Person Of (Limited) Interest

The NY Post shames itself and misunderestimates the power of the internet. Apparently they are reporting today about two men who were identified and dismissed by internet sleuths yesterday. Max Road at Gawker denounces the Post with appropriate vigor but overthinks this a bit:

It took Redditors a few hours to find that Facebook page; it took me about ten minutes in the wake of their work. If you have even a little faith in the FBI, it's difficult to imagine that its investigators didn't figure out who this kid is, and how unlikely he is as a suspect, yesterday—especially after he went to authorities to clear his name.

Which means there are two possibilities: one, the Post newsroom couldn't even be bothered to do the bare minimum of follow-up reporting—that after reporters had spoken to their sources, who gave them at best outdated information, they didn't (or didn't know how to) spend the ten minutes it would have taken to learn that the person in the photos had been identified already—by message board posters!—as a person who did not plant a bomb at the Boston Marathon.

Or, two, that the the Post did the followup reporting—that its reporters found out that the kid had been identified online, that he'd contacted authorities, that he's just some poor teenager who posts "SWAG" image macros on his Facebook page—but is institutionally so committed to identifying an Arab, any Arab, as a terrorist, that it still splashed his photo on the front page and insinuated his suspect-hood.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. I think it would be pretty easy for an old-school reporter to underestimate the power of the net.

UPDATE: The FBI releases photos and video of Suspect 1 and Suspect 2:

Hoping the public will provide crucial clues, the FBI today released video and photos of two men who are suspected in Monday’s deadly Boston Marathon terror bombings.

“Somebody out there knows these individuals as friends, neighbors, co-workers, or family members,” said Richard DesLauriers, special agent in charge of the Boston FBI office. “Though it may be difficult, the nation is counting on those with information to come forward and provide it to us.”

He said the two men — shown strolling down a sidewalk behind marathon spectators and mingling in the crowd — are considered “extremely armed and dangerous.”

DesLauriers described the two men as Suspect No. 1 and Suspect No. 2. Suspect No. 1 was wearing a dark hat. Suspect No. 2 was wearing a white hat.

DesLauriers said Suspect No. 2 was observed planting a bomb, leaving it in place shortly before it went off.

“Within minutes,” he said at a news conference at a Boston hotel.

As someone noted, the finsih line of the Boston marathon was probably the most photographed/videoed place in America on Monday (barring any travel by Kim or Lindsay, natch.) Yet Genius Suspect 2 is sauntering along with his baseball cap turned backwards to minimize the disguise value.

Comments

[sailor]

Well, I don't know. I am continuing to read conflicting reports at various sites on the internet. One report says pictures of the persons of interest are being distributed, and yet, another will say the pictures are not what they seem to be. Whom to believe?

[Cecil Turner]

Well, I missed it too. But then, I have no editor.

Does this mean the FBI is circulating two other photos (as they were supposedly last night)? Or that they have something else? Or perhaps they have bupkus.

[sailor]

CT, At this point--who knows?

[NK]

I'm with TomM on this, it appears that Gawker has this right and the NYP got it's early morning report wrong. TBD. 70hrs out from the bombing... I just have a bad feeling about the state of the investigation. Hopefully, the FBI has its stuff together and there will be an arrest soon.

[narciso]

I don'r know, seeing how readily many of the other outlests seem insistant on dismissing young Mr. Al Harbi, who seems to have been up to something,

[JeffC]

I'm sure nobody on Gawker has tried to imply "right wing extremists" are responsible ... everyone has an axe to grind ... they just don't like the Posts axe ...

[Rick Ballard]

Patience, NK. The manufacture/suppression of evidence takes time. Grillzntats didn't become St. Trayvon overnight.

[maryrose]

NK;
I fear you are correct and that they really don't have any one suspect at this point.I am also concerned about the explosion in Texas.

[sailor]

Well, narciso, Mr. Al Harbi has been dismissed. He is, supposedly, on his way home!

[']

Remember the good old days when FDR, played Cowboy!??

