Life After Kobe

I don't like the Lakers and I don't like Kobe Bryant, but I really don't like seeing him go down like this. I was hoping for a first-round humiliation, really, as this dated story explains.

A FEAST FOR THE SECOND-GUESSERS: Improbably?

Improbably, the tear followed  two more lower-body injuries suffered earlier in the game.

Compensation for injury A can often lead to injury B - this is not neuroscience here. Of course, benching Kobe late in a close, must-win game would require a strait jacket or a thorazine dart gun, but coaches and trainers are supposed to make these tough calls.

 

Comments

[peter]

I always gave the guy a pass, because he can speak Italian. Just one of my quirks.

[Jim Eagle]

Test. Cannot post either on Safari or Firefox if I include a link. Anyone else?

[hit and run]

Are you formatting the link, JiB? Have you tried just putting in the url like narciso does?

[Captain Hate]

As much as I have thought Kobe was a lowlife and unconvicted rapist in the past, he's kept his nose clean lately and has done his best to carry a fading team. D'Antoni was surely an idiot to play him as many minutes as he has.

[hit and run]

Test

Looks like I can post a link. I'm on chrome.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

Heard what happened to Tiger?

[Captain Hate]

DoT, it's being discussed on the Non-Story thread.

[hit and run]

Tiger should not be willing to continue under the circumstances.

If he had been made aware of his violation during his round yesterday, even if only whispered in his ear where no one else would have ever known, he would have taken the two stroke penalty.

Having been made aware of it now, there is a prescribed penalty for his actions (now the violation is signing an incorrect scorecard). He should be willing to accept it, even if he has to self-impose it because the tournament is unwilling to do the right thing.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

Hit, my understanding is that, since the 2012 amendment to the rule, the. Prescribed penalty is the two-stroke one that has been imposed.

[hit and run]

That's the HDTV rule, though, right?

Should not apply at all.

That rule states that if a player does not catch an inadvertent violation that someone on tv does.

By his own words, Tiger placed the ball two yards from its original position. He intended it to to be two yards. He wanted that two yard difference to improve his shot.

It may well be that he was ignorant of the rule, but ignorance is no defense.

The HDTV rule would only apply if Tiger intended to put the ball back in its original position, but inadvertently ended up two yards away (that some vigilant viewer saw and reported).

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

The TV rule was applied because they learned of it from his TV interview.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

While he was playing 18, a viewer called in and said he had made an improper drop. Before he signed his card,mthe rules committee reviewed it and said he was OK. They only looked again on the basis of his interview.

[gmax]

So JEF is another in a long line of folks who pay less in taxes than Warren Buffett's secretary? Is there a none hypocrite Democrat in national office? Even just one? Sheesh

[Stephanie]

Bringing forward from the other thread:

True on the HD rule, but Augusta released a statement as follows:

Yesterday afternoon, the Rules Committee was made aware of a possible rules violation that involved a drop by Tiger Woods on the 15th hole.

In preparation for his fifth shot, the player dropped his ball in close proximity where he played his third shot in apparent conformance with Rule 26a. After being prompted by a television viewer, the Rules Committee reviewed a video of the shot while he was playing the 18th hole. At that moment and based on that evidence, the Committee determined he had complied with the Rules.

After he signed his scorecard, and in a television interview subsequent to the round, the player stated that he played further from the point than where he had played his third shot. Such action would constitute playing from the wrong place.

The subsequent information provided by the player's interview after he had completed play warranted further review and discussion with him this morning. After meeting with the player, it was determined that he had violated Rule 26, and he was assessed a two-stroke penalty. The penalty of disqualification was waived by the Committee under Rule 33 as the Committee had previously reviewed the information and made its initial determination prior to the finish of the player's round.

Evidently the matter would have been settled if Tiger had kept his mouth shut.... BAN all reporters from the course. Would the Golf Channel have a problem with that ???

[MarkO]

As I gather, when Tiger signed the scorecard, it was, in fact, the correct score. If the rules committee blessed it at the time, it would be grossly unfair to disqualify him for a scorecard infraction. He should take the penalty as it would have been assessed at the time. And, that penalty was deserved.

There is a great deal of Tiger hate out there. I hope he never wins another major, but the level of animosity from players and others is extreme. Every time he plays he makes the others a great deal of money.

[MarkO]

Kobe has been everything LBJ hopes to be one day. His coach did not protect him. I hope that clown is shown the door immediately. Unfortunately, the idiot child running the show worries more about being upstaged by Phil Jackson than about winning.

