Now Apple Is The Enemy?

Democrats are going to demonize Apple as a non-taxpayer when there are so many US corporations from which to choose? What, did Obama's last fundraising swing through Silicon Valley disappoint?

The Times had an amusing and comprehensible example of a legal tasx minimization ploy:

Atop Apple’s offshore network is a subsidiary named Apple Operations International, which is incorporated in Ireland — where Apple had negotiated a special corporate tax rate of 2 percent or less in recent years — but keeps its bank accounts and records in the United States and holds board meetings in California.

Because the United States bases residency on where companies are incorporated, while Ireland focuses on where they are managed and controlled, Apple Operations International was able to fall neatly between the cracks of the two countries’ jurisdictions.

So for tax purposes Apple was nowhere. That is assuming the Times has this right, and in my experience they have a hard time on issues of tax and finance.

They also allude to a dumb but widely offered argument, to wit, that corparations that leave cash overseas to avoid taxes are inevitably under-investing in their US operations. That could make sense in the case of small businesses that lack ready access to our capital markets. However, the notion that Apple is constrained in its investments by a lack of internally generated cash is absurd. To their credit, the Times presents the research making that point:

As companies’ earnings have accumulated offshore, many executives have been pushing more aggressively for a tax holiday that would allow them to bring back funds at lower tax rates. Apple has recently announced that it will return $100 billion to shareholders over three years through a combination of dividends and purchases of its own shares. Though Apple has enough cash on hand to pay for those initiatives, the company recently announced it would take on $17 billion in debt, rather than bring overseas money back to the United States to avoid paying repatriation taxes on those returning funds.

“If Apple had used its overseas cash to fund this return of capital, the funds would have been diminished by the very high corporate U.S. tax rate of 35 percent,” Mr. Cook is planning to testify, according to the prepared text. Apple “believes the current system, which applies industrial era concepts to a digital economy, actually undermines U.S. competitiveness.”

Critics, however, say these so-called repatriation holidays, which bring back funds at lower tax rates, do virtually nothing to stimulate the economy and benefit only corporations, their executives and shareholders. Congress enacted a repatriation holiday in 2004, allowing corporations to bring back about $300 billion from overseas and pay just 5.25 percent rather than the regular 35 percent corporate rate.

But a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that 92 percent of the repatriated cash was used to pay for dividends, share buybacks or executive bonuses.

“Repatriations did not lead to an increase in domestic investment, employment or R.&D., even for the firms that lobbied for the tax holiday stating these intentions,” concluded the study, which was conducted by a team of three economists that included a former Bush administration official. Tuesday’s hearing on Capitol Hill, along with the disclosures about Apple’s tax policies, are likely to make lowering repatriation taxes a more difficult proposition for lawmakers to stomach, Congressional staff members said.

 BIG FINISH: The most creative minds in Silicon Valley study and create computer code, the most creative minds in Wall Street study, and lobby for changes in, the tax code, and the result is Apple.

 

 

Comments

[Frau Steingehirn]

We know who's drinking *all* the milkshakes.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Powerline has the vid and text of Rand Paul at the Apple hearings. Good stuff.

I am offended by the tone and tenor of this hearing. I am offended by a $4 trillion government bullying, berating and badgering one of America’s greatest success stories.

Tell me one of these politicians up here that doesn’t minimize their taxes. Tell me a chief financial officer that you would hire if he didn’t try to minimize your taxes legally. Tell me what Apple has done that is illegal.

[Captain Hate]

My son in law works for Apple. We should have some interesting conversations.

[lyle]

Apple's board is lousy with (Gus alert!) BIG TIME DEM DONORS to say nothing of the porcine AlGore. And they were just fine with the company's tax avoidance? I'm so shocked I can barely stifle a yawn.

[NK]

Agree with rand Paul on this.

[Janet]

Made it back from the small rally a bit ago. It was really small.
The few people I talked with could be from JOM...well informed, unsure what to do,...

I don't know.

[Jane]

I agree with Rand Paul too, regardless of who is on the board. That's a whole different subject. So whose idea was the hearing?

[glasater]

Tim Cook said Apple had paid taxes on the money that went into the Ireland account. But that wasn't good enough for Levin and McCain.
Apple has an 'unfair' advantage. Geez those bozos are dumb.

