world system." Singular not plural. No idiots trying to escape that was what two World Wars and the Cold War were about. It also appears to be what Islam and UNESCO want. But it should not be the prevailing philosophy in US classrooms.

OL-you did understand me correctly. The question becomes does the child or adult read phonetically and fluently. Which is far rarer than you think. If so, they can treat the screen as merely another means to access print.

For most, however, the switch will cause the visual part of working memory to be used. It is not what links to long term memory. Which remains a fairly empty hotel for most college kids these days. It's the aural that links to LTM. The fact that the computer is a cognitive toll that weakens the mind is something that radicals have been aware of for decades. They view it as a feature not a bug.

Many of the so-called e textbooks are really videos and are going to be processed that way by the mind. Remember I have Paul Ehrlich saying that they only want a few defining concepts to be what students remember. Everyday life then gets filtered through racism and oppression and systems thinking and a belief in causation when there isn't necessarily.

Very few kids can go back and forth between even a book on a kindle and a hard copy with equal skill and comprehension.

[Thomas Collins]

From NK's 1:24 PM link:

"A former trustee appears in a series of videos in which he advocates treating gays as criminals, says husbands should sometimes beat their wives and calls on Allah (God) to kill Zionists and Jews, according to Americans for Peace and Tolerance, an interfaith group that has investigated the mosques."

An obviously biased article. I'm sure the reported remarks were metaphorical for chanting while reading Rumi poems and working on internal being. It's just that we less enlightened people don't understand cosmic metaphor.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

North Hollywood was peanuts compared to April 11, 1986 in Miami.

Lost 2 FBI agents that day in fierce firefight. 11 years later LAPD did learn a thing evidently.

Link

[RK]

Not that I thought it was possible but you may be being a little too literal. Can you really not imagine a 'drone' the size of a humming bird or a RC copter armed with something much more selective than a Hellfire? Or a disposable drone that just has the equivalent of a grenade that can fly up next to a perp and go boom?

Isn't that a real scenario in the very near future if it already isn't out there now?

Everybody keeps thinking of drones as mini-planes. I would bet there are plenty of people in DARPA who think of them as oversized insects.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

didn't learn a thing

[Thomas Collins]

By they way, did Mr. Thorne/Heinz, out Secretary of State, really assert the equivalence of those murdered and maimed by the Chechen jihadists and those Turkish terrorists on the boat that the Israelis acted in self-defense against (Netanyahu's apology being clearly a matter of reason of state). If Kerry did this, he has forfeited any legitimate authority to represent the US in any position related to foreign relations.

[henry]

RK, they could be robotic squirrels with laser beams for eyes to those people. That possibility should make people more nervous than the expensive predator type drones.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

TC,

You expected more smart diplomacy?:)

[Rick Ballard]

"Isn't that a real scenario in the very near future if it already isn't out there now?"

RK,

Yes it is. The question is "Who gets to make the "shoot on sight" determination?". Mayor Goode's rather extravagant response in Philadelphia and Janet Reno's incineration order in Waco are examples of the potential for overkill.

Zapping a perp with a minidrone while he's shooting at security forces is no different than a sniper making a good shot. That's the easy one. Blowing up a suspect who may be holding hostages is a little tougher call.

I really believe some people are actually upset at the lack of "due process" involved in situations where perpetrators are ordered killed. Perhaps Dr. Gosnell could give a series of lectures which would relieve their process concerns?

[James D.]

If Kerry did this, he has forfeited any legitimate authority to represent the US in any position related to foreign relations.

Didn't he do that in, oh, 1973 or so?

[NK]

very true... the medal tosser did just that

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

A little OT but not by much.

A friend just sent me a YouTube video of the US Army response to the Bonus Army march and encampment in 1932 in DC. Led by MacArthur with supporting roles by Patton (Calvary) and Ike (Aid-de-camp).

It shows MacArthur disobeying another Potus (Hoover) by following the dispersed Army over the drawbridge.

So, when I hear all this talk defending gun control because we are paranoid to tyranny and that it can't happen here, I say baloney. Its already happened once on Presidential orders only.

[Gus]

In his WINTER SOLDIER diatribe against our soldiers. Kerry-Heinz admitted to being complicit, part and parcel of war crimes. Poisoned food stocks, rapes, well you have all heard the JJJJJJENJJJJJIS KHAN speech.
Kerry admitted to being a WAR CRIMINAL and an OFFICER WAR CRIMINAL.