[matt]

I watched Kobe go down last night and got sick. He has the strongest work ethic I have ever seen and his drive is amazing. 47 points the other night. And with the playoff situation there was doubt in his mind or anyone else's that he would play. He is a warrior.

Chauncey Billups had what looks to be the same injury last season and was out for the season and has kept himself out for most of this season. He is saving everything he has left for the playoffs. I hope and pray Kobe can come back from this. For himself and the sport.

I can say that he is a practicing Catholic who takes his faith seriously.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--I can say that he is a practicing Catholic who takes his faith seriously.--

That's something I didn't know and makes me take his keeping his nose clean a little more seriously than it just being PR.

[Captain Hate]

I severed my achilles tendon playing ball in early 2001; I played earlier this morning. The only thing that changes is that I have to wear a heel insert to keep the repaired tendon from stretching too much and breaking again; other than that everything is normal. It's pretty easy to put back together but the healing takes a long time. Dan Marino severed his and kept playing after recovering. The only athletes that couldn't come back are football linemen and linebackers; the force exerted is just too much to keep it from shredding (when it breaks it's like denim fraying) again.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--The penalty of disqualification was waived by the Committee under Rule 33 as the Committee had previously reviewed the information and made its initial determination prior to the finish of the player's round.--

I find this confusing.
Surely no one is saying he didn't know the rule about improving his position. I don't even golf and I know it.

If the argument is he didn't know he was away from his original spot and therefore didn't know he was in violation, then this statement by him makes it obvious he knew exactly what he was doing at the time when he moved two yards back:

After the round, Woods said: "I went back to where I played it from, but I went 2yards further back and I took, tried to take two yards off the shot of what I felt I hit."

Seems to me he was obliged to tell the officials what he did when they gave him a pass before he signed = DQ.
I'll gladly be corrected if I'm mistaken.

[gmax]

Yeah they yank the tendon back down into place ( it curls up in the calf and usually takes some force to get it stretched back down ) and staple gun it back into place.

Isiah Thomas chose to retire rather than return with the same injury. This one takes almost a year to fully heal, longer than reconstruction of an ACL tear, but plenty of folks have done so. I am unaware of any high profile athlete who has had a second Achilles tear so I think its a bit of a freak injury unlike ACLs of which the list is legion of multiple tears of the same tendon...

[Danube of Thought]

Surely no one is saying he didn't know the rule about improving his position.

I think everyone is saying that. He thought that he was obliged to drop "in close proximity" to the previous location. For reasons I haven't heard fully explained, that was not the applicable rule, which required that he drop "as close as possible" to the previous location.

I think the decision was proper. If Woods had a corrupt intent he would never have made the admission he made in the press conference.

[Stephanie]

He confused the rules options for playing. One option allows a drop in line with the last place the ball crossed the hazard and that drop can be from anywhere behind and in line with that spot. The other is that you have to drop 'as close as possible' to the original spot before retaking the shot from there. He did a little of the first and a little of the last. Penalty for that is the 2 shots. Period.

The brouhaha comes from the fact that he signed for the pass that was decided upon by the rules committee before it was discovered that he conflated the rules. He didn't initially take the penalty.

Under normal circumstances, they would have notified him on a subsequent hole and he would have reviewed it with them in the clubhouse BEFORE signing his scorecard and he would have taken the 2 stroke penalty at that time. However, since the rules committee initially decided they did not need to notify him of any infraction (cause they didn't think there was one), he was not penalized for the signing of the card, but was assessed the penalty as new information came to light after the card had been signed.

What they should go to is to make the signatures provisional signatures if they are going to leave the interpretation of rules open until play resumes and not leave the signature open to when it is final, also. ISTM if the day's contest is deemed finished you should sign, if the day's contest is open to further consideration, the card should not be signed as 'final.'

That way if 10K golfers call in a rule infraction, the penalty can be assessed before play restarts even though the committee and the player didn't notice it before they left the clubhouse for the night.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

Comments being eaten again so I'll just say thanks for the explanations and I am still skeptical.

[Danube of Thought]

My great buddy who shoots two strokes above his weight says the rules people should have discussed the matter with Tiger before issuing its initial determination. I agree. Presumably, had they done so he would undoubtedly have disclosed the same thing he disclosed in his interview.

Our mutual great friend and former partner is the brand-newly-appointed general counsel of the USGA, whose rule it is. We have put him on the spot for an opinion, but haven't heard back. Stay tuned.

[Captain Hate]

I think everyone is saying that

I'm not.