[daddy]

Good Morning!

The Newest Zero.

The Oldest Zero.

Hindu and Mayan Paleo-Mathematicians hardest hit!

The image is from a stella in a Cambodian Temple from 638 AD.

The zero is the dot in the middle, to the right of the spiral-looking character, which is a 6 in Old Khmer. The numeral to the right of the dot is a 5, making the full number 605. The inscription says: “The Chaka era reached year 605 on the fifth day of the waning moon…” We know that in Cambodia the Chaka era began in the year 78 AD. Thus the date of this zero is 605 + 78 = 683."

The discovery is by Amir Aczel, a decent writer of general Science (his Pendulum: Leon Foucault and the Triumph of Science is a fine read) but today he takes much heat from Mayan and Indian Math fans in the comments to the Science story announcing his discovery:

How I Rediscovered the Oldest Zero in History

[jimmyk]

Yeah, Lyle, those donors must be feeling a bit like the AP journos who got tapped despite all their years of Obama-worship. Karma.

[daddy]

Let me fix that first Paragraph from the Times for you TM:

Atop Apple’s offshore network is a subsidiary named Apple Operations International, which is incorporated in Ireland (Like Chris Dodd)(— where Apple had negotiated a special corporate tax rate of 2 percent or less in recent years (like Charlie Rangall) — but keeps its bank accounts and records in the United States and holds board meetings in California.(Like Jon Corzine).

Folks who know the players better than I could play with that paragraph all day long.

[Dave (in MA)]

Made it back from the small rally a bit ago. It was really small.

Yeah, we know.

[Dave (in MA)]

daddy, so much for the Muslims having invented the concept of Zero circa 800.

[Dublindave]

Oh come on, this is 'Apple' we're talking about. Their whose most innovative measures have been finding ways to sidestep federal tax laws by hiding their money in dodgy offshore subsidiaries.

They'll use American infrastructure and American resources, but unlike every other tax payer in the country...they just don't want to pay for the shit.

Apple are scum.

[Danube on iPad]

"Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant."

Judge Learned Hand, Commissioner v. Newman, 159 F2d 848 (1947)

End of discussion.

[Captain Hate]

Senator John McCain praised Apple as an American business success story, but he said the company's tax strategy reflected a "flawed" tax system.

Jeez, McRINO, who constructed that "flawed system"? Idiot.

[DrJ]

DoT,

Absolutely right. I love the double standard: if you do as the law requires and the politicos don't like the result, you have no ethics. Many agencies choose not to follow the law, but that is OK and even ethical. I'm glad I don't have those flexible ethics.

[lyle]

Hey kids, who's up for a syllogism using my observation re Apple's management and dumbassdave's comment?

-Apple's management is overwhelmingly Dem.

-Apple are scum.

-Ergo, Dem are scum.

You can't refute logic!

[Captain Hate]

O/T I hope Boehner is paying attention to this: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/21/over-150-conservative-leaders-groups-sign-letter-opposing-gang-of-8-bill/

[Rob Crawford]

Jeez, McRINO, who constructed that "flawed system"?

You know how he'd answer: "SPECIAL INTERESTS!!!"

Then he'd go on some bumbling monologue about too much money in politics before he headed off to his limo to his luxury home in DC.

At some point, his daughter Boobs would chime in with, "Ew, and they weren't even gay!"

[daddy]

Just caught up with most of the comments since last night and all I can say is that with the Administration on the ropes, this is the precise moment when John McCain and Lindsey Graham are at their most dangerous.

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

The Apple hearing displays the World's Greatest Deliberative Body at its worst, with the exception of Rand Paul. Taking turns posturing, emoting, and displaying selective outrage over, shaming, and blasting the most successful startup in American history for perfectly legal activity. What a bunch of hypocritical maroons.

[jimmyk]

" I'm glad I don't have those flexible ethics."

AKA "The ends justify the means." Democrat credo.

[Rob Crawford]

‘Here’s a Dick pic.’ Only after scrolling to the bottom of the email was a picture of Dick Cheney visible,” said the press release.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/21/atheist-group-says-the-daily-caller-is-the-most-unethical-news-publication/#ixzz2TxEHoz9f

Hehehehehehehehehehe...

[Janet]

Thanks, Dave! and you too, hit.
That must have been near the beginning...a few more people than that came. Not many more though.