ROUND EM UP!!!

Good times, good times.

[NK]

Waco? fertilizer plants explode sometimes.

I'm more interested in the House of Saud visiting the WH yesterday and the Saudi kid heading back to Medina ASAP, why?

[Dave (in MA)]

Big Sis is saying "we need the public’s help in locating these individuals" in the video, which they haven't released to the public.

[sailor]

Well, maryrose, an "unidenified government source" has said that the Texas explosion was worrisome and had some earmarks of domestic terrorism ie explosion caused by angry white man.

[']

Sailor, as soon as I saw the WACO report, as it happened, I realized that the FEDERAL OBAMA GOVT would make it political and boot their BOOT on someones neck.
On a lighter note,...How about Space Commander Alan Colmes new dye job!!!

[DrJ]

Waco? fertilizer plants explode sometimes.

It really isn't a fertilizer plant. It is a distribution center, and anhydrous ammonia is a common fertilizer. Basically this was a mix-and-sell location and no more.

Anhydrous ammonia is nasty, but it can be stored easily in pressure vessels. The primary concern would be leaks from transfer hoses or pressure-relief valves if the tank got too hot. Why this one blew up is not clear at all to me.

[NK]

Amazing what can be learned at JOM--mix and sell center-- who knew?

[Dave (in MA)]

I thought it blew up as a result of a fire.

[DrJ]

NK, there was a brief article in the WSJ on this today. I looked because it makes no sense to have a plant in West, TX. Ammonia is made from nitrogen (from air) and natural gas on enormous scales using the Haber-Bosch process.

So it would make sense to have these in the Gulf coast, but not in a small farming community. (I suppose they could be on a natural gas line.) But a distribution center in a farming area is much more reasonable, and that turned out to be so.

[Cecil Turner]

I thought it blew up as a result of a fire.

Well, the NY Post story said it was suspicious. And they never get anything wrong, right?

[Frau Vorwärts]

Give the Boston bombing a few days and maybe a week and we can hear someone quote John F'ing on Benghazi:

...And let's find out exactly, together, what happened, because we need -- we got a lot more important things to move on to and get done.

[Threadkiller]

Holder getting carved up on cspan 3.

[cathyf]

I'm confused... I see news stories that say that the FBI has some video and pictures that they are combing through for clues, and that they are looking for pictures/videos that the public has that might show the same thing from better angles and/or better resolution.

But then they are not specific about what it is that they want. Hey, dudes -- can you tell us exactly what places and times you are most interested in?

[Gus]

Frau, that was my thought exactly. It gets scarier and scarier. You'd think that John Kerry would want ANSWERS. It's his State Department now. But NOPE, good old LIBTARD DRONE. Obama wants the issue gone. Horseface does Obama's bidding.

[matt]

We have a confluence of the Boston bombing, a ricin attack, and the Texas explosion in 1 week.

That the FBI is asking for the public's help and not releasing anything is a bit absurd.

Some strange facts floating out there.

[Jack is Back!]

Dr.J is correct.

Anhydrous Ammonia is normally kept in high pressure tanks even at farm distribution centers which this was since they interviewed a local farmer who went there to get his fertilizer. So out in the distribution area you have a small fire starts in late night but spreads and finally heats up those tanks - we all saw the video of it spreading and buring hard.

Once those tanks of compressed NH3 hit their vaporization point -BOOM.

Sure it could be terror but nothing to indicate that - yet. Always comes in three's right? Have to weight.

[NK]

cathyf-- all very true. The lack of clarity from the Feds in Boston is... troubling. There are leakers, OK there always are leakers, but here the leaks promise suspect info, and that has not been forthcomong for over 24 hours. Yet the Feds officially continue to ask for the public's help. Just doesn't feel right. Hopefully, once Obummer clears out of Boston this afternoon, the pros can do what they want.

[Jack is Back!]

weight = wait. Spell check. Grrrrrr.

[Old Lurker]

So when ARE they going to release the pictures of the suspects? Huh?