When did he pay his debt? Secondarily, Kerry tossed SOMEONE ELSE'S medals over the White House fence. He proudly displays his in his office.

[PaulV]

Janet Reno has to burn the children alive to save them.

[narciso]

'winning the future,' do they get a group rate;

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/04/breaking-saudi-student-alharbi-visited-the-white-house-several-times-since-2009/

[narciso]

On another front;

http://washingtonexaminer.com/judge-to-janet-napolitano-you-have-to-deport-illegal-immigrants/article/2528019

[hit and run]

A just concluded email/phone conversation with mrs hit and run....

Her (email): [so-and-so's] family is surprising her with a visit and she wants to take a half day on Thurs and Fri.

Me (email): You know......that does not sound like a surprise by the normal usage in the English language. ;)

Her (on phone after reading email): Fine, I should have said surprised.

Me: You want to hear that in the pluperfect?

Her: No, stop....

[cross-talk]

Me: [so-and-so] had planned on another weekend alone....

Her: I'm hanging up now.

Me: ....when her family surprised her with the news....

::click::

[Extraneus]

Williams-Sonoma reportedly pulls pressure cookers from stores in Massachusetts

"It's a temporary thing, out of respect," a manager at the Williams-Sonoma store at the Natick Mall told the website. He referred all other questions to the company's corporate headquarters.

[Clarice]

al Harbi visited WH several times; has pics of Michelle O visiting him in hospital on his FB page.http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/04/breaking-saudi-student-alharbi-visited-the-white-house-several-times-since-2009/

WTF?

[Melinda Romanoff]

narciso-

How interesting about Alharbi's visitation rights.....

You have got to hate another wasted crisis, created or not.

[Janet]

Yeah, Clarice. I don't know what to make of that whole story. I didn't realize there were pics of Michelle Obama at the hospital. I thought is was just reported in a Saudi newspaper without pics.

[Old Lurker]

Hit I have a guest room ready for you. Stay as long as you must

[Extraneus]

Are there pics of Michelle visiting any other Boston wounded?

[sbwaters]

Drones, huh? Life imitates art:

Are those sharks with laser beams attached to their heads?

Cool! You mean that I actually have frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads?

[Janet]

Not that I know of Extraneus. The al-Harbi stories are really sketchy.

[Janet]

Here the hospital picture to see.
Pic Of The Day…

"Jeff Bauman, the Boston Marathon bombing victim who became the face of a nation’s sorrow when he was photographed being rushed from the horror scene missing a leg, paid a birthday visit to a fellow victim at Boston Medical Center, NBC affiliate 7 News reported."

[hit and run]

Ext:
Are there pics of Michelle visiting any other Boston wounded?

Yes.

And stories.

BOSTON (CBS) - President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama visited victims of the Boston Marathon bombings at several hospitals Thursday afternoon.

After attending an interfaith service at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross, the president rode to Massachusetts General Hospital where he met privately with patients, their families and hospital staff.

The First Lady went to Boston Children’s Hospital, where she visited the medical and surgical intensive care unit.

Afterwards, she went next door to Brigham and Women’s Hospital to meet more victims and their families for more than an hour.

[NK]

1. God bless Jeff Bauman.. victimized by Jihadi monsters, but he kept his wits about him and helped all of us by helping ID the monsters, now he's doing what he can to help other wounded;

2. somethings up with this al-Harabi kid, Prince Faud marches in and gives Obummer and Mooschelle their marching orders?

3. Unfortunate pic of Mooschelle, she looks so bored checking in on that kid.

[AliceH]

Good thing they visited Thursday when it was safe, vs. Friday when the city was all "shelter in place" dangerous.

[Extraneus]

Thanks, hit. Same outfit, same day.

Of course, I've maintained that Obama started bowing to other foreign leaders in order to hide the fact that his bow to Abdullah was real.

...

[Melinda Romanoff]

hit-

Thanks for adding depth to what I didn't know about her visiting others.

[narciso]

Vizzini alert in that Times piece;

Given the layers of irony, sarcasm and joking often employed on Twitter, it can be difficult to parse the messages of a stranger. Yet some of them can seem menacing or portentous, given what we now suspect: “a decade in america already, I want out,” “Never underestimate the rebel with a cause” or “No one is really violent until they’re with the homies.” But others suggest a more Holden Caulfield-like adolescent alienation: “some people are just misunderstood by the world thus the increase of suicide rates.”