[Jeff Dobbs]

And Jane's the one who spotted you on twitter...

[Janet]

Thanks, Jane!
I talked to David Weigel for a bit. Wasn't he a journolister?

[jimmyk]

I wonder what our national debt is in Roman numbers?

Daddy @2:00, that author wasn't clear about when that inscription was actually made. I suppose he knows it was contemporaneous, but he doesn't say how he knows that.

[daddy]

So the Dem's want other peoples money? Ho hum. What else is new?

Hillary Clinton, 2007: "The other day the oil companies recorded the highest profits in the history of the world. I want to take those profits. And I want to put them into a strategic energy fund that will begin to fund alternative smart energy, alternatives and technologies that will actually begin to move us in the direction of independence."

[Old Lurker]

If it were not so sad for the country, it would be sweet justice to see a Lib Rockstar Host turned on by its parasite once it had served its usefulness.

Apple is a liberal icon, populated by liberals and governed by liberals. How it must have assumed that the government it supports would never turn on IT. Golly, paying Al Gore $1M a day to be on the board should have been worth something, right? Who do they think they are, GM? Oh. Wait.

Had any of those idiots read any history at all, they would have known better.

[Rob Crawford]

I wonder what our national debt is in Roman numbers?

According to Wikipedia, the Romans themselves wouldn't have been able to write such a large number. The Medieval extensions -- using bars around the letters to say "multiply this by 100" would quickly end up looking like dozens of overlapping games of tic-tac-toe.

[daddy]

I wonder what our national debt is in Roman numbers?

Ha! We'd probably need a Quantum Calculator to print that out JimmyK.

Hopefully Aczel will do more research on the Cambodian Zero. Probably comes from the Hindu's and I probably need to reread Charles Seife's Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea, which I haven't read in (1 plus zero) years or so.

[lyle]

Golly, paying Al Gore $1M a day to be on the board should have been worth something, right?

OL, I yield to no one in my loathing of the AlGore, but it needs to be pointed out he's paid the cool mill per diem during actual board meetings. It still a ridiculous sum but it's not $365M.

[daddy]

OK, Off to the IRS Building at 36th Ave in midtown Anchorage to see if we've got as many angry Tea Partier's as there appear to be in Massachusetts.

Wish me an Audit!

[Old Lurker]

Did not mean to mislead, Lyle, I meant what you said. It is a waste of money either way.

[Jack of the Loony Fringe!]

As Clarice will hopefully second, this the oldest fund raising and opposition squelching gambit in political DC. Apple hasn't been supporting the Dems enough or giving enough to the 527's fighting. those mean, racist Tea Partiers. The tax issue is only a fair warning.

Whatch the FEC quarterly reports to see if they learned thei lesson.

Instead of nurturing more Apple typeof enterprise these asshats want to make them a topic. of being unpatriotic, according to Sheriff Joe.

[Jack of the Loony Fringe!]

Re: Roman numerals for. very large numbers.

It would start and look somethig like this (actual problem in engineering grad school:

CCICCCICCCCICCCCCICCCCCCICCCCCCCICCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCI

I may have. missed a few. digits but that was how in. medieval times they expressed very large numbers. I just took it out to 17 trillion!

[Jack of the Loony Fringe!]

Sorry how that looks, didnot return automatically. Again:

CCICCCICCCCICCCCICCCCICCCCCCCICCCCCCCCI
CCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCI
CCCCCCCCCCCCICCCCCCCCCCCCCI
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCI

[jimmyk]

Exponentials would have come in handy. (MM)^(IV) just about gets it I think.

[Jack is Back! (Grand Inquisitor)]

jimmyk,

It does work but those Latins were more interested in conquests than budgets, deficits and debt. Although they did have a very simplified taxation system - pay up or die!

Sort of like our present one.

[Rob Crawford]

JiB -- at one point the Romans had so debased their coins that they refused to accept them for tax debts. You had to pay in goods or services.

So, we have that to look forward to...

[Jane -]

Did someone post a pix of tea partiers in MA?

[Jack is Back! (Grand Inquisitor)]

Jane, just this one.

[Rob Crawford]

Anyone have a recommendation for a charity to help out with OK? As much help for the buck as possible, as close to the scene as possible. Red Cross would be my normal choice, but...

