I Buried Paul

Audio forensics reports are available for the upcoming Zimmerman trial. Whether the two reports (FCA, Reich)are actually admissible as evidence is yet to be determined, but the Reich report really needs to be turned into a comedy sketch. A highlight:

"An evangelical preacher or carnival barker". Please.

The evidentiary status of these reports is roughly as firm as their scientific foundation, which is shaky:

Zimmerman’s lead defense attorney Mark O’Mara said the only thing the audio analysis shows is that the recording is not long enough, or good enough quality, to prove anything. “There are two of them, and they seem to be internally inconsistent, because they seem to be saying different things. One witness says he thinks he hears certain things, and another witness says he doesn’t hear that. And none of them can come up with something that is precise … or that is something they can testify with.”

O’Mara said since the analysis came out just a month away from the beginning of the trial, he may ask for a delay in the trial so his defense team can have enough time to look at the science that was used to analyze the call.  He also said he plans on challenging those methods used at an evidentiary hearing he has asked for later this month.

The defense motion is discussed by the Orlando Sentinel. Jeralyn Merritt is doubtful that that the voice analysis can meet the 'Frye' standard applied by Florida courts. When this was topical last year she was pretty sure that the analysis would not pass muster in Federal court under the Daubert standard.

And even if the reprts were admitted, it is not clear what we are learning:

Two new reports from state audio experts give different conclusions about the voice screaming for help just before 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot: One said it was Trayvon. The other said some cries more likely came from his shooter.

It remains to be seen whether jurors will hear about the new evidence at George Zimmerman's trial, set to begin June 10 in Sanford. Zimmerman's lawyer said he may ask to delay the trial in light of the new analysis.

...

Another report, by Harry Hollien and James Harnsberger of Forensic Communication Associates, said the audio quality was insufficient for a definitive voice match. But they found some of the cries came close to matching Trayvon's voice, while others came close to matching Zimmerman's.

The FCA report was interesting and had a good point. They explain that they can't make a definite voice match to anybody in particular but if they assume that the screaming was coming from either Martin or Zimmerman then they can make a sensible guess as to the more likely screamer.

Which is all very well for investigative purposes (or cocktail party chit-chat) but should this go to a jury? What is the level of accuracy, or the track record of this technique? Will the jury get any baseline at all as to what these reports actually might mean?

Different researchers using different techniques come to different answers and the jury is supposed to decide the scientific validity? I don't think so. But I'm not feeling bold enough to predict a Florida court.

HOWEVER! I was bold enough to pooh-pooh voice analysis as a definitive tool in this case.

Comments

[Clarice]

It's not just should this go to a jury? The point is that the jury is in as good a position as the "experts" to decide what this is evidence of and in that case it is not a fit subject for "expert testimony" which is entitled to more weight than non expert testimony.

[MarkO]

From what I can tell about the recordings, DoT would be right to object for lack of foundation, were the recordings to be played even in the absence of an expert.

[narciso]

This was Jeralyn's most recent offering on the subject;

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/5/14/164933/191/crimenews/-Expert-Reports-in-George-Zimmerman-Case-Disclosed

[Captain Hate]

O/T For those of you who use Firefox, in my bookmark history, a JOM thread usually has a small little white inside green avatar kind of thing in the drop down. But today, for some reason, it's just an outline of a blank square. Anybody else notice that?

[MarkO]

But, seriously, if you look at the back cover of the Pepper album, you can see that "Paul" has his back turned and the others don't. On the front, there is an evil hand over "Paul's" head. If that's not enough, "Paul" is the only one holding a black musical instrument.

The shooter was in the sewer ahead of the Presidential limo. The shooter was not born in America.

[anonamom]

So, because somebody declares themself an expert,
they are an expert???

[narciso]

No, Mark, if you read the Third Bullet, the shooter was in the DalTex building,

'an evangelical preacher' didn't anyone tell Reich, the Mandarin isn't real, they did shoot part of the film down here in Dania and at Viscaya.

[MarkO]

narc, I'm going with the guy who played Jack Ruby in the movie.

[narciso]

No, those were the Corsicans, which Bugliosi interestingly 'popped' the bubble, they were all in prison, or out of the country on November 22nd.

[MarkO]

Furtherance of the shoddy Warren Report cover-up. Magic bullet and all. Whoa. What a coincidence to find that bullet on a stretcher. Imagine.

[Dave (in MA)]

Cranberry sauce

[narciso]

Focusing on events a little closer to home, Dave;

http://www.wbur.org/2013/05/15/quabbin-reservoir-trespassing

[daddy]

Scary link Narciso,

But I am sure there is an innocent explanation for why 7 recent Chemical Engineering College Graduates from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore were simply sightseeing when they were caught trespassing at one of the nations's largest man-made public water Reservoirs.

