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June 09, 2013

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centralcal

Video link to interview of Edward Snowden.

centralcal

Thanks for sharing the info on "Angler," caro.

maryrose

Jane and caro:
Thank you for the article and additional information. I hope you two are having a great time.With Clarice's article and the information on Snowden, I feel like truth is finally coming out in the open. We need to remain vigilant as patriots to protect our rights and freedoms at all times.
daddy: I share your frustration but try not to let it get me down.

daddy

Jane, Thanks for the Snowdon Link. Mandatory reading, obviously.

Here it is again: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations

Like him or loathe him he wouldn't be one of the jackasses blithely line dancing in the IRS video. I can understand that and I can respect him, at least for that.

We are gonna' hear a whole lot more about Mr Snowdon.

daddy

Clarice,

Thank you for the mention in your excellent Pieces. It is a real honor to make an appearance in one of those. I showed it to Momma this morning and she hammered me instantly on the misspellings in my quote:) I feel honored. Cheers.

Jane -

To me, the biggest question is who will the left side with - Obama or Snowden?

This could absolutely crush him.

centralcal

We are gonna' hear a whole lot more about Mr Snowdon.

Buzzfeed (per a Twitter comment by someone else) already has a short bullet list and Item #5 is ..."He voted for a third-party candidate in 2008."

Uh oh, NOT an Obama voter - go get him liberal media! Sic! Sic!

4Jack is Back!2

Snowden is more OWS then any one political party. He is another Bradley Manning. Young, naive, progressive, looking for his 15 minutes of fame but in this case much more.

Now, saying all that, it would appear he is the type to fawn over every word and action of the Preezy. So, from his interview, he seems to fit in more with Anonymous than any other organization, maybe Wikileaks.

The fact that he considers Hong Kong a bastion of free speech and privacy is laughable and only endorses his naivete. When you look at his CV, no high school diploma, CIA, etc. Its conceivable he was put up by the Regime as the perfect foil and distraction. He was in Geneva in 2007 for the CIA (Bush Time) and became initially disillusioned with "his government".

A perfect foil: We can now blame Bush for polluting this young man's mind and make him a disgruntled whistleblower. Bet he gets off scott-free or with an Obama pardon and big thank you.

Jane -

I dunno Jib. He voted 3rd party in 2008. He was pretty discriminate in what he published, and fairly accomplished for a guy who didn't graduate HS.

I think this could bring Obama down, and raise Rand Paul into the running for 2016.

centralcal

Funny, Jack - you immediately think OWS and I think Ron Paul-iac.

Stephanie

By coming forward he has just mooted any need for an investigation for the Obama administration to hide behind. No "we can't answer that as it is under investigation" crap by Carney.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance


"And he knows only too well the sophisticated technology available to them and how easy it will be for them to find him. The NSA police and other law enforcement officers have twice visited his home in Hawaii and already contacted his girlfriend, though he believes that may have been prompted by his absence from work, and not because of suspicions of any connection to the leaks.

"All my options are bad," he said. The US could begin extradition proceedings against him, a potentially problematic, lengthy and unpredictable course for Washington. Or the Chinese government might whisk him away for questioning, viewing him as a useful source of information. Or he might end up being grabbed and bundled into a plane bound for US territory.

"Yes, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Triads. Any of their agents or assets," he said.

"We have got a CIA station just up the road – the consulate here in Hong Kong – and I am sure they are going to be busy for the next week. And that is a concern I will live with for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be."

Just don't be rappelling off any choppers. The Boston SWAPs now know what happens to the 'triggermen'.

Stephanie

If he were smart, he would have pulled out some rather embarrassing shit on all those that would attempt to smear him. He seems to have a contingency planning mind so he might have. Wonder how many sphincters are twitching in Washington right now.

Jane -

By coming forward he has just mooted any need for an investigation for the Obama administration to hide behind.

Exactly!

daddy

First thoughts on Snowdon, are that with our President and the Leader of China (the de-facto leader of Hong Kong) both hanging around in California as this Internet Leak erupts, Snowdon going public was probably the smartest thing he could do for his own personal protection.

I have no idea who he'll open his hotel door for when he finally does open it, but my guess is that the News Cameras will be there when he does and it'll be instantly broadcast around the globe.

4Jack is Back!2

CC,

I didn't even consider Paul since he has always been a "fart in a bottle" to me but you know now that you mention it, I like it.