[MarkO]

It is officially immoral to keep your own money. DOOM.

[Jane -]

It will be interesting to see how many show up at the next tea party meeting.

[jimmyk]

Americares is the usual recommendation in these parts, Rob. I'd go to their website and see what they are saying.

[Porchlight]

Feed The Children is based in OK City, Rob. A fellow conservative friend recommended it on Facebook.

http://www.feedthechildren.org

[Rob Crawford]

It is officially immoral to keep your own money.

Are you a HOARDER?!

[Sandy Daze]

RC -

Bill Bennett was recommending Feed the Children this morning. I know they have done some good work, 86% according to their website goes to actual work as opposed to suppport, and FTC is Okalhoma City based.

FYI.

[Manuel Transmission]

I heard Beck say zero OH on his fundraiser (not counting credit card skim).

[Jane -]

I would never give a dime to the red cross. They are the most inefficient, union organization on the planet.

[lyle]

Anyone catch this in the WSJ today?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323398204578489542660099544.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_LeadStoryNA

They list symptoms of social skill that might be a warning of mental illness such as:

Social indifference To engage others, people must be able to recognize social or emotional information as personally meaningful. [snip]

Out of sync with others
Paying attention with other people, known as joint attention, is a fundamental skill in social behavior. [snip]

Inappropriate behavior
Social cues govern many behaviors. [snip] ...may become subject to social punishment, such as glaring looks from others.

Lack of empathy
Empathy is one of the most complex social skills. Someone who lacks empathy might have trouble reading emotion...[snip]

Or, more simply, they could just be progtards.

[Sandy Daze]

I would never give a dime to the red cross. They are the most inefficient, union organization on the planet.

NOTHNG, zilch, ZERO.

And, Jane, not just inefficient, but with a sense of entitlement, i.e. "All your donations are belong to us..."

My dad (RIP) in WWII was poorly treated by the ARC; that there are many modern-day stories shows that the ARC has not changed.

[James D.]

Janet just posted this on FB:

@joshtpm @CapehartJ @ezraklein & other lefty columnists headed into the West Wing as a group. POTUS coffee? Carney meeting? Anyone?

I know hatred is unproductive, and unchristian, and corrosive to one's own soul...but I really do hate these loathsome vermin with every fiber of my being.

The fact that despite their pettiness, dishonesty and ignorance, they're given national platforms with which they can spew their garbage is just disheartening beyond words.

[lyle]

Just a little message management and maybe some light buggering, James D.

[anonamom]

Salvation Army and Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse have set up relief operations in Moore.

Ditto on pox on ARC.

[lyle]

Just another linky, then I'm done!

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-obama-media-war.html

Well worth your time...but you knew that.

[Landru]

Another study from NBER came to a different conclusion:

http://www.nber.org/papers/w15248.pdf?new_window=1

"We are not the first to empirically examine the American Jobs Creation Act (AJCA).
Dharmapala, Foley, and Forbes (2011) and Blouin and Krull (2009), among others, examine the use of funds repatriated under the AJCA. Both papers conclude that the majority of repatriated funds were used to increase payments to shareholders (their estimates range from 50 to 90%). Dharmapala,
Foley, and Forbes find no increase in investment due to repatriation. We find the opposite. We find the AJCA led to large increases in investment, but only among the subset of firm which are capital
constrained. These firms increased their investment by 11 percent, investing 78 percent of the capital they repatriated. While these firms represent 44 percent of repatriating firms, they account for only
27 percent of the repatriated funds. We find minimal increases in payments to shareholders of unconstrained firms. At most 25 percent of their repatriated cash is goes to higher equity payouts
in the years following repatriation."

[NK]

So Lerner invokes 5th Amendment Priviliege, asks to be excused from appearing before Issa's Cmte-- no purpose in forcing her to publicly invoke her priviliege. So this witch who tyrannized USA citizens trying to invoke their constitutional rights to expression and association demands her rights be accommodated so as to avoid public embasrassment. I have one reaction for Ms. Lerner-- "Go Fuck yourself"

[lyle]

I'm in total and complete agreement with the last three words of your comment, NK. She's getting subpoenaed anyway so any cable news junkie can watch her invoke the fifth...repeatedly. Clearly, though, her constitutional rights are more important than anyone else's. Especially those teabaggers.