[Danube of Thought]

I'm not.

Tell us why, if he knew the rule, he confessed on national TV to violating it.

[narciso]

Well clearly if he violated the rule, he should step down, A more interesting detail how the likes of 'kobe get off, following a lead from Mazzetti's latest, re a CIA officer who had been burned by the Argentines and subsequentkly had ended up in the drone management division, subsequently was part of DSK's public relations team.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--He did a little of the first and a little of the last.--

What is the evidence he innocently confused the two options? He's not a student of the game?
Is there something in his character which suggests he should be given the benefit of the doubt?
What he admitted in his press conference could be viewed either as an exculpatory admission of inadvertent violation or an attempt to make appear inadvertent that which was intentional.

In either event it's guys hitting a little white ball with a stick so I think I'll go do something really important like buy a gun. :)

[Danube of Thought]

What he admitted in his press conference could be viewed either as an exculpatory admission of inadvertent violation or an attempt to make appear inadvertent that which was intentional.

Except that if it was intentional he would have kept his mouth shut about it.

[narciso]

The brainslugs are passed along liberally over there'

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/12/erin-burnett-donna-brazile-fret-over-right-wing-medias-absence-of-gosnell-coverage/

[Danube of Thought]

Is there something in his character which suggests he should be given the benefit of the doubt?

Is that a proper inquiry for a golf rules committee?

[AliceH]

--do something really important like buy a gun.--

::sigh:: my ammo budget ate my gun budget.

[narciso]

Illuztrating absurdity by being absurd;

http://nakeddc.com/2013/04/12/inspired-by-jay-z-jake-tapper-and-dana-perino-try-to-rap/

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--Is that a proper inquiry for a golf rules committee?--

I'm pretty sure none of the people involved in this discussion here are on such a committee.

--Except that if it was intentional he would have kept his mouth shut about it.--

He was asked a question about it by the press was he not? What's he gonna say, "no comment?"
If he knew he had violated the rules intentionally and signed his scorecard he knows that's a DQ and so he says he thought he was in compliance with the rules and it was all inadvertent and since they're asking him about it obviously there is some controversy.
He can hardy say something at odds with the replay so he makes it look like an innocent mistake.

Maybe he did nothing wrong, but it would hardly surprise me that he did, anymore than it would surprise me that we find out eventually he's juiced.

[Captain Hate]

Tell us why, if he knew the rule, he confessed on national TV to violating it.

He got caught and had no place to hide.

[Cecil Turner]

. . . but coaches and trainers are supposed to make these tough calls.

Bottom line is that Kobe Bryant (or any other star making a similar proportion of any team's payroll) effectively makes those calls himself.

He was asked a question about it by the press was he not? What's he gonna say, "no comment?"

If he were dissembling, he should've said "I dropped it in close proximity" or some such. In admitting he placed it back a couple of yards, he effectively admitted applying the wrong rule (and the logical interpretation is that he confused the two . . . likely impacted by exasperation from the previous flukish shot).

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--If he were dissembling, he should've said "I dropped it in close proximity" or some such.--

As I said, he's hardly going to claim something the replay will not show since he knows it's already a controversy.
He aint dumb.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

It is apparently impossible for me to post a link in the text of my comment in any form. I never get a captcha if I try so I guess I'll go check on my gun auction.

In the mean time, the link I was trying to post is at Hotair and concerns the environmental pinkos attempts to extort money from Chevron in Ecuador.
Not only did they have to settle with Chevron they admitted their story was a crock of s*** from stem to stern.

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

Here's my understanding of the Woods brouhaha:

The rules provide for a 2 stroke penalty, not a DQ, for a drop which violates the drop rule. The rules provide for a DQ if the golfer signs his card with an erroneous score.

The rules committee reviewed the drop and, without discussing it with Woods, found it did not violate the rules. When Woods signed his scorecard his score was accurate according to the rules committee's finding while the round was in play. On subsequent review, occasioned by Wood's post round press conference after he signed his card, the committee determined that it had been mistaken in its finding during the round, and assessed the 2 stroke penalty.

The question is whether Woods violated the rule against signing an erroneous card and should thus be DQ'd. Holding no brief for Woods, ISTM the committee's ruling that he should not be DQ'd is reasonable under the above circumstances. Had the committee discussed the matter in any way with Woods before he signed his card, and he failed to assess himself the 2 stroke penalty, he should be disqualified.

[Cecil Turner]

As I said, he's hardly going to claim something the replay will not show since he knows it's already a controversy.