[NK]

OL-- Nuthin' new on Boston.com (except we love Obummer and he loves us.)

[NK]

PS: OL-- Janet the D&*%e Napolitano testified today that they--whoever they are-- are not exactly suspects.

[Gus]

The lack of information coming out of Boston is really par for the course under Obama. All news is manipulated and screened by Obama's peeps. If one iota of information thus found, puts a PROTECTED group in a bad light it is squelched. If this was a one off white dude, you'd have his picture texted to you by GOVERNMENT TEXTERS.

[Frau Vorwärts]

Gus, I hope you remembered that Billy the Bomber *did* plan to kill people with his pipe bombs for revolution. He planned to bomb a military dance event. Of course, cowardly Billy would never do the dirty work himself and thus ended his romance with the lady with the green eyes.

I was hoping someone would approach the traitorous sleeze for comments about the Boston bombings.

[DrJ]

Once those tanks of compressed NH3 hit their vaporization point -BOOM.

Presumably the fire heated the tank contents, which raised its pressure. If it reached the tank's pressure rating (minus safety margin) a pressure-relief valve should have vented the gas until the pressure returned to normal levels.

Now the ammonia would have to exceed its lower explosive limit and had an ignition source. The latter presumably was the fire, but I don't know how much ammonia was released, the winds, and any release suppression equipment that may have been present.

Once it exploded, presumably the tank failed and provided more ammonia for the blast. that's the best I can do with the available information.

[Old Lurker]

I thought it odd that they circulated photos to all the cops yesterday but not the public. Yes I know many sites are showing what they THINK the cops are looking for but until we are shown what the cops have we have to take that with a grain of salt.

I thought Fox and the others were awfully squirley last night when they said "we have seen the pics but do not want to share them with viewers". Why? I don't get it.

[James D.]

You'd think that John Kerry would want ANSWERS. It's his State Department now.

If nothing else, you'd think that State Department employees - especially those who work, or have worked, or have family in potentially dangerous countries - would not just want, but demant answers. Or publicly resign if they're not forthcoming.

It's one thing to know that you work in a dangerous job and location, and that you're a target. But it's something much worse when your boss comes out and says that they don't give a damn about protecting you, and won't bother to investigate it if anything does happen to you.

[Buckeye]

Waiting for Obummer to walk up to the microphone and say "If I had a son, he would look just like the 2 persons of interest".

[Threadkiller]

Obama's son would look like a composite sketch.

[henry]

The NY Post suggests a rail car blew up. They call the initial fire suspicious.

[maryrose]

Buckeye:
Hysterical.
John Kerry is spreading the talking pouints of this administration wrt Benghazi. First it was Rice,then Hillary and now him. They will not answer questions raised by Sheryl attkinson and will stoewall any congress person. We all heard Hil's answer to Senator Johnson and Kerry has just repeated it. The order for this response comes from the top. Obama refuses to accept responsibility for doing nothing and lied about it in front of America in the second debate with Romney.
Bammy was angry yesterday because he thought he cornered the market on being a liar and winning dirty.The failure yesterday was epic. He should have seen it coming and his magical thinking continues. The only reason he is in Boston today is to make it about him and try to get some of his mojo back.He can't. He is andwill continue to be a lame duck ineffective ,lousy president.

[Ignatz]

Perhaps the delay in releasing the images is they're redacting their faces to avoid profiling and other racial improprieties if they're not privileged white guys.

Anyone seeing two men with large black bars across their faces is urged to contact authorities immediately.

[maryrose]

Because he lies all the time he assumes the NRA does too.

[Gus]

Frau, Billy Boom Boom Ayers says his group was about PROPERTY DAMAGE, not human carnage. And he's trustworthy. As for GREENS EYES OUGHTON. I believe she was identified by a chunk of her thumb.
Ayers and Dorhn are Obama's friends.

[Gus]

James, until last July, my S.i.l, my niece and my nephew lived in Amman Jordan for 3 years. My brother was in Amman for 2 years, then Iraq for the next. His family is stateside, but he is in Tunisia. Obama, Rodham and Kerry don't care.