[Rob Crawford]

Of course, I've maintained that Obama started bowing to other foreign leaders in order to hide the fact that his bow to Abdullah was real.

That wasn't Obama bowing; it was him making an offer.

[Rick Ballard]

NK,

I thought the First Lady looked fine. Maybe her helmet was a little heavy or too tight but otherwise as good as ever.

[narciso]

The Solon of Scranton, had to offer his wisdom'

'how the terrorists didn't succeed, come again, one was runover by the brother, the other was indentified by a cooped up smoker, on his brake,

[DoT on iPad]

Inlaws here. See ya.

[Janet]

3 cheers for smokers!

hip, hip, hooray!
hip, hip, hooray!
hip, hip, hooray!

[NK]

Prince Faud = Prince Saud

[sbwaters]

Prince Faud = Prince Saud

I would have believed either one.

[centralcal]

Well, well, well - looks like the widow of Terrorist #1 is a shoplifter too. She stole $60 +/- worth of clothes from Old Navy with another gal pal, when she was 18 y.o.

[Janet]

Diversity is worth it, centralcal. Who are we to judge?

[Janet]

Ann Coulter - "Teddy Kennedy's 1965 immigration act so dramatically altered the kinds of immigrants America admits that, since 1969, about 85 percent of legal immigrants have come from the Third World. They bring Third World levels of poverty, fertility, illegitimacy and domestic violence with them."

[centralcal]

Perfect.

Soledad O'Brien has been named a distinguished visiting fellow at Harvard Graduate School of Education - for the 2013-2014 year.

[narciso]

Oh, Frabjous joy, who's fooling who though.

[pagar]

"If Kerry did this, he has forfeited any legitimate authority to represent the US in any position related to foreign relations.

Didn't he do that in, oh, 1973 or so?"

Every single Senator who voted to confirm
knew what he was.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/29/16758482-senate-votes-to-confirm-kerry-as-secretary-of-state?lite

[James D.]

centrical, that's a joke, right? From The Onion or some other parody site?

That can't actually be true...? Even by the vapid standards of our so-called "elite", that's beyond absurd...

[centralcal]

Yup, diversity, indeed - Janet.

Shoplifters
Welfare Recipients
Drug Dealers
Wife Beaters

oh, and terrorism on the side. All perfectly diverse!

[centralcal]

Oh, but it is all so perfectly true, James D!

The Next Steps for Soledad O'Brien

[centralcal]

From the PuffHo write up on the S.O.B. honors:

Harvard announced that O'Brien, also an alumna, would spend the 2013-2014 year delving into topics related to public education in America. "On Appian Way, in the heart of the Ed School campus, a banner reads, 'Education Is a Civil Right.' I believe this passionately and look forward to ensuring that right is a reality by working with the students, faculty, and staff at the Harvard Graduate School of Education and the rest of the Harvard University community," O'Brien said. "This appointment is both honor and opportunity.

[centralcal]

Perfect and perfectly and perfection is my new mantra for all liberal insanity. Because it is all so P E R F E C T.

[cajunkate]

Sen. Ted Cruz is of the same caliber as John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Paul Revere etc. We are very fortunate to have him in the Senate at this precarious time in history. I pray he becomes President at the earliest.....

[centralcal]

uh oh.

Is this John Boehner's future son-in-law?

speechless. No, wait - perfect! (eyeroll)

[Jane on Ipad]

Have I been permanently banned from posting.

[Melinda Romanoff]

Jane-

Welcome to the club of intermittent postability! Dues are collected on the first of the month.

[Frau Sicherheitsdienst]

When you've lost Bob Beckel...

Beckel joins Anduril is recommending a halt to further Muslim students entering the US. The difference is that Beckel thinks the existing students/immigrants should be allowed to stay and will assimilate better if there are fewer of them.

“There are 75,000 Muslim students on visas in this country. A student visa is easiest thing to get. One of people in 9/11 was on a student visa, and there have been others on student visas,” he said.

“How many of those have been looked at very carefully? That is one of problems. We can say only a few have gotten in on student visas but we have a lot of students here who may themselves harbor some feelings [of] resentment toward the United States. They come from countries where they are frankly brainwashed about the United States from the beginning. Their leaders don’t like the United States.”

Politico

[Old Lurker]

Frau, your quoting Bob Beckle evokes the same reaction in me than another did yesterday when the post started "Shep Smith got something right..."

ie...What were you thinking! Did you stick fingers in electric outlets as a kid just to see what would happen?