The officials had already watched the replay and ruled it righteous based on the proximity :

In preparation for his fifth shot, the player dropped his ball in close proximity to where he had played his third shot in conformance with Rule 26. After being prompted by a television viewer, the Rules Committee reviewed a video of the shot while he was playing the 18th hole. At that moment and based on that evidence, the Committee determined he had complied with the Rules.

The only reason they revisited it was that he admitted misapplying the rule, which makes no sense at all as an alibi.

[MarkO]

If Tiger had added two shots to his score last night and signed the card, he would have violated the rules and been DQ'ed for signing an incorrect score card. Until the penalty was assessed, the card he signed was correct.

[Captain Hate]

It's funny that no matter who wins the Masters, the topic of the conversation is Tiger.

[Cecil Turner]

Well, I'd generally find watching golf or grass growing about a wash. The thing that made this one more interesting than usual was the penalties. And up until Tiger's faux pas, it was the Chinese wunderkind's stroke penalty for slow play. Don't see that sort of thing very often.

[glasater]

When I was playing a lot of golf every opening season our golf pro would go over rules changes. And those rules change considerably throughout the years. One almost has to be an attorney sometimes to figure them all out.
ISTM Tiger was thinking the out of bounds rule when he made his drop.
And then there's match play rules...

[Jim Eagle]

And the fact that he knew he had misapplied the rule then he not only played from a wrong place (rule 20.7) but in my opinion and should have been of the committee he also committed a "serious breach" in doing so.

How do I know? Because Tiger says so, that's how. Look at CT's comment: "The only reason they revisited it was that he admitted misapplying the rule, which makes no sense at all as an alibi."

Note 1 of rule 20.7: "A competitor has deemed to have committed a serious breach of the applicable rule if the Committee considers he has gained a significant advantage as a result of playing from the wrong place."

Which is what he admitted to. The first time he played his wedge from the correct place the ball flew longer than he wanted and hit the flag stick careening into the creek. Knowing that Tiger decided to give himself some leeway and back up 2 yards from the original spot (option 3 of legal drops) so as to land the ball short of the flag this time with an uphill putt. And he did that and eventually made bogey.

This was willful and premeditated not ignorance. Now the Committee thanks to a rule change (addition) in 2012 gave themselves and CBS a way out of saving their star product. This would be rule 33.7. However, I believe (as a Florida State Golf Assn. rules official and committeeman) that was misapplied. I am no Fred Ridley who is an exceptional golf rules architect and official from his USGA days but I have to beieve the only reason Tiger rather than any other individual on planet earth is his commercial drawing power.

Tiger is the one who will have to live with this infraction of personal integrity as well as the rules of golf. Very sad day for golf but a great day for all these spoiled professionals that now have a precedent of keeping them from DQ's in the future.

[Jim Eagle]

Need to clear something up for all here. The score card had nothing to do with the penalty or whether he should have been DQ'd. If rule 33.7 had not been added by the USGA in 2012 then the Master's Rules Committee would have had no choice but to DQ Tiger under a serious breach of rule 20.7 (Playing a stroke from a wrong place). See my post above regarding Note 1. of rule 20.7.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--The first time he played his wedge from the correct place the ball flew longer than he wanted and hit the flag stick careening into the creek. Knowing that Tiger decided to give himself some leeway and back up 2 yards from the original spot (option 3 of legal drops) so as to land the ball short of the flag this time with an uphill putt. And he did that and eventually made bogey.

This was willful and premeditated not ignorance.--

That was exactly my point when I quoted what he said; he knew exactly what he was doing when he improved his position.
The idea he is some greenhorn who can't keep up with those pesky rules seems a little naive.
And my apologies JiB, after I commented I thought that you probably are on some committee.

In any event enough for me about the little twerp.
And I mean it this time. :)

[Beasts of England]

Well, Hell! Glad I didn't grab my Rules of Golf out of my bag this morning - it's been covered by the JOM brain-trust!

Roberto De Vincenzo could not be reached for comment...

[Janet]

Here's a link to Ignatz's 1:04 post.

I remember watching a video of the activists plotting in some cafe. It was unbelievable. I wish I had written down the names of the people in the video.

[Jim Eagle]

BoE,

Not even close to De Vincenzo. Had nothing to do with the scorecard he signed.

He should be DQ because of a serious breach of Rule 20.7 and for no other reason. He cheated on his wife and family. He can now add golf to that category of personal infidelity.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

"He got caught and had no place to hide."

He didn't get caught. He was cleared until he himself volunteered that he had dropped the ball a couple of yards back from the original spot. No one asked him whether he had done so.