[NK]

Well.. the NYPost was sloppy here, here's the story of the kid in the Blue Track suit... he went 'downtown' to clear himself. BTW, JiB and I both correctly pegged him as Moroccan origin... having ME clients and a Moroccan tennis pro helped me out there: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/runners-fingered-as-bombing-suspects-875362

[sailor]

maryrose, Thankfully I did not watch Obama give his speech in Boston. I do know the speech was really long so, maybe, as you said, he was trying to get his mojo back. I so admire you for being so positive and thinking that people will wake up and see O for what he is and also the people in his government. I somehow doubt that. As long as people continue to get things for free, they will love Obama. Sad to say.

[Threadkiller]

Some dude(R) is asking Holder about Fort Hood.

[Rob Crawford]

Frau, Billy Boom Boom Ayers says his group was about PROPERTY DAMAGE, not human carnage.

Apparently the nails and other additions were intended to stop after tearing through clothing.

[Threadkiller]

His name is Tom Rooney from Florida.

He isn't very eloquent. Good line of questions with a poor delivery.

[Frau Vorwärts]

Billy's band of merry bombers also went after soft targets when they killed a policeman in Frisco.

As for what Billy the Bomber sez, I'll take him at his word only the time he said,

“Guilty as hell, free as a bird—America is a great country."

[Threadkiller]

This is turning ugly! Rep Frank Wolf is going to town on Holder.

Good stuff.

[cathyf]

What do we have picture-wise? I've seen several angles of the bearded Bill-Ayers-like guy wearing the red shirt and blue jacket who is holding the backpack which looks like the twin of the one that's blown up. Everything else is more along the lines of playing "Where's Waldo" and looking for people behaving oddly and for people with heavy-looking backpacks.

Anything I have missed?

[Gus]

Where did you see the pics Cathy.

[NK]

Where are the 'bearded' guy photos posted?

[DrJ]

From a new WSJ article:

The facility, run by West Fertilizer Co., stored and blended anhydrous ammonia that was distributed as fertilizer to local businesses, according to a safety plan filed with the federal government in 2011.

Ammonia is a colorless, pungent gas that's kept in liquid form under high pressure in steel containers.

But because ammonia is relatively stable and can only ignite at a temperature of 1,562 degrees Fahrenheit, such events are said to be rare.

"This is pretty new to us," said Kathy Mathers, spokeswoman for the Fertilizer Institute, or TFI, a U.S. trade association for the fertilizer industry. "It's not something we are familiar with in our business."

When ammonia is heated, it expands. "Traditionally, that's our concern," said Ford West, president of TFI. "That's why tanks [that store ammonia] have safety release valves" that get triggered if the pressure inside rises past a certain point.

It's not clear what occurred at the Texas facility. The Texas Department of Public Safety said it could take up to six months to determine the cause of the fire.

[Jack is Back!]

Tom Rooney is down narciso's way in SoFla. Ex-Army JAG. Good guy. Filled Vern Buchanan's old spot.

[Jack is Back!]

DrJ.

Which poses the question what other chemicals and agents such as granular nitrates were stored there or in the process of mixing? This could easily been a catalytic explosion, right? When we would start up refineries or LNG plants we used to fear hydrogen leaks under pressure near pressurized petroleum processing. Not a damn thing you can do when that happes except hit the deck and pray to God its not your time.

[narciso]

Farther north, I'm deep in crazy town,

[sailor]

Well, cathyf, the two guys whose photos were circled on the internet yesterday have been cleared--they went to the police and were cleared--said they were just there watching the race. Fox News has reported by Rick Leventhal that the FBI is looking for a young white boy who is pictured dropping a bag where the bomb blew up. So, I guess the narrative is going the way O wants.

[Frau Vorwärts]

Weren't those who went to the police to be cleared *white* middle-easterners?

[Jack is Back!]