[matt]

In a country that isn't supposed to check religion when considering immigration, how do we know that there are 75,000 Muslim students here?

That sounds like a low number as well. I would imagine as many right here in Southern California.

[Old Lurker]

There are at least that many at Tysons Corner Mall in DC any Saturday. Ask Clarice or Janet.

[Janet]

how many come in under this - "Alharbi was admitted into the country under a “special advisory option,” which is usually reserved for visiting politicians, VIPs, or journalists. The event file cover page indicates he was granted his status without full vetting."

You know how trustworthy those ME journalists are! Who says they are journalists? Are they kept track of?

[Janet]

Absolutely, OL. There are noticeably more Muslims in Arlington & Falls Church in the last 5 yrs or so.

[Skoot]

Bombers only had one 9mm handgun per AP LUN.

Lends credence to reporting they wanted Collier's gun. I don't think they had a long gun, at this point.

[NK]

"Over 250 rounds fired" so ...what.... 235 rounds by cops and 15 by Tamerlan? Where did the watertown cops get their training, the LAPD?

[Rick Ballard]

"Are they kept track of?"

Only if they're picked up by drone surveillance of Methodist Bake Sales.

The problem I have with the student visas is the number of Americans whose exposure to the cream of rich, English speaking Mahometans dulls them to the reality of populations much dumber, on average, than even Americans. The same goes for Chinese students, every one of whom is backed by 15,000 buck toothed peasants who will never, ever have their minimal IQs tested because the state would never allow it. The Chinese kids here are much smarter and much more likely to be very hard workers than the Mahometan kids but they are not particularly representative of the populations from which they are drawn any more than are the Mahometans.

[BB Key]

Beck said this morning that of the 75,000 Muslims here on student visas 15,000 are not enrolled in school .

[Rob Crawford]

Bombers only had one 9mm handgun per AP LUN.

9mm? That's the one that was confused for a BB gun, right?

/sarc (proud .45 owner)

[matt]

They get excited and can't help themselves, NK. 500 rounds into the boat. Sheesh...

I don't see how drones would have altered a thing with the Marathon bombers. Thr time to launch them and calibrate them to a threat would seem inordinately long to be useful in most police situations.

In the cities just the noise between buildings, cell towers, etc would make the use limited.

Outside of major urban areas how would they be used? as rocket launchers? I really, really don't think that is a good idea after the display of incredible marksmanship in Watertown.

The eejits would target a SUV and hit a WalMart or day care center knowing the degree of competence involved.

[Marlene]

ccal@4:53...a little bird I know was at a meeting with the Speaker last week and yes,it is true.

[cathyf]

Can't post from firefox. Safari?

[maryrose]

A very large population of Muslims in Dearborn Michigan and Lakewood ,Ohio on the west side of Cleveland. I think 75,000 is a very conservative. Saudi visa is good from 2012-2016. We had an exchange student that had to renew every 2 years, We spent hours on the phone with some state department flunky trying to get her approved for 1 year of college study. Are all current vsas good for 4 years? what are the policies? Does anyone know. I will wait for Janet to deport those people she was ordered to deport. At every press availability someone should ask Obama or Carney-"Have you deported those illegal aliens yet? And yes I still call them aliens because they don't belong here and are alien to our country.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

This guy is now Bozo squared.

Like Boston and the UN we have them too.

[pagar]

No need to look for this guy in the neighbor,
they have found him.

http://www.marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2013/04/boy-shot-to-death-blocks-from-obamas.html

[lyle]

9mm? That's the one that was confused for a BB gun, right?

/sarc (proud .45 owner)

As a proud owner of both calibers, I take no offense. But I'm still partial to my Beretta model 92 (9mm).

[narciso]

CAn we send this twit along with them;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/04/24/NPR-Host-Constitution-Like-Tinkerbell-Only-Alive

[maryrose]

15,00 not in school? What are they doing here then? Living on welfare and talking on their free cell phones?
"Are they kept track of? I love Rick's answer but
Are they kept track of or are they in the wind and present at the Boston Marathon. I think the real answer is No, under this dumbo administration, they are not tracked. Heck they don't even have to go to school. If they flunk out, do they still get to stay here?

[centralcal]

Golly, Marlene - I was kinda/sorta hoping the Enquirer had it wrong!

cathyf - my Firefox commenting problems stopped when I logged into Typepad (both at home and at work). Twice today when my comments didn't post, it was because I was not logged in.