[narciso]

I know crazy right, after it's not like there was an MIT trained microbiologist, who frequented the local ISB mosque, oh wait.

[Gus]

number 9, number 9 number 9!!

I'VE GOT BLISTERS ON MY FINGERS!!!!!!

[Gus]

It's a Pakistani tradition to midnight fish at reserv.BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!

[Gus]

MarkO. On Abbey Road, Paul is barefoot crossing the street!! BAREFOOT!!
My best friend took his shoes off when 4 of us recreated that shot at Abbey road. And he's still alive.

[MarkO]

Gus. It's a funeral procession, with John all in white.

[Gus]

Mark0, tell me what you know about Klaatu!
http://www.klaatu.org/klaatu1.html

[Gus]

THE WALRUS WAS PAUL!!

[MarkO]

Gus, nothing except the movie. I read the link. Wild stuff. Have you heard the songs? Do they sound like Beatles songs?

[narciso]

Barada, Niktu, who happened to be the two other crew on the sand skiff in Jedi.

[Marlene]

Paul better not be dead because the daughter got us tickets for his DC concert in July. :)
daddy and narciso...Howie Carr was upset about about the Quabbin Reservoir trespassing.

[Dave (in MA)]

Is this "these shall be" guy one of those nutcases who talks to Art Bell about ghost voices?

[Dave (in MA)]

It's a Pakistani tradition to midnight fish at reserv.BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!

Now I have to worry about fish pooping in my drinking water?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Going to look for my old Enigma machine to crack most of the comments on this thread.

[narciso]

I'll try to clarify, Mark went on a Kennedy conspiracy jag, and I mentioned some examples,
Gus went Ferris Bueller with the Beattles references,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Thanks narc.
The generic references I got, but the specifics were a little obscure.

[daddy]

Howie Carr was upset about about the Quabbin Reservoir trespassing.

Thanks Marlene,

Please keep us posted on that development and if a link pops up from Howie, etc. Sounds very serious to me, and I hope it adds to the collective stink arising around the Gang of Eight and Immigration Reform.

[Gus]

Dave, if you think you've got it bad, imagine Milwaukee pumps billions of gallons of raw and sometimes partially treated sewage into Lake Michigan every time we have a bad storm.
It's not polution when a LIBTARD Mayor does it.

[cathyf]

To be fair, Gus, oh-so-hoity-toity Wilmette dumps sewage into the lake during big storms, too, and they certainly don't have anything like a liberal mayor. (ok, it's a village, they don't have a mayor at all -- they have a village board president.)

[Carol Herman]

Okay. You go to a reservoir. With your friends. Late at night. What were you going to throw it? It's a lot of water, there! Next time they should just take a hike down a runway. As planes take off.

Someone should go into business, selling doo-hickeys you attach to your kitchen faucets, so in case of contaminations, you can distill out the poisons.

Yeah, glad the police were on enough of their toes to arrest these tykes. How'd they get in? Did they carry shears so they could cut through the fencing?

Boston needs more foreign students. While the SAT's closed down, completely, in South Korea, because of the rampant cheating. Guess there'll be less Korean students showing up in the fall, huh?

[Have Blue]

O/T For those of you who use Firefox, in my bookmark history, a JOM thread usually has a small little white inside green avatar kind of thing in the drop down. But today, for some reason, it's just an outline of a blank square. Anybody else notice that?

Same here. Started on the 15th or late on the 14th after a restart of Firefox. So far JOM is the only site affected. (Have had this happen several times before, has always gone back to normal.)

(This comment did not post the first time I tried it. First time that has happened to me, not that I post much.)

[Neo]

I said from the beginning that anything other than the primary speaker of a cell phone call should be more than suspect.
The speech compression doesn't try to encode anything but the primary speaker, but some other sounds can slip in .. and out .. and artifacts abound.

Did you ever notice that when you listen on a cell phone call that it is never silent, except when it hangs up ? It's called "comfort noise". It's there to comfort you that the call didn't hang up.

[Bruce]

Thanks for the point that Florida is a Frye state and not a Daubert one. I think that it would be fairly straight forward under the latter - the evidence would likely be excluded as lacking scientific basis. This, along with John Edwards channeling dead babies is just the sort of fake expert opinion that is/was admissible under Frye. Still, not sure it is wise for prosecution to push this quasi-epert testimony. Think that with good enough counsel on the other side, they may be able to use its the contradictions against the prosecution.

[Bruce]

Neon - thanks about the comfort noise thing. Is it carried over the air? Or just something that phones do when they think that they are still connected? Moving to an iPhone a couple of years ago from a Blackberry seems to highlight this. The iPhone seems to no do as well there.

[wholesale canon camera]

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