I hate the guy as much as anyone does. I hope he loses, and that he never catches Nicklaus. But that doesn't mean the rules were not appropriately applied by all concerned as the facts became known to them.

[Danube of Thought on iPad]

"he knew exactly what he was doing when he improved his position."

Of course he did. He didn't know that doing so violated any rule. He--and apparently lots of other golf professionals--thought that the applicable rule was the one that would have allowed him to drop anywhere along the line from where the ball entered the hazard, provided only that he dropped no closer to the hole.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--He didn't know that doing so violated any rule.--

You take him at his word or consider his later admission evidence we should.
I don't.
And now, I give anyone permission to DQ me if I say another word about this episode.

Come on gunbroker, let's get that auction over!

[Jim Eagle]

DoT,

Sorry but I was wrong about the stakes. They are red but that doesn't change the rule for dropping. You have a number of options and he tested all of those but chose to drop under rule 27.1 stroke and distance and that means nearest to the where the original shot was played. The rest is of my post is correct as to the rules regardless of whether the hazard is yellow or red, it makes no difference except if yellow he has to drop behind the hazard.

[Ralph L]

I can say that he is a practicing Catholic who takes his faith seriously.
Does this mean he's no longer bending over hotel bell girls?

The first day of golf class at Army Navy CC, they sent us home with rule books and told us to copy them by hand verbatim. If I'd been a vulgar teenager instead of an innocent 11 year old, my response would have been "fuck that".

Took another set of lessons a couple years later and still couldn't get the ball off the ground consistently, and didn't try again. When to a driving range at the beach in my 20's and the ball actually went somewhere.

[maryrose]

I feel bad for Kobe. Even on his thread he is trumped by Tiger.
Woods has been playing a long time. Readjusting your shot so it doesn't ding the pole comes as second nature to him. Take the penalty and move on. Someone new will probably win again.

[Jim Eagle]

How about that. Another post lost.

DoT, what I posted was that Tiger had already tested his option under rule 26.1 (b) and decided it wasn't practical because of overhanging branches. He was only left with dropping under rule 27.1 stroke and distance nearest to where the original shot was played. He knows rule 26, 27, 25 and 20 because pros are confronted with it every tournament played.

You're probably thinking that the spot the ball went in was on the same vector as his original shot but it wasn't, it was at least 30 to 45 degrees to the left of that vector.

[RichatGMU]

Iggy is DQed. I'll also dq myself from this conversation.

[Jim Eagle]

Test. Anyone else having posts rejected here?

[daddy]

Happy Saturday Morning!

Just for interest (as we wait for Tee Time), here is a short article from The Times of India explaining why the author believes that Lord Khrisna and Jesus are the same being:

Similarities and differences between Krishna and Jesus

I have concluded that Krishna and Jesus both are the same, born in two different ages with a common purpose. Their purpose was to triumph over the forces of evil. Krishna triumphed over evil Kauravas and Jesus had conquered over the man's sinful tendency by giving him a new nature.

As usual, you be the judge.

[Jim Eagle]

BTW, since I am still optimistic about my acceptance to an Augusta membership I will from now on refer to all this as being "fair to Tiger". Is there no integrity in this game anymore or is it all about the money?

No shouting, please.

[Beasts of England]

JiB, I'm assuming you've played The National?

[Jim Eagle]

CH,

Nantz is asking tough questions of Ridley while still be mannerly enough to keep the CBS franchise. Kudos to Jim. I think he even knows this was a wrong decision and only a commercial one.

[Captain Hate]

He didn't get caught. He was cleared until he himself volunteered that he had dropped the ball a couple of yards back from the original spot. No one asked him whether he had done so.

You're assuming he didn't know that people had been calling in to the committee to point out exactly what he had done and why it was a violation. He isn't the first person this has happened to and won't be the last. Craig Stadler was DQ'd at a tour event at Torrey by someone calling an infraction in and until the tour says it won't take incoming calls on infractions it won't change. I'm sure Tiger or one of his people got a heads up that things were looking dicey.

I'm not sure why you're willing to vouch for the integrity of somebody you know is a lowlife who happens to be good at golf.

[Captain Hate]

Kudos to Nantz, JiB; I'll give him props when he deserves them.

[Jim Eagle]

BoE,

Played it? I started caddying there when I was 13. Shot my lowest round there when 17 - a brilliant 70 with only 25 putts. Played it last year with the Manning family in front of us. Those boys can hit a long, long ball. Believe me.