[Jack is Back! (On his iPad)]

matt,

Do you know they used live. ammo? Reports were the used dummy blanks to scare him. Me? I hope with civvies exposed they chose the later.

[narciso]

Well we saw the tracer fire, that wasn't blanks I don't think, although I'm surprised there was much left of the boat.

[Marlene]

ccal,my source (the little bird) said Mr.Speaker was good natured about it,he made a joke about the family Christmas card this year.

[lyle]

Anyone flown anywhere lately? Flew to Phoenix and back two weekends ago and the security lines were noticeably longer and slower; plenty of TSA peoples but not too many of them working. (If you call what they do "working.") I counted six unused x-ray/scanner stations in Sky Harbor. Took 40 minutes to get through.

Thanks a lot, you evil rethuglicans.

[AliceH]

--after the display of incredible marksmanship...--

Serious question - since shot placement is frequently (even mostly?) more critical than caliber, why don't cops use laser sights? I just added lasergrips to my .38spc** and my shooting stance, aim, trigger pull, follow through, etc. was hugely improved right away.

**Rob Crawford - a .38 is like a bigger, slightly louder BB gun.

[lyle]

500 rounds is a lot of ammo to pump into the boat, but considering how many LEO types were there, that isn't that many per, is it?

[narciso]

I would think they would have considering it was at night;

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/24/CIA-boston-bomber-watchlist

[Extraneus]

In case anyone hasn't seen this, here's Fox News reporter Mike Tobin masterfully fending off a couple of women trying to kiss him on camera:

"Please don't do that."

[Ignatz]

--They get excited and can't help themselves, NK. 500 rounds into the boat. Sheesh... Reports were the used dummy blanks to scare him.--

Unless the boat in the guys backyard he was hiding in was the USS New Jersey it's hard to see how they could have put 500 rounds into it without accidentally ventilating him to the point of reducing him to the ambient temperature.

[Dave (in MA)]

Extraneus, it would have been even better if he'd conked their heads together -style.

[lyle]

it's hard to see how they could have put 500 rounds into it without accidentally ventilating him to the point of reducing him to the ambient temperature.

Agreed. Has anyone posted a picture of the boat here? I've seen it somewhere on the intarwebs but I don't remember where. If they were shooting blanks, color me surprised at the penetration power of a blank. ;)

[Rick Ballard]

Ignatz,

This UK Mail piece has the best shot of the boat that I've found. I count 24 bullet holes in the exposed section. I believe he was curled around a center mounted inboard. He was also on the opposite side of the inboard from the side displayed in the photo.

I could believe 200 rounds but 500 seems a stretch.

[Ignatz]

--since shot placement is frequently (even mostly?) more critical than caliber--

With the exception of a BB gun, shot placement is always more critical than caliber.
It is quite possible to incapacitate a person immediately with a 22LR to the brain, spine or heart. It is quite possible to be killed by someone you have just shot in the leg or arm with a 450 Rigby or 505 Gibbs.
Karamojo Bell killed thousands of elephants with a 6.5mm Mannlicher and 7mm Mauser while hundreds of people have been stomped to death after a poorly placed 450 or 577 Nitro Express.

[AliceH]

Thanks, Iggy. That's my belief, and my caution in saying that outright was actually just a clumsy attempt to appease the caliber warriors.

[Extraneus]

Thousands of elephants? Disgusting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._D._M._Bell

[OldTimer]

My grandchildren and great grandchildren will be dealing with a political immigration crisis, spearheaded in 1969 by a wealthy, drunk anti-American Senator from Boston. Most of us will be dead and buried by then, so What Difference Does It Make..

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/dgreenfield/the-islamic-political-takeover-of-america/

[Rick Ballard]

Proposed scenario:

The boat was very close to a fence.

All shots were taken from the side depicted by the picture.

Only 30-40 live rounds were fired.

He was saved by shrinking himself down on the off side of the inboard engine.

200 - 500 blanks were fired as a suppression tactic.

That fits but it doesn't explain why tear gas wasn't used to drive him out.

[Ignatz]

--That's my belief, and my caution in saying that outright was actually just a clumsy attempt to appease the caliber warriors.--

Well, in certain circumstances caliber matters too. Use Enough Gun is the name of a famous book on dangerous game hunting in Africa.
Excellent shot placement with a 22LR won't do much through an inch or two of skin and a foot or more of spongy elephant skull.

Probably noticeably lacking in the midst of a rampaging herd of stoneheaded Libtards and Feminazis as well.