Now, lets see who comes to his defense, the left or the right. My money is more on the right than the left but the right has a lot of neo-conservatives and that may throttle back the enthusiasm for Mr. Snowden.

Clarice

daddy, thank you for providing the material. I must be really going blind cause I did not notice any misspellings. (I'd have edited them out if I had as we're friends.)

Jane -

From Twitter: Manning & Ellsberg revealed data; Snowden revealed conditions under which data circulate--whistleblowing on info vs on infrastructure #NSA

Stephanie

More evidence of Obama leading from behind isn't it Jane?

I'd mention something about horses and barns but we've already seen Zero's ability to handle a horse.

daddy

So who's he gonna' open his door for?

Bono?
Sean Penn?
Rand Paul?
Eric Holder?
Piers Morgan?
UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon?
The Dalai Lama?

Perhaps Vladimir Putin? That'd split the difference betwixt China and us.

centralcal

Honestly, I am not sure what to make of Mr. Snowden. I think we should all wait awhile before coming to any pro or con conclusions.

Right now, the only thing in his favor that everyone seems to be agreeing about on Twitter is that he didn't out anyone, or any specific program - rather only processes.

Clarice

How much was he in a position to actually know? Is he fronting for someone--some thing else?

Jane -

Oh I think he knows.

daddy

No sweat Clarice. I'm glad you left it as is. I got a good chuckle at Momma hammering me:)

I think Snowdon just cranked the NSA/PRISM discussion "up to Eleven."

.



maryrose

We need to know about the process.I hope for his own protection he has the goods on somebody. I wouldn't put it past Preezy to drone him or execute him like that friend of the Boston bombers in Florida.

4Jack is Back!2

Gosh, how could I miss it. Of course, he is Libertarian and a Paulian. That is why Greenwald got them. But Greenwald is not the WaPo or WSJ or USA Today.

So, why then the left-progressive Guardian? Because they have a big bureau in HK.

Yes, it will be very interesting to see how this plays with Rand Paul. Could he have just pulled an Obama? I bet Axelplouffe are busy playing 3 stooges with ValJar - poking eyes, slapping heads and giving wedgies for missing all this.

hrtshpdbox

After a day or two everyone might hate him, but as of right now I think Snowden is some kind of unalloyed American hero. It seems (again, right now) that he's blaming "the system" for the incremental defilement of civil liberties, and not one party or politician. Even if Romney happened to be President right now, I suspect I'd still admire this guy and wish him well.

rse

Clarice-if it helps I downloaded the report from an Asia-Pacific conference from less than a year ago saying the Atlantic countries are in decline and the 21st will be the Asian century. Especially China and it talked about commencing reforms of the HK ed system just after turnover.

Says Gillard, our Arne, and Tony Blair among others all cooperated with the report.

And it said once again what I have been saying for a while that all these ed reforms are to get the UN inspired fair, equitable, and sustainable global society.

My favorite part is the so-called necessary revolution in human relations that will be needed. And the State as being in charge of the economy.

There really is a sense that the whole world will be marching to the Chinese beat and our leaders just seem to be cooperating with the vision.

So yes I do find it fascinating that HK is where he went.

4Jack is Back!2

Hey daddy,

Watching the Memphis Open and they just showed two of the pros trying out the FedEx simulator. They came out on buckled knees:)

Jeff Dobbs

Well, I'm not keeping up, so I don't have much to add to the discussion.

But I do have Obama burning a strawman.

Obama Burning a Strawman

centralcal

This is posted only for a certain JOM commenter. Not because I wish him to start up again today, but thought he might want to take a quick trip to Hong Kong and meet with Mr. Snowden!

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l

Edward Snowden worked at NSA office in Hawaii: He should know everything about Obama's birth certificate

matt

daddy, the same is true in most public agencies. Coming home from the Airport last year I was amazed to for three (count em, three) Caltrans highway sweeping caravans (3-4 sweepers, safety trucks, even a couple of CHP cars for safety) on my way home.

It took me a minute, but I realized it was July 31, end of the fiscal year.

How many billions of dollars are blown in this manner every year? It is true with almost all government agencies as well.

Clarice

Story seems to be pretty much Greenwald B.S.http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/nsa-story-falling-apart-under-scrutiny-key-facts-turning-out-to-be-inaccurate/

daddy

You know, under this PRISM crap, they could probably get to 51% on almost every person here just by checking what websites you visited on a given day.