[Captain Hate]

Btw DoT, I'm not arguing that the committee didn't apply the rules correctly. Imo they did the right thing. I think Tiger should've withdrawn out of respect for the game.

[Jim Eagle]

BoE,

Can't seem to correct my 312 post. I mean National in Southamton. Played Augusta 2 times 6 rounds.

[daddy]

The other day RSE asked a question about the Chinese hating Americans.

From what I've seen of the 14 year old Chinese golfer, he has handled himself beautifully, and I have nothing but praise for his guts under pressure in sinking that mandatory putt on the 18th to make the cut. I would love to be in China today to get a sense of what the average Chinese guy thinks about this. My guess, is that even tho' they are not yet a Golf Nation, probably 1 Billion Chinese people woke up this morning that hate us today who did not hate us yesterday.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

The cool thing about that Chinese kid is they asked him who he'd like to play a practice round with and he answered "Tom Watson".
How many American kids would say that?

[Jim Eagle]

Iggy,

Mine.

But seriously who would even say Jack Nicklaus?

[Beasts of England]

Can't seem to correct my 312 post. I mean National in Southamton. Played Augusta 2 times 6 rounds.

Posted by: Jack is Back | April 13, 2013 at 03:17 PM

Wasn't gonna call you out, but 25 putts at ANGC would be in the record book; don't remember them having 13 year old caddies; and don't remember any of the Mannings as members.

Similarly, I've played behind Cooper and his brothers - although at The Honors Course. A fine track if you've not had the opportunity...

[glasater]

The idea he is some greenhorn who can't keep up with those pesky rules seems a little naive.

Ignatz...
You've admitted you don't play golf so why make a snide comment like that?
Used to play competitively so I'm hardly naive and during that time tried to give fellow players the benefit of the doubt so that's the territory I'm coming from.
You're evidently are not that generous of a person - especially one who has an opinion on every blinking subject under the sun.

[Jim Eagle]

BoE,

Also not the right tint to be a caddie at National.

Great story: Met a guy in England who said he was a member of Augusta and would I like to play a round? Of course, but he was a joker and it turned out to be Augusta Country Club next door:)

[matt]

Sally Quinn goes all in on gay marriage in today's WaPoo. LUN

These people really are credentialed morons.

As a former caddy when young, it was a nice walk in the park and good exercise, especially if I was lucky enough to get two bags. Some of the golfers would ask my opinion, which was a complete hoot.The game went to hell when ties and plus fours went out of style.

What I could see as fun is some of the links courses laid out like those in the UK and Ireland. Wearing tweed and chasing after balls blown all to hell and back by the wind sounds lovely. Then you have every excuse in the world. "A wee bit 'o breeze or the tinkers or tha little people got it". Yeah, that's it....I could been a contender....

[Beasts of England]

Love it, JiB!

About every other one of my comments is posting, so we'll see.

I just called a friend - a PGA tour winner from Huntsville not named Stweart Cink - and he said Woods should have been DQ'd.

Is that an argument to authority? lol

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--Ignatz...
You've admitted you don't play golf so why make a snide comment like that?--

Because he has earned a great deal of distrust not only through his serial cheating off the course but his self absorbed, foul mouthed, win-at-any-cost on.

You also didn't read my whole comment apparently. I said I didn't play golf but still had a pretty good idea what the rule is.
If I know the rule well enough to know he's got a problem how does Tiger not, especially since as JiB points out, PGA guys are presented with this problem frequently?
I have a disk which does not abide repeated twisting, but I have followed golf for many years.

--You're evidently are not that generous of a person - especially one who has an opinion on every blinking subject under the sun.--

What can I say? I have broad interests. Guess I'll have to expand them to include generosity. I'll be grateful for any helpful pointers you can direct me to now and again to up my game to your level.

Do you believe he is a greenhorn who can't keep up with pesky rules?
If not, and I assume you don't, then why did you take my comment personally since it wasn't directed at you. I don't even remember reading a comment by you in this thread previously.

[Captain Hate]

Oh for God's sake, Eldrick doesn't even have to know the rules when he has a caddy *and* access to rules officials on the course in case he needs a ruling about a given situation.

[Stephanie]

Don't forget that unlike I believe all of the other majors, the Masters doesn't have a rules person with each group. Hell, even the HS state championship tourneys here have a rules official on every other hole for a quick response. Everyone was already on the clock for speeding up quick play (and Tuan playing in front of Tiger got penalized) and now those same folks are griping that Tiger didn't hold up play to get a rules interpretation of a rule that has multiple variations and that would have held up play an additional who knows how many minutes. And the committee has admitted that they looked at it before the score was signed for and didn't rule it out til after being asked to take another look.

Next thing you know, you will need permission from your personal rules official that all is ok prior to every shot.

I've seen that exact situation come up and a call to the clubhouse and the PGA pro got an incorrect answer from him in his role as 'rules official' of a tournament. Under that situation they decided to have the kid replay the shot from the correct location (and finish the hole) with penalty as if the incorrect answer wasn't given fix the scorecard and tally the tournament.

Either don't take the calls or have the scorecards 'provisionally' signed until play resumes the next morning then list them as final once first tee is off. Of course, that doesn't address a problem in last round...

Everyone has a Homer Simpson (D-oh) moment and Tiger and that PGA pro I mentioned had theirs. Moving back an additional 2 yards to improve your lie would have been a-ok had the ball hazarded between his shot and the pin, so the notion that he purposely subverted the rules strikes me as an arbitrary and unfair characterization. OK to improve the lie from the hazard crossing point, not ok from the original point of the foul is a bit arcane and easily confused.

That they didn't put this to bed before he signed and they knew it was a potential issue is the error IMO. It might have caused T to have a V-8 and realize his problem before signing.

Prior bad acts off the course not withstanding.

[Jim Eagle]

maryrose,

If Tiger had not admitted he took "advantage" (a word actually used in the rulig Note 1), then this would be a non topic. But the fact that he admited that in so many words is what is troubling.

I am a big Tiger fan in his golf not his marital duties. But I am now in the the other camp. True golfers do not cheat. He did.

Even when I play by myself I call penalties. Why? Because I want to know exactly where I fit in the world of my club's golf. Those who don't are usually annialiated in the first round of a club championship.

[glasater]

I don't even remember reading a comment by you in this thread previously.

Thanks for the further put down, Ignatz. Whataguy...

[Stephanie]

True, but JIB even on an OOB there are rules specifying where you have to drop, how many lengths and no closer to the hole, regardless of whether that leaves you no alternative but overhanging trees no advantage there but...

he could have taken relief on the drop between him and the hazard from the next county and been OK under the golf rules had he chosen that option if there were overhanging trees in what you and I might consider a decent drop distance. My point is that sometimes the rules DO allow for an advantage to be exploited, sometimes not. That he thought in this instance he could does not condemn him as a cheat. Some rules do allow the player discretion as to how far back to drop. Ricky a few weeks ago for one. He moved back to take the drop to an area that he had an advantage over taking the drop in a still legal yet closer to the hole point simply because he is more comfortable at that distance. Unfair advantage? You bet. Legal? Yep.

[glasater]

Some rules do allow the player discretion as to how far back to drop.

He could have gone back to the tee if he wanted to.

[Ignatz Ratzkywatzky]

--I don't even remember reading a comment by you in this thread previously.

Thanks for the further put down, Ignatz. Whataguy...

Posted by: glasater | April 13, 2013 at 04:23 PM--

What the hell is your problem?

I point out my comment wasn't directed at you because I hadn't even seen a comment you made and that apparently is even worse than if I had.

Do you read every thread to make sure you've fully absorbed every single comment by every single person who ever posts here? I sometimes skim them and miss what someone might have said here and there. Kinda wishing I'd missed this whole thread at the moment.

Here's a suggestion; if I'm such a creep, utilize your narcisolator or SOB function and give me the miss in toto.
I won't have to figure out why you have a bee in your bonnet for no particular reason and you won't have to have your sensibilities offended. It's a win-win.

[matt]

If anyone is interested 4th Brigade, 101st Airborne Division is headed back to Afghanistan. It will probably be one of the last units out of there.

This is where it's going to get dangerous. The Taliban will be taking their best shots to show how tough they are and how they forced the hated infidels out.

Keep them in your thoughts and prayers, if you would.

[daddy]

OT

Is anyone following what's going on at the RNC Convention in Hollywood?

I ask because of a report in a local blog about Reince Priebus being involved in something that happened there on Friday:

There was a morning meeting involving Ralph Seekins, the Alaska committeeman to the RNC from Fairbanks; Debbie Brown, the recently deposed chair of the party; Peter Goldberg, Brown's newly appointed replacement, and the legal counsel for the RNC.

The latter determined that because of the confusion over who is legally in charge of Alaska Republicans at the moment, neither Goldberg nor Brown would be allowed to take the seat of the Alaska chairman at the general meeting.