[Jane on Ipad]

We are under tornado alert. That sucks. I'll keep you posted.

[Sue]

I'm not that upset her attorney is saying that. If Dems and administration start saying it then it will be a problem.

[NK]

Lyle-- I have a vague recollection that under House rules, if a subpoenaed witness invokes the 5th before appearing, no live video of them invoking the 5th is permitted. can't vouh that's the case, but it is a vague recollection from Clinton days,

[Jane -]

Tornado threat appears to have passed. Bring on the Tito's.

[anonamom]

How can the judge who allowed the access to James Rosen's email
be held accountable for believing for a minute that Rosen was a co-conspirator?

Who evaluates the warrant issuance?

[DGS]

Jane,

No pictures, but the turnout at the IRS building during lunch was very disappointing. A work friend and I went and there were only about 25 people. We were there at about 12:30 for a short while. Almost as many camera people, interviewers and police as participants. Only one protester.

[anonamom]

How Hope and Change Gave Way to Spying on the Press

What all of us in the media need to remember—whatever our politics—is that we need to hold government actions to the same standard, whether they’re aimed at friends or foes. If not, there’s no one but ourselves to blame when the administration takes aim at us.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/21/how-hope-and-change-gave-way-to-spying-on-the-press.html

[DGS]

... IRS building in Government Center, Boston.

Sorry I left out the specifics.

[Jane -]

Thanks for going DGS. (How are you BTW?) I'm not worried. Tea Partiers work.

[Janet]

Almost as many camera people, interviewers and police as participants.

Same in DC, DGS.

[MarkO]

The only way to get the warrant was to lie in the affidavit and suggest that Rosen was really under threat of being prosecuted. The FBI agent should be fired along with anyone in DOJ who participated in the fraud.

[daddy]

Just back from the Anchorage Tea Party Protest out front of the IRS Office that is on the first floor of the CH2M Building in midtown Anchorage:

Of interest, the CH2M building used to be the VECO Building, which is the defunct outfit that was embroiled with the State Repub Prosecutions and run by Bill Allen of Ted Stevens Trial infamy.

Decent turnout for such a poorly advertised event. I counted about 50 folks, but unfortunately at age late 50's I was about the youngest of the bunch. Much enthusiasm though from cars driving by and honking.

Homeland Security was stationed outside the door of the Building, with an armed Officer on duty and a White Police Type SUV with the printed logo "Homeland Security" just in front of the main entrance. There was also an individual on top of the building looking down at us that we continually pointed at and called "Big Brother".

TV cameras were there as well so if pic's are posted later, I'm the white bearded guy in the white "Anchorage Tea Party" sweatshirt holding the "Impeach Holder" sign.

Also worth mentioning that a State Politician, Bob Lynn, came up to chat with me and said that in 2012, during his 10th Campaign, he received a new Form from the IRS he had never sen before (Form 990), Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax He was wondering if he was being targeted as a Conservative.

[narciso]

It is striking, MarkO, how Rosen took pains not to mention 'sources and methods' and yet it didn't matter.

[Jane -]

Good for you Daddy! I await the pix.

[Captain Hate]

Hey, looks like the turn out wasn't so bad on short notice http://twitchy.com/2013/05/21/tea-party-is-alive-and-pissed-patriots-protest-at-irs-offices-across-the-country-pics/

[Jeff Dobbs]

If I ruled the world, there would be a standard procedure that ensured the JOM conversation took place in only one thread at a time.

If I were writing those rules, unless a thread is specifically about the single topic a particular conversation is currently engaged in, there really is no good reason not to migrate to the most recent thread.

But I don't really want to rule the world or write those rules. Sounds like a lot of work and hassle, the likes of which could ultimately cause me to be embarrassed and burdened.

[narciso]

Well since this is computer related;

http://twitchy.com/2013/05/21/new-yorker-justice-department-seized-phone-records-of-white-house-staffer-lines/

[Stephanie]

Co-chair, hit? Been thinking that a long, long time. Also, a courteous 'there's a new thread' post would be most appreciated. Nothing like talking to yourself for hours like a lunatic- Loony progressives might even start thinking that you're switching sides.

[MarkO]

hit, take the fifth . . . pour and enjoy.

[centralcal]

I didn't get my car back until mid afternoon and I couldn't find any local news reports on the internet to see how the turnout went in my city.

So - good ol' Instapundit had a photo submitted by someone in Fresno. Too close in to estimate turn out.

We have an IRS Service Center and an Admin Office of some sort, and the local tea party chose the Admin Office with the suits, rather than the S.C. where lots of non-IRS folks would be coming and going.

[daddy]

Jane,

Howie Carr is hosting Mark Levin's Show today. Nice to hear him.

He just mentioned how Sheryl Atkinson of CBS is now fairly certain that her computers were bugged or attacked, probably by the Administration, since @2011-2012.

We know those bastards can get into our computers, but my fear remains that we won't do the reciprocal and get ahold of their computers. Hearings and taking the Fifth is fine and all, but we need the specifics in the computers to get to the bottom of this.

Lets get some angry Apple Tech reps to go thru the IRS computers and give those bastards some well deserved payback.

[Jack is Back! (Grand Inquisitor)]

By Lerner invoking the 5th, it makes it headline main street media. They can not now avoid it. We are in Iran-Contra territory more than Watergate but more than enough to ensure and audience.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Mark:
hit, take the fifth . . . pour and enjoy.

I love fifths. I sometimes have enough to make 40%

[narciso]

GovMo and GowPower feed ThinkRegress;

http://freebeacon.com/progressives-for-sale/

[anonamom]

Another boots-on-the-ground non-profit in OK:

Mercy Chefs is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, faith based, public charity founded in 2006 to serve high quality, professionally prepared meals in natural disasters and national emergencies by recruiting industry professionals and training community based volunteers. Mercy Chefs also supports the mission of other faith based organizations by providing food service.

One of their mobile units is already there; a second on its way.

http://www.mercychefs.com/

[centralcal]

What an interesting and creative charity concept, anonamom!

[Jane -]

I'm sure this won't be clear, but for the first time in a long time things are moving so fast that they aren't moving fast enough for me. I want a closet-full of shoes to drop.

I shouldn't. The drip drip drip is much more deadly, but I feel like I'm waiting for Christmas these days.

[MarkO]

What are we to make of the invocation of the privilege against self-incrimination. Well, in civil matters even the courts draw an adverse inference:

In the seminal case of Baxter v. Palmigiano, the Supreme Court held that:

[The] Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against
parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to
probative evidence offered against them: the Amendment “does
not preclude the inference where the privilege is claimed by a party
to a civil cause.”

[sailor]

Well, I am just sorry that the tea party did not present a larger and more united front. I think it's because of the late notice. Where I live, there are no tea partiers--just LIVs and people on food stamps.

[daddy]

Breaklng news ticker on Lou Dobbs Show:

Senate Judiciary Committee Approves Gang of Eight Immigration Bill

[Jeff Dobbs]

I hope you're right JiB.

Who here knows the name Patrick Cunningham? Without googling. Do you know any LIVs who know that name?

[daddy]

Lou Dobbs,

By the way they got some Republicans, a vote of 13 to 5. Is it going to move forward, are we going to get a Breakthrough?

"Much more slowly" and "it ain't gonna' happen for awhile", answer his panelists.

[Captain Hate]

The disgust I have for the four Repukes in that gang of 8 is impossible to express in non ban worthy terms.

[narciso]

In what context, JiB, re Fast and Furious;

[Ralph L]

On a lighter note: This is Talk Like Yoda Day
Break me a fucking give!

[gmax]

Invoking the 5th may not be held against you in a criminal court, but this is the court of public opinion and in that venue, people will rightly think "you must have done something very wrong". Splatter pattern all over Democrat administration is just gravy.

[DrJ]

Break me a fucking give!

Wouldn't "A f**king break give me, hmmmm?" be closer?

:)

[daddy]

I still want to know why Mr Miller and Ms Lerner are not being hammered by Holder and Obama for leaking news to the Media, prior to that info being officially released thru the proper Govt channels? I don't hear anybody bringing that up.

Am I wrong to be expecting that answer? Hammering leakers is supposedly the only damn thing Holder and Obama do care about.

Captain,

I share your disgust. Gonna' be an angry walk today. To the dogs...

[narciso]

Miller and Lerner, let loose the squirrels, the latter tried to minimize the impact of the IG report.