White? Need to go to Daily Kos to see if I am a suspect then. Ten to one MSNBC leads with that until it is knocked down. I am surprised they haven't added Christian to the description yet.

[Clarice]

I think this is pretty much the end of this make believe administration. A confederacy of Dunces and even the media cannot cover this up much longer.

He'd be advised to yank his signature "achiievement" Obamacare now before people find out that insurance which doesn't exclude pre existing conditions is going to cost most people 80% more than it used to:

20 Comments
Health Actuaries: Obamacare Rates Will Soar
But health law supporters are pushing back, noting close ties between the actuaries making the forecasts and an insurance industry that has been complaining about taxes.

By Jay Hancock, Kaiser Health News Staff Writer
THURSDAY, April 18, 2013 (Kaiser Health News) — Few aspects of the Affordable Care Act are more critical to its success than affordability, but in recent weeks experts have predicted costs for some health plans could soar next year.

Now health law supporters are pushing back, noting close ties between the actuaries making the forecasts and an insurance industry that has been complaining about taxes and other factors it says will lead to rate shock for consumers.

"Most actuaries in this country -- what percentage are employed by insurance companies?" Sen. Al Franken, a Minnesota Democrat, asked an actuary last week at a hearing of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions.

The committee was discussing a study published last month by the Society of Actuaries (SOA) predicting that, thanks to sicker patients joining the coverage pool, medical claims per member will rise 32 percent in the individual plans expected to dominate the ACA exchanges next year. In some states costs will rise as much as 80 percent, the report said.

[Rob Crawford]

"Most actuaries in this country -- what percentage are employed by insurance companies?" Sen. Al Franken, a Minnesota Democrat, asked an actuary last week at a hearing of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions.

I dunno -- what percentage of the Minnesota delegation to the Senate is composed of douchebags? Over 50%, clearly.

[sailor]

Frau, What are "white" middle Easterners? The two were Moroccan.

[NK]

Listen... all Obummer cares about is no AQ connection. If a Jihadi did this, it's very inconvenient for Obummer the hero of the AQ war. If Bill Ayers himself was the bomber, Obummer wouldn't care, as long as it's not AQ.

[pagar]

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169

"
All told, Ayers and the Weather Underground were responsible for 30 bombings aimed at destroying the defense and security infrastructures of the U.S. "I don't regret setting bombs," said Ayers in 2001, "I feel we didn't do enough." Contemplating whether or not he might again use bombs against the U.S. sometime in the future, he wrote: “I can’t imagine entirely dismissing the possibility.”

No one should ever underestimate William Ayers.

[Rob Crawford]

Frau, What are "white" middle Easterners? The two were Moroccan.

They're like "white Hispanics", but from the Orient.

[Jack is Back!]

narciso,

Didn't he take over the old Alan West district that was redrawn? Closer to you than me is what I mean't. Actually, he is closer to Freeport than you or me:)

[James D.]

I finally joined the proud ranks of folks who had a post eaten by TypePad, so I'm trying again...

In response to Frau @ 3:28, I think Ayers was also being honest when he talked about expecting that he'd have to kill 20-25 million people once his movement was in charge.

[maryrose]

Rob Crawford
Rememberthe only reason Al Franken is in the Senate is that over 300 felons were permitted to vote in the election. Norm Coleman's seat was stolen by franken and the dems. Voter fraud and discarded ballots made sure of that. Disgraceful.

[DrJ]

JiB,

Which poses the question what other chemicals and agents such as granular nitrates were stored there or in the process of mixing?

Exactly right. Ammonium nitrate also is used as fertilizer and it makes a wonderful explosive, though it does require something to ignite it. If ammonium nitrate (for example) went off, it might be able to reach the temperatures required to detonate the anhydrous ammonia. Or something else did, but that's darned hot.

One simple test would be to sniff the air. I can assure you that the release of 54,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia would create a foul-smelling irritant cloud that should reach many, many miles away if it did not combust. I've not seen any reports on this.

[James D.]