There the agreement on what happened begins to fall apart.

"As the calling of the roll was about to begin, a member of the body of the RNC rose to ask for an explanation as to why the chair from Alaska was not seated. Reince Priebus, chairman of the RNC, was explaining that Mrs. Brown had been relieved of her position when Mrs. Brown rose from her seat, and without being recognized said that she objected. Chairman Priebus had to state more than once that she had been relieved by the Alaska State Executive Committee from her position. While Chairman Priebus was speaking, Mrs. Brown continued to voice objection."

"There was not an altercation, exactly," she said when reached by cell phone. She said she merely got up and stated her opinion because "I've been doing a lot of networking and there are people across the country not happy" about what has happened in Alaska.

I keep wondering when and if our local Republican Coup d'etat will hit the National News.

[Jim Eagle]

Sorry Stephanie but no, the rules do not allow for you to take advantage of rule 26 and 27.1. Go read them. He was wrong period. Read the rule. He accepted the 27.1 option. Go read it and tell me he was right.

[Jim Eagle]

glaster and all,

You are all wrong about the rule. He cannot go all the way back to the tee. Only if he kept the spot where the ball entered the hazard and the pin between his next shot. That was an option he refused to accept. As a result he accepted the option under rule 27.1 stoke and distance. Go read it. He screwed up intentionally to give himself an advantage. Simple.

[hit and run]

I find myself in full agreement with JiB.

Oh and on this from JiB:
"Tom Watson".
How many American kids would say that?

I most certainly would. I'm not a kid anymore, but I sure act like one a lot. Watson was always my favorite player growing up.

[glasater]

Ignatz-

I've taken to watch commodities a little more closely because my better half trades in wheat some and via that our scrape with the MF Global mess.

A few months back on a 'money' thread I made a little comment on lumber prices going up significantly (it was being commented on CNBC) and asking if you were going to celebrate.

Your explained your lumber situation fine. But then you jumped to the conclusion that any celebration must include alcohol by announcing you didn't drink but that I could go ahead - as if the only way I enjoy the small victories of life is with booze.
What a wrong assumption.

So that's the bee in my bonnet and I will SOB if and when I'm able to read and for the most part enjoy JOM.

[narciso]

Well it's Merdred, daddy, but it nonetheless seems plausible from your corner of Westeros,

[Jim Eagle]

hit,

I said Jack Nicklaus. How many kids would say that or even know who he is?

[daddy]

test

[narciso]

The Daily News doesn't mention that, but it does showcase a fuel cell car from the UAE

[Stephanie]

I realize and know the rules and which he played and why. Simply choosing one option over another is an advantage. Some rules allow for a choice others don't. Those rules that allow have a built in advantage OF choice. To condemn him for attempting to take advantage of the advantage allowed seems inappropriate. Otherwise, why not eliminate all options on all drops and mandate one or two club lengths from the point where it crossed the hazard period and no choice as to which options might be the better play. Why was Ricky allowed to drop more than 2 club lengths from the hazard if not to take advantage of a potential better lie or distance of the shot.

My point was that the rules allow for advantage to be taken in certain circumstances (Ricky) but not others (out of bounds) so there is already an unfair advantage to some fouls but not others.

[Captain Hate]

I read something on another board that makes sense to me: Tiger was so caught up in how he would make a 6 on the hole that he reflexively backed up and did a drop without thinking of what he was supposed to do. The only flaw with that is why his caddy didn't say something but I don't know what the give and take between them is like.

JiB, I feel sorry for people that didn't get a chance to see the Golden Bear in his prime. And get to see the makeover he did on his image because early on he almost looked like as big a load as John Daly.

[glasater]

It's been interesting reading rules 20 and 27, JIB. Thanks for the trip down memory lane:)

[Jim Eagle]

Stephanie,

No. You do not undersand trhe rule of golf. They are open for interpretation. We call those the Decisions of Golf. You can order a copy if you want from the USGA.

You are citing two different situations. Read the rulle for 27.1 which Tiger elecrted to play. Don't go to any other rule. Not even relevant.

[matt]

is this one of those angels on the head of a pin obscurantist discussions? Will this be discussed at 19th holes across the country in future? Will blood be spilled? Is Tiger's rep even more in tatters? Will he commit ritual seppuku using a 1 iron?

I was much more concerned when some Eurogolfer discussed how silly the term "double eagle" is. Over there they call it an albatross. Of course until the past 20 years or so those Continentals were somewhat like Darwin's finches on the golf Galapagos.Isolated and funny looking.