Stephanie, (responding to your 12:28 on catch-up)

Just listening or linking to anything as innocuous as Michael Savage for instance and instantly you'd be tied into a guy who is banned from Britain for fostering extremism and racial and ethnic hatred.

Probably the only guy who's safe here is Narciso, since he is so amazing in reading all these Middle Eastern threads they would probably conspicuously avoid targeting him by assuming anyone reading that much Islamic stuff has to be Islamic, so obviously not a legitimate target. But the rest of us...

Jane -

as of right now I think Snowden is some kind of unalloyed American hero.

The only defense of Obama I've seen is "they all do it".

Clarice

Snowden-greenwald story is falling apart--see my penultimate post here.

Jane -

CLarice,

Even if "key fact" are being revised, it still have everyone talking about the loss of liberty and no one in the gvt is denying it so I still think it is very big.

maryrose

Obama on defense. I love it. That means his so called anti American agenda is caught up in the weeds.

Cecil_Turner#

Story seems to be pretty much Greenwald B.S.

Yep. What the DNI said yesterday. And not one single allegation of tracking domestic (or non-FISA) targets.

Leap at the shiny object. Ignore the IRS scandal. (And, I gotta say, accept an obviously self-serving legend from the leaker as gospel.) Color me unimpressed.

centralcal

Clarice, I followed your link to the daily banter and read the whole thing, including this at the bottom:

(Special thanks to both JM Ashby and Charles Johnson from Little Green Footballs, whose coverage on this topic has been tenacious.)

To say flashing lights and sirens went off for me immediately over one of those names, is an understatement.

matt

I have seen the Chinese special forces at work in Hong Kong Harbor. We were having lunch on the Kowloon side and there they went, zipping by in their Rigid Inflatables just like our special boat teams. It's an interesting place to hole up. Hey, maybe it will like it used to be!

In reading the Guardian article, what caused the most distaste was reading his account of CIA officers setting a Swiss banker to get him to open up the vault, as it were. I've never been good with the scumbag side of the job. The Russians are the masters, of course, which is why Angleton had to go.

When you had good Catlicks and Mormons running some of this stuff it was pretty clean but you always needed a grand inquisitor to keep the game clean. Now we have a bunch of little Eichmann's running the whole kit and kaboodle.

hrtshpdbox

"Snowden-greenwald story is falling apart--see my penultimate post here."

Read it, unimpressed. Story says...

"Unless the tech companies were collectively lying, Greenwald’s use of “direct access” is inaccurate."

The tech companies could be lying, but they probably are just unaware of how much liberty they gave away to the spooks.

Stephanie

Sorry Clarice but any blog giving kudos to Cahrles Jhonson for reporting on this is not gonna get any credence from me.

They can site walkbacks til the cows come home, but as the media walks back bad info all the time to cover this administration's ass, I'm more inclined to go with initial reporting on a story like this where there aren't shooters or terrorists or other rush to be first scoops to be had.

Patterns and practice, baby. Patterns and practice.

matt

Zuckerberg lie? never!

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

Ceska is a well-known obot Admin apologist.

All such creatures despise Greenwald.

Clarice

As bad as CJ has become, I cannot ever completely discount his work after the great job he did on Dan Rather and the fake Bush records. YMMV

OTOH, Can someone point me to a Greenwald story which wasn't crap?

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

Cesca-sorry

daddy

I don't think this plays well for Obama for this reason.

Snowdon says he did not like the system under Bush and was hopeful following Obama's election that he would carry thru on his words and do something about the system. Since Obama didn't, and became a hypocrite to his own slogans prior to the election, Snowdon decided he has to do something about it. That seems easily understandable by me and I assume by millions of LIV's--- Angry at being betrayed by the very words spoken by Candidate Obama.

Since he is in a Hong Kong Hotel room, it is worth mentioning that they do have FOX news in Hong Kong on the Telly. The Guradian Interview however says he is propped up in his room watching Wolf Blitzer on CNN and next to his bed is a thumbed copy of "Angler", the new bio on Dick Cheney. That tells me he is a Lefty, and that bit about CNN and Cheney, if reported, will establish his bonafides with the Left.

My initial take is that he sounds like a disappointed "True Believer."

I think he will play well with the public, and make both Bush and Obama, plus the CIA look bad.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

Gee. I guess as when Pilate asked 'What is Truth' he thought it sprung only from one particular ideology; his own.

hrtshpdbox

"I think he will play well with the public, and make both Bush and Obama, plus the CIA look bad."

Agreed.It's almost a given. But the sheer arrogance of Obama and his crew represents the multiplier in these programs' expansion during his reign; GW was a relative piker in this regard.

Jane -

I really need to proof read.

I don't think it plays well for Obama either because you can easily link the NSA spying to the IRS finishing the job. The NSA tells the IRS who to target for whatever whimsical reason and the Obamacrats get to work.

I'm not suggesting that is going on. I'm also not suggesting Obama is the least bit above doing that.

daddy

I could see Snowdon opening his door to Zuckerberg.

jimmyk

Funny, Jack - you immediately think OWS and I think Ron Paul-iac.

Sounds like a case of Blair's Law:

http://www.urbandictionary.comefine.php?term=Blair%27s+law

Clarice

I re-acquainted myself with Greenwald Fri when I wrote the column. DoT will understand . Greenwald's big experience was at a big law firm for 18 months where he says he represented "major companies." A newly graduated lawyer working for 18 months in a firm has experiences more akin to paralegals--shuffling discovery papers and the like.

daddy

And FWIW I keep watching FOX and have not yet seen the Snowdon story breaking. It may have and I may have missed it due to dogwalks and Ball-Games, but if not, maybe they don't know what to say about it yet.

Anyone else seen it on any of the major Sunday News Shows yet?

4Jack is Back!2

Charles Johnson of LGF is part of the posse? Consider me skeptical and unimpressed.

Now we have the makings of a cover up but for who? I think this helps Obama because he can point to Bush. Do we have a interested unknown 3rd party in the mix?

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

All I know for sure is I have renewed hope for our 'Yoot'.

centralcal

Clarice, you are right to be skeptical of Greenwald. But, I would add the whole sorry lot - Greenwald, Cesca, Johnson to my skepticism list.

And, for now, that has to include Snowden, as well.

In a "who do you believe" game - I would have to say none of them, yet.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

I don't think there is enough recognition of this young man's sacrifice for the good of the Nation. Like an infantryman who is charged with carrying out orders which put him in harm's way, this fellow has gone into the breach with eyes wide open. That deserves some credit.

centralcal

Shoot, jimmyk - your link didn't work for me :(

4Jack is Back!2

jimmyk,

The problem with Blair's law is that in fact there are complementing positions at times.

OWS is very complementary of Paulian philosophy on a number of issues. Rage against the machine can be ignited right or left. Its were ends meet and when you think about it OWS and Paulian libertarianism meets pretty close to the apex of paranoia.

Clarice

Not tome, Corn..there is a whistleblower statute that protects whistleblowers but it doesn't contemplate they whistleblow to Greenwald at the Guardian.

Jane -

I tuned into Fox at 4:00PM and it was the top story Daddy.

Jane -

Why would Snowden set himself up for such a fall?

Ignatz

Dueling jerks like Greenwald and CJ will, let's hope, keep the story centered on the story rather than any unsavory personalities orbiting it.

Also, color me skeptical that an effective way to get the heat off is adding another highly questionable and invasive behavior by Barry's regime onto the already accumulating and teetering scandals and problems they're holding up; fuel to the fire is more like it, IMO.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

"but it doesn't contemplate they whistleblow to Greenwald at the Guardian."

Legal channels for WB have been outed for what they are--scapegoating, delays and downright evasive.

narciso

Well my surmise about Gellman, and Greenwald, seemed to make sense, the Special Forces 'they only want to kill Arabs' is reminiscent of Daniel
Sheehan, f the Christic Institute and there's some Ellsberg, Of course his work in Geneva, where the Libyan nuke program had been unraveled some years before, is probably spinned as well.

Clarice

The House committee chairs are all Republican//He could have knocked on their doors.

How much did Snowden knw? How did he rise so fast so far without a high school diploma. what's his link to the clown Greenwald? Why, if the story was so hot,has Greenwald obviously exaggerated it, and why run off to HK, claiming ridiculously the press is freer there?

jimmyk

Sorry cc, I'm having a bit of trouble with links today. But Blair's Law is coined by Time Blair, and it is "the ongoing process by which the world's multiple idiocies are becoming one giant, useless force."

jimmyk

er, Tim Blair.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

" keep the story centered on the story rather than any unsavory personalities orbiting it."

I agree. This is a collective 'sin' and we all must bear some of the responsibility for the behavior of government. The blame cannot be placed at the feet of a few. The 'many' are complicit.

AliceH

Well. Let's just think about this "nothing to see here, folks" argument. If it's a given that this is both 1) completely legal and 2) truly not pulling domestic-only data and 3) not being pulled directly and dynamically in ongoing manner but only by request with proper approved subpoena/warrant and 4) is old news that has been reported plenty of times in the past, then ... well. There's nothing leaked, right? Nothing the DoJ has any reason to investigate, nothing the NSA or Whitehouse needs to worry is compromising its ability to "protect America". There will not be any efforts expended on searching for and plugging leaks at all, because there wasn't anything leaked.

Right?

rse

Clarice-18 months at a big law firm as you know usually translates to a mistake hire. Sloppy or arrogant or both is usually what creates that time period. First Annual review gets told to find something else before long.

pagar

"But no war, no threat, no nothing justifies the National Security Agency obtaining a direct pipeline to the Skype chats of every American. What possible justification is there for the government watching granddad talk to his grandkids in real time back in Laurel, Maryland?

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/06/07/your-computer-is-bugging-your-house/

But:"Anti-terrorism authorities never interviewed 26-year-old Tsarnaev about his visit to the region, which is home to organized extremist Islamist militias who have committed numerous terrorist attacks against Russian authorities and moderate Sufi Muslims.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313061/Boston-bombings-FBI-didnt-know-Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-trip-Russia-misspelled.html

I'd be welling to bet they won't miss spell any Christian names.


daddy

Uh Oh!

Narciso, bgates, JiB: Gallinippers Overrun Florida!

Extraneus

Can this story be used to beat Obama about the head and shoulders? That's all I want to know.

If I thought it could backfire, I'd be more circumspect, but I don't see how it can. The details of these programs are secret and complicated enough that most people who hear "They're reading our credit card bills! Listening to our phone calls!" aren't about to parse the fine points of FISA warrants. Besides, "They lie on warrants in order to read people's emails!"

Jane -

THe WH Insiders agree with me. They think Obama is in the beginning of a huge fall, and they also think we may be on the brink of the biggest anti-government movement in history.

narciso

So, he was a 'Green Badger' (BW Hamilton) who had extraordinary access to training manuals, what else did he know, Hong Kong suggests he is Chinese Security affiliated no?

rse

Jane-good.

And can we ditch the phrase "public servant" from now on with respect to politicians or public employees?

Ignatz

"--THe WH Insiders agree with me.--"

That's usually a cue to reevaluate your position. Perhaps they'll accidentally get one right for once.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

What is a moderate 'Sufi' Pagar?

I thought they were mystics.

Ignatz

"--Hong Kong suggests he is Chinese Security affiliated no?--"

Yeah, that's fairly peculiar, especially considering his self appointed martyr stance.

Jim Miller

This may not mean anything -- but I am struck by Snowden's current location, Hong Kong. Why that's just next to, and now a part of, . . .

To me, that's like finding a big time drug dealer in, for instance, El Paso.

Those locations may not mean anything, but I sure would like to see some bright investigators check out any possible connections.

And it is, to say the least, convenient for a certain large Asian country to have this come out now, just when complaints about their cyber thefts are mounting, again.

For the record: I consider those cyber thefts a far more serious problem than this NSA program -- even assuming the worst about the program.

I would like to think that Ron and Rand agree with me on that, but I can't say for sure that they do.

(Incidentally, assuming Greenwald can spell correctly, it's Snowden, not Snowdon.)

daddy

Rand Paul seizes the High Ground:

Rand Paul On NSA Spying: "I'm Going To Challenge This At The Supreme Court"

"I'm going to be asking all the internet providers and all of the phone companies: ask your customers to join me in a class action lawsuit," Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) told host Chris Wallace. "If we get ten million Americans saying we don't want our phone records looked at, then maybe someone will wake up and something will change in Washington."

I think he played this card before the Snowdon revelation, but I think he is well placed to benefit from this since he is asking for a resolution of the case.

Assuming it does get to the Supreme's, the ball is then in their court:

If they say Unconstitutional, Rand wins his point.

If they say Constitutional, it becomes a Campaign issue for him amongst the Libertarian/Youth wing, as he champions them by demanding changes in the Law to limit it.

If the Supreme's punt, then I think it works to his advantage also, as he can then point to the Courts as being incapable themselves in rendering a clearcut, unambiguous decision as to whether this NSA/PRISM thing is Constitutional or not, which is the problem in the first place.

So far, I see no downside for Rand Paul on this issue, and I don't think there will be one unless some Terror attack occurs stateside that could be unambiguously pointed to as having been preventable via NSA/PRISM metadata.

Elliott

Edward Snowden: Red Hood over Laptop.

"On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since."

Why didn't he head straight for whatever country has already granted Assange asylum? Why not Iceland, his stated land of choice? Too great a chance of extradition from either? Presumably he is aware that henceforth his Hong Kong hostelry might as well be called the Hotel California.

Of course, were one aiming for a more cinematic denouement, would Mr. Snowden not at this very moment be seated on a flight making final preparations for landing at Reykjavik? Would not there be cameras in tow to capture the dramatic moments of his arrival? One does observe that the Wikileaks filmmaker has a byline on the latest Guardian story.

Jim Miller

I see that narciso and I have similar suspicions about Snowden's current location. (I hadn't read his comment before I posted mine.)

narciso

Well there is a certain commonality of interests, as with RT, Volodya's wurlitzer, being big promoters of Assuange, who ended up in Ecuador, another velvet glove regime.

centralcal

Scott Johnson at Powerline, writing about the Snowden Job:

Read the whole thing and render your own judgment. Snowden seems to me a true believer of doubtful maturity sunk in his own weird grandiosity. Greenwald of course celebrates Snowden as a “whisteblower.” That is a conclusion that begs the question, but I got off the train long before reaching this statement of reassurance, provided to Greenwald from the refuge of a hotel room in Hong Kong:

“I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest,” he said. “There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn’t turn over, because harming people isn’t my goal. Transparency is.”

As for transparency, I think I can see right through him.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

"Why didn't he head straight for whatever country has already granted Assange asylum?"

Ecuador? They have their hands full with Assange.

It would be strange for him to relocate to Iceland now. That should have been his first choice. They've been thumbing their noses at the Globalists for some time now.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

"Read the whole thing and render your own judgment. Snowden seems to me a true believer of doubtful maturity sunk in his own weird grandiosity. Greenwald of course celebrates Snowden as a “whisteblower.”"

This is a mirror-image of Obotism. Don't you find it eerie there is some connectivity on this issue.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

Rand Paul is an opportunist, that's all.

narciso

May 20th, that was the day, the Post published the details of the '09 China hack, interesting that is the day he flies to Hong Kong? It's like T-Dawg flying back after the Russians 'clipped'
Pletnikov, coincidence.

pagar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/subdivisions/sufism_1.shtml

Hope this answers the Sufi question.

Jane -

Washngton Insiders, not WH Insiders, and since they are pollsters they often get it right Iggy.

I really don't care if Greenwald is exaggerating or Snowden is immature. What I care about is that the left thinks Snowden is cooler than Obama and treats him accordingly. Independents have already fled based on the IRS so I'm loving the trend.

daddy

Why Hong Kong?

Just to give him a potential benefit of the doubt, at age 26 he may not have quite the window on where to go in the world to hang out safely as an older version of himself might. As 26 year olds how many of us knew where to go for potential political asylum? I wouldn't have known then, and basically I still don't.

Perhaps Hong Kong because it is English speaking, apparently semi-autonomous, and a cool place to live. Maybe he had been there before. Plus easy to get to from Hawaii.

Probably as good if not better than anywhere else on the Pacific rim.

Will be interesting to see how this develops. I believe in Hong Kong you have to leave every 6 months max to get your Visa renewed if not a resident. Also worth knowing what he put down on his Visa request for permission to go to Hong Kong---did he lie about his intentions, as may now seem evident? If so, what ramifications from that by the Chinese authorities? I have only had one incident of problems with the Hong Kong Customs guys and I did not enjoy being in that position.

Janet  --- -... .- .. .- ... ..- -.-. -.- ...

I don't want Benghazi and the IRS/EPA/Democrat/leftist organizations stories to die.

I want mass firings & jail time....

Who has gone to jail? What have the consequences been? No more line dancing parties??? Hillary Clinton should have been fired, not finish out her appointment & step down. That is an outrage.

WE should have massive disobedience of all laws if illegals & government politicians & employees can break our laws.

Elliott

The Guardian interview now having been perused, the method by which Mr. Snowden obtained the visa generally required of US nationals for entrance into Hong Kong remains unknown.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

Narciso;

So, a triple-agent? Silly-putty doesn't stretch as much.

LIV Jones

This stuff isn't news. I've known the government could do this stuff for years. I saw it on 24.

Corn-fed conservative (southern strategy version)

another look at sufis..

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/iranian-sufis-defy-tehran-dictatorship_704811.html

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