OT, just wanted to share a bit of book news. Sales are slow (flatline, really, at the moment, but hopefully it'll pick up - marketing is hard!), but there will be an audio version of at least the first book - I've just gotten an agreement with a narrator to record it. I'm very excited about the whole idea - she sounds fantastic, and maybe it'll bring more buyers...

[narciso]

No West's was Shaw's old district, lost to Frankel, oh frabjous joy, by Hasner,

[cathyf]

The pictures are at InfoWars. The surrounding commentary is a bit conspiratorial and sometimes childish, but the pictures are there. I wonder if I can get it to post with a link in it?

http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/

[Jack is Back!]

cathyf,

Those are different white guys that's for sure.

[Jane - Mock the Media!]

The FBI is going to show a tape of the suspects at 5:00 PM. And they called them "suspects" not "persons of interest".

[NK]

Thanks Jane

[Ignatz]

All I know is if it was a white guy who set them off from here on out I'm voting only for Democrats.

If it was a middle easterner obviously I can only vote for Republicans from now on.

[Ignatz]

--The pictures are at InfoWars.--

The only picture I found at all useful at that site was the one with the nice looking rear end circled in red indicating it was "da bomb".

[Threadkiller]

Norm Coleman's seat was stolen by the RNC, maryrose.

http://www.examiner.com/article/consent-decree-from-1982-prohibits-the-rnc-from-combatting-vote-fraud

[Jack is Back!]

p.s.

John Walker Lindh is a white guy.

[Clarice]

Dr J, the reports I saw said the fumes were so noxious the town was forced to evacuate.

[Threadkiller]

Dennis Miller made an interesting observation on Orielly last night. He suggested that no group has claimed responsibility for the bombing because they are fully aware of our limitless Drone strikes.

"Yes, budy, please... We did it, praise..."

[BLAM!!!]

[DrJ]

Clarice, I had not read that. I'm not surprised, though. We use 40% ammonia in water in the lab, and we treat it with a great deal of respect.

[Jack is Back!]

DrJ.

Wonder if they had any chlorine near by for some reason? Then you get Nitrogen Trichloride which is pretty damn explosive if I rememver correctly.

[Janet]

Because he lies all the time he assumes the NRA does too.

Exactly, maryrose. Here's a quote from my friend - "Malice is ever complex and paranoid. Conscious of its own designs, it suspects only malice in others."

[DrJ]

JiB,

Chlorine? I suppose it is possible if they also sell water disinfection chemicals. Most of this has moved to hypochlorites on scales that are below the municipal treatment scales. But I don't really know what they sold,or what is common to be sold.

PoFarmer might have a good idea about what is sold at these sorts of stores. You around, Po?

[Jack is Back!]

A single person of interest (for two backpacks??).

[Janet]

“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
– G.K. Chesterton

[Jack is Back!]

He has a buddie. Appear to be associated. Go to FBI.Gov for photos. Don't look that white to me - some what swarthy in complexion and hair color. Lebanese? Turkish? Chechnyan? Bosnian?

If not that then OWS? Sure don't look 1%.

[Jack is Back!]

The Press want to blame the Post for posting the wrong photos earlier. Plus it sounds like they let some protestor or activist into the presser from the questions and hollering.

[Jack is Back!]

Fox saying first time for these two images but I thought I had seen them before. Maybe not.

[MarkO on laptop]

I had not seen these two. They are little kids. What is up with this?

[Danube of Thought]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio has determined that the photographs are forgeries. http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/

[narciso]

One feels a little like Jack Ryan, in 'Patriot Games' so where does he drop off the backpack, or call the cell.

[NK]

FBI claim any motive?

[NK]

On a train to meeting... Any further details? Names? IDs?

[BB Key]

weasal zippers has the FBI video of the 2 men walking together

[Janet]

Here are the pictures.

[Jack is Back!]

NK,

No. Just two guys with baseball hats, jackets and backpacks. To be honest those packs don't look like they have pressure cookers inside them. Or maybe the one I have is bigger than usual.

[Clarice]

Here we go:http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston